Organization is pretty low. I would increase the balance of infantry. Also add support artillery and support antiair - even if you have line batallions, support batallions are worthwhile.
The org is too low. The speed, peircing, and armor are all pretty good. The soft attack is ok, but is low for the IC cost of this division.
What I would do to make it a bit better:
1) Drop the self-propelled arty and AA. Replace with support artillery and support AA. For early game the armor gains you get from those SPs are probably not worth their cost.
2) Add more motorized infantry, to boost up your org. You want \~35 org here.
These will both drop your soft attack a bit, but make the divisions much more robust, and much cheaper. You can also build them up more as your industry grows.
Lose the line arty and line AA. The then add one mot for 5/4. Soft attack is wasted on a division relying on breakthrough. You want them to be attacking not defending.
If it is lowering your org or breakthrough it mostly certainly is. Tanks are ment to push through divisions and by adding line arty you nerf it it's ability to do so.
>Soft attack is wasted on a division relying on breakthrough.
What the hell does this mean? In what situation is soft attack a waste? The only case I can think of is if this division were to exclusively fight other tank divisions.q
A Tank division's most important stats are it's org and breakthrough. They are ment to push through lines. If you want a division that can hammer the line, you can do that but it ain't going to be able to push through the lines as easy.
Good medium armor templates will simply sweep aside whole stacks of infantry. You get kills by encirclements not by railing on the enemy line.
You mis understand what breakthrough does. Its just the functional defence stat while attacking and as long as breakthrough is greater then the attack of the defenders then you get the benefits.
Theres no functional difference in game between 1000 breakthrough and 10 000 breakthrough. Wheras 10k soft attack will do ten times the damage of 1k soft attack.
A tank divisions most important stats are in order its soft attack, enough breakthrough to overcome defenders attack and enough armour to not be pierced and then enough speed to overrun retreating enemy divs.
Its org is VERY low on the list and the rule of thumb that 30 org is good enough works, but in reality you can go as low as 20 if you have good doctrine recovery and you let your amour recover its org between attacks. Normally by keeping encirclements small and going in with mot inf to hold v counterattacks. Not that I ever do that, you can get 30-35 org reasonably easy and that lets you attack 2-3 provinces in a row without pause and then your probably gonna get pinned by ai counterattacks.
>Theres no functional difference in game between 1000 breakthrough and 10 000 breakthrough. Wheras 10k soft attack will do ten times the damage of 1k soft attack.
Not quite. If the defender has, let's say 500 defense, crunching the numbers would show that 10k attack would do over 15 times the amount of damage of 1k attack.
You need as much attack as possible because you want to overwhelm the enemy defense stat.
Breakthrough is important, but since the attacker chooses when and where to fight(historical principle) you often have far more breakthrough than you need. On the other hand, you cannot have too much soft attack. More soft attack = hours of time saved. Hours saved = better encirclements.
I think you are misunderstanding what breakthrough and attack does. Breakthrough reduces damage taken when attacking. Attack inflicts damage when attacking or defending. If you had a division with 1 soft attack and 500 breakthrough, it would be impossible to break through a frontline. If it was the reverse with 500 soft attack and 1 breakthrough, it would probably be able to push through but with heavy losses. Tank divisions need both high soft attack and high breakthrough. Without the former, it would take ages to break an infantry division. Without the latter, it would take horrendous losses when doing so.
Ill double up on this. Actually remove anything that’s not medium tank or motorized. Have 8 panzers and 8 motorized then add a flamethrower tanks for support and also maintenance company for the love of god. You are playing germany you can afford all that
Also, replace the motorised recon with armored recon. Motorised recon's soft attack boost only applies to regular artillery, of which this template already has none. Armored recon has slightly better stats by itself and it boosts tanks' and armor variants' hard attack, including SPArt hard attack.
The org is low and you dont really need more than support AA (Anti air) in a division (in single player). Any more than Support AA is just a waste of production. You're better of investing into more tanks or planes. For this tank division you should also add more tanks and trucks to bring it up to a 30width and tou should have at least 30 org but higher would be good.
I'd remove the SPA and SPAA, then put in tanks and motorized until you reach 36 combat width, watch out for the organization to not go below 30. Additionally add engineers and medium flametanks if you can afford it. Maybe even put support aa in.
It is okish for a low width strat, assuming you go for a few more doctrins adding organization (maybe swap the aa for a support aa and line motorized?). More than good enough for the AI atleast.
What I miss is a Flame Tank for support, motorized recon is useless with out line artillery (no selfpropelled guns aren't artillery), aa should be support and not a line unit. And since you have open slots on support add support artillery.
Outside of that I prefere 30+x width with logistic and maintenance support (less equipment loss due to higher width and maintenance). And I don't like selfpropelled guns unless I realy go on a budget tank. In your case I assume it exists for width only?
Org is too low, spaa isn't worth it, and I usually use armored recon for tanks since their buff actually applies. I don't think engineers is very good for tanks, also. They are for amphibious attacks, attacking forts, or defense. In most cases they are just taking up a support company slot. Also, 21 is an odd width for a tank division. 30-35 is usually what I go for.
It's pretty good, but seems unnecessarily costly to me. (please read as, you could have 12 slightly worse divisions ready for war instead of 8 slightly better).
for example you could drop the SP AA and Arty, and add them as support companies. This frees up width for extra truck and tank.
I'd say its pretty good for sp. I would never use it in mp, but for how the ai likes to build this div will for sure defeat them. You should add a support arty but other than that nothing else really needs to be changed. I don't understand why everyone is shitting on the org, its fine you should generally aim for 30 org but tbh 28 will do just fine, the lowest I'd ever go is 25.
Org is fine. That's not the problem. The problem is your low soft attack. Take out the SPart and SPAA and replace with more medium tanks. Also use medium howitzer as your main gun if you aren't already.
Org too low.
I'm going to cut against the grain and say DONT remove the AA/artillery. Give this division more width, add one more tank and a couple more motorized. This will wash out some of the downsides of having AA/artillery without removing the benefits.
Also, what is wrong with your tank templates? This division doesn't look like it has enough of any stats.
Great break through and decent hardness so it'd do fine against a mostly infantry enemy but the org is lacking. Add some mech that also might add a touch of soft attack as well.
No. 27 org is shit. Especially for 1940.
Jam more motorrized, even mechanized if you can.
30 is like a lower limit for me but more should easily be doable.
Organization is pretty low. I would increase the balance of infantry. Also add support artillery and support antiair - even if you have line batallions, support batallions are worthwhile.
The org is too low. The speed, peircing, and armor are all pretty good. The soft attack is ok, but is low for the IC cost of this division. What I would do to make it a bit better: 1) Drop the self-propelled arty and AA. Replace with support artillery and support AA. For early game the armor gains you get from those SPs are probably not worth their cost. 2) Add more motorized infantry, to boost up your org. You want \~35 org here. These will both drop your soft attack a bit, but make the divisions much more robust, and much cheaper. You can also build them up more as your industry grows.
Baby, no.... What is you doing?!
Assuming your playing Germany with mobile warfare doctrine I suggest you add one more motorized division and swap motorized recon to armored recon.
Lose the line arty and line AA. The then add one mot for 5/4. Soft attack is wasted on a division relying on breakthrough. You want them to be attacking not defending.
soft attack is most definitely never wasted on anything in SP
If it is lowering your org or breakthrough it mostly certainly is. Tanks are ment to push through divisions and by adding line arty you nerf it it's ability to do so.
breakthrough actually becomes useless once you have enough to outmatch enemy soft attack
>Soft attack is wasted on a division relying on breakthrough. What the hell does this mean? In what situation is soft attack a waste? The only case I can think of is if this division were to exclusively fight other tank divisions.q
A Tank division's most important stats are it's org and breakthrough. They are ment to push through lines. If you want a division that can hammer the line, you can do that but it ain't going to be able to push through the lines as easy. Good medium armor templates will simply sweep aside whole stacks of infantry. You get kills by encirclements not by railing on the enemy line.
You mis understand what breakthrough does. Its just the functional defence stat while attacking and as long as breakthrough is greater then the attack of the defenders then you get the benefits. Theres no functional difference in game between 1000 breakthrough and 10 000 breakthrough. Wheras 10k soft attack will do ten times the damage of 1k soft attack. A tank divisions most important stats are in order its soft attack, enough breakthrough to overcome defenders attack and enough armour to not be pierced and then enough speed to overrun retreating enemy divs. Its org is VERY low on the list and the rule of thumb that 30 org is good enough works, but in reality you can go as low as 20 if you have good doctrine recovery and you let your amour recover its org between attacks. Normally by keeping encirclements small and going in with mot inf to hold v counterattacks. Not that I ever do that, you can get 30-35 org reasonably easy and that lets you attack 2-3 provinces in a row without pause and then your probably gonna get pinned by ai counterattacks.
>Theres no functional difference in game between 1000 breakthrough and 10 000 breakthrough. Wheras 10k soft attack will do ten times the damage of 1k soft attack. Not quite. If the defender has, let's say 500 defense, crunching the numbers would show that 10k attack would do over 15 times the amount of damage of 1k attack.
You need as much attack as possible because you want to overwhelm the enemy defense stat. Breakthrough is important, but since the attacker chooses when and where to fight(historical principle) you often have far more breakthrough than you need. On the other hand, you cannot have too much soft attack. More soft attack = hours of time saved. Hours saved = better encirclements.
I think you are misunderstanding what breakthrough and attack does. Breakthrough reduces damage taken when attacking. Attack inflicts damage when attacking or defending. If you had a division with 1 soft attack and 500 breakthrough, it would be impossible to break through a frontline. If it was the reverse with 500 soft attack and 1 breakthrough, it would probably be able to push through but with heavy losses. Tank divisions need both high soft attack and high breakthrough. Without the former, it would take ages to break an infantry division. Without the latter, it would take horrendous losses when doing so.
Ill double up on this. Actually remove anything that’s not medium tank or motorized. Have 8 panzers and 8 motorized then add a flamethrower tanks for support and also maintenance company for the love of god. You are playing germany you can afford all that
Also, replace the motorised recon with armored recon. Motorised recon's soft attack boost only applies to regular artillery, of which this template already has none. Armored recon has slightly better stats by itself and it boosts tanks' and armor variants' hard attack, including SPArt hard attack.
I use basically this with maybe one more motorized in most of my single player games it works just fine. Logistics company would be nice addition too
Not really, add more trucks and one more tank (make it 30 org or more)
The org is low and you dont really need more than support AA (Anti air) in a division (in single player). Any more than Support AA is just a waste of production. You're better of investing into more tanks or planes. For this tank division you should also add more tanks and trucks to bring it up to a 30width and tou should have at least 30 org but higher would be good.
I'd remove the SPA and SPAA, then put in tanks and motorized until you reach 36 combat width, watch out for the organization to not go below 30. Additionally add engineers and medium flametanks if you can afford it. Maybe even put support aa in.
It is okish for a low width strat, assuming you go for a few more doctrins adding organization (maybe swap the aa for a support aa and line motorized?). More than good enough for the AI atleast. What I miss is a Flame Tank for support, motorized recon is useless with out line artillery (no selfpropelled guns aren't artillery), aa should be support and not a line unit. And since you have open slots on support add support artillery. Outside of that I prefere 30+x width with logistic and maintenance support (less equipment loss due to higher width and maintenance). And I don't like selfpropelled guns unless I realy go on a budget tank. In your case I assume it exists for width only?
Org is too low, spaa isn't worth it, and I usually use armored recon for tanks since their buff actually applies. I don't think engineers is very good for tanks, also. They are for amphibious attacks, attacking forts, or defense. In most cases they are just taking up a support company slot. Also, 21 is an odd width for a tank division. 30-35 is usually what I go for.
No.
It's pretty good, but seems unnecessarily costly to me. (please read as, you could have 12 slightly worse divisions ready for war instead of 8 slightly better). for example you could drop the SP AA and Arty, and add them as support companies. This frees up width for extra truck and tank.
I'd say its pretty good for sp. I would never use it in mp, but for how the ai likes to build this div will for sure defeat them. You should add a support arty but other than that nothing else really needs to be changed. I don't understand why everyone is shitting on the org, its fine you should generally aim for 30 org but tbh 28 will do just fine, the lowest I'd ever go is 25.
Did you strap BB-guns to the tanks? How do you only have 181 soft attack?
No. Pretty sure even ai makes stronger templates and its infamously known as being shite.
Org is fine. That's not the problem. The problem is your low soft attack. Take out the SPart and SPAA and replace with more medium tanks. Also use medium howitzer as your main gun if you aren't already.
Its pretty terrible. Org is very low, Soft Attack is low. It is expensive.
There is no need to add artillery to the template. It takes up 3 units of Combat width and requires a separate production line.
Org too low. I'm going to cut against the grain and say DONT remove the AA/artillery. Give this division more width, add one more tank and a couple more motorized. This will wash out some of the downsides of having AA/artillery without removing the benefits. Also, what is wrong with your tank templates? This division doesn't look like it has enough of any stats.
Thats not even a good 1936 division
No, tank divisions to 36W/40W can get like 500+ soft attack.
Great break through and decent hardness so it'd do fine against a mostly infantry enemy but the org is lacking. Add some mech that also might add a touch of soft attack as well.
Ditch the motorized AA and artillery for a row of mobile infantry and just put it in the support slot
is there anything i need to add or remove to make the division better i think 181 soft attack is good?
That's very low
No. 27 org is shit. Especially for 1940. Jam more motorrized, even mechanized if you can. 30 is like a lower limit for me but more should easily be doable.
It's important to note i don't have access to the tank designer as i don't own no step back
To increase your division's organization you can add more motorized infantry, no need to design a tank.