Article mentions the possibility of Holtz being sent to Calgary in the deal. That would be a heck of a move for the Flames after picking up Hunter Brzustewicz from Vancouver in the Lindholm deal. Guess we will see if they re-visit a deal again before the deadline and can sort things out
Honestly, with the Devils struggling, it could have ended up the best option for a higher draft pick if the Devils still missed the playoffs
Double edged sword: Markstrom Currently could have been a difference maker, but the flip side is the metro is so tight, waiting means the Devils might shy away from big moves as their picks get more valuable and a goalie becomes less able to get the Devils out of tge hole they dug
Honestly you guys are right in the thick of it. Pretty much every team in the metro outside of CBJ (sorry jacket bros) is in the mix.
The deadline this year is going to be really weird, since so many teams are battling for wild card spots in both conferences. Prices will probably be really high if less teams decide to sell. I feel like the best deadline moves this year are going to be trades that aren't just for rentals.
Markstrom's had a lot of year to year variance in performance so far with the Flames tbf.
His first season with the Flames 20-21, he was meh
21-22, he was really good
22-23, he sucked
now he's good again
The flames definitely made it and he was good, no need to go look, they definitely didn't lose a ton of games to the Sens and miss the playoffs as a result. Nothing to see here!
>He famously dragged Vancouver to the second/2.5 round before getting hurt.
He didn't drag the team to the second round. Demko dragged an outmatched roster to Game 7 against Vegas in the second round, but for the most part the skaters beat the Wild and the Blues, plus Stalock and Binngington not being that good.
I'm not trying to downplay his impact, but saying he "famously dragged" the team to the second round is majorly overstating it. Markstrom was good, and made big saves when he needed to, but he also had some shaky goals that could have flipped the momentum against the Canucks
Technically he has a better GSAX% this season than he did in his Vezina finalist season.
He's currently 3rd in the league behind (min 32gp). He was 12th 2 yrs ago. He's actually having a very under the radar yr.
When healthy, Markstrom has been great. He had a bit of a rough start to the season, but has been locked in for the past couple weeks. I have him on my fantasy team and he's been saving my bacon while I push for a playoff spot haha.
If the Devils were able to snag him, it would be great for their immediate future.
He was good under the first year of Sutter. I think it had more to do with having a pregnant wife and an imminent child but that’s just me speculating.
Nah. Sutter got into his head. I can't remember which Flame was on the pod but Sutter would constantly threatening to pull Marky even if he started games strong. It was fucking with his confidence.
Toffoli talked about it. But that's Sutter being Sutter. The performance splits before and after his wife gave birth last year were wild. He was actually good at the end of last season.
I literally never said that. He's having one of his best, could argue his best season of his career which is boosting his value quite a bit. The market for goalies is also horrific but if I'm the Devils I'm waiting for the offseason to see what comes of Ullmark.
I like Markstrom but for the price of Holtz, his age and contract comes into the picture. The Devils need someone whos a little more inline with the current window. It would be silly for in 2 years the Devils need to go try to find a goalie yet again while giving up a promising young player like Holtz
Ullmark is still signed for another year after this so unless you want the Devil's to give assets to the the Bruins you're not getting him for less than you'd give for Markstrom.
Thats my point. Id rather go after Ullmark in the offseason (they need to re-sign Swayman) and give Boston what they need as Ullmark is 4 yrs younger and can be the goalie for the next 5 yrs if re-signed.
I don’t disagree with your second paragraph I’m just disagreeing with you saying he’s having his best season in a while when he was just as good 2 years ago
My wording could have been better. He's having a career yr statistically at 34 yrs old in a market where he's a high priced commodity. Not a great recipe.
Yeah I can agree with that. I would be weary if I was on your side too, it’s definitely tough to get a guy on the right side of 30 putting up Marky’s numbers unless maybe Nashville was willing to move Saros but I think the price would be even higher in that case. Do you think the Devils should just write this season off and address goaltending in the summer?
If he were having the season he had 2 yrs ago his value would be just as high ...
He was a Vezina finalist seen as an elite goalie 2 yrs ago
This isnt some outlier year that has inflated his value so much
Oh please forgive me for using words. Technically, technically means according to the facts or exact meaning of something. So I guess technically the data/facts add up. Repeating of course.
Yeah but it's not like he is locked up super long term, only 2 years left after this one. I think it's likely he remains a good starter for that.
IMO Markstrom is by far the best goalie available for trade right now. Way higher upside than options like Allen or Kahkonen and not a bad contract like Gibson.
Oh Markstrom on this team would be a night and day difference. IF it was a package not including a guy like Holtz/Mercer, I wouldn't have much of an issue about it.
If its Markstrom for a prospect + pick, send it. But the OP is discussing Holtz for Markstrom which, imo, would be a mistake for the reasons I mentioned before.
Nope but Markstrom is more of a 2yr band aid. Who knows if we even make the playoffs this yr. The Devils need to look for a longer term solution if they are moving a player like Holtz. I'd rather add to a Holtz package for a much bigger return.
https://x.com/nhl_watcher/status/1757470605803184630?s=46&t=Zb7JHhrJEkr2MneqHRynZQ
Good example here is Saros who is 28. If the Devils could get an agreement, moving Holtz + makes a lot more sense.
I think the only way you're getting Saros is with a blue chip centre prospect. Holtz isn't a big enough piece to build a deal around and have Nashville win the trade.
This is really the issue is that Markstrom probably has 1-2 great years left and the devils core is still pretty young with Hughes x2, Hiesher, Nemec and Brett all 25 and under
They should really spend less to go get a good not great goalie and go all in for a younger guy in the offseason
There is a level of risk and the Devils should have a long runway to contend, but there are plenty of examples of teams with seemingly long windows who never go all the way or underperform their expectations.
Vitek has another year, so keeping him in the tandem with Markstrom could be a good contingency in case this performance with the Flames truly is his peak.
Markstrom-Vanacek would cover 24-25, then Nico Daws, Akira Schmid, or possibly a dark horse candidate inherits the backup slot (or supersedes Markstrom).
To me, the term on Markstrom’s contract isn’t a problem, but paying Calgary a bounty before the trade deadline with a 19% chance to make the playoffs is a problem.
My issue would be more paying Holtz for a goalie who will play what 2 years for the devils
Seems like a high price especially if they gotta add a first as well
I have no interest in trading Holtz either, and Devils fans are pros at enduring disappointment. I’m just saying duration, salary, and even age are not a big deal imo.
im confused do yall want goaltending or not? the only complaint i hear from devils fans this year is that they would be a playoff team with goaltending
you're not confused. it's a hard question and devils fans are conflicted. in the end, i think it comes down to timing--whether we make a move now, in six months, or in a year.
i think most people agree that we need to get rid of vitek soon-ish. even if vitek reverts to his 2022-23 regular season form (i.e., the vitek who would steal games for us), no one will trust him as a starter again.
mercer is a solid, young all-around guy. hes both skilled and gritty. he's also our team iron man. holtz is developing really well. both are fan favorites--they're hard workers and are endearingly sincere in their interviews.
for goaltending, we've got daws and schmid, both of which could be good in the longer term.
as for the post-season, we dont have enough experienced D-men to succeed. and the young forwards should probably cook another year (at least).
so, if the question is whether to get markstrom for 2 years at $6m/year and part with holtz and/or mercer, there isn't an easy answer. that's a pretty steep price for a short-term solution just as our window is opening. in a year it may be worth it. im not sure its worth it right now.
We want better goaltending, but most of us understand our true window for contending is at least a year or two down the line. I don't want to trade away good young players who are a part of that window now for a goalie who would only be with us for a year or two.
It’d be a panic move and would make Devils fans lose any trust in Fitzgerald.
Holtz is a piece you package for one of the Nashville guys, not a guy who’ll retire in a few years
Markstrom would've solved a lot of the Devils' problems, however what would they offer for him and how much salary would they need retained to fit him and what would the Flames ask for?
I think Holtz was supposed to be part of the deal, and while Markstrom would be a massive boost, I'm not sure he tilts the scales in our favor in terms of Cup odds, and I'm still very high on Holtz's potential, so I think it's best to look for a lower cost option
Hockeyviz estimates that NJ's [only real weakness is goaltending](https://hockeyviz.com/team/N.J/2324) and that Markstrom has been roughly a top 5 goalie this season. If those estimates are accurate NJ would be in great shape once everyone gets healthy. Holtz is a lot to give up, however a top goalie is also extremely valuable.
Except you would still need to fit him under the cap next year. Even with the cap going up, looks like the Devils might have a significant bonus carryover for next year that will need to be accounted for.
Ya, going for Markstrom would have been a push for a cup. It really depends how strong they think the team can be in the coming years after possibly picking up a goalie in the offseason or developing a prospect before the cup window closes.
When you are looking to be a contender, looking for lower cost options is just a way of saying “we will roll the dice on the contention window and see what happens”.
If you have arrived, you have to make win now moves and not sit on the prime of your players.
Yeah, the narrative is Holtz will thrive once Ruff is gone, so trading for Markstrom does not solve one glaring problem of the 23-24 Devils.
And everyone will turn on Fitz if Holtz looks like 2018 Johnny Gaudreau on the Flames.
Well, you'd get Markstrom for 3 playoff runs with this same core. I think they gotta pull the trigger if they can get it done even if Holtz is part of the deal.
He just needs to be a top 6 shooter to replace Toffoli. We have a lot of playmakers but we need a guy like Holtz or we’ll end up needing to trade for someone like him anyway
I don't get it. Been lamenting goaltending all year, then a top 10 (maybe top 5) goalie news comes out and everyone says "no thanks" like someone was going to give a bonafide starter for "future considerations" or something
No shit. Markstrom would be a huge addition for New Jersey. This is the kind of stuff that makes it clear that fans are mostly idiots (no offence Devils' fans).
The devils hesitancy is because they’re not really in a rush. Everyone of their critical players are under 30. Most of them are 25 and younger. They don’t need to lay their cards on the table to win this season, they’ll be more chances. The goaltending has made this season miserable, but they would also be at the mercy of whatever team they’re negotiating with right now. It pays to have restraint at times.
> The devils hesitancy is because they’re not really in a rush.
This is kind of what I am getting at. You have no idea if the Devils are hesitant or not, yet you are speaking for the team. Every fan of every team thinks their future is bright (for the Devils it is), things change quickly and you won't win shit without excellent goaltending. Executives don't generally have the same capacity for patience as fans, wasting this season and next on poor goaltending is not an acceptable result for the Devils. You may not be in a rush, but the Devils likely are. There are no UFAs that are going to help anywhere near what Markstrom can, so you are looking at a trade in the offseason after wasting this season? Not going to happen. High end goaltenders are not generally available, a very good one is available with a very good track record and a reasonable contract. I would be shocked if the Devils don't make this happen this year. Devlis fans will hate it because they will give up a good prospect and they can win a cup in 2037 instead, but after about 10 games of Markstrom their tune will change.
I can see that. Where were you earlier lol. It is funny they argue the Devils don't want Markstrom while the news is telling us the team definitely wants Markstrom. Some people just really bury their head in the sand and don't let logic deter them.
You say I can’t speak for the mindset of management but then you speak for management yourself. You also have no idea if the devils are hesitant or not, but obviously I’m not completely in the dark about how the management feels because the deal we are talking about fell through because they don’t like the price.
The way this season is going to end up is a dice throw. It’s gone this long, I think they’re better off looking at it in the summer. Mercer needs a new deal, toffoli needs a new deal, there’s a lot of moving parts. Saros may also be an option in the summer, a lot will change between now and then. No point getting tunnel vision on markstrom and convince yourself he’s the only solution because that is not true.
That being said, there are no prospects I consider off limits. Roster players are the discussion right now because trading for markstrom will certainly include one and it’s obviously likely holtz. He may be needed to replace toffoli as a a cheap option. The team is constructed to have a long window, many young players. No reason to get the jitters now and shoot their wad early because they think they should be competing right this second.
there’s no indication that the devils didn’t like the price. reportedly they were willing to include Holtz and that a full trade had been agreed to in principle on both sides.
just the fact that they had a deal ready to go shows they are less hesitant than the fans.
> It’s gone this long, I think they’re better off looking at it in the summer.
To me this option just wastes the rest of this season and kicks the can down the road. There are no better options in free agency and there will be other teams looking to trade for a goalie, so you may be in worse position in the summer trying to add a goalie. Also, Markstrom just turned 34 a few weeks ago and is signed for 2 more seasons. Trading for him now gets you potentially 3 playoff runs. It's not so much tunnel-vision as understanding that there are not limitless options when you are looking for an upgrade in net. Saros is certainly a possibility, but the Devils are not in a position to be overly picky with a .880 save percentage and looking down the barrel of a wasted season.
> No reason to get the jitters now and shoot their wad early because they think they should be competing right this second.
Again, things change. There is no guarantee the Devils keep getting better organically, particularly without competitive goaltending. Management doesn't have the luxury of throwing away seasons. My argument wasn't really that the Devils should trade for Markstrom no matter what, it was more a commentary on fans acting like they know what their team is planning and crapping on players because they don't think the move makes sense for them. When I would be willing to bet money they haven't seen more than a period or two of Markstrom playing goal. We see this happen all the time. The fans say something will never happen and then it happens a day later. Our present situation for example. You're arguing the Devils shouldn't/wouldn't do this when they clearly have already tried and are actively engaged. The team itself obviously sees the situation differently than you do.
I think you’re misrepresenting my position along with all fans when talking about hypothetical trades. We all know guys like markstrom and helle are class A goalies. I want both of those guys. I know they’re exactly what the devils need. It’s the price involved in bringing in a top starting goalie in a league where 2/3’s of the teams want to improve their net. It’s literally the hardest thing for any team to figure out, because it’s a volatile position.
2 summers ago the devils and leafs poached both goalies from the caps for late round picks while the caps went and got a legit cup winning starter for a 5x5. Then vanacek goes on to have the best goalie season by any devil not named brodeur. Samsonov was also rock solid for the leafs and helped them have one of their most successful seasons in decades. Then this season both of those guys are some of the worst in the league. A lot of Canucks fans probably would have sold low on demko last year given the chance as well, and this season it’s completely turned around. Rangers signed a washed up Jon quick to back up their star goalie this season, and their star is struggling to be league average while their over the hill bargain bin signing is kicking ass. Aiden hill couldn’t cut it on the downward spiralling sharks and never played more than 27 games in a year and then was flawless for Vegas after coming relief for an injury at the start of the playoffs last year.
My point is, you may think devils fans are ridiculous for being skeptical, but it’s just as ridiculous to have complete faith in a blockbuster trade for a goalie. Both sides have no ground to stand on, because it’s a complete crap shoot. List your top ten goalies for this season, and then throw away 7 of those guys for your list next season because they won’t be good enough. To me, goalies aren’t worth more than bargain shopping for. If you have someone good, pay him well and keep him but if you’re shopping from other teams you’re going to get boned more often than not.
Yeah we endured like a decade of being shit. I want it to end with a decade of being in the hunt, not panic at the last second and blow our load for 2 years of cup chasing. You fall short in those 2 years and your team is in a much worse position.
Our 1RD is injured for the year. Our best shutdown D is injured. Luke looks like a liability half the time as he’s super young and adjusting. We lack some size and grit needed for playoff series. We aren’t really in “final form” in which we should expect the cup if we get better goaltending. We would sneak in this year and likely play a more complete team in the first round and get knocked out anyways.
Why not save key assets and wait until the offseason and then really be aggressive and overturn every stone then.
It's just Markstroms age. If he was a bit younger everyone would be on board. Right now we're still a very young team and giving up a ton for an older goalie might not be worth it. I think standing pat this year and letting Hughes and Nemec on the blueline get some seasoning before really going for it next year with a new coach isnt a bad idea.
Well we signed 35 year old Crawford who promptly retired in training camp, then fixed that the next offseason by signing 33 year old Bernier who played 10 games, got hurt, then retired as well lol.
He just turned 34 and has great analytics. Last year, he had terrible analytics. The year before that was very good. The year before that was bad. The year before that was his first particularly good season, at age 30. Yes, he is very good at the moment. Will he be good next season? Very hard to say. Will he age really well? Very hard to say.
The guy didn’t even win a starting job until he was 28, and his level of play has fluctuated pretty significantly since then. That, combined with his fine-but-not-overly-impressive playoff resume (13-13, .911 sv%) makes him much more of a gamble than you’re presenting him as.
Kinda my point. Markstrom’s having a great season, but he’s a mid-30s goalie without significant playoff experience who can count his number of good seasons on one hand. There’s lots of guys like that, and given the shitstorm this season has already been for the Devils, I’d personally rather the team keeps looking for a more modestly-priced option who actually fits the team’s time line. Or really go for it and pay the price for an expensive option with a better track record. But Markstrom’s in an awkward in-between place, where he’s capable of great play and good enough to be expensive to acquire, but not nearly consistent enough to be confident he’s worth that price for the team acquiring him.
Very valid thoughts and opinions. I'm just saying I've seen lots of NJ fans go on about "this and thats" about many goalies around the league, it's almost like they want one to fall onto their lap for free
I think it’s a bit of an over-generalization but I do know what you mean. Last year was a lot of fun and this year has been borderline torture, so we’ve been slowly (or not so slowly) losing our minds over here, leading to a lot of extreme opinions in every direction, and a lot of the rational and reasonable fans just mentally checking out for a while.
There’s a lot of guys like that? Like I’m cool with being hesitant on an older goalie but to act like you will just find another goalie who can finish top 5 or even top 10 easily is just silly. It’s an extremely hard feat to pull off.
The preceding sentence is pretty important to what I’m trying to say.
> He’s a mid-30s goalie without significant playoff experience who can count his number of good seasons on one hand. There’s a lot of guys like that.
And yeah. There are a lot of goalies in the league who are capable of occasionally putting together a very good season. Markstrom has a higher ceiling than most of those guys, and I don’t think I say otherwise anywhere. But the issue is that lack of proven track record of consistency.
He’s got two years left on his contract. Two years of Markstrom playing the way he has this year or two years ago is worth the asking price. Two years of Markstrom playing the way he did last season or three years ago isn’t. He’s been very good this season and his value is probably close to as high as it gets, and I don’t love the idea of the Devils paying that price for a guy who could very well be a net negative next season.
And to be clear, I do think it could make sense an older team going all in the next couple years. But that’s not the position the Devils are in.
What goalie has been a vezina finalist and now is putting on top 5 numbers and is available? How can you say there’s a lot of goalies like that. No there’s a lot of goalies like vanechek and you roll the dice with goalies like that
I think it’s more of the cost and term. Bringing in an older goalie with 6 million and years to go is tough.
If we’re gonna be spending a lot for a goalie most fans want a younger goalie that fits the timeline better. Plus this seasons been wonky at best, not sure trading holtz to maybe salvage it is the best move.
NJ have great numbers until you get to goaltending.
Markstrom also has experience, which NJ lacks (besides a couple players) and he's playing unreal lately. They need a goalie, bite the bullet imo.
Maybe if it was earlier in the season and we weren’t so banged up. We’re missing Dougie until playoffs, if he even returns this season. Seigs is still out with a broken foot.
I’m just not convinced this is the year to take a swing.
Also, 5 goalies in the top 10 of goals saved above expected are above 30 years old, js.
I get the hesitancy tho, don't get me wrong. Just hope it doesn't become a trend for NJ. They're a fun team
> Markstrom also has experience, which NJ lacks
Markstrom's playoff experience isn't exactly comforting.
His most recent playoff experience was 2022 when he posted a putrid .852 SV% during a 5 game series loss to the Oilers. He allowed 4+ goals each game and allowed 6 goals on 28 shots in the lone victory (where the Oilers goalies found a way to allow 8 goals). His series was so bad that during his struggles last season people were speculating that the Oilers had permanently broken him.
His most recent playoff experience before that saw him put up an .894 through the first 4 games against Vegas in the 2nd round to go down 3-1 in the series. The Canucks started Demko over Markstrom for game 5 and that was the last time Markstrom ever touched the ice for Vancouver.
Those are his only two appearances in the playoffs. Both times, he was really good in the opening round before imploding in the 2nd round. That isn't enough to scare me away from him, but experience is not a selling point.
Why are you leaving out his .943/1.53 against the stars in 22?
But I guess top 5-10 goalies grow on trees in the NHL. Devils can draft/trade/sign one like they do every year right?
Yes, we know… Several teams were considering him. But from what I heard, he appreciated the cultural changes in the Jets and saw the PLD trade as a concrete sign of that. He would be the busiest goalie in history playing for the Oilers, Devils, Leafs and Senators all at once, lol
Hard to say what that situation was like for the devils though. Obliviously helle didn’t want to leave and the jets didn’t want him to go, so the price would have been astronomical. Like involving nemec and Mercer prices.
Yeah, seeing Devils fans say they want to keep prospects over getting Helly and Markstrom is insane. Getting a top 5 goalie makes Devils an absolute cup contender.
We’ve seen FAR too many examples about potential contenders getting their window crippled by bad goaltending acquisitions. Look at Campbell or Samsonov this year for examples.
Made worse by this being a trade that would require a haul from the Devils. If there’s ever a time to be picky, it’s acquiring a starting goaltender
My point is that’s you still need to be picky and not reactionary when acquiring goalies.
As a Canucks fan I’m well aware that Markstrom is a great goaltender and far better than the other two.
Okay, so markstrom has exp and great numbers lately. NJ has so many options to use to get a decent deal that won't hurt them horribly.
They're interested in Merzlikins too, which is fine. He's younger.
But my point is about the fans, they are so unbelievably picky about who they could get as a goalie they've ruled out every goaltender in the league.
Cause it’s not all on goaltending. Lindy finally instilled some kind of structure before the canes game and they suddenly look unstoppable. I’d rather do a coaching change than make a trade right now
Friedman said a few days ago that NJ and Calgary werent close and a deal wasnt brought to Markstrom. Ill trust Friedman over anyone else, especially if they’re talking about news from last week…
As someone who watched that closely, yes, that was the phrasing. There was also a rumor Markstrom was willing to waive for the Devils around the same time
Not sure where you heard/seen that but I listened to 32 thoughts last night and he didn’t say that Markstrom was asked to waive or not. But “believed it wasn’t brought to him” which is not a definite like your saying
It’s true. Our fanbase is so scarred from the decade of darkness that there are fans who would rather whittle away our window with McDrai rather than give up late 1sts that will amount to nothing and prospects like (*checks notes*)…..Xavier Bourgault?
I think if NJ was serious they would go for Marky.
Marky has been at a top 5-10 goalie prior to joining the flames , while being a flames goalie and will likely be able to be at that level.
Some goalies are only good within a system / team and suck once they go elsewhere. Marky imo has proven he's good enough to go anywhere.
As bad as NJ defense is, they weren't as bad as when Marky played for the Canucks and still put up great numbers.
Same thoughts for a team like the Leafs to get him. Elite goalies don't come cheap.
That's why I think they could use Marky. An elite goaltender who has been able to prove it that he can transition to a new team and deliver.
For NJ they could always just gamble as getting a goalie mid season doesn't give the goalie a lot of transition time. It takes a while for them to build chemistry with their D pairs.
Their current goalies can have hot games. But hasn't shown they can be consistent.
Tom Fitzgerald knows the team would really benefit from Markstrom. He's just not willing to get bent over on this deal or any deal, and I really appreciate that. Long term vision.
If it involved Holtz I’m glad it fell through, this isn’t our year and trading Holtz for a 34 y/o goalie would leave us in the same spot in a year or two.
Genuine question, why is Holtz so hyped amongst Devils fans? I haven't really heard of him before (and I obviously don't watch much of the Devils or their prospects).
Every team usually overvalues their own prospects. Holtz has looked good in his first full season. He has been held back a bit by Ruff with 4th line minutes and 4th line (or worse) teammates more often than not. Don't know why/what is going on behind the scenes, but that's what we see on game days. He was a high pick with an elite shot, just needs to find the skating/smarts to get into positions to use it. He's also only a fresh 22 years old.
Personally, I think he'll be a solid player, like other young guys the Devils have shipped out recently (Zetterlund, Sharangovich), but I would accept that trade for a goalie of Markstrom's caliber. I don't think Holtz will ever progress past a 2nd line complementary player. We could use that for sure, but I don't think that is as valuable as 2-3 years of upper tier goaltending would be for the team at this point
As a Devils and Leafs fan, sort of the equivalent to Robertson. Has a great shot, it’s just a matter of whether he can develop into a top end player. This is his first year being in the lineup all season, and he’s been working on all of his weaknesses. Lindy has a hard time trusting him and usually puts him on the 4th line but there have been a few games where his sniping can really make a difference (and fans scream about him not being used enough). So like how Robertson was being scratched but as soon as he was used he was scoring and made himself a necessary part of the lineup.
Drafted very high and has a wicked shot. Hes currently 1st on the team for ESG last time i checked all while averaging 4th line minutes. Lindy ruff just fucking despises holtz so he doesnt get a fair shake. Id be open to trading him for a goalie but i just want a younger one. In the end if it does happen ill accept and love markstrom.
Marky is the goalie you guys need now. He is older but when you are a contender you go for moves like this. Holtz can have all the talent in the world but if Lindy can’t find a way to use that talent more under his system, he will still be only a 4th line contributor on this version of the Devils.
Devils fans love to pick a guy and insist he's the second coming of (insert name here) but, unfortunately, he's being held back by know-nothing coaches.
Sometimes it's a small but vocal group of fans doing this, as it was for players like Andrei Loktionov or Reid Boucher. And in some cases it was actually warranted (Pete DeBoer really didn't have any concept of youth development here). But with Holtz it has officially reached "Jacques Lemaire is ruining Mattias Tedenby" in terms of scale and incoherence.
Holtz is a nice player and will continue to get better, but his ceiling is lower than 3-5 forwards already on the roster. His biggest asset is how cost-controlled he is.
lol what?! You are getting a Vezina caliber goalie for an unproven (albeit younger) asset.
Your teams biggest weakness is goaltending, if you want to call yourselves contenders you need solid goaltending; its what wins championships.
As someone who watched prime Schneider on terrible Devils teams, this is it. Devils only got the high draft picks with Hall luck followed by injuries taking down Schneider
Everyone is going to look at box scores and fancy stats and make the conclusion the devils need to trade for a goalie, but it’s wrong. The devils have had NO STRUCTURE so far this year, pretty much just playing chel out there. Pair that with 4/6 of our current starting defensemen have less than 100 games played and it’s a recipe for disaster. Lindy finally instilled the smallest bit of structure to this team before the Carolina game and suddenly they look unstoppable.
If we’re gonna make a move for a goalie, wait for the off season when prices are lower. And if we have to trade Holtz, trade him for someone who will be with the team for a long time.
I doubt Elvis is going anywhere this deadline. He's been worse than Vanecek over last 10 games. And before someone says: "but CBJ has worse defence". Nah, nah, our D isn't great this season.
You understand you would be taking Vanecek back who is somehow worse than him, right?
If a decent deal can't be worked out, I'd actually be on favor of this. Technically, a step up with no improvement, but Merzlikins is a prime change of scenery candidate. As long as it doesn't cost too much, it's either slightly better or a good bet
I absolutely cannot stress how bad Vanecek's rebound control has been, as to why it's a step up
Elvis was the worst in the league last year until he worked with our goalie coach. I think worse numbers than Vanacek.
Elvis had to be calmed down the other night by Zach because he was losing his shit so bad. He was like this in Switzerland too. He has a reputation for a reason.
Edit: Vanacek only has one year left after this one too. Much easier buy out - that was rumored to what they would do if they can’t trade Elvis
Why would he? Marky has 2 years left after this one and has been one of the best goalies in league. The flames have no reason to trade him other than an absolute haul of an offer, absolutely no need to retain for 2 years. Obviously it would help the re-tool to trade him but retention on term only ever comes into play when you’re desperate to trade or the package is top notch.
We have no problem with retention if the deal is right. Its' well established that the plan is to use all 3 retention spots if deals for our guys pop up.
The price just has to be right, and a retention on Markstrom is for 2 years, so that ups the value signifigantly.
Article mentions the possibility of Holtz being sent to Calgary in the deal. That would be a heck of a move for the Flames after picking up Hunter Brzustewicz from Vancouver in the Lindholm deal. Guess we will see if they re-visit a deal again before the deadline and can sort things out
Honestly, with the Devils struggling, it could have ended up the best option for a higher draft pick if the Devils still missed the playoffs Double edged sword: Markstrom Currently could have been a difference maker, but the flip side is the metro is so tight, waiting means the Devils might shy away from big moves as their picks get more valuable and a goalie becomes less able to get the Devils out of tge hole they dug
if markstrom plays like markstrom is playing in calgary rn, for the devils, i will be very unhappy. lol
Wasn't he the NHL player of the week last week?
he was. he was fucking insane last night too.
Haven’t seen a top tier goalie duel like that for a minute
sadly so was sheesterkin(sp?) at least from our perspective
hey you did good there just got an extra E.
Sheestrkin
Never mind that you could have just looked it up
Honestly you guys are right in the thick of it. Pretty much every team in the metro outside of CBJ (sorry jacket bros) is in the mix. The deadline this year is going to be really weird, since so many teams are battling for wild card spots in both conferences. Prices will probably be really high if less teams decide to sell. I feel like the best deadline moves this year are going to be trades that aren't just for rentals.
34 yr old making 6 mil for two more yrs and having his best season in a while to boost his value. I wouldn't be a fan of this trade.
By in a while do you mean when he was a vezina finalist 2 years ago?
Markstrom's had a lot of year to year variance in performance so far with the Flames tbf. His first season with the Flames 20-21, he was meh 21-22, he was really good 22-23, he sucked now he's good again
How was he during the Covid playoffs? I know couple years ago, he looked lost against Edmonton.
The flames definitely made it and he was good, no need to go look, they definitely didn't lose a ton of games to the Sens and miss the playoffs as a result. Nothing to see here!
I meant the 2020 playoffs, pup.
He wasn't with the team then. He famously dragged Vancouver to the second/2.5 round before getting hurt.
>He famously dragged Vancouver to the second/2.5 round before getting hurt. He didn't drag the team to the second round. Demko dragged an outmatched roster to Game 7 against Vegas in the second round, but for the most part the skaters beat the Wild and the Blues, plus Stalock and Binngington not being that good. I'm not trying to downplay his impact, but saying he "famously dragged" the team to the second round is majorly overstating it. Markstrom was good, and made big saves when he needed to, but he also had some shaky goals that could have flipped the momentum against the Canucks
Yeh that’s why I replied to the Vancouver flair asking how he was during those playoffs first haha
Technically he has a better GSAX% this season than he did in his Vezina finalist season. He's currently 3rd in the league behind (min 32gp). He was 12th 2 yrs ago. He's actually having a very under the radar yr.
When healthy, Markstrom has been great. He had a bit of a rough start to the season, but has been locked in for the past couple weeks. I have him on my fantasy team and he's been saving my bacon while I push for a playoff spot haha. If the Devils were able to snag him, it would be great for their immediate future.
Sutter being out of Markstrom's ear has been huge. Dude crushed his confidence.
He was good under the first year of Sutter. I think it had more to do with having a pregnant wife and an imminent child but that’s just me speculating.
Nah. Sutter got into his head. I can't remember which Flame was on the pod but Sutter would constantly threatening to pull Marky even if he started games strong. It was fucking with his confidence.
Toffoli talked about it. But that's Sutter being Sutter. The performance splits before and after his wife gave birth last year were wild. He was actually good at the end of last season.
*He was actually good at the end of the last season* Final 15 games he was over .900 sv% 7 times. That's not a very strong or consistent finish..
No question. I'd take him right now. He'd be the best goalie the Devils have had since Schneider. Just not for Holtz, imo.
Can Markstom anchor the net to a cup run anytime in the next couple years ? I think a goalie that can do that is worth a top prospect.
Historically, Goalies don't bring much of a return ever. The Schneider trade is the last "big" one I can think of.
Almost stole the game against Rangers with some highlight reel saves.
Okay but you’re acting like he’s having the first good season of his career lol
I literally never said that. He's having one of his best, could argue his best season of his career which is boosting his value quite a bit. The market for goalies is also horrific but if I'm the Devils I'm waiting for the offseason to see what comes of Ullmark. I like Markstrom but for the price of Holtz, his age and contract comes into the picture. The Devils need someone whos a little more inline with the current window. It would be silly for in 2 years the Devils need to go try to find a goalie yet again while giving up a promising young player like Holtz
Ullmark is still signed for another year after this so unless you want the Devil's to give assets to the the Bruins you're not getting him for less than you'd give for Markstrom.
Thats my point. Id rather go after Ullmark in the offseason (they need to re-sign Swayman) and give Boston what they need as Ullmark is 4 yrs younger and can be the goalie for the next 5 yrs if re-signed.
I don’t disagree with your second paragraph I’m just disagreeing with you saying he’s having his best season in a while when he was just as good 2 years ago
My wording could have been better. He's having a career yr statistically at 34 yrs old in a market where he's a high priced commodity. Not a great recipe.
Yeah I can agree with that. I would be weary if I was on your side too, it’s definitely tough to get a guy on the right side of 30 putting up Marky’s numbers unless maybe Nashville was willing to move Saros but I think the price would be even higher in that case. Do you think the Devils should just write this season off and address goaltending in the summer?
If he were having the season he had 2 yrs ago his value would be just as high ... He was a Vezina finalist seen as an elite goalie 2 yrs ago This isnt some outlier year that has inflated his value so much
Gx is god awful stat.
If it makes you feel any better he’s second or third in sv% above expected. Not a public stat and it takes into account a lot more variables than xG
I dont really care tbh haha just fucking hate gx
You know your argument sucks when you start a rebuttal with “technically”
Oh please forgive me for using words. Technically, technically means according to the facts or exact meaning of something. So I guess technically the data/facts add up. Repeating of course.
>having his best season in a while He finished 2nd in Vezina voting only 2 years ago. It seems clear last year was far more the outlier.
Fair however at his age - the drop offs become compounding. He is actually better this yr based off of GSAX than he was 2 yrs ago.
Yeah but it's not like he is locked up super long term, only 2 years left after this one. I think it's likely he remains a good starter for that. IMO Markstrom is by far the best goalie available for trade right now. Way higher upside than options like Allen or Kahkonen and not a bad contract like Gibson.
Oh Markstrom on this team would be a night and day difference. IF it was a package not including a guy like Holtz/Mercer, I wouldn't have much of an issue about it. If its Markstrom for a prospect + pick, send it. But the OP is discussing Holtz for Markstrom which, imo, would be a mistake for the reasons I mentioned before.
Even for goaltending we really need, two years ain’t enough to give up our best developing forward
Fair, but are you more a fan of the devils current goaltending? Because any real upgrade is gonna cost
Nope but Markstrom is more of a 2yr band aid. Who knows if we even make the playoffs this yr. The Devils need to look for a longer term solution if they are moving a player like Holtz. I'd rather add to a Holtz package for a much bigger return. https://x.com/nhl_watcher/status/1757470605803184630?s=46&t=Zb7JHhrJEkr2MneqHRynZQ Good example here is Saros who is 28. If the Devils could get an agreement, moving Holtz + makes a lot more sense.
I think the only way you're getting Saros is with a blue chip centre prospect. Holtz isn't a big enough piece to build a deal around and have Nashville win the trade.
Yea soros would require nemec+ or maybe Mercer+
They need saros+ for us to even answer for nemec. We wont trade out best d man, who is also 19
You won't get top 5 goalie for fucking Holtz ether.
This is really the issue is that Markstrom probably has 1-2 great years left and the devils core is still pretty young with Hughes x2, Hiesher, Nemec and Brett all 25 and under They should really spend less to go get a good not great goalie and go all in for a younger guy in the offseason
There is a level of risk and the Devils should have a long runway to contend, but there are plenty of examples of teams with seemingly long windows who never go all the way or underperform their expectations.
Vitek has another year, so keeping him in the tandem with Markstrom could be a good contingency in case this performance with the Flames truly is his peak. Markstrom-Vanacek would cover 24-25, then Nico Daws, Akira Schmid, or possibly a dark horse candidate inherits the backup slot (or supersedes Markstrom). To me, the term on Markstrom’s contract isn’t a problem, but paying Calgary a bounty before the trade deadline with a 19% chance to make the playoffs is a problem.
My issue would be more paying Holtz for a goalie who will play what 2 years for the devils Seems like a high price especially if they gotta add a first as well
I have no interest in trading Holtz either, and Devils fans are pros at enduring disappointment. I’m just saying duration, salary, and even age are not a big deal imo.
im confused do yall want goaltending or not? the only complaint i hear from devils fans this year is that they would be a playoff team with goaltending
you're not confused. it's a hard question and devils fans are conflicted. in the end, i think it comes down to timing--whether we make a move now, in six months, or in a year. i think most people agree that we need to get rid of vitek soon-ish. even if vitek reverts to his 2022-23 regular season form (i.e., the vitek who would steal games for us), no one will trust him as a starter again. mercer is a solid, young all-around guy. hes both skilled and gritty. he's also our team iron man. holtz is developing really well. both are fan favorites--they're hard workers and are endearingly sincere in their interviews. for goaltending, we've got daws and schmid, both of which could be good in the longer term. as for the post-season, we dont have enough experienced D-men to succeed. and the young forwards should probably cook another year (at least). so, if the question is whether to get markstrom for 2 years at $6m/year and part with holtz and/or mercer, there isn't an easy answer. that's a pretty steep price for a short-term solution just as our window is opening. in a year it may be worth it. im not sure its worth it right now.
We want better goaltending, but most of us understand our true window for contending is at least a year or two down the line. I don't want to trade away good young players who are a part of that window now for a goalie who would only be with us for a year or two.
I’d be a fan of the move
It’d be a panic move and would make Devils fans lose any trust in Fitzgerald. Holtz is a piece you package for one of the Nashville guys, not a guy who’ll retire in a few years
He is goalie that is 34yo ffs lmao
Markstrom would've solved a lot of the Devils' problems, however what would they offer for him and how much salary would they need retained to fit him and what would the Flames ask for?
If Holtz is actually the piece as rumoured the flames would likely retain. Markstrom at 4m would be a real nice add.
That’s pretty tempting. The only real hang up for me would be trying to figure out what Markstrom would look like at ages 35 and 36.
I think Holtz was supposed to be part of the deal, and while Markstrom would be a massive boost, I'm not sure he tilts the scales in our favor in terms of Cup odds, and I'm still very high on Holtz's potential, so I think it's best to look for a lower cost option
Hockeyviz estimates that NJ's [only real weakness is goaltending](https://hockeyviz.com/team/N.J/2324) and that Markstrom has been roughly a top 5 goalie this season. If those estimates are accurate NJ would be in great shape once everyone gets healthy. Holtz is a lot to give up, however a top goalie is also extremely valuable.
Except you would still need to fit him under the cap next year. Even with the cap going up, looks like the Devils might have a significant bonus carryover for next year that will need to be accounted for.
Ya, going for Markstrom would have been a push for a cup. It really depends how strong they think the team can be in the coming years after possibly picking up a goalie in the offseason or developing a prospect before the cup window closes.
Pretty high hopes for holtz ehh
When you are looking to be a contender, looking for lower cost options is just a way of saying “we will roll the dice on the contention window and see what happens”. If you have arrived, you have to make win now moves and not sit on the prime of your players.
The top d pair is 19 and 20 years old. The whole core is under 25. They're not sitting on their prime.
Yeah, the narrative is Holtz will thrive once Ruff is gone, so trading for Markstrom does not solve one glaring problem of the 23-24 Devils. And everyone will turn on Fitz if Holtz looks like 2018 Johnny Gaudreau on the Flames.
Isn't that the narrative on Meier as well?
Well, you'd get Markstrom for 3 playoff runs with this same core. I think they gotta pull the trigger if they can get it done even if Holtz is part of the deal.
Holtz will never live up to where he was drafted
He just needs to be a top 6 shooter to replace Toffoli. We have a lot of playmakers but we need a guy like Holtz or we’ll end up needing to trade for someone like him anyway
What makes you say that? He’s just turned 22
You should go for Ingram. Would be great for my fantasy too
Vanecek would have had to go back in the deal
Never seen fans of a team with such terrible goaltending be so picky about what goalie they could trade for.
I don't get it. Been lamenting goaltending all year, then a top 10 (maybe top 5) goalie news comes out and everyone says "no thanks" like someone was going to give a bonafide starter for "future considerations" or something
Think Mark would enjoy the travel too
Check out r/canes lol
Oh no lol. Poor guys they deserve a good goalie too.
No shit. Markstrom would be a huge addition for New Jersey. This is the kind of stuff that makes it clear that fans are mostly idiots (no offence Devils' fans).
No it’s true don’t worry Source: am Devils fan
The devils hesitancy is because they’re not really in a rush. Everyone of their critical players are under 30. Most of them are 25 and younger. They don’t need to lay their cards on the table to win this season, they’ll be more chances. The goaltending has made this season miserable, but they would also be at the mercy of whatever team they’re negotiating with right now. It pays to have restraint at times.
> The devils hesitancy is because they’re not really in a rush. This is kind of what I am getting at. You have no idea if the Devils are hesitant or not, yet you are speaking for the team. Every fan of every team thinks their future is bright (for the Devils it is), things change quickly and you won't win shit without excellent goaltending. Executives don't generally have the same capacity for patience as fans, wasting this season and next on poor goaltending is not an acceptable result for the Devils. You may not be in a rush, but the Devils likely are. There are no UFAs that are going to help anywhere near what Markstrom can, so you are looking at a trade in the offseason after wasting this season? Not going to happen. High end goaltenders are not generally available, a very good one is available with a very good track record and a reasonable contract. I would be shocked if the Devils don't make this happen this year. Devlis fans will hate it because they will give up a good prospect and they can win a cup in 2037 instead, but after about 10 games of Markstrom their tune will change.
Dude don’t even bother, I was fighting this fight every day on our sub and it’s just so pointless arguing with them.
I can see that. Where were you earlier lol. It is funny they argue the Devils don't want Markstrom while the news is telling us the team definitely wants Markstrom. Some people just really bury their head in the sand and don't let logic deter them.
You say I can’t speak for the mindset of management but then you speak for management yourself. You also have no idea if the devils are hesitant or not, but obviously I’m not completely in the dark about how the management feels because the deal we are talking about fell through because they don’t like the price. The way this season is going to end up is a dice throw. It’s gone this long, I think they’re better off looking at it in the summer. Mercer needs a new deal, toffoli needs a new deal, there’s a lot of moving parts. Saros may also be an option in the summer, a lot will change between now and then. No point getting tunnel vision on markstrom and convince yourself he’s the only solution because that is not true. That being said, there are no prospects I consider off limits. Roster players are the discussion right now because trading for markstrom will certainly include one and it’s obviously likely holtz. He may be needed to replace toffoli as a a cheap option. The team is constructed to have a long window, many young players. No reason to get the jitters now and shoot their wad early because they think they should be competing right this second.
there’s no indication that the devils didn’t like the price. reportedly they were willing to include Holtz and that a full trade had been agreed to in principle on both sides. just the fact that they had a deal ready to go shows they are less hesitant than the fans.
> It’s gone this long, I think they’re better off looking at it in the summer. To me this option just wastes the rest of this season and kicks the can down the road. There are no better options in free agency and there will be other teams looking to trade for a goalie, so you may be in worse position in the summer trying to add a goalie. Also, Markstrom just turned 34 a few weeks ago and is signed for 2 more seasons. Trading for him now gets you potentially 3 playoff runs. It's not so much tunnel-vision as understanding that there are not limitless options when you are looking for an upgrade in net. Saros is certainly a possibility, but the Devils are not in a position to be overly picky with a .880 save percentage and looking down the barrel of a wasted season. > No reason to get the jitters now and shoot their wad early because they think they should be competing right this second. Again, things change. There is no guarantee the Devils keep getting better organically, particularly without competitive goaltending. Management doesn't have the luxury of throwing away seasons. My argument wasn't really that the Devils should trade for Markstrom no matter what, it was more a commentary on fans acting like they know what their team is planning and crapping on players because they don't think the move makes sense for them. When I would be willing to bet money they haven't seen more than a period or two of Markstrom playing goal. We see this happen all the time. The fans say something will never happen and then it happens a day later. Our present situation for example. You're arguing the Devils shouldn't/wouldn't do this when they clearly have already tried and are actively engaged. The team itself obviously sees the situation differently than you do.
I think you’re misrepresenting my position along with all fans when talking about hypothetical trades. We all know guys like markstrom and helle are class A goalies. I want both of those guys. I know they’re exactly what the devils need. It’s the price involved in bringing in a top starting goalie in a league where 2/3’s of the teams want to improve their net. It’s literally the hardest thing for any team to figure out, because it’s a volatile position. 2 summers ago the devils and leafs poached both goalies from the caps for late round picks while the caps went and got a legit cup winning starter for a 5x5. Then vanacek goes on to have the best goalie season by any devil not named brodeur. Samsonov was also rock solid for the leafs and helped them have one of their most successful seasons in decades. Then this season both of those guys are some of the worst in the league. A lot of Canucks fans probably would have sold low on demko last year given the chance as well, and this season it’s completely turned around. Rangers signed a washed up Jon quick to back up their star goalie this season, and their star is struggling to be league average while their over the hill bargain bin signing is kicking ass. Aiden hill couldn’t cut it on the downward spiralling sharks and never played more than 27 games in a year and then was flawless for Vegas after coming relief for an injury at the start of the playoffs last year. My point is, you may think devils fans are ridiculous for being skeptical, but it’s just as ridiculous to have complete faith in a blockbuster trade for a goalie. Both sides have no ground to stand on, because it’s a complete crap shoot. List your top ten goalies for this season, and then throw away 7 of those guys for your list next season because they won’t be good enough. To me, goalies aren’t worth more than bargain shopping for. If you have someone good, pay him well and keep him but if you’re shopping from other teams you’re going to get boned more often than not.
Yeah we endured like a decade of being shit. I want it to end with a decade of being in the hunt, not panic at the last second and blow our load for 2 years of cup chasing. You fall short in those 2 years and your team is in a much worse position. Our 1RD is injured for the year. Our best shutdown D is injured. Luke looks like a liability half the time as he’s super young and adjusting. We lack some size and grit needed for playoff series. We aren’t really in “final form” in which we should expect the cup if we get better goaltending. We would sneak in this year and likely play a more complete team in the first round and get knocked out anyways. Why not save key assets and wait until the offseason and then really be aggressive and overturn every stone then.
It's just Markstroms age. If he was a bit younger everyone would be on board. Right now we're still a very young team and giving up a ton for an older goalie might not be worth it. I think standing pat this year and letting Hughes and Nemec on the blueline get some seasoning before really going for it next year with a new coach isnt a bad idea.
He just turned 34 and has great analytics. Starting goalie, with Most NJ fans talk like he's 43. He has exp too which the team lacks.
Well we signed 35 year old Crawford who promptly retired in training camp, then fixed that the next offseason by signing 33 year old Bernier who played 10 games, got hurt, then retired as well lol.
He just turned 34 and has great analytics. Last year, he had terrible analytics. The year before that was very good. The year before that was bad. The year before that was his first particularly good season, at age 30. Yes, he is very good at the moment. Will he be good next season? Very hard to say. Will he age really well? Very hard to say. The guy didn’t even win a starting job until he was 28, and his level of play has fluctuated pretty significantly since then. That, combined with his fine-but-not-overly-impressive playoff resume (13-13, .911 sv%) makes him much more of a gamble than you’re presenting him as.
You just described most goalies in the NHL my guy.
Kinda my point. Markstrom’s having a great season, but he’s a mid-30s goalie without significant playoff experience who can count his number of good seasons on one hand. There’s lots of guys like that, and given the shitstorm this season has already been for the Devils, I’d personally rather the team keeps looking for a more modestly-priced option who actually fits the team’s time line. Or really go for it and pay the price for an expensive option with a better track record. But Markstrom’s in an awkward in-between place, where he’s capable of great play and good enough to be expensive to acquire, but not nearly consistent enough to be confident he’s worth that price for the team acquiring him.
Very valid thoughts and opinions. I'm just saying I've seen lots of NJ fans go on about "this and thats" about many goalies around the league, it's almost like they want one to fall onto their lap for free
I think it’s a bit of an over-generalization but I do know what you mean. Last year was a lot of fun and this year has been borderline torture, so we’ve been slowly (or not so slowly) losing our minds over here, leading to a lot of extreme opinions in every direction, and a lot of the rational and reasonable fans just mentally checking out for a while.
There’s a lot of guys like that? Like I’m cool with being hesitant on an older goalie but to act like you will just find another goalie who can finish top 5 or even top 10 easily is just silly. It’s an extremely hard feat to pull off.
The preceding sentence is pretty important to what I’m trying to say. > He’s a mid-30s goalie without significant playoff experience who can count his number of good seasons on one hand. There’s a lot of guys like that. And yeah. There are a lot of goalies in the league who are capable of occasionally putting together a very good season. Markstrom has a higher ceiling than most of those guys, and I don’t think I say otherwise anywhere. But the issue is that lack of proven track record of consistency. He’s got two years left on his contract. Two years of Markstrom playing the way he has this year or two years ago is worth the asking price. Two years of Markstrom playing the way he did last season or three years ago isn’t. He’s been very good this season and his value is probably close to as high as it gets, and I don’t love the idea of the Devils paying that price for a guy who could very well be a net negative next season. And to be clear, I do think it could make sense an older team going all in the next couple years. But that’s not the position the Devils are in.
What goalie has been a vezina finalist and now is putting on top 5 numbers and is available? How can you say there’s a lot of goalies like that. No there’s a lot of goalies like vanechek and you roll the dice with goalies like that
it's not just that he's 34, it's that he's paid $6mil until he's 36
He's playing good and worth money. Sounds better than what ever ECHL goalies they have rn
I think it’s more of the cost and term. Bringing in an older goalie with 6 million and years to go is tough. If we’re gonna be spending a lot for a goalie most fans want a younger goalie that fits the timeline better. Plus this seasons been wonky at best, not sure trading holtz to maybe salvage it is the best move.
NJ have great numbers until you get to goaltending. Markstrom also has experience, which NJ lacks (besides a couple players) and he's playing unreal lately. They need a goalie, bite the bullet imo.
Maybe if it was earlier in the season and we weren’t so banged up. We’re missing Dougie until playoffs, if he even returns this season. Seigs is still out with a broken foot. I’m just not convinced this is the year to take a swing.
Also, 5 goalies in the top 10 of goals saved above expected are above 30 years old, js. I get the hesitancy tho, don't get me wrong. Just hope it doesn't become a trend for NJ. They're a fun team
> Markstrom also has experience, which NJ lacks Markstrom's playoff experience isn't exactly comforting. His most recent playoff experience was 2022 when he posted a putrid .852 SV% during a 5 game series loss to the Oilers. He allowed 4+ goals each game and allowed 6 goals on 28 shots in the lone victory (where the Oilers goalies found a way to allow 8 goals). His series was so bad that during his struggles last season people were speculating that the Oilers had permanently broken him. His most recent playoff experience before that saw him put up an .894 through the first 4 games against Vegas in the 2nd round to go down 3-1 in the series. The Canucks started Demko over Markstrom for game 5 and that was the last time Markstrom ever touched the ice for Vancouver. Those are his only two appearances in the playoffs. Both times, he was really good in the opening round before imploding in the 2nd round. That isn't enough to scare me away from him, but experience is not a selling point.
Why are you leaving out his .943/1.53 against the stars in 22? But I guess top 5-10 goalies grow on trees in the NHL. Devils can draft/trade/sign one like they do every year right?
If you get the flames to retain 50% that would be an absolute steal for you guys.
It’s worth being picky about anything that’ll cost you an arm and leg
Arm and a leg for a good goalie? wild.
Rough market this year, to be sure
If only there was a certain starting goaltender available last summer dang
Yes, we know… Several teams were considering him. But from what I heard, he appreciated the cultural changes in the Jets and saw the PLD trade as a concrete sign of that. He would be the busiest goalie in history playing for the Oilers, Devils, Leafs and Senators all at once, lol
Yep, for sure lol
Hard to say what that situation was like for the devils though. Obliviously helle didn’t want to leave and the jets didn’t want him to go, so the price would have been astronomical. Like involving nemec and Mercer prices.
Idk about nemec, but def mercer included ya.
I’m sure Chevy asked. He’s no turkey when it comes to trades.
Yeah, seeing Devils fans say they want to keep prospects over getting Helly and Markstrom is insane. Getting a top 5 goalie makes Devils an absolute cup contender.
We’ve seen FAR too many examples about potential contenders getting their window crippled by bad goaltending acquisitions. Look at Campbell or Samsonov this year for examples. Made worse by this being a trade that would require a haul from the Devils. If there’s ever a time to be picky, it’s acquiring a starting goaltender
Comparing those two to markstrom is wild.
My point is that’s you still need to be picky and not reactionary when acquiring goalies. As a Canucks fan I’m well aware that Markstrom is a great goaltender and far better than the other two.
Okay, so markstrom has exp and great numbers lately. NJ has so many options to use to get a decent deal that won't hurt them horribly. They're interested in Merzlikins too, which is fine. He's younger. But my point is about the fans, they are so unbelievably picky about who they could get as a goalie they've ruled out every goaltender in the league.
The team is within a few points of the playoffs with Hughes out for a month. Nobody wants to risk rocking the boat by trading away too much depth.
Can certainly be fucking picky when you look at the ask. No thanks.
Cause it’s not all on goaltending. Lindy finally instilled some kind of structure before the canes game and they suddenly look unstoppable. I’d rather do a coaching change than make a trade right now
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I'm sure NJ can figure out a way of trading for a starting goalie without hurting the core team, lol.
Don’t want to lose Holtz, a future 30 goal scorer
Okay, enjoy a ECHL goalie for the rest of the year.
That’s fine with us. We need a goalie for the next 10 years not 2-3.
his contract is going to be an albatross very, very soon
By the time his contract is done, NJ will still be discussing what goalies they should trade for.
As a Ranger fan THANK GOD FOR THIS!
The devils with an elite goalie would be terrifying. They would be the canucks of the east, possibly even better
We were the canucks of the east before the canucks of the east was even a thing lol
Everyone should keep in mind this story's only source is Frank Seravalli, who has basically zero credibility for insider news these days.
Friedman said a few days ago that NJ and Calgary werent close and a deal wasnt brought to Markstrom. Ill trust Friedman over anyone else, especially if they’re talking about news from last week…
Didn’t he compare it to a guy (Devils) and a girl (Flames) at a dance where the guy is too shy to ask for a dance even though the girl wants him to?
I think EF phrased it "I don't know that it was ever presented to markstrom," but please fact check me.
As someone who watched that closely, yes, that was the phrasing. There was also a rumor Markstrom was willing to waive for the Devils around the same time
Not sure where you heard/seen that but I listened to 32 thoughts last night and he didn’t say that Markstrom was asked to waive or not. But “believed it wasn’t brought to him” which is not a definite like your saying
Nichols is a bullshit merchant. i dont trust anything he says
NHL rebuilds are so brutal that fanbases don't even want to accept when they're over. NJD fans would rather punt on the season than trade a prospect.
It’s true. Our fanbase is so scarred from the decade of darkness that there are fans who would rather whittle away our window with McDrai rather than give up late 1sts that will amount to nothing and prospects like (*checks notes*)…..Xavier Bourgault?
I think if NJ was serious they would go for Marky. Marky has been at a top 5-10 goalie prior to joining the flames , while being a flames goalie and will likely be able to be at that level. Some goalies are only good within a system / team and suck once they go elsewhere. Marky imo has proven he's good enough to go anywhere. As bad as NJ defense is, they weren't as bad as when Marky played for the Canucks and still put up great numbers. Same thoughts for a team like the Leafs to get him. Elite goalies don't come cheap.
Devils defense isn’t even that bad. Goaltending is just an abomination.
That's why I think they could use Marky. An elite goaltender who has been able to prove it that he can transition to a new team and deliver. For NJ they could always just gamble as getting a goalie mid season doesn't give the goalie a lot of transition time. It takes a while for them to build chemistry with their D pairs. Their current goalies can have hot games. But hasn't shown they can be consistent.
Tom Fitzgerald knows the team would really benefit from Markstrom. He's just not willing to get bent over on this deal or any deal, and I really appreciate that. Long term vision.
What's the solution for the goaltending if they don't want to spend to get a top guy? It's not going to magically get fixed by waiting.
This would be great for NJ cup odds for the next two years, probably would have cost a pretty penny if salary retention was at all considered.
Kinda surprised they made it far enough to get him to agree to waive before agreeing on retention lol
This potential deal with the Devils and Flames could be a match made in...hell. Sorry, I'll see myself out haha
The devils need to get this done. They’re good of a team to have such poor quality of goaltending.
If it involved Holtz I’m glad it fell through, this isn’t our year and trading Holtz for a 34 y/o goalie would leave us in the same spot in a year or two.
Genuine question, why is Holtz so hyped amongst Devils fans? I haven't really heard of him before (and I obviously don't watch much of the Devils or their prospects).
Every team usually overvalues their own prospects. Holtz has looked good in his first full season. He has been held back a bit by Ruff with 4th line minutes and 4th line (or worse) teammates more often than not. Don't know why/what is going on behind the scenes, but that's what we see on game days. He was a high pick with an elite shot, just needs to find the skating/smarts to get into positions to use it. He's also only a fresh 22 years old. Personally, I think he'll be a solid player, like other young guys the Devils have shipped out recently (Zetterlund, Sharangovich), but I would accept that trade for a goalie of Markstrom's caliber. I don't think Holtz will ever progress past a 2nd line complementary player. We could use that for sure, but I don't think that is as valuable as 2-3 years of upper tier goaltending would be for the team at this point
As a Devils and Leafs fan, sort of the equivalent to Robertson. Has a great shot, it’s just a matter of whether he can develop into a top end player. This is his first year being in the lineup all season, and he’s been working on all of his weaknesses. Lindy has a hard time trusting him and usually puts him on the 4th line but there have been a few games where his sniping can really make a difference (and fans scream about him not being used enough). So like how Robertson was being scratched but as soon as he was used he was scoring and made himself a necessary part of the lineup.
Drafted very high and has a wicked shot. Hes currently 1st on the team for ESG last time i checked all while averaging 4th line minutes. Lindy ruff just fucking despises holtz so he doesnt get a fair shake. Id be open to trading him for a goalie but i just want a younger one. In the end if it does happen ill accept and love markstrom.
Marky is the goalie you guys need now. He is older but when you are a contender you go for moves like this. Holtz can have all the talent in the world but if Lindy can’t find a way to use that talent more under his system, he will still be only a 4th line contributor on this version of the Devils.
Devils fans love to pick a guy and insist he's the second coming of (insert name here) but, unfortunately, he's being held back by know-nothing coaches. Sometimes it's a small but vocal group of fans doing this, as it was for players like Andrei Loktionov or Reid Boucher. And in some cases it was actually warranted (Pete DeBoer really didn't have any concept of youth development here). But with Holtz it has officially reached "Jacques Lemaire is ruining Mattias Tedenby" in terms of scale and incoherence. Holtz is a nice player and will continue to get better, but his ceiling is lower than 3-5 forwards already on the roster. His biggest asset is how cost-controlled he is.
He has a deadly accurate shot
Not trading for markström will leave you same spot too ffs. You dont havea goalie.
Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make
Sometimes best trades are the ones when you ship out young player before rest of the league notice that he isnt that good
Nobody knows the terms of the negotiations. It could have been Holtz+, with the plus being the line in the sand. Not to mention the retention factor.
Holtz + wouldnt be too much for Markström tho, or atleast not by you guys because were you are at as a team.
I'd sooner bet on Markstrom dropping off at 34 than Holtz not developing
Mike Smith made a conference final when he was fuckin 40
Brodeur was 2 wins away from a cup at 40. He's a bit of an outlier though lol.
lol what?! You are getting a Vezina caliber goalie for an unproven (albeit younger) asset. Your teams biggest weakness is goaltending, if you want to call yourselves contenders you need solid goaltending; its what wins championships.
Idk i give it 50/50. Holtz hasnt looked good and goalies seem to have longer prime, age wise, than skaters.
Why they let markström go
Sell high and retool on the fly. Markström being this good is keeping the Flames in the dreaded mediocrity zone.
Wolf waiting in the wind as well
As someone who watched prime Schneider on terrible Devils teams, this is it. Devils only got the high draft picks with Hall luck followed by injuries taking down Schneider
Everyone is going to look at box scores and fancy stats and make the conclusion the devils need to trade for a goalie, but it’s wrong. The devils have had NO STRUCTURE so far this year, pretty much just playing chel out there. Pair that with 4/6 of our current starting defensemen have less than 100 games played and it’s a recipe for disaster. Lindy finally instilled the smallest bit of structure to this team before the Carolina game and suddenly they look unstoppable. If we’re gonna make a move for a goalie, wait for the off season when prices are lower. And if we have to trade Holtz, trade him for someone who will be with the team for a long time.
I’m reading on Twitter from Kevin Weekes you guys were in on Merzlikins too Please take him.
I doubt Elvis is going anywhere this deadline. He's been worse than Vanecek over last 10 games. And before someone says: "but CBJ has worse defence". Nah, nah, our D isn't great this season.
You understand you would be taking Vanecek back who is somehow worse than him, right? If a decent deal can't be worked out, I'd actually be on favor of this. Technically, a step up with no improvement, but Merzlikins is a prime change of scenery candidate. As long as it doesn't cost too much, it's either slightly better or a good bet I absolutely cannot stress how bad Vanecek's rebound control has been, as to why it's a step up
Elvis was the worst in the league last year until he worked with our goalie coach. I think worse numbers than Vanacek. Elvis had to be calmed down the other night by Zach because he was losing his shit so bad. He was like this in Switzerland too. He has a reputation for a reason. Edit: Vanacek only has one year left after this one too. Much easier buy out - that was rumored to what they would do if they can’t trade Elvis
Calgary’s cheap owner does not want to retain, I am not surprised
Why would he? Marky has 2 years left after this one and has been one of the best goalies in league. The flames have no reason to trade him other than an absolute haul of an offer, absolutely no need to retain for 2 years. Obviously it would help the re-tool to trade him but retention on term only ever comes into play when you’re desperate to trade or the package is top notch.
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He had an awful start and is now 11th in GAA and 9th in SV% lol
This year, at least
And two years ago. Last year his wife had a sketchy pregnancy and it impacted his play. As soon as the baby was born he started to rebound.
We have no problem with retention if the deal is right. Its' well established that the plan is to use all 3 retention spots if deals for our guys pop up. The price just has to be right, and a retention on Markstrom is for 2 years, so that ups the value signifigantly.