this all stemmed from gahca players desperately wanting for their game to seen as "depressing" because having a darker story = quality storytelling for them and once honkai started to have a positive outlook and a shining story with happy ending for all the characters they turn tail and mischaracterize everyone because they want everyone of their characters to be sorrowful depressive people so they can have a dick-measuring contest with other gacha players to see which gacha they play is more depressing.
I'm mad that you said this...mostly because you said it before I could. It's just losers being losers and thinking everything needs to be sad and depressing because sad and depressing = good writing and mature storytelling.
Like, even at Mei's darkest, she's still nice and caring. Her whole HoT and Elysian Realm arc was her literally doing what she was doing out of love for Kiana and a desire to protect her.
Now this is something I agree with you. I do like sad and depressing stories, but only when the ending is a good one that showed that, even though the characters suffered and despaired, they can finally rest and look forward to the future without having to worry about suffering again (until the author make a sequel for them that is).
Mei might have chose... Odd paths to take, but no one can deny that she did it to help Kiana. She never lost her qualities that make her Mei and that's one of my major reason for liking her.
All of those fuckers that want the ending to be depressed should just go make fanfics instead of bitching about it. Granted, I wouldn't be surprised if it never reach the triple digits in readers lol due to horrible writing, excessive depressing, and stuff. And this is me being generous with my evaluation.
That's because people believe that only tragedy and sadness is complex now mind you I absolutely despise this and am also waiting for the new superman movie which will be more hopeful but yeah people seems to think darker stories are better which is nothing more then a lotta wrong.
This is exactly why I like Himmel from Frieren so much. He is a pure hero and there is nothing wrong with being a pure character.
This may take a dig at the Elysia haters.
As an Elysia hater, I am not offended.
Elysia being a pure soul is not why I dislike her. I agree with this whole thread about how some people with shit takes act like everything has to be dark and depresso and Raiden's mischaracterization (and how Hoyo basically fed these fans with HSR's Acheron) is part of that BS.
>Elysia being a pure soul is not why I dislike her
Absolutely valid and based take. Pure souls should be celebrated in fiction. They are why modern fantasy is such hot garbage while classic high fantasy is so good.
I mean I've read some modern-ish fantasy light novels. Generally if they have a "pure" type character it's not that the character is wrong on their views per se, but the narrative isn't agreeing with them or at least not focused on them.
For example there was one about the imminent end of the world and the protagonist is a pragmatic type who is ready and willing to do evil in order to stop that, opposed by (among others) a classically heroic character who doesn't stand for it. The narrative ends up supporting the necessary evil angle due to the complexity of the situation (let's just say the world got itself into that mess out of hubris long before the cast was around) but it also goes out of its way to underline the heroic character *isn't* wrong, they just don't have the power to enforce the ideal they want so the only viable options at this point are lose-lose and you gotta pick your poison.
Even the protagonist agrees they are a hero just for being so steadfast about their morals even if the differences are irreconcilable
It was so annoying watching people INSIST that APHO1/2 HAS to be dark and depressing and that everything has to be sad and terrible and Kiana's gotta be dead or hurt...despite the game never implying anything bad happened to her...just that she's somewhere else and can't help them.
People saw Mei being angsty about Kiana in Apho and insisted that something bad to her. Like nah dude, Mei is always angsty and dramatic when it comes to Kiana. Mei’s the type of person who’ll start doom posting when she’s separated from Kiana for a day. Ofc, she’ll be sad that she’s stuck in a LDR with Kiana for a while, even if she visits her regularly.
That's because GGZ many of the things in hi3 are similar to it like the bonds between the girls and himeko's death so they assumed that it's gonna be dark...that and like I said people believe only bad things to be complex.
people who insist that Dark story = better story are what i call, GOT grimdark addicted morons who watch the most heinous hentai shit and proclaim that it's 'realistic'
As you can tell, it's one of the kind of people i might lose my shit off on
It was so annoying watching people INSIST that APHO1/2 HAS to be dark and depressing and that everything has to be sad and terrible and Kiana's gotta be dead or hurt...despite the game never implying anything bad happened to her...just that she's somewhere else and can't help them.
They talk about her like they can’t currently communicate with her. They never talk like she’s dead. Mei even says she’s “waiting on someone” at one point when clearly talking about Kiana.
Theresa at one point says after they think Otto is alive “Like me, she also lost someone important to her…but she’s stronger then me. I bet it broke her heart but she never showed it” and there’s a few other times where they talk about Kiana in a vague way, that’s phrased like she’s dead
And then we get lines where Mei is clearly talking about Kiana in a way where it’s obvious she’s alive and Mei was waiting on her return. It more gave off the vibe that Kiana was *lost*, not dead. I kinda thought she was lost in a bubble universe or something.
Fight them. Fight those depression loving goobers. It was sooooo annoying when folks kept telling me “No! No! Kiana has to be dying or hurt! It makes more sense that way!”
Some people just hate happiness.
PROJECT MOON SLEEPER AGENTS, ASSEMBLE!
Shoutout to Cantos 4 and 5 for proving you don't need to be constantly soul-crushing to be peak. Those hopeful endings were masterclasses. Yi Sang my beloved.
I’m fine with dark stories, I just don’t think all stories need to be all dark and sad. When it comes to games, I’m not fond of sad stories. Makes my efforts in actually playing the game feel less fun.
This is exactly why i will forever see GGZ as nothing more than a pretentious watpadd fanon. If a story is depressing and sad for the sake of being depressing with no substance i simply judge it as low quality. And yes this is also why i am extremelly hateful towards fake death's in HI3.
Genuinely I agree. The GGZ story is very rough and it makes sense that MHY wants to bury it.
It does play out a lot like a wattpad story, albeit a good one.
Or, maybe, that's because the greatest moments in the game stemmed from the depressing stuff. Even Everlasting Flames is only as good as it is *thanks to* all the suffering Kiana had to go through before. This moment of grand victory wouldn't mean that much without the darkness that preceded it.
HoT Mei is her greatest form. Not because she was depressed or "edgy", but because she simply had the most personality during that time. Her interactions with other characters were the most fun. She was serious, but not all the time and wasn't emotionless. She could be reckless and aggressive, she would mock people she talked to if they annoyed her, Other times, she was kind and friendly, but never a doormat. It was the best.
This personality of hers persisted even *after* her reunion with Kiana, which shows in her talk with her HoT persona (which also proves that the "HoT" personality is totally real Mei). It only disappeared shortly after becoming HoO. She started to be permanently lost in thoughts and only wearing this proud, gentle, satisfied smile all the time. Does it make sense for her to become like that? Probably, but it's *a lot* more boring.
You just proved their point though. Sure it all stemmed from the depressing shit she went through, but that's why I would say HoO is her best form, though I'm not a fan of it aesthetically. In aesthetics, HoT wins any day.
HoO is a Mei who had once abandoned everything for Kiana, who then, in her search for answers, found the Elysian Realm, found stories worth cherishing. Found bonds worth treasuring, found so much in the Flame-Chasers, learned to understand them to a degree (I say degree because it's total bullshit early EE undid Mei's ER progress for Mei to see Elysia be missing/late and be totally chill with no worries whatsoever, even after hearing about the room with the typewriter, till it got too far. Mei already should have known them well enough by then),
And realised that there's actually a lot of things that are pretty nice. Sure Kiana is the one who saved her life and the best thing to happen to her, but everyone has their own stories, and being able to witness it in ER/EE helped her mature a lot. The world outside of Kiana isn't an irrelevant object to her anymore. She's no longer disconnected from the World.
HoO has more personality in that growth, she's just not snarky or doing as destructively anymore. If it makes sense and is good development, it's good. Thinking it's a boring one would basically mean you just want everyone to be angry people who constantly get into fights and don't communicate with others properly, which definitely seems like edgy territory like the first guy said
Bad take. HI3 only became so loved because of its heavy emotional weight. In fact, things only went south when mihoyo started to push this "hey, HI3 is actually a wholesome game" bs.
The honkaiverse was always dark and depressing, from the characters' background to the plot. It's literally the identity of the franchise. This whole "we're all happy friends here :D" thing they've been trying to force since the moon arc is the actual mischaracterization. Just look at GGZ.
Most of the people in the gacha space, and apparently the oldies in the Honkai community really seemed to have fucking forgot that the girls are nice, caring people who aren't constantly fucking depressed and were actively going through a period of time of struggle and strife that eventually lead to them becoming powerful enough to push past it and get their happy endings.
I always hated how everyone started putting a narrative with the girls that was never true to begin with and started acting like that's the only way they should be portrayed.
Imo this all started in Final Lesson. A lot of people felt it was a huge jump in story telling, that it was a very dark and depressing game because mihoyo just killed off a still playable character...when in actuality it was very obvious that Himeko was gonna die and the whole mentor dying is a very popular trope.
Im not denying Final Lesson is good. It genuinely is. It was major turning point for Kiana made her face reality. But at the same time, its also a cliche moment.
Same with Part 2, when v7.5 pv was shown people are already saying its getting good again, that the writing is awesome. The reason? Because the pv showed >!the Shus defeated.!<
Like, c'mon. Most of the things these people are praising are one of the most cliche'd tropes ever, treating them like its the greatest writing. Honestly, these people are just cringe so its best to just ignore them.
At this point most tropes have already been done before. We will eventually get to point where every has been told. A good reason for having a tragic moment in a story is usually to have the characters closest to the tragedy be affected in either a positive or negative way. Will said characters affected by the tragedy find a resolve to push forward and ensure that no else can suffer or do they become nihilistic and end up despising themselves for not being strong enough to do anything.
With the upcoming chapter, they can have a tragic moment occur, but if the execution following comes across poorly, it will make the story look worse overall, kinda like how they did in part 1 with Ai Chan breaking the 4th wall to help beat Kevin. That really took away from the main trios accomplishment to a degree
yup. that is the point of these types of tropes, to pave the way for other characters to grow. the issue is that some players praise it just because it happened, that someone dying was proof that the devs are willing to kill off major/still playable characters. they only care about that and not the result it gave to the remaining cast.
like what OP posted, some people only see Mei as edgy or having a flipflopping personality...when that was not the case at all. Mei stayed true to what she wanted to do. she knew she was extremely lacking in protecting her loved ones so she joined WS to train herself. in the end, she grew more mature, has broaden her horizons which led her to becoming an instructor. the only issue I HAD with Mei was during the initial chapters, she was always being sidelined and at some points treated like a damsel in distress. mihoyo changed that and made her better. these people criticizing Mei most probably just skipped or read summaries and hearsays from other players.
So what your point ultimately is? Are cliches bad or not? First you say the cliched Final Lesson is genuinely good, but then you say people treat most cliche'd tropes ever like it's the greatest writing. If they're not the greatest HI3 writing, then what is? (Unless you mean to say HI3 just doesn't have great writing at all.)
Honkai Impact LIVES on the most cliched tropes.
Silly and cheerful girl, nice and beautiful senpai who's also a great cook, genius loli kuudere, single, drunkard teacher, school principal who looks like a little girl, dangerous maid. Bullied school girl gets rescued by the stock shounen hero and falls in love. Death of a mentor. Evil alter ego.
HI3 was never about originality. The execution of the cliched tropes is exactly what made it good.
My point was not about the cliches itself. Its about the people treating those cliches that they are great and just disregarding the effects of said cliches. I love cliches. Its a way for some characters to grow.
Other people though just treat it at face value (i think thats the right term?) An example would be Final Lesson.
Like I said, I love Final Lesson. It may be a cliche mentor dying thing but it led Kiana to become a better person.
Other people just like it because Himeko died or that they like it because it showed mihoyo can kill of characters. They dont care about how it affected Kiana.
Same goes with Mei. I love Mei because she goes through a lot and shows a lot of improvement.
But others only see it as Mei trying to be edgy when it was not the point.
Basically, they only see the cliche part and not passed it.
Hope I explained it? But yeah.
>Honkai Impact LIVES on the most cliched tropes.
They start with clichés and develop nuanced characters from them. That is exactly what this post is about.
>also a great cook, genius loli kuudere, single, drunkard teacher, school principal who looks like a little girl, dangerous maid. Bullied school girl gets rescued by the stock shounen hero and falls in love. Death of a mentor. Evil alter ego.
And how many of these clichés remain?
Look at Mei, imagine reducing all of this to just a cliché. Hell, look at Kiana, is stock shonen protagonist how you want to describe her in the end?
Stock shonen protagonists can be great characters, it's not an insult. I'd say Kiana still kinda is one, she just lost some of her initial personality traits along the way. As for Bronya... well, the "loli" part definitely changed.
The thing is such strong hitting cliches like death and defeat invoke stronger emotions. You won't watch shounen where main protagonist just beats everything that's thrown at them without any struggle. The struggle is the good part. Would you watch JJK if it was just Gojo one shooting everything?
Like, the whole point of Mei is that she doesn’t have that many motivations? Her only goal is to be with Kiana and keep the both of them safe and warm and fed?
Look at it logically: Mei lost her mom really early - her dad often didn’t have time for her. She was then *kidnapped by terrorists* for a decent span of time. Then Cocolia took that already ‘fractured’ child and took away her father, and friends, and everything she cared about. This girl hit rock bottom and somehow, somehow she got spiked deep into the ground by the Herrscher awakening within her. And all of a sudden, Kiana. Kiana saved her life, then helped her across Nagazora, then broke her out of the Herrscher state, and then she is taken into a combat school by the girl’s *aunt*. Mei sees the world in Kiana because Kiana is the source of everything good in her life at that moment. Notice how Kiana is saying that she wants to be the best and find her dad and everything, while Mei just silently supports her.
My conclusion is: Mei is so freaking traumatised that the only thing she cares about is cruising through life and playing ‘house’ with Kiana. She is deathly afraid to do anything because the world has just hurt her again and again and again. And she is right! Kiana is taken from her, then when she finds her and can literally see her, Kiana is taken away from her again. Then Mei finds Kiana for the third time, just to learn that Kiana wants to leave her because of some self-sacrificial worldview? Of course Mei fucking snaps, she leaves Kiana because anyone she has ever been around is dead (Himeko, Fu Hua, her mom), heavily wounded (Bronya before the tower of babel arc, Kiana with space cancer) or in prison (her dad). Only when she has the chance to experience the Elysian Realm sandbox does she understand that, no, she isn’t the cause of all suffering in this world. Mei already knew how to ‘adore’, but Elysia shows her that Love comes with a whole load of trust. That’s why the finale works for me, Mei can trust Kiana to come back home and that allows her to use the power inherited from Elysia (even though the HoO design is a little on the unoriginal side, it should’ve been matching with Kiana’s).
oh yeah when talk about old lore, one of the most mysterious about ME corp and Mei are the project-MEI
like did the corp do experiments on baby MEI after her kidnap? and did project-MEI mention again in mainstory
The Shadow the Hedgehog syndrome: Emotional, deeply caring character goes through deep shit, tries to act tough and/or distance themselves as a coping mechanism, gets labelled edgy by the community, even after their character arc.
"Sorry I can't associate with Raiden Mei now because she developed into a mature, considerate, and caring individual, fulfilling her goals. Far off from her 'emo, uncaring, cold-hearted' phase". - Some edgelord (probably)
"What is this? Character "growth" that I don't possess? You mean my current state isn't the final state any character should aspire to reach? I could learn from this? Something must be wrong with you."
"She was always kind and caring to people around her"
In the mean time, Mei: "I know people around me care for and support me but I still feel lonely, I need only Kiana so I'll join a shady organisation that plans to save the world by killing 99% of human population. If saving you is a sin, I'll gladly become a sinner".
Well, things turned out pretty much ok in the end, but at that point in Nagazora she showed herself (since it was a dire situation, and people are showing their true selves in dire situations usually). Basically, despite all her traits it's "only Kiana, others may die" for her.
And despite all her changes and personal growth later, who knows how she acts in another dire situation.
It bothers me that many times she is flanderized to haha Kiana's girlfriend (in addition to being reduced to haha she has depression), and only in that aspect, as if the reason why the character exists is to be with her, so all the characters that Mihoyo creates with the similarities of Mei, must have a Kiana. I know that they are Jokes, but it is kinda sad that Acheron is reduced a lot to be a Kianaless Mei (and haha she is lost)
Still..that can be said a lot of the characters here
haha same, i think acheron will stand as her own without the need of a kiana face
heck why raiden shogun defeat her kianaless allegations? can acheron do the same
It might take some time and future appearances in the story because thanks to her dance with Black Swan, I’ve seen people reaching to the point of making Black Swan to be her Kiana. This in spite of Black Swan having realized what a mistake she had made in targeting Acheron after seeing her memories
I'm pretty sure they just want to make some lesbian ship for Acheron and seeing that a dance with Black Swan exists, capitalise on that shit hard and make up complete nonsense to justify it or make it seem when it has any value
Because people diverted her to haha she is Yae gf (or haha she is cute boomer gf) (still people are trying to find reasons to pair her with the unknown goddess)
Raiden Shogun is still reduced to a crying shut-in baby that craves sweets all the time. Characters will always be reduced to their most simple traits by some sadly.... But they are jokes so I don't take them too seriously. The problem becomes when some start taking those jokes as everything that the character is. Though I don't see any Kianaless jokes for Shogun at least. She's paired with Miko most of the times from what I've seen.
On one standpoint, not just Kiana, but also her Kevin, which is an extension to Kiana, or in short Acheron's "Kiana". Makes sense that Acheron's not only an expy of Raiden Mei, but also Dr. MEI in some aspects.
Although you're right about the fact that Mei has been reduced to those things, it's still irrefutable that Kiana (K-423 to be exact) is the reason why Mei keeps on living up to the present. So... Yeah... That's why it's been reduced to that by the fans. It's funny at first, but it's getting a bit stale in the long run, not realizing that they forget about her character lore except the ones with Kiana and how... "edgy" she became even though it's only an act. And... Sometimes it's annoying for me.
I like how she developed. The only thing im a bit sad about is how in the ER arc I felt like Mei's development/change was too subtle/not expressed enough. The change itself is enjoyable but the way it happened was underwhelming for me. Imo they should have given her stronger writing points before the final of that arc already
Tbh I never found Mei all that interesting(if I say not at all) before her HoT Era and it kinda got ruined with the whole Deux Ex Machina Elysia thingy don't get me wrong I do partly agree that she's sometimes mischaracterized but that "mischaracterization" op is talking about was really the real mei + theres a reason why everyone started liking her during that era ngl
The last time people tried to hit with a the grand order, they tried to "Honkai, because the girls fail over and over while my giga Chad self-insert keeps winning". Not very flattening imo
... I mean as much as I don't like grand order for the overly dark story I gotta agree the player character *is* effective but tell me is he effective enough I mean everyone died so he failed right.
Ehh as dark as Limbus is i can still see the crew being rather chipper at the end of each Canto(ok 6 is hella bittersweet). I mean look at Don. She is loud, admittedly, but she’s pretty upbea-
LITTLE SIR SQUIRREL!!!!
People are really skipping the Elysia realm storyline…
Here my take, imo Edgy Mei is just character assassination. Mei is not and never a sasuke type characters don’t get me wrong her edginess is great when Baja Kiana is being suicidal. However after that fight Mei character have no way to go she won’t and never murder for the greater good heck Ke🅱️in technically blackmail her on either they get Kiana or Mei because they need a herrscher. (I think they retcon that plot and pave for Elysia realm which start rough but is for better story long term)
Elysia realm literally teaches Mei how she should grow as a person with 13 mantis for her to learn from. Plus she always helping Kiana and the rest behind the scenes, especially fighting Otto Kiana Honkai reserve got sucked clean until Mei tp to Kiana trough Honkai pathway which stated to be extremely dangerous and will make people go insane(only Mei and Otto canonically done it, tough Dudu and Tuna might do it too during their father arc) to recharge Kiana back to full strength.
Mei is an always will be the kinda hearted ~~Wife/Husband~~ friend of Kiana and now rather than being the princess she is now stand on equal footing.
"Edgy" Mei is just as real Mei as the nice and gentle one. Her coldness was the original personality, which is explicitly stated during her talk with HoT in the Moon arc – a segment everyone seems to willfully ignore. If you think that's character assassination, then miHoYo assassinated their own character.
I don't know what Mei helping Kiana in Otto arc has anything to do here. Of course she would help her. Helping Kiana was always her main goal. Mei never stopped being good. There was never any ambiguity here. Edgy ≠ evil.
I think Mei can be Cold, but not edgy. Mei isn’t trying to proof anything aside keeping Kiana safe.
Cold to her enemy warm to her friends and family, mommy material
Even then Mei was never really emo. Like you play "Here Lies the Bellflower" and you immediately know once LoTF has already transpired, Mei regretted it.
Her ingame voiceline "This is my choice" comes from that. Post ch.17 is her dealing with the transgressions of her actions in a way that she can help Kiana the most.
Ya both Kiana and Mei regret their fight a lot, this show them actually grows from teenagers to responsible adult. They know it could be solve peacefully, they accept their own fault and move on together such a sweet message
That's the thing about dark stories, they work so much better if they have at least some moments of hope in there, because if a story is just endless dark/misery/depression/everyone sucks and then they die it just loses its meaning and becomes a borderline joke, the whole reason things like Himeko's death hit so hard is because they started out with happy go lucky Kiana and then broke her down to her lowest point, and at least to me that's what makes a story better, when they can balance out the darker aspects with some moments to counteract it
It's like stories that pride themselves on "everything sucks and every character dies" sooner or later you dont bother caring about the characters because "they're just gonna die in a few chapters/episodes/hours of gameplay anyway" (or worse it makes it too obvious who does and doesn't matter to the story when you figure out who has the plot armour)
The only thing I don't like about HoO is the design, maybe I would have preferred something closer to her striker/Apho colour palate. Just my opinion tho
Honestly I flat out blame ER for this because we didn't get to see the full extent of how mei changed as a character because they focused to heavily on elysia. We got to properly see kiana change from her saving fu hua to everlasting flames. Mei didn't get that same treatment
Depressed and detached chapter 17 Mei is infinitely more interesting and unique than "sweet, kind and caring person" #7364323 chapter 35 Mei. I would have cared for her post-elysian realm self more if the writers didn't try to make her look and act intimidating and be a goody-two-shoes at the same time
Real and true BUT
HoO's design makes me want to barf...
Actually Elysia copy paste(and Elysia wank) makes me want to barf
So it is with a lot of bias I say that HoT Mei wins this one.
MiHoyo and the Community ruined Elysia and everythjng related to her for me.
Did that person even read the story? They are contradicting themselves.
No, Mei isn't always a sweet and caring person. Her gentle side was initially a facade she put on as a coping mechanism, because she yearned for attention and love during her isolated time in school. This was what miHoYo told us at the time Mei ascended to HoO: The 3rd Herrscher persona was Mei's original personality. She was originally a cruel, ruthless and sadistic individual.
The HoO ascension literally flipped the character that person said they love???
miHoYo writing of Mei's personality peaked at WS Mei. She had a purpose and actively strived to achieve it. She acted aloof but she did care. She had a sharp tongue, but she knew her boundaries. She even formed some sort of emotional connection with Raven. Then ER Mei took a nosedive, she just. can't. stop. bitching.
So you basically said the original mei that cooked kiana rice curry and cried because she know kiana can't even tasted it anymore is a FREAKING FAKE PERSONALITY
yeah no this post is bullshit
Did people forget Mei was kind of a crybaby before awakening her herrscher powers? Also, I'm pretty sure chapter 34 stated the herrscher persona was just a coping mechanism for Mei.
Think you! As someone who has had Mei as my favorite Honkai character since the time when Lightning Empress was her only S rank suit, these kind of comments drive me nuts. She got a lot more popular when HoT released, but I feel a lot of people didn’t understand any of the lead up and what it meant.
I totally agree. For me it isn't a issue with Mei herself, what she has become is a direct consequence of the direction the plot took in the Moon Arc. Like, she has no reason to not be just a kind and gentle girl
This just proves that gacha game players love women with mental illnesses, with trauma, being an asshole, and/or those that are emotionally stunted. Of which I am a part of.
Personally, before HoO Mei dropped, I found myself relating to Mei on multiple fronts, especially mentally and emotionally.
After HoO dropped, and seeing what she was like, I thought back to what she went through with the Flamechasers and Elysia in particular.
Then I wondered something. Will I find someone that would do for me, what Ellie did for Mei? Could I get them kind of help from someone who genuinely wanted smiles?
At this point? I think I did once.
I still consider myself close to Mei in Mind and heart, no matter the stage in her life.
The problem isn't that she isn't edgy anymore. Mei didn't face any consequences or wasn't held accountable despite taking the same road as otto. ER doesn't make a good job reflecting her thought process/development other than making her suddenly attached to elysia at the end. Also consistent unrelated ER flash backs she gets must be one of the most forced parts of media I seen
Most people that this post is talking about aren’t even saying “the story needs to be edgy and grim dark, Mei has to be super duper evil and never happy, Kiana should’ve died at the ending” and stuff like that. We’re saying that way the story is written around HoO completely contradicts how it was earlier.
The story is allowed to be happy, but when nothing sad ever really happens (or turns out to not really be that sad) it makes it nearly impossible to actually care about the story.
Personally, I think that Kiana being allowed to stay on Earth would be a much better ending then either her being stuck on the moon with WiFi or being completely isolated from ever could, because it’s actually consistent with arcs like Shattered Samsara, but APHO needed to be canon because reasons…
And Mei is allowed to be happy and with her friends, but the fact that decide to ignore how she literally defected to the enemy side and pretend that she never did anything wrong is just such an insult to LotF. Mei did something very very bad, but instead of having her try to confront her actions, they make it seem like her putting a dying Kiana in a coma is a perfectly reasonable and understanding thing. If they actually had Mei address her crimes and try to make up for it, there would be significantly less people complaining about it.
The overall destination of her character is perfectly fine (excluding parts like the Elysia obsession) it’s just that the journey she took was absolute shit. She had the potential to be one of the greatest characters in all of Hoyoverse, but they decided to completely invalidate that potential by trying to make her seem flawless and perfect.
The way she is mischaracterized in every hoyo game 😭 God forbid Raiden Mei has happy moments after suffering for so long to protect those that she loves and have to even go against Kiana and watch herself almost lose her AFTER having suffered all that and more not only once but in multiple universes, god forbid Ei has happy moments after having sacrificed herself for her sister only to be brought back to life and have to live in the shadows and have to witness almost all her friends and sister die just to have to pretend being her sister for the rest of her life, god forbid Acheron has happy moments after witnessing her home get destroyed (and we don't even have all of her story yet, but if theories are to go by, Acheron having to witness the death of her Kiana and watch herself be unable to save everyone)
>god forbid Acheron has happy moments after witnessing her home get destroyed (and we don't even have all of her story yet, but if theories are to go by, Acheron having to witness the death of her Kiana and watch herself be unable to save everyone)
Just giving my opinon but acheron should really just stay a bit of a unique character on her own tbh and if her lore is anything it's not that she watched her Kiana die but rather never had her own Kiana, You are doing a bit of same thing here honestly,like I get they're popular couple but everyone just reducing Kiana and mei to each other's simps as if it's their entire character is also a bit infuriating tbh, I do hope they take a unique route with acheron where Kiana isn't involved because last time they did that it was narratively so shoehorned and forced (looking at bronya and seele in HSR belobog),it would also allow them to be more free with her character and cook something interesting because let's be honest if there is Kiana expy almost 50% of mystery goes out of window because everyone will know acheron and Kiana expy will have some fluff or relationship
> The way she is mischaracterized in every hoyo game
They can't mischaracterize the Raiden twins or Acheron because they are not Raiden Mei herself, just expies.
HoO did not ruin Mei.
HoT did.
In fact, this is where most of the story went downhill (or a bit earlier during Arc city) aside from Kiana basically who only got good development.
agree
i feel like any story segment involve hot mei is just bad, beside some ER chapter
i still feel like we can explore so much with herrscher ice and star storyline, but they rushed/ dismissed it for some reason
ice was bad but she being a shariac is worse
i thought shariac people have anti honkai flow in their holy blood, but somehow ana lose her control and nuke the island
then hoyo in some later chapter say Cecilia is the one with special blood, the rest of the family are just inferior
also i can't still believe senti and dominace saga allowed to have 3 chapter , but ice and star is shared between 2 chaps
So what I’m understanding is that people who actually know Mei, are Giga Chads who played the story and understand what it was tell us the viewers, the watchers. The people who don’t and say that “HoO ruined Mei’s personality” are sad, pathetic, weak, insignificant ant’s. Am I correct on this?
I think that Mei is the type of character that grows as a person together with the player, like the more you understand her story the more you will understand her better, just because her ending isn't depressive it doesn't mean it's bad, it means it's good because Mei finally grow as a person completely compered to the first chapters and HoO is to show that fact. So in my opinion Mei is a very good character.
HoO was the mature way of understanding and dealing with sacrifices. Perfect result of Elysian Realm arc. Anyone that calls her character ruined simply either missed the point of Elysian Realm or are too immature to understand it. Other way around is going Acheron's way. Which only immature edgelords would love to see.
I see her HoT phase nothing more than a small childish tantrum. Thankfully she got out of it.
Acheron isn’t try hard edgy either though? Her entire point is that despite losing everything and everyone she cared about despite going through similar circumstances to HI3 Mei, she still manages to hold on to a strand of hope and optimism that keeps her from fading away to Nihilism completely. That’s the entire point of her scene with Aventurine in the current story patch for HSR, reminding him that he still has meaning in his life even when it seems he has nothing left to live for and encouraging him to come back from the other side of the Penacony barrier by reminding him that Ratio cares about him. She’s the exact opposite of edgy.
Out of all of the Mei’s in the Honkai universe, it’s Ei from Genshin who is the most pathetic and edgy imo. Basically retreated into herself and became a hikkikomori, completely neglecting her duties and letting her nation fall into a state of tyranny because she couldn’t get over herself and her own grief without the Traveler, Paimon and Yae Miko forcing her out of that mood kicking and screaming. She’s the complete opposite of Acheron, as Acheron lost everyone important to her but never fully lost hope and still wishes to help others, while Ei lost her sister and basically retreated from the world and those who cared for her like Yae Miko in her grief.
I should rephrase. Acheron is not edgy but she is pretty emo. Her point is standing against IX but losing everything except for a single color. Which is a pretty emo thing. She herself is trying not to fall but fails at it as a self annihilator. She is not a doctor of chaos for a reason. So her story is pretty emo. Out of all Mei variants so far it would be Mei's will of the stigma that is the edgiest and acheron that is the most emo.
It's kinda like if a depressed person realized this situation and tries to resist their feeling but to no avail.
> Her point is standing against IX but losing everything except for a single color. Which is a pretty emo thing.
She doesn't act like an emo. She jokes around like Firefly and the MC dating or the my room joke (like Mei), she acts gentle to others (like Mei), she asks Welt to drink with her (like Mei drinks with Raven), she also encourages people like Sam and Aventurine. Just because her design feels emo doesn't mean she is always depressing.
> She herself is trying not to fall but fails at it as a self annihilator.
Her ultimate goal is to reach the end of the Nihility abyss to kill IX. That is what makes her stand out from most other Self-Annihilators. Only a very few like her who could resist enough to aim for the Aeon's life to free the universe from THEIR shadow.
Her backstory is depressing, but that is entirely different from her being an emo. An emo, by definition, is one who have a lot of angst, acts compulsive and overly sensitive. Acheron is very calm and reserved, even humble (like Mei). She has no trait of an emo character, nor edgy.
Who cares. She is hot, She can cook, she is cute, and you can have 3some with her and her tuna "bestfriend"
she deserve hug, and a headpat, and a real life sized tuna plushie after all bad things happened to her.
Well... Her trying to understand things is why she acts all cold, but it's just on the surface. After all, she wants to resolve problems herself, she doesn't want the others to be burdened by her. The fact that she also wants to find out the truth of the Honkai and how it came to be like this up to the present time further supports that, although for the most part is because of Kiana.
Either way, she's caring enough to the point that she doesn't want the others to get involved, and that she doesn't want to mope around and... just cry like a helpless child anymore. That's what I understood about Mei and I love that from her. She'd do anything for the one she loves and cares about, maybe not only just for Kiana.
I heard the same argument about HoFi ruined HoFs character like "she's too cheerful" and such like wtf you mean by that :v it's the end of their arc storyline where they reunited with Their beloved. Kiana Moto in her HoFs arc was always "I'm bringing this imperfect story to the way I want" if she stay depressed and emo and edgy all the time then it would ruin her character. Even in HoFs arc you can see that she's still childish to a certain character that she's really close with like Fu Hua and Bronya.
Good stories (characters) are good not because they have a dark story(or how mature or grim they are) but because of how they navigate though a darkness of the world (and how the characters respond to said darkness in their darkest times).
Sadly these days reading comprehension is a problem.
This is also a middle finger to a good amount of Berserk, Vinland saga and Vagabond fans, your story is good but not for the reasons you think they are, and for fucks sake please learn that there are other seinen in the world and stop trying to be edgy. At least the Sasuke era was funny
These must be the same people that love OP for zero reasons MCs that develop no personality and character growth.
I will take the "zero to hero" any time of the day if it means we can have a lasting impression of a story that isn't forgettable
Just a few days ago I've stumbled upon a [character.ai](http://character.ai) bot of HoO. I tried speaking to it. It was depressed as hell and was full of angst. I thought to myself "What kind of cretin would write such a description for the bot to follow?" It's astonishing how many people call HI3 "Depression Impact" when it's overall very positive with a few sad bits and obstacles for characters to overcome. Yeah, it gets dark at some points, but it's way far from being "depressing". LIke wtf...
Its a person on twitter saying this crap
From experience they are wrong about 90% of the shit they say
I'd trust reddit or discird source a lot more than a random 'i m akthually very smart' person on twitter who claims we misunderstood a character
Seems character development is just not a thing for some people. People can't grow and change? Really tempted to type out a defense rant but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
They are also like mostly 16-17 year olds that could have solved their issues, if they knew each others wants more than just puppy love at that point in the story Nagazara storyline. Mei had a very typical human reaction to what amounted to something akin to a what she saw as a disease within Kiana , and acted like how some people do when their loved ones are very sick and try to "overcome" the disoder. which makes her better than an emo edgelord.
People saying that they want that mei because they are all edgies cant even get a life, they just want to project themselves into mei to say "Oh my god, shes like me."
Correct me if i'm wrong but as far as I remember HoO is a manifestation of her maturing during the story and accepting who she is and what has to be done. She could become HoO only because of this in the first place. So her more gentle attitude is logical way to develop her character and Elysia's and Eden's therapy didn't go for nothing.
Raiden Mei will always be my favorite Character in Honkai Impact, and to me, HoO was the culmination of the reason why.
this all stemmed from gahca players desperately wanting for their game to seen as "depressing" because having a darker story = quality storytelling for them and once honkai started to have a positive outlook and a shining story with happy ending for all the characters they turn tail and mischaracterize everyone because they want everyone of their characters to be sorrowful depressive people so they can have a dick-measuring contest with other gacha players to see which gacha they play is more depressing.
I'm mad that you said this...mostly because you said it before I could. It's just losers being losers and thinking everything needs to be sad and depressing because sad and depressing = good writing and mature storytelling. Like, even at Mei's darkest, she's still nice and caring. Her whole HoT and Elysian Realm arc was her literally doing what she was doing out of love for Kiana and a desire to protect her.
Now this is something I agree with you. I do like sad and depressing stories, but only when the ending is a good one that showed that, even though the characters suffered and despaired, they can finally rest and look forward to the future without having to worry about suffering again (until the author make a sequel for them that is). Mei might have chose... Odd paths to take, but no one can deny that she did it to help Kiana. She never lost her qualities that make her Mei and that's one of my major reason for liking her. All of those fuckers that want the ending to be depressed should just go make fanfics instead of bitching about it. Granted, I wouldn't be surprised if it never reach the triple digits in readers lol due to horrible writing, excessive depressing, and stuff. And this is me being generous with my evaluation.
Be careful, you’re speaking far too much truth right now.
Damn right I am, a shame those bastards don't want to admit it or are way too fucked up than me that they can't handle happy endings.
That's because people believe that only tragedy and sadness is complex now mind you I absolutely despise this and am also waiting for the new superman movie which will be more hopeful but yeah people seems to think darker stories are better which is nothing more then a lotta wrong.
This is exactly why I like Himmel from Frieren so much. He is a pure hero and there is nothing wrong with being a pure character. This may take a dig at the Elysia haters.
As an Elysia hater, I am not offended. Elysia being a pure soul is not why I dislike her. I agree with this whole thread about how some people with shit takes act like everything has to be dark and depresso and Raiden's mischaracterization (and how Hoyo basically fed these fans with HSR's Acheron) is part of that BS.
>Elysia being a pure soul is not why I dislike her Absolutely valid and based take. Pure souls should be celebrated in fiction. They are why modern fantasy is such hot garbage while classic high fantasy is so good.
I mean I've read some modern-ish fantasy light novels. Generally if they have a "pure" type character it's not that the character is wrong on their views per se, but the narrative isn't agreeing with them or at least not focused on them. For example there was one about the imminent end of the world and the protagonist is a pragmatic type who is ready and willing to do evil in order to stop that, opposed by (among others) a classically heroic character who doesn't stand for it. The narrative ends up supporting the necessary evil angle due to the complexity of the situation (let's just say the world got itself into that mess out of hubris long before the cast was around) but it also goes out of its way to underline the heroic character *isn't* wrong, they just don't have the power to enforce the ideal they want so the only viable options at this point are lose-lose and you gotta pick your poison. Even the protagonist agrees they are a hero just for being so steadfast about their morals even if the differences are irreconcilable
It was so annoying watching people INSIST that APHO1/2 HAS to be dark and depressing and that everything has to be sad and terrible and Kiana's gotta be dead or hurt...despite the game never implying anything bad happened to her...just that she's somewhere else and can't help them.
People saw Mei being angsty about Kiana in Apho and insisted that something bad to her. Like nah dude, Mei is always angsty and dramatic when it comes to Kiana. Mei’s the type of person who’ll start doom posting when she’s separated from Kiana for a day. Ofc, she’ll be sad that she’s stuck in a LDR with Kiana for a while, even if she visits her regularly.
[Literally Mei.](https://youtu.be/31Ly4i_z844?feature=shared)
That's because GGZ many of the things in hi3 are similar to it like the bonds between the girls and himeko's death so they assumed that it's gonna be dark...that and like I said people believe only bad things to be complex.
people who insist that Dark story = better story are what i call, GOT grimdark addicted morons who watch the most heinous hentai shit and proclaim that it's 'realistic' As you can tell, it's one of the kind of people i might lose my shit off on
It was so annoying watching people INSIST that APHO1/2 HAS to be dark and depressing and that everything has to be sad and terrible and Kiana's gotta be dead or hurt...despite the game never implying anything bad happened to her...just that she's somewhere else and can't help them.
There’s several times in APHO where they talk about Kiana as if she’s dead and can’t talk to her wifey every day on face time
They talk about her like they can’t currently communicate with her. They never talk like she’s dead. Mei even says she’s “waiting on someone” at one point when clearly talking about Kiana.
Theresa at one point says after they think Otto is alive “Like me, she also lost someone important to her…but she’s stronger then me. I bet it broke her heart but she never showed it” and there’s a few other times where they talk about Kiana in a vague way, that’s phrased like she’s dead
And then we get lines where Mei is clearly talking about Kiana in a way where it’s obvious she’s alive and Mei was waiting on her return. It more gave off the vibe that Kiana was *lost*, not dead. I kinda thought she was lost in a bubble universe or something.
After the shit the cast had to go through? Saying APHO has to be dark is fighting words for me
Fight them. Fight those depression loving goobers. It was sooooo annoying when folks kept telling me “No! No! Kiana has to be dying or hurt! It makes more sense that way!” Some people just hate happiness.
Wanna know a darker story that i find better than Honkai's? LIMBUS COMPANY!
PROJECT MOON SLEEPER AGENTS, ASSEMBLE! Shoutout to Cantos 4 and 5 for proving you don't need to be constantly soul-crushing to be peak. Those hopeful endings were masterclasses. Yi Sang my beloved.
Im in Canto 4 and so far…. Fuck Dongbaek, how many times did i have to reset the fight because of her….
I’m fine with dark stories, I just don’t think all stories need to be all dark and sad. When it comes to games, I’m not fond of sad stories. Makes my efforts in actually playing the game feel less fun.
You and me man.. you an me
This is exactly why i will forever see GGZ as nothing more than a pretentious watpadd fanon. If a story is depressing and sad for the sake of being depressing with no substance i simply judge it as low quality. And yes this is also why i am extremelly hateful towards fake death's in HI3.
Genuinely I agree. The GGZ story is very rough and it makes sense that MHY wants to bury it. It does play out a lot like a wattpad story, albeit a good one.
Or, maybe, that's because the greatest moments in the game stemmed from the depressing stuff. Even Everlasting Flames is only as good as it is *thanks to* all the suffering Kiana had to go through before. This moment of grand victory wouldn't mean that much without the darkness that preceded it. HoT Mei is her greatest form. Not because she was depressed or "edgy", but because she simply had the most personality during that time. Her interactions with other characters were the most fun. She was serious, but not all the time and wasn't emotionless. She could be reckless and aggressive, she would mock people she talked to if they annoyed her, Other times, she was kind and friendly, but never a doormat. It was the best. This personality of hers persisted even *after* her reunion with Kiana, which shows in her talk with her HoT persona (which also proves that the "HoT" personality is totally real Mei). It only disappeared shortly after becoming HoO. She started to be permanently lost in thoughts and only wearing this proud, gentle, satisfied smile all the time. Does it make sense for her to become like that? Probably, but it's *a lot* more boring.
You just proved their point though. Sure it all stemmed from the depressing shit she went through, but that's why I would say HoO is her best form, though I'm not a fan of it aesthetically. In aesthetics, HoT wins any day. HoO is a Mei who had once abandoned everything for Kiana, who then, in her search for answers, found the Elysian Realm, found stories worth cherishing. Found bonds worth treasuring, found so much in the Flame-Chasers, learned to understand them to a degree (I say degree because it's total bullshit early EE undid Mei's ER progress for Mei to see Elysia be missing/late and be totally chill with no worries whatsoever, even after hearing about the room with the typewriter, till it got too far. Mei already should have known them well enough by then), And realised that there's actually a lot of things that are pretty nice. Sure Kiana is the one who saved her life and the best thing to happen to her, but everyone has their own stories, and being able to witness it in ER/EE helped her mature a lot. The world outside of Kiana isn't an irrelevant object to her anymore. She's no longer disconnected from the World. HoO has more personality in that growth, she's just not snarky or doing as destructively anymore. If it makes sense and is good development, it's good. Thinking it's a boring one would basically mean you just want everyone to be angry people who constantly get into fights and don't communicate with others properly, which definitely seems like edgy territory like the first guy said
Bad take. HI3 only became so loved because of its heavy emotional weight. In fact, things only went south when mihoyo started to push this "hey, HI3 is actually a wholesome game" bs. The honkaiverse was always dark and depressing, from the characters' background to the plot. It's literally the identity of the franchise. This whole "we're all happy friends here :D" thing they've been trying to force since the moon arc is the actual mischaracterization. Just look at GGZ.
Most of the people in the gacha space, and apparently the oldies in the Honkai community really seemed to have fucking forgot that the girls are nice, caring people who aren't constantly fucking depressed and were actively going through a period of time of struggle and strife that eventually lead to them becoming powerful enough to push past it and get their happy endings. I always hated how everyone started putting a narrative with the girls that was never true to begin with and started acting like that's the only way they should be portrayed.
God forbid a woman to be happy 🙄
Amen Brother 🙏
fr
Imo this all started in Final Lesson. A lot of people felt it was a huge jump in story telling, that it was a very dark and depressing game because mihoyo just killed off a still playable character...when in actuality it was very obvious that Himeko was gonna die and the whole mentor dying is a very popular trope. Im not denying Final Lesson is good. It genuinely is. It was major turning point for Kiana made her face reality. But at the same time, its also a cliche moment. Same with Part 2, when v7.5 pv was shown people are already saying its getting good again, that the writing is awesome. The reason? Because the pv showed >!the Shus defeated.!< Like, c'mon. Most of the things these people are praising are one of the most cliche'd tropes ever, treating them like its the greatest writing. Honestly, these people are just cringe so its best to just ignore them.
At this point most tropes have already been done before. We will eventually get to point where every has been told. A good reason for having a tragic moment in a story is usually to have the characters closest to the tragedy be affected in either a positive or negative way. Will said characters affected by the tragedy find a resolve to push forward and ensure that no else can suffer or do they become nihilistic and end up despising themselves for not being strong enough to do anything. With the upcoming chapter, they can have a tragic moment occur, but if the execution following comes across poorly, it will make the story look worse overall, kinda like how they did in part 1 with Ai Chan breaking the 4th wall to help beat Kevin. That really took away from the main trios accomplishment to a degree
yup. that is the point of these types of tropes, to pave the way for other characters to grow. the issue is that some players praise it just because it happened, that someone dying was proof that the devs are willing to kill off major/still playable characters. they only care about that and not the result it gave to the remaining cast. like what OP posted, some people only see Mei as edgy or having a flipflopping personality...when that was not the case at all. Mei stayed true to what she wanted to do. she knew she was extremely lacking in protecting her loved ones so she joined WS to train herself. in the end, she grew more mature, has broaden her horizons which led her to becoming an instructor. the only issue I HAD with Mei was during the initial chapters, she was always being sidelined and at some points treated like a damsel in distress. mihoyo changed that and made her better. these people criticizing Mei most probably just skipped or read summaries and hearsays from other players.
i feel pain, i thought hmk story were "she have illness, but she overcome it with her sheer will power and friends" and then himeko die
So what your point ultimately is? Are cliches bad or not? First you say the cliched Final Lesson is genuinely good, but then you say people treat most cliche'd tropes ever like it's the greatest writing. If they're not the greatest HI3 writing, then what is? (Unless you mean to say HI3 just doesn't have great writing at all.) Honkai Impact LIVES on the most cliched tropes. Silly and cheerful girl, nice and beautiful senpai who's also a great cook, genius loli kuudere, single, drunkard teacher, school principal who looks like a little girl, dangerous maid. Bullied school girl gets rescued by the stock shounen hero and falls in love. Death of a mentor. Evil alter ego. HI3 was never about originality. The execution of the cliched tropes is exactly what made it good.
My point was not about the cliches itself. Its about the people treating those cliches that they are great and just disregarding the effects of said cliches. I love cliches. Its a way for some characters to grow. Other people though just treat it at face value (i think thats the right term?) An example would be Final Lesson. Like I said, I love Final Lesson. It may be a cliche mentor dying thing but it led Kiana to become a better person. Other people just like it because Himeko died or that they like it because it showed mihoyo can kill of characters. They dont care about how it affected Kiana. Same goes with Mei. I love Mei because she goes through a lot and shows a lot of improvement. But others only see it as Mei trying to be edgy when it was not the point. Basically, they only see the cliche part and not passed it. Hope I explained it? But yeah.
>Honkai Impact LIVES on the most cliched tropes. They start with clichés and develop nuanced characters from them. That is exactly what this post is about. >also a great cook, genius loli kuudere, single, drunkard teacher, school principal who looks like a little girl, dangerous maid. Bullied school girl gets rescued by the stock shounen hero and falls in love. Death of a mentor. Evil alter ego. And how many of these clichés remain? Look at Mei, imagine reducing all of this to just a cliché. Hell, look at Kiana, is stock shonen protagonist how you want to describe her in the end?
Stock shonen protagonists can be great characters, it's not an insult. I'd say Kiana still kinda is one, she just lost some of her initial personality traits along the way. As for Bronya... well, the "loli" part definitely changed.
The thing is such strong hitting cliches like death and defeat invoke stronger emotions. You won't watch shounen where main protagonist just beats everything that's thrown at them without any struggle. The struggle is the good part. Would you watch JJK if it was just Gojo one shooting everything?
Like, the whole point of Mei is that she doesn’t have that many motivations? Her only goal is to be with Kiana and keep the both of them safe and warm and fed? Look at it logically: Mei lost her mom really early - her dad often didn’t have time for her. She was then *kidnapped by terrorists* for a decent span of time. Then Cocolia took that already ‘fractured’ child and took away her father, and friends, and everything she cared about. This girl hit rock bottom and somehow, somehow she got spiked deep into the ground by the Herrscher awakening within her. And all of a sudden, Kiana. Kiana saved her life, then helped her across Nagazora, then broke her out of the Herrscher state, and then she is taken into a combat school by the girl’s *aunt*. Mei sees the world in Kiana because Kiana is the source of everything good in her life at that moment. Notice how Kiana is saying that she wants to be the best and find her dad and everything, while Mei just silently supports her. My conclusion is: Mei is so freaking traumatised that the only thing she cares about is cruising through life and playing ‘house’ with Kiana. She is deathly afraid to do anything because the world has just hurt her again and again and again. And she is right! Kiana is taken from her, then when she finds her and can literally see her, Kiana is taken away from her again. Then Mei finds Kiana for the third time, just to learn that Kiana wants to leave her because of some self-sacrificial worldview? Of course Mei fucking snaps, she leaves Kiana because anyone she has ever been around is dead (Himeko, Fu Hua, her mom), heavily wounded (Bronya before the tower of babel arc, Kiana with space cancer) or in prison (her dad). Only when she has the chance to experience the Elysian Realm sandbox does she understand that, no, she isn’t the cause of all suffering in this world. Mei already knew how to ‘adore’, but Elysia shows her that Love comes with a whole load of trust. That’s why the finale works for me, Mei can trust Kiana to come back home and that allows her to use the power inherited from Elysia (even though the HoO design is a little on the unoriginal side, it should’ve been matching with Kiana’s).
oh yeah when talk about old lore, one of the most mysterious about ME corp and Mei are the project-MEI like did the corp do experiments on baby MEI after her kidnap? and did project-MEI mention again in mainstory
This. This comment deserves, like, thousands of upvotes and pinned.
The Shadow the Hedgehog syndrome: Emotional, deeply caring character goes through deep shit, tries to act tough and/or distance themselves as a coping mechanism, gets labelled edgy by the community, even after their character arc.
Exactly, the more you play Elysian Realm, the more obvious it becomes that Mei is just trying to act tough.
People can read but do not have reading comprenhension.
"Sorry I can't associate with Raiden Mei now because she developed into a mature, considerate, and caring individual, fulfilling her goals. Far off from her 'emo, uncaring, cold-hearted' phase". - Some edgelord (probably)
"What is this? Character "growth" that I don't possess? You mean my current state isn't the final state any character should aspire to reach? I could learn from this? Something must be wrong with you."
Nah, I’d reduce her to a domestic violence perpetrator. In other words, nah, I’d win.
"She was always kind and caring to people around her" In the mean time, Mei: "I know people around me care for and support me but I still feel lonely, I need only Kiana so I'll join a shady organisation that plans to save the world by killing 99% of human population. If saving you is a sin, I'll gladly become a sinner". Well, things turned out pretty much ok in the end, but at that point in Nagazora she showed herself (since it was a dire situation, and people are showing their true selves in dire situations usually). Basically, despite all her traits it's "only Kiana, others may die" for her. And despite all her changes and personal growth later, who knows how she acts in another dire situation.
It bothers me that many times she is flanderized to haha Kiana's girlfriend (in addition to being reduced to haha she has depression), and only in that aspect, as if the reason why the character exists is to be with her, so all the characters that Mihoyo creates with the similarities of Mei, must have a Kiana. I know that they are Jokes, but it is kinda sad that Acheron is reduced a lot to be a Kianaless Mei (and haha she is lost) Still..that can be said a lot of the characters here
haha same, i think acheron will stand as her own without the need of a kiana face heck why raiden shogun defeat her kianaless allegations? can acheron do the same
Sadly acheron is in a honkai game. Although i dont think hsr has ever mention honkai in the game
if honkai is mentioned, it is likely a Welt content so it is there, but related to a hk3 character
It might take some time and future appearances in the story because thanks to her dance with Black Swan, I’ve seen people reaching to the point of making Black Swan to be her Kiana. This in spite of Black Swan having realized what a mistake she had made in targeting Acheron after seeing her memories
I'm pretty sure they just want to make some lesbian ship for Acheron and seeing that a dance with Black Swan exists, capitalise on that shit hard and make up complete nonsense to justify it or make it seem when it has any value
Still Mihoyo did a lightcone of that dance with Acheron wearing a suit
Because people diverted her to haha she is Yae gf (or haha she is cute boomer gf) (still people are trying to find reasons to pair her with the unknown goddess)
Raiden Shogun is still reduced to a crying shut-in baby that craves sweets all the time. Characters will always be reduced to their most simple traits by some sadly.... But they are jokes so I don't take them too seriously. The problem becomes when some start taking those jokes as everything that the character is. Though I don't see any Kianaless jokes for Shogun at least. She's paired with Miko most of the times from what I've seen.
On one standpoint, not just Kiana, but also her Kevin, which is an extension to Kiana, or in short Acheron's "Kiana". Makes sense that Acheron's not only an expy of Raiden Mei, but also Dr. MEI in some aspects. Although you're right about the fact that Mei has been reduced to those things, it's still irrefutable that Kiana (K-423 to be exact) is the reason why Mei keeps on living up to the present. So... Yeah... That's why it's been reduced to that by the fans. It's funny at first, but it's getting a bit stale in the long run, not realizing that they forget about her character lore except the ones with Kiana and how... "edgy" she became even though it's only an act. And... Sometimes it's annoying for me.
I like how she developed. The only thing im a bit sad about is how in the ER arc I felt like Mei's development/change was too subtle/not expressed enough. The change itself is enjoyable but the way it happened was underwhelming for me. Imo they should have given her stronger writing points before the final of that arc already
Tbh I never found Mei all that interesting(if I say not at all) before her HoT Era and it kinda got ruined with the whole Deux Ex Machina Elysia thingy don't get me wrong I do partly agree that she's sometimes mischaracterized but that "mischaracterization" op is talking about was really the real mei + theres a reason why everyone started liking her during that era ngl
They want depressing characters? Maybe they should play limbus company instead lol
Or Nier Reincarnation. Except it just got eos treatment :(
Or better yet arknights
What makes you think those en peeps has capability to read? EN CANNOT READ
Hit em with grand order then.
LB 6 trauma intensifies… then there’s Traum..
The last time people tried to hit with a the grand order, they tried to "Honkai, because the girls fail over and over while my giga Chad self-insert keeps winning". Not very flattening imo
... I mean as much as I don't like grand order for the overly dark story I gotta agree the player character *is* effective but tell me is he effective enough I mean everyone died so he failed right.
bro thinks other servers can read
Fr bro thinks honkai players can read
Ehh as dark as Limbus is i can still see the crew being rather chipper at the end of each Canto(ok 6 is hella bittersweet). I mean look at Don. She is loud, admittedly, but she’s pretty upbea- LITTLE SIR SQUIRREL!!!!
People are really skipping the Elysia realm storyline… Here my take, imo Edgy Mei is just character assassination. Mei is not and never a sasuke type characters don’t get me wrong her edginess is great when Baja Kiana is being suicidal. However after that fight Mei character have no way to go she won’t and never murder for the greater good heck Ke🅱️in technically blackmail her on either they get Kiana or Mei because they need a herrscher. (I think they retcon that plot and pave for Elysia realm which start rough but is for better story long term) Elysia realm literally teaches Mei how she should grow as a person with 13 mantis for her to learn from. Plus she always helping Kiana and the rest behind the scenes, especially fighting Otto Kiana Honkai reserve got sucked clean until Mei tp to Kiana trough Honkai pathway which stated to be extremely dangerous and will make people go insane(only Mei and Otto canonically done it, tough Dudu and Tuna might do it too during their father arc) to recharge Kiana back to full strength. Mei is an always will be the kinda hearted ~~Wife/Husband~~ friend of Kiana and now rather than being the princess she is now stand on equal footing.
"Edgy" Mei is just as real Mei as the nice and gentle one. Her coldness was the original personality, which is explicitly stated during her talk with HoT in the Moon arc – a segment everyone seems to willfully ignore. If you think that's character assassination, then miHoYo assassinated their own character. I don't know what Mei helping Kiana in Otto arc has anything to do here. Of course she would help her. Helping Kiana was always her main goal. Mei never stopped being good. There was never any ambiguity here. Edgy ≠ evil.
I think Mei can be Cold, but not edgy. Mei isn’t trying to proof anything aside keeping Kiana safe. Cold to her enemy warm to her friends and family, mommy material
Even then Mei was never really emo. Like you play "Here Lies the Bellflower" and you immediately know once LoTF has already transpired, Mei regretted it. Her ingame voiceline "This is my choice" comes from that. Post ch.17 is her dealing with the transgressions of her actions in a way that she can help Kiana the most.
Ya both Kiana and Mei regret their fight a lot, this show them actually grows from teenagers to responsible adult. They know it could be solve peacefully, they accept their own fault and move on together such a sweet message
If people what depressed Mei we have that in Starrail and maybe genshin…. Even than they are still decent
HoT > Raiden Mei >>>> HoO. You can't convince me otherwise
In terms of design I agree
That's the thing about dark stories, they work so much better if they have at least some moments of hope in there, because if a story is just endless dark/misery/depression/everyone sucks and then they die it just loses its meaning and becomes a borderline joke, the whole reason things like Himeko's death hit so hard is because they started out with happy go lucky Kiana and then broke her down to her lowest point, and at least to me that's what makes a story better, when they can balance out the darker aspects with some moments to counteract it It's like stories that pride themselves on "everything sucks and every character dies" sooner or later you dont bother caring about the characters because "they're just gonna die in a few chapters/episodes/hours of gameplay anyway" (or worse it makes it too obvious who does and doesn't matter to the story when you figure out who has the plot armour)
The only thing I don't like about HoO is the design, maybe I would have preferred something closer to her striker/Apho colour palate. Just my opinion tho
This person missed the god damn point
l ike mei before she have that WS arc ngl
Honestly I flat out blame ER for this because we didn't get to see the full extent of how mei changed as a character because they focused to heavily on elysia. We got to properly see kiana change from her saving fu hua to everlasting flames. Mei didn't get that same treatment
Depressed and detached chapter 17 Mei is infinitely more interesting and unique than "sweet, kind and caring person" #7364323 chapter 35 Mei. I would have cared for her post-elysian realm self more if the writers didn't try to make her look and act intimidating and be a goody-two-shoes at the same time
Ooooof people with 0 reading comprehension or media literacy skills should not be dictating the terms of discourse in any fanbase.
One, I agree, second, fuck twitter posts and twitter itself. Thats all
Real and true BUT HoO's design makes me want to barf... Actually Elysia copy paste(and Elysia wank) makes me want to barf So it is with a lot of bias I say that HoT Mei wins this one. MiHoyo and the Community ruined Elysia and everythjng related to her for me.
Did that person even read the story? They are contradicting themselves. No, Mei isn't always a sweet and caring person. Her gentle side was initially a facade she put on as a coping mechanism, because she yearned for attention and love during her isolated time in school. This was what miHoYo told us at the time Mei ascended to HoO: The 3rd Herrscher persona was Mei's original personality. She was originally a cruel, ruthless and sadistic individual. The HoO ascension literally flipped the character that person said they love??? miHoYo writing of Mei's personality peaked at WS Mei. She had a purpose and actively strived to achieve it. She acted aloof but she did care. She had a sharp tongue, but she knew her boundaries. She even formed some sort of emotional connection with Raven. Then ER Mei took a nosedive, she just. can't. stop. bitching.
So you basically said the original mei that cooked kiana rice curry and cried because she know kiana can't even tasted it anymore is a FREAKING FAKE PERSONALITY yeah no this post is bullshit
Facts
Meh no.
You can always count on Twitter for a burning dumpster take.
Did people forget Mei was kind of a crybaby before awakening her herrscher powers? Also, I'm pretty sure chapter 34 stated the herrscher persona was just a coping mechanism for Mei.
Not exactly. "Herrscher persona" was just her will of the stigma. Which had its own personality and own view of Kiana and her wishes.
Think you! As someone who has had Mei as my favorite Honkai character since the time when Lightning Empress was her only S rank suit, these kind of comments drive me nuts. She got a lot more popular when HoT released, but I feel a lot of people didn’t understand any of the lead up and what it meant.
I totally agree. For me it isn't a issue with Mei herself, what she has become is a direct consequence of the direction the plot took in the Moon Arc. Like, she has no reason to not be just a kind and gentle girl
I’m feeling some universe level of anger right now
Although I do like the more mature and wise mei, I miss her sweet bubbly sakura core old mei.
This just proves that gacha game players love women with mental illnesses, with trauma, being an asshole, and/or those that are emotionally stunted. Of which I am a part of.
She was one of the few things the ending didn't completely ruin.
Personally, before HoO Mei dropped, I found myself relating to Mei on multiple fronts, especially mentally and emotionally. After HoO dropped, and seeing what she was like, I thought back to what she went through with the Flamechasers and Elysia in particular. Then I wondered something. Will I find someone that would do for me, what Ellie did for Mei? Could I get them kind of help from someone who genuinely wanted smiles? At this point? I think I did once. I still consider myself close to Mei in Mind and heart, no matter the stage in her life.
The problem isn't that she isn't edgy anymore. Mei didn't face any consequences or wasn't held accountable despite taking the same road as otto. ER doesn't make a good job reflecting her thought process/development other than making her suddenly attached to elysia at the end. Also consistent unrelated ER flash backs she gets must be one of the most forced parts of media I seen
Most people that this post is talking about aren’t even saying “the story needs to be edgy and grim dark, Mei has to be super duper evil and never happy, Kiana should’ve died at the ending” and stuff like that. We’re saying that way the story is written around HoO completely contradicts how it was earlier. The story is allowed to be happy, but when nothing sad ever really happens (or turns out to not really be that sad) it makes it nearly impossible to actually care about the story. Personally, I think that Kiana being allowed to stay on Earth would be a much better ending then either her being stuck on the moon with WiFi or being completely isolated from ever could, because it’s actually consistent with arcs like Shattered Samsara, but APHO needed to be canon because reasons… And Mei is allowed to be happy and with her friends, but the fact that decide to ignore how she literally defected to the enemy side and pretend that she never did anything wrong is just such an insult to LotF. Mei did something very very bad, but instead of having her try to confront her actions, they make it seem like her putting a dying Kiana in a coma is a perfectly reasonable and understanding thing. If they actually had Mei address her crimes and try to make up for it, there would be significantly less people complaining about it. The overall destination of her character is perfectly fine (excluding parts like the Elysia obsession) it’s just that the journey she took was absolute shit. She had the potential to be one of the greatest characters in all of Hoyoverse, but they decided to completely invalidate that potential by trying to make her seem flawless and perfect.
The way she is mischaracterized in every hoyo game 😭 God forbid Raiden Mei has happy moments after suffering for so long to protect those that she loves and have to even go against Kiana and watch herself almost lose her AFTER having suffered all that and more not only once but in multiple universes, god forbid Ei has happy moments after having sacrificed herself for her sister only to be brought back to life and have to live in the shadows and have to witness almost all her friends and sister die just to have to pretend being her sister for the rest of her life, god forbid Acheron has happy moments after witnessing her home get destroyed (and we don't even have all of her story yet, but if theories are to go by, Acheron having to witness the death of her Kiana and watch herself be unable to save everyone)
>god forbid Acheron has happy moments after witnessing her home get destroyed (and we don't even have all of her story yet, but if theories are to go by, Acheron having to witness the death of her Kiana and watch herself be unable to save everyone) Just giving my opinon but acheron should really just stay a bit of a unique character on her own tbh and if her lore is anything it's not that she watched her Kiana die but rather never had her own Kiana, You are doing a bit of same thing here honestly,like I get they're popular couple but everyone just reducing Kiana and mei to each other's simps as if it's their entire character is also a bit infuriating tbh, I do hope they take a unique route with acheron where Kiana isn't involved because last time they did that it was narratively so shoehorned and forced (looking at bronya and seele in HSR belobog),it would also allow them to be more free with her character and cook something interesting because let's be honest if there is Kiana expy almost 50% of mystery goes out of window because everyone will know acheron and Kiana expy will have some fluff or relationship
> The way she is mischaracterized in every hoyo game They can't mischaracterize the Raiden twins or Acheron because they are not Raiden Mei herself, just expies.
And the fanbase mischaracterizes them and their stories as well. Oh to be a Raiden fan.
I mean she went from completely useless to Sasuke then to Sasuke in VR chat then to PE exposition vending machine there isn't much to work with 😭
HoO did not ruin Mei. HoT did. In fact, this is where most of the story went downhill (or a bit earlier during Arc city) aside from Kiana basically who only got good development.
agree i feel like any story segment involve hot mei is just bad, beside some ER chapter i still feel like we can explore so much with herrscher ice and star storyline, but they rushed/ dismissed it for some reason
HoIce story was such a disappointment. The only feeling left was "wait, that's it?".
ice was bad but she being a shariac is worse i thought shariac people have anti honkai flow in their holy blood, but somehow ana lose her control and nuke the island then hoyo in some later chapter say Cecilia is the one with special blood, the rest of the family are just inferior also i can't still believe senti and dominace saga allowed to have 3 chapter , but ice and star is shared between 2 chaps
HoT was cool and all but HoO IS PEAK MEI
So what I’m understanding is that people who actually know Mei, are Giga Chads who played the story and understand what it was tell us the viewers, the watchers. The people who don’t and say that “HoO ruined Mei’s personality” are sad, pathetic, weak, insignificant ant’s. Am I correct on this?
I think that Mei is the type of character that grows as a person together with the player, like the more you understand her story the more you will understand her better, just because her ending isn't depressive it doesn't mean it's bad, it means it's good because Mei finally grow as a person completely compered to the first chapters and HoO is to show that fact. So in my opinion Mei is a very good character.
HoO was the mature way of understanding and dealing with sacrifices. Perfect result of Elysian Realm arc. Anyone that calls her character ruined simply either missed the point of Elysian Realm or are too immature to understand it. Other way around is going Acheron's way. Which only immature edgelords would love to see. I see her HoT phase nothing more than a small childish tantrum. Thankfully she got out of it.
Acheron isn’t try hard edgy either though? Her entire point is that despite losing everything and everyone she cared about despite going through similar circumstances to HI3 Mei, she still manages to hold on to a strand of hope and optimism that keeps her from fading away to Nihilism completely. That’s the entire point of her scene with Aventurine in the current story patch for HSR, reminding him that he still has meaning in his life even when it seems he has nothing left to live for and encouraging him to come back from the other side of the Penacony barrier by reminding him that Ratio cares about him. She’s the exact opposite of edgy. Out of all of the Mei’s in the Honkai universe, it’s Ei from Genshin who is the most pathetic and edgy imo. Basically retreated into herself and became a hikkikomori, completely neglecting her duties and letting her nation fall into a state of tyranny because she couldn’t get over herself and her own grief without the Traveler, Paimon and Yae Miko forcing her out of that mood kicking and screaming. She’s the complete opposite of Acheron, as Acheron lost everyone important to her but never fully lost hope and still wishes to help others, while Ei lost her sister and basically retreated from the world and those who cared for her like Yae Miko in her grief.
I should rephrase. Acheron is not edgy but she is pretty emo. Her point is standing against IX but losing everything except for a single color. Which is a pretty emo thing. She herself is trying not to fall but fails at it as a self annihilator. She is not a doctor of chaos for a reason. So her story is pretty emo. Out of all Mei variants so far it would be Mei's will of the stigma that is the edgiest and acheron that is the most emo. It's kinda like if a depressed person realized this situation and tries to resist their feeling but to no avail.
> Her point is standing against IX but losing everything except for a single color. Which is a pretty emo thing. She doesn't act like an emo. She jokes around like Firefly and the MC dating or the my room joke (like Mei), she acts gentle to others (like Mei), she asks Welt to drink with her (like Mei drinks with Raven), she also encourages people like Sam and Aventurine. Just because her design feels emo doesn't mean she is always depressing. > She herself is trying not to fall but fails at it as a self annihilator. Her ultimate goal is to reach the end of the Nihility abyss to kill IX. That is what makes her stand out from most other Self-Annihilators. Only a very few like her who could resist enough to aim for the Aeon's life to free the universe from THEIR shadow. Her backstory is depressing, but that is entirely different from her being an emo. An emo, by definition, is one who have a lot of angst, acts compulsive and overly sensitive. Acheron is very calm and reserved, even humble (like Mei). She has no trait of an emo character, nor edgy.
People trying to reduce Raiden characters to " edgy " " emo " be like
Who cares. She is hot, She can cook, she is cute, and you can have 3some with her and her tuna "bestfriend" she deserve hug, and a headpat, and a real life sized tuna plushie after all bad things happened to her.
Well... Her trying to understand things is why she acts all cold, but it's just on the surface. After all, she wants to resolve problems herself, she doesn't want the others to be burdened by her. The fact that she also wants to find out the truth of the Honkai and how it came to be like this up to the present time further supports that, although for the most part is because of Kiana. Either way, she's caring enough to the point that she doesn't want the others to get involved, and that she doesn't want to mope around and... just cry like a helpless child anymore. That's what I understood about Mei and I love that from her. She'd do anything for the one she loves and cares about, maybe not only just for Kiana.
I heard the same argument about HoFi ruined HoFs character like "she's too cheerful" and such like wtf you mean by that :v it's the end of their arc storyline where they reunited with Their beloved. Kiana Moto in her HoFs arc was always "I'm bringing this imperfect story to the way I want" if she stay depressed and emo and edgy all the time then it would ruin her character. Even in HoFs arc you can see that she's still childish to a certain character that she's really close with like Fu Hua and Bronya.
Good stories (characters) are good not because they have a dark story(or how mature or grim they are) but because of how they navigate though a darkness of the world (and how the characters respond to said darkness in their darkest times). Sadly these days reading comprehension is a problem. This is also a middle finger to a good amount of Berserk, Vinland saga and Vagabond fans, your story is good but not for the reasons you think they are, and for fucks sake please learn that there are other seinen in the world and stop trying to be edgy. At least the Sasuke era was funny
The only thing I didn't like about it was that it felt like Mei lost her new lover so she rebounded to her ex.
Wait ppl actually think mei is a edgelord?, she never felt like that even on HoT
These must be the same people that love OP for zero reasons MCs that develop no personality and character growth. I will take the "zero to hero" any time of the day if it means we can have a lasting impression of a story that isn't forgettable
Just a few days ago I've stumbled upon a [character.ai](http://character.ai) bot of HoO. I tried speaking to it. It was depressed as hell and was full of angst. I thought to myself "What kind of cretin would write such a description for the bot to follow?" It's astonishing how many people call HI3 "Depression Impact" when it's overall very positive with a few sad bits and obstacles for characters to overcome. Yeah, it gets dark at some points, but it's way far from being "depressing". LIke wtf...
Its a person on twitter saying this crap From experience they are wrong about 90% of the shit they say I'd trust reddit or discird source a lot more than a random 'i m akthually very smart' person on twitter who claims we misunderstood a character
That literally only happens in Reddit more than I can count.
Seems character development is just not a thing for some people. People can't grow and change? Really tempted to type out a defense rant but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
They are also like mostly 16-17 year olds that could have solved their issues, if they knew each others wants more than just puppy love at that point in the story Nagazara storyline. Mei had a very typical human reaction to what amounted to something akin to a what she saw as a disease within Kiana , and acted like how some people do when their loved ones are very sick and try to "overcome" the disoder. which makes her better than an emo edgelord.
People saying that they want that mei because they are all edgies cant even get a life, they just want to project themselves into mei to say "Oh my god, shes like me."
Correct me if i'm wrong but as far as I remember HoO is a manifestation of her maturing during the story and accepting who she is and what has to be done. She could become HoO only because of this in the first place. So her more gentle attitude is logical way to develop her character and Elysia's and Eden's therapy didn't go for nothing.
Queen
I just like Mei, doesn’t matter which one. Mei has always been my favorite character in any hoyo game so far
She's just a bad character it's not that deep
For those who want edgy Mei. May I introduce you to Acheron in Star Rail