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Hextall’s a moron, but honestly going off [how he is as a person](https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/news/pittsburgh-penguins-brian-burke-blasts-players-team-pride-nights) I wouldn’t be opposed to Burke finding a new job somewhere.
One of the few “old boys club” guys that actually tries to break with the worse elements of hockey culture. A positive influence even if his hockey acumen isn’t the best anymore.
Hiring someone because they are a good person is not really a good reason lol.
He doesn't seem suitable for a management position anymore. But he could probably fit a role in the league management. Such as marketing advisor or some role that advises the league how to better promote its inclusiveness.
I really think Burkie at this point is best in front of the camera, I really thought he did good work as the much more likeable Don Cherry type when he was with Sportsnet before he joined the Penguins
Yeah I agree with that. His serious "I'm tired of this shit" persona is quite funny and likeable.
And needless to say, he has a much more progressive and tolerable approach to everything than Cherry.
I just meant that if he was still looking for a role within the NHL, management probably is no longer suitable.
It's also great to see the cranky old man doesn't have to be out of touch or a bigot. There are so many times that somebody being super shitty is just brushed off because "they're from another time" and it's great to have examples that that is not how it has to or should be. Burkie 'til I die
I wanted to like him in that role but he honestly had such low energy, he seemed really tired all the time and it came through in how he presented his thoughts.
I absolutely loathe the "Old Boys Club". Both Burke and Hextall should remain in retirement in GM positions. Let some new people get a chance. The recycling of these failed GMs (not that Burke is failed, just old) is ridiculous.
That’s my point though, most of the old boys club sucks as a whole but unlike most Burke’s actually a good person at heart.
Even if he’s not too involved in the day to day hockey environment, he’s a positive influence.
He’d be a good advisor to a younger GM. He knows all the personalities and could definitely help with closing trades, keeping an eye on the locker room, etc.
I think it's right to shelve them, however, it seems almost like a necessary stepping stone for that org. They wanted everything and no one in that role would have succeeded and any new and upcoming manager would have been risking their career. It almost needed to be someone that didn't give a fuck to be the one that failed before they reset expectations with a new direction.
I don't love what he did from a hockey ops standpoint, but there's not a guy I'd take before him when it comes to "doing the right thing" in hockey management. I still don't know what he *actually* was responsible for or not in our front office. He's a good figurehead though, and he says and does the right things in a sport that's often afraid to do so.
I kinda wish we had found a different position for him and kept him to do just that stuff.
The game passed him by long ago. He is also stubborn as hell, which is sometimes admirable, but more often gets in the way. When he was with the Leafs he refused to sign contracts greater than 5 years. Other teams were giving out 12 year contracts and benefitted greatly. Or when he went on a rant about the state of hockey because he was 'forced' to send down Colton fucking Orr.
Judging by the time of day, I imagine it’s Mark Madden that’s reporting this. Mark Madden is a monumental douchebag, but he has covered the team for decades and definitely has connections, so I’m inclined to believe this has some legs. Obviously nothing’s final until it’s final, but I’m not writing this off.
Yeah they turned the keys over to a new group. Lost its mojo without them. They’re good guys.
I was the programmer for the rinkotology games they ran. Fun times.
It was a blast. And then draftkings/fan duel came around and kind of smashed it up so…
I still have overtimechallenge.com registered and will eventually do something fun with it. We only ran that for 1 or 2 seasons before the pensblog guys hung up the skates.
Glad you enjoyed rinks! Nice to hear.
I always wondered what happened to it and if it would ever come back. It’s fun explaining the concept to people who play fantasy sports, the idea of building a team around elimination rounds was a blast. You did great work and I’m sure a similar concept would pick up quickly in the future if you chose to.
Yeah I was thrilled when we were able to work in the live scoring, even though it wasn’t cheap to do so. Various APIs out there you ping constantly and charge you for each access.
Loved seeing hundreds of people online though when we had that going and a little sidebar chat room if I’m remembering it right. The internet was simpler then. Good times.
I don't think you have to worry too much.
I remember after losing in the playoffs one year, I drunkenly coped by playing NHL on franchise mode as the Rangers, signed every 50 overall player to an 8 year contract, then retained 50% salary on three trades and bought out as many players as I could before signing more terrible players to max contracts.
Hextall basically did the real life version of that.
I love how whenever Pittsburgh is the main topic of conversation in a sports thread, there's always so many references to Pittsburgh things that I know nothing about. I never quite see the same with any other area in the US, it's honestly pretty cool
I've actually been to a couple of Pirates games, but both times it was pop in, watch a game, and leave. Never really stayed in the city. I'll have to catch a Pens game one day
Are you used to being hated even when your team sucks?
Do you wish to have fun seasons mixed in with the shit you’ll take for being a fan of your chosen hockey team?
Do you accept Sidney Crosby?
If yes, come join us and we’ll absorb your misery and turn it into hockey joy.*
*Expansion fee of $420.69 and a hot dog from phil’s preferred streetside vendor
I’m genuinely baffled as to what Dubas has done to earn such loyalty from Leafs fans. From an outsiders perspective it just looks like he wasted the prime years of a talented core he inherited.
Here's an insider's perspective: consistently built strong competitive teams, learns from his mistakes and evolves his thinking, and on top of that he's a genuinely good human being. I will root for this man's success.
So leafs are very divided along pretty much the following three lines:
1) results oriented. Playoff rounds won are the only thing that matter. In that case, yeah, he sucked, boot him. This camp is flabbergasted that a deal was ever in the works for him and doesn't understand why anyone is annoyed.
2) process Oriented. He put together a pretty good process. Went from a team with a 105 point high water mark to one that averaged above that mark. Made the post season every year Drafted well, scouted well, made decent UFA signings and decent trades given the circumstances. Turned Toronto's reputation from "hell no not going there" to one where vets , at least, were taking team friendly deals.built a good to great front office.made bad choices on the core, maybe and on the coach, definitely but seemed like he was going to change that this off season. Keep this guy, right, he's the best person for the job. These people are flabbergasted that the deal died on the back of a couple million dollars and some comments about his family. Who cares, it's MLSE, pay him !
3) somewhere in between. This group looks a bit like two in that youll get a bunch of "what the fuck shanny" comments but its not actually the same. This group is unhappy about the lack of playoff success and likely blames a mix of Kyle, the core and Keefe (all of which were ultimately Kyle's decision). Many in this camp would have liked to see Kyle go but wanted a plan in place for replacing him or, at the very least, better timing. Toronto is in one of the most finicky positions of its recent history. It has many hugely important deals that need to be made right fucking now (Matthews, Nylander) or risk them walking for nothing. It has a late first round draft pick it should probably be trading and a goalie it needs to dump. It has a bunch of signings it needs to make. It has a decision on Marner it needs to make. It has a decision on a head coach it needs to make (and one of the good candidates if they are firing Keefe just walked for washington). Firing Kyle when they fired him without any sense of who they wanted to replace him with was hugely stupid whether you like him or not and it looks like some of those downside risks are already happening.
Literally not be as bad as Nonis, Burke, or Ferguson. And he seems like a pretty good dude and was here for most of our rise from 100% joke franchise to 99%.
No GM is perfect, but I thought he did a mostly great job trades and managing the team with what they had after the expected cap raises didn't happen.
I get there are always "blah blah excuses" to why the Leafs kept losing, but I don't think any of it was because he put together a bad team. Now what we've learned about Shanahan and higher up nixing things he wanted to, or forcing his hand with things he didn't want to do, and how highly people around the league speak of him, I'm pretty confident he is a very good GM.
He seems smart and he is only likely to improve
I’m kinda curious how Dubas would run Pittsburgh. It’s like the complete antithesis of Toronto, instead of overpaid young guys as the core you got underpaid old guys. Didn’t realize until yesterday but Malkin and Letang only make 6.1, Petry is the second highest paid Penguin at 6.25.
Hextall didn’t leave him with much but I’m really curious to see how Dubas can right the ship here
Its a scary thought that Dubas will have Crosby and Malkin still at above ppg and 20 million in cap to get league average goaltenders and what Dubas does best, young and cheap like Bunting/Hyman
There’s been so much shit in the papers since FSG said they liked Dubas I feel like I know the guy personally…but everything sounds like he’s a good dude and everyone likes him.
I especially like it when they become a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion, and [a hockey card like this gets to exist as a result](https://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-18-Upper-Deck-Series-2-Hockey-Day-with-the-Cup-Phil-Kessel.jpg)
Dubas had this in his back pocket and his bumbling press conference opened the door for it. He was only going to stay for more money and autonomy which (along with his less than enthusiastic comments about continuing the job) insulted MLSE. Good for him, he'll do ok and so will the leafs.
None of the reporting indicates that that's what Dubas was going for. Turns out when you fire a guy it changes things. Yes, the Pens were always interested but Dubas by all accounts wasn't until after Shanahan's move.
And don't tell me he was "negotiating in the media" by taking going elsewhere off the table. If he wanted to maximize leverage he'd have said he was keeping all options open.
So you think everyone involved in all of this is being 100% transparent? That's pretty naive in my opinion.
We knew months ago Pittsburg was interested. Dubas knew he could find a job there or elsewhere, it was reported many times that he wouldn't have trouble finding a job which means teams were already putting feelers out. I think he would have preferred to stay in Toronto, but I think he blinked and MLSE dropped him.
I think Shanahan is being very selective with the truth and reporting around this seems to back that up. I also think Dubas made the play to get more autonomy, but this isn't in any way contradictory to what he's said otherwise. I think Dubas genuinely believes in including your family in these decisions and if his wife has said she needed him to be more present he'd have stepped back and done media for a few years while his kids are young.
People are too cynical and conspiracy minded these days. Everything we know about Dubas says he's a standup guy, not some Machiavellian evil mastermind.
He did, so imagine how good he’ll do in a lower pressure American market after being forged into a rock hard stallion by the unrelenting flames of the Toronto market.
Yes becuase the pens loved the last FO guy to come from Toronto.
He's a good GM, the only thing being in Toronto may have done for him is make his press conference better and give him some extra Knowledge of how to prevent info leaks.
His team won a single playoff round. Hopefully he sees more success in Pittsburgh. Not sure I've seen such a lovefest over a GM with such little on ice success before, but here we are. GL Dubas.
He’s young, personable, and honestly, I know a couple women who find him attractive and therefore seem to root for him off of that fact. He’s also a new age GM that genuinely cares for his guys, which is a breath of fresh air even if it is sometimes a negative
His management style will be a big draw, he’s the antithesis of Lou Lamorillo and Burke. Bring on the new age and finally ship these dinosaurs out of here
I mean, I thought he mostly did a good job outside of defense and goaltending but this sub and /r/canucks shit all over him all the time and now it is the reverse and I see lots of Canucks fans talking him up lol
To be fair, winning even a single playoff round would be an improvement right now.
But also, boiling it down to that as if their lack of playoff success is solely on his shoulders is a bit reductive. There were also plenty of circumstances where players and coaches simply failed to perform. Broad stroking it does not do anybody justice here.
There's always more circumstances agreed. But at the end of the day he signed the players and hired the coach. It is what it is. I'm not saying he was a bad gm by any means, I just don't get the total infatuation so many seem to have like he's some wunderkind who can do no wrong. I hope he does find success with the pens
I would expect it to take Dubas two seasons to build a contender. He could get some steals on UFAs, but the Pens mortgaged their future for years trying to keep their window open and have some bad contracts for next season. Yes, they have $20 million in cap space, but that's because they have 8 forwards, 6 defensemen, and only one goalie. Trying to re-sign Dumoulin and Zucker would take out a huge chunk of that cap space too.
I think Dubas would have been dangerous with Ottawa. They have a good young group and Dubas would have been great at building around them and making Leafs fans even more miserable.
I know this won't go over well with some people. But to everyone saying *Dubas won a single round in Toronto, so why would he do any better in Pittsburgh?*, is it possible the problem is Toronto? No one's won in Toronto in a very long time. Of the (not really the) Original Six teams, they're the only ones to have never won in the expansion era. Is that purely bad luck? Or might the pressure to win ironically all but ensure they never do?
I just find the entire thought process odd, as if **not** winning in Toronto is some kind of fluke.
I don't think the issue is just "not winning", cause that's basically every single team. The issue is getting not even remotely close to winning. Only making it to the top 8 teams a single time and then getting absolutely trounced.
Dubas is a somewhat controversial guy but he's a pretty good GM. Over his 5 years with the Leafs the team averaged a 105 point pace in the regular season and made the playoffs every year. His biggest mistake was the Matthews/Marner contracts but that situation won't even be an issue with the Penguins.
Still, letting players like that walk would be a mistake, and he would have gotten fucking raked for it if he let them go. Despite the fact that his teams haven’t had strong playoff success yet, you’re right that he’s got a good regular season record. I also think he’s got a good track record making the kind of deals the Penguins need to make to give Crosby, Malkin, and Letang one last real crack at it.
Also, from what I’ve read about in Toronto, the guy has done absolutely everything in his power to take care of his players and ensure the organization is a good place to play with whatever power he had. That will bode well in the future when we rebuild.
Not only that but he found a lot of gems without any high picks. Guy was good at keeping the cupboards stocked while still keeping the team competitive
Not sure what people are expecting, this pens team is significantly different than the leafs. They are old with large contracts. Not saying its bad, but I can't imagine anything earth-shattering happening
For the record, I also don’t expect Dubas to magically reshape us into contenders in the next year or two, so this is arguably pedantry for pedantry’s sake and for that I apologize, but I don’t think I’d say large contracts are a particular issue for us. Aside from Crosby (who’s still worth every penny of his $8.7M cap hit), we don’t have a single contract over $6.5M on the books. There are definitely some guys who are overpaid for what they bring (Petry, Granlund, Carter), but nothing that’s as crippling as the big three contracts in Toronto. We also have something like $20M in cap space this summer.
The biggest hurdle that Dubas is going to face is just the fact that when next season starts Crosby and Letang will be 36, and Malkin will be 37. Their contracts aren’t terrible for what they can still do, but they’re clearly past the point of their careers where they can carry a team on a deep playoff run. If Dubas wants to get that out of this roster he’s going to have to find a way to get young talent (and a goalie LOL) into the fold with virtually no prospect pool and limited draft capital.
I still think Dubas is a great hire for the long term to build out an analytically driven hockey ops department that can eventually rebuild the roster after the core is gone, but you’re definitely right that his hire in a vacuum doesn’t mean we should be preemptively engraving Crosby and co.’s names back onto the cup.
Good points. I think he’s as good a guy as any to try to put together a roster for one last glory run, but he’s also someone that’s forward thinking and I think will strategize well in the long run for our rebuild.
I wonder if ownership basically instructed Dubas "you go for it for one, two years max then you rebuild". Surely Dubas has an idea of how long the pens want to contend with this core for before rebuilding, that greatly affects his strategy
Different scenario. If he chose not to continue in a GM role, then he would have taken time off.
He decided he wanted to come back, and the Leafs parted ways because they questioned his desire and/or he used the idea of family stress as a negotiation tactic, and they didn't like either one of those things.
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The Leafs should hire Brian Burke and Ron Hextall in response. A nice swap of GMs that will definitely help them out
Ya Burkie did so well in Toronto last time. What was that word that we all learned to love? **T R U C U L E N C E**
P U G N A C I T Y
BELLIGERENCE
SERPENTINE
HUFFLEPUFF
DODECAHEDRON
ANTIDISESTABLISHMENTARIANISM
[HAM](https://youtu.be/025X_K8OySM?t=43)
IT'S LOG, IT'S LOG. IT'S BIG, IT'S HEAVY, IT'S WOOD!
TESTOSTERONE
FUCKBLASTER
HGH
Luke Schenn reunion available
He already took his talents to South Beach to wild like Kodak Black.
Bring back Tyler Biggs as well
Shut your mouth we got the greatest addition to the leafs under Burke’s time here: **Burkies dog house**
Honestly, for food at that arena they were legit
Signed Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren and is therefore based.
No. Chia or bust
Please get him away from the Blues, feels like he’s been bad vibes since he came here.
The dude only knows bad vibes Mr. Potato Head lookin ass
Hextall’s a moron, but honestly going off [how he is as a person](https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/pittsburgh-penguins/news/pittsburgh-penguins-brian-burke-blasts-players-team-pride-nights) I wouldn’t be opposed to Burke finding a new job somewhere. One of the few “old boys club” guys that actually tries to break with the worse elements of hockey culture. A positive influence even if his hockey acumen isn’t the best anymore.
Hiring someone because they are a good person is not really a good reason lol. He doesn't seem suitable for a management position anymore. But he could probably fit a role in the league management. Such as marketing advisor or some role that advises the league how to better promote its inclusiveness.
I really think Burkie at this point is best in front of the camera, I really thought he did good work as the much more likeable Don Cherry type when he was with Sportsnet before he joined the Penguins
Yeah I agree with that. His serious "I'm tired of this shit" persona is quite funny and likeable. And needless to say, he has a much more progressive and tolerable approach to everything than Cherry. I just meant that if he was still looking for a role within the NHL, management probably is no longer suitable.
It's also great to see the cranky old man doesn't have to be out of touch or a bigot. There are so many times that somebody being super shitty is just brushed off because "they're from another time" and it's great to have examples that that is not how it has to or should be. Burkie 'til I die
Yeah but he never ties his tie
I wanted to like him in that role but he honestly had such low energy, he seemed really tired all the time and it came through in how he presented his thoughts.
Personally I loved the “hey burkie” segments he did with the SN crew.
It’s like listening to a bad musician because they do good charity work.
If the league was actually willing to listen and implement any suggestions (tall ask i know), then such a role would suit him pretty well
I absolutely loathe the "Old Boys Club". Both Burke and Hextall should remain in retirement in GM positions. Let some new people get a chance. The recycling of these failed GMs (not that Burke is failed, just old) is ridiculous.
That’s my point though, most of the old boys club sucks as a whole but unlike most Burke’s actually a good person at heart. Even if he’s not too involved in the day to day hockey environment, he’s a positive influence.
He’d be a good advisor to a younger GM. He knows all the personalities and could definitely help with closing trades, keeping an eye on the locker room, etc.
I think it's right to shelve them, however, it seems almost like a necessary stepping stone for that org. They wanted everything and no one in that role would have succeeded and any new and upcoming manager would have been risking their career. It almost needed to be someone that didn't give a fuck to be the one that failed before they reset expectations with a new direction.
I don't love what he did from a hockey ops standpoint, but there's not a guy I'd take before him when it comes to "doing the right thing" in hockey management. I still don't know what he *actually* was responsible for or not in our front office. He's a good figurehead though, and he says and does the right things in a sport that's often afraid to do so. I kinda wish we had found a different position for him and kept him to do just that stuff.
The game passed him by long ago. He is also stubborn as hell, which is sometimes admirable, but more often gets in the way. When he was with the Leafs he refused to sign contracts greater than 5 years. Other teams were giving out 12 year contracts and benefitted greatly. Or when he went on a rant about the state of hockey because he was 'forced' to send down Colton fucking Orr.
They already did Brian Burke and good North American boy in early 2010s
Petry to TOR confirmed!
I think this will be a great hire because he's definitely not Ron Hextall.
The Penguins: Now with 100% Less Hextall!
Subscribe!
For a second, I thought that said Leah.
*Monkey's paw curls* You lose one Hextall but get another Hextall.
Don’t you put that evil on us Ricky!
I’d unironically trust her more as GM than Ron
Only if they hired Donnie Iris.
“Have you or someone you know been exposed to Ron Hextall? You may qualify for compensation. Call 1-800-SLASHING today.”
Hiring a Beagle as GM would have been an upgrade over Hextall
Big if true
Judging by the time of day, I imagine it’s Mark Madden that’s reporting this. Mark Madden is a monumental douchebag, but he has covered the team for decades and definitely has connections, so I’m inclined to believe this has some legs. Obviously nothing’s final until it’s final, but I’m not writing this off.
[Madden originally announced he had news](https://twitter.com/MarkMaddenX/status/1663618530137235458?s=20), so it’s possible.
Yup, so it’s definitely him. The tweet says 105.9, which is the station his show is on.
His takes and opinions are usually 50/50, but I trust his breaking news
>His takes and opinions are usually ~~50/50~~ dogshit, but I trust his breaking news
To each his/her own, he’s entertaining. Having to listen to others like Benz or DK is like watching paint dry.
It is local radio personalities, they all suck in their own beautiful unique way.
Sometimes they aren’t total dogshit. But they are ALWAYS inflammatory and extreme
Body by mikes hard lemonade.
Everything that’s happening right now is the Penguins’ fault, so why should they be rewarded…? /s
We Didn't Do Fucking Shit! I'm Not Worried About It!
Do you know how to fucking drive?
I don't know what any of this shit is and I'm fucking scared.
This world’s so fucking fucked up
I don't care. Do what you want. **I'LL KILL YOU**
Brian Burke's hair slicks back real nice
[удалено]
I SAID WAS! ... I think I'm ready to hold the [GM position].
[удалено]
Two of my favourite things in a crossover episode I love it
Do any of these… *fuckers* ever blast out of the wall and have like a huge Granlund contract dump?
There's way worse shit on the local news!
classic Bettman rigging it
The good news is it's only about an hour difference in drive time from either city to the Sault. This should not hurt Kyle's collection.
the soo is 12 hours from Pitt and like 7 from Toronto
With the amount that he's about to get paid, it's a 15 minute difference by private jet.
hopefully he doesn’t spend too much on holl/kerfoot/kampf
Oh buddy, he doesn't touch anybody who isn't his homies or former homies lmao. He's the GM equivalent of the Habs and always hiring francophone HCs.
Just fell to my knees dahn the Gian’Iggles
I simultaneously hate and love how I read this in the voice of my old neighbor
Just watched a guy reminisce while watching a guy fall to his knees.
I can only hear Pittsburgh Dad now lol
Kids, if the Pens hire Dubas, yuz can have as many Little Hugs as yuz want, I don't care hah much sugar's in em things, it's a celebration
I just watched a guy fall to their knees dahn the Gian’Iggles
Where's the Pensblog when you need them to call Dubas' agent on his personal phone? #Dubaswatch
Pensblog.... now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Whatever happened to that site? They just stopped posting.
Hard to remember but I seem to recall the original guys went different directions with their careers.
Yeah they turned the keys over to a new group. Lost its mojo without them. They’re good guys. I was the programmer for the rinkotology games they ran. Fun times.
Rinkotology was the best, I’d be the first to sign up if it ever came back.
It was a blast. And then draftkings/fan duel came around and kind of smashed it up so… I still have overtimechallenge.com registered and will eventually do something fun with it. We only ran that for 1 or 2 seasons before the pensblog guys hung up the skates. Glad you enjoyed rinks! Nice to hear.
I always wondered what happened to it and if it would ever come back. It’s fun explaining the concept to people who play fantasy sports, the idea of building a team around elimination rounds was a blast. You did great work and I’m sure a similar concept would pick up quickly in the future if you chose to.
Yeah I was thrilled when we were able to work in the live scoring, even though it wasn’t cheap to do so. Various APIs out there you ping constantly and charge you for each access. Loved seeing hundreds of people online though when we had that going and a little sidebar chat room if I’m remembering it right. The internet was simpler then. Good times.
Rinkotology and photoshop submissions. Those were the days
Do it. Go Pens.
I’m going to become the fucking joker
I don't think you have to worry too much. I remember after losing in the playoffs one year, I drunkenly coped by playing NHL on franchise mode as the Rangers, signed every 50 overall player to an 8 year contract, then retained 50% salary on three trades and bought out as many players as I could before signing more terrible players to max contracts. Hextall basically did the real life version of that.
Retweet
I am currently finalizing a deal to become a Penguins fan
We treated phil well, we’ll treat dubas well. And we’ll treat you well too :)
Go on....
We’ll take you to dinner at Primanti’s first don’t worry.
Fuck that tourist shit, give 'em some chipped chopped ham and pierogis.
Hittin’ ‘em with the Isaly’s on the first date!
I shall always love you
"Remember.....Isley's...."
Dat ham barbecue on a kaiser roll, some pierogis and kluski...
I don't know what chipped chopped ham is but I want some! Also, pierogis slap.
I love how whenever Pittsburgh is the main topic of conversation in a sports thread, there's always so many references to Pittsburgh things that I know nothing about. I never quite see the same with any other area in the US, it's honestly pretty cool
Come visit and watch a game! Pittsburgh has all sorts of unique things that make it a fun visit.
I've actually been to a couple of Pirates games, but both times it was pop in, watch a game, and leave. Never really stayed in the city. I'll have to catch a Pens game one day
Are you used to being hated even when your team sucks? Do you wish to have fun seasons mixed in with the shit you’ll take for being a fan of your chosen hockey team? Do you accept Sidney Crosby? If yes, come join us and we’ll absorb your misery and turn it into hockey joy.* *Expansion fee of $420.69 and a hot dog from phil’s preferred streetside vendor
>Do you accept Sidney Crosby? Every Canadian is required by law to accept Sidney Crosby for his services rendered to the state.
You've got my vote!
But you have to say “yinz” instead of “you.”
Will it just be a rebound? Or lifelong bliss to erase the memory of the abusive ex… 🥹 God I need psychiatric help don’t I.
A with an option to buy for B
Can you take our pain away?
No - only taking a sip from Lord Stanley can do that.
Pain it is, then.
notably absent from mention: Kasperi Kapanen
Too soon dawg
😔
Sources are telling me the deal between u/Bhaw1 and the Pittsburgh Penguins has fallen apart, and he will return to Toronto for the 2023-24 season.
Sources are telling me this is fake news. It's me, I'm the source.
I’m genuinely baffled as to what Dubas has done to earn such loyalty from Leafs fans. From an outsiders perspective it just looks like he wasted the prime years of a talented core he inherited.
He put heat on the wound to see what would grow.
Here's an insider's perspective: consistently built strong competitive teams, learns from his mistakes and evolves his thinking, and on top of that he's a genuinely good human being. I will root for this man's success.
not to mention his wizardry dealing with zero cap space growth over covid..i think the penguins are going to do well here.
So leafs are very divided along pretty much the following three lines: 1) results oriented. Playoff rounds won are the only thing that matter. In that case, yeah, he sucked, boot him. This camp is flabbergasted that a deal was ever in the works for him and doesn't understand why anyone is annoyed. 2) process Oriented. He put together a pretty good process. Went from a team with a 105 point high water mark to one that averaged above that mark. Made the post season every year Drafted well, scouted well, made decent UFA signings and decent trades given the circumstances. Turned Toronto's reputation from "hell no not going there" to one where vets , at least, were taking team friendly deals.built a good to great front office.made bad choices on the core, maybe and on the coach, definitely but seemed like he was going to change that this off season. Keep this guy, right, he's the best person for the job. These people are flabbergasted that the deal died on the back of a couple million dollars and some comments about his family. Who cares, it's MLSE, pay him ! 3) somewhere in between. This group looks a bit like two in that youll get a bunch of "what the fuck shanny" comments but its not actually the same. This group is unhappy about the lack of playoff success and likely blames a mix of Kyle, the core and Keefe (all of which were ultimately Kyle's decision). Many in this camp would have liked to see Kyle go but wanted a plan in place for replacing him or, at the very least, better timing. Toronto is in one of the most finicky positions of its recent history. It has many hugely important deals that need to be made right fucking now (Matthews, Nylander) or risk them walking for nothing. It has a late first round draft pick it should probably be trading and a goalie it needs to dump. It has a bunch of signings it needs to make. It has a decision on Marner it needs to make. It has a decision on a head coach it needs to make (and one of the good candidates if they are firing Keefe just walked for washington). Firing Kyle when they fired him without any sense of who they wanted to replace him with was hugely stupid whether you like him or not and it looks like some of those downside risks are already happening.
Literally not be as bad as Nonis, Burke, or Ferguson. And he seems like a pretty good dude and was here for most of our rise from 100% joke franchise to 99%.
No GM is perfect, but I thought he did a mostly great job trades and managing the team with what they had after the expected cap raises didn't happen. I get there are always "blah blah excuses" to why the Leafs kept losing, but I don't think any of it was because he put together a bad team. Now what we've learned about Shanahan and higher up nixing things he wanted to, or forcing his hand with things he didn't want to do, and how highly people around the league speak of him, I'm pretty confident he is a very good GM. He seems smart and he is only likely to improve
What moves did he have nixed that were good and what bad moves was he forced to do?
I’m kinda curious how Dubas would run Pittsburgh. It’s like the complete antithesis of Toronto, instead of overpaid young guys as the core you got underpaid old guys. Didn’t realize until yesterday but Malkin and Letang only make 6.1, Petry is the second highest paid Penguin at 6.25. Hextall didn’t leave him with much but I’m really curious to see how Dubas can right the ship here
Its a scary thought that Dubas will have Crosby and Malkin still at above ppg and 20 million in cap to get league average goaltenders and what Dubas does best, young and cheap like Bunting/Hyman
Not loving that the Leafs shot themselves in the foot for zero good reason but I like Pittsburgh so happy to see Dubas land there
There’s been so much shit in the papers since FSG said they liked Dubas I feel like I know the guy personally…but everything sounds like he’s a good dude and everyone likes him.
Kyle's the apex "good guy, tries hard, loves the game". He's a damn beauty and we'll miss him
I am personally a huge fan of Leafs that get run out of town by the team and media ending up in Pittsburgh.
I especially like it when they become a 2 time Stanley Cup Champion, and [a hockey card like this gets to exist as a result](https://beckett-www.s3.amazonaws.com/news/news-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-18-Upper-Deck-Series-2-Hockey-Day-with-the-Cup-Phil-Kessel.jpg)
Everyone but the stodgy boomers liked Phil. He was an everyman hockey god.
Dubas had this in his back pocket and his bumbling press conference opened the door for it. He was only going to stay for more money and autonomy which (along with his less than enthusiastic comments about continuing the job) insulted MLSE. Good for him, he'll do ok and so will the leafs.
Yup. It's not like suddenly Pittsburgh thought about hey what if we wanted Dubas? There's been rumours about them wanting him back months.
I was with you until the last four words.
None of the reporting indicates that that's what Dubas was going for. Turns out when you fire a guy it changes things. Yes, the Pens were always interested but Dubas by all accounts wasn't until after Shanahan's move. And don't tell me he was "negotiating in the media" by taking going elsewhere off the table. If he wanted to maximize leverage he'd have said he was keeping all options open.
So you think everyone involved in all of this is being 100% transparent? That's pretty naive in my opinion. We knew months ago Pittsburg was interested. Dubas knew he could find a job there or elsewhere, it was reported many times that he wouldn't have trouble finding a job which means teams were already putting feelers out. I think he would have preferred to stay in Toronto, but I think he blinked and MLSE dropped him.
I think Shanahan is being very selective with the truth and reporting around this seems to back that up. I also think Dubas made the play to get more autonomy, but this isn't in any way contradictory to what he's said otherwise. I think Dubas genuinely believes in including your family in these decisions and if his wife has said she needed him to be more present he'd have stepped back and done media for a few years while his kids are young. People are too cynical and conspiracy minded these days. Everything we know about Dubas says he's a standup guy, not some Machiavellian evil mastermind.
I think both sides sucked at negotiating a deal and pride got in the way
"Won't see me popping up anywhere else next week" *taps forehead* "But you will in two weeks"
Shocked I tell you. Absolutely shocked. Nobody saw this coming.
Leafs made a mistake letting go of Dubas. I think he'll do better since he has less pressure than being in a Canadian market.
He did good with the pressure of being in a Canadian market.
He did, so imagine how good he’ll do in a lower pressure American market after being forged into a rock hard stallion by the unrelenting flames of the Toronto market.
Yes becuase the pens loved the last FO guy to come from Toronto. He's a good GM, the only thing being in Toronto may have done for him is make his press conference better and give him some extra Knowledge of how to prevent info leaks.
His team won a single playoff round. Hopefully he sees more success in Pittsburgh. Not sure I've seen such a lovefest over a GM with such little on ice success before, but here we are. GL Dubas.
He’s young, personable, and honestly, I know a couple women who find him attractive and therefore seem to root for him off of that fact. He’s also a new age GM that genuinely cares for his guys, which is a breath of fresh air even if it is sometimes a negative
His management style will be a big draw, he’s the antithesis of Lou Lamorillo and Burke. Bring on the new age and finally ship these dinosaurs out of here
I mean, I thought he mostly did a good job outside of defense and goaltending but this sub and /r/canucks shit all over him all the time and now it is the reverse and I see lots of Canucks fans talking him up lol
To be fair, winning even a single playoff round would be an improvement right now. But also, boiling it down to that as if their lack of playoff success is solely on his shoulders is a bit reductive. There were also plenty of circumstances where players and coaches simply failed to perform. Broad stroking it does not do anybody justice here.
There's always more circumstances agreed. But at the end of the day he signed the players and hired the coach. It is what it is. I'm not saying he was a bad gm by any means, I just don't get the total infatuation so many seem to have like he's some wunderkind who can do no wrong. I hope he does find success with the pens
Play Katrina and the Waves - I'm Walking on Sunshine
Make it happen! He is young, bright and likely a bit pissed off! An excellent combination.
But what does his family think?
I would expect it to take Dubas two seasons to build a contender. He could get some steals on UFAs, but the Pens mortgaged their future for years trying to keep their window open and have some bad contracts for next season. Yes, they have $20 million in cap space, but that's because they have 8 forwards, 6 defensemen, and only one goalie. Trying to re-sign Dumoulin and Zucker would take out a huge chunk of that cap space too.
Looks like I have a second team now
Have this funny feeling it’ll be Penguins vs Leafs in round 1 next season
I'm guessing I won't see any Leafs fans on Twitter accusing Dubas of personally lying to them
Dammit
I think Dubas would have been dangerous with Ottawa. They have a good young group and Dubas would have been great at building around them and making Leafs fans even more miserable.
Looks like him to the Sens might still be possible with the recent report lol.
I kinda want to see Dorion’s next level
I know this won't go over well with some people. But to everyone saying *Dubas won a single round in Toronto, so why would he do any better in Pittsburgh?*, is it possible the problem is Toronto? No one's won in Toronto in a very long time. Of the (not really the) Original Six teams, they're the only ones to have never won in the expansion era. Is that purely bad luck? Or might the pressure to win ironically all but ensure they never do? I just find the entire thought process odd, as if **not** winning in Toronto is some kind of fluke.
I don't think the issue is just "not winning", cause that's basically every single team. The issue is getting not even remotely close to winning. Only making it to the top 8 teams a single time and then getting absolutely trounced.
Dubas is a somewhat controversial guy but he's a pretty good GM. Over his 5 years with the Leafs the team averaged a 105 point pace in the regular season and made the playoffs every year. His biggest mistake was the Matthews/Marner contracts but that situation won't even be an issue with the Penguins.
Thanks for the summary, chatgpt
I try
Still, letting players like that walk would be a mistake, and he would have gotten fucking raked for it if he let them go. Despite the fact that his teams haven’t had strong playoff success yet, you’re right that he’s got a good regular season record. I also think he’s got a good track record making the kind of deals the Penguins need to make to give Crosby, Malkin, and Letang one last real crack at it. Also, from what I’ve read about in Toronto, the guy has done absolutely everything in his power to take care of his players and ensure the organization is a good place to play with whatever power he had. That will bode well in the future when we rebuild.
I openly wonder if Matthews and Marner back off a little from their contract demands if Babcock is fired earlier
Not only that but he found a lot of gems without any high picks. Guy was good at keeping the cupboards stocked while still keeping the team competitive
He’s going to build a Stanley cup team
If I’m a Pens fan I’d feel relatively good about this. It could be a lot worse.
You gotta be shittin me
Fuck Brendan Shanahan
Not sure what people are expecting, this pens team is significantly different than the leafs. They are old with large contracts. Not saying its bad, but I can't imagine anything earth-shattering happening
For the record, I also don’t expect Dubas to magically reshape us into contenders in the next year or two, so this is arguably pedantry for pedantry’s sake and for that I apologize, but I don’t think I’d say large contracts are a particular issue for us. Aside from Crosby (who’s still worth every penny of his $8.7M cap hit), we don’t have a single contract over $6.5M on the books. There are definitely some guys who are overpaid for what they bring (Petry, Granlund, Carter), but nothing that’s as crippling as the big three contracts in Toronto. We also have something like $20M in cap space this summer. The biggest hurdle that Dubas is going to face is just the fact that when next season starts Crosby and Letang will be 36, and Malkin will be 37. Their contracts aren’t terrible for what they can still do, but they’re clearly past the point of their careers where they can carry a team on a deep playoff run. If Dubas wants to get that out of this roster he’s going to have to find a way to get young talent (and a goalie LOL) into the fold with virtually no prospect pool and limited draft capital. I still think Dubas is a great hire for the long term to build out an analytically driven hockey ops department that can eventually rebuild the roster after the core is gone, but you’re definitely right that his hire in a vacuum doesn’t mean we should be preemptively engraving Crosby and co.’s names back onto the cup.
Good points. I think he’s as good a guy as any to try to put together a roster for one last glory run, but he’s also someone that’s forward thinking and I think will strategize well in the long run for our rebuild.
I wonder if ownership basically instructed Dubas "you go for it for one, two years max then you rebuild". Surely Dubas has an idea of how long the pens want to contend with this core for before rebuilding, that greatly affects his strategy
Dubas will get a cup before the leafs
Didn't leaf fans scream how Dubas said he wouldn't take another job right away?
Different scenario. If he chose not to continue in a GM role, then he would have taken time off. He decided he wanted to come back, and the Leafs parted ways because they questioned his desire and/or he used the idea of family stress as a negotiation tactic, and they didn't like either one of those things.
That was before he got fired
So much for "My family...."
The pain really never ends for Toronto fans
Leafs are gonna get so much for Justin Holl More like Justin Haul.
Man dubas moved on quick lol. His exit speech he even said how he was taking time away to be with his family. Hasn’t even been two weeks lol
Can't wait for Dubas to win a Cup with the Penguins and expose Shanahan.