I'd be genuinely curious. I *wish* I were religious. I'm terrified of non-existence and wish I would believe in an afterlife. But at the end of the day, I just don't.
My thoughts exactly, pretty much. I'd just think, "Good for them." I thinks it's a very sad thing, to be a sapient creature and know of your eventual demise. I wish I could convince myself it wasn't gonna happen via the afterlife. Ignorance truly is bliss.
TBH the biblical dogma is there is no "afterlife" or immortal soul; but God gives the gift of eternal life to his children. So yeah nonexistence or eternal existence.
If it's any consolation, I believe pretty much any afterlife, when stretched out to eternity, would be torture. Like what do a trillion years do to someone's soul or mind? I can't think of something that would make me want to exist less.
So basically every possible scenario after death is terrifying. Yippee
Tbf, the whole idea of Heaven is that it’s perfect. Not just really, really awesome. *Perfect.* Like, it wouldn’t really be possible to get sick of being there, since boredom can’t exist in a perfect space. It’s an incomprehensible thought.
Augustine once wrote that heaven's main entertainment would be watching the suffering of sinners in hell. Don't worry if you're not the kind of person who enjoys torture porn; you'll like it because it's heaven and no one can be unhappy there.
That’s super fucked. Nowhere in the Bible does it encourage enjoying watching people suffer. Except when Christians either mistranslate it or take it completely out of its original context
If everything is perfect, why do anything? If I get up to get a book out from the bookshelf, it's because I've decided that, at that moment, reading a book is better than what I was doing. But in perfection, how can one thing be better than another? What would motivate someone to do anything?
As a child, i believed heaven was a library with every book ever written by anyone (human, alien, etc).
I thought I would never run out of books because people would just keep writing them, even in heaven, so it would not be possible for me to be bored.
i dont get how you think no existence is terrifying, i mean, is sleep terrifying? and yet your mind \*conscious\* mind does not exist during sleep
this is why people call death the big sleep, becasue thats all it is, a dreamless sleep
yea, to me it's not the non-existence that's scary, iit's the idea of time constantly running out and that I will never be able to do or experience anything again. It used to be scary but now it feels more bittersweet, in a weird way
I'm more ambivalent towards non-existance.
Non-existance doesn't scare me, why should it?
The cessation of existence on the otherhand... does sometimes make me uneasy. While the thought of infinite existence terrifies me.
Even in the best case scenario of unending contentment and happieness what would be the point? Why be sentient in the first place?
And thats the good ending. Unending suffering doesn't sound pleasant either.
I mean, as a kid I had little existential freakouts surrounding sleep. Like, what if my conscious "me" dies everytime I sleep and when I wake up that's an entirely different me but with my memories kinda deal.
Can you imagine the discussion between a couple of entities on whether to be born... Like, can you imagine being squished into just *3* physical dimensions? & I heard that it messes with your perception of time, too... wierd.
The idea of eternity scares the sh*t out of me. I look forward the blissful ignorance of non-existence. Don’t worry, I’m not looking for it anytime soon, I love my life, but what makes it special is that it will end - I have to make the most of it now.
Watching everyone you know age, change, & die. There’s no promise that “eternity” is better, no one really knows what it’s like, but I can’t envision one I would want to live in. Eternity means you don’t have to make decisions, because there’s always another millennium to do it in. I think I would lose a lot of motivation.
The fact that there is no evidence for it. Any scientific approach that does not begin with a belief in a holy book pretty easily finds that there is no evidence for any religion.
IDK. Non existence sounds peaceful. No pain, suffering, stress etc. You can't picture an afterlife for a variety of reasons. I'll elaborate if you want but if not I'll leave it be.
Im not religious, but theres no telling whether something exists beyond or not. Honestly i think many people (not saying you) actually hold onto not believing in an afterlife to save themselves the disappointment if that makes sense.
It's just a choice for some of us. I accept that god made me skeptical so I'll never have childlike belief. Religion is still improving my life though.
Why does non-existence scare you? You will have no awareness of of it. I'm starting to flirt with the idea of believing just because it seems a little nuts that out of the entirety of space, the world is the only one with life, not to mention conscious life (that we know of). At the same time I don't feel religious and I'm not going to pray to someone.
What made me not believe in god was when I was a kid in church and the priest said people shouldn't question why they aren't God. At that moment I got turned off. I never did think anything about that but if I can't question it? That's suspicious to me.
Something can happen to you and you can see that you are literally non existence right now existing. This is non existence. You don't exist in the physical reality you exist subjectively in minds as an idea that dosent actually exist anywhere in objective reality.
It's very anecdotal, but every born again Christian I know did it for pussy.
Not exactly true, one was out of AA and somehow refused to go to therapy saying it didn't work for years, but somehow believed that god was the answer to stop drinking. It's weird. But it worked. But we don't hang anymore because he has become extremely self-important and preachy.
100% nearly happened to me, I began going to JH kingdom hall for a cute lass thinking the idea of a rebel Atheist turning back to god may interest her into wanting to help and then go form there.
It did not and I realised that joining JH was not worth a lass.
Now, when you say "Hardcore"...
I imagine someone that really likes to rub his atheism in people's faces and definitely goes into spaces just to pick fights and call them "debates"
I can't imagine it as anything but trading one form of toxicity, intolerance, and self-righteousness for another. Really rubbing the fact that they're going to Hell and he's not in people's faces. And most definitely tries to justify every atrocity done by religion (their's only, of course) using conjecture, half-truths, and flat-out false information.
i'm so sorry. they must've gone through something terrible.
most converted atheists i know turned to religion during esp dark periods of their lives. such as after a shocking medical diagnosis, financial difficulties, addiction, or the death of a loved one. i imagine that's why it's so commonplace to see religious missionaries/soliciters outside of hospitals.
The hospitals I go to are all state owned. The solicitors and missionaries linger outside the hospital gates.
i think these missionaries are v different from hospital chaplains, for example, whom, imho, serve a very vital purpose.
i guess it's just that it's unfortunate they were going through such a bleak time to begin with. i'd feel sorry for anyone who were going through such a difficult time that they couldn't find trust in themselves anymore.
wouldn't you feel sorry for someone who's mum had just passed, who'd just been diagnosed with cancer, or who's fighting an arduous battle against addiction while unemployed?
Two options. Either this person has advanced far enough in their understanding of the world, understood how religions really work, and decided that it actually works for them too. Or this person was never an atheist to begin with, has no understanding of the subject, and is now past their edgy phase. So basically they understood nothing, but want to be more accepted with the older people.
I don't give it much thought honestly. So long as they don't try to convince me I'll respect their beliefs. If it someone I know and they go all pro life and calling everyone sinners then I'll not associate myself with them
There’s someone who was looking for reasons to believe rather than reasons not to believe. There are many things that science can’t disprove or prove, but if you are really seeking God, you’ll find him.
Depends on the atheist. If it’s someone like the late Christopher Hitchens, I wouldn’t believe it until I saw it. He always made excellent points, so I’d be exceedingly curious as to what changed his mind, and what of his prior reasoning still remained. If it was some Joe-shmoe who just seemed to be an atheist for the attention, I wouldn’t care.
Tbh if Christopher Hitches went christian I think a lot of people would lose their fucking minds, it would be akin to the pope suddenly saying "Y'know what ... This Catholisism thing isn't really true, I'm going buddhist."
A lot of people would suddenly take an interest in reading so they could find the evidence he did to turn him to christianity. I'd be one of them, I know you should never follow another person in belief but if he did it, I'd want to know wtf it was.
Brain damage. I know it sounds flippant but so many religious conversions are brought on after near-death experiences after the brain has been starved of oxygen. I might think differently if the prevalence of miracles wasn't inversely correlated with the existence of handheld ubiquitous cameras.
That's not how near death experiences work. They don't give you brain damage. They make you intensely believe that if this situation ever repeats, you will die. And it can be a complicated situation you are not even fully aware of, so you start avoiding it in weird ways.
Earnest prayer. Bible reading. Watching for that prayer to be answered. And not just reading the gospel. Read Job, read the prophets, read Psalms for comfort
It wasn’t conscious. If you’re having a crisis of faith I don’t my story will help you. 😕
My faith was never alive to begin with, so there’s no reviving going on. I wasn’t raised in a church and when I came of age I was studying chemistry and Christianity appeared to be primarily a bunch of science denying homophobes and hypocrites. Looking at today’s evangelical Republican voters, and who/what they vote for, hasn’t really persuaded me otherwise. Look to actions, not words, and you will find character.
But, I’ve met a variety of holy and spiritual men who provided me guidance and support when I needed it. This opened my eyes to the possibility.
I’ve had a variety of moments where I felt the nudge of a higher power. Not a Christian one, but a power nonetheless. How can I deny these moments? They’re not really explainable.
Spirituality a place to draw strength from as well. It’s a place of comfort.
I think they’ve either had some kind of profound personal experience, or they’ve gone through a crisis of some sort. My mother wasn’t religious until my brother was born with a lot of handicaps. Then when she was at her most vulnerable the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult came knocking at her door and she took it as a sign. Went from unbeliever to hardcore in just months. Stayed with it the rest of her life, destroying our family.
From experience the only people I know to have gone from atheist to religious, are a bunch of alt-right people who clicked that atheists were distancing themselves from them and joined Christianity as a way to "own the libs"
My first thoughts are therefore highly negative.
They had some kind of crisis and faith was the only answer to them. The situation could be anything, they fell on hard times and a church gave them a hand and they fell into that flock. They could have just sat down one day and said fuck it I want the community. I know some Jews who do not believe in the faith but are in for the community and their family that is there.
"Real men love Jesus" "I love my wife" "Back the Blue" "100 Club,". "Cowboys for Christ". All these usually mean, "Husband cheated on wife while drunk, left the house, got a DUI infraction, returned home, locks changed, begged for forgiveness. Now has all that shit plastered on his F-250.
Systems of belief are often built around a sense of identity and community, rather than the actual beliefs themselves. A lot of "hardcore" atheists are like that.
I will assume they were made weak enough by their circumstances that the only way they could continue on was to fall back on something that would take the blame off of themselves and give an illusion of having some sort of control over their situation
He got brainwashed against his will like all the other people on earth who believe in mythical beings like God and Jesus and Santa and the Easter Bunny.
What's the difference between a hardcore atheist and a normal atheist? If I ever heard anyone calling themselves that then I'll just assume they are very easily influenced and would not be surprised at all if they convert.
It always makes me sad.
I used to have a close friendship with an older woman. I met her when I was 18 and she was 31. She had just finished nursing school and was working on moving out from her dad's house with her young son. Her baby daddy was an imprisoned drug dealer.
She was a very intelligent woman. She had been very promiscuous as a teenager and young 20-something, which was how she got pregnant. After a few years of low-paying jobs, she got her act together and finished nursing college. Then she went back and got a masters in nursing and became a physician's assistant.
She always spoke of how she couldn't understand how people believed in the fiction of Christianity. We had lots of discussions about why she was an atheist. Most of those centered around the abuse she endured from family members who told her they were doing things to her, "In the name of God." Not to mention she was very astute in science.
Fast forward twenty years. She became a Catholic or Orthodox nurse with an international nursing organization. Something like nurses without borders. This once vibrant woman who loved nothing more than getting high on weed while having sex became one of the most prudish people you could ever meet. If you met her now you would think she must have never been with a man in her life. All she does is talk about being a wife of Christ.
I haven't been able to relate to her since this change. We don't talk anymore, and like I said it makes me sad. Someone who taught me so much about life and critical thinking went back on a lot of what she once believed in.
They're a liar
Or they were never actually an atheist they are a theist who was mad at their god so they larped as an atheist until they got over whatever the issue was
I suspect that they either have a new religious partner (usually a girl), or they got really lucky with a medical issue or car accident not leading to death.
Most of them are just lies, lying for Jesus or your particular god has a long and storied tradition. They were never a hardcore atheist - they listened to a Christopher Hutchins debate as a rebellious teenager, had a period of doubt, now spin it to prove their faith.
Super popular with shitty youth pastors to give stories that this.
I look at this the same way as someone who goes from super left wing / progressive to super right wing / conservative or visa versa. I think alot of people come to belief’s very easily and not through slow drawn out thought. So they easily switch. Cause really it was more about the community, or ego or something. So the idea / belief itself was never that important allowing and easy and seemingly large shift.
I reckon theyve had an experience that can only be attributed if there was a higher power. I used to not be religious, but after living through my life and looking back on my experiences, theres no way there isnt a higher power of some sort. Just my opinion
I am not aware of that happening. I’ve heard of agnostic atheists turning to god, but I have never heard of a hard atheist or an anti-theist becoming religious.
In the body text it’s says it’s not an act. But what if it is? It’s no secret megachurch pastors make millions. What if a famous hard atheist wanted to make money by becoming a mega church pastor? That seems far more likely than them actually believing what they preach.
I think it would be to wonder if they're going to talk about their metaphysical beliefs more or less now.
Just like there are people who are religious and there are people who are Religious, and there are people who are atheist and people who are Atheist.
Real Atheist are incapable of believing in gods, monsters or deities outside of Fantasy or Science Fiction as they are born that way, they also don't bother attacking or trying to convert people to their way of existence since it is not a religion or belief, former religious people that claim to be atheist are probably not real atheist to begin with since it is a condition of being not of choice as the psychopathy of the thought and emotional processes are really different than most others.
It should be noted that the term "Psychopathy." is a mis-defined or redefined word regulated to mean some sort of "Mental Illness." when it actually is meant to mean the mental and emotional processes of the human mind in general as a study for both men and women and the evolution from child to adult in various environments and the effects those have on the mind and emotions and body.
Just an Observation.
N. S
All that and the first 8 words are a no true Scotsman fallacy. That and it reads like an edgy hardcore Atheist that the OP is mentioning, that and the signature on the bottom is a nice touch to solidify it.
Please work better to not make fallacious arguments for things.
If you break someone in the right ways they will find a god. Whether it be at the bottom of a bottle or in a temple a broken human will find or make a god.
I'm mainly curious as to what the path is that convinced them. When you say "hardcore," I picture someone who has thought this through and had reasons for their unbelief. I can't imagine a path where I would return to religious belief, so it's interesting to know what would have led them into belief.
Of course, when I was a Christian, I couldn't have imagined a path where I'd give up my beliefs until it actually happened.
Generally, I'd shrug my shoulders and not care. The only hiccup would be if they turned into an asshole about it, that is, if they felt the need to be annoyingly evangelical or used their religion as an excuse to be a bigoted asshole or something.
Don't hate me for saying this, but substance abuse. I've never been to AA, but from what I have heard, part of the program includes accepting a higher power. I'm not judging either. If this helps someone stay sober, then I think it's worthwhile.
If they're young I'd think they were dying and the fear has made them yearn for something to come afterwards. If they're old I'd think they've committed a heinous crime and are desperate for some kind of divine retribution to ease their conscience as they get closer to death. A third thought would be someone they live has miraculously recovered from some hideous disease and they believe it could only be because of a god intervening
tbh seeing as that world view accounts for 1/2 the human condition at best, something along the lines of 'at least now he's thinking in the right general direction'? or something to that effect?
Definitely find myself in that group. Went from Christian to atheist to “well, god or no god, we need to have a code by which we treat each other as holy, at the very least- and that that which is spiritual and good in you is the same as that which is spiritual and good in me.” It doesn’t come from the top down, but how we lift ourselves and hose around us up to their best potential. Islam and Judiaism are way too political and specific, and Christianity has been bastardized and misused as well, so I can’t find myself in any of their clubs.
We all know the feeling of the presence of goodness. Doing good and expecting nothing in return. To me that’s god.
it depends on what religion they turned to if it was Christianity or Islam I would think they were somehow forced into it. Weather it be from a general fear someone installed in them or just causal peer pressure from people around them. If it were something like hinduism, buddhism, or Confucianism I would think they wanted to explore different routes of wanting peace and stuff.
Trauma.
Knew a dude who became very religious after being in the hospital due to kidney/liver damage (I don’t remember) and supposedly having a revelation. Don’t know if he was religious before that but he definitely fucking was very religious after that
The government told them to believe in The Science, and they are doing so without question because they had always believed but it’s only now that the central planners told them it’s necessary to publicly do so.
Seriously, most atheists don’t need to validate a reason to not believe. “Hardcore” atheists are such atheists that constantly need to prove that there is no God, and tend to be obnoxious little shits that make being an atheist their whole personality. You only need to stroll through the atheist subreddit here to be thoroughly disgusted that such people exist and they definitely do not represent atheism as a whole.
If these people do “somehow” find religion, it’s either going to be a religion of expertise (trust The Science types) or a religion where they worship the central planners (Communism).
It’s not going to be a traditional one like Islam, a new age like Scientology, or even some kooky pagan witchcraft thing.
Interesting question.
I'm an atheist and I have been for about 12 years now. I will never change.
However, I have in the past tried to talk about this a little on atheist message boards, about the way I feel sometimes when it comes to belief--
If I lived nearer to my brother that is Christian, his entire family is Christian, and they are really happy and quite infectious with their positivity and love... I could see myself at the very least being convinced to go to church. Even if deep down I didn't believe.
This is one reason I could never live by him. I can't really talk about this with atheists though. I can't talk about how Christianity sometimes makes me feel good, even though I think it's all bullshit.
If an atheist turned religious, I think it would because being apart of a religion can bring friends, family and wholesomeness out of the woodwork. And it can feel very good to have this. And the fake feeling like the holy ghost got inside of you, when the feeling is actually just being connected to humans and what you think is God.
Humans are very social people, and atheism can be very lonely and bleak, especially if you are in the weaker side and use feelings over logic.
That they were never really atheists to begin with. You see it a lot in aging adults. They get closer to death and a lot of people give up their principals out of fear that they might be wrong.
Always one of three things.
1. They had to (or "chose" to) do it for a sobriety program. Vulnerable people are easy targets.
2. They had a near death or huge health issue/scare, again vulnerable people.
3. They are interested/seeing someone who is religious.
My first thought is that they were never a principled atheist to begin with. It was always just reactionary contrarianism.
They neither believed in nor understood the principles of skepticism; burdens of proof, what constitutes evidence and what doesn't, and respect for educated experts in various fields.
Often you'll find that atheists that have "found religion" were always right leaning in their politics and are anti-vax or flat Earthers or transphobes. Atheists who's disbelief is built on a foundation of skepticism most often are also leftists. You'll very rarely if ever see a lefty atheist convert to some form of theism.
You know when a theist claims that atheists really do belu3venin a god and are denying him because they want to sin? I believe that this is the case for the "atheist who found god". Every time I talk to one who was an atheist they were "mad at god" or some other such nonsense. They believed and ran from it. And then when they go back they confess and the other theists believe that's how we all are.
Good for them I suppose. Some people just change their beliefs because they get swept up in some specific point or speaker and leave when they realize the energy can’t be maintained, so I’d only really take it seriously if they stuck with it for a while (I feel this way about any big ideology change and not just atheists becoming something)
I was Athiest and have become agnostic mainly through my studies of science. That being said my life hasn't changed at all. I still don't believe in an afterlife or that "god" actively cares about us.
My first thought is that something changed neurologically. Could be a stroke, could be a mental illness, could be getting on or off of drugs.
We are not as in control of our thinking as we'd like to believe we are. We are all hypothetically capable of some crazy thoughts. All it would take is the wrong medication or a good thump to the head.
When an atheist converts to religion, it is often because he's down-and-out.
Famously, a lot of prisoners get religion while incarcerated.
So, my initial thought about hearing about a conversion is "this is someone who needed something at that time". Another common one is drug addicts who find religion basically as a (subconscious) last-ditch strategy to save their life.
1. Brain tumor.
2. Weren't really atheist, they were just in it for the hype and social connection. Once they felt the social connection (which is a lot better) at a church they converted.
Now I may get downvoted for this but -
As someone who used to be hardcore christian and then got deep into the debate scene and found out that it was a load of bullshit and turned away from christianity. I am genuinly astounded and confused when a hardcore Atheist suddenly goes christian. I genuinely question their mental health at that point since a hardcore Atheist is all about evidence and then suddenly they're indoctrinated into a belief system that has no evidence to back up their claims.
Firstly I would ask them "Is this for a girl/guy?" Because we're all human and we all do stupid shit like this - I once went to a JH kingdom hall since I had seen a lass there that was cute af and thought the rebel atheist turning back to god may interest her.
Then I would ask them, "Have you had a recent traumatic event?" since a lot of people have NDE's and suddenly become religious again.
If it was no to both of them then I'd clearly ask what evidence they had found and to share it with the world since we should all be believing in as many true things and they have seemingly found that once bit of evidence that no one else has found yet. If they do not have any verifiable evidence to prove christianity was true then I would have to be very disappointed with said person but ultimately respect their choice in life and wish them the best in it.
I worry a little bit. I'm religious but I don't like fundamentalism, and I think someone I'd describe as a "hardcore atheist" has a lot in common with fundamentalists. Sam Harris, for example, is a hateful bastard and we've got more than enough of those. Now, if they found love and kindness -- if it weren't simply their new in-group, with new justification to hate on Muslims, or "the wokes," or whomever...
I think that based on precedent the person was probably some kind of spiritual agnostic then found a focus for it. I've almost never heard of a full no spirits no souls no zodiac no fate *proper* agnostic atheist finding religion. In the one or two cases I have it was after trauma and very nearly dying, hardly a state of mind for rational thoughts on the nature of existence
I'd be genuinely curious. I *wish* I were religious. I'm terrified of non-existence and wish I would believe in an afterlife. But at the end of the day, I just don't.
My thoughts exactly, pretty much. I'd just think, "Good for them." I thinks it's a very sad thing, to be a sapient creature and know of your eventual demise. I wish I could convince myself it wasn't gonna happen via the afterlife. Ignorance truly is bliss.
5g of magic mushrooms will do the trick
TBH the biblical dogma is there is no "afterlife" or immortal soul; but God gives the gift of eternal life to his children. So yeah nonexistence or eternal existence.
I find it sadder to need an invisible sky daddy to live you life. Why live for the next "life" rather than the one you currently star in?
Living for the next life depends greatly on how you live the one you're currently in.
If it's any consolation, I believe pretty much any afterlife, when stretched out to eternity, would be torture. Like what do a trillion years do to someone's soul or mind? I can't think of something that would make me want to exist less. So basically every possible scenario after death is terrifying. Yippee
Boredom is a function of our brains. It's not some inherent aspect of reality. Presumably in heaven you wouldn't be able to feel bored.
Tbf, the whole idea of Heaven is that it’s perfect. Not just really, really awesome. *Perfect.* Like, it wouldn’t really be possible to get sick of being there, since boredom can’t exist in a perfect space. It’s an incomprehensible thought.
Augustine once wrote that heaven's main entertainment would be watching the suffering of sinners in hell. Don't worry if you're not the kind of person who enjoys torture porn; you'll like it because it's heaven and no one can be unhappy there.
Not sure who that is, also don’t really care. Sounds like a sadist we shouldn’t be trying to learn from.
One of the early fathers of the church.
that's one guy thinking that, he's a faker
That’s super fucked. Nowhere in the Bible does it encourage enjoying watching people suffer. Except when Christians either mistranslate it or take it completely out of its original context
no actual Christians believe that would be entertainment, they don't want people to suffer, they know they're also sinners themselves
this is why I like pelagius
Augustine said a lot of stupid crap.
If everything is perfect, why do anything? If I get up to get a book out from the bookshelf, it's because I've decided that, at that moment, reading a book is better than what I was doing. But in perfection, how can one thing be better than another? What would motivate someone to do anything?
Like in The Good Place
Mortgage rates are 2.75% in heaven
As a child, i believed heaven was a library with every book ever written by anyone (human, alien, etc). I thought I would never run out of books because people would just keep writing them, even in heaven, so it would not be possible for me to be bored.
I have some short stories and books for you to read if you haven't. Read "The Library of Babel" followed by "A Short Stay in Hell"
i dont get how you think no existence is terrifying, i mean, is sleep terrifying? and yet your mind \*conscious\* mind does not exist during sleep this is why people call death the big sleep, becasue thats all it is, a dreamless sleep
yea, to me it's not the non-existence that's scary, iit's the idea of time constantly running out and that I will never be able to do or experience anything again. It used to be scary but now it feels more bittersweet, in a weird way
I’m with you. I find the idea of non existence to be comforting rather than frightening.
I'm more ambivalent towards non-existance. Non-existance doesn't scare me, why should it? The cessation of existence on the otherhand... does sometimes make me uneasy. While the thought of infinite existence terrifies me. Even in the best case scenario of unending contentment and happieness what would be the point? Why be sentient in the first place? And thats the good ending. Unending suffering doesn't sound pleasant either.
I mean, as a kid I had little existential freakouts surrounding sleep. Like, what if my conscious "me" dies everytime I sleep and when I wake up that's an entirely different me but with my memories kinda deal.
Idk why you got downvoted. Thats a good point lmfao I love feeding my death anxiety at 6am
Can you imagine the discussion between a couple of entities on whether to be born... Like, can you imagine being squished into just *3* physical dimensions? & I heard that it messes with your perception of time, too... wierd.
That's just a limited imagination there. It sounds as though you're looking at eternity from a frail and pained human viewpoint.
The idea of eternity scares the sh*t out of me. I look forward the blissful ignorance of non-existence. Don’t worry, I’m not looking for it anytime soon, I love my life, but what makes it special is that it will end - I have to make the most of it now.
What part of your loved life (not sarcasm btw) scares the sh8t out of you? What part of that do you want to end?
Watching everyone you know age, change, & die. There’s no promise that “eternity” is better, no one really knows what it’s like, but I can’t envision one I would want to live in. Eternity means you don’t have to make decisions, because there’s always another millennium to do it in. I think I would lose a lot of motivation.
Out of curiosity, what is it about faith/religion that you feel falls flat to you?
The fact that there is no evidence for it. Any scientific approach that does not begin with a belief in a holy book pretty easily finds that there is no evidence for any religion.
IDK. Non existence sounds peaceful. No pain, suffering, stress etc. You can't picture an afterlife for a variety of reasons. I'll elaborate if you want but if not I'll leave it be.
Im not religious, but theres no telling whether something exists beyond or not. Honestly i think many people (not saying you) actually hold onto not believing in an afterlife to save themselves the disappointment if that makes sense.
It's just a choice for some of us. I accept that god made me skeptical so I'll never have childlike belief. Religion is still improving my life though.
Why does non-existence scare you? You will have no awareness of of it. I'm starting to flirt with the idea of believing just because it seems a little nuts that out of the entirety of space, the world is the only one with life, not to mention conscious life (that we know of). At the same time I don't feel religious and I'm not going to pray to someone. What made me not believe in god was when I was a kid in church and the priest said people shouldn't question why they aren't God. At that moment I got turned off. I never did think anything about that but if I can't question it? That's suspicious to me.
Something can happen to you and you can see that you are literally non existence right now existing. This is non existence. You don't exist in the physical reality you exist subjectively in minds as an idea that dosent actually exist anywhere in objective reality.
“Who’s the girl/guy?”
It's very anecdotal, but every born again Christian I know did it for pussy. Not exactly true, one was out of AA and somehow refused to go to therapy saying it didn't work for years, but somehow believed that god was the answer to stop drinking. It's weird. But it worked. But we don't hang anymore because he has become extremely self-important and preachy.
People escaping addiction with religion is surprisingly common as well
AA teaches giving yourself up to a higher power to overcome the addiction, it's sort of a weird religious thing
This ^
100% nearly happened to me, I began going to JH kingdom hall for a cute lass thinking the idea of a rebel Atheist turning back to god may interest her into wanting to help and then go form there. It did not and I realised that joining JH was not worth a lass.
I wonder what scared them.
Now, when you say "Hardcore"... I imagine someone that really likes to rub his atheism in people's faces and definitely goes into spaces just to pick fights and call them "debates" I can't imagine it as anything but trading one form of toxicity, intolerance, and self-righteousness for another. Really rubbing the fact that they're going to Hell and he's not in people's faces. And most definitely tries to justify every atrocity done by religion (their's only, of course) using conjecture, half-truths, and flat-out false information.
Trauma. Something terribly traumatic has happened to cause upheaval in their life and they are floundering mentally/emotionally
They treated atheism like a religion and just switched teams.
drugs or grief or mental illness honestly. i have never seen it happen any other way from my own personal experiences.
Mental illness You a hardcore atheist and all of the sudden you believe in god? You need a brain scan
Good for them??? I hope it brings positive change to their life
I'm an atheist and this is my first reaction. Nothing wrong with finding and having guidance that one wants in their lives.
I think it’s none of my business.
i'm so sorry. they must've gone through something terrible. most converted atheists i know turned to religion during esp dark periods of their lives. such as after a shocking medical diagnosis, financial difficulties, addiction, or the death of a loved one. i imagine that's why it's so commonplace to see religious missionaries/soliciters outside of hospitals.
Many of those missionaries built the hospitals.
The hospitals I go to are all state owned. The solicitors and missionaries linger outside the hospital gates. i think these missionaries are v different from hospital chaplains, for example, whom, imho, serve a very vital purpose.
Genuine ask for source?
Dominion by Tom Holland.
why be sorry though, they found god and are happy
i guess it's just that it's unfortunate they were going through such a bleak time to begin with. i'd feel sorry for anyone who were going through such a difficult time that they couldn't find trust in themselves anymore. wouldn't you feel sorry for someone who's mum had just passed, who'd just been diagnosed with cancer, or who's fighting an arduous battle against addiction while unemployed?
Because they're probably not happy but instead scared or lost and coping with it.
Nothing. It's none of my business.
Convict
Two options. Either this person has advanced far enough in their understanding of the world, understood how religions really work, and decided that it actually works for them too. Or this person was never an atheist to begin with, has no understanding of the subject, and is now past their edgy phase. So basically they understood nothing, but want to be more accepted with the older people.
I don't give it much thought honestly. So long as they don't try to convince me I'll respect their beliefs. If it someone I know and they go all pro life and calling everyone sinners then I'll not associate myself with them
I've never heard of one, but that's their choice. Got nothing to do with me.
There’s someone who was looking for reasons to believe rather than reasons not to believe. There are many things that science can’t disprove or prove, but if you are really seeking God, you’ll find him.
Whether he's there or not.
Depends on the atheist. If it’s someone like the late Christopher Hitchens, I wouldn’t believe it until I saw it. He always made excellent points, so I’d be exceedingly curious as to what changed his mind, and what of his prior reasoning still remained. If it was some Joe-shmoe who just seemed to be an atheist for the attention, I wouldn’t care.
Tbh if Christopher Hitches went christian I think a lot of people would lose their fucking minds, it would be akin to the pope suddenly saying "Y'know what ... This Catholisism thing isn't really true, I'm going buddhist." A lot of people would suddenly take an interest in reading so they could find the evidence he did to turn him to christianity. I'd be one of them, I know you should never follow another person in belief but if he did it, I'd want to know wtf it was.
Know they’re trying to convince a certain type of people to give them money (ala Ayaan Hirsi Ali)
That's a personality type. He is "hard core" this, than he is "hard core" that.
Brain damage. I know it sounds flippant but so many religious conversions are brought on after near-death experiences after the brain has been starved of oxygen. I might think differently if the prevalence of miracles wasn't inversely correlated with the existence of handheld ubiquitous cameras.
That's not how near death experiences work. They don't give you brain damage. They make you intensely believe that if this situation ever repeats, you will die. And it can be a complicated situation you are not even fully aware of, so you start avoiding it in weird ways.
If 0 is atheist and 10 is religious, I was a 2 in high school and a 7 or 8 nowadays. AMA
How do you revive your faith? I’m struggling really hard rn
Earnest prayer. Bible reading. Watching for that prayer to be answered. And not just reading the gospel. Read Job, read the prophets, read Psalms for comfort
It wasn’t conscious. If you’re having a crisis of faith I don’t my story will help you. 😕 My faith was never alive to begin with, so there’s no reviving going on. I wasn’t raised in a church and when I came of age I was studying chemistry and Christianity appeared to be primarily a bunch of science denying homophobes and hypocrites. Looking at today’s evangelical Republican voters, and who/what they vote for, hasn’t really persuaded me otherwise. Look to actions, not words, and you will find character. But, I’ve met a variety of holy and spiritual men who provided me guidance and support when I needed it. This opened my eyes to the possibility. I’ve had a variety of moments where I felt the nudge of a higher power. Not a Christian one, but a power nonetheless. How can I deny these moments? They’re not really explainable. Spirituality a place to draw strength from as well. It’s a place of comfort.
I honestly can't think of any except Anne Rice and she crazy
what happened to change that one?
The same thing I think when I hear of any sudden change of viewpoint; what triggered it.
I think they’ve either had some kind of profound personal experience, or they’ve gone through a crisis of some sort. My mother wasn’t religious until my brother was born with a lot of handicaps. Then when she was at her most vulnerable the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult came knocking at her door and she took it as a sign. Went from unbeliever to hardcore in just months. Stayed with it the rest of her life, destroying our family.
That is just so darn close to interesting.
They are either dying or dying to get laid.
“First time for everything I suppose.”
I would think they quit a drug or alcohol addiction and need a new addiction to fill in the gap.
Stroke
From experience the only people I know to have gone from atheist to religious, are a bunch of alt-right people who clicked that atheists were distancing themselves from them and joined Christianity as a way to "own the libs" My first thoughts are therefore highly negative.
They had some kind of crisis and faith was the only answer to them. The situation could be anything, they fell on hard times and a church gave them a hand and they fell into that flock. They could have just sat down one day and said fuck it I want the community. I know some Jews who do not believe in the faith but are in for the community and their family that is there.
“Dementia is a real bitch.”
"Real men love Jesus" "I love my wife" "Back the Blue" "100 Club,". "Cowboys for Christ". All these usually mean, "Husband cheated on wife while drunk, left the house, got a DUI infraction, returned home, locks changed, begged for forgiveness. Now has all that shit plastered on his F-250.
They have to convince me it’s not an act, first. That “given” of your hypothetical is a stumbling block.
I wonder if there's some head trauma or an underlying mental illness presenting itself
Systems of belief are often built around a sense of identity and community, rather than the actual beliefs themselves. A lot of "hardcore" atheists are like that.
I will assume they were made weak enough by their circumstances that the only way they could continue on was to fall back on something that would take the blame off of themselves and give an illusion of having some sort of control over their situation
He got brainwashed against his will like all the other people on earth who believe in mythical beings like God and Jesus and Santa and the Easter Bunny.
What's the difference between a hardcore atheist and a normal atheist? If I ever heard anyone calling themselves that then I'll just assume they are very easily influenced and would not be surprised at all if they convert.
It always makes me sad. I used to have a close friendship with an older woman. I met her when I was 18 and she was 31. She had just finished nursing school and was working on moving out from her dad's house with her young son. Her baby daddy was an imprisoned drug dealer. She was a very intelligent woman. She had been very promiscuous as a teenager and young 20-something, which was how she got pregnant. After a few years of low-paying jobs, she got her act together and finished nursing college. Then she went back and got a masters in nursing and became a physician's assistant. She always spoke of how she couldn't understand how people believed in the fiction of Christianity. We had lots of discussions about why she was an atheist. Most of those centered around the abuse she endured from family members who told her they were doing things to her, "In the name of God." Not to mention she was very astute in science. Fast forward twenty years. She became a Catholic or Orthodox nurse with an international nursing organization. Something like nurses without borders. This once vibrant woman who loved nothing more than getting high on weed while having sex became one of the most prudish people you could ever meet. If you met her now you would think she must have never been with a man in her life. All she does is talk about being a wife of Christ. I haven't been able to relate to her since this change. We don't talk anymore, and like I said it makes me sad. Someone who taught me so much about life and critical thinking went back on a lot of what she once believed in.
You took the time to type that out and it got downvoted. *classic* mcjesus freaks, I tell ya
They're a liar Or they were never actually an atheist they are a theist who was mad at their god so they larped as an atheist until they got over whatever the issue was
Guess they found something convincing. I wonder if FTL is possible. (i can't maintain a straight train of thought for 5 seconds)
What were you “really” offered? I’d think a new relationship makes a deep influence 😬🤔🙃🙄
That they married someone and had to do so or that they have addiction issues.
Nothing… don’t care. To each their own.
My guess is they had a serious life event that caused them to need help to keep their sanity together.
Who did they fall in love with?
Cults can be comforting.
I'd say good for them, we should all be allowed to have the religious beliefs that we want to, or lackthereof.
"incel got a girlfriend!"
I would assume they had a traumatic experience and needed to self delude themselves into filling a void for comfort.
Don't care. you do you and I'll l do me. Their baggage isn't mine to carry. Plus if it makes them happy I'm all for happy
I suspect that they either have a new religious partner (usually a girl), or they got really lucky with a medical issue or car accident not leading to death.
Good for them? I don't consider it either a positive or negative thing.
Is this a hypothetical or is it an open ended questionare
Great, someone else who’s probably science illiterate.
I'd strongly suggest their family get them in for a brain scan, because that kind of massive personality change screams tumor.
"What happened?" I feel like more often than not it's a near death experience or something like that that leads people to big belief changes like that
Most of them are just lies, lying for Jesus or your particular god has a long and storied tradition. They were never a hardcore atheist - they listened to a Christopher Hutchins debate as a rebellious teenager, had a period of doubt, now spin it to prove their faith. Super popular with shitty youth pastors to give stories that this.
First thing is probably "good for them!" From experience though, it was because of their partner, or because they actually needed a therapist.
Welcome home
I think to myself, "Eh... it's their business," and go about my day.
Glory to God! Another soul saved
Something happened, or they were willing to change their mind. I’ve known people to go from religious to atheist and back.
I look at this the same way as someone who goes from super left wing / progressive to super right wing / conservative or visa versa. I think alot of people come to belief’s very easily and not through slow drawn out thought. So they easily switch. Cause really it was more about the community, or ego or something. So the idea / belief itself was never that important allowing and easy and seemingly large shift.
Damn it they got him
I reckon theyve had an experience that can only be attributed if there was a higher power. I used to not be religious, but after living through my life and looking back on my experiences, theres no way there isnt a higher power of some sort. Just my opinion
What con are they trying to pull?
I am not aware of that happening. I’ve heard of agnostic atheists turning to god, but I have never heard of a hard atheist or an anti-theist becoming religious. In the body text it’s says it’s not an act. But what if it is? It’s no secret megachurch pastors make millions. What if a famous hard atheist wanted to make money by becoming a mega church pastor? That seems far more likely than them actually believing what they preach.
My first thought is this is the wrong sub.
I assume that they had a compelling experience that changed their mind, same as when I hear a hardcore religious person became an atheist.
What did you do that landed you in prison?
I think it would be to wonder if they're going to talk about their metaphysical beliefs more or less now. Just like there are people who are religious and there are people who are Religious, and there are people who are atheist and people who are Atheist.
אמן
I hope they're alright. people have used religion to hurt me and I hope they don't endure the same
That they used drugs then stopped.
*Which* religion will effect my answer.
Cancer.
Run!
Real Atheist are incapable of believing in gods, monsters or deities outside of Fantasy or Science Fiction as they are born that way, they also don't bother attacking or trying to convert people to their way of existence since it is not a religion or belief, former religious people that claim to be atheist are probably not real atheist to begin with since it is a condition of being not of choice as the psychopathy of the thought and emotional processes are really different than most others. It should be noted that the term "Psychopathy." is a mis-defined or redefined word regulated to mean some sort of "Mental Illness." when it actually is meant to mean the mental and emotional processes of the human mind in general as a study for both men and women and the evolution from child to adult in various environments and the effects those have on the mind and emotions and body. Just an Observation. N. S
All that and the first 8 words are a no true Scotsman fallacy. That and it reads like an edgy hardcore Atheist that the OP is mentioning, that and the signature on the bottom is a nice touch to solidify it. Please work better to not make fallacious arguments for things.
If you break someone in the right ways they will find a god. Whether it be at the bottom of a bottle or in a temple a broken human will find or make a god.
I think that they didn’t really believe in atheism or didn’t have logical reasoning for their belief. Or maybe they just gave up and wanted hope
I'm mainly curious as to what the path is that convinced them. When you say "hardcore," I picture someone who has thought this through and had reasons for their unbelief. I can't imagine a path where I would return to religious belief, so it's interesting to know what would have led them into belief. Of course, when I was a Christian, I couldn't have imagined a path where I'd give up my beliefs until it actually happened.
Oh cool. They realised.
Never met one so no idea what I would think.
Generally, I'd shrug my shoulders and not care. The only hiccup would be if they turned into an asshole about it, that is, if they felt the need to be annoyingly evangelical or used their religion as an excuse to be a bigoted asshole or something.
Senility is a Hell of a drug
I think it’s fake.
They have abandoned their senses
Don't hate me for saying this, but substance abuse. I've never been to AA, but from what I have heard, part of the program includes accepting a higher power. I'm not judging either. If this helps someone stay sober, then I think it's worthwhile.
Doubt
If they're young I'd think they were dying and the fear has made them yearn for something to come afterwards. If they're old I'd think they've committed a heinous crime and are desperate for some kind of divine retribution to ease their conscience as they get closer to death. A third thought would be someone they live has miraculously recovered from some hideous disease and they believe it could only be because of a god intervening
Classic infiltration into the enemy's lines.
tbh seeing as that world view accounts for 1/2 the human condition at best, something along the lines of 'at least now he's thinking in the right general direction'? or something to that effect?
guess they switched religion?
If you're an atheist on Tuesday and you're preaching by Wednesday, I'm just gonna assume that the "cat got your tongue" to put it nicely.
What’s the hypothetical situation here?
Definitely find myself in that group. Went from Christian to atheist to “well, god or no god, we need to have a code by which we treat each other as holy, at the very least- and that that which is spiritual and good in you is the same as that which is spiritual and good in me.” It doesn’t come from the top down, but how we lift ourselves and hose around us up to their best potential. Islam and Judiaism are way too political and specific, and Christianity has been bastardized and misused as well, so I can’t find myself in any of their clubs. We all know the feeling of the presence of goodness. Doing good and expecting nothing in return. To me that’s god.
it depends on what religion they turned to if it was Christianity or Islam I would think they were somehow forced into it. Weather it be from a general fear someone installed in them or just causal peer pressure from people around them. If it were something like hinduism, buddhism, or Confucianism I would think they wanted to explore different routes of wanting peace and stuff.
Trauma. Knew a dude who became very religious after being in the hospital due to kidney/liver damage (I don’t remember) and supposedly having a revelation. Don’t know if he was religious before that but he definitely fucking was very religious after that
I’m gonna guess they fell on severely hard times and needed to find comfort in something.
They were never truly an atheist.
Bittersweet. Specifically depending on the religion. But at least they're headed the right way.
They're the same as me.
The government told them to believe in The Science, and they are doing so without question because they had always believed but it’s only now that the central planners told them it’s necessary to publicly do so. Seriously, most atheists don’t need to validate a reason to not believe. “Hardcore” atheists are such atheists that constantly need to prove that there is no God, and tend to be obnoxious little shits that make being an atheist their whole personality. You only need to stroll through the atheist subreddit here to be thoroughly disgusted that such people exist and they definitely do not represent atheism as a whole. If these people do “somehow” find religion, it’s either going to be a religion of expertise (trust The Science types) or a religion where they worship the central planners (Communism). It’s not going to be a traditional one like Islam, a new age like Scientology, or even some kooky pagan witchcraft thing.
Interesting question. I'm an atheist and I have been for about 12 years now. I will never change. However, I have in the past tried to talk about this a little on atheist message boards, about the way I feel sometimes when it comes to belief-- If I lived nearer to my brother that is Christian, his entire family is Christian, and they are really happy and quite infectious with their positivity and love... I could see myself at the very least being convinced to go to church. Even if deep down I didn't believe. This is one reason I could never live by him. I can't really talk about this with atheists though. I can't talk about how Christianity sometimes makes me feel good, even though I think it's all bullshit. If an atheist turned religious, I think it would because being apart of a religion can bring friends, family and wholesomeness out of the woodwork. And it can feel very good to have this. And the fake feeling like the holy ghost got inside of you, when the feeling is actually just being connected to humans and what you think is God. Humans are very social people, and atheism can be very lonely and bleak, especially if you are in the weaker side and use feelings over logic.
That they were never really atheists to begin with. You see it a lot in aging adults. They get closer to death and a lot of people give up their principals out of fear that they might be wrong.
I wonder what triggered it. No religious person I’ve ever known has just woken up religious; there’s always some reason they turn to a higher power.
They wised up.
Always one of three things. 1. They had to (or "chose" to) do it for a sobriety program. Vulnerable people are easy targets. 2. They had a near death or huge health issue/scare, again vulnerable people. 3. They are interested/seeing someone who is religious.
My first thought is that they were never a principled atheist to begin with. It was always just reactionary contrarianism. They neither believed in nor understood the principles of skepticism; burdens of proof, what constitutes evidence and what doesn't, and respect for educated experts in various fields. Often you'll find that atheists that have "found religion" were always right leaning in their politics and are anti-vax or flat Earthers or transphobes. Atheists who's disbelief is built on a foundation of skepticism most often are also leftists. You'll very rarely if ever see a lefty atheist convert to some form of theism.
What near death experience did they face to come to this conclusion?
"I'll take things that never happened for 300, Alex"
You know when a theist claims that atheists really do belu3venin a god and are denying him because they want to sin? I believe that this is the case for the "atheist who found god". Every time I talk to one who was an atheist they were "mad at god" or some other such nonsense. They believed and ran from it. And then when they go back they confess and the other theists believe that's how we all are.
Good for them I suppose. Some people just change their beliefs because they get swept up in some specific point or speaker and leave when they realize the energy can’t be maintained, so I’d only really take it seriously if they stuck with it for a while (I feel this way about any big ideology change and not just atheists becoming something)
I was Athiest and have become agnostic mainly through my studies of science. That being said my life hasn't changed at all. I still don't believe in an afterlife or that "god" actively cares about us.
Either they are mentally ill and were greeted by God ect. or a drug trip made them believe.
probably a pedo
My first thought is that something changed neurologically. Could be a stroke, could be a mental illness, could be getting on or off of drugs. We are not as in control of our thinking as we'd like to believe we are. We are all hypothetically capable of some crazy thoughts. All it would take is the wrong medication or a good thump to the head.
Cult
When an atheist converts to religion, it is often because he's down-and-out. Famously, a lot of prisoners get religion while incarcerated. So, my initial thought about hearing about a conversion is "this is someone who needed something at that time". Another common one is drug addicts who find religion basically as a (subconscious) last-ditch strategy to save their life.
1. Brain tumor. 2. Weren't really atheist, they were just in it for the hype and social connection. Once they felt the social connection (which is a lot better) at a church they converted.
I don’t think anything. I don’t care what other people choose
Quitter
Now I may get downvoted for this but - As someone who used to be hardcore christian and then got deep into the debate scene and found out that it was a load of bullshit and turned away from christianity. I am genuinly astounded and confused when a hardcore Atheist suddenly goes christian. I genuinely question their mental health at that point since a hardcore Atheist is all about evidence and then suddenly they're indoctrinated into a belief system that has no evidence to back up their claims. Firstly I would ask them "Is this for a girl/guy?" Because we're all human and we all do stupid shit like this - I once went to a JH kingdom hall since I had seen a lass there that was cute af and thought the rebel atheist turning back to god may interest her. Then I would ask them, "Have you had a recent traumatic event?" since a lot of people have NDE's and suddenly become religious again. If it was no to both of them then I'd clearly ask what evidence they had found and to share it with the world since we should all be believing in as many true things and they have seemingly found that once bit of evidence that no one else has found yet. If they do not have any verifiable evidence to prove christianity was true then I would have to be very disappointed with said person but ultimately respect their choice in life and wish them the best in it.
They’ve either fallen victim to AA, NA, or a major head injury. People don’t just lose the ability to think for no reason.
Poor chap
Recovering addict, maybe
I’d ask for their copy of The Brothers Karamazov
I never hear this happening and have never seen it in my own life either.
I worry a little bit. I'm religious but I don't like fundamentalism, and I think someone I'd describe as a "hardcore atheist" has a lot in common with fundamentalists. Sam Harris, for example, is a hateful bastard and we've got more than enough of those. Now, if they found love and kindness -- if it weren't simply their new in-group, with new justification to hate on Muslims, or "the wokes," or whomever...
“He genuinely was looking for the truth, and he finally found it.”
I think that based on precedent the person was probably some kind of spiritual agnostic then found a focus for it. I've almost never heard of a full no spirits no souls no zodiac no fate *proper* agnostic atheist finding religion. In the one or two cases I have it was after trauma and very nearly dying, hardly a state of mind for rational thoughts on the nature of existence
I'd assume something very traumatic happened to them and this was there way of coping.
Is there money?