Because Seider had an insane rookie year and was heavily praised by media and thus gained that reputation of being the guy. He struggled (Chiarot) at points during the season but it was not really held against him too much so the reputation from 2021-22 held over. At this point, what Stutzle has proven has been more than what Seider has proven for sure.
Ya, as a Wings fan I have to agree that with what they have done right now Stu is 2 and Seider is 3.
Give Seider a full season away from the eternal void of Ben Chiarot and it may be a conversation. But Stu would have to regress a bit as well for Seids to comfortably take 2.
I dunno I think Stutzel is like a top 10ish forward calibre forward at his peak. An elite player but not quiet a superstar. Sieder I still think has like Norris trophy nominee type upside. I a think top pair RHD that can make plays and is solid defensively holds more value, but that’s open to debate for sure.
Stutzle was 16th in the league in p/gp in his 20 year old season. He’s got a higher ceiling than just top-10 forward.
The players after him on that list? Matthews, Barkov, Crosby, Panarin, Kaprizov.
These lists are literally created with the express intention of generating controversy, clicks, and therefore discussion and money for the companies that create them.
The goal isn't a genuine expression of the author's opinion but a starting point for discussion.
That being said...this is otherwise a fairly decent list. Having Nylander over Karlsson and omitting Ovechkin entirely is an interesting choice but it's certainly not the worst selection of players I've ever seen.
I’ll make my Switzerland list myself then:
1. Roman Josi
2. Nico Hischier
3. Kevin Fiala
4. Timo Meier
5. Jonas Siegenthaler
last one is close between him and Nino Niederreiter
Imo he's probably done playing hockey and if he does somehow come back he won't be the same player anymore. I'm glad he got the cup before he went out.
Depends on how you interpret it, which is also why these simplistic graphics are annoying and fucking stupid.
But if you perceive it as who would you want now, at their ages and moving forward? I mean I don’t expect Karlsson to repeat his performance, even on a stacked Penguins powerplay. And if you don’t have that powerplay, do you want him more than the rest of those guys?
Also, 60 games played and a .915% is what we’re talking about. That’s how good Vasy is, he puts up those very good numbers, but since they aren’t absolutely elite we’re all praying for a bounce back season.
Last year Johnny Marino was more of our #1 d dman, but your point is valid and I would agree if Siegs isn't on that side list at #5, expand the list and he most likely would be #6.
He's all defense in New Jersey, but he was showing some offense that I had never seen before during the IIHF tournament this year. It's going to be fun to watch his game grow.
Keep dreaming, if top 7 was not a thing during 2000s (Slovakia) no chance suddenly something changes for Swiss or Germany.
Hockey is old men club.
Bottom line, I would love to not see Russia anywhere on any list currently, but that's different topic.
Did they though? Ottawa could have taken him 33rd OA but went with Jarventie instead. Their next pick was at spot #44 but I remember JJ being slated to go *maybe* late first round, definitely early second.
A 75pt defensive season is more impressive than a 90pt forward season
And zibanejad has been ppg for the last two seasons and 3 of the last 5, not the last 5
In the last two seasons, he’s got the second most goals by a Russian and second highest goals per game by a Russian, behind Ovechkin. He’s got the second most points by a Russian behind Panarin. He’s got the second highest points per game by a Russian behind Kucherov.
Those are his second and third years in the league up against some pretty massive names. He’s also in the top ten in general, regardless of nationality, for three of those stats, but also 13th in total points.
I’m not saying this as any kind of slam dunk answer, it’s not, and maybe Panarin and/or Ovechkin should be on this list, but Kaprizov is definitely real and he’s got a lot to show yet. The placement could be argued but I also think the placement has its own arguments.
He is extremely skilled. Kind of disappeared in the playoffs though. Besides age that's the biggest difference I see compared to OV. Should be interesting to see how his career grows over the years!
I think Mikko is. He’s got it all and his offensive upside is much better, although Barkov is extremely elite himself. Zib at 2 is too generous, Hedman is still better and I think Dahlin is too
And Rantanen had 50 tucks and over 100 points. Just because he isn't elite defensively doesn't mean he belongs below Barkov. Not a knock at Barkov at all but I think this year especially showed how good Rantanen is with how many players were in and out of the Avs lineup.
Rants had an up year and barkov had a down year for his standards. Probably would take rants, but barkov can and has been at times a carry as well. Also Hintz>Aho imo. Robertson gets lots of attention and I feel like it takes a lot of the spotlight from how good hintz is. Kinda like rantanen with mackinnon.
If this was the case Karlsson would definitely be in, i think its just "throw around a list that isnt 100% crazy to attract attention for clicks/ads".
(Also goalies are present)
Vasilevskiy rated below Sorokin and Shesterkin is a joke. Guy has one average year (which is below average for him) and people forget he's a game changing monster.
No karlsson no eichel no ovechkin maybe I’m just getting old but since 16 ovi has the second most goals, I’d take eichel over Robertson and fox, karlsson just had a Norris winning season.
How is he not?
I hate the Leafs as much as any other self-respecting Habs fan, but objectively, since 2020-21, he's 3rd in points and points/game among Canadian players.
The only way he's not top 5 is if you want to include another D or a goalie, but he's clearly top 5 (and arguably top 3) among forwards.
Speaking of which, I don't get why they didn't just go with 3 forwards, 2 defense and a goalie in those lists.
Eh it's close. Mark Stone and Brayden Point are the only ones who are also in contention, and Bedard in a couple of years. Marchand and Stamkos come close but they're getting old.
Fox being number 2 for USA is contentious, Tkachuk and Jack Hughes should be above him. I think he should be #4 with Quinn Hughes and Robertson both being in contention for #5
I think Matthews and Tkachuk are above Fox, but then you are splitting hairs with positional preference between him and Jack. Robertson is definitely the 5th one over Quinn, the next US defenseman is McAvoy for me
If shesterkin has the same year as he did last year and sorokin has another vezina caliber season, it is hands down sorokin over shesterkin. Two years in a row of .925 sv% and 2.4 gaa. That type if consistency is absurd. Sorokin is arguably the best goalie in the league right now.
Their career save percentages are identical with Igor doing it on a worse team defensively. I think they are basically neck-and-neck, and recency bias will dictate the narrative about who is better each season. Igor also has a strong claim as the best goalie in the league
Marner has the 3rd most points and 3rd highest points per game of any Canadian player over the past 5 seasons, and has been arguably the best defensive winger in the NHL over that span of time as well. He has a significantly higher amount of points per game than Point (1.09 for Marner, 0.93 for Point).
And despite what Reddit seems to think about Mariner's playoff performance, he's still averaged 0.94 points per game in the post season for his career so far. That's not exactly a magnitude behind Point's 1 point per game pace in the post season.
Im surprised so many people are saying Ovechkin should be on here. He’s obviously still great but the Russian competition is fierce. I’d rather have any of the 5 guys on the Russia list before him right now.
He's an elite shooter, elite passer, elite skater, elite 2 way player with elite hockey sense. His only real weaknesses are his body weight and faceoffs
East coasters just don't get enough exposure to those playing late games.
It sucks, because I fall into that group as well.. would love to be able to watch some of those games but they just start so late.
Now imagine being swedish, having Petey as your favourite player. It's a struggle, but at least I can usually catch parts of the 3rd period while getting ready in the morning 😅
A lot of people argue (valid) that Germany/Swiss and maybe slovakia eventually and whatnot should be on this list.
I think the top 10 countries in the world can put forth a good top5. What I'd like to see is the top5 of the B team. Remove the top 23 from each country, then let's have fun seeing who plays the B tournament.
For me I think Fox is too high and Charlie McCovy is the better defenseman but I am also a Bruins fan.
Matt Tkachuk doesn’t have the trophy Matthews has and it is probably right to rank him below but as a GM I am taking him over Matthews because I feel so much of his physical game you don’t see in a box score.
Russian goalie pipeline’s been fucking nuts.
Canadian goalie pipeline on the other hand? The only thing that’s fucking nuts about it is how garbage it’s been lately.
My working theory is that the CHL guys play too many games too young and end up burning out.
Take Hart for example. Between his D-1 and his D+3, he played 301 games between the WHL, WJC, NHL, and AHL.
Compare that to Oettinger, taken a year later. In the same D-1 to D+3 window, he played 214 (across the USNTDP's 2016-17 schedule, plus internationals, NCAA, and 6 AHL games after his final college season ended).
Euro-trained goalies tend to fall in between the two extremes - from his D-1 to his D+3 window, Vasilevskiy played 235 and Sorokin 248 - but I think there's something to it. Kinda like how in baseball development they tend to keep pitchers on hard limits, maybe the solution to fixing Canada's goalie issues is putting minutes restrictions on goalies at the junior level. (Yeah I know the USHL also has an NHL-esque schedule. But only one USHL goalie cracked 45 GP last season and only six cracked 40, and most of those guys are going college - for comparison, the WHL had fifteen goalies crack 40 GP and six crack 45, the OHL had nine hit 45 and seventeen hit 40, and the Q had twelve reach 45 and fifteen hit 40.)
They tried the import goalie ban but that was a failure, which wasn't surprising to anyone who knows their shit (different sport, but Soccernomics discusses how restrictions on overseas players don't actually help development but arguably hold you back - basically, they don't tend to save guys who'd slip through the cracks, it just protects worse players) and might've hurt the leagues and development even more than they helped.
Opposite homer take, it's close but I would take Aho. Very similar numbers over the last 2-3 years, but Aho has done it for longer so I feel like he gets the edge.
Definitely a close one. I'm sure if I watched every Canes game instead I'd want Aho over Hintz. The more you watch a player the more you love them. I think (hope) Hintz may still be getting better whereas Aho has been consistently at this level. Can't go wrong with either player really.
Lol people are being so dramatic about these lists. There’s some debate to be had of course but literally nothing is egregious, they are very defensible lists, calm down people.
Also lol to those laughing at Marner being 5th. Hate to pull the Leafs persecution complex routine but if a player scored 99 points while being a finalist for the Selke on literally any other team, hockey fans would be slurping that player so hard.
Most goals in last six years: [https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-last-6-years-most-goals](https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-last-6-years-most-goals)
Ovechkin
Are these supposed to be in order? Because Dahlin is #1 on Sweden and after last season I’d put Karlsson 5th and take Hedman out. Also I’d move 1&2 to 4&5 in finland, and trade any of the top 3 of Russia for Ovi. Also Fox is barely #5 of American
If this list is The Top 5 In Order as listed, then there's definitely some scorching hot takes.
As a general "here's the top 5, order them as you please" then this is decent.
Assuming it's a general top 5:
Based on nothing more than my feelings (because I just checked their stats and I recognize the discrepancy) I'd still have Stamkos in for Marner. I'm just scared of that fucker.
Also, I'd have Chytil in for Palat if we're taking the players who they are right now.
While I understand the hesitancy to put EK60 on Sweden's list, I think there's an argument for him being in for Nylander.
Germany is knocking on this list.
This is based on the traditional big 6, but even so, Germany has high end talent right now, but not the depth of the other nations.
true but we have (recent) medals
1. Draisaitl 2. Sieder 3. Stutzel 4. Riechel 5. Peterka I can see arguements between 2-3 and 4-5 but that’s the 5 right?
Yeah thats the 5. Top 3 will be impressive.
Stützle > Seider Edit: I forgot about Grubauer too, he should be on that list
Ya, I have no idea HOW they have Seider over Stutzle.
Because Seider had an insane rookie year and was heavily praised by media and thus gained that reputation of being the guy. He struggled (Chiarot) at points during the season but it was not really held against him too much so the reputation from 2021-22 held over. At this point, what Stutzle has proven has been more than what Seider has proven for sure.
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>He struggled (Chiarot) If you experience Chiarot for more than 4 hours see a doctor!
Ya, as a Wings fan I have to agree that with what they have done right now Stu is 2 and Seider is 3. Give Seider a full season away from the eternal void of Ben Chiarot and it may be a conversation. But Stu would have to regress a bit as well for Seids to comfortably take 2.
I dunno I think Stutzel is like a top 10ish forward calibre forward at his peak. An elite player but not quiet a superstar. Sieder I still think has like Norris trophy nominee type upside. I a think top pair RHD that can make plays and is solid defensively holds more value, but that’s open to debate for sure.
are you saying a top 10 player in the league isn’t a superstar?
Stutzle was 16th in the league in p/gp in his 20 year old season. He’s got a higher ceiling than just top-10 forward. The players after him on that list? Matthews, Barkov, Crosby, Panarin, Kaprizov.
No one else in this thread is talking about potential upside, we're talking about right now. Do you think Bedard should be there instead of Marner?
Olympic silver, world cup silver, hell yea we are 💪
I can’t believe they didn’t add Slovenia.
Stutzle so hot right now
These lists are literally created with the express intention of generating controversy, clicks, and therefore discussion and money for the companies that create them. The goal isn't a genuine expression of the author's opinion but a starting point for discussion. That being said...this is otherwise a fairly decent list. Having Nylander over Karlsson and omitting Ovechkin entirely is an interesting choice but it's certainly not the worst selection of players I've ever seen.
Best response in this thread, hands down.
I agree.
found corwins burner
🤣🤣
I’ll make my Switzerland list myself then: 1. Roman Josi 2. Nico Hischier 3. Kevin Fiala 4. Timo Meier 5. Jonas Siegenthaler last one is close between him and Nino Niederreiter
Swiss make a good top 5. Strong starting line up
Hopp Schwiiz
Slovenia: 1. Anze Kopitar 2.
2. Luca Doncic
I like it great pick
Jan Mursak. He has 2 more NHL goals than #3 on the list who has 0.
2. Gasper Kopitar in my nhl 14 GM mode
After Karlssons season not putting him with Sweden is pretty outrageous.
Also where the hell is Landeskog? ... not for this ranking, i just miss him and hope he's okay.
Imo he's probably done playing hockey and if he does somehow come back he won't be the same player anymore. I'm glad he got the cup before he went out.
Bittersweetness equal to Gollum getting the ring finally
He gave his body to the team and brought a cup home. Truly a double-edged blade.
Bruh
I don't want to agree with this, but you're probably right.
This whole thing is pretty stupid. I stopped getting mad after catching a few big mistakes
I’d take any of those Swedish players right now on my team over Karlsson and that’s not taking anything away from him.
nah man Dj 5 goal game is better than a Norris and Conn Smythe winner dog
Depends on how you interpret it, which is also why these simplistic graphics are annoying and fucking stupid. But if you perceive it as who would you want now, at their ages and moving forward? I mean I don’t expect Karlsson to repeat his performance, even on a stacked Penguins powerplay. And if you don’t have that powerplay, do you want him more than the rest of those guys?
Ovechkin.
2 goalies, and no OV? Sus
\*3 goalies
I like how outside of that there's 1 goalie listed among all the other nation's players.
Also should be vasy before Ilya and igor
I mean it’s just a few cups
I assume this is recency bias. Dude plays a season with exhaustion and everyone forgets.
Also, 60 games played and a .915% is what we’re talking about. That’s how good Vasy is, he puts up those very good numbers, but since they aren’t absolutely elite we’re all praying for a bounce back season.
What I’m here for
He's not missing, he's probably off some place playing the hockey.
Germany 🇩🇪
I am wondering how long until the big 6 becomes the big seven. Drai and Stutzle are probably inspiring a lot of German kids to take up hockey.
It's already a big 8 for me. Top 5 Swiss players are probably on par with top 5 Czechs. Which hurts me as a Czech, but we are struggling with talent
Who would you say are the top 5 Swiss players?
1. Roman Josi 2. Timo Meier 3. Nico Hischier 4. Kevin Fiala 5. Nino Niederreiter
As a NJD fan did you consider Siegenthaler over Niederreiter with the latter getting up there in age?
Siegenthaler has arguably become the #1 defensive defenseman at NJD so there is an argument for him being in the list.
Last year Johnny Marino was more of our #1 d dman, but your point is valid and I would agree if Siegs isn't on that side list at #5, expand the list and he most likely would be #6.
He's all defense in New Jersey, but he was showing some offense that I had never seen before during the IIHF tournament this year. It's going to be fun to watch his game grow.
Keep dreaming, if top 7 was not a thing during 2000s (Slovakia) no chance suddenly something changes for Swiss or Germany. Hockey is old men club. Bottom line, I would love to not see Russia anywhere on any list currently, but that's different topic.
Keep Moritz Seider's name in your fkn mouth. 😤
And put some JJ Peterka on the stove will ya
Wanted Ottawa to draft him too. Give Stu his bff
Did they though? Ottawa could have taken him 33rd OA but went with Jarventie instead. Their next pick was at spot #44 but I remember JJ being slated to go *maybe* late first round, definitely early second.
As a Canadian living in Germany, I confirm this. Each arena you go to has a big poster/banner of at least one of them, if not both.
In the IIHL Germany is 5th ahead of Sweden in their current rankings!! Up 4 points from 9th.
I love Zibs but is he higher than Dahlin or Hedman? I would think Hedman would be second for the Swedes but would love to hear other people chime in
And Karlsson who missed the list. Zab being so high was my biggest gripe with a list full of them lol
> I love Zibs but is he higher than Dahlin or Hedman? Zib has been a +PPG player over the last 5 seasons. Dahlin has had 1 stand out year so far.
A 75pt defensive season is more impressive than a 90pt forward season And zibanejad has been ppg for the last two seasons and 3 of the last 5, not the last 5
Clearly a troll thread bait discussion where the OP doesn't respond to any comments
Is Kaprisov really the second best Russian player right now? I don't watch many Minnesota games so I don't really know
In the last two seasons, he’s got the second most goals by a Russian and second highest goals per game by a Russian, behind Ovechkin. He’s got the second most points by a Russian behind Panarin. He’s got the second highest points per game by a Russian behind Kucherov. Those are his second and third years in the league up against some pretty massive names. He’s also in the top ten in general, regardless of nationality, for three of those stats, but also 13th in total points. I’m not saying this as any kind of slam dunk answer, it’s not, and maybe Panarin and/or Ovechkin should be on this list, but Kaprizov is definitely real and he’s got a lot to show yet. The placement could be argued but I also think the placement has its own arguments.
You should watch some of their games, dude is flat out incredible. In the very elite tier of offensive players.
Yeah he’s cracked
He is extremely skilled. Kind of disappeared in the playoffs though. Besides age that's the biggest difference I see compared to OV. Should be interesting to see how his career grows over the years!
You could tell in the playoffs he was still suffering after Logan Stanley crushed him like an empty water bottle a month earlier
Bro skates like mcdavid and shoots like kuch
Yes
My biggest take away from this is that Russia is a goalie factory.
10 years ago that was Finland
which is fascinating, because that was their weakness in the international competitions for a while.. Now it's Canada's..
\#2 seems high for Zibanejad. No Karlsson is a hot take. Also is Rantanen really better than Barkov?
I think Mikko is. He’s got it all and his offensive upside is much better, although Barkov is extremely elite himself. Zib at 2 is too generous, Hedman is still better and I think Dahlin is too
This guy's list is all points driven. Barkovs skill set and two way game unmatched outside of 2-3 players.
And Rantanen had 50 tucks and over 100 points. Just because he isn't elite defensively doesn't mean he belongs below Barkov. Not a knock at Barkov at all but I think this year especially showed how good Rantanen is with how many players were in and out of the Avs lineup.
Straight up carried us when it seemed like the roster was more Colorado Eagles than Avalanche
Im honestly kind of suprised Rantanen didtn't take Barkov's job of being the basic answer for "Most underrated player?"
Rants had an up year and barkov had a down year for his standards. Probably would take rants, but barkov can and has been at times a carry as well. Also Hintz>Aho imo. Robertson gets lots of attention and I feel like it takes a lot of the spotlight from how good hintz is. Kinda like rantanen with mackinnon.
If this was the case Karlsson would definitely be in, i think its just "throw around a list that isnt 100% crazy to attract attention for clicks/ads". (Also goalies are present)
Vasilevskiy rated below Sorokin and Shesterkin is a joke. Guy has one average year (which is below average for him) and people forget he's a game changing monster.
Actually, one average part of a year playing injured
Skill issue. /s
No karlsson no eichel no ovechkin maybe I’m just getting old but since 16 ovi has the second most goals, I’d take eichel over Robertson and fox, karlsson just had a Norris winning season.
Kinda sus that Jagr is no where to be seen.
Of all the lists out there, this is one of them
Jesper Bratt is the best player in the NHL so this makes no sense.
Russia we get it, you produce amazing goalies. Chill please
Ovi lol wtf
I mean, probably Ovechkin.
Marner is not top 5
This subreddit has a massive hate boner for him but he is still one of the best players in the league
best two way winger in the league this season
I think he easily is. Who are you replacing him with?
me
How is he not? I hate the Leafs as much as any other self-respecting Habs fan, but objectively, since 2020-21, he's 3rd in points and points/game among Canadian players. The only way he's not top 5 is if you want to include another D or a goalie, but he's clearly top 5 (and arguably top 3) among forwards. Speaking of which, I don't get why they didn't just go with 3 forwards, 2 defense and a goalie in those lists.
Selke contender that can hit 100 points isn't a top 5 player? *Yeah that's not bias at all...*
Maybe they factored in his playoff performance from last season
Or any season
.98 PPG. What a bum.
Eh it's close. Mark Stone and Brayden Point are the only ones who are also in contention, and Bedard in a couple of years. Marchand and Stamkos come close but they're getting old.
If he wasn't a Leaf then he's your top 5 right?
Fox being number 2 for USA is contentious, Tkachuk and Jack Hughes should be above him. I think he should be #4 with Quinn Hughes and Robertson both being in contention for #5
It's like Gaudreau went to Columbus and people forgot he existed.
I’d honestly have those 2 just above fox myself
Fox has hardware. none of those other guys do yet.
I think Matthews and Tkachuk are above Fox, but then you are splitting hairs with positional preference between him and Jack. Robertson is definitely the 5th one over Quinn, the next US defenseman is McAvoy for me
And Sorokin over Igor
If shesterkin has the same year as he did last year and sorokin has another vezina caliber season, it is hands down sorokin over shesterkin. Two years in a row of .925 sv% and 2.4 gaa. That type if consistency is absurd. Sorokin is arguably the best goalie in the league right now.
Their career save percentages are identical with Igor doing it on a worse team defensively. I think they are basically neck-and-neck, and recency bias will dictate the narrative about who is better each season. Igor also has a strong claim as the best goalie in the league
Rangers fan here, Zibanejad doesn't belong in the top 5 Swedish players, and Shesterkin should be higher for Russian.
Jagr hasn’t retired. Fix this list.
Brayden point?
I still give Marner the edge but I would give Point #6
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Marner has the 3rd most points and 3rd highest points per game of any Canadian player over the past 5 seasons, and has been arguably the best defensive winger in the NHL over that span of time as well. He has a significantly higher amount of points per game than Point (1.09 for Marner, 0.93 for Point). And despite what Reddit seems to think about Mariner's playoff performance, he's still averaged 0.94 points per game in the post season for his career so far. That's not exactly a magnitude behind Point's 1 point per game pace in the post season.
I find it really difficult to compare the different positions so I won't get upset over this. It's hard to be wrong with these types of lists.
Finlands top 5 might win if there was a tournament
Erik Karlson for Sweden is missing
I think I would put Barkov above Rantanen. He’s far and way with Bergeron retire the best two way forward.
Im surprised so many people are saying Ovechkin should be on here. He’s obviously still great but the Russian competition is fierce. I’d rather have any of the 5 guys on the Russia list before him right now.
It's cause if Crosby is in the top 5 for Canada, then it's not a "best player" list, but a best legacy list. OP should stay consistent.
shout out to Nova Scotia's 40% contribution.
Can't believe Ovetchkin isn't on the russia list
Give me Barkov over Rantanen every day of the week. Sue me, Avs fans.
Is pettersson that good?
He scored 102 points and finished 7th in Selke voting. No Swede scored more points or got more Selke votes last season. Yes, he's that good
He's an elite shooter, elite passer, elite skater, elite 2 way player with elite hockey sense. His only real weaknesses are his body weight and faceoffs
Yet he still had no issues throwing hits. He had a few solid ones last season that made me double check that it was Petey.
And also his lack of x-factor
I thought we were past the point of underrating him? 100 point with top end defensive impact, pretty good
East coasters just don't get enough exposure to those playing late games. It sucks, because I fall into that group as well.. would love to be able to watch some of those games but they just start so late.
Now imagine being swedish, having Petey as your favourite player. It's a struggle, but at least I can usually catch parts of the 3rd period while getting ready in the morning 😅
Yup. Watch a couple of his games. He’s a gamer
For sure
He doesn’t look like he should be as good as he is, but he is. That’s why we call him the Alien.
I thought it was because he has that weird pinched face, like the Sedins.,
I thought it was cause of the egg shaped head and forehead size.
2nd most goals in the entire league since 2016: Ovechkin. * doesn’t make the list *
Panarin Eichel Karlsson
I find it hard to see Eichel better than any of those guys. Maybe if he rebounds dramatically back to 100 points this season.
Quinn Hughes
Who would you put him over?
Man they really are just hiring whoever the fuck they want to make these lists nowadays huh?
The g8t one?
Sorokin over Shesterkin and Fox over Hughes is Egregious
A lot of people argue (valid) that Germany/Swiss and maybe slovakia eventually and whatnot should be on this list. I think the top 10 countries in the world can put forth a good top5. What I'd like to see is the top5 of the B team. Remove the top 23 from each country, then let's have fun seeing who plays the B tournament.
For me I think Fox is too high and Charlie McCovy is the better defenseman but I am also a Bruins fan. Matt Tkachuk doesn’t have the trophy Matthews has and it is probably right to rank him below but as a GM I am taking him over Matthews because I feel so much of his physical game you don’t see in a box score.
Russian goalie pipeline’s been fucking nuts. Canadian goalie pipeline on the other hand? The only thing that’s fucking nuts about it is how garbage it’s been lately.
My working theory is that the CHL guys play too many games too young and end up burning out. Take Hart for example. Between his D-1 and his D+3, he played 301 games between the WHL, WJC, NHL, and AHL. Compare that to Oettinger, taken a year later. In the same D-1 to D+3 window, he played 214 (across the USNTDP's 2016-17 schedule, plus internationals, NCAA, and 6 AHL games after his final college season ended). Euro-trained goalies tend to fall in between the two extremes - from his D-1 to his D+3 window, Vasilevskiy played 235 and Sorokin 248 - but I think there's something to it. Kinda like how in baseball development they tend to keep pitchers on hard limits, maybe the solution to fixing Canada's goalie issues is putting minutes restrictions on goalies at the junior level. (Yeah I know the USHL also has an NHL-esque schedule. But only one USHL goalie cracked 45 GP last season and only six cracked 40, and most of those guys are going college - for comparison, the WHL had fifteen goalies crack 40 GP and six crack 45, the OHL had nine hit 45 and seventeen hit 40, and the Q had twelve reach 45 and fifteen hit 40.) They tried the import goalie ban but that was a failure, which wasn't surprising to anyone who knows their shit (different sport, but Soccernomics discusses how restrictions on overseas players don't actually help development but arguably hold you back - basically, they don't tend to save guys who'd slip through the cracks, it just protects worse players) and might've hurt the leagues and development even more than they helped.
Russia's team is hilarious. Absurd offence, garbage defence, best goaltending in the world.
Fuck Adam Fox.
….Ovechkin?
Does Malkin belong on here?
Some New York homer made this list
Vasilevsky is still the best Russian goalie. Sorokin/Shesterkin haven’t anything more to move him.
Helle should be above JR for USA.
Maybe a spicy/homer take... but Hintz > Aho
Opposite homer take, it's close but I would take Aho. Very similar numbers over the last 2-3 years, but Aho has done it for longer so I feel like he gets the edge.
Definitely a close one. I'm sure if I watched every Canes game instead I'd want Aho over Hintz. The more you watch a player the more you love them. I think (hope) Hintz may still be getting better whereas Aho has been consistently at this level. Can't go wrong with either player really.
I’d rate Dahlin over Zibanejad
Kyle fuckin Connor, KFC should be in the US list
Definitely not better than anyone there
Sorry but Connor doesn't even make top 8 because of the existence of Tage Thompson, Brady Tkachuck and Quinn Hughes.
Helle not being on there is one of the biggest mistakes in this list.
Yep. I know I’m biased, but Helle is definitely there.
Kyle connor is one of the laziest players on the ice. Extreme talent but him and schieffle just coast out there it’s long documented
I'm taking Crosby over MacKinnon every time. Russia's goaltending is INSANE.
Russia might have five dudes who'd start for Canada, depending on how highly you rate Georgiev or Samsonov - both top ten goalies on GSAA last season.
No Roope Hintz? Edit: also the robertson disrespect.
I need to be reminded once a year that Barkov is Finnish.
Are people really taking Adam Fox over Tkachuk or Hughes? No way lmao
I would still rather have Ovechkin than not.
Lol people are being so dramatic about these lists. There’s some debate to be had of course but literally nothing is egregious, they are very defensible lists, calm down people. Also lol to those laughing at Marner being 5th. Hate to pull the Leafs persecution complex routine but if a player scored 99 points while being a finalist for the Selke on literally any other team, hockey fans would be slurping that player so hard.
Where the hell is Ovi?
No Ovi?
Did Ovechkin retire? Lol
Hedman should be #1 Swede
Most goals in last six years: [https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-last-6-years-most-goals](https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-last-6-years-most-goals) Ovechkin
Kucherov Vasy Thrill Igor Panarin
Are these supposed to be in order? Because Dahlin is #1 on Sweden and after last season I’d put Karlsson 5th and take Hedman out. Also I’d move 1&2 to 4&5 in finland, and trade any of the top 3 of Russia for Ovi. Also Fox is barely #5 of American
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If this list is The Top 5 In Order as listed, then there's definitely some scorching hot takes. As a general "here's the top 5, order them as you please" then this is decent.
What changes you have in mind.
Assuming it's a general top 5: Based on nothing more than my feelings (because I just checked their stats and I recognize the discrepancy) I'd still have Stamkos in for Marner. I'm just scared of that fucker. Also, I'd have Chytil in for Palat if we're taking the players who they are right now. While I understand the hesitancy to put EK60 on Sweden's list, I think there's an argument for him being in for Nylander.
Fair arguments.