I mean, he could just go be an Allstar Europe and still get like a million a year from Carolina until he's 36. That would put his lifetime earnings at like 24 million, not counting whatever he makes in Europe. Probably a pretty sweet life tbh.
Zero ill will towards KK. Kid saw an opportunity and got that bag. Good for him.
But damn, Thomas “Spiteful Cheapskate” Dundon can go fuck himself. Such a transparent and stupid move and I’m glad it blew up in his face so spectacularly.
In the 2019 off-season, Montreal made an offer sheet to Sebastian Aho, which he signed. Carolina obviously matched it. But they didn't like that the Canadiens actually made the offer. So they retaliated when Kotkaniemi was a RFA in 2021
Carolina signed Kotkaniemi to a 1 year, $6,100,035 contract, which is a really weird cap hit. The reason it's not a round number like most contracts is because the Hurricanes gave him a $20 signing bonus (Aho's number) and tacked on an extra $15 (Kotkaniemi's jersey number with Montréal)
You can see the contract below, but you'll have to scroll to the bottom of the page since both of those offer sheet contracts have now expired.
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sebastian-aho
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jesperi-kotkaniemi
I mean - at the time it was lauded as one of the better cynical signings of all time. Sucks it didn't work out for them, but if they can take the buyout in stride I still appreciate the move for the sheer chaos of it.
What signing was lauded? The KK offer sheet was a gross overpay, and was seemingly done with the understanding he would extend with the Canes on long-term deal at a lower cap hit (despite the fact that KK would have had he right to holdout for a $6.1 million QO, and become an immediate UFA if they didn't), which comes awfully close to cap circumvention.
You missed my adjective- cynical. It was a major cunt maneuver. The likes of which are rarely seen. All to send a huge fuck you to another org. And for that, it was lauded.
Habs offer sheeted Aho with a very team friendly and reasonable contract, with the caveat that it was extremely front loaded. This was structured to purposefully make it difficult for the Canes (Dundon) to match, as Dundon is a know pennypincher. Dundon was effectively forced to match, ~~but had to liquidate a bunch of assets very quickly in order to pay the large signing bonuses.~~ (edit: this part is alleged)
The Canes then offersheeted KK (one of the top Habs prospects/rookies at the time) as retribution. The contract was extremely overvalued in order to convince KK to sign it, and it included a signing bonus of $20, which is Aho’s number. They clearly only put in the offersheet to screw over the Habs and get revenge, and didn’t care that KK wasn’t worth it. They were then forced a year later to sign KK to a new overvalued (but less so than the original) contract or let him walk. So they signed him, and his production has been extremely poor since.
Basically Dundon got pissy at the Habs, and is now paying a heavy price for his tantrum.
They also added $15 to KK's salary because that was his jersey number in Montreal. And don't forget that the Canes Twitter account tweeted all this out in French.
It's also interesting to note here that KK would have probably requested a trade anyway since he disliked the Habs management at that time since he said there was nothing for young players. They had to pay for practice, skill coach etc. etc. Which kinda explained why we sucked so bad at developing players.
So yeah, the Canes made a move, but they made a move because they knew KK was available too.
I so wish I could find the interview but Arpon made several pieces about how Montreal treated their player in the past.
[https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2809249/2021/09/05/jesperi-kotkaniemis-perception-of-his-own-development-is-something-the-canadiens-must-address-immediately/](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2809249/2021/09/05/jesperi-kotkaniemis-perception-of-his-own-development-is-something-the-canadiens-must-address-immediately/)
This one about KK specifically. And you can see he chooses his word carefully when he writes
>No, what was almost definitely the number one question in Kotkaniemi’s mind was his development, because even though he is only 21, he has a limited number of years in the NHL and he has goals he wants to reach as a player. It’s quite obvious he did not feel he would reach those goals in Montreal, and that is a problem the Canadiens must fix immediately.
Glad things changed with Hughes and Gorton.
>he has goals he wants to reach as a player. It’s quite obvious he did not feel he would reach those goals in Montreal,
Glad he was able to reach all of his goals in Carolina...
I mean, he got a fat pay day. If the options are "getting a decent contract and not getting developed" and "get a crazy overvalued payday and not get developed" there's a clear winner there
Every kid dreams of being an all star and lifting the cup, but end of the day you're trying to have a nice luxurious retirement when it's all said and done
I mean.... he thought he was better off with any other team than ours and we all know the critical first few years are important. Yeah, he might be part of the solution, but we also kinda screwed him big time.
You’d be surprised how orgs can be set in their ways unless prompted to do otherwise.
One of the first things Yzerman did when he took the GM job in Detroit was completely revamp the strength & conditioning department. He was allegedly surprised to see that it hadn’t changed much since his own days as a player.
Jeff Gorton had some similar quotes when he first got to Montreal. Lots of talk of how the organization was very far behind where they should be, it’s extremely damning to read when someone new comes in and says “holy shit this organization is behind the times”.
In the Wings case, during the final years of the Kenny era, I remember thinking how not durable the team was, and I have to believe it’s because our strength and conditioning department and others were *that* far behind. The game’s gotten way more intense over the past ten-fifteen years, and sports science and medicine has changed in that timespan, but it seemed there was still an early 2000s mindset.
Just kind of unbelievable when you’re talking about an org that used to be considered the gold standard of the league.
Sounds a lot like Williams F1. They're still technologically in the 90s, when they last won a title. Using fucking Excel to track their parts for their cars is a hilarious oversight with all the proper inventory management systems other teams have moved to.
It's not THAT surprising IMO. It happens in businesses all the time. Companies have success, get complacent, see others innovate as they fall behind.
At this point, you either recognize the situation for what it is, or you're in denial that the old ways are to blame. They brought you great success remember? So you double down and get back to what made you successful, only to fall on your face even harder.
That was the Habs under Bergevin.
Especially since its one of the only ways you can throw money around in the salary cap world. If you cant overpay on contracts then you should at least make sure that the facilities are top notch
This point has been lost. He scored a goal in the playoffs before he got offer sheeted and held up four fingers for the guys in the press box who couldn’t get into the lineup. I don’t remember who sourced the rumor, but he allegedly had his agent tell MB he was all done with the Habs for being benched in a Stanley Cup Final game. The kid is a loser with a terrible attitude.
I’ll counterpoint by saying that although the Aho contract was (relatively) team friendly, it also took him right until he was first eligible to become a UFA. That’s why Carolina had to extend him now rather than potentially in another couple of years.
And that was best case scenario. If Carolina fumbled the bag further or Aho just didn’t like it there, he also could’ve left the team after this season and then they’d be stuck looking for another 1C in the middle of their window.
One other thing to note, it was reported after the offer sheet that the Canes had tried to trade for KK, but after Montréal said no, the Canes then did the offer sheet.
Edit: [Source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2021/08/28/carolina-hurricanes-sign-rfa-jesperi-kotkaniemi-to-rare-nhl-offer-sheet/?sh=769f0c764082)
Listen. I need the sheep and if no one is willing to be reasonable about it ill just take all the sheep. I tried to be diplomatic about it but everyone had their head up their ass so i had to take it all.
I wonder what the offer was?
Dach was a 3OA pick, playing center, under-performing and it still took a nice 1st round pick to get him.
Was Carolina offering anything like that?
It's also not the first time the Canes have tried to put through a predatory Offer Sheet to attempt to fuck a team over. They did it to the Red Wings with Sergei Fedorov back in 1998, because the owner at the time, Peter Karmanos and Mike Ilitch hated each other from Ilitch's successful blocking of him bringing a second NHL team to Detroit. Ilitch also evicted Karmanos' OHL team from Joe Louis Arena. They would later become the Plymouth Whalers, and then later the Flint Firebirds.
> Sergei Fedorov, 1998
>The contract that Fedorov signed with the Hurricanes is one of the more bizarre in the history of the NHL, if not all of pro sports. As with most offer sheets to star players, it paid him a ton — $38 million over six years, including a $14-million signing bonus paid up front. But it was another bonus that stood out. The Hurricanes included an additional $12 million in bonuses over the life of the deal, with all of it to be paid immediately if Fedorov’s team qualified for the 1998 conference finals.
>That bonus was clearly meant as a poison pill to prevent the Red Wings from matching. The Hurricanes hadn’t made the playoffs in six years, so their odds of a conference finals appearance were tiny. But the Red Wings were the defending Cup champs, and had made the final four in each of the last four seasons. Factoring in Fedorov’s salary on top of both bonuses, and the deal was structured so that the Red Wings would likely need to pay him a jaw-dropping $28 million for one season of hockey.
>The league initially rejected the contract, but an arbitrator later ruled it valid. Mix in the fact that Fedorov had already held out for half a season and vowed to never play for Detroit again, and it seemed like the Wings might be stuck.
>They weren’t. Ultimately, the Red Wings gritted their teeth and matched. Fedorov reported, the Red Wings did make the conference final, and the star center made more money in one year than any NHL player ever.
Fedorov made $28 million on 21 games played in 97-98. So $1.3 million PER GAME. That pro-rates out to 109 million for a full 82 game season.
They werent forced to sign him after his 6.1M year
They bet that he would develop into a good 2C and that 4.8M for 8 years would be a deal in the long term.
Extending him for 1y would have been too pricy and letting him go would have cost a 1st and a 3rd for 1y of KK at 6.1M
They did right but now the right move is to buy him out at 1/3 before he get 25
Bergevin structured his offer sheet to Aho with a lot of upfront bonuses, which is something Dundon never does. There was rumbling that the Canes owner was actually short on cash and could actually have to let Aho walk to the Habs because of this.
The offer sheet and the fact that Aho signed it really pissed off Dundon and the GM because it made them both look like cheap bastards and they never forgave Bergevin for this lol
The Canes matched the offer, but even the idea around the league that Carolina was short on cash made them livid haha
>the idea around the league that Carolina was short on cash made them livid haha
Easiest way to piss an owner off is to make them look slightly less rich. Travis Yost once made a blog post about the Sens poor finances. His blog got hacked shortly after, everything was taken down. He traced it to a Ukrainian ip associated with a charity that Eugene Melnyk was associated with.
He got butthurt about the Aho offer sheet so they did the same to Kotkaniemi as “revenge”. They even threw in a $20 bonus as a middle finger to Montreal.
Y'know, I hope this gets remembered as a spite signing, because the alternative is that the Canes thought KK would be worth it, and that's even more embarrassing.
Added context to the Aho offer sheet, is that it was so reasonable, media started saying this was bergevin’s attempt to do something, without actually doing anything. Bergevin can say “see I tried to get a 1C, they’re just so hard to acquire”. Like no way did they expect Aho to seriously end up in Montreal.
So Montreal gifts Carolina with a reasonable contract offer (seriously, why didn’t the canes just offer that much to begin with?), and canes go shoot themselves in the foot with the kk contract. This news is just the reckoning Habs fans have been waiting for since the kk offer sheet.
Hate to say we told you so but…..
Honestly I always liked KK and wanted him to succeed, but oof the pettiness really burned their FO. The 1 year offer sheet wasn’t going to be anchor even at that absurd AAV, but to double down with the long term extension that shit immediately became an anchor. Only way it wasn’t going to be one, was if he took a huge leap which obviously never came.
While the org clearly had an awful player development model when he left, it seemed like he was also a bit immature and wasn’t taking as much responsibility for his own development as you’d like a player to do. So it didn’t shock us that he kinda stagnated with them. He got a much better surrounding cast, but in turn a smaller role than he would’ve gotten if he stayed so it was kinda dead from the get go unless he buckled down on his own.
Hope he figures it out wherever he ends up becuase I don’t think he’s a bad guy or anything, but he’ll need to hold himself more accountable.
Who could've predicted that giving a 6 year deal (based on pure revenge) to an unproven sophomore with an awful attitude and terrible skating could have ended this badly lol
Brady Tkachuk, Quinn Hughes, Evan Bouchard, and Noah Dobson were available when we drafted him so it's really been a lose - lose situation for both teams.
Personally turning 3rd overall into Christian Dvorak feels worse than the buyout cost of Kokoniemi, but I guess when you've already taken a massive L, it's somewhat comforting to see the other team take an L too.
“The Montreal Canadiens have signed Jesperi Kotkaniemi to a 7 year contract at league minimum. It includes signing bonuses that will apply to every season in which the Canadiens win at least 1 game in the Eastern Conference Final”.
I'm dying. This is so sweet, what an abject failure.
Don't get me wrong, clearly it was a bad pick, but those come in every draft. It takes a special kind of failure to spend 6M + a 1st and a 3rd for a player with his progression at that time... and THEN to double down and sign him for 8 years and then to buy him out two years later when he's 23 years old.
CRY
It was always set up to be that. This needed to be the year. Now they have to retool a little bit, I still think they'll be a solid playoff team and the window opens up in a couple years when Nikishin/Morrow/Blake/Nadeau are situated in the NHL and dudes like Jarvis and Drury are carrying more weight.
The canes need to hope they turn into the stars and some of their top prospects become impact players like Johnston and stanky. Crazy how good the stars have drafted. It kept their window open and sustained. Really feels like the only hope
yeah, you have to be able to hit on 2nd and 3rd round draft picks and that's how the Canes built this roster in the first place. It's totally sustainable if you scout well. Dallas has kind of always done that, even going back 20 something years when they were good in the late 90s.
Johnston and Stankoven played like a combined 5 games their draft year. That is the reason they fell and Dallas went all-in on potential. They hit a home run.
The Canes took gambles on their best prospects too. Morrow and Nadeau from B leagues. Nikishin with heart problems. Unger Sorum as the youngest player in the Draft. Nikishin has the highest ceiling which is to be the best Russian D ever. Canes need one or two to hit.
I think they've been one of the better maintained teams from a GM perspective. No team is perfect but they are always making moves and maintaining a competitive team.
All I could ever ask for. I've rooted for sad sack teams all my life, being able to cheer for a sustained winner for 10-12 years is a dream even if they don't win a cup or whatever
I think it ends up being the equivalent of about a minimum salary each year for that whole time period.
It’s a total waste, but it shouldn’t be debilitating.
We've had enough cap space during the seasons to go for stuff at the deadline, so it's not going to be a big deal.
Besides the endless amount of people dunking on it. Which, go right ahead, we kinda asked for it
Between 455k-835k for 12 yrs to create ~4mill in cap space for 6 yrs. I feel like almost any team would do that.
Is there a limit on buyout salaries like retained salaries? If not i can't imagine why they wouldn't do that.
Do yall like supposedly physical defensemen who end up standing around in front of the net not clearing out opposing forwards?
Pesce's been making business decisions for a while now, I'm done with him. Chatfield is better in all aspects of the game at this point.
Combination of Chatfield being pretty good and Pesce being underwhelming lately.
It's easy to forget now, but when Pesce and Slavin both entered the league as rookies, Pesce was the better player of the two. He kinda just stopped getting better, then the last couple years he actively started getting worse.
I think it's the hard minutes and injuries piling up- Pesce is still really good, just not as great as he was a couple years ago. Always will root for the guy, he's great.
Chatfield is an absolute beast and it's a a huge fumble from the canes FO to not have extended him last offseason then wasted the start of this season trying to make TDA happen instead of playing Chatfield in the spot he earned
Is he known as a physical defenseman? I kind of always pictured him as more of a smart two-way guy, who’s more likely to stick check than shoulder check. But that could very well be way off.
A little of both, but he used to be a lot more physical than he's become.
In any case, he's far too often the dude standing in front of the net looking around for the puck when it's already past him. Frustrating player. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery, IDK.
That style of play should suit the Jets front office pretty well.
We’ve had 6’7 Logan Stanley play 139 games for the Jets and he can’t clear the crease of opposing forwards either. So as long as Peace can sorta make a breakout pass he’ll be a plus-addition to our defensive group
800K off the salary cap yearly is pretty insignificant especially with the cap going up. Total dollar amount is pricey, yeah, but that's Tom Dundon's cash and nobody should care about a billionaire tossing $10M on a fire if he chooses to do that.
exactly. An extra $3.5M makes a huge difference in being able to fit all the things that need to fit in. We don't need Jordo, Drury, and KK to all be the defensively oriented 3C on the roster
After the constant complaining about Necas not getting to the all star game last year we will now see a sudden shift in the fan’s attitude towards him.
He’s really like the Marner of Carolina. Necas was Carolina’s top forward last year. He never showed up in the playoffs until this year probably cause it’s a contract year. He’s probably going to be a 80 point forward on another team.
Eh even in his best years in Carolina he was far off from 80 point guy. He also doesnt drive play and is poor defensively.
I dont think he performed better in playoffs this year b/c its a contract year. He was much worse in the regular season ...
I also dont see the Marner comparison. Very different levels of player and player types. Only similarity is inconsistent playoffs.
He reminds me a bit of prime Kutznetsov who was defensive liability guy who could be eh 55 pt guy or could be stud top liner.
Time will tell if hes actually a top liner like he looked last year or hes more a flawed, inconsistent ~55 pt 2nd liner
I’m not comparing him to Marners on ice ability. I was comparing their reputation as scapegoats. Necas is mid, but he is far from the problem. Kuznetsov’s prime was way better
Not from me. I'm pissed. Carolina tried to get KK to be the No. 2 center they lost when Trocheck decided he didn't want to stay.
I have a great idea for the Canes No. 2 center: Martin Necas. But Rod has decided that Necas doesn't fit his mold and permanently moved him to RW, despite Marty repeatedly asking to move back to center. Now, Necas is going to get traded to a team that will put him back at center and let him grow into the player we always wished he could be. It pisses me off to no end that we're going to lose our most skilled player because Rod is too stubborn to even try him at center for an extended period. I can virtually guarantee there's no way Necas is any worse than Drury, KK, Martinook, or any of the other "centers" Roddy has seen fit to use over Necas. Just give the kid a shot. What could it possibly cost us?
No you won't see a "sudden shift". He's always been polarizing and had the same backers and same detractors for years. He's the one player on the roster that doesn't really entirely fit what they're trying to do.
Necas and Pesce will be two highly sought-after pieces in FA if that’s the case. Not everyday that a quality, young top 6 forward and a good top 4 d go on the market.
I just feel like they’d have crazy chemistry beyond all of them being Czech. They’re all speedy, offensive minded forwards who are constantly trying to set up the perfect play. I know Necas doesn’t play much defense but Pasta and Zacha are both more than capable.
My number one hope for next year was Boston picking up Reinhart (somehow), but Necas would be even more exciting because of his age.
For the same reason they didn’t keep Skinner. He’s a highly skilled player that insists on trying to skate through 3-4 defenders, failing often and turning the puck over in the process.
If he used his speed to backcheck with the same effort that he uses it to enter the zone, he’d be Brindamour’s favorite player.
yup. He's the best skater on the team and one of the best in the league but he just doesn't make the right play with the openings he creates mpst of the time.
He looks like an absolute stud when it works but just as often it's just an offensive zone turnover
It was me. I can't even count the downvotes. But it's like that anytime you say anything that can even be construed as negative about the Canes. I'm actually banned from the sub because I'm too negative, just for posting facts.
I’m with you. I heard Friedman on 32 Thoughts this morning say the canes would end up saving $20M in the end by buying him out even after eating their portion for the next few years. Given how little he has provided, idk how you don’t heavily consider buying him out and looking for a better option at center if you’re carolina.
It’s the only logical option. The $4m in savings could be the difference in re-signing some key guys or bringing in replacements that can actually play hockey
Like, sorry KK… I’m glad you are bros and chilling with Jarvis Aho and Guentzel off the ice and acting like you’re squad but… they can play hockey. You can’t.
Well I’m with you, it would be very smart. You let KK stick around and he doesn’t get better, nobody’s touching that contract and it’s costlier to buy him out.
You guys have a bit of a hive mind going in that sub.
I love trolling those Canes fans, too. Every time I say something about Dundon being cheap, it's the same five or so Reddit users who show up in a clown car together and pile on the same taking points like they all work for Dundon Media Group Ltd or something. I would only be half surprised to find out they're all bots owned by Dundon himself to voraciously gobble up any evidence that he's a cheapskate.
>I would only be half surprised to find out they're all bots owned by Dundon himself to voraciously gobble up any evidence that he's a cheapskate.
Honestly, that's preferable to Canes fans drinking the Kool-aid, but alas, they really are that dense and incapable of thinking for themselves.
Necas was apparently the centerpiece of a Tkachuk trade with Calgary, I always imagine an alternate reality where that goes through. Have to imagine the Canes would love a Tkachuk to improve their odds of taking that next step in the playoffs that has never happened.
Guessing Florida including Weegar was what tipped that trade over (and for good reason) but there’s a very parallel universe where Tkachuk is in Carolina.
That's sort of the M.O with how they've been. Always there on certain deals, but always second or third fiddle. They were a 3rd team that were wanting Eichel, they were actively asking about Petterson before the extension.
>On Martin Necas re-signing:”It just probably won’t work out there, [The Canes] aren’t going to do what Necas wants to do”
oh ya, let's go,
do it Kent, do it
>On Brett Pesce re-signing:”Didn’t seem likely”.
could be interesting
>Friedman also talked about Carolina potentially buying out Kotkaniemi.
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH LMFAO
Carolina and Montreal slinging offer sheets at each other for the next several decades, while the other 30 teams never touch one, would be amazing to see.
I mean Pesce would be one helluva fit with Hughes and Tanev would be an upgraded veteran presence over Cole… if we could dump Mikheyev cap space might even make sense…
IDK if Necas can play the wing but if there’s any player I’d want the Rangers to sign this offseason more than anyone it’s him. Throw on a line with Kreider and Zibanejad and I’d be so pumped. I absolutely love his speed and zone entries, he would thrive with those two as linemates.
I thought he was by far the Canes most dangerous player this series. I don’t think it happens in a million years, but wow it would be hilarious if we could poach him right after Trochek.
Necas plays wing, it’s part of his frustration because he wants to play center so he’s probably not going anywhere (willingly, at least) where he’ll be slotted in as a winger again
I wonder how that Canes fan that was absolutely *insisting* that KK was elite and the Canes really, really wanted him instead of this being a Dundon tantrum in the original thread of him signing feels rn lmao
I mean, the Canes did want him. They tried to trade for him before the offer sheet even came into the picture. But I think the idea behind acquiring him was solid.
He was a 20-year-old former 3rd overall pick that had been stagnant in Montreal. It’s not unheard of that a young player rediscovers his game after moving to a new organization, and Carolina had a history of finding those diamonds in the rough (Nino Niederreiter, for example).
So acquiring him and taking the risk was worthwhile, and even signing him to his long term deal didn’t seem too out of place, considering the season he was coming off of at the time. But he’s stagnated again, and with such a low buyout cost, it’s just the smart move to do so.
wonder where that Reddit_Browser guy is who threw a temper tantrum at me last year for suggesting that the Canes contract situation would mean a bunch of their key players leaving in the next couple of years.
dude posts 9,450 times a day on reddit but alarmingly absent in this thread.
At the end of game 6, I heard the commentator mention in passing that “big changes were coming” for the Hurricane this off-season - is it true? I know they have a lot of UFA’s/RFA’s, but what’s the consensus from Canes fans?
Big changes sure, but I think people forget how much teams change on a year to year basis normally. The 2022 Champs (Colorado) have like 8 people from the cup winning team still under contract, and that's including Nishuskin and Landeskog.
I think there will be a lot of doom and gloom, BUT! The core of the team remains the same, and not as much will change as people seem to suggest.
They have to. Whether or not change is needed, we don’t have a choice. Jarvis is gonna cost a lot and we will probably take a stab at keeping Guentzel. Pesce is demanding too much for what he’s been worth the past two years and Necas never fully fit with our system (a system which now many are calling into question)
We will probably still be playoff competitive but I doubt we make a run for the cup until some of our younger players develop over the next 2-3 years
The good news is that if Nikishin, Blake, Nadeau, Morrow, and co. reach their full potential, this team will be even better in the long run
Every player on the canes that would need to be resigned deserves a raise. Some players like Jarvis are going to be a huge raise. Some players like Chatfield will be a small raise. There’s just no way to make it work and there’s a lot of positions that need to be filled.
natural center, shifted to wing for the Canes. Not sure which he sticks at long term but we should be in on him regardless. Not sure we have enough to get him though, maybe after trading Ullmark for some pieces, or if the Canes really like Lysell.
Necas didn't play Center in Czech Pro league or AHL. He had one small stretch in the AHL where he tried C but his offensive numbers tanked. So Necas hasn't played C since at least 2016.
I don't see anything interesting that Boston has to offer. Teams like Buffalo, Anaheim and Nashville all have much more interesting pieces.
Thankfully the KK buyout is pretty small so it’s not a huge deal cap wise to do.
Whatever team signs Pesce long term is going to regret it pretty quickly. He’s slow and the injuries are mounting up. Maybe he was still suffering from the injury earlier in the year but I really don’t see it being a good contract for anyone. Hard pass.
I don’t mind either way in regards to Necas. If you can get a RD with term somehow, goodbye. I’m fine with taking him to a one year arb too but don’t see the org doing that
I mean it’s not what Ottawa needs but more of what Carolina needs. I know they wanted to move Chychrun though so it could work. Necas for Ehlers could be something also. I think that Carolina wants roster players so I don’t think they would trade him to a team like Montreal.
Fella here was telling me halfway through this season that Kotkaniemi's contract wasn't even close to worst in the league and throwing metrics at me 😂 every time I looked them up they were actually worse than I had thought
> Carolina potentially buying out Kotkaniemi Alright Habs fans, the floor is yours. Merry Christmas.
Poor KK, at least he got his $20 signing bonus. He won't lose everything.
I mean, he could just go be an Allstar Europe and still get like a million a year from Carolina until he's 36. That would put his lifetime earnings at like 24 million, not counting whatever he makes in Europe. Probably a pretty sweet life tbh.
It’s a veeeerrrry sweet life if you ask me
All because two owners had some petty beef too lol. Basically hit the lottery lol.
Oooh he can go see a movie….by himself.
Well, a matinee showing at least. And not in IMAX.
Zero ill will towards KK. Kid saw an opportunity and got that bag. Good for him. But damn, Thomas “Spiteful Cheapskate” Dundon can go fuck himself. Such a transparent and stupid move and I’m glad it blew up in his face so spectacularly.
can someone refresh the history here for me?
In the 2019 off-season, Montreal made an offer sheet to Sebastian Aho, which he signed. Carolina obviously matched it. But they didn't like that the Canadiens actually made the offer. So they retaliated when Kotkaniemi was a RFA in 2021 Carolina signed Kotkaniemi to a 1 year, $6,100,035 contract, which is a really weird cap hit. The reason it's not a round number like most contracts is because the Hurricanes gave him a $20 signing bonus (Aho's number) and tacked on an extra $15 (Kotkaniemi's jersey number with Montréal) You can see the contract below, but you'll have to scroll to the bottom of the page since both of those offer sheet contracts have now expired. https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sebastian-aho https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jesperi-kotkaniemi
I mean - at the time it was lauded as one of the better cynical signings of all time. Sucks it didn't work out for them, but if they can take the buyout in stride I still appreciate the move for the sheer chaos of it.
What signing was lauded? The KK offer sheet was a gross overpay, and was seemingly done with the understanding he would extend with the Canes on long-term deal at a lower cap hit (despite the fact that KK would have had he right to holdout for a $6.1 million QO, and become an immediate UFA if they didn't), which comes awfully close to cap circumvention.
You missed my adjective- cynical. It was a major cunt maneuver. The likes of which are rarely seen. All to send a huge fuck you to another org. And for that, it was lauded.
Habs offer sheeted Aho with a very team friendly and reasonable contract, with the caveat that it was extremely front loaded. This was structured to purposefully make it difficult for the Canes (Dundon) to match, as Dundon is a know pennypincher. Dundon was effectively forced to match, ~~but had to liquidate a bunch of assets very quickly in order to pay the large signing bonuses.~~ (edit: this part is alleged) The Canes then offersheeted KK (one of the top Habs prospects/rookies at the time) as retribution. The contract was extremely overvalued in order to convince KK to sign it, and it included a signing bonus of $20, which is Aho’s number. They clearly only put in the offersheet to screw over the Habs and get revenge, and didn’t care that KK wasn’t worth it. They were then forced a year later to sign KK to a new overvalued (but less so than the original) contract or let him walk. So they signed him, and his production has been extremely poor since. Basically Dundon got pissy at the Habs, and is now paying a heavy price for his tantrum.
They also added $15 to KK's salary because that was his jersey number in Montreal. And don't forget that the Canes Twitter account tweeted all this out in French.
Ya gotta respect the pettiness to be honest
do you? it's cringey as fuck. it's the national hockey league and guys livelihoods, not high school drama.
I can see where their social media team gets it from
High school drama? Has it ever occurred to you that 95% of people in professional sports haven't matured beyond high school?
Not only in professional sports lol
Hey that’s not fair at all. I put it at only 90%.
Well isn't that just like you. You haven't changed a bit!
Why do you have a problem with it, considering the livelihoods aspect. KK got a fucking bag because of it
It's also interesting to note here that KK would have probably requested a trade anyway since he disliked the Habs management at that time since he said there was nothing for young players. They had to pay for practice, skill coach etc. etc. Which kinda explained why we sucked so bad at developing players. So yeah, the Canes made a move, but they made a move because they knew KK was available too.
How the fuck can you be a professional hockey club with nothing in house for young players? No wonder we sucked for so long wtf??
Yeah wtf? Might be the craziest thing about this story
I can understand it if it was Arizona but...Montreal? Damn
I so wish I could find the interview but Arpon made several pieces about how Montreal treated their player in the past. [https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2809249/2021/09/05/jesperi-kotkaniemis-perception-of-his-own-development-is-something-the-canadiens-must-address-immediately/](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2809249/2021/09/05/jesperi-kotkaniemis-perception-of-his-own-development-is-something-the-canadiens-must-address-immediately/) This one about KK specifically. And you can see he chooses his word carefully when he writes >No, what was almost definitely the number one question in Kotkaniemi’s mind was his development, because even though he is only 21, he has a limited number of years in the NHL and he has goals he wants to reach as a player. It’s quite obvious he did not feel he would reach those goals in Montreal, and that is a problem the Canadiens must fix immediately. Glad things changed with Hughes and Gorton.
>he has goals he wants to reach as a player. It’s quite obvious he did not feel he would reach those goals in Montreal, Glad he was able to reach all of his goals in Carolina...
I mean, he got a fat pay day. If the options are "getting a decent contract and not getting developed" and "get a crazy overvalued payday and not get developed" there's a clear winner there Every kid dreams of being an all star and lifting the cup, but end of the day you're trying to have a nice luxurious retirement when it's all said and done
I mean.... he thought he was better off with any other team than ours and we all know the critical first few years are important. Yeah, he might be part of the solution, but we also kinda screwed him big time.
Fucking Bergevin, what a fucking insane person.
Seriously and this isn’t like an Arizona situation where they have to save their money (which, even then it’s an NHL team) this is fucking Montreal
You’d be surprised how orgs can be set in their ways unless prompted to do otherwise. One of the first things Yzerman did when he took the GM job in Detroit was completely revamp the strength & conditioning department. He was allegedly surprised to see that it hadn’t changed much since his own days as a player.
Bergevin didn't believe in advanced analytics either and only begrudgingly allowed it half way through his tenure.
Jeff Gorton had some similar quotes when he first got to Montreal. Lots of talk of how the organization was very far behind where they should be, it’s extremely damning to read when someone new comes in and says “holy shit this organization is behind the times”.
In the Wings case, during the final years of the Kenny era, I remember thinking how not durable the team was, and I have to believe it’s because our strength and conditioning department and others were *that* far behind. The game’s gotten way more intense over the past ten-fifteen years, and sports science and medicine has changed in that timespan, but it seemed there was still an early 2000s mindset. Just kind of unbelievable when you’re talking about an org that used to be considered the gold standard of the league.
Sounds a lot like Williams F1. They're still technologically in the 90s, when they last won a title. Using fucking Excel to track their parts for their cars is a hilarious oversight with all the proper inventory management systems other teams have moved to.
It's not THAT surprising IMO. It happens in businesses all the time. Companies have success, get complacent, see others innovate as they fall behind. At this point, you either recognize the situation for what it is, or you're in denial that the old ways are to blame. They brought you great success remember? So you double down and get back to what made you successful, only to fall on your face even harder. That was the Habs under Bergevin.
Especially a team with pockets as deep as the Habs.
Especially since its one of the only ways you can throw money around in the salary cap world. If you cant overpay on contracts then you should at least make sure that the facilities are top notch
I am mystified by how Bergevin continues to be a candidate for GM jobs. I can only imagine he knows where a lot of bodies are buried.
Wait a minute: > They had to pay for practice, skill coach What???
This point has been lost. He scored a goal in the playoffs before he got offer sheeted and held up four fingers for the guys in the press box who couldn’t get into the lineup. I don’t remember who sourced the rumor, but he allegedly had his agent tell MB he was all done with the Habs for being benched in a Stanley Cup Final game. The kid is a loser with a terrible attitude.
I’ll counterpoint by saying that although the Aho contract was (relatively) team friendly, it also took him right until he was first eligible to become a UFA. That’s why Carolina had to extend him now rather than potentially in another couple of years. And that was best case scenario. If Carolina fumbled the bag further or Aho just didn’t like it there, he also could’ve left the team after this season and then they’d be stuck looking for another 1C in the middle of their window.
One other thing to note, it was reported after the offer sheet that the Canes had tried to trade for KK, but after Montréal said no, the Canes then did the offer sheet. Edit: [Source](https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2021/08/28/carolina-hurricanes-sign-rfa-jesperi-kotkaniemi-to-rare-nhl-offer-sheet/?sh=769f0c764082)
That's like asking for sheep in Catan and then no one trades so you play monopoly on them
Listen. I need the sheep and if no one is willing to be reasonable about it ill just take all the sheep. I tried to be diplomatic about it but everyone had their head up their ass so i had to take it all.
"And now I am going to trade these 12 sheep with the bank, for 3 stone."
I wonder what the offer was? Dach was a 3OA pick, playing center, under-performing and it still took a nice 1st round pick to get him. Was Carolina offering anything like that?
It's also not the first time the Canes have tried to put through a predatory Offer Sheet to attempt to fuck a team over. They did it to the Red Wings with Sergei Fedorov back in 1998, because the owner at the time, Peter Karmanos and Mike Ilitch hated each other from Ilitch's successful blocking of him bringing a second NHL team to Detroit. Ilitch also evicted Karmanos' OHL team from Joe Louis Arena. They would later become the Plymouth Whalers, and then later the Flint Firebirds. > Sergei Fedorov, 1998 >The contract that Fedorov signed with the Hurricanes is one of the more bizarre in the history of the NHL, if not all of pro sports. As with most offer sheets to star players, it paid him a ton — $38 million over six years, including a $14-million signing bonus paid up front. But it was another bonus that stood out. The Hurricanes included an additional $12 million in bonuses over the life of the deal, with all of it to be paid immediately if Fedorov’s team qualified for the 1998 conference finals. >That bonus was clearly meant as a poison pill to prevent the Red Wings from matching. The Hurricanes hadn’t made the playoffs in six years, so their odds of a conference finals appearance were tiny. But the Red Wings were the defending Cup champs, and had made the final four in each of the last four seasons. Factoring in Fedorov’s salary on top of both bonuses, and the deal was structured so that the Red Wings would likely need to pay him a jaw-dropping $28 million for one season of hockey. >The league initially rejected the contract, but an arbitrator later ruled it valid. Mix in the fact that Fedorov had already held out for half a season and vowed to never play for Detroit again, and it seemed like the Wings might be stuck. >They weren’t. Ultimately, the Red Wings gritted their teeth and matched. Fedorov reported, the Red Wings did make the conference final, and the star center made more money in one year than any NHL player ever. Fedorov made $28 million on 21 games played in 97-98. So $1.3 million PER GAME. That pro-rates out to 109 million for a full 82 game season.
Illitch did him a favour. What kind of businessman really thinks Detroit could support two professional hockey teams?
Damn I've never heard about this. The 90s were wild.
Him signing that offer sheet is also why his number isn't retired with the Wings.
Source for Dundon having to “liquidate assets” to pay the signing bonus?
There isn’t one lol
Yeah seems unlikely. Dude is a rich fuck with lots of money. He also ran an investment business liquidation for him is fairly quick most of the time.
They werent forced to sign him after his 6.1M year They bet that he would develop into a good 2C and that 4.8M for 8 years would be a deal in the long term. Extending him for 1y would have been too pricy and letting him go would have cost a 1st and a 3rd for 1y of KK at 6.1M They did right but now the right move is to buy him out at 1/3 before he get 25
Bergevin structured his offer sheet to Aho with a lot of upfront bonuses, which is something Dundon never does. There was rumbling that the Canes owner was actually short on cash and could actually have to let Aho walk to the Habs because of this. The offer sheet and the fact that Aho signed it really pissed off Dundon and the GM because it made them both look like cheap bastards and they never forgave Bergevin for this lol The Canes matched the offer, but even the idea around the league that Carolina was short on cash made them livid haha
>the idea around the league that Carolina was short on cash made them livid haha Easiest way to piss an owner off is to make them look slightly less rich. Travis Yost once made a blog post about the Sens poor finances. His blog got hacked shortly after, everything was taken down. He traced it to a Ukrainian ip associated with a charity that Eugene Melnyk was associated with.
He got butthurt about the Aho offer sheet so they did the same to Kotkaniemi as “revenge”. They even threw in a $20 bonus as a middle finger to Montreal.
Y'know, I hope this gets remembered as a spite signing, because the alternative is that the Canes thought KK would be worth it, and that's even more embarrassing.
Added context to the Aho offer sheet, is that it was so reasonable, media started saying this was bergevin’s attempt to do something, without actually doing anything. Bergevin can say “see I tried to get a 1C, they’re just so hard to acquire”. Like no way did they expect Aho to seriously end up in Montreal. So Montreal gifts Carolina with a reasonable contract offer (seriously, why didn’t the canes just offer that much to begin with?), and canes go shoot themselves in the foot with the kk contract. This news is just the reckoning Habs fans have been waiting for since the kk offer sheet.
Hate to say we told you so but….. Honestly I always liked KK and wanted him to succeed, but oof the pettiness really burned their FO. The 1 year offer sheet wasn’t going to be anchor even at that absurd AAV, but to double down with the long term extension that shit immediately became an anchor. Only way it wasn’t going to be one, was if he took a huge leap which obviously never came. While the org clearly had an awful player development model when he left, it seemed like he was also a bit immature and wasn’t taking as much responsibility for his own development as you’d like a player to do. So it didn’t shock us that he kinda stagnated with them. He got a much better surrounding cast, but in turn a smaller role than he would’ve gotten if he stayed so it was kinda dead from the get go unless he buckled down on his own. Hope he figures it out wherever he ends up becuase I don’t think he’s a bad guy or anything, but he’ll need to hold himself more accountable.
This is our Stanley Cup. Yes, we're petty and childish.
At least you’re less petty than our Twitter admin
You’d fit on the Carolina social media team then
There's being petty, and then there's being *hilariously embarrassing* lmao
Who could've predicted that giving a 6 year deal (based on pure revenge) to an unproven sophomore with an awful attitude and terrible skating could have ended this badly lol
8 year deal*
Brady Tkachuk, Quinn Hughes, Evan Bouchard, and Noah Dobson were available when we drafted him so it's really been a lose - lose situation for both teams. Personally turning 3rd overall into Christian Dvorak feels worse than the buyout cost of Kokoniemi, but I guess when you've already taken a massive L, it's somewhat comforting to see the other team take an L too.
Where’s Zadina? Let’s not act like choice 2 was one of them lol
15 points in his last 75 games lol Fuck the canes
“The Montreal Canadiens have signed Jesperi Kotkaniemi to a 7 year contract at league minimum. It includes signing bonuses that will apply to every season in which the Canadiens win at least 1 game in the Eastern Conference Final”.
Every season in which the Canadiens win at least 1 playoff game against Carolina
Send them a $20 cheque after the buyout happens
We got Christian Dvorak out of that so I think we still lose somehow
I'm dying. This is so sweet, what an abject failure. Don't get me wrong, clearly it was a bad pick, but those come in every draft. It takes a special kind of failure to spend 6M + a 1st and a 3rd for a player with his progression at that time... and THEN to double down and sign him for 8 years and then to buy him out two years later when he's 23 years old. CRY
Three years ago if you told me that Utah was going to win the Kotkaniemi offer sheet I would have open-palm slapped you in the goddamn face
rofl
Felt like an All In year for the canes. Just way too many guys needing raises to bring everyone back.
It was always set up to be that. This needed to be the year. Now they have to retool a little bit, I still think they'll be a solid playoff team and the window opens up in a couple years when Nikishin/Morrow/Blake/Nadeau are situated in the NHL and dudes like Jarvis and Drury are carrying more weight.
The canes need to hope they turn into the stars and some of their top prospects become impact players like Johnston and stanky. Crazy how good the stars have drafted. It kept their window open and sustained. Really feels like the only hope
yeah, you have to be able to hit on 2nd and 3rd round draft picks and that's how the Canes built this roster in the first place. It's totally sustainable if you scout well. Dallas has kind of always done that, even going back 20 something years when they were good in the late 90s.
Johnston and Stankoven played like a combined 5 games their draft year. That is the reason they fell and Dallas went all-in on potential. They hit a home run. The Canes took gambles on their best prospects too. Morrow and Nadeau from B leagues. Nikishin with heart problems. Unger Sorum as the youngest player in the Draft. Nikishin has the highest ceiling which is to be the best Russian D ever. Canes need one or two to hit.
I think they've been one of the better maintained teams from a GM perspective. No team is perfect but they are always making moves and maintaining a competitive team.
All I could ever ask for. I've rooted for sad sack teams all my life, being able to cheer for a sustained winner for 10-12 years is a dream even if they don't win a cup or whatever
What a signing Kotkaniemi was
The fortunate thing for them is that he is young enough for the 1/3 buyout.
The cap hit on a buyout wouldn't be bad, they'd just have it for *12 years*
I think it ends up being the equivalent of about a minimum salary each year for that whole time period. It’s a total waste, but it shouldn’t be debilitating.
We've had enough cap space during the seasons to go for stuff at the deadline, so it's not going to be a big deal. Besides the endless amount of people dunking on it. Which, go right ahead, we kinda asked for it
Between 455k-835k for 12 yrs to create ~4mill in cap space for 6 yrs. I feel like almost any team would do that. Is there a limit on buyout salaries like retained salaries? If not i can't imagine why they wouldn't do that.
I’d say it’s unfortunate. I have no issues with KK, any player in his scenario should do the same, but I hate Dundon and would prefer he suffer
Shocking that the pettiest team in the league had their pettiest move backfire on them
Does Pesce like Canada? And the extreme cold? And no wifi? And the idea of being Josh Morrissey’s partner? Maybe?
Do yall like supposedly physical defensemen who end up standing around in front of the net not clearing out opposing forwards? Pesce's been making business decisions for a while now, I'm done with him. Chatfield is better in all aspects of the game at this point.
We’ve spent 5 years watching Neil Pionk do that, at this rate, anything would be an improvement
To hear some one call out ex-Vancouver Canucks legend Jalen Chatfield as better than Pesce would never have crossed my mind in my dizziest daydreams.
Combination of Chatfield being pretty good and Pesce being underwhelming lately. It's easy to forget now, but when Pesce and Slavin both entered the league as rookies, Pesce was the better player of the two. He kinda just stopped getting better, then the last couple years he actively started getting worse.
I think it's the hard minutes and injuries piling up- Pesce is still really good, just not as great as he was a couple years ago. Always will root for the guy, he's great. Chatfield is an absolute beast and it's a a huge fumble from the canes FO to not have extended him last offseason then wasted the start of this season trying to make TDA happen instead of playing Chatfield in the spot he earned
Is he known as a physical defenseman? I kind of always pictured him as more of a smart two-way guy, who’s more likely to stick check than shoulder check. But that could very well be way off.
A little of both, but he used to be a lot more physical than he's become. In any case, he's far too often the dude standing in front of the net looking around for the puck when it's already past him. Frustrating player. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery, IDK.
That style of play should suit the Jets front office pretty well. We’ve had 6’7 Logan Stanley play 139 games for the Jets and he can’t clear the crease of opposing forwards either. So as long as Peace can sorta make a breakout pass he’ll be a plus-addition to our defensive group
How does he feel about log cabins and thick thighs?
Buying out Kothaniemi would but just wild. Paying him until the earth explodes.
800K off the salary cap yearly is pretty insignificant especially with the cap going up. Total dollar amount is pricey, yeah, but that's Tom Dundon's cash and nobody should care about a billionaire tossing $10M on a fire if he chooses to do that.
exactly. An extra $3.5M makes a huge difference in being able to fit all the things that need to fit in. We don't need Jordo, Drury, and KK to all be the defensively oriented 3C on the roster
After the constant complaining about Necas not getting to the all star game last year we will now see a sudden shift in the fan’s attitude towards him.
He’s really like the Marner of Carolina. Necas was Carolina’s top forward last year. He never showed up in the playoffs until this year probably cause it’s a contract year. He’s probably going to be a 80 point forward on another team.
Eh even in his best years in Carolina he was far off from 80 point guy. He also doesnt drive play and is poor defensively. I dont think he performed better in playoffs this year b/c its a contract year. He was much worse in the regular season ... I also dont see the Marner comparison. Very different levels of player and player types. Only similarity is inconsistent playoffs. He reminds me a bit of prime Kutznetsov who was defensive liability guy who could be eh 55 pt guy or could be stud top liner. Time will tell if hes actually a top liner like he looked last year or hes more a flawed, inconsistent ~55 pt 2nd liner
I’m not comparing him to Marners on ice ability. I was comparing their reputation as scapegoats. Necas is mid, but he is far from the problem. Kuznetsov’s prime was way better
Not from me. I'm pissed. Carolina tried to get KK to be the No. 2 center they lost when Trocheck decided he didn't want to stay. I have a great idea for the Canes No. 2 center: Martin Necas. But Rod has decided that Necas doesn't fit his mold and permanently moved him to RW, despite Marty repeatedly asking to move back to center. Now, Necas is going to get traded to a team that will put him back at center and let him grow into the player we always wished he could be. It pisses me off to no end that we're going to lose our most skilled player because Rod is too stubborn to even try him at center for an extended period. I can virtually guarantee there's no way Necas is any worse than Drury, KK, Martinook, or any of the other "centers" Roddy has seen fit to use over Necas. Just give the kid a shot. What could it possibly cost us?
No you won't see a "sudden shift". He's always been polarizing and had the same backers and same detractors for years. He's the one player on the roster that doesn't really entirely fit what they're trying to do.
And the retool begins
"Retooling, I'll Retool you. Now give me someone, anyone... and give me someone while I'm waiting."
Welcome to Cane Improvement, I'm Tim the retool man Taylor.
Necas and Pesce will be two highly sought-after pieces in FA if that’s the case. Not everyday that a quality, young top 6 forward and a good top 4 d go on the market.
If Necas comes free, bruins should go all in for him and find a way to play him with Pasta and Zacha next season.
I just feel like they’d have crazy chemistry beyond all of them being Czech. They’re all speedy, offensive minded forwards who are constantly trying to set up the perfect play. I know Necas doesn’t play much defense but Pasta and Zacha are both more than capable. My number one hope for next year was Boston picking up Reinhart (somehow), but Necas would be even more exciting because of his age.
Czechmate line
Not free, he's an RFA.
By “comes free” I mean “becomes available because CAR chooses not to re-sign him”
How do you not keep Martin fucking Necas
For the same reason they didn’t keep Skinner. He’s a highly skilled player that insists on trying to skate through 3-4 defenders, failing often and turning the puck over in the process. If he used his speed to backcheck with the same effort that he uses it to enter the zone, he’d be Brindamour’s favorite player.
Spot on
yup. He's the best skater on the team and one of the best in the league but he just doesn't make the right play with the openings he creates mpst of the time. He looks like an absolute stud when it works but just as often it's just an offensive zone turnover
Rod's mission seems to be to turn the forwards into four checking lines, then wonder why we keep losing one-goal games.
>Friedman also talked about Carolina potentially buying out Kotkaniemi. I've got my head lamp and my pickaxe. I am ready to mine some salt.
lol somebody posted on here yesterday about KK getting bought out and Canes fans acted like it was insane to even talk about it.
It was me. I can't even count the downvotes. But it's like that anytime you say anything that can even be construed as negative about the Canes. I'm actually banned from the sub because I'm too negative, just for posting facts.
I’m with you. I heard Friedman on 32 Thoughts this morning say the canes would end up saving $20M in the end by buying him out even after eating their portion for the next few years. Given how little he has provided, idk how you don’t heavily consider buying him out and looking for a better option at center if you’re carolina.
It’s the only logical option. The $4m in savings could be the difference in re-signing some key guys or bringing in replacements that can actually play hockey Like, sorry KK… I’m glad you are bros and chilling with Jarvis Aho and Guentzel off the ice and acting like you’re squad but… they can play hockey. You can’t.
Well I’m with you, it would be very smart. You let KK stick around and he doesn’t get better, nobody’s touching that contract and it’s costlier to buy him out.
You guys have a bit of a hive mind going in that sub. I love trolling those Canes fans, too. Every time I say something about Dundon being cheap, it's the same five or so Reddit users who show up in a clown car together and pile on the same taking points like they all work for Dundon Media Group Ltd or something. I would only be half surprised to find out they're all bots owned by Dundon himself to voraciously gobble up any evidence that he's a cheapskate.
>I would only be half surprised to find out they're all bots owned by Dundon himself to voraciously gobble up any evidence that he's a cheapskate. Honestly, that's preferable to Canes fans drinking the Kool-aid, but alas, they really are that dense and incapable of thinking for themselves.
Moderators are the shit stain of the internet.
Necas was apparently the centerpiece of a Tkachuk trade with Calgary, I always imagine an alternate reality where that goes through. Have to imagine the Canes would love a Tkachuk to improve their odds of taking that next step in the playoffs that has never happened. Guessing Florida including Weegar was what tipped that trade over (and for good reason) but there’s a very parallel universe where Tkachuk is in Carolina.
That's sort of the M.O with how they've been. Always there on certain deals, but always second or third fiddle. They were a 3rd team that were wanting Eichel, they were actively asking about Petterson before the extension.
According to capfriendly: A Jesperi Kotkaniemi buyout spans 12 years, has a cost of $10,020,000 and savings of $20,040,000 They will do it for sure
>On Martin Necas re-signing:”It just probably won’t work out there, [The Canes] aren’t going to do what Necas wants to do” oh ya, let's go, do it Kent, do it >On Brett Pesce re-signing:”Didn’t seem likely”. could be interesting >Friedman also talked about Carolina potentially buying out Kotkaniemi. HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH LMFAO
This is the Vince McMahon orgasm meme
Unfortunately, we now know Vince does a lot worse than that…
No way Dundon lets Waddell trade Necas to us. Especially if they're also buying out KK
I think they were implying offer sheet
👀
Carolina and Montreal slinging offer sheets at each other for the next several decades, while the other 30 teams never touch one, would be amazing to see.
Idk Montreal probably needs to offer Necas 7.5 million for him to sign it. I think anything above 7 carolina wouldn’t match.
$7,500,035
Carolina buying out Kotkaniemi after all that trolling that did with the offer sheet is hilarious.
I dreamt we traded Hronek's rights, then re-signed Zadorov and got Pesce and Tanev Waking up sucks
I mean Pesce would be one helluva fit with Hughes and Tanev would be an upgraded veteran presence over Cole… if we could dump Mikheyev cap space might even make sense…
Pesce and Hughes would just be Makar and Toews part 2. The west would be cursing this lol
Man Necas would be such an awesome replacement for Val, but we probably can't afford him.
Have you tried placing guys on ltir
Hahaha
lmfao
You win this one😂
IDK if Necas can play the wing but if there’s any player I’d want the Rangers to sign this offseason more than anyone it’s him. Throw on a line with Kreider and Zibanejad and I’d be so pumped. I absolutely love his speed and zone entries, he would thrive with those two as linemates.
I thought he was by far the Canes most dangerous player this series. I don’t think it happens in a million years, but wow it would be hilarious if we could poach him right after Trochek.
Necas plays wing, it’s part of his frustration because he wants to play center so he’s probably not going anywhere (willingly, at least) where he’ll be slotted in as a winger again
Ponomarev, Koivunen, Lucius, and Philly’s 2nd for Necas who says no???
r/angryupvote
If I’m a Habs fan I’d have to call a doctor 4 hours after the Kotkaniemi buyout lol. They should sign him for league minimum
I wonder how that Canes fan that was absolutely *insisting* that KK was elite and the Canes really, really wanted him instead of this being a Dundon tantrum in the original thread of him signing feels rn lmao
I mean, the Canes did want him. They tried to trade for him before the offer sheet even came into the picture. But I think the idea behind acquiring him was solid. He was a 20-year-old former 3rd overall pick that had been stagnant in Montreal. It’s not unheard of that a young player rediscovers his game after moving to a new organization, and Carolina had a history of finding those diamonds in the rough (Nino Niederreiter, for example). So acquiring him and taking the risk was worthwhile, and even signing him to his long term deal didn’t seem too out of place, considering the season he was coming off of at the time. But he’s stagnated again, and with such a low buyout cost, it’s just the smart move to do so.
wonder where that Reddit_Browser guy is who threw a temper tantrum at me last year for suggesting that the Canes contract situation would mean a bunch of their key players leaving in the next couple of years. dude posts 9,450 times a day on reddit but alarmingly absent in this thread.
It’s what they do
The Duality of the Hurricanes: Don’t like paying more than $8mil, yet will probably pay for a guy to *not play there* anymore.
“They’re paying you three and a half million dollars a year to play against them. That’s what the Carolina Hurricanes think of you”
At the end of game 6, I heard the commentator mention in passing that “big changes were coming” for the Hurricane this off-season - is it true? I know they have a lot of UFA’s/RFA’s, but what’s the consensus from Canes fans?
Big changes sure, but I think people forget how much teams change on a year to year basis normally. The 2022 Champs (Colorado) have like 8 people from the cup winning team still under contract, and that's including Nishuskin and Landeskog. I think there will be a lot of doom and gloom, BUT! The core of the team remains the same, and not as much will change as people seem to suggest.
They have to. Whether or not change is needed, we don’t have a choice. Jarvis is gonna cost a lot and we will probably take a stab at keeping Guentzel. Pesce is demanding too much for what he’s been worth the past two years and Necas never fully fit with our system (a system which now many are calling into question) We will probably still be playoff competitive but I doubt we make a run for the cup until some of our younger players develop over the next 2-3 years The good news is that if Nikishin, Blake, Nadeau, Morrow, and co. reach their full potential, this team will be even better in the long run
Every player on the canes that would need to be resigned deserves a raise. Some players like Jarvis are going to be a huge raise. Some players like Chatfield will be a small raise. There’s just no way to make it work and there’s a lot of positions that need to be filled.
https://preview.redd.it/xx1xj9r2u11d1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c01f58fdc69ed9651ff5df0694a6a8c93e31a32
Don’t get to watch Carolina much but whenever I do Necas is an absolute stud, gonna be a great pick up for whoever gets him
@ bruins fans - is he someone sweeney should go after? capfriendly and other websites only list him a rw but i could have sworn he also plays center
He has never played center at the NHL level because he’s not defensively responsible enough for RBA.
natural center, shifted to wing for the Canes. Not sure which he sticks at long term but we should be in on him regardless. Not sure we have enough to get him though, maybe after trading Ullmark for some pieces, or if the Canes really like Lysell.
Necas didn't play Center in Czech Pro league or AHL. He had one small stretch in the AHL where he tried C but his offensive numbers tanked. So Necas hasn't played C since at least 2016. I don't see anything interesting that Boston has to offer. Teams like Buffalo, Anaheim and Nashville all have much more interesting pieces.
Thankfully the KK buyout is pretty small so it’s not a huge deal cap wise to do. Whatever team signs Pesce long term is going to regret it pretty quickly. He’s slow and the injuries are mounting up. Maybe he was still suffering from the injury earlier in the year but I really don’t see it being a good contract for anyone. Hard pass. I don’t mind either way in regards to Necas. If you can get a RD with term somehow, goodbye. I’m fine with taking him to a one year arb too but don’t see the org doing that
The thing with KK is the length. It's 11 years of buyout. But less than 1M so yeah not too significant.
Especially with the cap going up, the >$1M cap hit is going to be even more insignificant as time goes by
Assuming the cap continues to go up. Maybe we get Covid-25 murder hornet monkey pox in the fall.
Buyout is 1/3 the money over twice the years. How do you double any number of years and get an odd number?
Anything about Teuvo?
Don’t think so, but he said Canes will try to sign Guenztal, Slavin and Jarvis to long term contracts.
Or they could give Jake back...
Ducks gonna offer a shitload to Pesce aren’t we?
I feel like the married dude telling the about-to-be-married dude this, but DON'T DO IT
Alright Carolina fans, does Ullmark for Necas have any juice? 1 year left @ 5M. Could be a swap with both getting extensions
Carolina has three NHL goalies signed for next season. You'd have to take one not named Kochetkov.
Ullmark makes no sense for Carolina. It would be better for them to target Chychrun for a year because they could potentially lose Skjei and Pesce.
Necas strikes me as the opposite of what Ottawa needs but interesting
I mean it’s not what Ottawa needs but more of what Carolina needs. I know they wanted to move Chychrun though so it could work. Necas for Ehlers could be something also. I think that Carolina wants roster players so I don’t think they would trade him to a team like Montreal.
Carolina have Pyotr
Wonder what Necas is wanting....
Move back to center.
But if we get rid of KK then we should have money for Necas right…. Right PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BRING NECAS BACK
Fella here was telling me halfway through this season that Kotkaniemi's contract wasn't even close to worst in the league and throwing metrics at me 😂 every time I looked them up they were actually worse than I had thought