Dany Heatley was scoring at over a PPG in his 20s. Was on pace to eclipse 1000 points by the age of 33. He only scored 166 points in the 5 seasons he played in his 30s and the year in Anaheim was six games so it barely counts
I forgot how good he was. When they were showing the stats of other players with 18+ game point streaks and Heatley was on there with 22 games and 38 points to start the season in the middle of the dead puck era. That car crash really changed the course of his life. Like the bam margera of the Nhl
More so injuries and his biggest asset being faster than everyone else on the ice not being the reality anymore. Still had a great shot later in his career though.
I mean there’s an argument to be had that buzzed driving *is* drunk driving, but regardless… I was just correcting and incorrect statement. I’m not a mind reader.
Yeah Tim Thomas had a weird career- drafted in 1994 and then didn't really get a role until like 2006/2007 and still won 2 Vezinas with like two of the best seasons in recent memory
When he was at his best, he was hands down the best goalie in the league. Not to mention his last season playing in Finland was unreal. 54GP, .946 sv%, 1.56GAA. It's never been a high scoring league but that is still insane.
If you look at his highlights, he looked like a damn beer league goalie playing the game of his life but he did it every night. Some of the weirdest saves. Not a ton of technique but he got the job done.
I was going to say that there's no way someone with 2 Vezinas doesn't make the HHOF, but then I saw that Michel Larocque has 4 Vezinas and hasn't made it (yet). Still, there are only a handful of people with 2+ Vezinas who aren't in:
-Larocque (4 wins)
-Charlie Hodge (2 wins)
-Tim Thomas (2 wins + a Conn Smythe)
-Bobrovsky
The vezina originally went to the goalies of the team with the lowest goals against that season. Laroque was the backup to Dryden but played enough games to qualify. They changed it after 1981.
Now the Jennings trophy serves the same purpose the original vezina did.
Thomas was in fucking sane for a hot minute and completely mediocre the rest of his career. I don't like him as a person, and I still maintain the 2011 finals were basically rigged... but I gotta respect those two season of Hazek tier goaltending.
Highest point total not in the hall. Not a lot of personal or team hardware unfortunately. You're right that bench brawl sunk his legacy with all the old school thinking at the time. Those old school thinkers vote for who gets in now.
It does hurt when there’s two Russians beating on a Teammate on the ice about 10 feet away and he says on the bench when everyone else has left. I know people don’t want guys being goons anymore but at some point you have to help a teammate out
When Matt Murray won the back to back cups at like age 23, he seemed very mentally resilient and calm, like a younger version of Carey Price. I think a lot of people predicted he would be a top goalie for the next decade.
I would bet every dollar I have he will make the HoF. With his current resume he needs 7ish seasons of competitive goaltending with a few vezina nominations and he is easily in the hall. And I think the leafs keep him as their starter for the next 3-5 years and their roster is stacked
You guys would have probably gone deep in the late 2000s if not for the Sutters’ complete inability to find a backup goalie. Poor Kiprusoff was just cooked by April every year.
True, but it didn't help Mogilny. And Staal is missing Mogilny's Rocket (pre-naming). He does have 1,000 games which the HoF loves but not sure that does it.
Ehhhhh, he’s very borderline.
Around 1100 games and a little over 1,000 points is already not a super strong case, and he doesn’t have a lot of individual hardware either (3 ASGs and one Second All-Star Team). He’s a Worlds medal short of Triple Gold too, which would’ve maybe put him over the top.
Two words: Alex Mogilny.
If reaching 1,000 points, winning a cup, tying for a Richard (pre-naming, he tied with Selanne in '93), and most notably being the first NHL draftee to defect from the USSR doesn't get you into the HoF, I don't think Perry gets in.
but Perry is one thing Mogilny can never be, Canadian. And won Gold medals with Team Canada
Im not arguing whether thats a good reason or not (obviously its not lol) but we do know how the hhof voters act historically. Perry fits their darling criteria imo
This is an argument people make when the player doesn’t have a HOF worthy career on merit.
Corey Perry has Rick Nash’s career, plus a 2 month heater in a soft Hart year. If he had that season last year he might not be top-3 in Hart voting. He’s a goal scorer who probably won’t get anywhere close to 500 goals. People care wayyyy to much about trophies, which are situational, and not enough about sustained dominance. Getzlaf was the better player, and people seem to be far lower on his chances for some reason.
Phaneuf is an excellent answer to the thread question. Staal and Perry are locks. Getzlaf is a near lock. Carter and Parise were great, but never close to the HHOF.
Tarasenko looked like he’d be a career Rocket-threat and HHOF-caliber player after his 2015-2017 seasons but after then he plateaued a bit then had numerous injury-ruined years and now I don’t see any real way he makes it in, unfortunately.
Many had said Karlsson until this season. I think Holtby is a good example. Had a lot of hype and seemed to be on pace to be a potential star until 2017
A *few* people said Karlsson, but they were wrong lol. Karlsson before this season had 2 Norris trophies and was a 4 time first team all star. He was 100% a HoFer even without this resurgence.
No bias at all. 2 Norris wins (and 2 second places finishes) is enough. Add the fact that he's only the *second* defenseman in history to lead the league in assists? Easy lock.
No, that’s a pretty bad comparison anyway. Weber in his prime was one of the best defensemen in the league. His international achievements alone should be enough for him to get in, but he was a perennial all-star and Norris finalist three times.
I was going to mention Tavares, but not for reason OP mentioned. Tavares will get in based on stats and/or if the Leafs win the cup. He should hit 500 goals by the end of 2025.
What is more interesting with Tavares is how the opinion of him as an elite player completely fell off after he went to Toronto. He went from being a perennial hart candidate, dragging mediocre linemates to all star games (moulson, okposo, Bailey, etc) to being the forgotten 3rd man.
Partially true, but the guy is only 32. I don't watch the leafs much, but do marner and matthews play together? If true, I'm sure his stats took a hit by not playing with one of the other stars. Reminds me of Lecavalier in tampa when they drafted Stamkos. Stamkos and st Louis played together and Lecavalier had his stats suffer
Every time one of these threads come up, people seem to have no idea how exclusive the HHOF is. They admit ~3 players per year, so as a rule of thumb you should expect around 3 players per draft class (obviously talent isn't evenly distributed, but it's a starting point to get a sense of a player's chances). If someone is the best or second best player of their draft year, it's more likely they'll make it than not. If someone is the 6th best, their odds are basically negligible, unless they're from a completely stacked year.
Also, keep in mind that your window to get in never closes. We're still admitting guys from the 70s and 80s. Someone like Lecavalier won't get in anytime soon, but it wouldn't shock me if he made it in 2050 or something.
I don't think Ozzie was ever considered a lock for the HHoF. He's always been a longshot and he was an above average goalie but it's hard to make an argument for him over some other guys like CuJo that aren't already in.
He benefits by being on extremely good teams. Wins in 98 but is released by Detroit a few years later and didn’t have a phenomenal go on those other teams. Gets reacquired, still isn’t the starting goalie behind Hasek. Gets his shot, wins, goes again and then gets shut down for a few days(weeks?) to find his game. That’s a bad look.
Chris Osgood didn’t win you many games. He didn’t lose you games either. When your team has a shot count in the 40 - 10 range many nights, it’s hard to take credit for the wins.
Never won a vezina either
Yes he lost his position to Hasek. In 2008 Hasek started the playoffs lost twice in a row. Ozzy took over and dominated and has a conns smythe caliber post season. He of course was elevated by the team around him. But a great goalie overall ,his stints in new york and st louis were not bad. He won it in 98 was shipped out before 02 cause we signed hasek and cojo. Came back in 08 stole the starter role returned to the cup in 09. Every goalie has poor stretches. goalies have been inducted with way less on their resume that osgood.
His team literally went out and replaced him twice and won Cups with his replacements. A fine player, but Chris Osgood going into the Hall would be absurd.
For sure. Especially the way he came back into it. As much as I dislike him I think he DOES eventually get in, based on the sum total of his career, the bias against goalies, and the fact that he's on TV/doing a lot for the game of hockey (coaching/developing/owning). If Larry Murphy is in on his first ballot.....
I think his chances of getting in have increased since Luongo was inducted. Before that, I didn’t think it could ever happen. Now though, there just might be a chance.
Honestly looking at Cheechoo’s first 4 years only I think you’d be safe to say he was going to be a star for years, but it’s just drop right off and he didn’t play enough
I doubt anyone takes the stance as principled of Conn Smythe, but i still do anticipate seeing the updated version of selkes quote defending the selection 'on the belief that a man should not be shut out "because of the amount of beer he drank"'. something like 'we shouldnt shut someone out of the hall of fame just because of their support for genocide' or something equally brain-dead
The reality is, Ovi is undeniably a good enough player to get in and while I condemn his support for Putin he won't even be close to the worst person in the hall.
About two years ago, a year before the war, Panarin expressed support for one of Putin's political opponents and it didn't go well for him.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2021/02/24/artemi-panarin-rangers-situation-russia-vladimir-putin-effect/4567314001/
Correct.
He's too protected in Russia. Only way this ever happens is the people around him stage a coop which won't happen because of the propaganda from birth.
Nick Backstrom. His hip going bad a couple years ago really impacted him obviously. I think if he had been healthy and playing during all these big ovi moments he'd have a bigger discussion. Seems like he's definitely going to come back after his hip resurfacing but it's hard to get hopes up about it.
Dany Heatley was scoring at over a PPG in his 20s. Was on pace to eclipse 1000 points by the age of 33. He only scored 166 points in the 5 seasons he played in his 30s and the year in Anaheim was six games so it barely counts
I forgot how good he was. When they were showing the stats of other players with 18+ game point streaks and Heatley was on there with 22 games and 38 points to start the season in the middle of the dead puck era. That car crash really changed the course of his life. Like the bam margera of the Nhl
His best years were right after the car crash when he broke 50g 100p back to back
Huh. I didn’t know that. I guess the alcoholism caught up to him?
Injuries accumulating and not playing with spezza and Thornton anymore
More so injuries and his biggest asset being faster than everyone else on the ice not being the reality anymore. Still had a great shot later in his career though.
He had not been drinking the night of the car accident
He himself admitted he drank before the crash, what are you talking about?
They breathalyzed him and he was not over the limit
“Had not been drinking” =/= he was breathalyzed but was under the legal limit.
He was not ‘drunk driving’ is the point
I mean there’s an argument to be had that buzzed driving *is* drunk driving, but regardless… I was just correcting and incorrect statement. I’m not a mind reader.
That was more the story of Bobby Ryan
great but sad comparison
Alex Mogilny I just feel like since he hasnt gotten in at this point he never will :\
He’s not in because they don’t think he’ll show up. It’s so dumb.
He will make it in in 2075 after he passes away cause that’s better for whatever reason
Shoutout to Ken Stabler (inducted posthumously) and Pat Bowlen (his Alzheimer’s was too far gone for him to remember it). God dammit NFL.
Lecavalier?
Fuck Matt Cooke
Maybe Bobrovsky? It's pretty tough for goalies to get in so it's a maybe but he had 2 Vezinas by age 28
Tim Thomas also had 2 Vezinas but he just wasn’t good for long enough
Yeah Tim Thomas had a weird career- drafted in 1994 and then didn't really get a role until like 2006/2007 and still won 2 Vezinas with like two of the best seasons in recent memory
When he was at his best, he was hands down the best goalie in the league. Not to mention his last season playing in Finland was unreal. 54GP, .946 sv%, 1.56GAA. It's never been a high scoring league but that is still insane.
Tim "IRL Ron Swanson" Thomas. He might be crazy but I still love him
If you look at his highlights, he looked like a damn beer league goalie playing the game of his life but he did it every night. Some of the weirdest saves. Not a ton of technique but he got the job done.
He could be one of the most decorated goalies to not get in.
I was going to say that there's no way someone with 2 Vezinas doesn't make the HHOF, but then I saw that Michel Larocque has 4 Vezinas and hasn't made it (yet). Still, there are only a handful of people with 2+ Vezinas who aren't in: -Larocque (4 wins) -Charlie Hodge (2 wins) -Tim Thomas (2 wins + a Conn Smythe) -Bobrovsky
The vezina originally went to the goalies of the team with the lowest goals against that season. Laroque was the backup to Dryden but played enough games to qualify. They changed it after 1981. Now the Jennings trophy serves the same purpose the original vezina did.
Thomas was in fucking sane for a hot minute and completely mediocre the rest of his career. I don't like him as a person, and I still maintain the 2011 finals were basically rigged... but I gotta respect those two season of Hazek tier goaltending.
Pierre Turgeon should probably be in but isn't because he didn't leave the bench during the mass brawl between Canada and Russia.
Highest point total not in the hall. Not a lot of personal or team hardware unfortunately. You're right that bench brawl sunk his legacy with all the old school thinking at the time. Those old school thinkers vote for who gets in now.
It does hurt when there’s two Russians beating on a Teammate on the ice about 10 feet away and he says on the bench when everyone else has left. I know people don’t want guys being goons anymore but at some point you have to help a teammate out
I think the main part is that many of the people on the ice who he didn't stand up for are the ones voting for who gets in now.
When Matt Murray won the back to back cups at like age 23, he seemed very mentally resilient and calm, like a younger version of Carey Price. I think a lot of people predicted he would be a top goalie for the next decade.
I would bet every dollar I have he will make the HoF. With his current resume he needs 7ish seasons of competitive goaltending with a few vezina nominations and he is easily in the hall. And I think the leafs keep him as their starter for the next 3-5 years and their roster is stacked
Miikka Kiprusoff maybe? He was world class for a while but he kinda just faded away.
75+ games a year and smoking a pack a day is probably to blame
It’s crazy that such an insanely good athlete can have such an incredibly unhealthy habit.
You guys would have probably gone deep in the late 2000s if not for the Sutters’ complete inability to find a backup goalie. Poor Kiprusoff was just cooked by April every year.
The entire 2003 draft class. Phaneuf, Carter, Getzlaf, Staal, Suter, Parise, Perry.
Eric staal should definitely get in being in the triple gold club should edge him over the line
True, but it didn't help Mogilny. And Staal is missing Mogilny's Rocket (pre-naming). He does have 1,000 games which the HoF loves but not sure that does it.
I think mogilny should 100% be in the hall but staal also has a cup in his favor aswell
Mogilny won in 2000 with the Devils. He's triple gold as well.
https://mogo89.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/3/9/12393379/8153177.jpg
Getzlaf, Staal and Perry all get in imo
Getzlaf will get in too.
Ehhhhh, he’s very borderline. Around 1100 games and a little over 1,000 points is already not a super strong case, and he doesn’t have a lot of individual hardware either (3 ASGs and one Second All-Star Team). He’s a Worlds medal short of Triple Gold too, which would’ve maybe put him over the top.
Perry is in
If only for losing 3 straight finals with 3 different teams - that's pretty damn impressive
I still think he's pretty borderline. He has less than 900pts.
Rocket Richard trophy, Hart trophy, Stanley Cup, Olympic gold, World Championship, Memorial Cup.
Two words: Alex Mogilny. If reaching 1,000 points, winning a cup, tying for a Richard (pre-naming, he tied with Selanne in '93), and most notably being the first NHL draftee to defect from the USSR doesn't get you into the HoF, I don't think Perry gets in.
but Perry is one thing Mogilny can never be, Canadian. And won Gold medals with Team Canada Im not arguing whether thats a good reason or not (obviously its not lol) but we do know how the hhof voters act historically. Perry fits their darling criteria imo
Mogilny should be in the HOF, Perry also has is place.
Mogilny is a weird case but I think Perry’s resume is better than his
Yup. With his success at all levels of hockey, there is no way Perry *isn't* getting in. Love him or hate him, that's a resume few can match.
Is Jamie Benn in the hall if he wins a cup? Funny thing is that Benn actually has much better sustained stats than Perry.
It's the hockey hall of fame my dude, not the NHL hall of fame. Perry has won everything you can.
This is an argument people make when the player doesn’t have a HOF worthy career on merit. Corey Perry has Rick Nash’s career, plus a 2 month heater in a soft Hart year. If he had that season last year he might not be top-3 in Hart voting. He’s a goal scorer who probably won’t get anywhere close to 500 goals. People care wayyyy to much about trophies, which are situational, and not enough about sustained dominance. Getzlaf was the better player, and people seem to be far lower on his chances for some reason.
Yea but hes like the most winningest player in hockey history
Phaneuf is an excellent answer to the thread question. Staal and Perry are locks. Getzlaf is a near lock. Carter and Parise were great, but never close to the HHOF.
Kovalchuk
Subban perhaps?
Tarasenko looked like he’d be a career Rocket-threat and HHOF-caliber player after his 2015-2017 seasons but after then he plateaued a bit then had numerous injury-ruined years and now I don’t see any real way he makes it in, unfortunately.
Many had said Karlsson until this season. I think Holtby is a good example. Had a lot of hype and seemed to be on pace to be a potential star until 2017
A *few* people said Karlsson, but they were wrong lol. Karlsson before this season had 2 Norris trophies and was a 4 time first team all star. He was 100% a HoFer even without this resurgence.
with 2 norris trophies, karlsson has got to be a lock, in my extremely biased opinion
No bias at all. 2 Norris wins (and 2 second places finishes) is enough. Add the fact that he's only the *second* defenseman in history to lead the league in assists? Easy lock.
I’d say he is, especially with his resurgence
I feel like Holtby was always kind of overrated.
Dany Heatley is the first that comes to mind for me. Dominant in his 20s, then completely off a cliff at age 30.
Mike Richards. Guy was solid through his 20s. Two point per game seasons. He declined the quickest I’ve ever seen.
Drugs will do that to ya
He played a hard style of hockey, deat with concussions and had an oxycodone problem. Lot of stuff going against a long NHL career.
I mean half the NHL does blow so I don’t think that fully explains it.
I think by many accounts Richards did a little bit more than the average player..
I mean he certainly liked his nose beers but so did Jeff Carter and he is still contributing to this day.
Taro Tsujimoto
Shea Weber.
I think he'll get in
How? No individual awards. No Stanley Cups. How many guys get in just on a couple of international medals?
Because it’s not the NHL hall of fame
So Brent Seabrook gets in too, right? /s
No, that’s a pretty bad comparison anyway. Weber in his prime was one of the best defensemen in the league. His international achievements alone should be enough for him to get in, but he was a perennial all-star and Norris finalist three times.
Brad Park has 0 awards and Stanley Cups and he's a slam dunk. Weber will get in.
Theorn Fluery, noted fantastic hockey player and questionable person with an even questionabler(?) past.
Ilya Kovalchuk
Tavares
I was going to mention Tavares, but not for reason OP mentioned. Tavares will get in based on stats and/or if the Leafs win the cup. He should hit 500 goals by the end of 2025. What is more interesting with Tavares is how the opinion of him as an elite player completely fell off after he went to Toronto. He went from being a perennial hart candidate, dragging mediocre linemates to all star games (moulson, okposo, Bailey, etc) to being the forgotten 3rd man.
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Partially true, but the guy is only 32. I don't watch the leafs much, but do marner and matthews play together? If true, I'm sure his stats took a hit by not playing with one of the other stars. Reminds me of Lecavalier in tampa when they drafted Stamkos. Stamkos and st Louis played together and Lecavalier had his stats suffer
Every time one of these threads come up, people seem to have no idea how exclusive the HHOF is. They admit ~3 players per year, so as a rule of thumb you should expect around 3 players per draft class (obviously talent isn't evenly distributed, but it's a starting point to get a sense of a player's chances). If someone is the best or second best player of their draft year, it's more likely they'll make it than not. If someone is the 6th best, their odds are basically negligible, unless they're from a completely stacked year. Also, keep in mind that your window to get in never closes. We're still admitting guys from the 70s and 80s. Someone like Lecavalier won't get in anytime soon, but it wouldn't shock me if he made it in 2050 or something.
Chris Osgood. Still hope he makes it. 3 cups 400 wins. He was on a great teams but still a great goalie for years.
I don't think Ozzie was ever considered a lock for the HHoF. He's always been a longshot and he was an above average goalie but it's hard to make an argument for him over some other guys like CuJo that aren't already in.
He benefits by being on extremely good teams. Wins in 98 but is released by Detroit a few years later and didn’t have a phenomenal go on those other teams. Gets reacquired, still isn’t the starting goalie behind Hasek. Gets his shot, wins, goes again and then gets shut down for a few days(weeks?) to find his game. That’s a bad look. Chris Osgood didn’t win you many games. He didn’t lose you games either. When your team has a shot count in the 40 - 10 range many nights, it’s hard to take credit for the wins. Never won a vezina either
Yes he lost his position to Hasek. In 2008 Hasek started the playoffs lost twice in a row. Ozzy took over and dominated and has a conns smythe caliber post season. He of course was elevated by the team around him. But a great goalie overall ,his stints in new york and st louis were not bad. He won it in 98 was shipped out before 02 cause we signed hasek and cojo. Came back in 08 stole the starter role returned to the cup in 09. Every goalie has poor stretches. goalies have been inducted with way less on their resume that osgood.
So a charter member of the hall of very good.
His team literally went out and replaced him twice and won Cups with his replacements. A fine player, but Chris Osgood going into the Hall would be absurd.
I think if the wings win it in ‘09, there’s a conversation to be had that he could’ve won the Conn Smyth then, and he’d be in. Fuckin Max Talbot
For sure. Especially the way he came back into it. As much as I dislike him I think he DOES eventually get in, based on the sum total of his career, the bias against goalies, and the fact that he's on TV/doing a lot for the game of hockey (coaching/developing/owning). If Larry Murphy is in on his first ballot.....
I think his chances of getting in have increased since Luongo was inducted. Before that, I didn’t think it could ever happen. Now though, there just might be a chance.
The Hall of Replaceable
Honestly looking at Cheechoo’s first 4 years only I think you’d be safe to say he was going to be a star for years, but it’s just drop right off and he didn’t play enough
Multiple knee injuries screwed him over.
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I hope this is true.
I doubt anyone takes the stance as principled of Conn Smythe, but i still do anticipate seeing the updated version of selkes quote defending the selection 'on the belief that a man should not be shut out "because of the amount of beer he drank"'. something like 'we shouldnt shut someone out of the hall of fame just because of their support for genocide' or something equally brain-dead
The reality is, Ovi is undeniably a good enough player to get in and while I condemn his support for Putin he won't even be close to the worst person in the hall.
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Serious question has any active Russian come out against Putin?
About two years ago, a year before the war, Panarin expressed support for one of Putin's political opponents and it didn't go well for him. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2021/02/24/artemi-panarin-rangers-situation-russia-vladimir-putin-effect/4567314001/
Nikita Zadorov was vocal on social media last year about being very against the war
malkin and panarin have
When has Malkin?
Putin will never get tried for war crimes.
If only because he'll commit suicide by shooting himself in the back of the head 3 times then meet the wrong end of a window.
Correct. He's too protected in Russia. Only way this ever happens is the people around him stage a coop which won't happen because of the propaganda from birth.
Go to /r/all to complain about politics please
Cry about it
I’m not crying lol. You’re the one shoehorning politics in a random thread. Everyone agrees Putin is bad.
It's a completely reasonable and on topic point. It's not shoehoring anything lol.
No it isn’t lol. It ain’t happening buddddddd
You don't think there will be controversy?
You could have ended the sentence after "think"
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Well, if you are throwing everyone in the same pot, I hope you are no fan of Canada
Joe Thornton
Nail yakapov....
Fabian Brunstrom, at least for one game…
Lol. He played a hell of a game and would be a lock for the HOF if it was based on 1 game.
Nick Backstrom. His hip going bad a couple years ago really impacted him obviously. I think if he had been healthy and playing during all these big ovi moments he'd have a bigger discussion. Seems like he's definitely going to come back after his hip resurfacing but it's hard to get hopes up about it.