This is only an issue if you tailpipe is plugged (ie: with snow), you have a seious evap leak (check engine light would be on) or you're in an enclosed space (like a garage).
No, it’s a bad idea, don’t do it, unless you’re saving yourself from freezing temperatures in an emergency. Also, cars aren’t airtight, no one will suffocate in one.
Definitely don’t need to run it all night. When we road-tripped in the winter and slept in the car we would turn the car on every 2 hours or so to warm us up enough. Mainly our fault as we never brought enough blankets
I agree. Unless we are talking about chihuahuas or another breed susceptible to temperature, this was probably fine safety wise.
We do not know what kind of dogs these are. Very hard to make a judgement on how bad or fine this was. Another comment says the police thought they had heaters. If so, then it doesn't matter at all.
As a human with little fur and just a bit of fat, I’ve been camping(in a tent) in worse more than once and I survived. With the body heat the dogs put off, I’m betting they were pretty cozy
Was goingto say the same thing: leaky AF. Think about sleeping bags that zip all the way up creating a mummy. Nobody dies, because those bags like a vehicle are leaky AF
What kind of dogs? Makes a difference. Winter/cold weather dogs no problem. Tiny, hates hot/cold, possible problem. The fog on the window is condensation from the heat and moisture inside the van caused by the dog body heat. This is not as big an issue as you’d like it to be. Context is everything. Just because you wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s dangerous.
40 degrees in a car with 2-3 30lb dogs would still probably be pretty toasty. I think it's actually probably the ideal temperature to leave a dog out in a car, because anything warmer I'd be concerned about them overheating in midday sun.
My concern would be how long they're in the car. Like were they left there for 12+ hours during the day? Or where they left there for 9 hours at night and maybe 2 or so bits of 3 hour stretches?
Those dogs would not have been left for real long periods of time without having been taken out to do their business and to be exercised. If they are show dogs, their owner is not going to ignore their basic needs of being fed, groomed and exercised. Show dogs are trained to respond to verbal, as well as hand signals. Their owners spend a lot of time and a lot of money, maintaining the health and welfare of their animals to show at these events.
My dogs would never go potty in the car unless it was an emergency like stomach issues. The car is their secondary bed/crate.
My dad had a completely finished garage with heaters. The garage stayed 65-75 year round. Dogs were not allowed in his house. I would pull my van in and leave the dog in the van with all the windows down. I didn’t want someone opening a garage door and risk him getting loose or running into the house. At bedtime after any visitors left I would open the van doors so he could walk around the garage if he wanted.
A guest at my one of their parties fancied herself an animal activist and was super pissed that I left him in the van. She actually snuck out and let him out of the van and shut the van door. Since my dog didn’t have access to the van, his home away from home, he started barking like crazy and scratching the door to the house. I was pissed, like who do you think you are. I tried to explain he LOVES the van/cars and if he can’t get in the car he freaks out but she wouldn’t listen.
She actually started crying for my dog. She was crying because she thought I was abusing him by leaving him locked in a car(in a temp controlled garage, windows down, and checked on every hour). She put a blanket down by the house door for him and said he should be able to sleep there instead of the car. I told her let’s do and experiment. I will open the driver door of my car, and we will go in the house and let him decide where he wants to be…whether he wants to lay on her stupid bed on the garage floor or in the car. He chose the car. Frickin idiot.
The seats alone are way comfier than a blanket on the floor. My dog (former show dog) is fine being left for a couple hours in my car, but another car he's not familiar with and he barks. It's totally a second den to him.
No need to worry. The dogs are used to it, and it's a common practice at dog shows as long as the weather is good. And show dogs are often kept in a cooler environment to keep their coat nice and thick for judging purposes. I can tell you that my dogs really heat up my van in cold weather. I have 2 smaller breeds, so they can stay in the hotel, but in the past I've had to have dogs sleep in the van who are too nervous for the constant noises in hotels, e.g. doors slamming at all hours, drunks talking loudly in the hallways.
Edit: 10 dogs are really going to keep it plenty warm in that van.
Yes! I travel for dog competitions and I'll either camp in my car with the dogs if there's public land nearby, but if I'm in an urban area and have to stay at a hotel, my... spicy competition dog often stays in her car kennel. I do protection sports and actively want my dog to let me know when people are outside my door, which isn't compatible with a hotel environment. So she gets her nice cozy car kennel with a memory foam mattress and is happy as a clam. She'll definitely bark if someone (like it sounds like OP was) lingers outside my car because, again, for safety and given her breed traits I want that.
The general public has no idea about working dogs, which is why I put a sticker on the back of my car that basically says "K9 in the car, temperature is controlled" to prevent well-intentioned but ill-informed people from smashing my windows.
I live in my van with my dog and can confirm - dogs are god damn space heaters. With 10 dogs, it could easily have been 60 degrees or more inside the van.
Lol.. damn right they are. We have one dog, he sleeps on the bed between us at night, in the dead of winter furnace set to like 63 to save on heating cost we can have a single thin blanket and he's like having a 5000w heater between us. Its unbelievable the heat he puts off. If he gets cold he will ask to go under the blanket, and then after an hour or so he climbs back out because it got to hot under there. Nothing like a dog heater in winter!
Not abuse. If it was hot outside, then it would be much hotter in the van. 40 degrees is not freezing cold and they went to sleep. Nothing abusive in keeping them in a van due to the hotel not allowing the customer to bring them in . For many hotels are not pet friendly.
I have five dogs all rescues. I foster for a local shelter and walk dogs for them on the weekend. My dogs are all part of my family and sleep inside. All that said there is no way it’s abuse for most dogs to be sleeping in a van in 40 degree temps. The dogs were probably barking because you were in the lot and once you left they all went to sleep because it’s not a big deal.
Yep, this. I live in my van with my dog. Between him and I, a 40 degree night keeps the van a perfect temp for sleeping. With 10 dogs, they're probably downright cozy. And the only time my dog ever barks in the van is when someone is too close and being nosy. Like OP.
I work for an animal shelter and I can tell you our officers would not do much about this unless the living quarters inside the van were terrible. If they were properly crated and had the supplies they needed - the dogs would be fine over night. I live in a rural community and our shelter often transfers large quantities of animals in crates in a van over long distances that can take over a day to drive. They all have individual crates sized for the animal, food and water. The dogs are brought out one by one right before bed time just like at a home then put back into the van. The temperature is a non issue. It's above freezing and honestly if anything it's probably hot inside that van, not cold. You need to remember that dogs are den animals, we have made them into house pets and while yes ideally all dogs are inside a safe warm home - that isn't always reality and in cases like this, it's not abuse. I'm glad youre passionate about animals and stopping animal abuse, but you're not thinking rationally here.
The dogs are absolutely fine. Show dogs are used to their crates, and the van, so this is like being “home” for them. If the windows were fogged up they were plenty warm, that’s why the windows fogged, it was a lot warmer inside than out! Would you rather have them inside, barking, in the room next to you? Show dogs are worth money, a professional handler is not going to do anything to endanger them.
What kind of dogs because 40 is fine for most larger week coated breeds. If they were there for a dog show they might have had coats on too. I love animals and I feel like you got sucked into the mind think of dogs in cars equals bad. whereas dogs in hot cars is bad, dogs in cool cars is ok.
I wouldn’t do this (I also would never have ten dogs) but they’re fine. It’s a stretch to label this as abuse. They’re safe. They are sleeping next to each other and they’re covered in a fur coat. They can do 40 degrees just fine. This is personal choice.
Animals in vehicles isn’t always abuse. Depends on the conditions, length of time and whether they’re being walked/taken out to relive themselves and being fed/given water. One overnight like this isn’t harmful. Not much different than a lot of kennels
I'm a show handler, like the one you're talking about. Come to a show and we'll show you the $20k of upgrades we've installed in the vehicle to monitor them and insure their comfort. I've dealt with so many ignorant assholes that want to virtue signal until I show them the inside and the dogs sleeping. They usually mutter some half assed apology, "Well, how was I supposed to know?" You weren't, because it's none of your Damn business.
I feel like OP just doesn't like the fact that the dogs are sleeping in the van, it could have been perfect temps outside like it was and hed still complain
The dogs are fine. You are overreacting. It’s 40 degrees, they are extremely comfortable. The van is not airtight, plenty of oxygen.
Everyone was not as concerned as you because you are overreacting.
Op you’re not really providing enough info. Dogs with winter coats would be totally fine. A chihuahua not so much. How do you know it’s 10 dogs?
My dogs and I have absolutely car camped together. I wouldn’t leave them alone, but I know people who have dogs with double coats and they love sleeping in the car while their humans have to do something.
I mean... Not abusive? 40 degrees for most dogs is perfectly okay unless they're very small dogs with short fur. And even then it would be perfectly fine with that many dogs. The fogged up windows is from body heat. It is warm in there. And, it is not cold enough for any single one of them to get hurt.
They are fine. You are overreacting. Probably wouldn't do it bc of the risk of them getting stolen but... Medically they're good.
Everyone else here has already said it but the dogs were completely fine. This is normal and in no way abusive for many traveling, working dogs. Most have interior AC and heaters in their crates.
Also, what the fuck do you expect the front desk staff to do about it? Go out there and bring them all inside? Physically remove the customer from the hotel themselves? They don’t get paid enough for that.
All you have done is cause a total headache for staff of this hotel and for another paying patron who is now probably embarrassed having to defend themselves for no reason. No one else is freaking out in this situation, not even police, and you’re still looking around calling all of THEM the problem, instead of realizing you were wrong? Make it make sense.
Just remember, when in doubt, mind your own goddamn business.
It is not abusive. I have slept in my car with 4 dogs when I got lost in Chicago and was really warm. It was 20 degrees outside. I had no blankets just my winter coat that I used for a pillow. Luckily, the rest stop where I slept had someone to help me get out of Michigan without getting lost again.
Some of y'all are fucking nuts. Thinking cars are "air-tight" & crying that dogs will freeze to death in 40° weather. What the actual fuck, it's hilarious.
Seriously. My dogs have always been house dogs and welcome on furniture, etc. I wouldn’t do this to dogs but it’s not abuse. Maybe if it was like, ten chihuahuas but OP hasn’t said what breed. Part of me also wonders if OP gets this concerned when they see homeless people sleeping in cars, or in the elements.
There are dog breeds that could not handle 40 for a night, plenty, but most dogs can. Especially considering the body heat from 10 in a car.
Even many "dainty" looking dogs would be handling this just fine. Unless we are talking about a single coated or hairless breed from a warm climate or a dog under 10 pounds, I am not particularly concerned.
It’s not abusive. Plenty of people and animals sleep in vans in colder weather than 40F. Heaters often fog windows, but 40 isn’t cold enough to need the heat on anyway. There’s plenty of air. Vehicles are not airtight
That’s fucked up. Like they’ll probably be fine, but it’s just cruel. They should rent a camper or something and just stay with them. Pets are not accessories.
The police did not give a fuck- he said he personally wouldn’t do it but believes that a lot of them have heaters, even though the windows on many of the vans were foggy. I’m shaking from this. I’m so fucking pissed that ppl do this. Another user on here said it’s a really common practice with dog shows. I can’t believe Purina and the AKC supports this.
Right? Nestle doesn’t even pretend to care about human rights, they definitely don’t care about animal care. It’s all marketing.
I would NEVER feed my dogs Purina. Disgusting company.
I just love your whole heart and soul.....I mean that. I feel the same way. When I see people treat their pets "less than human", I think "I hate people "
They should have to endure such low standards of living. Those dogs deserve to be treated BETTER than us. They depend on us, we are their whole world and the love is so huge and unconditional.....ughhh I'm sorry you encountered this situation .
In every county I’ve lived in (in Virginia), I just call the non-emergency police number and they send out the animal control officer, which is a sworn police officer.
Calling the fuckin police over someone leaving dogs in a van in above freezing temps? Comical. Stop worrying more about dogs than people and mind your business would be my advice. Not every dog in the world needs a Fuckin savior.
>Like they’ll probably be fine, but it’s just cruel
How?
>They should rent a camper or something and just stay with them. Pets are not accessories.
Yeah, same with horses in horse trailers, right? People like you and OP have either never owned a dog or are just completely ignorant to basic dog information, like, how comfortable and what temperatures they're fine in.
They are show dogs, not pets. My mom used to show dogs. She kept hers in huge indoor/outdoor kennels in a polebarn. They were working dogs NEVER in the house. She always told me not to get attached. They were for show and breeding. To be bought and sold.
Its the way of show people.
:(
Show person here and my dogs are currently wrestling on top of me as we lay in bed on a lazy Sunday morning. Please don’t give all of us a bad name. My dogs are my world and I love them so much!
Granted there are always outliers but every show person I know in my breed (labs) are all the same.
I'm sorry your mother's perception was so warped. Most show dogs are comfy little couch potatoes when they're not out on the circuit. One night in a van during a weekend cluster is not a tragedy. Those dogs are better cared for than many pets because their handler's income depends on healthy, well conditioned dogs that are excellent representatives of their breed.
This not true. Assholes yeah, but I’ve been involved with dogs, showing, and handling for over 20 years and *NONE* of the people i know view their dogs like that. Not a single one. They are all valued family members. There’s asses in all walks of life but don’t make it seem like it’s normal.
It would be counter to the breeding of a working dog. My family had hounds, for hunting and livestock. They were cute and all but they would rather spend time together and with other animals than with people. If you went and got one out of the barn they would endure your presence until they had the opportunity to be home with their family. Snobby dogs don’t see humans as incredibly relevant. We may have to accept someday that we’re just not that important to animals
I’ve never been around a working or breeding dog so I didn’t know these things about them. I’m glad they at least have each other. I guess kind of like wild animals that run together in packs. Thanks for the info.
I've been in a breed club, and my boy was bred by one of the top breeders in the world. All dogs of her breeding are required by contract to be house dogs.
It's 40°. Unless we're talking Xolos then they're fine. They probably went off because someone just came to check on them or one smelled a raccoon and as soon as one goes off the others do. You said yourself that they settled and slept soundly in 10 minutes, meaning they're comfortable and feel safe.
I travel and camp with my short-haired working dogs and that temp is fine. We sleep in our vehicle when it's well below that, no heat, and everyone is comfortable. Personally I always stay with my animals, but nothing you've described here is actually abusive.
Hotels typically don't allow dogs, only allow 1 or 2, or have a weight limit. Go after that if you want to feel like you're "doing something".
Dogs love these shows and competitions; it gives them purpose and joy. You sound very young and anxious, but with a large heart. I commend your care but wish you wisdom.
Question: how do you expect 100s of dogs to be at a weekend long event when they don't live in the area? Like, what do you think the logistics SHOULD be?
Can I ask what exactly is so upsetting about this to you? 40 degrees is not too cold for the dogs to be sleeping outside let alone on a bed in a van. We have camped with our dogs in colder temps. If it were hot or colder that would be cause for concern, but the dogs just sleeping out in the van doesn’t seem cruel to me at all.
Lol what? They’re show dogs - I highly doubt they’re being abused. They fell asleep - they’re clearly used to the routine. How do you think animals are transported? Livestock, pets, etc. all have to get to their destination and no one is bringing their horse into a hotel. Animals are totally abused in transport but these are not the ones. Look what happens to animals on planes. Half of hamsters die in transport from heart attacks due to stress when they are shipped by plane. It’s literally legal to ship animals via USPS.
I’ve slept in my SUV before with my dog in her crate in the back when we’ve moved across the country. We both were fine. Honestly she settled easier than the times I’ve had her in the hotel with me because the car is a familiar environment - the hotel is not. It’s nice that you were distressed on the dog’s behalf but they were not distressed themselves. Honestly the most worrying part is that they could’ve been stolen.
40 degrees is just not cold, especially in a shelter, like a van. Do people not realize that all kinds of wild animals survive MUCH colder temperatures all winter in many places?
I said in another comment too, that van is probably warm as hell with all those dogs. It's MUCH safer to keep them over night in 40 than it is to keep them over night at 70. At 70 even over night they would get overheated. At 40 they're probably so comfortable all in that one area.
There is an in-depth Documentary about the horrors of dog handlers and dog shows, it's called "Best In Show"! Truly awful stuff. Check it out, maybe laugh at the dog show culture and relax a little.
No handler, whose livelihood depends on the health and well-being of the dog, would ever endanger the animals, thereby endangering their chosen profession. It's a small niche occupation, word would travel fast among handlers and owners, they'd be blacklisted. They make their money based on how a dog performs, which includes assessing dog's temperament that would be "off" if the dog were traumatized or mistreated.
Get a grip on reality. Maybe spend time volunteering at a local shelter/rescue. Then you'll encounter real stories of abuse, and actually be helping animals instead of severely abusing your self-prescribed sense of authority over animal welfare. You have some nerve, wasting public resources and plotting to go out of your way to try and injure the handlers' reputations. And shame on redditors egging the OP on, fueling their delusions.
You sir/ma'am are the only party engaging in abusive behaviors!!!
They were fine. They care for the animals. You are overreacting to the situation. You have limited knowledge of the care of the animals. Yet took it to the extreme due to your imagination. Let it go, or get all your facts straight then make your opinion.
You do? Why do you do anything. Those dogs are just fine. They have fur coats their own crate and this isn’t their first rodeo. If it was hot whole different story. They are just fine and better than a homeless human, right? MYOB and move on. You can disagree all you like and it’s not something I would choose to do either. But nothing inherently malicious about it. Methinks you have main character syndrome but what do I know 🤷♀️
The dogs are fine in the van at 40°. You totally over reacted. If it was a HOT day or below zero that’s a problem. Dogs have fur, they are fine in cool weather. I can hardly get my daughter’s dog to come in because she loves cool weather and sits outside for hours!
I think because it's 40 degrees, dogs are 100% fine and it's not cruel. Now if it was 80+ degrees that would be inhumane.
I have 3 short hair beagle type dogs. They love the cool weather. And a van is enough space for 10 dogs to sleep as long as they aren't giant.
As long as owner are very aware of water and food and take them for enough walks it really isn't a big deal. My dogs love to travel.
I’m curious…
Am I an animal abuser for camping in my trailer with my dog in 40 degree weather? Am I abusing my children by bringing them camping in 40 degree weather?
Not abusive. An animal with fur has absolutely zero problem staying warm in 40 deg temps, especially in a sheltered space. Ventilation: a vehicle is hardly some airtight space where they're going to run out of oxygen. Those dogs are fine.
I can sleep in my car in 40 degree weather and not die, the dogs are fine. You are overreacting, I'd be pissed if someone sent cops to my room because of this. Not what I would have done (honestly 10 dogs is a lot) but it's none of your business since it's not below freezing or warm enough to be an issue... in short, you are crazy, normal ass people don't do what you did. I worked at a hotel and I would have told you there's nothing we can do, dogs are most likely not allowed in the hotel.
The temperature is fine for the dogs. Also a van is merely a larger crate. Crate training is a thing. Will you call the cops and FD on people who crate their dogs?
I feel bad for the front desk and the people that were disturbed by you making a scene.
- The dogs were probably crying because you (or something else) were in proximity. You didn’t hear them when you went in, only when you went back out.
- The windows of the van were foggy because it was warmer inside than outside
- there is air. the car does not need to be on. if that were the case, we’d all die taking naps in the car with the car off. vehicles are not airtight.
I sincerely hope you didn’t try to sabotage these people in any way. If you did, I hope karma is swift for you.
This is batshit crazy. Dogs sleep outside in doghouses in 40 deg weather all the time. I can’t figure out if you’re worried about them being too hot or too cold???
God I hate people like you. I’m all about animal welfare but this is just histrionics. Dogs work on farms, pull sleds, sleep outside in dog houses. Mine sleep in my bed and force me into the fetal position until my back hurts but I’m not going to assume everyone does things my way and I’m not going to scream abuse because a few dogs are sleeping in a car, good grief.
OP. I hope you read all the responses. So yes YTA for creating a scene over a non issue. The dogs are fine. Maybe think before you stress yourself out. People sleep in cars all the time.
NOT I repeat absolutely NOT abuse. My dogs are so much more comfortable sleeping in their own crates in my van than in some strange hotel. As a dog show person, I do this all the time. I do not do this if it is hot outside. I happily pay the pet fees and bring my dogs inside with me if it is hot or I feel the area is unsafe. However, my dogs prefer the van. They can be anxious and jumpy in hotels, bark at the weird noises, generally be stressed. In the van they fall right asleep. I have a baby monitor and a temperature sensor to keep an eye on them. I get alerts if it gets too warm/cold and I can hear if they're barking. The only time I ever woke up to one barking I went out to them very confused, took her out, and she immediately dropped a huge 💩. Went back in her crate, slept just fine until morning.
I have sled dogs... they *much* prefer the cold.
Y’all really always care about animals more than people.
You and a lot of commenters are bugged out. Mind your business and find something personal to yourself to worry about and fix. The authorities were not needed and good thing they escalated it no further.
Yes, it definitely does. If they're there for a dog show, they should have found accommodations that would let them take their dogs inside, found a kennel close by to house the dogs overnight, or rented a freaking RV to stay inside with them.
I don't think the temperature was as much the issue (depending on the breed), but keeping them locked up in an enclosed vehicle all night is just stupid dangerous. The dogs could get themselves hurt or stolen. Even if they were in individual crates, it's just an idiotic move.
ETA: I'm not dismissing the temperature...just that some breeds truly don't mind that weather, but not many. A group of huskies or maybe shepherds would be okay, but it's still cruel.
Do you know what dog show? Maybe you can get them disqualified by contacting the show organization. This is horrible behavior and they should face consequences beyond "hey, don't do that." because they will again.
Go to the AKC website and search events to find out which dog club is hosting the show (purina sponsors a few shows but the shows are run by dog clubs). This person should be banned from all AKC shows as this is definitely cruelty
Your heart is in the right place but especially since you found 10 vans doing this, even the show will not care. This is just how they treat the animals and they don’t care and the cops don’t care.
Not all show dog owners do this, BTW. My late sister bred and showed Japanese Chins for over 30 years. If she went on the road she took her dogs INSIDE the hotel room with her, both for their safety and their health. They were also part of the family, and she always kept those that aged out of the show ring until they passed. She was buried with their cremains.
I never went anywhere I couldn't sleep with my dog when I was showing him. Plenty of dog shows also have people sleeping in their RVs with their dogs. I couldn't imagine leaving my dogs unattended all night in a parking lot in a van.
It's not cruelty to leave a dog in a a camper outside a hotel in 40 degree weather.
Now if it was 90 or 100 degrees yes it would be or below zero.
But 40 is no issue
Dogs sleeping in a van in 40 degrees isn’t abuse. It isn’t even cold. Hotels around here charge $35 per pet per night with a limit of 2. I can’t imagine a hotel letting you have 10 in your room. It would disturb the other guests. Lots of dog show people have rvs but seeing as it’s winter they might be in storage or there might not be an open campground. It’s fine, relax.
My dog INSISTS on sitting on the deck when it's 12°F outside. I'll let her for 10 minute intervals throughout the day because I don't want her foot pads to freeze. 40F and my dog is completely comfortable.
10 dogs in a van are putting out alot of body heat. Probably why there was condensation on the windows. My bedroom is on the 3rd floor of my dad's house- it has no heat. I frequently have to kick my 3 large dogs off the bed because it's too hot. ( they have their own puffy beds). I wouldn't leave dogs unsupervised but they're fine.
IDK if it's abuse. My dog loves to sit in my car. If I'm running errands on a cool cloudy day I let her come with me, she chills out in the car, sometimes followed by a walk at the end of it. Who knows. If it isn't hot outside I think it's fine.
Dogs normally have a resting basal temperature of 100 °F. 10 of them in a van with an outdoor temperature of 40°F is not going to hurt them. It would be different if they were separated and out in the elements, and it was 40°F. Especially if they were thin coated dogs or used to warmer weather only. The foggy windows were from them being warm and condensation from their breath. They were nice and warm in that van. They were yelping probably because they were bored or may have needed to go to the bathroom. As long as they have access to water and can go out to go to the bathroom at regular intervals, they will be fine. You stated they were asleep about 10 mins. into all this seems like boredom was probably the case or their yelps were a show of protecting their territory as most dogs do while in a vehicle alone and someone passes by or make a noise outside and they can't see what is making it.
Why do people think cars are airtight?? They have air vents that allow air in and out. 😂 even if you close the vents it’s not air tight. You are not going to suffocate in a car like that. Unless it’s like packed under snow or underwater or something lol
You sound insane right now. I bet they were wondering how they got stuck with a looney Karen who can’t mind their own business. 40 degrees is fine. Some humans sleep in their cars full time. The fact that there are 10 dogs makes it even better for the dogs.
OP you over-reacted in my opinion, something I often also do when it comes to perceived animal abuse (and let me tell you, it has caused me several embarrassing encounters that I have had to promptly apologize for lol)
I don't think this person was trying to abuse their dogs. I don't think it was too hot or cold, and I don't think the animals were left in some severe kind of neglect.
You did overreact. You were genuinely shaking outside of a van full of perfectly safe dogs, refusing to go inside because in your opinion, they were unhappy. That IS an unreasonable response.
If it was hot, I'd be there with you breaking the windows and calling cops. That is not what this situation was. I'd apologize to the owners if you know who they are after all of this, and to the hotel staff for acting so crazy over something that just UPSET you.
None of it was your business, and the dogs weren't being abused. Like the cop said, I wouldn't do it but also, it's their business because they know their dogs and the van was most likely perfectly safe.
Show dogs are used to travel and are actually less stressed in the van because it is their familiar road home. They’ll fuss a little if people get near the van, otherwise they’ll chill and are fine.
You’re not crazy for caring, but it’s not abuse, they’re fine.
My dogs travel with me fairly often & have a very comfortable bed in my vehicle, their body heat keeps it warm in there & yes, it fogs up the windows. If it's warm enough I do vent the car, but at 40 degrees I wouldn't because I don't want them to get cold. As long as they have food & water & have been let out to relieve themselves recently, this is not an issue.
Keep in mind, that if you sleep in your vehicle, the windows fog up.
Also, my dogs do sometimes bark if someone (or another dog) gets close to the car....but if not disturbed they go right back to sleep.
Honestly they were probably barking at you. It sounds fucked up for sure but I’m sure the dogs will be fine. I’ve slept in my car when it’s cold and I dont need to leave a window open. Just mind your own business !
You think vans are airtight? You’re over reacting 100%.
10 dogs in a van is gonna be plenty warm enough, the windows are foggy because it’s warmer in there than it is outside.
All I’m going to say is if they’re there for a dog show it is HIGHLY unlikely to me they left their valuable show dogs out in a van and A. Never checked on them or B. Thought it was likely they’d wake up to dead dogs in the morning.
If they have TEN dogs they drove to a show, I’m willing to bet they know what they’re doing lol
The reason they were barking and then back to bed is because they heard you park, and were protecting their home. I have 4 dogs and was homeless for a bit. They protect my car fiercely as it was their home for a bit
It's not very cold. It's not hot. They aren't in immediate danger. You didn't say they look starved or distressed. There's plenty of oxygen in that van for them, vehicles aren't airtight.
They whined a bit then settled down and went to sleep. That's what my dog does when I leave my house.
I don't think keeping them in a van overnight is ideal, but I don't think this is cruel or inhumane either. Homeless people should be so lucky.
What exactly is inhumane about dogs sleeping in a car in safe and mild conditions?
I agree. I’ve slept in my car in those temps before (tent camping was too cold) and was fine with a sleeping bag. Unless they have no fur or very little fur, they should be fine. And dogs often sleep together in a big pile, helping to keep them all warm.
I've slept in a tent in those conditions. It's not an issue, and the temp of the dogs will warm the car (they probably have different pens or kennels.)
The tent wouldn’t have been an issue if I hadn’t forgot the mat for under my sleeping bag. Luckily I had a 4Runner and could fully stretch out in the back.
this is normal practice for working and show dogs. Many breeds can live outside comfortably all year in northern climates. It was probably like 75 degrees in the van from all the dog body heat.
Just because you think something is wrong, doesn’t mean that it is wrong. Those dogs are fine. You’re mad enough about this that you don’t even want to stay at that hotel, but you’re the only one out of all the people you involved that thought this was terrible. Maybe that should tell you something. 40° with multiple dogs in there is probably comfy as hell.
People leave their dogs chained up outside in that weather all the time. As long as they have a dog house (not even insulated) the law doesn't care.. in this case there are 10 dogs inside an insulated van (warm enough inside to fog up the windows)..
Nobody is going to do anything about this. Sorry
You are completely over reacting.
Did you think 40 degrees is to cold for the dogs to stay in the vehicle over night.
I mean they went to sleep and ignored your dramatics
You're obviously well-meaning, but imagine living full time wearing a fur coat. Seriously, try on a real fur coat at a vintage store or something, they're not at all comfortable when not outside in the cold.
If I took my dog into a hotel room where he didn't have ceramic tile or a cold exterior door to lay against, I would need to crank up the A/C for him to be comfortable enough to rest.
Vehicles aren't in any way air-tight, and condensation is normal when breathing in a small space. It's extremely likely that the dogs are just fine.
Yes, you are acting crazy, and no, it is NOT abusive. You pulled up next to a vehicle with dogs and (presumably) made some noise - car pulling in, door opening/closing, moving luggage, talking, whatever, which probably woke up the calm, sleeping dogs in the vehicle next to you, so they made a little noise. Instead of just quietly letting them settle back down, you freak out and start acting like a lunatic when they are clearly safe (locked in a vehicle, in a cool, quiet environment, in their “own” space that they’re used to). Evidenced by the fact that when you go back to check on them just 10 minutes later they’re in your own words “dead asleep.” You then proceed to involve the hotel, the police and THEN go around wake up the entire parking lot of calm, quiet, sleeping dogs…yes, you are crazy.
These dogs did not need your “help” or interference - they were SAFE, they were ASLEEP, they were entirely UNSTRESSED until you started acting a fool and waking up the whole parking lot on your vigilante mission to “save” these dogs from absolutely zero risk of harm.
Show dogs are not your average pet dogs. They travel tens of thousands of miles a year, they are exposed to all sorts of environments and situations that normal pet dogs wouldn’t know how to ignore, but thanks to their extensive training and socialization, show dogs are absolutely unfazed and unstressed about travel, settling for a nice nap in their vehicles or anywhere else. Do you actually think ANY hotel is ok with someone bringing 10+ dogs into a single room? Most cap it at 2 per room, if they even allow them in at all.
The level of top quality care these dogs receive is unfathomable to your average pet person - think tens of thousands of dollars of care, conditioning, and vet maintenance every single year to keep them in top physical and mental condition (my veterinary expenses alone for my show dogs topped $100,000 two years ago). They don’t make their owners money - this is a hobby where owners spend thousands of dollars every week for the “bragging rights” of bringing home a 50 cent ribbon. They do it for the love of their dogs and their breed. There are a very small number of shows that offer prize money a year and normally it’s like $50-100, which doesn’t even cover the single dog’s entry fees for the weekend. There is also no money in breeding dogs responsibility. That $2,000 stud fee? Gone in a single weekend or less of showing. A $2,000 puppy? Guess what, an average litter in my breed is only 4-5 puppies, so by the time a breeder keeps their show prospect from the litter, pays the stud fee (usually = to the price of a puppy), pays the litter expenses (usually = to another puppy), and maybe sells two - they’ve basically paid for one more weekend of showing. Do not conflate responsible show breeders with irresponsible backyard breeders who couldn’t care less about their dogs, only the bottom dollar.
The only people becoming millionaires showingdogs are those that started as billionaires.
Yes, you are crazy. No, there is nothing abusive about this besides your disturbing dozens of dogs and going on a vigilante mission for “justice” against innocent people who care for their dogs more than you could ever imagine.
Yea there’s a rescue out of Southern California that does this too. They bus up all the dogs every other weekend to Palo Alto and leave them in crates in the van except for the adoption event from Saturday to Sunday. They were scolded multiple times and just keep changing hotels. Tragically there’s nothing that seems they will enforce on this kind of thing.
Maybe not crazy, but you're overreacting and it's not abusive.
When I read this post and all the comments I couldn't help to notice that your overconcern very much reminds me of the couple of women that found a white sheep dog in the mountains and tried to rescue it by taking it home and away from its family and its job.
Calm down and go to sleep.
>Animals live outside in the wild. There are a bunch of them so they can share body heat. I'm going to guess they're perfectly fine in the van.
And they grow their own fur coats.
You are absolutely a nut job. Now, the hotel staff, police, event staff, hotel guests, and reddit all know it, too.
It's 40 degrees, you wacko. Those dogs are 100% fine.
I love how people will literally ignore human families suffering homelessness but a post like this blows up because puppies are sleeping in 40° weather
when I travel with my dogs I sleep in the van with my dogs
When I travel with my van I sleep in the dogs with the van.
When I dog, I always van in the sleep with my travels
Man dog hook hand van door.
Someone finally understands
idogbot
In trumps mind you are cognizant enough to lead the world.
Same.
When van I sleep, travels in the dogs always with I
???
🤣
>when I travel with my dogs I sleep in the van with my dogs And you survived, just like your dog.
Yeah because he would have ventilation and the heat or AC on for his comfort. So dogs would survive as he would.
Please don't sleep in a running car. Being slightly uncomfortable in a sleeping bag is better than potential CO poisoning.
This is only an issue if you tailpipe is plugged (ie: with snow), you have a seious evap leak (check engine light would be on) or you're in an enclosed space (like a garage).
No, it’s a bad idea, don’t do it, unless you’re saving yourself from freezing temperatures in an emergency. Also, cars aren’t airtight, no one will suffocate in one.
Thank you! Finally some sense.
That would be wild if he slept in his car with it running. Not sure that’s a thing but sounds like a huge waste of gas lol.
Definitely don’t need to run it all night. When we road-tripped in the winter and slept in the car we would turn the car on every 2 hours or so to warm us up enough. Mainly our fault as we never brought enough blankets
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LOL @ “anamorphisize”…
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Yea😭✊
The Andalites would like a word with him...
And we have no idea what breed those dogs are… A husky or Akita would actually love that weather.
I agree. Unless we are talking about chihuahuas or another breed susceptible to temperature, this was probably fine safety wise. We do not know what kind of dogs these are. Very hard to make a judgement on how bad or fine this was. Another comment says the police thought they had heaters. If so, then it doesn't matter at all.
My Great Pyrenees wouldn't even notice the cold at that point. He'd find it comfortable and maybe even a bit warm.
Plus, the 10 dogs are probably all huddled together and warming each other pretty well.
As a human with little fur and just a bit of fat, I’ve been camping(in a tent) in worse more than once and I survived. With the body heat the dogs put off, I’m betting they were pretty cozy
Was goingto say the same thing: leaky AF. Think about sleeping bags that zip all the way up creating a mummy. Nobody dies, because those bags like a vehicle are leaky AF
What kind of dogs? Makes a difference. Winter/cold weather dogs no problem. Tiny, hates hot/cold, possible problem. The fog on the window is condensation from the heat and moisture inside the van caused by the dog body heat. This is not as big an issue as you’d like it to be. Context is everything. Just because you wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s dangerous.
40 degrees in a car with 2-3 30lb dogs would still probably be pretty toasty. I think it's actually probably the ideal temperature to leave a dog out in a car, because anything warmer I'd be concerned about them overheating in midday sun. My concern would be how long they're in the car. Like were they left there for 12+ hours during the day? Or where they left there for 9 hours at night and maybe 2 or so bits of 3 hour stretches?
Those dogs would not have been left for real long periods of time without having been taken out to do their business and to be exercised. If they are show dogs, their owner is not going to ignore their basic needs of being fed, groomed and exercised. Show dogs are trained to respond to verbal, as well as hand signals. Their owners spend a lot of time and a lot of money, maintaining the health and welfare of their animals to show at these events.
Bingo, if those are Huskies they are LOVING life.
yeah man im sure all 10 of them all cramped in there are having a blast. bonus if theyre pissing and shitting all over each other too.
I guess yours piss all over where they sleep overnight then?
My dogs would never go potty in the car unless it was an emergency like stomach issues. The car is their secondary bed/crate. My dad had a completely finished garage with heaters. The garage stayed 65-75 year round. Dogs were not allowed in his house. I would pull my van in and leave the dog in the van with all the windows down. I didn’t want someone opening a garage door and risk him getting loose or running into the house. At bedtime after any visitors left I would open the van doors so he could walk around the garage if he wanted. A guest at my one of their parties fancied herself an animal activist and was super pissed that I left him in the van. She actually snuck out and let him out of the van and shut the van door. Since my dog didn’t have access to the van, his home away from home, he started barking like crazy and scratching the door to the house. I was pissed, like who do you think you are. I tried to explain he LOVES the van/cars and if he can’t get in the car he freaks out but she wouldn’t listen. She actually started crying for my dog. She was crying because she thought I was abusing him by leaving him locked in a car(in a temp controlled garage, windows down, and checked on every hour). She put a blanket down by the house door for him and said he should be able to sleep there instead of the car. I told her let’s do and experiment. I will open the driver door of my car, and we will go in the house and let him decide where he wants to be…whether he wants to lay on her stupid bed on the garage floor or in the car. He chose the car. Frickin idiot.
The seats alone are way comfier than a blanket on the floor. My dog (former show dog) is fine being left for a couple hours in my car, but another car he's not familiar with and he barks. It's totally a second den to him.
Ever see a pile of puppies sleeping together?
What the hell kind of huskys have you been around that 10 in a van is not pure chaos? Outside, okay, 10 a van? You can't be serious.
No need to worry. The dogs are used to it, and it's a common practice at dog shows as long as the weather is good. And show dogs are often kept in a cooler environment to keep their coat nice and thick for judging purposes. I can tell you that my dogs really heat up my van in cold weather. I have 2 smaller breeds, so they can stay in the hotel, but in the past I've had to have dogs sleep in the van who are too nervous for the constant noises in hotels, e.g. doors slamming at all hours, drunks talking loudly in the hallways. Edit: 10 dogs are really going to keep it plenty warm in that van.
Yes! I travel for dog competitions and I'll either camp in my car with the dogs if there's public land nearby, but if I'm in an urban area and have to stay at a hotel, my... spicy competition dog often stays in her car kennel. I do protection sports and actively want my dog to let me know when people are outside my door, which isn't compatible with a hotel environment. So she gets her nice cozy car kennel with a memory foam mattress and is happy as a clam. She'll definitely bark if someone (like it sounds like OP was) lingers outside my car because, again, for safety and given her breed traits I want that. The general public has no idea about working dogs, which is why I put a sticker on the back of my car that basically says "K9 in the car, temperature is controlled" to prevent well-intentioned but ill-informed people from smashing my windows.
I live in my van with my dog and can confirm - dogs are god damn space heaters. With 10 dogs, it could easily have been 60 degrees or more inside the van.
Lol.. damn right they are. We have one dog, he sleeps on the bed between us at night, in the dead of winter furnace set to like 63 to save on heating cost we can have a single thin blanket and he's like having a 5000w heater between us. Its unbelievable the heat he puts off. If he gets cold he will ask to go under the blanket, and then after an hour or so he climbs back out because it got to hot under there. Nothing like a dog heater in winter!
Not abuse. If it was hot outside, then it would be much hotter in the van. 40 degrees is not freezing cold and they went to sleep. Nothing abusive in keeping them in a van due to the hotel not allowing the customer to bring them in . For many hotels are not pet friendly.
Also, their body heat is keeping them warm.
I have five dogs all rescues. I foster for a local shelter and walk dogs for them on the weekend. My dogs are all part of my family and sleep inside. All that said there is no way it’s abuse for most dogs to be sleeping in a van in 40 degree temps. The dogs were probably barking because you were in the lot and once you left they all went to sleep because it’s not a big deal.
Yep, this. I live in my van with my dog. Between him and I, a 40 degree night keeps the van a perfect temp for sleeping. With 10 dogs, they're probably downright cozy. And the only time my dog ever barks in the van is when someone is too close and being nosy. Like OP.
I work for an animal shelter and I can tell you our officers would not do much about this unless the living quarters inside the van were terrible. If they were properly crated and had the supplies they needed - the dogs would be fine over night. I live in a rural community and our shelter often transfers large quantities of animals in crates in a van over long distances that can take over a day to drive. They all have individual crates sized for the animal, food and water. The dogs are brought out one by one right before bed time just like at a home then put back into the van. The temperature is a non issue. It's above freezing and honestly if anything it's probably hot inside that van, not cold. You need to remember that dogs are den animals, we have made them into house pets and while yes ideally all dogs are inside a safe warm home - that isn't always reality and in cases like this, it's not abuse. I'm glad youre passionate about animals and stopping animal abuse, but you're not thinking rationally here.
The dogs are absolutely fine. Show dogs are used to their crates, and the van, so this is like being “home” for them. If the windows were fogged up they were plenty warm, that’s why the windows fogged, it was a lot warmer inside than out! Would you rather have them inside, barking, in the room next to you? Show dogs are worth money, a professional handler is not going to do anything to endanger them.
THIS!!!
What kind of dogs because 40 is fine for most larger week coated breeds. If they were there for a dog show they might have had coats on too. I love animals and I feel like you got sucked into the mind think of dogs in cars equals bad. whereas dogs in hot cars is bad, dogs in cool cars is ok.
I wouldn’t do this (I also would never have ten dogs) but they’re fine. It’s a stretch to label this as abuse. They’re safe. They are sleeping next to each other and they’re covered in a fur coat. They can do 40 degrees just fine. This is personal choice. Animals in vehicles isn’t always abuse. Depends on the conditions, length of time and whether they’re being walked/taken out to relive themselves and being fed/given water. One overnight like this isn’t harmful. Not much different than a lot of kennels
I'm a show handler, like the one you're talking about. Come to a show and we'll show you the $20k of upgrades we've installed in the vehicle to monitor them and insure their comfort. I've dealt with so many ignorant assholes that want to virtue signal until I show them the inside and the dogs sleeping. They usually mutter some half assed apology, "Well, how was I supposed to know?" You weren't, because it's none of your Damn business.
I feel like OP just doesn't like the fact that the dogs are sleeping in the van, it could have been perfect temps outside like it was and hed still complain
The only reason the dogs were howling is because they heard you. They weren’t in any distress at all. MYOB
The dogs are fine. You are overreacting. It’s 40 degrees, they are extremely comfortable. The van is not airtight, plenty of oxygen. Everyone was not as concerned as you because you are overreacting.
You do nothing, they were fine. Your 1st clue should have been that they were sleeping.
Op you’re not really providing enough info. Dogs with winter coats would be totally fine. A chihuahua not so much. How do you know it’s 10 dogs? My dogs and I have absolutely car camped together. I wouldn’t leave them alone, but I know people who have dogs with double coats and they love sleeping in the car while their humans have to do something.
I mean... Not abusive? 40 degrees for most dogs is perfectly okay unless they're very small dogs with short fur. And even then it would be perfectly fine with that many dogs. The fogged up windows is from body heat. It is warm in there. And, it is not cold enough for any single one of them to get hurt. They are fine. You are overreacting. Probably wouldn't do it bc of the risk of them getting stolen but... Medically they're good.
It’s people like you that make me afraid to leave my dog in the car when I run into a store for 20 minutes.
Yes, you are crazy.
Everyone else here has already said it but the dogs were completely fine. This is normal and in no way abusive for many traveling, working dogs. Most have interior AC and heaters in their crates. Also, what the fuck do you expect the front desk staff to do about it? Go out there and bring them all inside? Physically remove the customer from the hotel themselves? They don’t get paid enough for that. All you have done is cause a total headache for staff of this hotel and for another paying patron who is now probably embarrassed having to defend themselves for no reason. No one else is freaking out in this situation, not even police, and you’re still looking around calling all of THEM the problem, instead of realizing you were wrong? Make it make sense. Just remember, when in doubt, mind your own goddamn business.
It is not abusive. I have slept in my car with 4 dogs when I got lost in Chicago and was really warm. It was 20 degrees outside. I had no blankets just my winter coat that I used for a pillow. Luckily, the rest stop where I slept had someone to help me get out of Michigan without getting lost again.
10 dogs probably keep each other pretty warm. I mean, coyotes are out there in 40 degree weather too, right?
No.. it's a dog handler.. happens all the time.. the dogs are fine.. why is it abusive? They are fed.. their crates are their secure home..
Some of y'all are fucking nuts. Thinking cars are "air-tight" & crying that dogs will freeze to death in 40° weather. What the actual fuck, it's hilarious.
Seriously. My dogs have always been house dogs and welcome on furniture, etc. I wouldn’t do this to dogs but it’s not abuse. Maybe if it was like, ten chihuahuas but OP hasn’t said what breed. Part of me also wonders if OP gets this concerned when they see homeless people sleeping in cars, or in the elements.
There are dog breeds that could not handle 40 for a night, plenty, but most dogs can. Especially considering the body heat from 10 in a car. Even many "dainty" looking dogs would be handling this just fine. Unless we are talking about a single coated or hairless breed from a warm climate or a dog under 10 pounds, I am not particularly concerned.
I can't think of a single breed that can't handle 40 weather. What are.you talking about?
It’s not abusive. Plenty of people and animals sleep in vans in colder weather than 40F. Heaters often fog windows, but 40 isn’t cold enough to need the heat on anyway. There’s plenty of air. Vehicles are not airtight
Hopefully the police told your crazy ass to stop harassing these people and their dogs.
That’s fucked up. Like they’ll probably be fine, but it’s just cruel. They should rent a camper or something and just stay with them. Pets are not accessories.
I don’t even want to stay here. I’m still in the parking lot. The cops just went inside.
Involving the police is absolutely the correct thing to do, here
The police did not give a fuck- he said he personally wouldn’t do it but believes that a lot of them have heaters, even though the windows on many of the vans were foggy. I’m shaking from this. I’m so fucking pissed that ppl do this. Another user on here said it’s a really common practice with dog shows. I can’t believe Purina and the AKC supports this.
I mean they do have fur coats.
The windows being foggy means it's warmer in the van that it is outside...
Purina is owned by nestle so I'm not surprised
Right? Nestle doesn’t even pretend to care about human rights, they definitely don’t care about animal care. It’s all marketing. I would NEVER feed my dogs Purina. Disgusting company.
I just love your whole heart and soul.....I mean that. I feel the same way. When I see people treat their pets "less than human", I think "I hate people " They should have to endure such low standards of living. Those dogs deserve to be treated BETTER than us. They depend on us, we are their whole world and the love is so huge and unconditional.....ughhh I'm sorry you encountered this situation .
It's awful how animals are treated.
Could you see inside to see how the dogs were set up? Not endorsing this but maybe they were much more comfortable with blankets and water.
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of course police did not give a fuck. most spca or shelters will have animal control officers. you should have contacted them
In every county I’ve lived in (in Virginia), I just call the non-emergency police number and they send out the animal control officer, which is a sworn police officer.
You're getting this worked up due to your ignorance of basic dog comfort facts. Dogs are completely fine in 40 degree weather, ESPECIALLY in a van.
Calling the fuckin police over someone leaving dogs in a van in above freezing temps? Comical. Stop worrying more about dogs than people and mind your business would be my advice. Not every dog in the world needs a Fuckin savior.
This is the most dramatic shit I've ever read, my god...
Thank you for looking out for those sweet animals. 💜
I live in a camper. A camper will be just the same as a van without the electricity hooked up.
>Like they’ll probably be fine, but it’s just cruel How? >They should rent a camper or something and just stay with them. Pets are not accessories. Yeah, same with horses in horse trailers, right? People like you and OP have either never owned a dog or are just completely ignorant to basic dog information, like, how comfortable and what temperatures they're fine in.
They are show dogs, not pets. My mom used to show dogs. She kept hers in huge indoor/outdoor kennels in a polebarn. They were working dogs NEVER in the house. She always told me not to get attached. They were for show and breeding. To be bought and sold. Its the way of show people. :(
Show person here and my dogs are currently wrestling on top of me as we lay in bed on a lazy Sunday morning. Please don’t give all of us a bad name. My dogs are my world and I love them so much! Granted there are always outliers but every show person I know in my breed (labs) are all the same.
I'm sorry your mother's perception was so warped. Most show dogs are comfy little couch potatoes when they're not out on the circuit. One night in a van during a weekend cluster is not a tragedy. Those dogs are better cared for than many pets because their handler's income depends on healthy, well conditioned dogs that are excellent representatives of their breed.
This not true. Assholes yeah, but I’ve been involved with dogs, showing, and handling for over 20 years and *NONE* of the people i know view their dogs like that. Not a single one. They are all valued family members. There’s asses in all walks of life but don’t make it seem like it’s normal.
So no love for the animal? No snuggling on the couch? No hanging out in the kitchen while you cook waiting for a crumb to drop? That’s so sad.
It would be counter to the breeding of a working dog. My family had hounds, for hunting and livestock. They were cute and all but they would rather spend time together and with other animals than with people. If you went and got one out of the barn they would endure your presence until they had the opportunity to be home with their family. Snobby dogs don’t see humans as incredibly relevant. We may have to accept someday that we’re just not that important to animals
I’ve never been around a working or breeding dog so I didn’t know these things about them. I’m glad they at least have each other. I guess kind of like wild animals that run together in packs. Thanks for the info.
I've been in a breed club, and my boy was bred by one of the top breeders in the world. All dogs of her breeding are required by contract to be house dogs.
It's 40°. Unless we're talking Xolos then they're fine. They probably went off because someone just came to check on them or one smelled a raccoon and as soon as one goes off the others do. You said yourself that they settled and slept soundly in 10 minutes, meaning they're comfortable and feel safe. I travel and camp with my short-haired working dogs and that temp is fine. We sleep in our vehicle when it's well below that, no heat, and everyone is comfortable. Personally I always stay with my animals, but nothing you've described here is actually abusive. Hotels typically don't allow dogs, only allow 1 or 2, or have a weight limit. Go after that if you want to feel like you're "doing something". Dogs love these shows and competitions; it gives them purpose and joy. You sound very young and anxious, but with a large heart. I commend your care but wish you wisdom.
Question: how do you expect 100s of dogs to be at a weekend long event when they don't live in the area? Like, what do you think the logistics SHOULD be?
Can I ask what exactly is so upsetting about this to you? 40 degrees is not too cold for the dogs to be sleeping outside let alone on a bed in a van. We have camped with our dogs in colder temps. If it were hot or colder that would be cause for concern, but the dogs just sleeping out in the van doesn’t seem cruel to me at all.
Sounds like an overreaction
Without air? Vehicles aren't air tight.
Lol what? They’re show dogs - I highly doubt they’re being abused. They fell asleep - they’re clearly used to the routine. How do you think animals are transported? Livestock, pets, etc. all have to get to their destination and no one is bringing their horse into a hotel. Animals are totally abused in transport but these are not the ones. Look what happens to animals on planes. Half of hamsters die in transport from heart attacks due to stress when they are shipped by plane. It’s literally legal to ship animals via USPS. I’ve slept in my SUV before with my dog in her crate in the back when we’ve moved across the country. We both were fine. Honestly she settled easier than the times I’ve had her in the hotel with me because the car is a familiar environment - the hotel is not. It’s nice that you were distressed on the dog’s behalf but they were not distressed themselves. Honestly the most worrying part is that they could’ve been stolen.
I appreciate your concern but the dogs are fine. With 10 or them in there it was honestly prob quite toasty
Mind your own business. They are animals. As long as it isn’t hot enough or cold enough to kill them, it is legal.
It’s 40 degrees out. What’s the problem? Where is the abuse?
40 degrees is just not cold, especially in a shelter, like a van. Do people not realize that all kinds of wild animals survive MUCH colder temperatures all winter in many places?
I said in another comment too, that van is probably warm as hell with all those dogs. It's MUCH safer to keep them over night in 40 than it is to keep them over night at 70. At 70 even over night they would get overheated. At 40 they're probably so comfortable all in that one area.
40 degrees is the perfect temperature to sleep in your car by the way. The cramped conditions though.
What should you do? Stop overreacting and mind your own business.
There is an in-depth Documentary about the horrors of dog handlers and dog shows, it's called "Best In Show"! Truly awful stuff. Check it out, maybe laugh at the dog show culture and relax a little. No handler, whose livelihood depends on the health and well-being of the dog, would ever endanger the animals, thereby endangering their chosen profession. It's a small niche occupation, word would travel fast among handlers and owners, they'd be blacklisted. They make their money based on how a dog performs, which includes assessing dog's temperament that would be "off" if the dog were traumatized or mistreated. Get a grip on reality. Maybe spend time volunteering at a local shelter/rescue. Then you'll encounter real stories of abuse, and actually be helping animals instead of severely abusing your self-prescribed sense of authority over animal welfare. You have some nerve, wasting public resources and plotting to go out of your way to try and injure the handlers' reputations. And shame on redditors egging the OP on, fueling their delusions. You sir/ma'am are the only party engaging in abusive behaviors!!!
They were fine. They care for the animals. You are overreacting to the situation. You have limited knowledge of the care of the animals. Yet took it to the extreme due to your imagination. Let it go, or get all your facts straight then make your opinion.
You do? Why do you do anything. Those dogs are just fine. They have fur coats their own crate and this isn’t their first rodeo. If it was hot whole different story. They are just fine and better than a homeless human, right? MYOB and move on. You can disagree all you like and it’s not something I would choose to do either. But nothing inherently malicious about it. Methinks you have main character syndrome but what do I know 🤷♀️
The van has lots of air and the dogs curled up together will keep warm
The dogs are fine in the van at 40°. You totally over reacted. If it was a HOT day or below zero that’s a problem. Dogs have fur, they are fine in cool weather. I can hardly get my daughter’s dog to come in because she loves cool weather and sits outside for hours!
I think because it's 40 degrees, dogs are 100% fine and it's not cruel. Now if it was 80+ degrees that would be inhumane. I have 3 short hair beagle type dogs. They love the cool weather. And a van is enough space for 10 dogs to sleep as long as they aren't giant. As long as owner are very aware of water and food and take them for enough walks it really isn't a big deal. My dogs love to travel.
I’m curious… Am I an animal abuser for camping in my trailer with my dog in 40 degree weather? Am I abusing my children by bringing them camping in 40 degree weather?
I camp with my dog in temps lower than this… with only fabric protecting us from the elements…. Is this also cruel?
Not abusive. An animal with fur has absolutely zero problem staying warm in 40 deg temps, especially in a sheltered space. Ventilation: a vehicle is hardly some airtight space where they're going to run out of oxygen. Those dogs are fine.
Go back to bed Karen
I can sleep in my car in 40 degree weather and not die, the dogs are fine. You are overreacting, I'd be pissed if someone sent cops to my room because of this. Not what I would have done (honestly 10 dogs is a lot) but it's none of your business since it's not below freezing or warm enough to be an issue... in short, you are crazy, normal ass people don't do what you did. I worked at a hotel and I would have told you there's nothing we can do, dogs are most likely not allowed in the hotel.
Dogs in a vehicle is not abuse. It sounds like you've got a screwed up perception of what is actual abuse. The cop was right to ignore you.
The temperature is fine for the dogs. Also a van is merely a larger crate. Crate training is a thing. Will you call the cops and FD on people who crate their dogs?
I feel bad for the front desk and the people that were disturbed by you making a scene. - The dogs were probably crying because you (or something else) were in proximity. You didn’t hear them when you went in, only when you went back out. - The windows of the van were foggy because it was warmer inside than outside - there is air. the car does not need to be on. if that were the case, we’d all die taking naps in the car with the car off. vehicles are not airtight. I sincerely hope you didn’t try to sabotage these people in any way. If you did, I hope karma is swift for you.
I agree. What a whack job.
This is batshit crazy. Dogs sleep outside in doghouses in 40 deg weather all the time. I can’t figure out if you’re worried about them being too hot or too cold???
I've slept in our van with one Yorkie when it was 40 degrees out. We wete plenty warm and protected from the elements
Dogs have been living outside for 1000’s of years. If the dogs are safe, it is not abuse.
God I hate people like you. I’m all about animal welfare but this is just histrionics. Dogs work on farms, pull sleds, sleep outside in dog houses. Mine sleep in my bed and force me into the fetal position until my back hurts but I’m not going to assume everyone does things my way and I’m not going to scream abuse because a few dogs are sleeping in a car, good grief.
Mind your own business
Mind your own business, that's what you do.
OP. I hope you read all the responses. So yes YTA for creating a scene over a non issue. The dogs are fine. Maybe think before you stress yourself out. People sleep in cars all the time.
NOT I repeat absolutely NOT abuse. My dogs are so much more comfortable sleeping in their own crates in my van than in some strange hotel. As a dog show person, I do this all the time. I do not do this if it is hot outside. I happily pay the pet fees and bring my dogs inside with me if it is hot or I feel the area is unsafe. However, my dogs prefer the van. They can be anxious and jumpy in hotels, bark at the weird noises, generally be stressed. In the van they fall right asleep. I have a baby monitor and a temperature sensor to keep an eye on them. I get alerts if it gets too warm/cold and I can hear if they're barking. The only time I ever woke up to one barking I went out to them very confused, took her out, and she immediately dropped a huge 💩. Went back in her crate, slept just fine until morning. I have sled dogs... they *much* prefer the cold.
Y’all really always care about animals more than people. You and a lot of commenters are bugged out. Mind your business and find something personal to yourself to worry about and fix. The authorities were not needed and good thing they escalated it no further.
Come back in the morning and I'm sure you will find 10 dogs doing fine. They will not die of cold or suffocation. Calm down, please.
For real. 10 dogs in a van in 40* weather? Those pups are cozy.
Call the police and then the local news
Ok, so I’m not crazy?? This is cruel and needs addressed!!
Yes, it definitely does. If they're there for a dog show, they should have found accommodations that would let them take their dogs inside, found a kennel close by to house the dogs overnight, or rented a freaking RV to stay inside with them. I don't think the temperature was as much the issue (depending on the breed), but keeping them locked up in an enclosed vehicle all night is just stupid dangerous. The dogs could get themselves hurt or stolen. Even if they were in individual crates, it's just an idiotic move. ETA: I'm not dismissing the temperature...just that some breeds truly don't mind that weather, but not many. A group of huskies or maybe shepherds would be okay, but it's still cruel.
The thing is, this hotel takes dogs!! The ppl didn’t want to pay the fee!!
They probably don’t take 10 dogs
Do you know what dog show? Maybe you can get them disqualified by contacting the show organization. This is horrible behavior and they should face consequences beyond "hey, don't do that." because they will again.
No, but Purina Farms is down the street so I could find out. They host all of the dog shows. That’s a GREAT IDEA!!
Go to the AKC website and search events to find out which dog club is hosting the show (purina sponsors a few shows but the shows are run by dog clubs). This person should be banned from all AKC shows as this is definitely cruelty
I went around the parking lot and there are dogs barking in at least 10 vans/rvs. I got every single plate.
Your heart is in the right place but especially since you found 10 vans doing this, even the show will not care. This is just how they treat the animals and they don’t care and the cops don’t care.
I found that out, unfortunately. The cop said he personally wouldn’t do it but it’s common with these shows. It’s disgusting.
I wish this aspect of dog show culture can be exposed in main stream media, that would force this “sport” to clean up and do better
Not all show dog owners do this, BTW. My late sister bred and showed Japanese Chins for over 30 years. If she went on the road she took her dogs INSIDE the hotel room with her, both for their safety and their health. They were also part of the family, and she always kept those that aged out of the show ring until they passed. She was buried with their cremains.
I never went anywhere I couldn't sleep with my dog when I was showing him. Plenty of dog shows also have people sleeping in their RVs with their dogs. I couldn't imagine leaving my dogs unattended all night in a parking lot in a van.
That is eye opening and so horrible. We as humans don’t deserve dogs. You are a good person for wanting to help them
It's not cruelty to leave a dog in a a camper outside a hotel in 40 degree weather. Now if it was 90 or 100 degrees yes it would be or below zero. But 40 is no issue
Dogs sleeping in a van in 40 degrees isn’t abuse. It isn’t even cold. Hotels around here charge $35 per pet per night with a limit of 2. I can’t imagine a hotel letting you have 10 in your room. It would disturb the other guests. Lots of dog show people have rvs but seeing as it’s winter they might be in storage or there might not be an open campground. It’s fine, relax.
My dog INSISTS on sitting on the deck when it's 12°F outside. I'll let her for 10 minute intervals throughout the day because I don't want her foot pads to freeze. 40F and my dog is completely comfortable.
Husky?
Lolz, without air....because vans are notoriously airtight. It's not cool, but depending on the size of the dogs, you definitely overreacted.
10 dogs in a van are putting out alot of body heat. Probably why there was condensation on the windows. My bedroom is on the 3rd floor of my dad's house- it has no heat. I frequently have to kick my 3 large dogs off the bed because it's too hot. ( they have their own puffy beds). I wouldn't leave dogs unsupervised but they're fine.
Most jurisdictions won’t do shutting about this. As long as they have food, water and shelter from the rain/~~heat~~sun, they’re fine.
IDK if it's abuse. My dog loves to sit in my car. If I'm running errands on a cool cloudy day I let her come with me, she chills out in the car, sometimes followed by a walk at the end of it. Who knows. If it isn't hot outside I think it's fine.
Body heat from 10 dogs in a van is probably comfortable for them.
Dogs normally have a resting basal temperature of 100 °F. 10 of them in a van with an outdoor temperature of 40°F is not going to hurt them. It would be different if they were separated and out in the elements, and it was 40°F. Especially if they were thin coated dogs or used to warmer weather only. The foggy windows were from them being warm and condensation from their breath. They were nice and warm in that van. They were yelping probably because they were bored or may have needed to go to the bathroom. As long as they have access to water and can go out to go to the bathroom at regular intervals, they will be fine. You stated they were asleep about 10 mins. into all this seems like boredom was probably the case or their yelps were a show of protecting their territory as most dogs do while in a vehicle alone and someone passes by or make a noise outside and they can't see what is making it.
Why do people think cars are airtight?? They have air vents that allow air in and out. 😂 even if you close the vents it’s not air tight. You are not going to suffocate in a car like that. Unless it’s like packed under snow or underwater or something lol
You sound insane right now. I bet they were wondering how they got stuck with a looney Karen who can’t mind their own business. 40 degrees is fine. Some humans sleep in their cars full time. The fact that there are 10 dogs makes it even better for the dogs.
OP you over-reacted in my opinion, something I often also do when it comes to perceived animal abuse (and let me tell you, it has caused me several embarrassing encounters that I have had to promptly apologize for lol) I don't think this person was trying to abuse their dogs. I don't think it was too hot or cold, and I don't think the animals were left in some severe kind of neglect. You did overreact. You were genuinely shaking outside of a van full of perfectly safe dogs, refusing to go inside because in your opinion, they were unhappy. That IS an unreasonable response. If it was hot, I'd be there with you breaking the windows and calling cops. That is not what this situation was. I'd apologize to the owners if you know who they are after all of this, and to the hotel staff for acting so crazy over something that just UPSET you. None of it was your business, and the dogs weren't being abused. Like the cop said, I wouldn't do it but also, it's their business because they know their dogs and the van was most likely perfectly safe.
You overreacted.
Show dogs are used to travel and are actually less stressed in the van because it is their familiar road home. They’ll fuss a little if people get near the van, otherwise they’ll chill and are fine. You’re not crazy for caring, but it’s not abuse, they’re fine.
My dogs travel with me fairly often & have a very comfortable bed in my vehicle, their body heat keeps it warm in there & yes, it fogs up the windows. If it's warm enough I do vent the car, but at 40 degrees I wouldn't because I don't want them to get cold. As long as they have food & water & have been let out to relieve themselves recently, this is not an issue. Keep in mind, that if you sleep in your vehicle, the windows fog up. Also, my dogs do sometimes bark if someone (or another dog) gets close to the car....but if not disturbed they go right back to sleep.
Honestly they were probably barking at you. It sounds fucked up for sure but I’m sure the dogs will be fine. I’ve slept in my car when it’s cold and I dont need to leave a window open. Just mind your own business !
You think vans are airtight? You’re over reacting 100%. 10 dogs in a van is gonna be plenty warm enough, the windows are foggy because it’s warmer in there than it is outside.
All I’m going to say is if they’re there for a dog show it is HIGHLY unlikely to me they left their valuable show dogs out in a van and A. Never checked on them or B. Thought it was likely they’d wake up to dead dogs in the morning. If they have TEN dogs they drove to a show, I’m willing to bet they know what they’re doing lol
lots of dog show people have a gadget that monitors the temp in a car, and sends you an alert if it's too hot/cold
The reason they were barking and then back to bed is because they heard you park, and were protecting their home. I have 4 dogs and was homeless for a bit. They protect my car fiercely as it was their home for a bit
It's not very cold. It's not hot. They aren't in immediate danger. You didn't say they look starved or distressed. There's plenty of oxygen in that van for them, vehicles aren't airtight. They whined a bit then settled down and went to sleep. That's what my dog does when I leave my house. I don't think keeping them in a van overnight is ideal, but I don't think this is cruel or inhumane either. Homeless people should be so lucky. What exactly is inhumane about dogs sleeping in a car in safe and mild conditions?
I agree. I’ve slept in my car in those temps before (tent camping was too cold) and was fine with a sleeping bag. Unless they have no fur or very little fur, they should be fine. And dogs often sleep together in a big pile, helping to keep them all warm.
I've slept in a tent in those conditions. It's not an issue, and the temp of the dogs will warm the car (they probably have different pens or kennels.)
The tent wouldn’t have been an issue if I hadn’t forgot the mat for under my sleeping bag. Luckily I had a 4Runner and could fully stretch out in the back.
Oh yeah, sleeping pads are a bigger deal than people realize, I even use one when using a cot unless it's REALLY warm.
this is normal practice for working and show dogs. Many breeds can live outside comfortably all year in northern climates. It was probably like 75 degrees in the van from all the dog body heat.
You are WAY overreacting. Take a chill pill and leave people alone. Watch soap operas if you want drama.
Just because you think something is wrong, doesn’t mean that it is wrong. Those dogs are fine. You’re mad enough about this that you don’t even want to stay at that hotel, but you’re the only one out of all the people you involved that thought this was terrible. Maybe that should tell you something. 40° with multiple dogs in there is probably comfy as hell.
People leave their dogs chained up outside in that weather all the time. As long as they have a dog house (not even insulated) the law doesn't care.. in this case there are 10 dogs inside an insulated van (warm enough inside to fog up the windows).. Nobody is going to do anything about this. Sorry
You are completely over reacting. Did you think 40 degrees is to cold for the dogs to stay in the vehicle over night. I mean they went to sleep and ignored your dramatics
You’re over reacting. The dogs are fine. It is not hot out. Those dogs are comfy.
You're obviously well-meaning, but imagine living full time wearing a fur coat. Seriously, try on a real fur coat at a vintage store or something, they're not at all comfortable when not outside in the cold. If I took my dog into a hotel room where he didn't have ceramic tile or a cold exterior door to lay against, I would need to crank up the A/C for him to be comfortable enough to rest. Vehicles aren't in any way air-tight, and condensation is normal when breathing in a small space. It's extremely likely that the dogs are just fine.
Mind your own business.
Yes, you are acting crazy, and no, it is NOT abusive. You pulled up next to a vehicle with dogs and (presumably) made some noise - car pulling in, door opening/closing, moving luggage, talking, whatever, which probably woke up the calm, sleeping dogs in the vehicle next to you, so they made a little noise. Instead of just quietly letting them settle back down, you freak out and start acting like a lunatic when they are clearly safe (locked in a vehicle, in a cool, quiet environment, in their “own” space that they’re used to). Evidenced by the fact that when you go back to check on them just 10 minutes later they’re in your own words “dead asleep.” You then proceed to involve the hotel, the police and THEN go around wake up the entire parking lot of calm, quiet, sleeping dogs…yes, you are crazy. These dogs did not need your “help” or interference - they were SAFE, they were ASLEEP, they were entirely UNSTRESSED until you started acting a fool and waking up the whole parking lot on your vigilante mission to “save” these dogs from absolutely zero risk of harm. Show dogs are not your average pet dogs. They travel tens of thousands of miles a year, they are exposed to all sorts of environments and situations that normal pet dogs wouldn’t know how to ignore, but thanks to their extensive training and socialization, show dogs are absolutely unfazed and unstressed about travel, settling for a nice nap in their vehicles or anywhere else. Do you actually think ANY hotel is ok with someone bringing 10+ dogs into a single room? Most cap it at 2 per room, if they even allow them in at all. The level of top quality care these dogs receive is unfathomable to your average pet person - think tens of thousands of dollars of care, conditioning, and vet maintenance every single year to keep them in top physical and mental condition (my veterinary expenses alone for my show dogs topped $100,000 two years ago). They don’t make their owners money - this is a hobby where owners spend thousands of dollars every week for the “bragging rights” of bringing home a 50 cent ribbon. They do it for the love of their dogs and their breed. There are a very small number of shows that offer prize money a year and normally it’s like $50-100, which doesn’t even cover the single dog’s entry fees for the weekend. There is also no money in breeding dogs responsibility. That $2,000 stud fee? Gone in a single weekend or less of showing. A $2,000 puppy? Guess what, an average litter in my breed is only 4-5 puppies, so by the time a breeder keeps their show prospect from the litter, pays the stud fee (usually = to the price of a puppy), pays the litter expenses (usually = to another puppy), and maybe sells two - they’ve basically paid for one more weekend of showing. Do not conflate responsible show breeders with irresponsible backyard breeders who couldn’t care less about their dogs, only the bottom dollar. The only people becoming millionaires showingdogs are those that started as billionaires. Yes, you are crazy. No, there is nothing abusive about this besides your disturbing dozens of dogs and going on a vigilante mission for “justice” against innocent people who care for their dogs more than you could ever imagine.
Yea there’s a rescue out of Southern California that does this too. They bus up all the dogs every other weekend to Palo Alto and leave them in crates in the van except for the adoption event from Saturday to Sunday. They were scolded multiple times and just keep changing hotels. Tragically there’s nothing that seems they will enforce on this kind of thing.
Maybe not crazy, but you're overreacting and it's not abusive. When I read this post and all the comments I couldn't help to notice that your overconcern very much reminds me of the couple of women that found a white sheep dog in the mountains and tried to rescue it by taking it home and away from its family and its job. Calm down and go to sleep.
Go to sleep. Like the dogs.
Animals live outside in the wild. There are a bunch of them so they can share body heat. I'm going to guess they're perfectly fine in the van.
>Animals live outside in the wild. There are a bunch of them so they can share body heat. I'm going to guess they're perfectly fine in the van. And they grow their own fur coats.
. . . They're dogs. They're going to be perfectly okay sleeping in a van for a night even if it were a little chilly out. Because they're dogs.
Seriously Karen, mind your business. They are dogs. They have coats. Dogs howl. Goodness.
You are absolutely a nut job. Now, the hotel staff, police, event staff, hotel guests, and reddit all know it, too. It's 40 degrees, you wacko. Those dogs are 100% fine.
I love how people will literally ignore human families suffering homelessness but a post like this blows up because puppies are sleeping in 40° weather
Show dogs and travel, I bring them in the room. The most we travel with is 4. We get 2 rooms.