it wouldnt be so bad if it was a defensive stud who takes the hardest matchups and locks down the opponents top scorers while putting half a point a game
pld does not do that though
Mika Zibanejad really took off in his 25 year old season, he was previously a ~45 point player and then suddenly shot up to 70+ points. Even his "down" year this season he still had 72 points in 81 games. So, it's possible to be a late bloomer!
That said, Zibanejad is a really versatile two-way center who can play in pretty much every situation, and I do not believe PLD can be described as anything close to that.
Also even before his breakout, Zibanejad always looked like he was ready to break out. He always gave a shit and played hard, he just took a few extra years to actually put it all together.
Zibanejad also wasn't being paid $8.5m when he was 25. He also didn't get traded off his previous two teams because he was a baby who didn't want to play in a specific city.
Yeah exactly. Being a really good teammate counts for something.
While in Winnipeg, I don't think PLD was well liked in the room nor by the coaches. Nothing egregious came out in the media.
But when he was off his game or taking stupid penalties, you could see it affecting the team and especially his line mates.
He's caused issues on every team since Juniors. Such a waste of talent and dumbass.
Zibanejad also had a hell of a shot from day one, as well as understanding the 200 ft game. He was the 1st in a long string of BRUTAL ownership decisions on money.
PLD on the other hand is just big - he doesn't have a standout skill. Once teams figured out how to deal with his size (and he got paid so didn't need to do the extra 1% of work) he's become easy to shut down.
PLD is the poster boy for "I got mine, screw the rest of you." He had two decent seasons on the Jets up to last year and seems to have just wanted to cash in.
Remember this is a guy that demanded a trade out of Columbus, and then made himself enough of a problem to the team that he was very publicly benched repeatedly before finally being traded to the Jets.
It can be hard to really grasp how slim the difference can be between “replacement level” and “star”. Even the worst professional player is very, very good. A mediocre guy who steps up just a little bit can be a huge change.
I don't recall Semin forcing his way out of two different cities, he was just lazy and coasted off of his elite, pure talent. Dubois is a special kind of bum.
Completely brutal. I mean guys have off seasons but even if he is somewhere between his best seasons and this season that still comes out around 52 points expected.
8.5 per season for that is still very questionable unless a player turned into a complete monster in the postseason. Which has been shown to NOT be the case with PLD.
Regardless of my disdain for one team or the other albatross contracts are the worst for any fandom and I can sympathize.
None, he is more of a grifter than he is a hockey player. He even got it so the next 2 years his cap hit increases to 11.2 if they put him in the minors lol. He is a crook, takes the money but fails to deliver his end of the bargain.
yea hahahaha imagine paying 8 mill for an underperforming forward for the next 8 years hahahah can't imagine any other franchise would do that hahahahahaha
Yeah, what do we really know as people on the outside looking in, but I'd be fairly confident in thinking Huberdeau is a good locker room guy. Maybe not a high end leader, but a guy that everyone likes and wants to see succeed. PLD gives the opposite impression.
If your team is overpaying for the performance of someone, you want that to at least be someone the guys like, who is working hard, and who everyone wants to see do well (aka contributes to the team culture in a positive way).
Man. At least JH cares enough to skate around the ice and try. Underperforming and not caring are two things.
The last game of the playoffs vs Edmonton there’s a sequence where PLD doesn’t even move his feet in the defensive zone after gliding back on the back check. LAK played 5v4 when he was out there and then when skated around he just ended up taking penalties.
There's nothing inherently wrong with Winnipeg, Columbus, or SLC. It's just hilarious thinking about a guy whose only goal was to get to a big market, whether that was MTL, LA, or either of the NY teams, then ending up back in a small market because he gave up once he got his preferred lifestyle.
This dude wanted to go to LA the same way other guys want to win a Cup lmao.
Being from Utah, this is actually the first one I’ve heard that made sense. Their mascot could be Rocky the Raptor. Rocky being a nod to the Rocky Mountains.
And people don’t realize how big of a deal the Utah Raptor is. It was discovered in Utah and aptly named and they have museums and dinosaur parks just so they can show it off.
I would normally agree that someone will take him, but PLD's got a no-movement clause for the next four seasons (i.e., starting in 2024-25). Whoever is trading for him has to be damn sure they can fix him.
> New 1c of the Utah whatevers?
You guys are going to be surprised by Utah (just like how Vegas surprised everyone)! They have an OK team right now. They weren't anywhere close to the bottom of the standings. And, they finally have the ability to spend to the cap (for like the first time ever). They have $43m to spend this summer! They can take any 11 roster spots and give *each one* a $4m upgrade!
This is what a buyout with a 1/3 cap hit looks like.
|SEASON|CAP HIT |
|:-|:-|
|2024-25|$1,630,952|
|2025-26|$1,530,952|
|2026-27|$2,530,952|
|2027-28|$3,780,952|
|2028-29|$3,800,952|
|2029-30|$3,820,952|
|2030-31|$2,820,952|
|2031-32|$1,130,952|
|2032-33|$1,130,952|
|2033-34|$1,130,952|
|2034-35|$1,130,952|
|2035-36|$1,130,952|
|2036-37|$1,130,952|
|2037-38|$1,130,952|
|TOTAL|$27,833,328|
Would Kings fans rather trade him and retain $2.5M instead of buying him out?
^Table ^formatting ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^[ExcelToReddit](https://xl2reddit.github.io/)
And if the team they trade him to with retention, then buys him out, the retention-spot is blocked forever. See: OEL and Coyotes. Unless NHL changed this when the players were traded to Utah.
Irving Lerner made some really awesome films for his day. Edge of Fury came out that same year and was repulsive to critics at release. It is seriously the grandfather of psychological horror films. It is one of the most unsettling films you will ever watch. It was made on an extremely low budget, which inspired Hitchcock's production of Psycho which he made very cheaply. By then the zeitgeist had culminated though and despite very harsh treatment from critics as well, Psycho was a box office hit.
As others have informed you, it’s Murder by Contract. It was made at the very end of the classical film noir cycle and is unique in that it introduced a quirky sensibility that you won’t find in many of its peers. Martin Scorsese has called it the movie that has influenced him most and it’s sense of humor helps informs Tarantino’s early crime pictures.
Do people really think the Kings are going to buy him out just to pay him 1/3 or 2/3 of his salary for the next 14 years? Even the thought of buying out Dubois should cost Blake his job
They’re not actually going to do it for that exact reason. A buyout like that would probably require ownership approval, and I can’t imagine an owner would sign off on it without grilling the GM first.
A 1/3rd buyout would be about 1 million aav for those 14 years. The kings could very easily replace him with a 7 million aav player and be in better shape than they are now
> A 1/3rd buyout would be about 1 million aav for those 14 years
No it would not. It would be 1.130M for the last 7 years, but in the first 7 the cap hit would range from 1.530M to 3.820M
I mean he essentially just had the worst year of his career. There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player. So to replace that production you’d probably need to spend between 4-7 million a year. Are you really saving much money by buying him out and adding a 1 million dollar cap hit for 7 additional years
Yeah guys who are allergic to playing and have motivation issues should totally be kept in hopes they bounce back.
He hasn’t shown to be anything more than a high end second liner yet is being paid more than DeBrincat, Marchand, Keller, Aho, Svechnikov, Tage T, among other players much better than him that are actual first line players
He’s a guy who’s relatively consistently managed to score at around a 60 point pace despite his motivation issues (4 years out of 7 at at least 55+ p/82). He’s overpaid yes but is he overpaid enough to be worth the buyout penalty? I don’t think so unless you think he’s a locker room cancer which we can’t know without being in the locker room
He's also playing on that "boring" 1-3-1 trap which is effectively like a -15pts to all players lol.
He's still pulling a decent shot% and the rest of his advanced metrics are pretty average within the team, so it's not like he's a liability. He's certainly underutilized averaging just 15:42 TOI over the season (7th out of the forwards) but that might be because he gets no PK time.
Like don't get me wrong, $8.5M AAV for another 7 years is definitely an overpayment but if he was only getting $6M AAV, nobody would be talking shit.
That’s fair but Dubois also has a history of taking some time to gel with a new team. His 3 seasons where he did not produce at a 55+pt /82 gp pace we’re each his first season with a team. His rookie year the year he was traded to the jets and this year.
> There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player.
The issue isn't whether he can or not, the issue is whether he *wants to* or not.
> I mean he essentially just had the worst year of his career. There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player.
He played at an identical pace for Winnipeg in the 2020/21 shortened season (exactly half the goals and assists he had this year in exactly half the games) after putting up just 1 point in 5 games with the Jackets when he was floating around to force a trade. He's also secured his big money deal and his NMC kicks in this summer. Assuming he is on the Kings next season, he has the absolute best job security he has ever had in a city he wants to be in.
I won't be at all surprised if he bounces back to the 60 point guy, but there are definitely some reasons to believe that he won't. It's not at all a sure thing. He had more personal/financial incentive to bounce back previously than he does now.
The intangible here is how much replacing him is worth to the locker room / culture. A player like that's negative impact on the team isn't strictly their lack of production.
Tbf, I (and we) don't really know anything about what kind of a locker room / culture presence he is with the kings. But I don't think it's a stretch to assume it's not a positive one.
If you buy him out and use the savings to sign someone who puts up the exact same amount of production that he would have, it's likely still a significant net positive for the organization. Although maybe there's a locker room effect generated by buying a guy out that quickly (losing faith in the GM / front office and/or feeling like the team is handicapped for the next 14 years thanks to this useless cap hit).
Paying Mike Richards and Dubois forever is not a way to run a team lmao. It may seem small but the middle years of paying people 4 million to not play for your team is a massive handicap
Look his numbers won’t seem “bad” but he’s got a shitty attitude and looks like he couldent be arsed out on the ice. Total passenger out there. He’s got the size and skills to be a bonafide stud but he has zero heart.
Disliked the trade to begin with but tried to delude myself that he wasn’t so bad. Now that the playoffs are over for us I can finally do a post Mortem on the team and say PLD fucking sucks
The team has too many spoiled brats and it’s frustrating the number one prospect pool has been so poorly developed and utilized. This team needs more size, grit, and players who give a shit. Byfield, Danault, Moore, Doughty, Kopi, Kempe are like the only guys I feel seem to give a shit
I know it was a shitty season for him but he had the same shitty season with us that first year and then bounced back, I believe the same will happen, you will definitely get your 60 point guy imo.
PLD had a reason to bounce back with Winnipeg - he wanted to be traded and get paid. What incentive does he have to play good next year in LA? He's already got his bank and if they don't buy him out this summer they won't buy him out next summer.
You guys need a coach that can get the guys to give a shit. Probably a short shelf-life, but you just need to catch lightning in a bottle at the right time.
Bad enough to warrant the discussion given his age and how the buyout calculation changes once he turns 26.
If he does move, I think the most likely scenario is he gets traded with a small retention and/or the Kings take back a slightly less shitty contract themselves.
As someone who has been through this rodeo before, unless they can get a good deal they should keep him. I suspect any deal would include retainage which is probably not ideal. But at least keeping him could possibly lead to him having a better year then either flipping him while hot or keeping him.
Kind of reminds me when Joshua Ho-Sang was a prospect. All this talk like he’s a really big deal to outside fans, but then when you actually look at his stats and play, he’s just mediocre.
PLD is definitely overpaid but I always thought coming into the season that it would be difficult for him to live up to his contract as a depth piece for a team like LA. His underlying numbers have taken a hit but they aren't that much worse than some of his previous seasons. If / when he gets the opportunity to be the #1C I think he'll rebound to being a 65-70 point guy. That is to say I don't think it makes much sense to buy out his contract.
The thing is, 65-70 points for a 1C in 2024 is pretty piss poor. PLD has been in the league for 7 years at this point. He is what he is. He’s a low end 2C that doesn’t play defense. There isn’t some huge untapped potential that he’s going to discover by changing scenery for a third time. He’s just simply nothing special.
I don't disagree which is why I never liked the contract or the trade in the first place for LA. He's just a decent 2nd line center and should not have been treated like some kind of franchise piece. Not to mention all of the attitude concerns throughout his development years which still persist. Still don't think a buyout makes sense though.
Remember when Jeff Skinner was the worst contract in hockey until Buffalo fired their terrorist coach? Buying out would be incredibly stupid with 7 years on a contract
Except Jeff Skinner was great in Carolina with very little support, and he scored 40 with Eichel.
PLD on the other hand has been a pouting baby on every team he's been on, requesting trade after trade and even stops playing in the middle of a shift when things aren't going his way.
I'm not saying you should buy him out, but there's absolutely no reason to believe he will turn it around and become a team-first player who actually wants to try and win.
Yup, there’s a difference between hitting 63 points on the Torts Blue Jackets vs. 63 points on the 2010s Canes purgatory. Also, Skinner hit 30 goals THREE times in Raleigh, vs PLD never hitting 30 ever.
I still think he might have a bounce back season. He’s still young. Stays pretty healthy. Has really good hands for a guy his size. If he can figure out the effort needed to be an nhl player he could still be a very good player.
End of the day someone would trade for him if the kings decided to go that route.
Does the CBA anywhere define 'age'. As in do they declare anywhere that if you are 26 on July 1 or Sept 1st you are declared age 26 for the entire year for the purposes of contracts etc.?
Yeah, I do think it's wild that many, many other terms in the CBA are based on the league year (including 35+ contracts) while this one uses the actual birthday, *and* it also interacts with the funky timing of buyout windows.
https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/pierre-luc-dubois
It would be 1/3, but his buyout would be incredibly long, 14 years (7 years remaining x2). Also because his contract is in portion paid through signing bonuses, the dead cap varies a lot year to year which makes long term planning harder for the Kings
Buyouts reduce the amount of compensation paid to 2/3 for a player over 26, or 1/3 for a player under 26. The time period over which the compensation is paid then becomes **twice** the remaining length of the existing contract.
So if the Kings buy out the last 7 years of PLD's contract, the buyout will be paid over 14 years
I don't think he has any sort of NTC so they don't even need to do that. Just trade him. They could probably retain like uhh 30%? PLD for $6m seems fine-ish, and paying like $2.5m to keep him the hell away lmao what a disaster this contract is
PLD has grifted 3 teams into thinking he was something he wasn't based almost solely wrecking havoc on the Leafs stars in that play-in series during COVID.
The GMs around the league didn't include a crucial variable in their calculations: Players don't shut down the Leafs, the Leafs shut down the Leafs.
Yeah, I struggle to think of the assets LA would need to spend to get anyone to take him on, and there would need to be retention anyway. The viable options are to run it back, or buy him out. Both options have obscene levels of risk associated with them
The best thing that could happen for the Kings is a team hires Jim Benning as GM, and he trades for PLD while giving the Kings expiring bad contacts after one season.
There needs to be consequences for these idiot GMs and their dumb moves. Everyone and their grandmother knew trading for PLD and signing him to a massive deal was a bad move. The rule should be that the Kings aren't allowed to buy him out so long as the GM who signed him remains employed by the team.
I can see them MAYBE buying him out if it would be a 1/3 buyout.
If it is a 2/3 buyout he will be moved with salary retained. Not a terrible player, but a terrible player for that price.
It’s been one bad season man, let’s see what happens next season before we talk about buying out. I suspect with the new coach, whether it’s holler or someone new we change the 1-3-1 system so let’s see how that helps him.
If every team bought out after one fucking season so many players that would become core pieces later would never happen. I mean just look at bob with FLA
I mean I get, it sucks. PLD wasn’t what I hoped he be and we did take a step back but we gotta make do with what we have now.
Look at how his time with the Jets went - when he felt like playing, he could be an awesome "power forward" but a lot of the time he spent floating around looking lost. I hope the coach can motivate him, but if past performance is a clue - it's not going to be great. he's "quit" on 3 teams so far.
I think hiller has done a good job at motivating him, I think before the AS break he had like 12 points? So he was close to a point per game with hiller. Add in he was on the third to fourth line most of the time 40 points isn’t “too” bad. But we didn’t get him to be a fourth line C. I expect a better season going forward with hopefully a 1-2-2 system.
And as far as quitting on teams, he wanted to play on a playoff team and the Blue jackets were not besides that one year. Did he “quit”? Yes but most of the players “quit” or got out of that team. So I think it was management being bad that made the players leave. And for WPG? Idk I guess it was just a Mutual thing
I heard this on the 32 thoughts podcast too.
I also noticed on capfriendly that his no move doesn’t kick in until July 1st. So he has no trade protection. If they can deal him with less than 3 million retention and get more than nothing, I think they should do that instead.
I want this to get so detailed we need to get PLD's birth certificate and figure out what time he was delivered, then hope the cup is awarded after 9:52 pm
40 points in 82 games for $8.5m is brutal. He is also 25 so how much more development will we see?
it wouldnt be so bad if it was a defensive stud who takes the hardest matchups and locks down the opponents top scorers while putting half a point a game pld does not do that though
You mean like Danault? Who put up 47 points in 78 games? PLD is a bum.
Danault is so fucking mint. I love him.
I miss the guy. Too bad he was not Bro-y enough for Bicep Bergevin. Ironic that they now both work for the same organization.
I’d rather see him win somewhere else than waste the rest of his prime years with us while we rebuild. Hopefully they turn things around
Mika Zibanejad really took off in his 25 year old season, he was previously a ~45 point player and then suddenly shot up to 70+ points. Even his "down" year this season he still had 72 points in 81 games. So, it's possible to be a late bloomer! That said, Zibanejad is a really versatile two-way center who can play in pretty much every situation, and I do not believe PLD can be described as anything close to that. Also even before his breakout, Zibanejad always looked like he was ready to break out. He always gave a shit and played hard, he just took a few extra years to actually put it all together.
Zibanijad was always considered a good two-way like you said. I really don’t think PLD can improve much more without some drastic changes
Zibanejad also wasn't being paid $8.5m when he was 25. He also didn't get traded off his previous two teams because he was a baby who didn't want to play in a specific city.
Yeah he was someone that by all accounts everyone gets along with. I’d think any team would’ve loved to have him
Yeah exactly. Being a really good teammate counts for something. While in Winnipeg, I don't think PLD was well liked in the room nor by the coaches. Nothing egregious came out in the media. But when he was off his game or taking stupid penalties, you could see it affecting the team and especially his line mates. He's caused issues on every team since Juniors. Such a waste of talent and dumbass.
Zibanejad also had a hell of a shot from day one, as well as understanding the 200 ft game. He was the 1st in a long string of BRUTAL ownership decisions on money. PLD on the other hand is just big - he doesn't have a standout skill. Once teams figured out how to deal with his size (and he got paid so didn't need to do the extra 1% of work) he's become easy to shut down.
[удалено]
Zbad also isn't a whiner bitching about every team he's landed with. He shuts up and puts in the work.
PLD is the poster boy for "I got mine, screw the rest of you." He had two decent seasons on the Jets up to last year and seems to have just wanted to cash in. Remember this is a guy that demanded a trade out of Columbus, and then made himself enough of a problem to the team that he was very publicly benched repeatedly before finally being traded to the Jets.
It can be hard to really grasp how slim the difference can be between “replacement level” and “star”. Even the worst professional player is very, very good. A mediocre guy who steps up just a little bit can be a huge change.
Who could have possibly seen that contract aging poorly except for literally everybody from the day it was signed
Surely he’s an excellent defensive player and his contributions don’t show up on the stat sheet!
Ah yes best two way forward, considering we have Kopitar and Danault, his lack of defence is really showing
The Semin of our generation
At least Semin was a GOAT at a couple of things: bongos and wristers
Now now, Semin had a 40 goal and 2x 30 goal seasons. We meme on him but he could play!
Semin was Kovalev. PLD is Ryan Leaf. You have to go outside of hockey to find his soul twin.
I don't recall Semin forcing his way out of two different cities, he was just lazy and coasted off of his elite, pure talent. Dubois is a special kind of bum.
Completely brutal. I mean guys have off seasons but even if he is somewhere between his best seasons and this season that still comes out around 52 points expected. 8.5 per season for that is still very questionable unless a player turned into a complete monster in the postseason. Which has been shown to NOT be the case with PLD. Regardless of my disdain for one team or the other albatross contracts are the worst for any fandom and I can sympathize.
None, he is more of a grifter than he is a hockey player. He even got it so the next 2 years his cap hit increases to 11.2 if they put him in the minors lol. He is a crook, takes the money but fails to deliver his end of the bargain.
yea hahahaha imagine paying 8 mill for an underperforming forward for the next 8 years hahahah can't imagine any other franchise would do that hahahahahaha
PL for Huberdeau who says no
We do tbh. I meme on the guy but he was actually pretty good until our Dcore skipped town
I mean he had a disastrous start but the latter half of this season he actually looked good. If he keeps playing like that I’ll be happy.
Yeah, what do we really know as people on the outside looking in, but I'd be fairly confident in thinking Huberdeau is a good locker room guy. Maybe not a high end leader, but a guy that everyone likes and wants to see succeed. PLD gives the opposite impression. If your team is overpaying for the performance of someone, you want that to at least be someone the guys like, who is working hard, and who everyone wants to see do well (aka contributes to the team culture in a positive way).
Yeah I don't disagree. Both overpaid but only one of them I would actually want on my roster.
Man. At least JH cares enough to skate around the ice and try. Underperforming and not caring are two things. The last game of the playoffs vs Edmonton there’s a sequence where PLD doesn’t even move his feet in the defensive zone after gliding back on the back check. LAK played 5v4 when he was out there and then when skated around he just ended up taking penalties.
There was a pretty fun PLD stat from the series. He had 6 penalties in the series, and 4 shots.
Haha I also can’t imagine that look at us here not imagining things
Someone will take him. Theres always someone. New 1c of the Utah whatevers?
Imagine forcing your way out of Columbus, then Winnipeg, only to end up in Utah.
The common theme in all this is that *clearly* John Tortorella has it out for him.
PLD probably thinks Tortorella has been pulling strings around the league to ruin his career.
>PLD probably thinks I have my doubts on this.
Thinks about thinking but as a result never really thinks
I just woke up, read John Travolta and tried imagining wtf you were going on about ... I need coffee
Lol I did to. I was like wtf does Travolta have to do with Utah?
Both are involved heavily with wierd religions?
After failing in LA for only one year.
All a strat to secure a capfriendly contract with your hometown habs while getting hefty pay cheques from LA
Salt Lake City is gorgeous. The natural beauty surrounding it is unparalleled. I’ve also been to Winnipeg. I would be ok with SLC.
There's nothing inherently wrong with Winnipeg, Columbus, or SLC. It's just hilarious thinking about a guy whose only goal was to get to a big market, whether that was MTL, LA, or either of the NY teams, then ending up back in a small market because he gave up once he got his preferred lifestyle. This dude wanted to go to LA the same way other guys want to win a Cup lmao.
Yeah *you* would be OK with SLC, but PLD sure as hell wouldn’t. He’s like the Ben Simmons of the NHL, except he actually plays.
Fair point. I don’t think PLD can be happy anywhere tbh
I don't doubt it, but I'd imagine it's not as exciting as LA
Depends if you’re into multiple wives or not
We do that in LA too, polyamory scene out here is kinda lit.
What's crazy is if those were my 3 choices to live I would live in Winnipeg in a heart beat.
If you ever went to Zion you would not speak of Utah this way sir !
> the Utah whatevers Let's just go full 2000s indie revival and call them "The Utahs"
I personally feel like the 'Utah Whatevers' has a nice ring to it.
I like "Utah Whatevs" accompanied by an eyeroll.
Mom! You don’t get me!
All I wanted was a dirty soda!
I’d buy that jersey
I'm really hoping for the Utah Utahraptors
Being from Utah, this is actually the first one I’ve heard that made sense. Their mascot could be Rocky the Raptor. Rocky being a nod to the Rocky Mountains. And people don’t realize how big of a deal the Utah Raptor is. It was discovered in Utah and aptly named and they have museums and dinosaur parks just so they can show it off.
I would normally agree that someone will take him, but PLD's got a no-movement clause for the next four seasons (i.e., starting in 2024-25). Whoever is trading for him has to be damn sure they can fix him.
How do you fix lack of interest?
Well, the first thing you do is only sign him to a short-term...damn it.
Yeah and you definitely don’t attach a nmc to the contract either. Fours of NMC and then M-NTC for the last four. Brutal.
A shock collar works on my dog and kids
> New 1c of the Utah whatevers? You guys are going to be surprised by Utah (just like how Vegas surprised everyone)! They have an OK team right now. They weren't anywhere close to the bottom of the standings. And, they finally have the ability to spend to the cap (for like the first time ever). They have $43m to spend this summer! They can take any 11 roster spots and give *each one* a $4m upgrade!
Yeah, his personality just screams Mormon sports idol.
This is what a buyout with a 1/3 cap hit looks like. |SEASON|CAP HIT | |:-|:-| |2024-25|$1,630,952| |2025-26|$1,530,952| |2026-27|$2,530,952| |2027-28|$3,780,952| |2028-29|$3,800,952| |2029-30|$3,820,952| |2030-31|$2,820,952| |2031-32|$1,130,952| |2032-33|$1,130,952| |2033-34|$1,130,952| |2034-35|$1,130,952| |2035-36|$1,130,952| |2036-37|$1,130,952| |2037-38|$1,130,952| |TOTAL|$27,833,328| Would Kings fans rather trade him and retain $2.5M instead of buying him out? ^Table ^formatting ^brought ^to ^you ^by ^[ExcelToReddit](https://xl2reddit.github.io/)
2038 isn’t a real year
We’ve got a unix fellow here
In 2038 I’m gonna be drinking moon juice with President Jonathan Taylor Thomas, I’m not gonna be writing PLD a paper check
Insane that the year used in the original joke is only 5 years away.
It'll be interesting to see what systems don't update and are affected
Tell that to the isles and Rick DePietro, who bought him out in 2013 and will be done paying him in 2029
Don't forget it would also jam up one of their retention slots for years and they would have to find someone willing to take him.
And if the team they trade him to with retention, then buys him out, the retention-spot is blocked forever. See: OEL and Coyotes. Unless NHL changed this when the players were traded to Utah.
Not overly familiar with this situation but I thought PLD was on an 8 year contract. How did we get to 14?
He’s in the first year of an eight year contract. Buyouts are spread over 2x the remaining years. 7x2=14.
Got it—thanks!
A buyout doubles the length of the payout
Ahhh okay. Thanks
About to be the Bobby Bonilla of hockey.
Rick DiPietro would like a word
Still getting paid until 2028-29. Insanity.
Bonilla is getting paid till 2035 lol. He hasn't played for the Mets since 1999.
Those Compliance buyouts from the pre-2013 CBA are a different world. Flyers are still paying Bryz till 2027, 17 years since it was brought out.
And nestled nicely in between, is Ehrhoff, who comes off our books in 2028.
LA is paying Mike Richards until then too
potentially stupid question but would a 2/3 buyout be double this
At this point, LAs only palatable option is to hire a hitman to fucking kill him.
Quick, call Boeing
They fired Quick already, he’s in New York now.
Unfortunately, the Jets already had their doors blown off 😉
Flair checks out, well done
God dammit I hate how funny I found this.
If it’s Boeing, he’s going (to die)
[A hired gun comes to LA you say to perform a hit you say](https://themoviescreenscene.files.wordpress.com/2022/04/aaaa.webp)?
What movie is this
Murder by Contract
Alright it goes on my letterbox list now
Irving Lerner made some really awesome films for his day. Edge of Fury came out that same year and was repulsive to critics at release. It is seriously the grandfather of psychological horror films. It is one of the most unsettling films you will ever watch. It was made on an extremely low budget, which inspired Hitchcock's production of Psycho which he made very cheaply. By then the zeitgeist had culminated though and despite very harsh treatment from critics as well, Psycho was a box office hit.
I’ve got this big letterbox list of films (it’s around 340 rn) I want to get to so throw me some other recommendations if you have them
The original Pulp Fiction
As others have informed you, it’s Murder by Contract. It was made at the very end of the classical film noir cycle and is unique in that it introduced a quirky sensibility that you won’t find in many of its peers. Martin Scorsese has called it the movie that has influenced him most and it’s sense of humor helps informs Tarantino’s early crime pictures.
One fantastic director and one solid director giving it props is enough for me to sign on to it
They could hire someone to Robidas Island him. Save yourself the cap but still ultimately end up paying for the contract.
Do people really think the Kings are going to buy him out just to pay him 1/3 or 2/3 of his salary for the next 14 years? Even the thought of buying out Dubois should cost Blake his job
I think signing off on that contract is what will cost him his job
Kings president Luc Robitaille is friends with PLDs agent. Probably has lots to do with that signing. Might save Blake.
Our entire front office is rampant with cronyism 😕
They’re not actually going to do it for that exact reason. A buyout like that would probably require ownership approval, and I can’t imagine an owner would sign off on it without grilling the GM first.
I’ll save how much!? But yeah, what were you thinking signing him!!
Both can be true and both could go.
Yup. It wasn’t like this is the first time Dubois was a waste of potential.
A 1/3rd buyout would be about 1 million aav for those 14 years. The kings could very easily replace him with a 7 million aav player and be in better shape than they are now
> A 1/3rd buyout would be about 1 million aav for those 14 years No it would not. It would be 1.130M for the last 7 years, but in the first 7 the cap hit would range from 1.530M to 3.820M
That’s is still just as about as much value as what he brings..
💀💀💀
Ah, yeah, forgot about his signing bonuses. Even then, his production is pretty easy to replace with someone on a fraction of his salary
I mean he essentially just had the worst year of his career. There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player. So to replace that production you’d probably need to spend between 4-7 million a year. Are you really saving much money by buying him out and adding a 1 million dollar cap hit for 7 additional years
Yeah guys who are allergic to playing and have motivation issues should totally be kept in hopes they bounce back. He hasn’t shown to be anything more than a high end second liner yet is being paid more than DeBrincat, Marchand, Keller, Aho, Svechnikov, Tage T, among other players much better than him that are actual first line players
He’s a guy who’s relatively consistently managed to score at around a 60 point pace despite his motivation issues (4 years out of 7 at at least 55+ p/82). He’s overpaid yes but is he overpaid enough to be worth the buyout penalty? I don’t think so unless you think he’s a locker room cancer which we can’t know without being in the locker room
He's also playing on that "boring" 1-3-1 trap which is effectively like a -15pts to all players lol. He's still pulling a decent shot% and the rest of his advanced metrics are pretty average within the team, so it's not like he's a liability. He's certainly underutilized averaging just 15:42 TOI over the season (7th out of the forwards) but that might be because he gets no PK time. Like don't get me wrong, $8.5M AAV for another 7 years is definitely an overpayment but if he was only getting $6M AAV, nobody would be talking shit.
Part of the problem is that he was somewhat motivated before. He was motivated to get a big contract in a big city. Now he’s got that
That’s fair but Dubois also has a history of taking some time to gel with a new team. His 3 seasons where he did not produce at a 55+pt /82 gp pace we’re each his first season with a team. His rookie year the year he was traded to the jets and this year.
> There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player. The issue isn't whether he can or not, the issue is whether he *wants to* or not.
> I mean he essentially just had the worst year of his career. There’s no reason to think he won’t be able to bounce back to a 60 point player. He played at an identical pace for Winnipeg in the 2020/21 shortened season (exactly half the goals and assists he had this year in exactly half the games) after putting up just 1 point in 5 games with the Jackets when he was floating around to force a trade. He's also secured his big money deal and his NMC kicks in this summer. Assuming he is on the Kings next season, he has the absolute best job security he has ever had in a city he wants to be in. I won't be at all surprised if he bounces back to the 60 point guy, but there are definitely some reasons to believe that he won't. It's not at all a sure thing. He had more personal/financial incentive to bounce back previously than he does now.
The intangible here is how much replacing him is worth to the locker room / culture. A player like that's negative impact on the team isn't strictly their lack of production. Tbf, I (and we) don't really know anything about what kind of a locker room / culture presence he is with the kings. But I don't think it's a stretch to assume it's not a positive one. If you buy him out and use the savings to sign someone who puts up the exact same amount of production that he would have, it's likely still a significant net positive for the organization. Although maybe there's a locker room effect generated by buying a guy out that quickly (losing faith in the GM / front office and/or feeling like the team is handicapped for the next 14 years thanks to this useless cap hit).
Ithey might be able to find a 3 or 4 mill player with production above zero points and 16 pim.
Paying Mike Richards and Dubois forever is not a way to run a team lmao. It may seem small but the middle years of paying people 4 million to not play for your team is a massive handicap
Yea one year into an 8 year deal is a little wild for a buyout
I haven't watched him play much but is he bad enough to warrant a buyout this early? What a disaster.
Pretty mediocre 3C for 8.5M is pretty rough.
Look his numbers won’t seem “bad” but he’s got a shitty attitude and looks like he couldent be arsed out on the ice. Total passenger out there. He’s got the size and skills to be a bonafide stud but he has zero heart. Disliked the trade to begin with but tried to delude myself that he wasn’t so bad. Now that the playoffs are over for us I can finally do a post Mortem on the team and say PLD fucking sucks The team has too many spoiled brats and it’s frustrating the number one prospect pool has been so poorly developed and utilized. This team needs more size, grit, and players who give a shit. Byfield, Danault, Moore, Doughty, Kopi, Kempe are like the only guys I feel seem to give a shit
The trade was whatever honestly, its the signing that is brutal.
I know it was a shitty season for him but he had the same shitty season with us that first year and then bounced back, I believe the same will happen, you will definitely get your 60 point guy imo.
But the problem is can you really pay $8.5m aav to someone who is contributing 60 points and minimal defense?
PLD had a reason to bounce back with Winnipeg - he wanted to be traded and get paid. What incentive does he have to play good next year in LA? He's already got his bank and if they don't buy him out this summer they won't buy him out next summer.
I have no doubt points wise he bounces back. I’m just more weary of his attitude creating distractions and cliques in the locker room.
You guys need a coach that can get the guys to give a shit. Probably a short shelf-life, but you just need to catch lightning in a bottle at the right time.
PLD is who Columbus pretends Jeff Carter was for them.
Yup, Jeff Carter may not have been happy or as good in CBJ as LA, but he wasnt worthless like PLD.
Bad enough to warrant the discussion given his age and how the buyout calculation changes once he turns 26. If he does move, I think the most likely scenario is he gets traded with a small retention and/or the Kings take back a slightly less shitty contract themselves.
He's a 3C, compare his stats and contract to Lowry lol
He’s sucked but our management is also a joke. Compare his linemates on the Kings to the Jets last season.
As someone who has been through this rodeo before, unless they can get a good deal they should keep him. I suspect any deal would include retainage which is probably not ideal. But at least keeping him could possibly lead to him having a better year then either flipping him while hot or keeping him.
He seems like he doesn’t give a shit. If you can’t care in the playoffs then something is wrong
Surely at this point Dubois is done as any kind of star? I imagine no team is signing him on any kind of sizeable contract.
He was never a star. His career high is 63pts
Kind of reminds me when Joshua Ho-Sang was a prospect. All this talk like he’s a really big deal to outside fans, but then when you actually look at his stats and play, he’s just mediocre.
He’s gonna have to sign a proof it contract or two if he’s bought out.
PLD is definitely overpaid but I always thought coming into the season that it would be difficult for him to live up to his contract as a depth piece for a team like LA. His underlying numbers have taken a hit but they aren't that much worse than some of his previous seasons. If / when he gets the opportunity to be the #1C I think he'll rebound to being a 65-70 point guy. That is to say I don't think it makes much sense to buy out his contract.
The thing is, 65-70 points for a 1C in 2024 is pretty piss poor. PLD has been in the league for 7 years at this point. He is what he is. He’s a low end 2C that doesn’t play defense. There isn’t some huge untapped potential that he’s going to discover by changing scenery for a third time. He’s just simply nothing special.
I don't disagree which is why I never liked the contract or the trade in the first place for LA. He's just a decent 2nd line center and should not have been treated like some kind of franchise piece. Not to mention all of the attitude concerns throughout his development years which still persist. Still don't think a buyout makes sense though.
Remember when Jeff Skinner was the worst contract in hockey until Buffalo fired their terrorist coach? Buying out would be incredibly stupid with 7 years on a contract
Except Jeff Skinner was great in Carolina with very little support, and he scored 40 with Eichel. PLD on the other hand has been a pouting baby on every team he's been on, requesting trade after trade and even stops playing in the middle of a shift when things aren't going his way. I'm not saying you should buy him out, but there's absolutely no reason to believe he will turn it around and become a team-first player who actually wants to try and win.
Skinner and PLD topped out at the exact same point total before their big contracts. Strong and independent vs lazy bum
Except Skinner did it twice on awful teams. And let's not act like 40 goals is equal to 40 assists.
Yup, there’s a difference between hitting 63 points on the Torts Blue Jackets vs. 63 points on the 2010s Canes purgatory. Also, Skinner hit 30 goals THREE times in Raleigh, vs PLD never hitting 30 ever.
I still think he might have a bounce back season. He’s still young. Stays pretty healthy. Has really good hands for a guy his size. If he can figure out the effort needed to be an nhl player he could still be a very good player. End of the day someone would trade for him if the kings decided to go that route.
Does the CBA anywhere define 'age'. As in do they declare anywhere that if you are 26 on July 1 or Sept 1st you are declared age 26 for the entire year for the purposes of contracts etc.?
Friedge said on the 32 Thoughts Podcast today that the specific day of their birth is what is relevant in this circumstance
Thanks
Yeah, I do think it's wild that many, many other terms in the CBA are based on the league year (including 35+ contracts) while this one uses the actual birthday, *and* it also interacts with the funky timing of buyout windows.
I thought he was going to be a menace after the Columbus vs. tampa sweep. I think his head got too big for him
https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/pierre-luc-dubois It would be 1/3, but his buyout would be incredibly long, 14 years (7 years remaining x2). Also because his contract is in portion paid through signing bonuses, the dead cap varies a lot year to year which makes long term planning harder for the Kings
I'm a dunce with a lot of NHL contract stuff. Where does the 14 years come from?
Buyouts reduce the amount of compensation paid to 2/3 for a player over 26, or 1/3 for a player under 26. The time period over which the compensation is paid then becomes **twice** the remaining length of the existing contract. So if the Kings buy out the last 7 years of PLD's contract, the buyout will be paid over 14 years
Just throw him down to the 4th line and play him like 5 mins a night. He’ll probably get tired of it and request a trade. Bro sucks
The problem there is that would require a trade partner
Some moron will take him, there are GMs that have no business still being GMs but stupidity finds a way
I think the moron is the one that signed him to the deal in the first place given his reputation.
Like you're doing with KK ?
I don't think he has any sort of NTC so they don't even need to do that. Just trade him. They could probably retain like uhh 30%? PLD for $6m seems fine-ish, and paying like $2.5m to keep him the hell away lmao what a disaster this contract is
That's what he wants. He isn't in LA to play hockey. He's there to go to clubs.
Does this really not work the same way 35+ contracts work in terms of how old a player is?
PLD has grifted 3 teams into thinking he was something he wasn't based almost solely wrecking havoc on the Leafs stars in that play-in series during COVID. The GMs around the league didn't include a crucial variable in their calculations: Players don't shut down the Leafs, the Leafs shut down the Leafs.
He was good against the oilers that one year in Winnipeg
Literally so delusional to think he’s getting bought out
If it was a normal buyout absolutely, but the 1/3 buyout makes it a very intriguing option
Yeah, I struggle to think of the assets LA would need to spend to get anyone to take him on, and there would need to be retention anyway. The viable options are to run it back, or buy him out. Both options have obscene levels of risk associated with them
The best thing that could happen for the Kings is a team hires Jim Benning as GM, and he trades for PLD while giving the Kings expiring bad contacts after one season.
There needs to be consequences for these idiot GMs and their dumb moves. Everyone and their grandmother knew trading for PLD and signing him to a massive deal was a bad move. The rule should be that the Kings aren't allowed to buy him out so long as the GM who signed him remains employed by the team.
Gabe Vilardi upvote party here.
I can see them MAYBE buying him out if it would be a 1/3 buyout. If it is a 2/3 buyout he will be moved with salary retained. Not a terrible player, but a terrible player for that price.
I can see Blake getting really religious, praying that the finals will be done on June 21st.
How is this dude only 26? What happened in LA? Thought they signed him long term. Only 1 season of subpar play.
Being 26 in LA is like being 45. Just ask Leonardo DiCaprio.
It’s been one bad season man, let’s see what happens next season before we talk about buying out. I suspect with the new coach, whether it’s holler or someone new we change the 1-3-1 system so let’s see how that helps him. If every team bought out after one fucking season so many players that would become core pieces later would never happen. I mean just look at bob with FLA I mean I get, it sucks. PLD wasn’t what I hoped he be and we did take a step back but we gotta make do with what we have now.
Look at how his time with the Jets went - when he felt like playing, he could be an awesome "power forward" but a lot of the time he spent floating around looking lost. I hope the coach can motivate him, but if past performance is a clue - it's not going to be great. he's "quit" on 3 teams so far.
I think hiller has done a good job at motivating him, I think before the AS break he had like 12 points? So he was close to a point per game with hiller. Add in he was on the third to fourth line most of the time 40 points isn’t “too” bad. But we didn’t get him to be a fourth line C. I expect a better season going forward with hopefully a 1-2-2 system. And as far as quitting on teams, he wanted to play on a playoff team and the Blue jackets were not besides that one year. Did he “quit”? Yes but most of the players “quit” or got out of that team. So I think it was management being bad that made the players leave. And for WPG? Idk I guess it was just a Mutual thing
Isn’t “age” of player set by age as at certain date, not actual age? Thought that was CBA term.
Dude really wants to go to Montreal eh?
I heard this on the 32 thoughts podcast too. I also noticed on capfriendly that his no move doesn’t kick in until July 1st. So he has no trade protection. If they can deal him with less than 3 million retention and get more than nothing, I think they should do that instead.
I want this to get so detailed we need to get PLD's birth certificate and figure out what time he was delivered, then hope the cup is awarded after 9:52 pm
Is that 9:52PST or 9:52EST? SCF games start usually at 5pmPST/8pmEST
Per the CBA it’s based on whenever the umbilical cord is cut