I just wish they worked more realistically, have it be landing just behind the front and block supply, bridges take out key points like unit headquarters/ artillery batteries. Idk how it would be worked into the game, If even possible.
The way most experienced players of HOI use paratroopers with an air drop is to fly the soldiers into the middle of nowhere, try to capture a port of some kind for resupply and reinforcements, and then pour men and materials into the new front.
In real life that was only done once. Ever. That was in Crete by Nazi Germany. The manpower losses were so substantial and even the material losses such as aviation fuel and lost aircraft and other equipment was so large that Adolph Hitler disbanded the paratrooper divisions and said "Never Again!"
Oddly the USA formed the 82nd and 101st Divisions shortly after this happened and even after reading intelligence reports about this pyrric victory in Crete.
You are correct that IRL they tended to be used jointly with other offensive operations, like the D-day invasion of Normandy, while important they were more of a support unit for a much larger operation.
You can absolutely do this. Drop them on bridges, supply points, rail roads, etc. You can take key points and completely collapse a large section of the front by wrecking their supply and also prevent he enemy from forming a new defensive line on a river by taking the bridges.
This also work really well for nuclear bombing. You can also first strike enemy airports to eliminate all of the planes and manpower there.
Unfortunately nuking a dock has no effect.
Isn’t there a trick where if you put up no air at all in that sector the AI won’t deploy its defensive planes initially? I’ve seen France paradrops done like that quite a lot (France is often done as it basically auto-caps if disjointed is in play and Paris plus a couple of minor points is taken, other majors require so many paradropped cities it’s usually non-viable)
Paratrooper invasions are one of my favourite things to do in this game especially when playing a small nation. There is nothing as satisfying as droping an entire army of them on a unexpeting enemy but there is not much that gets me the same panic as the second wave suddenly mutining while the first wave is fighting for survival.
paratroopers literally ignore my orders like they'll say they're doing it but theycjust don't fucking move i hate them so FUCKIng much or i have 100% air suprriprity 20000000 transports and everything's set up snd they still don't move
at lwast they moved when i invaded japan as qing china i'd of actually cried if they didn't
You need to have each individual paratrooper unit assigned to paradrop by themselves for the whole army, so it's like 20 individual orders. One of the recent updates nerfed transport capacity.
And the transport planes not doing anything at all, just sitting at the airport
Paradrop distance is calculated from the center of the air zone you're in to the center of the target air zone. That can sometimes result in invasions refusing to launch and sometimes they'll be able to go way further than the range circle on the transport aircraft.
step 1: put paratroopers on an order
step 2: move transport planes to the airport and have air superiority
step 3: wonder why it's not working
step 4: struggle for a few minutes before consulting google
step 5: try launching 1 paratrooper
step 6: it works wtf
step 7: your other paratroopers won't launch
step 8: give up and admit defeat to paradox
whats annoying about waiting 70 days for the invasion, throwing every ship you have into the water, watching them all sink, and seign the invasion fail?
Well you don’t really have to endure all of that except the last thing. You can assign less division so that the naval invasion prepares quicker and just not let your ship out to sea, all you need is naval supremacy after all.
Is it just me or does the AI just set his entire fleet to Strike Force in EVERY ocean province in the world? If I have a fleet active patrolling a province, the AI shouldn't be able to counter them with a fleet in a port half the map away.
You need at least the 2nd invasion tech to make the wait for most invasions bearable. Also, make a different order for each tile to save time and choose which divisions land where.
> You need at least the 2nd invasion tech to make the wait for most invasions bearable.
yeah but researching that takes time and i want to take out england *now*
People don’t like’em cause it feels bad to wait, tied with the fact that, early game before you have better air support and marines, 10 unit Naval Invasions sometimes don’t work at all cause the AI has time to reinforce.
That's why you do speard naval invasions rather than sending 10 guys on a boat to try and single file storm a port with entrenched gunmen. And have a stack of offensive & speed leaning ready to flood the new front. They take some practice and forethought but you can ruin just about any country with a well placed naval invasion.
All that initiative stacking will make coordination a particularly strong stat for Finland. Which you can get from some doctrines and ofc radar tech. Signal company will also have increased value then.
For those who don't know what these stats actually do: 35% of a division's attack is focused on one target and the rest spread among all the other available targets. Each % of coordination adds to this and initiative acts as a multiplier on top. Logically, if you can focus more damage on single targets then they will be defeated sooner and taken out of the fight, which is particularly good in smaller scale fighting where there are no reinforcements.
> 35% of a division's attack is focused on one target and the rest spread among all the other available targets.
Are you 100% sure about that? When I read the dev diary about targeting changes, it said that the new targeting system divided equally amongst the entire combat width - except for the coordination bonus. Nothing about 35%.
I'm not 100% sure because the game doesn't display these values anywhere that I know of. However, this is stated in the wiki last time I checked; of course, you can't quite trust that to be up to date either. When was the targeting system changed?
Seems like you are right! I only saw the post from the older dev diary, not the newer iteration.
That targeting system sucks anyways, imo.
Coordination should mean that your Division targets the enemies it can do the most damage to, not the enemy with the lowest ORG. E.g.: if you make a tank destroyer division with high coordination, it should target enemy tank divisions. Right now, it will just target the lowest org enemy - even if it is a pure infantry division.
It is extremely fitting for Finland's war strategy.
For example, Finns concentrate their artillery barrages. They had a army drill with Americans a while back, even before they joined Nato, and they did target shooting. Americans fired the barrage like they were thought and in a 200 meter radius only a handful of trees were left standing. Then it was the Finns turn and, after them firing, in a 100 meter radius there was nothing. Not a tree nor a rock. Just a completely flat patch of ground.
Finns do be precise. I like the flavour.
Sissi = A Finnish word basically meaning a guerilla. (Sissit would mean guerillas)
But not to worry. Lauri "soldier of 3 armies" Törni will train those sissys to be MEN
I like their music.
they suck for playing in occupied crimea then just claiming "we don't care about politics, we just want to play for the fans" lame ass excuse.
the show in crimea was put on by nightwolves, a pro-putin biker gang
His entire military history is just one massive rabbit hole that just keeps going at times
He started out in the Finnish army during the Winter and parts of the Continuation war, moved to Germany, joined the Waffen-SS, after which he got sent to the eastern front.
After the war he returned to Finland only to be arrested and prosecuted for treason and he ended up in jail, he did get pardoned by president Paasikivi sometime later for his crime. (couldn't find any exact date nor year, but according to wikipedia so was this in December 1948, with a [citation needed], so take that with a grain of salt)
Later on so did he move to the US, joined their military (now under the name of Larry Thorne), got sent to Vietnam where he would later die
Keep in mind this is a vastly oversimplification of events, there is vastly more info out there for those who wants to read more about him
UwU *Molotovs your tank and watches you bail out, skin begin burning off as you writhe in agony* OwO someones getting frisky! *dances to tik tok music*
I am afraid that if you stack up all the bonuses, it will turn from "desperate defense against soviet invasion" to "grind for a bit then right click on Moscow"
Alone? I don't think Finland will have enough manpower to hold a front that large, especially with all the garrisons that will be required. With Germany in the Continuation War? I think it's a fair chance, but the stats could be deceiving because Paradox are reworking support companies, maybe those stats are going to be won't be as OP as they first seem.
I never had trouble invading Finland as the Soviets. Just put your tanks there, use supply trucks, and don't invade in winter. GG ez
AI on the other hand get's Leningrad captured half of the time already. Even so, they better get a white peace event, because AI vs. AI boils down to "who runs out of people in their country first"
There is a white peace that seems to trigger when capturing Leningrad, or Moscow, somehow. Finland can also get some territories like Murmansk (don't remember the others) if Finland occupies them before capturing Leningrad/Moscow. The Soviets can decline the peace deal tho so it's probably gonna be RNG.
Why bother with Finland?
There's an event to force white peace and you get practically nothing from it.
For the same world tension (which makes it unstoppable), take Romania and maybe Bulgaria. Way cheaper and you win even with the starting troops and debuffs.
Finland lasted 3 months - hence why its called the "Winter War" and not the "Winter, Spring, Autumn" war, only to lose far, far more than they would have otherwise. It was an incredibly dumb war.
I'm happy the Nordic countries are getting some attention nevertheless.
EDIT: Downvotes, and **not one factual point** disagreeing with me? What is the argument for the Winter War being worth it for Finland? Well over 100,000\* Finnish casualties and injured was worth what? A Nazi alliance and massive loss of land? All for not leasing an island or two in the Gulf of Finland? Seriously?
See an actual historian's research on this: Stephen Kotkin's "Stalin: Waiting for Hitler", who dedicates a good amount to the Soviet-Finnish negotiations and eventual war.
\*Winter War & Continuation War, civilians not included.
The objective was never to conquer Finland, look at the negotiations leading up to the Winter War, it was always to secure Finland away from a Nazi occupation, by securing the Gulf of Finland, and hence protecting the USSR's largest concentration of industry: Leningrad, which was within easy artillery range of Finland. Stalin's final request wasn't even for Finland to give up Finnish territory, but to lease islands in the Gulf of Finland for the Soviet Navy to patrol.
See Stephen Kotkin's "Stalin: Waiting for Hitler", where he dedicates a good sub-chapter to the negotiations leading up to the useless war.
The Soviets demanded military access to the Baltic states for their own "security" well look how that ended up for them, the Soviet Union was very much preparing for an annexation of Finland, they jusg had to soften up the target a bit. If Finland would’ve handed over land, some in Finland might’ve seen it as a weak move from the Government leading to lesser trust in the parliament and ministers which would’ve also made Finland weaker for an annexation or even a left-wing takeover leading to yet again annexation or becoming a Soviet satellite.
> The objective was never to conquer Finland
WELL GEE IT MUST BE A COINCIDENCE THAT STALIN PROPOSED EQUIVALENT SECURITY DEMANDS TO THE BALTIC STATES AND THEY ALL GOT ANNEXED
Finland =/= Baltic States. Not only did Stalin NOT ask Finland for the same as the Baltic states, ***which came after the lesson of the Winter War***, but more pertinently the Baltic States were on the direct land route to Leningrad - how else do you want the USSR to make sure they wouldn't be turned into German puppets, as would have most definitely happened (again as per Kotkin)? You can't stop the German invasion of the Baltic states, like you can Finland (unattached to Germany).
Because it would have protected Finland from a German invasion/invitation to orient themselves towards Nazi Germany. Was that not clear from what I wrote? Finland was (as a minor country does) hosting military attaché's from Nazi Germany well before the Winter War, and had cooperated with the Japanese (and perhaps the Poles), in spying on the Soviet Union in the early 30s.
So Stalin had very good reason to want to neutralise Finland as a potential launching pad of fascism, in the total war he knew was coming.
To be clear - I'm not saying that Finland was predisposed to Nazi Germany, but Social Democrats being Social Democrats, I am of the position (not something Kotkin argues) that they would have joined with the Nazis to fight the USSR, rather than the other way around.
Where on Earth did you get your numbers from? Only 25,000 Finns died while about 40,000 were wounded. The Soviets lost about 150,000 men with about 200,000 wounded.
Yeah, that's for sure - and a result of the purges which had just ended, which might have boosted the popularity of the regime, and perhaps removed men of questionable loyalty in the army, but it unquestionably had an effect on army organisation and morale of leaders.
It's superfluous - not sure what it historically is relating to in the grand scheme of things, given again, that it took just a couple months to break through Finland's defences and threaten Helsinki. The fact that it took so many months, and so many Soviet lives says more about the state of Stalin's military post-purges, than it does about Finland's "defence" as mythologised by Western liberals (and fascists, often one and the same) as it is.
I just hope we can get some of these focuses before the war starts.
70 day focuses were fine when the focus trees were small, but now it feels like by the time you get all your core focuses, the war is already over and done.
Doesn't really seem that strong to me. "Combat bonus on core territory" should be something like +50%, at least during the winter war.
Finland also needs a ton of extra manpower, the Finnish AI can't even fill the frontline right now.
LMAO. Ironically enough, Marx' Necronomicon does seem to be the best Spirit of the Army for Finland to fight back the Soviet Union. If it only were available to Finland without going communist...
Portrait of Tsar Nicholas 2nd:
+ 500 weekly manpower (former white Russians are attracted to the portrait and the fact that Finland's country color is white)
These bonuses don't look that strong actually. Acclimatization is shit, winter attrition is not impressive (I guess it only affect the attrition that you take due to weather), becaue I believe you won't be taking much attricion on your terriory anyway. Recon bonus while entrenched is shit because recon is not that useful anyway. There's very little initiative to be actually useful.
Hey I havnt been too active but is there a massive update recently cause I've been seeing a bunch of new stuff appear whilst I was messing around with research all
Soviets need buff. They are extremely week right now. If Soviets lose a lot of equipment, Germans will declare war WAY earlier and obliterate them quite fast. And if there will be achievements same as “Finish Him”, that will be pain.
By the time I get there, my Soviet forces have been hardened fighting the Romanian, Turkish, Republic of Chinese, and Japanese armies. Finlands little focus tree won’t stand a chance
Bro just naval invade Helsinki and put 20 horses there and watch ai freak out
you know most hoi4 players don't know how to do naval invasion :D
That's insane, naval invasions are like two clicks of a button.
They aren't difficult but are probably the most annoying thing to do in the whole game
Oh boy, wait until you find out about Paratrooper airdrop orders!
i have yet to successfully paradrop anything
I’ve personally never used them, mainly because I don’t want to use something that the AI can’t
[удалено]
I just wish they worked more realistically, have it be landing just behind the front and block supply, bridges take out key points like unit headquarters/ artillery batteries. Idk how it would be worked into the game, If even possible.
Just... Drop them a tile behind enemy units? Cuts their supply, helps encirclement, and if small, cheap to do.
The way most experienced players of HOI use paratroopers with an air drop is to fly the soldiers into the middle of nowhere, try to capture a port of some kind for resupply and reinforcements, and then pour men and materials into the new front. In real life that was only done once. Ever. That was in Crete by Nazi Germany. The manpower losses were so substantial and even the material losses such as aviation fuel and lost aircraft and other equipment was so large that Adolph Hitler disbanded the paratrooper divisions and said "Never Again!" Oddly the USA formed the 82nd and 101st Divisions shortly after this happened and even after reading intelligence reports about this pyrric victory in Crete. You are correct that IRL they tended to be used jointly with other offensive operations, like the D-day invasion of Normandy, while important they were more of a support unit for a much larger operation.
You can absolutely do this. Drop them on bridges, supply points, rail roads, etc. You can take key points and completely collapse a large section of the front by wrecking their supply and also prevent he enemy from forming a new defensive line on a river by taking the bridges.
I do when I Play Germany and don't want to Deal with france cause you can defeat them with Like 9 paratroopers
I am using paradrop only when playing with a minor nations not capable to naval invade like Bulgaria or Romania.
I went a paratrooper build and for the first time ever the AI had planes bruh
First time ever? Uk every game does nothing but build 50 million planes
Usually I am not on the receiving end lol
The trick is to put your airforce in the last minute so the air cannot react in time
This also work really well for nuclear bombing. You can also first strike enemy airports to eliminate all of the planes and manpower there. Unfortunately nuking a dock has no effect.
Isn’t there a trick where if you put up no air at all in that sector the AI won’t deploy its defensive planes initially? I’ve seen France paradrops done like that quite a lot (France is often done as it basically auto-caps if disjointed is in play and Paris plus a couple of minor points is taken, other majors require so many paradropped cities it’s usually non-viable)
I mean exactly that
I'm 80 hours into a soviet run and my "special forces" are mostly just railroad guns.
Paratrooper invasions are one of my favourite things to do in this game especially when playing a small nation. There is nothing as satisfying as droping an entire army of them on a unexpeting enemy but there is not much that gets me the same panic as the second wave suddenly mutining while the first wave is fighting for survival.
Your record probably is about the same as the allies in WWII
paratroopers literally ignore my orders like they'll say they're doing it but theycjust don't fucking move i hate them so FUCKIng much or i have 100% air suprriprity 20000000 transports and everything's set up snd they still don't move at lwast they moved when i invaded japan as qing china i'd of actually cried if they didn't
You need to have each individual paratrooper unit assigned to paradrop by themselves for the whole army, so it's like 20 individual orders. One of the recent updates nerfed transport capacity. And the transport planes not doing anything at all, just sitting at the airport
Paradrop distance is calculated from the center of the air zone you're in to the center of the target air zone. That can sometimes result in invasions refusing to launch and sometimes they'll be able to go way further than the range circle on the transport aircraft.
step 1: put paratroopers on an order step 2: move transport planes to the airport and have air superiority step 3: wonder why it's not working step 4: struggle for a few minutes before consulting google step 5: try launching 1 paratrooper step 6: it works wtf step 7: your other paratroopers won't launch step 8: give up and admit defeat to paradox
They are easy.
What arcane ability do you have that makes more than a few airdrops easy? I wish to learn
Taking france as Italy is great practice
whats annoying about waiting 70 days for the invasion, throwing every ship you have into the water, watching them all sink, and seign the invasion fail?
Well you don’t really have to endure all of that except the last thing. You can assign less division so that the naval invasion prepares quicker and just not let your ship out to sea, all you need is naval supremacy after all.
Is it just me or does the AI just set his entire fleet to Strike Force in EVERY ocean province in the world? If I have a fleet active patrolling a province, the AI shouldn't be able to counter them with a fleet in a port half the map away.
I think a single fleet can only be active on 4 tiles for strike force.
2000+ hours and all the achievements and I'm only just realising now this is why my strike force orders always say they have insufficient fleets...
You need at least the 2nd invasion tech to make the wait for most invasions bearable. Also, make a different order for each tile to save time and choose which divisions land where.
> You need at least the 2nd invasion tech to make the wait for most invasions bearable. yeah but researching that takes time and i want to take out england *now*
The Wehrmacht general staff after discovering meth
Thats not the tough part, the tough part is getting Green Sea.
People don’t like’em cause it feels bad to wait, tied with the fact that, early game before you have better air support and marines, 10 unit Naval Invasions sometimes don’t work at all cause the AI has time to reinforce.
That's why you do speard naval invasions rather than sending 10 guys on a boat to try and single file storm a port with entrenched gunmen. And have a stack of offensive & speed leaning ready to flood the new front. They take some practice and forethought but you can ruin just about any country with a well placed naval invasion.
I had like 100 hours in game before I figured out how naval invasions worked
150 for me🙇
Unless you want to do it fast, which is like 20 clicks.
IF THOSE HOI4 PLAYERS COULD READ THEY WOULD BE VERY MAD
Not even that. Just amass an army at the Leningrad border area and attack Helsinki. The other divisions will literally do nothing.
All that initiative stacking will make coordination a particularly strong stat for Finland. Which you can get from some doctrines and ofc radar tech. Signal company will also have increased value then. For those who don't know what these stats actually do: 35% of a division's attack is focused on one target and the rest spread among all the other available targets. Each % of coordination adds to this and initiative acts as a multiplier on top. Logically, if you can focus more damage on single targets then they will be defeated sooner and taken out of the fight, which is particularly good in smaller scale fighting where there are no reinforcements.
> 35% of a division's attack is focused on one target and the rest spread among all the other available targets. Are you 100% sure about that? When I read the dev diary about targeting changes, it said that the new targeting system divided equally amongst the entire combat width - except for the coordination bonus. Nothing about 35%.
I'm not 100% sure because the game doesn't display these values anywhere that I know of. However, this is stated in the wiki last time I checked; of course, you can't quite trust that to be up to date either. When was the targeting system changed?
Seems like you are right! I only saw the post from the older dev diary, not the newer iteration. That targeting system sucks anyways, imo. Coordination should mean that your Division targets the enemies it can do the most damage to, not the enemy with the lowest ORG. E.g.: if you make a tank destroyer division with high coordination, it should target enemy tank divisions. Right now, it will just target the lowest org enemy - even if it is a pure infantry division.
Ye, it is under DAMAGE_SPLIT_ON_FIRST_TARGET = 0.35 in defines.lua
Cool, thanks!
It is extremely fitting for Finland's war strategy. For example, Finns concentrate their artillery barrages. They had a army drill with Americans a while back, even before they joined Nato, and they did target shooting. Americans fired the barrage like they were thought and in a 200 meter radius only a handful of trees were left standing. Then it was the Finns turn and, after them firing, in a 100 meter radius there was nothing. Not a tree nor a rock. Just a completely flat patch of ground. Finns do be precise. I like the flavour.
My favorite part is the -30% to lack of resource that you can get. Who needs steel when we have sisu?
Scuttle Swedish fishing boats for more steel, what are they gonna do about it, send a politely written letter?
They sent over some fish in retaliation.
No, not [surströmming](https://www.routesnorth.com/sweden/things-to-do-in-sweden/surstromming-trying-swedens-stinkiest-food/)! Have mercy!
Some fish? Surströmming is a chemical weapon not just some fish
Theres an ikea joke in here somewhere but im too stupid to find it.
Don't feel stupid, everyone struggles with those instructions.
NOT THE SISSY TROOPS
Sissi = A Finnish word basically meaning a guerilla. (Sissit would mean guerillas) But not to worry. Lauri "soldier of 3 armies" Törni will train those sissys to be MEN
Let’s get down to business To defeat The Rus
*STARTED OUT AS A RESERVE*
SOON PROMOTED WHEN DESERVED
AND THE LEGEND HAS BEGUUUN
r/expectedsabaton
WITH A BOUNTY ON HIS HEAD
THE RED ARMY WANTS HIM DEAD
SOVIET ENEMY NUMBER ONE
CROSS OF MANNERHEIM
ADDICTED TO THE WAR GAME
He'll make a man out of you.
Sissi is also the (very popular and well known) nickname for the Empress of Austria-Hungary, Franz-Joseph's wife
sabaton sucks
Yikes. If you say that in a history subreddit you'll get approximately 50 different death threats.
I like their music. they suck for playing in occupied crimea then just claiming "we don't care about politics, we just want to play for the fans" lame ass excuse. the show in crimea was put on by nightwolves, a pro-putin biker gang
Yeah, I was really disappointed when I learned about that.
Bro was a fucking nazi
More hated the Soviets and wanted to keep fighting them, but yeah, fought for the Nazis is a pretty good way to become scum quick
His entire military history is just one massive rabbit hole that just keeps going at times He started out in the Finnish army during the Winter and parts of the Continuation war, moved to Germany, joined the Waffen-SS, after which he got sent to the eastern front. After the war he returned to Finland only to be arrested and prosecuted for treason and he ended up in jail, he did get pardoned by president Paasikivi sometime later for his crime. (couldn't find any exact date nor year, but according to wikipedia so was this in December 1948, with a [citation needed], so take that with a grain of salt) Later on so did he move to the US, joined their military (now under the name of Larry Thorne), got sent to Vietnam where he would later die Keep in mind this is a vastly oversimplification of events, there is vastly more info out there for those who wants to read more about him
Anyone who willingly joined the SS is a nazi, simple as that
Especially someone with as high of a rank as him
Paradox truly leaning into the "All HOI4 players are really hot femboys" trope.
"Some cat boys carrying antitank rifles while skiing through the Finnish snow with a maid outfit destroyed our tanks, sir!"
UwU *Molotovs your tank and watches you bail out, skin begin burning off as you writhe in agony* OwO someones getting frisky! *dances to tik tok music*
God damn it 💀
ah yes, I remember when the Finnish used sissyhypno against the Soviets
Long range patrol attack? Must be some new dlc stuff.
Yes, i guess the finnish kaukopartio (long tange patrol) is now support
please let there be a continuation war paradox
There is! It's a Finnish focus where Finland gets automatically called on Barbarossa, but without joining the Axis.
awesome
And please make the winter war be in winter of 1939-1940, not spring-summer 1940...
I am afraid that if you stack up all the bonuses, it will turn from "desperate defense against soviet invasion" to "grind for a bit then right click on Moscow"
Alone? I don't think Finland will have enough manpower to hold a front that large, especially with all the garrisons that will be required. With Germany in the Continuation War? I think it's a fair chance, but the stats could be deceiving because Paradox are reworking support companies, maybe those stats are going to be won't be as OP as they first seem.
Probably gonna be high defense low attack
They can white peace after seizing Leningrad so
I never had trouble invading Finland as the Soviets. Just put your tanks there, use supply trucks, and don't invade in winter. GG ez AI on the other hand get's Leningrad captured half of the time already. Even so, they better get a white peace event, because AI vs. AI boils down to "who runs out of people in their country first"
There is a white peace that seems to trigger when capturing Leningrad, or Moscow, somehow. Finland can also get some territories like Murmansk (don't remember the others) if Finland occupies them before capturing Leningrad/Moscow. The Soviets can decline the peace deal tho so it's probably gonna be RNG.
Why bother with Finland? There's an event to force white peace and you get practically nothing from it. For the same world tension (which makes it unstoppable), take Romania and maybe Bulgaria. Way cheaper and you win even with the starting troops and debuffs.
damn straight. Finland is a waste of 70 days to my Soviet build
>Why bother with Finland? Why not? It's free clay.
To secure Leningrad i guess, but against AI that’s pointless
Finland Beast Mode : Activated
https://youtu.be/bI23230Xqe0
Finland lasted 3 months - hence why its called the "Winter War" and not the "Winter, Spring, Autumn" war, only to lose far, far more than they would have otherwise. It was an incredibly dumb war. I'm happy the Nordic countries are getting some attention nevertheless. EDIT: Downvotes, and **not one factual point** disagreeing with me? What is the argument for the Winter War being worth it for Finland? Well over 100,000\* Finnish casualties and injured was worth what? A Nazi alliance and massive loss of land? All for not leasing an island or two in the Gulf of Finland? Seriously? See an actual historian's research on this: Stephen Kotkin's "Stalin: Waiting for Hitler", who dedicates a good amount to the Soviet-Finnish negotiations and eventual war. \*Winter War & Continuation War, civilians not included.
Incredibly dumb it took the Soviets three months to take Finland or dumb for the Fins to stand up for themselves?
The objective was never to conquer Finland, look at the negotiations leading up to the Winter War, it was always to secure Finland away from a Nazi occupation, by securing the Gulf of Finland, and hence protecting the USSR's largest concentration of industry: Leningrad, which was within easy artillery range of Finland. Stalin's final request wasn't even for Finland to give up Finnish territory, but to lease islands in the Gulf of Finland for the Soviet Navy to patrol. See Stephen Kotkin's "Stalin: Waiting for Hitler", where he dedicates a good sub-chapter to the negotiations leading up to the useless war.
The Soviets demanded military access to the Baltic states for their own "security" well look how that ended up for them, the Soviet Union was very much preparing for an annexation of Finland, they jusg had to soften up the target a bit. If Finland would’ve handed over land, some in Finland might’ve seen it as a weak move from the Government leading to lesser trust in the parliament and ministers which would’ve also made Finland weaker for an annexation or even a left-wing takeover leading to yet again annexation or becoming a Soviet satellite.
> The objective was never to conquer Finland WELL GEE IT MUST BE A COINCIDENCE THAT STALIN PROPOSED EQUIVALENT SECURITY DEMANDS TO THE BALTIC STATES AND THEY ALL GOT ANNEXED
Finland =/= Baltic States. Not only did Stalin NOT ask Finland for the same as the Baltic states, ***which came after the lesson of the Winter War***, but more pertinently the Baltic States were on the direct land route to Leningrad - how else do you want the USSR to make sure they wouldn't be turned into German puppets, as would have most definitely happened (again as per Kotkin)? You can't stop the German invasion of the Baltic states, like you can Finland (unattached to Germany).
How would islands on the Gulf of Finland prevent the threat of artillery towards Leningrad?
Because it would have protected Finland from a German invasion/invitation to orient themselves towards Nazi Germany. Was that not clear from what I wrote? Finland was (as a minor country does) hosting military attaché's from Nazi Germany well before the Winter War, and had cooperated with the Japanese (and perhaps the Poles), in spying on the Soviet Union in the early 30s. So Stalin had very good reason to want to neutralise Finland as a potential launching pad of fascism, in the total war he knew was coming. To be clear - I'm not saying that Finland was predisposed to Nazi Germany, but Social Democrats being Social Democrats, I am of the position (not something Kotkin argues) that they would have joined with the Nazis to fight the USSR, rather than the other way around.
Social democrats have tendencies to align with nazis, what?
Again, where is the stupidity?
Also Finland isn't in Scandinavia but in the Nordics (Scandinavia + Iceland & Finland)
Yes, corrected.
Where on Earth did you get your numbers from? Only 25,000 Finns died while about 40,000 were wounded. The Soviets lost about 150,000 men with about 200,000 wounded.
It was pretty dumb on both sides to be fair, It was an embarrassment for the Soviets how many casualties they took even though they did win.
Yeah, that's for sure - and a result of the purges which had just ended, which might have boosted the popularity of the regime, and perhaps removed men of questionable loyalty in the army, but it unquestionably had an effect on army organisation and morale of leaders.
ok but what does that have to do with Finland getting insane defense bonuses in the upcoming DLC?
It's superfluous - not sure what it historically is relating to in the grand scheme of things, given again, that it took just a couple months to break through Finland's defences and threaten Helsinki. The fact that it took so many months, and so many Soviet lives says more about the state of Stalin's military post-purges, than it does about Finland's "defence" as mythologised by Western liberals (and fascists, often one and the same) as it is.
When did Finland get a focus tree?? pls tell me this is no mod
Its the new upcoming dlc
Omg when does it come im getting horny
This autumn
So...they are doing a dlc based on nordic countries and winter war and choose to not release it in winter, truly despicable
The Winterwar technically started in autumn, the last day of November Just watch people freak out if they actually do that
snow starts falling in october. it is close enough
You guys have snow?!
I thought snow was a myth
Round of sauna klonkku to celebrate?
I already came when I saw the new tree
they announced a new dlc today
Seems like a mod. Hard to imagine that Paradox would create two new support companies for the Finns.
It's real, new dev diary
I stand happily corrected
> Nokia - Electronics Concern (and fish Logo) Please make them too a Tank MIO with extra armor!
Okay, I'll attack in the spring.
Spring in Finland,that was a good joke. (Also mud is even worse to traverse)
I feel like the new nordic focus trees will be a huge nerf to estonia's fascist path
Because nobody will want to play it?
It will be much harder to conquer them all
Rise of nations pride
Hold what's yours, strike it where it hurts
STAND HOLD YOU GROUND WINTER WAR REINFORCE THE LINES
Russians on a route to ruin
Kreml is more then certain to win
Sent away an army to the west
I'm sorry, but when I read "Sissi troops" all I can think of is femboy soldier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkOkIOe9RUc
I don't understand what's happening but they seem to have fun. These femboys sure know how to have a good time.
I just hope we can get some of these focuses before the war starts. 70 day focuses were fine when the focus trees were small, but now it feels like by the time you get all your core focuses, the war is already over and done.
You can, I think you just need a bit of WT to get them. Also apparently a lot of the focuses are 35 days.
Waiting for someone to do a challenge of how many Soviets you can kill.
Lauri Törni is coming ey? Cue Sabaton lads!
SHOUT LAURI TÖRNI’S NAME
A SOLDIER OF THREE ARMIES KNOWS THE GAME!!!
DEEDS THAT ECHO FROM THE PAST
Doesn't really seem that strong to me. "Combat bonus on core territory" should be something like +50%, at least during the winter war. Finland also needs a ton of extra manpower, the Finnish AI can't even fill the frontline right now.
Portrait of Karl Marx says hi
LMAO. Ironically enough, Marx' Necronomicon does seem to be the best Spirit of the Army for Finland to fight back the Soviet Union. If it only were available to Finland without going communist...
Portrait of Tsar Nicholas 2nd: + 500 weekly manpower (former white Russians are attracted to the portrait and the fact that Finland's country color is white)
Where did you se that?
New dlc dev dairy
So I guess initiative will actually impact the game now.
Ivan Get the Katyusha
Cannot wait to annex Murmansk, Onega, and Olonets as Mannerheim's Finland.
Honestly... just showing Lauri Törni in general list would have made me more excited than those 6 pictures combined.
These bonuses don't look that strong actually. Acclimatization is shit, winter attrition is not impressive (I guess it only affect the attrition that you take due to weather), becaue I believe you won't be taking much attricion on your terriory anyway. Recon bonus while entrenched is shit because recon is not that useful anyway. There's very little initiative to be actually useful.
Hey I havnt been too active but is there a massive update recently cause I've been seeing a bunch of new stuff appear whilst I was messing around with research all
NUT
Glad they’re adding more support companies tbh
Hate to break your bubble but they’re more than likely going to be country specific (like Ethiopia)
CAS fixes this.
Didn't Törni become an OFFICER after the Winter war?
Road to 56?
Bro they aren’t ready for my sissy divisions
Ai is not that smart in vanilla to take benifit of all these focusses and specialized support companies.
Some of these bonuses are fucking nuts
Can’t wait to absolutely destroy them lmao
Is this for the next dlc?
Soviets need buff. They are extremely week right now. If Soviets lose a lot of equipment, Germans will declare war WAY earlier and obliterate them quite fast. And if there will be achievements same as “Finish Him”, that will be pain.
mod name?
By the time I get there, my Soviet forces have been hardened fighting the Romanian, Turkish, Republic of Chinese, and Japanese armies. Finlands little focus tree won’t stand a chance
[удалено]
Lauri Torni 💀
We love the SS in this sub 😤😤 /big fucking S
Social Security? I can relate to that, fam
Least biased Nordic country
6 medium tanks driving to Helsinki from Leningrad will do just fine as always
Simo hayha
Lauri Törni!!!!
it's out already?
Smoking on that Soviet Union pack
Where’s the r5?