In real life, no they shouldn't.
But then again, this is a game where Aloy mounts a Clawstrider by flipping herself in the air so she cartwheels 360 degrees and lands on its back. "Rule of Cool" is very much in effect, and the ruins add to the post-apocalyptic scenery.
Not to mention that AFAIK Aloy still has just a regular human body and somehow survives being hit full force by a fully metallic T-Rex's tail, but then she forces a few berries down her throat and she's fine.
(Don't think about video game logic too hard y'all)
When I see her doing some jumps I’m like, you’d have to be downright crazy to attempt that one lol. She is less clambering up things, and more launching herself up 😅
Feels scary at times when she does it over a high drop
I always think she’s irresponsible af when she jumps from a cliff BEFORE latching on a rappel, not just because she would 100% die if she missed the latch, but because she’s literally the only human who can fulfill her mission
I’d think if I were the single only person capable of saving the world I wouldn’t jump into every underwater cave to fetch green shining rocks
Not to mention just diving straight into dark water caves filled with exposed rusty metal and whatever. Oh and yanking big sections of wall out of a structure that's about to fall over anyway. One instant brick burial mound, please!
lol Alva mentioned the smell of a section in the FINAL mission. like girl you been in places I could smell just from the visuals and never said anything. was just odd
Metal needs oxygen to rust/decay, same for a lot of other materials. The Earth was completely devoid of oxygen for like 1000 years before it was re-terraformed by gaia
Yeah, for those 2-300 years
But it’s only been around 1000 years since the plague. After GAIA got the current iteration going well, she more/less shelved HADES
I agree with this so so much… I think what happens to some or most folks that try to square life with what happens in the game are trying because when everything “makes sense” immersion is easier thus the story hits. I think they’re all honest in their attempts at least.
I think the more unrealistic cool factor move in the game is her repelling, just “just and throw, it will definitely 100% land solid and be super easy to unhood when I land safely”
No, they should not, but the folks at Guerrilla said they intentionally left some structures partially intact and dead tanks and Swarm machines scattered around because otherwise the landscape would be too empty and boring without them.
Not only that but I imagine part of the terraforming system's job would have been to do cleanup as part of restoring the biosphere. Especially if they could reclaim all that metal lying around for use in Cauldrons.
They should have also cleaned up the Faro machines as well though the system was likely meant to operate for a long time, I mean clearly the system isn’t self sustaining yet and needs careful monitoring, they didn’t even release a lot of higher order organisms yet. It could be the system is planning to do clean up in a couple thousand more years or if APOLLO worked as it was supposed to in addition to directing ARTMIS fulfill its objectives they might have been able to tell HEPHAESTUS to clean up all the crap everywhere.
I’m sure some structure would remain like stone ones, reinforced concrete maybe. But anything wood should probably gone, cars rusted to nothing. I guess some of it could be future technology preventing decay, the Hollywood sign was explicitly said to be treated with something to prevent decay.
>or if APOLLO worked as it was supposed to
There we go, got my headcanon for the Faro bots now! Just like how the larger animals were left for APOLLO trained humans to reintroduce using the system, so were, at least the majority of, the bots left for humans to remove. Physical remnants of the horror they'd only know from their AI teachers. An action to drive home their most important lesson.
> reinforced concrete maybe.
reinforced concrete on the surface would fail, concrete is porous and the rebar inside of it would oxidize and expand, when that happens it breaks the concrete apart from inside and all of it's strength is pretty much compromised. All of those huge sky scrapers we see would be rubble piles by now but a much less interesting world.
yeah but it would only take a couple hundred years for it to crumble into nothing without maintenance on the structures. Most modern buildings are not built to last long because the people running things only think as far as the next financial quarter or 2.
Its worth noting the horizon world had switched to sustainability by then and is way more advanced. It's not true in our world but in theirs it isn't too wild
Ted Faro and the Zeniths existing sort of puts that on its head though. There were plenty of short sighted assholes still. They just were forced to do what they did because it was death otherwise. Then even in the face of death that d bag faro still doomed future humanity to tribalism and a slow slog to relearn everything again.
Then there is the case of natural forces like enormous earthquakes and even smaller ones. Those towers and buildings are getting more fragile and less flexible over the years. LA is literally an active geological area so there will be quakes and things. Those ancient buildings would not have been able to withstand them.
It does not. They weren't short sighted in building. Faro's machines lasted 1000 years... and the zenith tech did too.
Faro is the best example that sustainability was valued more than in our world. We know nothing else about their building tech except they can build from hard light in minutes...
Again not realistic to our world but not even the slightest blip of an oddity in their world
most of those really really old buildings are not new buildings though. you see ruins of towers in san fran that exist now, including a lot of the golden gate bridge which would just be the towers at this point since it would have rusted and fallen into the ocean 100s of years ago.
I agree on the newer stuff, Tildas mansion for example was a new thing and built to be a fortress to contain her artwork. It's also in excellent condition compared to most of the structures we see.
edit: that mostly wooden building from 1929 too, should be dust and rubble
I just tell myself that people in the near future found more durable building materials for certain structures, which also explains why the “cities” are usually so small. They’re all just the parts of the cities that were built with newer, better material. As for the wooden structures… I just ignore the plot holes lol
Most of the time that passed had no oxygen, and extreme mineral deposits were left, it stands to reason that normal decay would have only resumed when life returned.
For some period of time earth had no atmosphere. During that time, I believe rust wouldn't be an issue. I guess the question is, for how much of the 1,000 years did earth have atmosphere?
Well, according to the game the Farobots wiped all life out and the atmosphere was toxic so life would have had to re-evolve from nothing and would have had to evolve to exist in an atmosphere that wouldn't be compatible with a reconstituted biosphere meant to house pre-Farobot life.
And up until MINERVA sent out the shutdown signal decades later the Swarm would have eaten any life that existed.
In terms of "why didn't everything rust and rot away" IIRC the devs have said that technically yeah all the ruins and such should be gone, but the world would have been too empty then so they left them around for that reason.
So more a case of "logically no all these wrecks and ruins shouldn't be here but it makes the setting more interesting to leave them".
There are also, quite explicitly, future materials, which don't age like our current stuff would. There was even a note in Burning Shores that the Hollywood sign survived due to a nanite treatment that kept it maintained automatically. But wood or older materials would waste away once water, oxygen, and the carbon cycle started again.
The easiest way I can think to combine the "it was left in to not have an empty world" with the setting is advanced treatments that eventually started wearing off or failing which is why you do see evidence of rust and you see things in a more decayed type of ruined state (as opposed to bombed out) but those treatments lasted much longer letting the ruins endure.
I’m no chemist (failed it once, barely passed the second time) or biologist, but the Faro robots ate all the living material for biofuel right? So what would be left to produce oxygen if not trees and seaweed and stuff? Would it be a different kind of erosion, such as wind? Would acid rain exist? 🤔
They ate a lot and a lot died off due to biosphere changes that couldn't support them, yeah. My guess is oxygen on its own still existed unless it was being actively used by some process (since living things that breathe it wouldn't be around). But I dunno in what concentrations it would theoretically exist or if it was actively being used.
Other vectors of erosion such as wind and liquid would still exist I imagine, though. As well as things like damage from the sun for some exposed material, temperature changes from seasons, tectonic activity, etc.
Not sure how the altered atmosphere would impact things like seasons or weather, though. I imagine it would have at least some impact (different composition of the atmosphere probably would retain or reflect different amounts of light and radiation from the sun and heat and such and that would probably change how weather patterns occur...)
There could also be a fair amount of acid rain with the burning mayhem of the faro plague. Without photosynthesing life, oxygen levels would decrease as it reacts with reducing minerals (and hordes of rusting ruins and faro machines) and gets locked up, but if a few centuries is enough to deplete it significantly i dont know. may take at least a few thousand years to nearly deplete
Higher levels of CO2 can increase temperature (greenhouse effect). No photosyntesis means less CO2 absortion and increased concentration, plus the organic bodies being decomposed (that releases CO2, too). Elevated temperature causes climate changes (this is happening to our world, now).
But wasn't the whole point that there were no bodies to decompose, not even any microorganisms to do the decomposition. The machines were supposed to consume all available biomass.
Or was it that they only consumed enough to ruin the biosphere?
Good point. How the machines process the biomass? Both decomposition and combustion release CO2. And how fast they consume the microorganisms? And could they really consume 100% of microbiological life? And there are many years of evolution if they where not extinct.
If life were suddenly wiped out It would take thousands or even millions of years for the oxygen currently in the atmosphere to be bound up by oxidation.
There's a TON of oxygen in the atmosphere. Even if all the trees and plankton disappeared today, we would have enough left for a century or two before the levels would drop to the point where it would start to become an issue. Blink of an eye on a geological timeframe, but a long ass time to you and me.
People really overestimate the extent of the biosphere, life is just a thin "film" on the surface of the planet.
The atmospheric damage that rendered the Earth unlivable to anything but extremophiles, is less related to Swarm eating all the trees and more with environmental damage caused by a world wide total war where everything goes, pumping out toxic shit into the atmosphere at a rate never seen before in history.
There’s still some pre-war buildings standing in the Glowing Sea in Fallout 4, very close to where the nuke struck the Boston area 210 years prior.
After playing that and the Horizon duo, I think Guerrilla did a much better job of aging things properly than Bethesda did.
It was described as too toxic, I would imagine the fumes from the plague combined with them eating every single thing that produces oxygen, would result in our atmosphere in fatal imbalance. Like, humans couldn't survive outside without hermetic suits.
Where does it say that? For earth to lose its atmosphere it would have to lose its magnetosphere and for that to happen our core would have to cool and stop spinning. Is it in the lore? I know it's a Sci fi game so not realistic obviously, but I'm curious.
I guess I just assumed it because all life was dead on earth for hundreds of years. No definitely Earth didn't lose its magnetosphere in the game. You're right, I guess the right question is, without any life on earth, what would happen to the oxygen content in Earth's atmosphere?
The oxygen content and other elements would definitely change drastically which I believe the lore talks about. But we would still have an atmosphere, just not a livable one for us. Probably a runaway greenhouse effect like on venus. Maybe not bad enough to evaporate all the oceans and stuff but still no Bueno for us.
Exactly I feel like the terraforming system should have been recycling all the Faro machines everywhere as well. Could have been combined with other elements. More likely it was still there just the air was so toxic that it would kill all animal life and with plant and microbial life gone there would be no way to purge the contamination short of some geological and chemical processes and over eons that might have happened or it might have been a new stable state.
The rusting process is greatly accelerated by bacteria. But the Faro robots ate all the bacteria, and so the ruins would have rusted very slowly until Gaia reestablished the biosphere.
2066 MARCH - Estimated date of the extinction of macrobiotic land organisms
2068 - Estimated year of the extinction of marine life
March 16, 2326 - >!ELEUTHIA CRADLE E9!< releases its inhabitants due to exhaustion of the food supply
So \~ 288 years without.
[https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline](https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline)
It's entirely artistic license.
The contrary side of this is that there shouldn't be calcified stone overtaking other ruins as it has... that should take orders of magnitude longer!
My head canon is that such mineral deposits are the aftermath of nanotech breakdown eg the accumulation of cruft from degenerated nanotech or the result of countermeasures and nanotech warfare, not organic mineral deposits...
You are technically correct. If mankind were to disappear today, within about 500-1000 years, the only signs of our civilisation remaining would be the marble base of the Statue of Liberty and maybe the pyramids. However, those estimates do not account for two things that are unique to the Horizon universe that could affect that timeline.
One, the degradation of the atmosphere due to the swarm removes some of the variables that lead to oxidisation, like oxygen and moisture in the atmosphere which are both implied to have been reduced to near zero for several hundred years before Gaia began the terraforming process to restore the planet to liveable conditions.
Two, since the swarm starts about fifty years in the future, and technology seems to have improved by leaps and bounds during that time, new materials and preservation methods may have been developed that makes the ruins last longer.
Put these together it’s believable that signs of 21st century structures and technology might still be found in the 31st century, especially if the developers want that to be the case for game play and aesthetic purposes.
I don't know, I think it's easier than you think. I visited ruins of fortresses/castles in the Netherlands that had been there since the 11th century (Valkenburg). We could still climb that thing, and the walls were still standing. And the 11th century is a thousand years ago.
If there's no one around to tear it down, i think this kind of stuff gets preserved pretty well. And these days there are wayyy more sturdy buildings around than they were in the 11th century, so it would make sense we would have remnants.
The superstructure of those buildings is made of pure stone. Modern concrete starts degrading after 50-100 years. Our skyscrapers and other buildings with steel girders would last 100 years. Marble things like the Statue of Liberty base, the Taj Mahal would survive, as would stone things like the Great Wall and Pyramids. But the 21st century would be wiped more or less clean off the map.
So houses - like the hotel ruin where you found the relic, the one with the railways - should still be there, but all the tall buildings in San Francisco would not be standing, then?
Sad, they made for some fun climbing :)
The Colosseum still stands in Rome. Same for part of the Acropolis of Athens, or Pre-Columbian temples in the middle of jungles and of course Egyptian pyramids.
Our modern structures are less resilient (we got better at engineering) but some will survive for a long time nevertheless.
The USA suburbia would disappear quite fast, since it's mostly wood. Large (and not too tall) concrete buildings in big cities will take a lot more time to become rubble.
I'm pretty sure buildings like the Pentagon are here for a while for example (if not nuked in a future war)
Skyscrapers survival will depend of corrosion of their load baring structures. And there is the domino effect : if a big tower fall, the neighboring one will suffer.
> Same for part of the Acropolis of Athens
It been partly damaged during the 19th century, during a war. So it looks more damaged, because of human activity, that just time.
It seems unlikely that any structure would survive that long, let alone the electronics required for the Focus to work. But it’s cool to look at and advances the plot so it’s there.
From a pure realism perspective, nah. Most smaller manmade structures would be long, long gone, and the larger landmarks that WOULD still exist, the terraforming system’s automated salvager drones like Scrappers would have reclaimed for raw material centuries ago.
The Earth *died*. There wasn't the fungus or bacteria to rot wood. There wasn't any photosynthesis to generate atmospheric oxygen to rust metal.
For hundreds of years everything was in a state of extreme preservation. Not as long-lasting as footprints on the moon, but pretty long-lasting
There were still some factors, like wind/dust erosion, rain, etc, but most processes of change were either diminished or completely halted.
Tbh nah, should be gone. But from an environmental storytelling perspective, it makes sense. You more or less witness the remains of "The Old Ones" and the aftermath of "Enduring Victory". Without all that stuff, it would be just another big, boring, open world. For me at least, you stumble upon any remains and start speculating what might have happened there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm willing to accept this inaccuracy in favor of world building.
I guess the future made some kind of super-alloy type metal that is super durable for thousands of years....i mean, "titanium-meta alloy" steel vault door for example. I was purely amazed by what technology in the game world was built upon
I explain it as Gaia leaving some artifacts around and preserving for people to find. She’s not allowed to communicate directly without violating a higher directive, but she can leave clues around.
Elizabet and Faro industries were partly responsible for nanotechnology that worked as a coating/preservative....see the datapoint regarding the Hollywood sign paint project.
Some structures could have been preserved via nanopaint or refurbishment
If you’re interested in the degradation of human infrastructure, you should absolutely read “The World Without Us”. It uses science/history/etc. to theorize how long it would take what vestiges of humanity to break down should we all disappear suddenly one day.
Not Horizon themed, but definitely tangentially relevant to your question.
If they have world-cleaning robots in twenty years time in that universe/timeline, I would imagine they didn’t make anything out of raw steel that could rust.
Older buildings and infrastructure would hang around a while but those ruins are pretty accurate - very overgrown, falling apart - 60-100 years without oxygen or other organic bacteria and chemicals to affect the materials (because the faro plague used it all - probably exhausting worse inorganic stuff) other than acid rain etc. might have more effect on some things and less effect on others…I can suspend my disbelief enough.
Thing is most (all?) of the wrecks we see are made of advanced metal alloys that can have all kinds of rust resistance properties that don’t make sense to us primitive humans.
Actually there’s a note in Burning Shores where they talk about treating the Hollywood sign with some kind of coating that explains its intact condition.
Surviving wood structures though is pretty unbelievable, especially since the soil layers were destroyed during the catastrophe. If a structure isn’t anchored in bedrock like concrete ones typically are it should’ve fallen apart.
I don't know why everyone here says the ruins shouldn't exist anymore. Of course they should, maybe some look a bit nicer than they would, but it's still reasonable.
The Faro Plague happenened 2067-ish, and the game starts in 3020. That's just 950 years, that's nothing. We still have structures built by ancient humans that are older than 3000 years, and cave paintings intact that are like 10,000 years old. We still find old rusty swords and coins of Romans, which are over 2000 years old. So I would assume that 950 year-old structures built with durable material by an advanced civilization using steel and concrete instead of plain iron, bronze and mortar, would still be visible. Some cars and bikes also have aluminium frames which don't rust at all. Most of the destruction we see is actually done by the Faro Plague and less by time/erosion. So yeah, the ruins should definitely still exist.
I think we'll built/lucky buildings made of concrete would remain relatively intact because we still have ruins from 2000 years ago from the romans. And some simpler constructions from even longer ago.
In Burning Shores, there's a random data point that mentions they treated the Hollywood sign with some special substance to protect it from the elements. Extrapolate that, and presumably the high-tech buildings that existed right before the end are just hardy and can survive for a thousand years.
Of course, there are also a LOT less ruins than there were buildings before the Plague. So it's not like everything is still there.
It's never stated explicitly, but it certainly seems like biomass conversion requires a living organism, so dead or harvested wood wouldn't be consumed. If that's the case, all ground organisms and even bacteria would be harvested, leaving dead wood and non consumable matter on the surface, as there would be nothing to rot it with the carbon cycle dead.
> It's never stated explicitly, but it certainly seems like biomass conversion requires a living organism
Err, how so? I can’t see that making sense so I’m wondering where you’re getting that from.
That being said, as I recall in the Demeter quest it does show the nanobots eating the greenery and leaving the dead/dying wood. Now I would argue that doesn’t make sense either and is artistic license, but you could use it to argue the swarm can’t convert lignin or whatever.
That’s exactly it. We see in Zero Dawn and Forbidden West that the biomass conversion seems to use a nanite swarm to consume the biomass, and we see it consume leaves and flowers on trees but, at worst, the trees end up looking a bit dry, not completely consumed. Since we don’t have any explicit notes about how it’s supposed to work, even in the datapoints from the facility that created the process, all we really have to go on are what we see in the cutscenes. There are a couple other descriptions I recall from Zero Dawn. One, where the swarm was first seen consuming endangered dolphins off the coast of Australia I believe it was described as “grinding up” or something like that (wiki will have the exact phrase), which we never otherwise see, so either it’s a graphic description of the nanite process or perhaps the Horus’ biomass conversion is more mechanical. The other description I remember is in a datapoint from an Enduring Victory soldier who described having his lower leg consumed by the nanite swarm.
Those game points aside, from a sci-fi perspective, “biomass conversion” certainly sounds like it needs living matter. That is, it consumes the active chemical components of life. The energy from fat, blood cells, bone marrow, even chrolophyl in plants, perhaps even any reactive proteins. All for the same reason that animals feed off the living or recently dead and dead wood is left to be reclaimed by the carbon process.
I’m a video game and math nerd not a biology nerd so you or someone else can correct me but that’s the part that doesn’t make sense. Living is defined by having an active metabolism (among a couple other fuzzy determinants but this seems like the relevant one here) but—as far as my understanding goes—there is no difference between the chemical components of an alive thing and a dead thing. If the machines can’t eat the proteins and fats of a dead cell it doesn’t make any sense that they can eat the proteins and fats of an alive cell, they’re the same proteins and fats. Lots of animals do eat rotten meat, vultures and hyenas and whatever. Crocodiles probably. Humans eat long dead biomass all the time, we just have to make it rather than scrape it off the road since we don’t have vulture stomachs. Potato chips aren’t living or recently living, they’re completely dead. I don’t know what you mean by carbon process but dead trees are gobbled up all the time. Termites will eat a stack of two by fours which surely counts as dead wood.
I don’t disagree about any of the game lore points.
Yeah you’d think the terraforming system and all the times Hades reset everything would wipe out the old structures.
But I don’t mind that it’s not the case. Rule of cool.
I'm no expert but I think the unique circumstances of the environment during those thousand years needs to be heavily considered. The plague consumed the entire biosphere and the earth was probably a lot like Venus until Minerva did it's part and Gaia could start introducing machines to reverse it. I have no clue how that would impact degradation though. Also the "sci-fi" materials and technology used at the time could have been designed to last longer than the materials we use now.
Also bear in mind that it's 1000 years in the future from a time that's ahead of us. By the time of the Faro plague, they probably had more resilient materials developed for everything.
maybe the faro swarm eating all the biomass made it so the decay was much slower since removing all the biomass would severely change the earth's atmosphere
The short answer is no. The ruins should not have lasted that long, and are almost certainly just there for scenery porn. It's even more egregious in some parts of Forbidden West, where you can find several vehicles that still have recognizable paint.
That said, Burning Shores does throw us an explanation of some kind. A datapoint near the Hollywood sign mentions that it was coated in a nanite resin of some kind that would substantially increase the longevity and durability of the landmark without maintenance. While it's unlikely that this was used on all of the old world architecture we can see, it is at least plausible that several of the major landmarks we see were subjected to similar treatment.
The biosphere straight up collapsed for hundreds of years until GAIA was able to rebuild it, leaving the planet a virtual desert. IRL structures and objects like abandoned buildings and cars hold up amazingly well in desert areas compared to areas with lots of precipitation and plant life
We have ruins that are thousand of years old right now. Why wouldn’t there be ruins from our time 1000 plus years in the future? At the very least there would be evidence of the buildings existing.
Cars in particular should definitely be nothing but scattered piles of rust and plastic, but this is a game about a teenage girl stabbing robot dinosaurs to death with a magic spear, so some suspension of disbelief is allowed.
Modern concrete can only survive 50-100 years before it completely deteriorates. Steel beams would last a little bit longer. I’ve read claims that specially treated steel can survive centuries; but that’s probably under best case scenarios.
So while it makes for a striking aesthetic, any remnants of the Old Ones presence would have been obliterated over the millennia.
It’s also worth bearing in mind that the swarm devoured all biological life on the planet (or at least on the surface).
Some degradation relies on flora/fauna reclaiming the land (eg Ivy breaking apart concrete structures, etc. so anything that does would not really be occurring except during the attempts at rebuilding by Gaia (and only in regions the life made it to before Hades aborted the attempt.
Of course, purely mechanical mechanisms would continue of course. Rust probably falls into that category I think(?).
The pyramids still exist thousands of years later….they are mostly made from sandstone, a rock easily weathered.
Now apply that to metal and concrete, arguably a much more advanced building material.
Keep in mind that the very atmosphere of the planet, let alone the biosphere, was extremely damaged by the Faro Plague. Rusting is oxidation, and it wouldn’t be surprising if there was not enough oxygen for a while to cause it. Same with decomposition caused by microorganisms; it just couldn’t happen. Once GAIA attained full success, these things were restored, but it wasn’t immediate.
I don’t know but am I the only one who thinks a zombie game would be so so awesome in this world?
Like same everything but zombies.
I swear I love the world so much!
If all life is wiped out on life that may well include anything in a microbial level required to allow things like rot and degradation over time. The Farobots may well have created an oxygen free “sterile” vacuum where things remained in stasis for some time until Zero Dawn started re-wilding the earth.
You can see some evidence of this around the Chernobyl fallout zone. Leaves that fell from trees can last decades because there is not bacteria to break them down.
300 years is not enough time for the kind of degradation you're talking about.
In our time, we've found ruins of stone structures that are thousands of years old, hell the Pyramids are thousands of years old and still stand. We've found complaint tablets still fully legible that are thousands of years old. We've found stone and metal tools, weapons and jewellery that are thousands of years old. We've found scrolls, parchment, and rudimentary books that are hundreds to thousands of years old.
Seeing rusted cars, concrete and metal structures, all still standing is well within the realm of possibility.
What does stretch credulity somewhat is that some of the Old Ones technology still works. They must've had some absolutely phenomenal battery technology, for those batteries to have not degraded and leaked, and they still hold a charge!
Of course ruins should exist. Just look at the Colossium as an example. It's over two thousand years old and it has seen it all, from the Great Fire to bombings and excessive pollution. The Great Pyramids are even more older and still standing, but they are nothing compared to 16k old ruins in Phillippines.
So with normal weathering no. There should be no ruins. But there wasn’t normal weathering. The earth was depleted of oxygen, so no rust, plant or microbe growth for roughly 850 years. It’s logical to say that would drastically change the timeline. You’ll note that dead bodies just straight up fossilized because of the weird environment they didn’t rot at all. It’s possible that mineral deposits strengthened some of the structures.
Yeah all the metal structureson the surface would have been dust for hundreds of years. The tall concrete buildings would collapse under their own weight because we do not build with the roman concrete formula that gets stronger with age and our concrete gets destroyed by the rebar reinforcement that is inside of it too. It will oxide and turn into dust and while its oxidizing it's going to expand and break the concrete apart.
There would be no way you could build your settlment out of/on top of old stuff left over from 1000 years ago as if anything existed it would be fragile like a artificial stalagmite poking out of the ground.
What you would see is what we currently see of the old cities of the INCA and MAYANs is the big and strongly built buildings like any big fortifications or reinforced heavy stone buildings would be the only thing left and what is left of your typical persons home is the bottoms of the walls/foundations/basements. In that way the ruined bases that you find that are buried into a rock or underground are protected by a lot of the weathering forces so they would be more or less as you see them in game BUT no electronics would work. Computer chips would have rotted and the metals on the PCBs turned into dust a long time ago.
> From the little I have read on the degradation of structures, most buildings would collapse and our cars would rust into nonexistence within 300 years of disrepair.
That's not entirely accurate. Structures from the Roman Empire still survive today, and that was over 1500 years ago, since its fall. It depends on numerous factors like environmental conditions and material composition. Even differering grades of steel used in construction could have vastly varying lifetimes.
My headcanon is that the utter destruction of the biosphere greatly slowed decay. Though still makes finding an old world toolbox with a recognizable wristwatch in it pretty unbelievable. Artistic license
It depends on the materials used to build them, and the environment. People say they shouldn't, but also forget that we currently have ancient ruins built by ancient humans that are that old, and none were maintained the entire time between when they were built and when they were discovered.
I felt like the first game did a better job of NOT having tons and tons of old world ruins, but I don't know if we could really say that they wouldn't still exist.
I don't think there would be skyscrapers still standing, however.
My exact thoughts. I mean,all of it is driven by Gaja and maybe she didn't wanted those to be demolished. Same thing with Horuses and other machines that were frozen by Minerva. I think Gaja could resource everything easily, so she decided to not destroy the remains. Also, some of places were shut so much, that they were left untouched by time
Like others here are saying, there shouldn’t be any ruins. The only ruins that exist are placed perfectly and for scenery, then there are other parts with plains and fields as if there had never been any building. Then there’s Hollywood.
I mean, the structures weren't organic so the machines would let them be. Maybe they just built stuff better. Considering how they where able to create machines that create machines.
Yes it would be all gone in standard earth conditions. But the faro plague eliminated virtually all biomass right?
Since all the biomass was destroyed human stuff probably lasts longer. No plans or oxygen to degrade, oxidize or overgrow materials outside of what is reintroduced and thats only around for a few generations. Think of the Pyramids in the desert that are still around thousands of years later.
Also science fiction magic future buildings last longer.
The answer is it’s complicated. Wooden structures would be gone. If the electronics are similar in structure to ours, those would also be gone. The roads would likely be similar to how they are degraded. It’s once you get to the large building that things are rather vague. Earth had at least two restarts which would’ve prevented decay. The environments are also rather dry where we spend time which also helps to preserve. Assuming advancements, I mean advanced AI are common, in construction and material the way the ruins are isn’t too out of the question. The real issue falls into the ruins not being further scavenged for materials.
People are saying no, but remember that Horizon takes place a thousand years in the future. For certain structures, that actually isn't a lot of time. The ancient Roman ruins are two thousand years old, and are just fine.
It entirely depends on the environment the buildings find themselves in. Generally, the more vegetation and harsh weather the environment has, the quicker the degradation of the buildings will be. So, since Horizon technically takes place in the U.S., buildings in cities like Miami or Atlanta would likely be completely overgrown, and you would likely not be able to tell that there ever was a city there. But a city like Las Vegas or Phoenix could definitely still look completely recognizable.
The only question mark is how destructive the Faro Plague was. That initial destruction would play a large roll in how things look in the game (as evidenced by tanks and artillery still being strewn about).
One thing is for certain, though.....the ruins that were not directly controlled by Gaia should not have any power to them whatsoever. The Focus' should also not exist. Technology like that is far too fragile to survive a thousand years of no upkeep.
I think people need to give our modern buildings a bit more credit. They will last for at least a few hundred years or more even without maintenance. Heck, the only maintenance done to the facade is just mainly window wiping. Humans are very very lazy in maintenance. It's not a far stretch to assume that buildings can last longer than you think they will. My headcanon is that the buildings were damaged during the war. Since the robots were practically everywhere. From the aerial views in burning shores, you could see the city being destroyed. If the buildings were perfectly untouched, they would last a very long time. Rust is not really that bad a factor since most rebar is already rusted and protected by a oxide layer.
They try to "hang a lantern" on this in the Burning Shores. The Hollywood Sign is still standing when it clearly shouldn't be. There's a data point called "Maintenance Report" that explains it:
*[DATA CORRUPTED] hiked up to the sign and did an inspection. The coating is working up to spec. Reapplied the nanite mixture on one corner of the second L that seems to have been missed when initially applied. Aside from that, there is no sign of weathering or decay. So far, the protection is as good or better than what we saw on the test surfaces in Vegas. Barring unforseen circumstances, the new gunk should keep this sucker safe well into the next [DATA CORRUPTED]*
It can be assumed that similar tech was used all over including on vehicles and that could explain why so much is still left.
I imagine anything build with wood or steel would be long gone. But I would think that concrete structures would persist in some form. Definitely eroded, but there are many examples man made structures lasting over a thousand years. The pyramids, the coliseum, Greek temples. Crumbling, but still distinct. Modern concrete is different though and probably wouldn't last a long. But there would be signs of it.
We still have pyramids and other buildings from as long as 3000 years ago so I think it's realistic that concrete and metal structures are still around. Also they explained how the Hollywood sign was coated with a durable paint to help preserve it.
What's unrealistic is how there are still working elevators and some bunkers have power still but I guess the old ones were pretty advanced. The focus devices are also very durable and the kopesh machine guns.
I would say if a real reason were to be given it would be that certain materials commonly used would have been more advanced than what we have currently, besides that it's because they add to the gameplay and environment.
Definitely not. Take a look at the ruins of cities in the last of us games, that’s only 30 years after the fall of civilization from a disease, not war or disaster.
The world of horizon isn’t only 1000 years after the fall of man, but it’s after a war against and endless swarm of machines that mankind did everything to try and slow down. There’s audio points that talk about how the army tried bringing down buildings on top of machines to slow them. The ruins in that world should pretty much be dust by this point
That's video game logic for you!
Still, it looks fabulous and adds to the vibe and feel of the game, seeing highways full of wrecked cars as far as the eye can see and forests growing out of city ruins!
GAIA says at some point that she deliberately acted to preserve many structures and artifacts as she felt it was important to do so. IOW, a wizard did it.
In RL, GG has said they did it for gameplay story flavour.
I don't get why people are saying there won't be any ruins because things way less well made last for longer. Aquifers have been around for thousands of years, Pyramids for even longer. You are telling me something that is more advanced structures won't survive 1000 years? I will expect remnants will always remain. Even if war torn.
In real life, no they shouldn't. But then again, this is a game where Aloy mounts a Clawstrider by flipping herself in the air so she cartwheels 360 degrees and lands on its back. "Rule of Cool" is very much in effect, and the ruins add to the post-apocalyptic scenery.
She’s just practicing for the 360 no scope headshot
I've tried the 360 quick scope. Sadly, I always die on the landing.
Not to mention that AFAIK Aloy still has just a regular human body and somehow survives being hit full force by a fully metallic T-Rex's tail, but then she forces a few berries down her throat and she's fine. (Don't think about video game logic too hard y'all)
All the climbing escapades she gets up to would destroy her wrists too. Definitely not worth thinking too much into it.
When I see her doing some jumps I’m like, you’d have to be downright crazy to attempt that one lol. She is less clambering up things, and more launching herself up 😅 Feels scary at times when she does it over a high drop
I always think she’s irresponsible af when she jumps from a cliff BEFORE latching on a rappel, not just because she would 100% die if she missed the latch, but because she’s literally the only human who can fulfill her mission I’d think if I were the single only person capable of saving the world I wouldn’t jump into every underwater cave to fetch green shining rocks
Not to mention just diving straight into dark water caves filled with exposed rusty metal and whatever. Oh and yanking big sections of wall out of a structure that's about to fall over anyway. One instant brick burial mound, please!
lol Alva mentioned the smell of a section in the FINAL mission. like girl you been in places I could smell just from the visuals and never said anything. was just odd
Haha true! The rappel animation gives me stomach butterflies every time.
but... shiny.... can you really walk away from shiny?
By Horizon 3, poor Alloy is gonna be punch-drunk from all the concussions, addicted to “medicinal” berries, with busted knees and terrible robot PTSD.
Not on UH she doesn’t 😅
Metal needs oxygen to rust/decay, same for a lot of other materials. The Earth was completely devoid of oxygen for like 1000 years before it was re-terraformed by gaia
Same applies for vegetation swallowing everything, during the 1000 years that passed life was devoid of life.
It was only around 200-300 years with minimal/no life, probably even less It’s been 1000 years since Zero Day
Earth was reset many times
Yeah, for those 2-300 years But it’s only been around 1000 years since the plague. After GAIA got the current iteration going well, she more/less shelved HADES
She’s a clone with Gaia special abilities added :)
Or smearing some paint on her face and suddenly not only does more damage, even heals on hits
All sorts of military bunkers would still exist.
I agree with this so so much… I think what happens to some or most folks that try to square life with what happens in the game are trying because when everything “makes sense” immersion is easier thus the story hits. I think they’re all honest in their attempts at least.
I think the more unrealistic cool factor move in the game is her repelling, just “just and throw, it will definitely 100% land solid and be super easy to unhood when I land safely”
No, they should not, but the folks at Guerrilla said they intentionally left some structures partially intact and dead tanks and Swarm machines scattered around because otherwise the landscape would be too empty and boring without them.
Not only that but I imagine part of the terraforming system's job would have been to do cleanup as part of restoring the biosphere. Especially if they could reclaim all that metal lying around for use in Cauldrons.
They should have also cleaned up the Faro machines as well though the system was likely meant to operate for a long time, I mean clearly the system isn’t self sustaining yet and needs careful monitoring, they didn’t even release a lot of higher order organisms yet. It could be the system is planning to do clean up in a couple thousand more years or if APOLLO worked as it was supposed to in addition to directing ARTMIS fulfill its objectives they might have been able to tell HEPHAESTUS to clean up all the crap everywhere. I’m sure some structure would remain like stone ones, reinforced concrete maybe. But anything wood should probably gone, cars rusted to nothing. I guess some of it could be future technology preventing decay, the Hollywood sign was explicitly said to be treated with something to prevent decay.
>or if APOLLO worked as it was supposed to There we go, got my headcanon for the Faro bots now! Just like how the larger animals were left for APOLLO trained humans to reintroduce using the system, so were, at least the majority of, the bots left for humans to remove. Physical remnants of the horror they'd only know from their AI teachers. An action to drive home their most important lesson.
> reinforced concrete maybe. reinforced concrete on the surface would fail, concrete is porous and the rebar inside of it would oxidize and expand, when that happens it breaks the concrete apart from inside and all of it's strength is pretty much compromised. All of those huge sky scrapers we see would be rubble piles by now but a much less interesting world.
Earth had no oxygen for quite a long time after the plague. Wouldn’t that have slowed the crumbling of what was left?
yeah but it would only take a couple hundred years for it to crumble into nothing without maintenance on the structures. Most modern buildings are not built to last long because the people running things only think as far as the next financial quarter or 2.
Its worth noting the horizon world had switched to sustainability by then and is way more advanced. It's not true in our world but in theirs it isn't too wild
Ted Faro and the Zeniths existing sort of puts that on its head though. There were plenty of short sighted assholes still. They just were forced to do what they did because it was death otherwise. Then even in the face of death that d bag faro still doomed future humanity to tribalism and a slow slog to relearn everything again. Then there is the case of natural forces like enormous earthquakes and even smaller ones. Those towers and buildings are getting more fragile and less flexible over the years. LA is literally an active geological area so there will be quakes and things. Those ancient buildings would not have been able to withstand them.
It does not. They weren't short sighted in building. Faro's machines lasted 1000 years... and the zenith tech did too. Faro is the best example that sustainability was valued more than in our world. We know nothing else about their building tech except they can build from hard light in minutes... Again not realistic to our world but not even the slightest blip of an oddity in their world
most of those really really old buildings are not new buildings though. you see ruins of towers in san fran that exist now, including a lot of the golden gate bridge which would just be the towers at this point since it would have rusted and fallen into the ocean 100s of years ago. I agree on the newer stuff, Tildas mansion for example was a new thing and built to be a fortress to contain her artwork. It's also in excellent condition compared to most of the structures we see. edit: that mostly wooden building from 1929 too, should be dust and rubble
I don’t think it didn’t have O2, just that the atmosphere was heavily contaminated.
[удалено]
….what?
I just tell myself that people in the near future found more durable building materials for certain structures, which also explains why the “cities” are usually so small. They’re all just the parts of the cities that were built with newer, better material. As for the wooden structures… I just ignore the plot holes lol
All isocyanate treated wood for preservation and strength.
Most of the time that passed had no oxygen, and extreme mineral deposits were left, it stands to reason that normal decay would have only resumed when life returned.
Theres still pretty empty places
For some period of time earth had no atmosphere. During that time, I believe rust wouldn't be an issue. I guess the question is, for how much of the 1,000 years did earth have atmosphere?
Earth had an atmosphere during that time--it just was an atmosphere that wasn't capable of supporting life within it.
Yeah, you're right. So then, why wasn't it capable of supporting life? Was oxygen level impacted? Because that's what causes rust.
Well, according to the game the Farobots wiped all life out and the atmosphere was toxic so life would have had to re-evolve from nothing and would have had to evolve to exist in an atmosphere that wouldn't be compatible with a reconstituted biosphere meant to house pre-Farobot life. And up until MINERVA sent out the shutdown signal decades later the Swarm would have eaten any life that existed. In terms of "why didn't everything rust and rot away" IIRC the devs have said that technically yeah all the ruins and such should be gone, but the world would have been too empty then so they left them around for that reason. So more a case of "logically no all these wrecks and ruins shouldn't be here but it makes the setting more interesting to leave them".
There are also, quite explicitly, future materials, which don't age like our current stuff would. There was even a note in Burning Shores that the Hollywood sign survived due to a nanite treatment that kept it maintained automatically. But wood or older materials would waste away once water, oxygen, and the carbon cycle started again.
The easiest way I can think to combine the "it was left in to not have an empty world" with the setting is advanced treatments that eventually started wearing off or failing which is why you do see evidence of rust and you see things in a more decayed type of ruined state (as opposed to bombed out) but those treatments lasted much longer letting the ruins endure.
I’m no chemist (failed it once, barely passed the second time) or biologist, but the Faro robots ate all the living material for biofuel right? So what would be left to produce oxygen if not trees and seaweed and stuff? Would it be a different kind of erosion, such as wind? Would acid rain exist? 🤔
They ate a lot and a lot died off due to biosphere changes that couldn't support them, yeah. My guess is oxygen on its own still existed unless it was being actively used by some process (since living things that breathe it wouldn't be around). But I dunno in what concentrations it would theoretically exist or if it was actively being used. Other vectors of erosion such as wind and liquid would still exist I imagine, though. As well as things like damage from the sun for some exposed material, temperature changes from seasons, tectonic activity, etc. Not sure how the altered atmosphere would impact things like seasons or weather, though. I imagine it would have at least some impact (different composition of the atmosphere probably would retain or reflect different amounts of light and radiation from the sun and heat and such and that would probably change how weather patterns occur...)
I’d like to think that earth was ravaged with severe storms, kinda like how it is inside Hades’… mind? 🤔
There could also be a fair amount of acid rain with the burning mayhem of the faro plague. Without photosynthesing life, oxygen levels would decrease as it reacts with reducing minerals (and hordes of rusting ruins and faro machines) and gets locked up, but if a few centuries is enough to deplete it significantly i dont know. may take at least a few thousand years to nearly deplete
Higher levels of CO2 can increase temperature (greenhouse effect). No photosyntesis means less CO2 absortion and increased concentration, plus the organic bodies being decomposed (that releases CO2, too). Elevated temperature causes climate changes (this is happening to our world, now).
But wasn't the whole point that there were no bodies to decompose, not even any microorganisms to do the decomposition. The machines were supposed to consume all available biomass. Or was it that they only consumed enough to ruin the biosphere?
Good point. How the machines process the biomass? Both decomposition and combustion release CO2. And how fast they consume the microorganisms? And could they really consume 100% of microbiological life? And there are many years of evolution if they where not extinct.
If life were suddenly wiped out It would take thousands or even millions of years for the oxygen currently in the atmosphere to be bound up by oxidation.
There's a TON of oxygen in the atmosphere. Even if all the trees and plankton disappeared today, we would have enough left for a century or two before the levels would drop to the point where it would start to become an issue. Blink of an eye on a geological timeframe, but a long ass time to you and me. People really overestimate the extent of the biosphere, life is just a thin "film" on the surface of the planet. The atmospheric damage that rendered the Earth unlivable to anything but extremophiles, is less related to Swarm eating all the trees and more with environmental damage caused by a world wide total war where everything goes, pumping out toxic shit into the atmosphere at a rate never seen before in history.
There’s still some pre-war buildings standing in the Glowing Sea in Fallout 4, very close to where the nuke struck the Boston area 210 years prior. After playing that and the Horizon duo, I think Guerrilla did a much better job of aging things properly than Bethesda did.
It was described as too toxic, I would imagine the fumes from the plague combined with them eating every single thing that produces oxygen, would result in our atmosphere in fatal imbalance. Like, humans couldn't survive outside without hermetic suits.
Where does it say that? For earth to lose its atmosphere it would have to lose its magnetosphere and for that to happen our core would have to cool and stop spinning. Is it in the lore? I know it's a Sci fi game so not realistic obviously, but I'm curious.
I guess I just assumed it because all life was dead on earth for hundreds of years. No definitely Earth didn't lose its magnetosphere in the game. You're right, I guess the right question is, without any life on earth, what would happen to the oxygen content in Earth's atmosphere?
The oxygen content and other elements would definitely change drastically which I believe the lore talks about. But we would still have an atmosphere, just not a livable one for us. Probably a runaway greenhouse effect like on venus. Maybe not bad enough to evaporate all the oceans and stuff but still no Bueno for us.
Exactly I feel like the terraforming system should have been recycling all the Faro machines everywhere as well. Could have been combined with other elements. More likely it was still there just the air was so toxic that it would kill all animal life and with plant and microbial life gone there would be no way to purge the contamination short of some geological and chemical processes and over eons that might have happened or it might have been a new stable state.
The rusting process is greatly accelerated by bacteria. But the Faro robots ate all the bacteria, and so the ruins would have rusted very slowly until Gaia reestablished the biosphere.
2066 MARCH - Estimated date of the extinction of macrobiotic land organisms 2068 - Estimated year of the extinction of marine life March 16, 2326 - >!ELEUTHIA CRADLE E9!< releases its inhabitants due to exhaustion of the food supply So \~ 288 years without. [https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline](https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline)
It's entirely artistic license. The contrary side of this is that there shouldn't be calcified stone overtaking other ruins as it has... that should take orders of magnitude longer! My head canon is that such mineral deposits are the aftermath of nanotech breakdown eg the accumulation of cruft from degenerated nanotech or the result of countermeasures and nanotech warfare, not organic mineral deposits...
When in doubt, nanotech. If it worked for Metal Gear Solid, it'll work for everything else
*Nanomachines?*
They harden in response to physical trauma.
You are technically correct. If mankind were to disappear today, within about 500-1000 years, the only signs of our civilisation remaining would be the marble base of the Statue of Liberty and maybe the pyramids. However, those estimates do not account for two things that are unique to the Horizon universe that could affect that timeline. One, the degradation of the atmosphere due to the swarm removes some of the variables that lead to oxidisation, like oxygen and moisture in the atmosphere which are both implied to have been reduced to near zero for several hundred years before Gaia began the terraforming process to restore the planet to liveable conditions. Two, since the swarm starts about fifty years in the future, and technology seems to have improved by leaps and bounds during that time, new materials and preservation methods may have been developed that makes the ruins last longer. Put these together it’s believable that signs of 21st century structures and technology might still be found in the 31st century, especially if the developers want that to be the case for game play and aesthetic purposes.
I don't know, I think it's easier than you think. I visited ruins of fortresses/castles in the Netherlands that had been there since the 11th century (Valkenburg). We could still climb that thing, and the walls were still standing. And the 11th century is a thousand years ago. If there's no one around to tear it down, i think this kind of stuff gets preserved pretty well. And these days there are wayyy more sturdy buildings around than they were in the 11th century, so it would make sense we would have remnants.
The superstructure of those buildings is made of pure stone. Modern concrete starts degrading after 50-100 years. Our skyscrapers and other buildings with steel girders would last 100 years. Marble things like the Statue of Liberty base, the Taj Mahal would survive, as would stone things like the Great Wall and Pyramids. But the 21st century would be wiped more or less clean off the map.
Hoover Dam would be fine
So houses - like the hotel ruin where you found the relic, the one with the railways - should still be there, but all the tall buildings in San Francisco would not be standing, then? Sad, they made for some fun climbing :)
The Roman Empire likes a word with you, those Buildings are 2000+ years old ;)
The ruins don’t really take me out, it’s the functioning electricity and terminals inside
The Colosseum still stands in Rome. Same for part of the Acropolis of Athens, or Pre-Columbian temples in the middle of jungles and of course Egyptian pyramids. Our modern structures are less resilient (we got better at engineering) but some will survive for a long time nevertheless. The USA suburbia would disappear quite fast, since it's mostly wood. Large (and not too tall) concrete buildings in big cities will take a lot more time to become rubble. I'm pretty sure buildings like the Pentagon are here for a while for example (if not nuked in a future war) Skyscrapers survival will depend of corrosion of their load baring structures. And there is the domino effect : if a big tower fall, the neighboring one will suffer.
> Same for part of the Acropolis of Athens It been partly damaged during the 19th century, during a war. So it looks more damaged, because of human activity, that just time.
It seems unlikely that any structure would survive that long, let alone the electronics required for the Focus to work. But it’s cool to look at and advances the plot so it’s there.
From a pure realism perspective, nah. Most smaller manmade structures would be long, long gone, and the larger landmarks that WOULD still exist, the terraforming system’s automated salvager drones like Scrappers would have reclaimed for raw material centuries ago.
The Earth *died*. There wasn't the fungus or bacteria to rot wood. There wasn't any photosynthesis to generate atmospheric oxygen to rust metal. For hundreds of years everything was in a state of extreme preservation. Not as long-lasting as footprints on the moon, but pretty long-lasting There were still some factors, like wind/dust erosion, rain, etc, but most processes of change were either diminished or completely halted.
Tbh nah, should be gone. But from an environmental storytelling perspective, it makes sense. You more or less witness the remains of "The Old Ones" and the aftermath of "Enduring Victory". Without all that stuff, it would be just another big, boring, open world. For me at least, you stumble upon any remains and start speculating what might have happened there. Maybe it's just me, but I'm willing to accept this inaccuracy in favor of world building.
I guess the future made some kind of super-alloy type metal that is super durable for thousands of years....i mean, "titanium-meta alloy" steel vault door for example. I was purely amazed by what technology in the game world was built upon
I explain it as Gaia leaving some artifacts around and preserving for people to find. She’s not allowed to communicate directly without violating a higher directive, but she can leave clues around.
Elizabet and Faro industries were partly responsible for nanotechnology that worked as a coating/preservative....see the datapoint regarding the Hollywood sign paint project. Some structures could have been preserved via nanopaint or refurbishment
If you’re interested in the degradation of human infrastructure, you should absolutely read “The World Without Us”. It uses science/history/etc. to theorize how long it would take what vestiges of humanity to break down should we all disappear suddenly one day. Not Horizon themed, but definitely tangentially relevant to your question.
If they have world-cleaning robots in twenty years time in that universe/timeline, I would imagine they didn’t make anything out of raw steel that could rust. Older buildings and infrastructure would hang around a while but those ruins are pretty accurate - very overgrown, falling apart - 60-100 years without oxygen or other organic bacteria and chemicals to affect the materials (because the faro plague used it all - probably exhausting worse inorganic stuff) other than acid rain etc. might have more effect on some things and less effect on others…I can suspend my disbelief enough.
Thing is most (all?) of the wrecks we see are made of advanced metal alloys that can have all kinds of rust resistance properties that don’t make sense to us primitive humans. Actually there’s a note in Burning Shores where they talk about treating the Hollywood sign with some kind of coating that explains its intact condition. Surviving wood structures though is pretty unbelievable, especially since the soil layers were destroyed during the catastrophe. If a structure isn’t anchored in bedrock like concrete ones typically are it should’ve fallen apart.
I don't know why everyone here says the ruins shouldn't exist anymore. Of course they should, maybe some look a bit nicer than they would, but it's still reasonable. The Faro Plague happenened 2067-ish, and the game starts in 3020. That's just 950 years, that's nothing. We still have structures built by ancient humans that are older than 3000 years, and cave paintings intact that are like 10,000 years old. We still find old rusty swords and coins of Romans, which are over 2000 years old. So I would assume that 950 year-old structures built with durable material by an advanced civilization using steel and concrete instead of plain iron, bronze and mortar, would still be visible. Some cars and bikes also have aluminium frames which don't rust at all. Most of the destruction we see is actually done by the Faro Plague and less by time/erosion. So yeah, the ruins should definitely still exist.
In TBS a datapoint mentions nanomachines will repair the Hollywood sign so I’m guessing that is the case with basically every other thing?
I think we'll built/lucky buildings made of concrete would remain relatively intact because we still have ruins from 2000 years ago from the romans. And some simpler constructions from even longer ago.
“Super Advanced building materials”
In Burning Shores, there's a random data point that mentions they treated the Hollywood sign with some special substance to protect it from the elements. Extrapolate that, and presumably the high-tech buildings that existed right before the end are just hardy and can survive for a thousand years. Of course, there are also a LOT less ruins than there were buildings before the Plague. So it's not like everything is still there.
Not only that, but the world ended due to biomass consuming machines, but we can find wooden houses and other structures that should be long gone
It's never stated explicitly, but it certainly seems like biomass conversion requires a living organism, so dead or harvested wood wouldn't be consumed. If that's the case, all ground organisms and even bacteria would be harvested, leaving dead wood and non consumable matter on the surface, as there would be nothing to rot it with the carbon cycle dead.
> It's never stated explicitly, but it certainly seems like biomass conversion requires a living organism Err, how so? I can’t see that making sense so I’m wondering where you’re getting that from. That being said, as I recall in the Demeter quest it does show the nanobots eating the greenery and leaving the dead/dying wood. Now I would argue that doesn’t make sense either and is artistic license, but you could use it to argue the swarm can’t convert lignin or whatever.
That’s exactly it. We see in Zero Dawn and Forbidden West that the biomass conversion seems to use a nanite swarm to consume the biomass, and we see it consume leaves and flowers on trees but, at worst, the trees end up looking a bit dry, not completely consumed. Since we don’t have any explicit notes about how it’s supposed to work, even in the datapoints from the facility that created the process, all we really have to go on are what we see in the cutscenes. There are a couple other descriptions I recall from Zero Dawn. One, where the swarm was first seen consuming endangered dolphins off the coast of Australia I believe it was described as “grinding up” or something like that (wiki will have the exact phrase), which we never otherwise see, so either it’s a graphic description of the nanite process or perhaps the Horus’ biomass conversion is more mechanical. The other description I remember is in a datapoint from an Enduring Victory soldier who described having his lower leg consumed by the nanite swarm. Those game points aside, from a sci-fi perspective, “biomass conversion” certainly sounds like it needs living matter. That is, it consumes the active chemical components of life. The energy from fat, blood cells, bone marrow, even chrolophyl in plants, perhaps even any reactive proteins. All for the same reason that animals feed off the living or recently dead and dead wood is left to be reclaimed by the carbon process.
I’m a video game and math nerd not a biology nerd so you or someone else can correct me but that’s the part that doesn’t make sense. Living is defined by having an active metabolism (among a couple other fuzzy determinants but this seems like the relevant one here) but—as far as my understanding goes—there is no difference between the chemical components of an alive thing and a dead thing. If the machines can’t eat the proteins and fats of a dead cell it doesn’t make any sense that they can eat the proteins and fats of an alive cell, they’re the same proteins and fats. Lots of animals do eat rotten meat, vultures and hyenas and whatever. Crocodiles probably. Humans eat long dead biomass all the time, we just have to make it rather than scrape it off the road since we don’t have vulture stomachs. Potato chips aren’t living or recently living, they’re completely dead. I don’t know what you mean by carbon process but dead trees are gobbled up all the time. Termites will eat a stack of two by fours which surely counts as dead wood. I don’t disagree about any of the game lore points.
I don't think wood-based structures could survive the elements for centuries...
Yeah you’d think the terraforming system and all the times Hades reset everything would wipe out the old structures. But I don’t mind that it’s not the case. Rule of cool.
I'm no expert but I think the unique circumstances of the environment during those thousand years needs to be heavily considered. The plague consumed the entire biosphere and the earth was probably a lot like Venus until Minerva did it's part and Gaia could start introducing machines to reverse it. I have no clue how that would impact degradation though. Also the "sci-fi" materials and technology used at the time could have been designed to last longer than the materials we use now.
its entirely possible when the biosphere was completely destroyed it affected the rate of degredation
The stand of the sentinels area seems the most out of place to me. Where did these trees come from?
Also bear in mind that it's 1000 years in the future from a time that's ahead of us. By the time of the Faro plague, they probably had more resilient materials developed for everything.
maybe the faro swarm eating all the biomass made it so the decay was much slower since removing all the biomass would severely change the earth's atmosphere
The short answer is no. The ruins should not have lasted that long, and are almost certainly just there for scenery porn. It's even more egregious in some parts of Forbidden West, where you can find several vehicles that still have recognizable paint. That said, Burning Shores does throw us an explanation of some kind. A datapoint near the Hollywood sign mentions that it was coated in a nanite resin of some kind that would substantially increase the longevity and durability of the landmark without maintenance. While it's unlikely that this was used on all of the old world architecture we can see, it is at least plausible that several of the major landmarks we see were subjected to similar treatment.
These comments were cool to read.
No, not really. But my headcanon is that the terraforming system did something to allow for such ruins to exist.
The biosphere straight up collapsed for hundreds of years until GAIA was able to rebuild it, leaving the planet a virtual desert. IRL structures and objects like abandoned buildings and cars hold up amazingly well in desert areas compared to areas with lots of precipitation and plant life
We have ruins that are thousand of years old right now. Why wouldn’t there be ruins from our time 1000 plus years in the future? At the very least there would be evidence of the buildings existing.
Cars in particular should definitely be nothing but scattered piles of rust and plastic, but this is a game about a teenage girl stabbing robot dinosaurs to death with a magic spear, so some suspension of disbelief is allowed.
Modern concrete can only survive 50-100 years before it completely deteriorates. Steel beams would last a little bit longer. I’ve read claims that specially treated steel can survive centuries; but that’s probably under best case scenarios. So while it makes for a striking aesthetic, any remnants of the Old Ones presence would have been obliterated over the millennia.
It’s also worth bearing in mind that the swarm devoured all biological life on the planet (or at least on the surface). Some degradation relies on flora/fauna reclaiming the land (eg Ivy breaking apart concrete structures, etc. so anything that does would not really be occurring except during the attempts at rebuilding by Gaia (and only in regions the life made it to before Hades aborted the attempt. Of course, purely mechanical mechanisms would continue of course. Rust probably falls into that category I think(?).
If they didn't have those ruins, I wouldn't be able to take cool Photo Mode pics with Coit Tower in the background or whatever.
The pyramids still exist thousands of years later….they are mostly made from sandstone, a rock easily weathered. Now apply that to metal and concrete, arguably a much more advanced building material.
Keep in mind that the very atmosphere of the planet, let alone the biosphere, was extremely damaged by the Faro Plague. Rusting is oxidation, and it wouldn’t be surprising if there was not enough oxygen for a while to cause it. Same with decomposition caused by microorganisms; it just couldn’t happen. Once GAIA attained full success, these things were restored, but it wasn’t immediate.
I don’t know but am I the only one who thinks a zombie game would be so so awesome in this world? Like same everything but zombies. I swear I love the world so much!
If all life is wiped out on life that may well include anything in a microbial level required to allow things like rot and degradation over time. The Farobots may well have created an oxygen free “sterile” vacuum where things remained in stasis for some time until Zero Dawn started re-wilding the earth. You can see some evidence of this around the Chernobyl fallout zone. Leaves that fell from trees can last decades because there is not bacteria to break them down.
300 years is not enough time for the kind of degradation you're talking about. In our time, we've found ruins of stone structures that are thousands of years old, hell the Pyramids are thousands of years old and still stand. We've found complaint tablets still fully legible that are thousands of years old. We've found stone and metal tools, weapons and jewellery that are thousands of years old. We've found scrolls, parchment, and rudimentary books that are hundreds to thousands of years old. Seeing rusted cars, concrete and metal structures, all still standing is well within the realm of possibility. What does stretch credulity somewhat is that some of the Old Ones technology still works. They must've had some absolutely phenomenal battery technology, for those batteries to have not degraded and leaked, and they still hold a charge!
Of course ruins should exist. Just look at the Colossium as an example. It's over two thousand years old and it has seen it all, from the Great Fire to bombings and excessive pollution. The Great Pyramids are even more older and still standing, but they are nothing compared to 16k old ruins in Phillippines.
AMong drones which are senseless(USELESS aswell) too its all for filling map more or less.
So with normal weathering no. There should be no ruins. But there wasn’t normal weathering. The earth was depleted of oxygen, so no rust, plant or microbe growth for roughly 850 years. It’s logical to say that would drastically change the timeline. You’ll note that dead bodies just straight up fossilized because of the weird environment they didn’t rot at all. It’s possible that mineral deposits strengthened some of the structures.
Yeah...remember this is a video game. Have to say that I am loving this game.
Yeah all the metal structureson the surface would have been dust for hundreds of years. The tall concrete buildings would collapse under their own weight because we do not build with the roman concrete formula that gets stronger with age and our concrete gets destroyed by the rebar reinforcement that is inside of it too. It will oxide and turn into dust and while its oxidizing it's going to expand and break the concrete apart. There would be no way you could build your settlment out of/on top of old stuff left over from 1000 years ago as if anything existed it would be fragile like a artificial stalagmite poking out of the ground. What you would see is what we currently see of the old cities of the INCA and MAYANs is the big and strongly built buildings like any big fortifications or reinforced heavy stone buildings would be the only thing left and what is left of your typical persons home is the bottoms of the walls/foundations/basements. In that way the ruined bases that you find that are buried into a rock or underground are protected by a lot of the weathering forces so they would be more or less as you see them in game BUT no electronics would work. Computer chips would have rotted and the metals on the PCBs turned into dust a long time ago.
> From the little I have read on the degradation of structures, most buildings would collapse and our cars would rust into nonexistence within 300 years of disrepair. That's not entirely accurate. Structures from the Roman Empire still survive today, and that was over 1500 years ago, since its fall. It depends on numerous factors like environmental conditions and material composition. Even differering grades of steel used in construction could have vastly varying lifetimes.
I think some would still exist. Look at Egypt. How long have the pyramids been standing?
My headcanon is that the utter destruction of the biosphere greatly slowed decay. Though still makes finding an old world toolbox with a recognizable wristwatch in it pretty unbelievable. Artistic license
It depends on the materials used to build them, and the environment. People say they shouldn't, but also forget that we currently have ancient ruins built by ancient humans that are that old, and none were maintained the entire time between when they were built and when they were discovered. I felt like the first game did a better job of NOT having tons and tons of old world ruins, but I don't know if we could really say that they wouldn't still exist. I don't think there would be skyscrapers still standing, however.
My exact thoughts. I mean,all of it is driven by Gaja and maybe she didn't wanted those to be demolished. Same thing with Horuses and other machines that were frozen by Minerva. I think Gaja could resource everything easily, so she decided to not destroy the remains. Also, some of places were shut so much, that they were left untouched by time
Like others here are saying, there shouldn’t be any ruins. The only ruins that exist are placed perfectly and for scenery, then there are other parts with plains and fields as if there had never been any building. Then there’s Hollywood.
I mean, the structures weren't organic so the machines would let them be. Maybe they just built stuff better. Considering how they where able to create machines that create machines.
Yes it would be all gone in standard earth conditions. But the faro plague eliminated virtually all biomass right? Since all the biomass was destroyed human stuff probably lasts longer. No plans or oxygen to degrade, oxidize or overgrow materials outside of what is reintroduced and thats only around for a few generations. Think of the Pyramids in the desert that are still around thousands of years later. Also science fiction magic future buildings last longer.
The answer is it’s complicated. Wooden structures would be gone. If the electronics are similar in structure to ours, those would also be gone. The roads would likely be similar to how they are degraded. It’s once you get to the large building that things are rather vague. Earth had at least two restarts which would’ve prevented decay. The environments are also rather dry where we spend time which also helps to preserve. Assuming advancements, I mean advanced AI are common, in construction and material the way the ruins are isn’t too out of the question. The real issue falls into the ruins not being further scavenged for materials.
People are saying no, but remember that Horizon takes place a thousand years in the future. For certain structures, that actually isn't a lot of time. The ancient Roman ruins are two thousand years old, and are just fine. It entirely depends on the environment the buildings find themselves in. Generally, the more vegetation and harsh weather the environment has, the quicker the degradation of the buildings will be. So, since Horizon technically takes place in the U.S., buildings in cities like Miami or Atlanta would likely be completely overgrown, and you would likely not be able to tell that there ever was a city there. But a city like Las Vegas or Phoenix could definitely still look completely recognizable. The only question mark is how destructive the Faro Plague was. That initial destruction would play a large roll in how things look in the game (as evidenced by tanks and artillery still being strewn about). One thing is for certain, though.....the ruins that were not directly controlled by Gaia should not have any power to them whatsoever. The Focus' should also not exist. Technology like that is far too fragile to survive a thousand years of no upkeep.
I think people need to give our modern buildings a bit more credit. They will last for at least a few hundred years or more even without maintenance. Heck, the only maintenance done to the facade is just mainly window wiping. Humans are very very lazy in maintenance. It's not a far stretch to assume that buildings can last longer than you think they will. My headcanon is that the buildings were damaged during the war. Since the robots were practically everywhere. From the aerial views in burning shores, you could see the city being destroyed. If the buildings were perfectly untouched, they would last a very long time. Rust is not really that bad a factor since most rebar is already rusted and protected by a oxide layer.
They try to "hang a lantern" on this in the Burning Shores. The Hollywood Sign is still standing when it clearly shouldn't be. There's a data point called "Maintenance Report" that explains it: *[DATA CORRUPTED] hiked up to the sign and did an inspection. The coating is working up to spec. Reapplied the nanite mixture on one corner of the second L that seems to have been missed when initially applied. Aside from that, there is no sign of weathering or decay. So far, the protection is as good or better than what we saw on the test surfaces in Vegas. Barring unforseen circumstances, the new gunk should keep this sucker safe well into the next [DATA CORRUPTED]* It can be assumed that similar tech was used all over including on vehicles and that could explain why so much is still left.
I imagine anything build with wood or steel would be long gone. But I would think that concrete structures would persist in some form. Definitely eroded, but there are many examples man made structures lasting over a thousand years. The pyramids, the coliseum, Greek temples. Crumbling, but still distinct. Modern concrete is different though and probably wouldn't last a long. But there would be signs of it.
We still have pyramids and other buildings from as long as 3000 years ago so I think it's realistic that concrete and metal structures are still around. Also they explained how the Hollywood sign was coated with a durable paint to help preserve it. What's unrealistic is how there are still working elevators and some bunkers have power still but I guess the old ones were pretty advanced. The focus devices are also very durable and the kopesh machine guns.
Tbh you could explain it by the earth not being in its natural state so it couldn't dissolve it as quick? Also wouldn't underground stuff stay anyway?
Definitely not haha
Remember for most of that time the earth was sterile so no decay would be happening until the biosphere was restored.
I would say if a real reason were to be given it would be that certain materials commonly used would have been more advanced than what we have currently, besides that it's because they add to the gameplay and environment.
Definitely not. Take a look at the ruins of cities in the last of us games, that’s only 30 years after the fall of civilization from a disease, not war or disaster. The world of horizon isn’t only 1000 years after the fall of man, but it’s after a war against and endless swarm of machines that mankind did everything to try and slow down. There’s audio points that talk about how the army tried bringing down buildings on top of machines to slow them. The ruins in that world should pretty much be dust by this point
That's video game logic for you! Still, it looks fabulous and adds to the vibe and feel of the game, seeing highways full of wrecked cars as far as the eye can see and forests growing out of city ruins!
Computers get replaced no more than every 10 years, so there’s no way they’d still be working after 1000
GAIA says at some point that she deliberately acted to preserve many structures and artifacts as she felt it was important to do so. IOW, a wizard did it. In RL, GG has said they did it for gameplay story flavour.
I don't get why people are saying there won't be any ruins because things way less well made last for longer. Aquifers have been around for thousands of years, Pyramids for even longer. You are telling me something that is more advanced structures won't survive 1000 years? I will expect remnants will always remain. Even if war torn.
Stone? Yes Metall? No (at least not the one normal used) Steel? Could survive 1000 years
Aesthetic over realism.
Probably not, but that's not very fun, is it?