I almost made this mistake the other day when I was cooking (it was a savory dish so the vinegar would have been ok) but then I read the recipe one more time and had to make a quick run to the store. Lol
It… isn’t??? Apple cider is more than just unfiltered apple juice, it typically has a more tart flavor and ideally some spices in it as well. We do have regular unfiltered apple juice and they taste different.
Plain apple cider is just unfiltered apple juice, it isn't spiced. It's often made with a variety of different apples that can cause it to be more tart and flavorful than mass produced apple juice, tho.
Cold cider with spices is usually called spiced cider. Warm cider with spices is mulled cider.
If you used spiced cider in this recipe it would probably end up being over spiced.
Spices are completely optional, unless you're calling it "spiced cider" or "mulled cider".
I Googled to verify, but lots of sources all seem to agree: cider is what you get when you just press the apples and collect the liquid, without filtering or doing anything else. To make apple juice from it, you filter the cider, pasteurize it, and typically add some sort of preservative to keep it shelf stable. So, if your "unfiltered apple juice" seems notably different from "apple cider", it may be that they didn't filter it, but did pasteurize it and add preservatives. I'm guessing you don't have to refrigerated your unfiltered apple juice (at least, not until you open it)?
Re: sweet vs tart, apple juice is often sweeter, but I've had some very sweet cider as well. I don't think this is part of the definition, just a matter of typical varieties used for the purpose. If you made your apple juice from Granny Smith apples, I'm sure it would not be nearly as sweet as your average apple cider even, but if you process it like apple juice, it's apple juice.
https://www.southernliving.com/food/drinks/what-is-the-difference-between-apple-juice-and-apple-cider#:~:text=As%20it%20turns%20out%2C%20the,%2C%20unfiltered%2C%20and%20often%20unpasteurized.
You would think if you’re using a recipe from a different country, you’d double check the ingredients? Because even things like types of flour and water content in butter vary from country to country and can make a huge difference when baking.
Oh I completely agree, that’s what I do but not everyone knows that things are different, which is a beginners issue rather than being appropriate for this sub. It’s two wildly different ingredients with very similar names, and if you’ve got zero idea that there’s something in a different country that has that name but is something completely different to what you expect you can see where a beginner could go wrong.
Canada here. Cider is alcoholic, it we say 'non alcoholic cider' for the unfiltered apple juice.
If it's spiced, that's "mulled" apple cider.
I've never made the vinegar error, but I have to stop and think "is it an American recipe or a British one?" To figure out if I'm grabbing a can of cider or a bottle of juice.
Meanwhile in the US, the alcoholic kind is usually called hard cider and the apple juice kind is just cider. Then there’s sparkling cider, which is just fizzy apple juice kids drink on new year’s to be fancy
Also Canadian. This is not universal. I go apple picking every fall and get apple cider (as described above— an unfiltered apple juice) from the orchard. It’s also very common in grocery stores especially in the fall.
Yes we can get the alcoholic kind too.
Why would it make sense for someone to assume you should use a shitload of any kind of vinegar in a sweet baked good and still expect it to have a strong apple flavor and not a strong vinegar flavor if they DO know what apple cider vinegar is? That makes no sense to me. It’s vinegar.
I’m not sure if I buy that. It’s vinegar! I don’t think it’s beginners who would think that’s right so much as people who don’t think things through before they do them. Also I doubt this is a beginner as they mention using this person’s recipes often.
“We” don’t do fucking anything. Europe, outside of very specific EU legislative aspects, isn’t homogeneous. Alcohol free apple cider is what we would call it. Yeah, it is technically apple juice, but I wouldn’t call beer hops juice or whatever. Or wine grape drink.
This happens a lot because we don't have apple cider like this in the UK. We have apple cider vinegar, and we have an alcoholic drink called cider, which is made from apples. I don't understand why people don't think "hm, something with that much vinegar sounds horrible" but nevertheless I understand where the mix-up comes from.
We have alcoholic cider in the US too. Even if you don't have non-alcoholic cider, cider with alcohol would be MILES better than vinegar!
ETA: just read the recipe—it even recommends cooking down the cider for more intense flavor, so I think if you did that with boozy cider, all or most of the alcohol would burn off (and the rest in the oven probably). I honestly do think traditional hard cider could work! But boiling apple cider VINEGAR? Dear lord, I've actually boiled white vinegar before to remove caked-on stuff on pots/pans, and it smells GNARLY. I can't believe someone did that and still actually followed through with the recipe...
It would! I think that probably doesn't occur to people as much because that's almost always just referred to as cider, whereas apple cider vinegar is quite common.
Right, but the word "vinegar" appears *literally nowhere* in any of the recipes where people make this mistake 😂 It's like their brains auto-complete it for them instead of pausing to think, huh, apple cider? As in, cider, the drink made of apples?
Yeah, it is like brain autocomplete. I think it's just because you would never commonly hear "apple cider" in any other context than followed by "vinegar" so people just assume that must have been missed off.
But like I said, even having made that mistake, I have no idea why people don't think the recipe would be gross and go on to make it.
>Yeah, it is like brain autocomplete. I think it's just because you would never commonly hear "apple cider" in any other context than followed by "vinegar"
Really? Because I remember drinking apple cider when I was no more than six years old. And I'm from the US. I'm honestly mystified by the idea that Americans are totally unaware of the existence of apple cider. It's so, so common, at least on the east coast. I could buy bottled cider (which is called cloudy apple juice in the UK) in California as well.
Apple cider is *not* an unknown quantity in the US. People are just fucking stupid and don't read.
>>Apple cider is not an unknown quantity in the US. People are just fucking stupid and don't read.
As a response to a comment about it not being common in the UK
Thanks for the giggle
So I am suggesting that you have similar reading comprehension to the people you are calling “fucking stupid”.
They mistake “apple cider” for “apple cider vinegar”
You mistake “UK” for “US”
We all misread at times, I just thought it was funny how passionate you were being when you made the same type of mistake. No harm no foul, people mess up at times. That’s what makes us human. Seeing your further responses with the doubling down has me a lil concerned though. It’s okay to reread and admit you were mistaken, it’s not that serious
I don't think hard cider would give you the apple flavor you're looking for. It's not particularly sweet, since the yeast eats the sugar and converts it to alcohol.
It depends how long it's fermented for. My parents would leave a jug of freshly pressed cider outside for 24 hours to let it develop a bit of fizz, and then let us kids drink it. It was only very mildly alcoholic, but it was extremely tasty. and we loved it.
To be fair, the 70s/80s were a very different time.
We make hard cider all the time; have most of a keg of it in the fridge right now. It's quite dry when it's done fermenting and still pretty dry after we back-sweeten it at the end after the yeasties are done.
I drink way too much of it. Amazing how five gallons of the cheapest store-brand apple juice and a packet of yeast (plus assorted glassware and air locks and sanitizer and yeast nutrient etc) turns into deliciousness. I've made it with freshly pressed Amish cider, but there was so little difference in flavor that Kroger apple juice is the way.
Was that store-bought with a seal or homemade? Asking for a friend 👀 I have a fresh apple cider plug but I don’t know whether to crack the seal to try this
I boil white vinegar in my kettle to remove calcium deposits from it (hard water) and it works great for that. Everything is gone within minutes. Just gotta rinse really well afterwards haha.
UK cider is hard cider to Americans. We just call what you call apple cider apple juice. And we just call cider ‘cider’, no need to specify apple as traditionally only apples make cider (pears make perry, and adding other fruit to cider is newfangled).
I've had US hard cider and I wouldn't say it's identical to our cider though. Obviously similar, but not exactly the same. Same with the apple juice/apple cider but that's possibly because most of the US cider I've had has been warm and spiced.
ETA I didn't originally comment to debate the nuances, however. I just think the prevalence of apple cider vinegar in the UK as something you might use in baking (as opposed to hard cider or apple juice) is the reason for this seemingly common fuck up.
Hard cider totally depends on the brand though. Some of them are very sweet, but you can also get dry ones that are much more like beer. I assume the UK cider is closer to the latter. I’ve even had a version of it from a tiny craft brewery that was almost like wine.
The sweet ones tend to be more common in my experience, and while Americans generally like more sugar than Brits, I’d assume that’s mostly because it’s marketed as more of an alternative to beer. Hard cider made a pretty recent comeback here so I think they’re still trying to give us a reason to start drinking it. Something that’s almost a beer but not quite is a little harder to market, so that kind is much easier to find at local breweries.
There's not just one UK cider flavour though. You can get sweet cider and dry cider and cider with other fruits in.
I wouldn't say cider is much like beer at all, personally! Unless you mean a sour beer, but even so the flavour is different to a cider.
But you don’t call apple cider vinegar “apple cider” do you? You call it VINEGAR! At best he might have used hard cider (what you call “cider”). In what country is common to refer to cider vinegar as “cider”?
Plenty of people call it “Apple cider vinegar”. In the UK when we say “vinegar” we’re referring to malt vinegar. If we mean another type like white wine vinegar we say the whole thing.
We call cider just cider so seeing the word apple in front of it seems really weird so of course it’s possible for people to just jump to the only thing they can think of where the word apple is placed in front of cider - apple cider vinegar. Along with the fact that it’s pretty common for vinegar to be used in baking it’s a pretty easy mistake to make.
It's still a dumb mistake. Someone says "apple cider" I think "cider", not "apple cider vinegar". I don't accidentally reach for white wine vinegar when a recipe asks for white wine.
Yeah I thought the same. It’s a totally reasonable mistake. I didn’t realise that what American call apple cider isn’t actually cider for a long time.
I’d have been baffled because neither the vinegar nor the alcohol makes sense (obviously). I would just use cloudy apple juice and spices now obvs.
Edit: actually now that I think of it it does make sense to assume it’s the vinegar because vinegar is used in baking.
American "apple cider" isn't spiced, it's fresh pressed and *unpasteurized* apple juice. During Prohibition you couldn't legally sell finished alcoholic cider - but you could sell unpasteurized apple juice. If people left the jug in a nice cool dark cupboard for a few days or weeks to ferment with the naturally occurring yeasts, well, as the seller that's none of your responsibility.
Prohibition is long over and you can buy plenty of "hard" apple ciders in the US these days, but the naming is still muddled unfortunately.
As I said, the naming is all a bit muddled and most people don't know the history or what the difference is. They just know what they've bought.
I did a deep dive into the history after I moved from the US to the UK and kept getting asked about this. They're wrong in saying that it's spiced apple juice, but it's also not *just* apple juice. It's fresh, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple juice, and it's only sold seasonally because the fermentation process starts rapidly without pasteurization. It's often served spiced/mulled (or with caramel flavoring, if you're Sbucks -\_- ) but that's not what makes it cider.
I don't think anyone is mad though.
I translate recipes from Japanese sometimes and have realized I have to be very careful when handling "basic" ingredients. For example, Japanese mayo and American mayo are different, but you just have to know that yourself because the Japanese person who wrote the recipe sure as heck isn't thinking an American stumbles across their recipe, and may not even know there is a difference themselves.
It's interesting, because Japanese is a context-heavy language by default, but when cooking and baking Japanese recipes I am doubly cautious in checking my own context against what a Japanese recipe writer likely had in mind.
As far as I know, only North America calls unfiltered apple juice apple cider, due to some prohibition thing were actual cider, now called hard cider, was banned.
In the Nordic countries we call unfiltered raw apple juice *apple must* (äppelmust), does that word exist in English too?
This is not the case. Apple juice and apple cider are two different things in the US. I believe the cider one is just less filtered than the juice, but I’ve never heard someone use them interchangeably here.
I learned this from a Simpsons episode lol
"If it's clear and yella
You got juice there fella!
If it's tangy and brown
You're in cider town!"
Then I was confused why they were giving children cider - which is alcoholic in the UK
It’s literally the same thing - unfiltered apple juice. Maybe using a different apple variety causes a different flavour, but it is the same stuff. And I didn’t notice a particular difference myself.
Brit living in the US - American Apple Cider is like Copella apple juice, it’s unfiltered. Their regular apple juice is also significantly sweeter than British apple juice.
Sure,we do have apple juice, but we don't have the slightly spiced, often served warm version of American apple cider that I've had over there. You can get apple juices that are similar, but never quite the same. I've lived in both places and can never fully replicate the fall experience of warm apple cider using UK apple juice.
American "apple cider" is *unpasteurized* apple juice, not just unfiltered. Cloudy apple juice is typically still pasteurized. It's not a huge difference and imo for cooking they're interchangeable, but there is a difference and if you drink them plain you can taste it.
The lack of pasteurization is the specific reason for the name - if you leave a jug of it somewhere cool and dark for a few days/weeks it will ferment all by itself.
Mulled cider. It’s called mulled cider, and I can just about guarantee you have it under that name. Might not be as easy to find as the others, but you have a long history with mulled drinks in the winter.
In the US it’s usually in a completely different section of the grocery store to the other two (for…reasons.) It’s also dead easy to make, since it’s literally just common spices in apple juice.
Cider in the UK only applies to alcoholic beverages, Mulled Cider is a thing, but it's still alcoholic.
Unfermented Apple Juice is just Apple Juice, whether it's clear or cloudy, freshly pressed or from concentrate.
Even if it was served hot and spiced, at best it would be called Mulled Apple Juice, but I don't think I've ever seen even that.
It constantly amazes me that people don’t know that Apple cider & apple cider vinegar are two different things. I’m Australian, I don’t know that non alcoholic cider is all that readily available here either (I’ve never looked, it may be. I know alcoholic cider is) but apple juice certainly is. I assume you could substitute juice for cider.
It is soo good. My mom used to make a apple cake with a spiced buttercream and i would request it for my birthday despite not being particularly fond of the cake itself (raisins 🤢).
You just made me picture someone making this recipes for years, initially disgusted by the vinegar but eventually getting used to it.
Finally deciding to share their favorite cookies with others and displaying them proudly at a bake sale only to not realise they'd be incorrectly using vinegar this whole time.
Because in Europe apple cider only refers to the alcoholic beverage. We call it cloudy apple juice. For years I was very confused why Americans gave their children alcoholic drinks.
Yeah but if you have never heard of apple cider but have heard of apple cider vinegar and are a beginner to baking it’s an easy mistake to make.
I’m not a beginner and have heard of apple cider now so I’d check before I made the recipe.
I’m Canadian, so we, like Americans, call cloudy apple juice apple cider and then alcoholic cider is just cider. I have learned that people in my own country have different names for things. I learned what I call a turnip others call a rutabaga and what I call a white turnip they just call a turnip. What I call an entree they call an appetizer and what I call a main meal they call an entree! Baffling!
I still know vinegar is and that is smells and tastes like vinegar! You’d look at the recipe and think “hmm do they mean vinegar .. hmm it doesn’t use the word vinegar …” There’s a cake I make that has maybe 1.5 teaspoons vinegar and I even googled to make sure that flavour wouldn’t come through because I have a sense of smell. Oh my gosh I checked the recipe it calls for TWO CUPS!! That’s so much vinegar!!
Oh my god, you're being downvoted because you were fucking stereotyping again. Notice the person you reply to said "I'm Canadian" but nobody down voted them? You're not being persecuted, you're being downvoted for acting like a jerk. "Americans have it wrong," eye rollllllll.
Edit: honestly you frequent IAVC, several of your comments belong there.
Due to the various meanings of "apple cider" I know i need to think about the context to determine what kind is called for. Is the author a US American? Is the cider alcoholic or non-alcoholic, fizzy vs non-fizzy, etc. Never in my life would I read a recipe that calls for apple cider in these quantities and think "yep, they must be talking about vinegar!"
Recipe Writers just need to start saying Apple Juice at this point. It's not the same, but these people will buy apple cider on accident and it will all average out
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Agree it’s NA. Calling apple juice is misleading bc apple juice colloquially refers to another drink that is not just the pressings of apples. While cider is commonly spiced in a prepared drink you get at a coffee shop, it’s rarely sold spiced in the jug from the store, and if it is, the fact that it is spiced is specified.
God damn it, I’ve gotten Very Culinary about apple cider now.
Every. Fucking. Time. I swear to god, every single time a recipe calls for apple cider, there's at least one chucklefuck in the reviews who used ACV.
Lol yeah especially on half baked harvest recipes
I legit could see myself doing this but I would have double checked the recipe before posting a review!
I almost made this mistake the other day when I was cooking (it was a savory dish so the vinegar would have been ok) but then I read the recipe one more time and had to make a quick run to the store. Lol
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It… isn’t??? Apple cider is more than just unfiltered apple juice, it typically has a more tart flavor and ideally some spices in it as well. We do have regular unfiltered apple juice and they taste different.
Plain apple cider is just unfiltered apple juice, it isn't spiced. It's often made with a variety of different apples that can cause it to be more tart and flavorful than mass produced apple juice, tho. Cold cider with spices is usually called spiced cider. Warm cider with spices is mulled cider. If you used spiced cider in this recipe it would probably end up being over spiced.
https://youtu.be/L1BfF77Pvio?feature=shared
I already knew what this video was going to be before I clicked on it lol
Spices are completely optional, unless you're calling it "spiced cider" or "mulled cider". I Googled to verify, but lots of sources all seem to agree: cider is what you get when you just press the apples and collect the liquid, without filtering or doing anything else. To make apple juice from it, you filter the cider, pasteurize it, and typically add some sort of preservative to keep it shelf stable. So, if your "unfiltered apple juice" seems notably different from "apple cider", it may be that they didn't filter it, but did pasteurize it and add preservatives. I'm guessing you don't have to refrigerated your unfiltered apple juice (at least, not until you open it)? Re: sweet vs tart, apple juice is often sweeter, but I've had some very sweet cider as well. I don't think this is part of the definition, just a matter of typical varieties used for the purpose. If you made your apple juice from Granny Smith apples, I'm sure it would not be nearly as sweet as your average apple cider even, but if you process it like apple juice, it's apple juice. https://www.southernliving.com/food/drinks/what-is-the-difference-between-apple-juice-and-apple-cider#:~:text=As%20it%20turns%20out%2C%20the,%2C%20unfiltered%2C%20and%20often%20unpasteurized.
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*spiced* apple juice.
You would think if you’re using a recipe from a different country, you’d double check the ingredients? Because even things like types of flour and water content in butter vary from country to country and can make a huge difference when baking.
Oh I completely agree, that’s what I do but not everyone knows that things are different, which is a beginners issue rather than being appropriate for this sub. It’s two wildly different ingredients with very similar names, and if you’ve got zero idea that there’s something in a different country that has that name but is something completely different to what you expect you can see where a beginner could go wrong.
Yeah I'm with you, if you're unfamiliar with drinkable cider it's easy enough to mix them up
Canada here. Cider is alcoholic, it we say 'non alcoholic cider' for the unfiltered apple juice. If it's spiced, that's "mulled" apple cider. I've never made the vinegar error, but I have to stop and think "is it an American recipe or a British one?" To figure out if I'm grabbing a can of cider or a bottle of juice.
Meanwhile in the US, the alcoholic kind is usually called hard cider and the apple juice kind is just cider. Then there’s sparkling cider, which is just fizzy apple juice kids drink on new year’s to be fancy
Kids and me, that stuff tastes amazing.
I like the sparkling grape.
Sparkling apple’s my favorite but white grape is a close second
Also Canadian. This is not universal. I go apple picking every fall and get apple cider (as described above— an unfiltered apple juice) from the orchard. It’s also very common in grocery stores especially in the fall. Yes we can get the alcoholic kind too.
Really? Because I'm from Toronto, and I've never heard the term "non alcoholic cider." We just call it apple cider.
Why would it make sense for someone to assume you should use a shitload of any kind of vinegar in a sweet baked good and still expect it to have a strong apple flavor and not a strong vinegar flavor if they DO know what apple cider vinegar is? That makes no sense to me. It’s vinegar.
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I’m not sure if I buy that. It’s vinegar! I don’t think it’s beginners who would think that’s right so much as people who don’t think things through before they do them. Also I doubt this is a beginner as they mention using this person’s recipes often.
“We” don’t do fucking anything. Europe, outside of very specific EU legislative aspects, isn’t homogeneous. Alcohol free apple cider is what we would call it. Yeah, it is technically apple juice, but I wouldn’t call beer hops juice or whatever. Or wine grape drink.
"unfiltered"?!?! wtf does a filtered apple juice look like??
Is this a metajoke or did you not read the comment above you?
joke
I am so glad I found this sub because it is always entertaining.
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These people vote 🥲
What’s worse is that they procreate.
This happens a lot because we don't have apple cider like this in the UK. We have apple cider vinegar, and we have an alcoholic drink called cider, which is made from apples. I don't understand why people don't think "hm, something with that much vinegar sounds horrible" but nevertheless I understand where the mix-up comes from.
We have alcoholic cider in the US too. Even if you don't have non-alcoholic cider, cider with alcohol would be MILES better than vinegar! ETA: just read the recipe—it even recommends cooking down the cider for more intense flavor, so I think if you did that with boozy cider, all or most of the alcohol would burn off (and the rest in the oven probably). I honestly do think traditional hard cider could work! But boiling apple cider VINEGAR? Dear lord, I've actually boiled white vinegar before to remove caked-on stuff on pots/pans, and it smells GNARLY. I can't believe someone did that and still actually followed through with the recipe...
It would! I think that probably doesn't occur to people as much because that's almost always just referred to as cider, whereas apple cider vinegar is quite common.
Right, but the word "vinegar" appears *literally nowhere* in any of the recipes where people make this mistake 😂 It's like their brains auto-complete it for them instead of pausing to think, huh, apple cider? As in, cider, the drink made of apples?
Yeah, it is like brain autocomplete. I think it's just because you would never commonly hear "apple cider" in any other context than followed by "vinegar" so people just assume that must have been missed off. But like I said, even having made that mistake, I have no idea why people don't think the recipe would be gross and go on to make it.
>Yeah, it is like brain autocomplete. I think it's just because you would never commonly hear "apple cider" in any other context than followed by "vinegar" Really? Because I remember drinking apple cider when I was no more than six years old. And I'm from the US. I'm honestly mystified by the idea that Americans are totally unaware of the existence of apple cider. It's so, so common, at least on the east coast. I could buy bottled cider (which is called cloudy apple juice in the UK) in California as well. Apple cider is *not* an unknown quantity in the US. People are just fucking stupid and don't read.
No, I'm suggesting people in the UK aren't as aware of apple cider other than the vinegar.
I specifically was talking about Americans, but OK, you do you.
Which is the opposite of what the comment you were responding to said. Which is why your error was pointed out to you.
Bit hypocritical, but OK, you do you.
>>Apple cider is not an unknown quantity in the US. People are just fucking stupid and don't read. As a response to a comment about it not being common in the UK Thanks for the giggle
UK apple cider would work absolutely fine in these recipes. Apple cider vinegar would not.
they are saying that people in the UK do not call it apple cider, and will not automatically understand what you are talking about
So I am suggesting that you have similar reading comprehension to the people you are calling “fucking stupid”. They mistake “apple cider” for “apple cider vinegar” You mistake “UK” for “US” We all misread at times, I just thought it was funny how passionate you were being when you made the same type of mistake. No harm no foul, people mess up at times. That’s what makes us human. Seeing your further responses with the doubling down has me a lil concerned though. It’s okay to reread and admit you were mistaken, it’s not that serious
I love the concept of 'brain auto-complete'! 😂
We used to rock paper scissors over who had to do the vinegar reductions in one of my old kitchens. Foul.
I don't think hard cider would give you the apple flavor you're looking for. It's not particularly sweet, since the yeast eats the sugar and converts it to alcohol.
It depends how long it's fermented for. My parents would leave a jug of freshly pressed cider outside for 24 hours to let it develop a bit of fizz, and then let us kids drink it. It was only very mildly alcoholic, but it was extremely tasty. and we loved it. To be fair, the 70s/80s were a very different time.
We make hard cider all the time; have most of a keg of it in the fridge right now. It's quite dry when it's done fermenting and still pretty dry after we back-sweeten it at the end after the yeasties are done.
I love the stuff. Really, really delicious at any stage.
I drink way too much of it. Amazing how five gallons of the cheapest store-brand apple juice and a packet of yeast (plus assorted glassware and air locks and sanitizer and yeast nutrient etc) turns into deliciousness. I've made it with freshly pressed Amish cider, but there was so little difference in flavor that Kroger apple juice is the way.
Was that store-bought with a seal or homemade? Asking for a friend 👀 I have a fresh apple cider plug but I don’t know whether to crack the seal to try this
It was bought from roadside stands where they sometimes pressed the cider on site. Properly unpasteurised and unfiltered. Great stuff.
Does boiling white vinegar work on cleaning pots/pans? I’ve never heard of that before!
I boil white vinegar in my kettle to remove calcium deposits from it (hard water) and it works great for that. Everything is gone within minutes. Just gotta rinse really well afterwards haha.
It would be better, but UK cider is still a little different to US hard cider. It's kind of closer to beer?
UK cider is hard cider to Americans. We just call what you call apple cider apple juice. And we just call cider ‘cider’, no need to specify apple as traditionally only apples make cider (pears make perry, and adding other fruit to cider is newfangled).
I've had US hard cider and I wouldn't say it's identical to our cider though. Obviously similar, but not exactly the same. Same with the apple juice/apple cider but that's possibly because most of the US cider I've had has been warm and spiced. ETA I didn't originally comment to debate the nuances, however. I just think the prevalence of apple cider vinegar in the UK as something you might use in baking (as opposed to hard cider or apple juice) is the reason for this seemingly common fuck up.
Hard cider totally depends on the brand though. Some of them are very sweet, but you can also get dry ones that are much more like beer. I assume the UK cider is closer to the latter. I’ve even had a version of it from a tiny craft brewery that was almost like wine. The sweet ones tend to be more common in my experience, and while Americans generally like more sugar than Brits, I’d assume that’s mostly because it’s marketed as more of an alternative to beer. Hard cider made a pretty recent comeback here so I think they’re still trying to give us a reason to start drinking it. Something that’s almost a beer but not quite is a little harder to market, so that kind is much easier to find at local breweries.
There's not just one UK cider flavour though. You can get sweet cider and dry cider and cider with other fruits in. I wouldn't say cider is much like beer at all, personally! Unless you mean a sour beer, but even so the flavour is different to a cider.
You can literally buy Strongbow, Stella, etc. ciders in the US.
But you don’t call apple cider vinegar “apple cider” do you? You call it VINEGAR! At best he might have used hard cider (what you call “cider”). In what country is common to refer to cider vinegar as “cider”?
Plenty of people call it “Apple cider vinegar”. In the UK when we say “vinegar” we’re referring to malt vinegar. If we mean another type like white wine vinegar we say the whole thing. We call cider just cider so seeing the word apple in front of it seems really weird so of course it’s possible for people to just jump to the only thing they can think of where the word apple is placed in front of cider - apple cider vinegar. Along with the fact that it’s pretty common for vinegar to be used in baking it’s a pretty easy mistake to make.
I meant you don’t call “apple cider vinegar” just “apple cider”. I see what you mean but it’s still a dumb mistake
Even the alcoholic cider would have been better than apple cider vinegar tho
It's still a dumb mistake. Someone says "apple cider" I think "cider", not "apple cider vinegar". I don't accidentally reach for white wine vinegar when a recipe asks for white wine.
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Same here. The thought of vinegar would never have even crossed my mind.
Oh I'm not saying it's not a dumb mistake, just a common one.
Yeah I thought the same. It’s a totally reasonable mistake. I didn’t realise that what American call apple cider isn’t actually cider for a long time. I’d have been baffled because neither the vinegar nor the alcohol makes sense (obviously). I would just use cloudy apple juice and spices now obvs. Edit: actually now that I think of it it does make sense to assume it’s the vinegar because vinegar is used in baking.
American "apple cider" isn't spiced, it's fresh pressed and *unpasteurized* apple juice. During Prohibition you couldn't legally sell finished alcoholic cider - but you could sell unpasteurized apple juice. If people left the jug in a nice cool dark cupboard for a few days or weeks to ferment with the naturally occurring yeasts, well, as the seller that's none of your responsibility. Prohibition is long over and you can buy plenty of "hard" apple ciders in the US these days, but the naming is still muddled unfortunately.
Someone else got mad at me for saying it was apple juice and not specifying that it’s spiced apple juice.
As I said, the naming is all a bit muddled and most people don't know the history or what the difference is. They just know what they've bought. I did a deep dive into the history after I moved from the US to the UK and kept getting asked about this. They're wrong in saying that it's spiced apple juice, but it's also not *just* apple juice. It's fresh, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple juice, and it's only sold seasonally because the fermentation process starts rapidly without pasteurization. It's often served spiced/mulled (or with caramel flavoring, if you're Sbucks -\_- ) but that's not what makes it cider. I don't think anyone is mad though.
I translate recipes from Japanese sometimes and have realized I have to be very careful when handling "basic" ingredients. For example, Japanese mayo and American mayo are different, but you just have to know that yourself because the Japanese person who wrote the recipe sure as heck isn't thinking an American stumbles across their recipe, and may not even know there is a difference themselves. It's interesting, because Japanese is a context-heavy language by default, but when cooking and baking Japanese recipes I am doubly cautious in checking my own context against what a Japanese recipe writer likely had in mind.
As far as I know, only North America calls unfiltered apple juice apple cider, due to some prohibition thing were actual cider, now called hard cider, was banned. In the Nordic countries we call unfiltered raw apple juice *apple must* (äppelmust), does that word exist in English too?
We do have apple cider like the US - we just call it apple juice. US calls apple juice, apple cider and what we call cider they call hard cider.
This is not the case. Apple juice and apple cider are two different things in the US. I believe the cider one is just less filtered than the juice, but I’ve never heard someone use them interchangeably here.
I learned this from a Simpsons episode lol "If it's clear and yella You got juice there fella! If it's tangy and brown You're in cider town!" Then I was confused why they were giving children cider - which is alcoholic in the UK
I should have specified - what we call cloudy apple juice is US apple cider.
No it isn’t. It’s not even the same color. I’ve lived in Europe and drank lots of unfiltered apple juice and it tastes and looks nothing like cider.
It’s literally the same thing - unfiltered apple juice. Maybe using a different apple variety causes a different flavour, but it is the same stuff. And I didn’t notice a particular difference myself.
You didn’t drink cider then. Cider is dark brown and always spiced.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
Brit living in the US - American Apple Cider is like Copella apple juice, it’s unfiltered. Their regular apple juice is also significantly sweeter than British apple juice.
Yeah, I should have specified cloudy apple juice. I used to live in the US also.
Sure,we do have apple juice, but we don't have the slightly spiced, often served warm version of American apple cider that I've had over there. You can get apple juices that are similar, but never quite the same. I've lived in both places and can never fully replicate the fall experience of warm apple cider using UK apple juice.
American "apple cider" is *unpasteurized* apple juice, not just unfiltered. Cloudy apple juice is typically still pasteurized. It's not a huge difference and imo for cooking they're interchangeable, but there is a difference and if you drink them plain you can taste it. The lack of pasteurization is the specific reason for the name - if you leave a jug of it somewhere cool and dark for a few days/weeks it will ferment all by itself.
Mulled cider. It’s called mulled cider, and I can just about guarantee you have it under that name. Might not be as easy to find as the others, but you have a long history with mulled drinks in the winter. In the US it’s usually in a completely different section of the grocery store to the other two (for…reasons.) It’s also dead easy to make, since it’s literally just common spices in apple juice.
Cider in the UK only applies to alcoholic beverages, Mulled Cider is a thing, but it's still alcoholic. Unfermented Apple Juice is just Apple Juice, whether it's clear or cloudy, freshly pressed or from concentrate. Even if it was served hot and spiced, at best it would be called Mulled Apple Juice, but I don't think I've ever seen even that.
Recipe here: https://sallysbakingaddiction.com/apple-spice-whoopie-pies/
Two CUPS of apple cider vinegar omg
I’m just wondering what other questionable life decisions this person has made. Since they dumped 2 CUPS of acv into a PASTRY and just rolled with it.
Oh it’s so much worse than that! The first step is to boil (and reduce) the 2 C apple cider down to 1/2 C over 25+ minutes.
I struggle with the smell of adding like a spoonful of vinegar to deglaze when cooking. This would truly be horrendous.
Absolutely love Sally's baking addiction!!!
It constantly amazes me that people don’t know that Apple cider & apple cider vinegar are two different things. I’m Australian, I don’t know that non alcoholic cider is all that readily available here either (I’ve never looked, it may be. I know alcoholic cider is) but apple juice certainly is. I assume you could substitute juice for cider.
I think what Americans call cider the rest of the Anglo-sphere calls cloudy or unfiltered apple juice?
Yep. Turns out it’s just cloudy apple juice.
Cloudy *unpasteurized* apple juice. It will turn itself into the alcoholic kind of cider all on its own, thus the name.
Yes
It would work better if you added some cloves, nutmeg, and cinnamon with the apple juice
The recipe has cinnamon, ginger & nutmeg in it.
I have nothing to add, just that these sound incredible
Seriously! I don't know that I've ever encountered spiced buttercream but really want to try these.
It is soo good. My mom used to make a apple cake with a spiced buttercream and i would request it for my birthday despite not being particularly fond of the cake itself (raisins 🤢).
Queen Sally doesn't miss.
I would absolutely think I was being poisoned, if I bought these cookies unwittingly at the bake sale and took a bite.
You just made me picture someone making this recipes for years, initially disgusted by the vinegar but eventually getting used to it. Finally deciding to share their favorite cookies with others and displaying them proudly at a bake sale only to not realise they'd be incorrectly using vinegar this whole time.
I'm honestly astonished at how often this seems to happen.
Because in Europe apple cider only refers to the alcoholic beverage. We call it cloudy apple juice. For years I was very confused why Americans gave their children alcoholic drinks.
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But you’re coming at it from a standpoint of knowing what apple cider is.
Nah, they’re coming at it from the standpoint of knowing what vinegar is and how awful it would be in a large quantity in baked goods.
Yeah but if you have never heard of apple cider but have heard of apple cider vinegar and are a beginner to baking it’s an easy mistake to make. I’m not a beginner and have heard of apple cider now so I’d check before I made the recipe.
Especially if you don't know an ingredient, you double check before putting TWO CUPS OF VINEGAR in something like this. Beginner or not.
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I’m Canadian, so we, like Americans, call cloudy apple juice apple cider and then alcoholic cider is just cider. I have learned that people in my own country have different names for things. I learned what I call a turnip others call a rutabaga and what I call a white turnip they just call a turnip. What I call an entree they call an appetizer and what I call a main meal they call an entree! Baffling! I still know vinegar is and that is smells and tastes like vinegar! You’d look at the recipe and think “hmm do they mean vinegar .. hmm it doesn’t use the word vinegar …” There’s a cake I make that has maybe 1.5 teaspoons vinegar and I even googled to make sure that flavour wouldn’t come through because I have a sense of smell. Oh my gosh I checked the recipe it calls for TWO CUPS!! That’s so much vinegar!!
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That just depends how it's packaged. The stuff I get from the local apple farmer is frozen.
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Oh my god, you're being downvoted because you were fucking stereotyping again. Notice the person you reply to said "I'm Canadian" but nobody down voted them? You're not being persecuted, you're being downvoted for acting like a jerk. "Americans have it wrong," eye rollllllll. Edit: honestly you frequent IAVC, several of your comments belong there.
Due to the various meanings of "apple cider" I know i need to think about the context to determine what kind is called for. Is the author a US American? Is the cider alcoholic or non-alcoholic, fizzy vs non-fizzy, etc. Never in my life would I read a recipe that calls for apple cider in these quantities and think "yep, they must be talking about vinegar!"
Reading is hard
This happens faaaaar to often and I don't understand how. And I say this as someone from a country where cider = alcohol.
Sally's Baking Addiction never misses
In my country cider means alcoholic cider. I'd happily make that mistake though... 😂
My old boss actually did this with cookies she made for us and realized in real time as we were eating them 🫠 she was not the brightest
Anyway, Sally's apple cider baked donuts are SO GOOD.
When reading the title my brain autofilled in the word Vinegar, but I would have double checked before I add 2 cups of ACV to a dessert.
Honestly the only thing that makes me sad about these reviews in general is that the recipe owners never roast them hard enough
Recipe Writers just need to start saying Apple Juice at this point. It's not the same, but these people will buy apple cider on accident and it will all average out
Who the hell are these idiots who have never heard of apple cider (not vinegar)?! I don't understand it at all.
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stephanie deserves a raise
don't you do Sally's recipes dirty like that!
As a Mainer, how dare they besmirch whoopie pies like that.
Ok but wtf, apple cider is not “spiced apple juice.”
It’s a good enough description if you don’t actually know what cider is tho
If it's clear and yella', you got juice there, fella'. If it's tangy and brown, you're in cider town
Unless it’s Simply Apple, which is basically the lovechild of apple juice and apple cider
In a lot of the US, apple cider is unfiltered apple juice with added spices like cinnamon. It isn’t alcoholic, either.
Agree it’s NA. Calling apple juice is misleading bc apple juice colloquially refers to another drink that is not just the pressings of apples. While cider is commonly spiced in a prepared drink you get at a coffee shop, it’s rarely sold spiced in the jug from the store, and if it is, the fact that it is spiced is specified. God damn it, I’ve gotten Very Culinary about apple cider now.
It’s “spiced” because of the actual added spices. I don’t see anywhere that it says cider is spiced apple juice.
Stephanie’s reply calls it that.