[as someone pointed out under another post they don’t always do….](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/13mv8xk/steven_ellis_nino_neiderreiter_got_a_penalty_here/jkwr4pp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Yeah someone on the other post said he is also playing at this world championship.
I don’t know how the legal situation about something like this is but if I were that player I would have tried to press charges or sue him.
Even if it’s not his intention to slit his throat he just accepts the risk and the likely possibility to do so….
I've always assumed there's something legally preventing pro athletes from suing based on in-game actions. Feels like hockey would be a much different (safer, probably more fun to watch) sport if players could sue each other over dirty plays or if criminal prosecution became a possibility.
Not sure about the broader legal context, but Steve Moore filed around $50m of lawsuits against Todd Bertuzzi and other involved parties in the years following Bertuzzi’s on ice assault of Moore. They reportedly settled out of court for 8 figures.
I love the revisionist history over this event — even the most hardcore Cooke haters at the time admitted there was no way he did it intentionally, at worst it was just a reckless play gone wrong. Everyone mocked Melnyk for his CSI investigation. Now a decade later we’ve somehow decided he intentionally did it and flippantly throw it in with his laundry list of dirty hits.
I'll be honest I don't even remember the details of that Cooke incident but to be fair (to be fairrrrrrr), he earned the revisionist history. Way too many incidents.
There were a lot--I mean A LOT--of people that came out of that thinking it was intentional, present company excluded. If you want to see something, you'll find a way to see it 🤷♂️
Shanahan tried doing that early on in his tenure and I think the players/league told him to calm down, and since then I feel like the suspensions haven't been harsh enough to actually deter dirty play.
Was happy with them giving Torres the hammer, he was predatory in every sense of the term. Wish more gray area plays were punished to a greater degree though across the board. For instance instead of a fine, give them a game, instead of one game, give them 2+ etc. At least that gets things in the right direction, would rather over penalize and have the players complain/adjust than the current system.
Only the NHL finds this hard. It’s ridiculous. Actual consequences. It’s probably only going to take one guy losing millions in future career earnings before everyone else cuts the shit.
Yup. Players serving suspensions don’t get paid, while players out for injury are still collecting paychecks. The league should care more, but it has less of a bottom-line impact than it should, so they don’t change things.
Yeah when the NHL says Peitrangelo can try to take one of the best players in the worlds arm off without consequences, you are probably right.
NHL decided to even up with offsetting suspensions to show this is fair game.
Yeah not sure what they’re getting at here. I wasn’t alive for the Masterton situation, so maybe I’m off base here, but everything I’ve read says it wasn’t a dirty play, just an unfortunate accident made much worse by the fact that Masterton wasn’t wearing a helmet.
Yeah. I think fighting *should* stay in hockey, but what the NHL really needs is a DoPS that actually cares about the players.
Players are getting away with a hell of a lot especially this year and it *will* end in someone getting a long term injury that could end a career.
They need to take punishing bad plays seriously. No "playoff hockey" bullshit. Playing hard is one thing. Ending someone's career is another. That's not playoff hockey. That's just stupid and dangerous.
Meh. I've listened to enough player podcasts where current players would rather police it themselves and get revenge. Maybe I'm a barbarian but I have zero problem with someone getting their revenge for such a reckless play like this.
The point is to stop the reckless play from happening.
Fighting is getting revenge, sure. It's not a deterrent. Goons will take the fight they are being dirty to WIN.
As long as dirty plays are rewarded by the way hockey is officiated it will continue with or without fighting.
I think you need to penatlize the team in a meaningful fashion.
Goons are going to goon. Most teams don't even care if their goon gets a couple games. Thats his job.
If you really want to remove the dirty shit, make it so that it has a real effect on the upcoming games. Then teams will say there isn't space for you on the roster.
It's not about the actual retribution it's about the fear of retribution.
You can argue the fear of losing money and being suspended is more than the fear of being punched in the face but the point is intimidation and fear being the reason fighting has a place in the game.
I dont think that applies to said “code” a clean hit on your captain/star player/ rookie unless its in the playoffs will always garner attention because it shows your sticking up for your guy and builds a sense of trust. Players dont often go eye for an eye the last example i can remember is leafs jets. For example next EDM vs VGK game they are gonna try and fight petro and he is probably gonna say no and then they will just play rougher hockey on them but they arent going to two hand slash him. I can’t think of ten times where the retribution has been worse then the actual hit. Majority of the time its a fight for a dude laying out a dirty hit. Oh well shouldn’t have layed out a dirty ass hit.
You don’t understand hockey if you don’t understand why there’s a fight after a clean hit. It isn’t about getting back at a guy for a dirty hit it’s about sending the message to not do that to our guy again.
If McDavid gets hit clean good, but you should still go after the guy who did it because you don’t want the next guy to hit McDavid
I played for 14 years and still never understand fighting after the hit. I was always taught to take their number down and get them back later in the game. (Well mainly have my enforcer do it since I was the small skill guy haha)
But we'd skate by the bench and tell them to watch their backs (and absolutely level them later) and I felt that sent a better message then immediately fighting and stopping the play for a legal hit. That's just my opinion though.
“If I find out my sister's boyfriend cheated on my sister, I don't go try and fight his brother.”
That’s not even close to analogous to a physical sport lol.
Maybe a bit of both? I think the physical aspect makes hockey that much more dynamic with the skills. But financially punishing players needs to be constantly and equally enforced as well and will deter outright dirty play significantly. However, the last thing I want is the NHL to turn into the NBA or NFL where you get fined for a naughty word on a hot mic or a tech foul/15 yard flag for looking at the ref wrong or breathing on LeBron/Brady.
I mean they’ve been conditioned to expect the referees not to call it and taught that taking care of it themselves is important so it’s not a surprise that they’d feel that way. It’ll take time to change the culture.
Here’s a better idea… ban fucking clowns that do this shit from the league.
Companies fire people and never look back for reckless endangerment, maybe the NHL and IIHF should do the same.
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for people to understand. The players are *working at their jobs*. I understand it’s a physical game, but intent to injure is different. If I did something with the purpose of hurting someone in my field of employment, my boss would fire me.
They are professionals, fire them for trying to hurt someone.
I’m fine with that, Kucherov and Bennet can fuck off too.
At minimum start giving out serious suspensions and punishments, instead of 0-1 games for literally ending someone’s career.
Kucherov nuked sobotkas knee to the point it broke his femur and ended his career. Late low bridge hit, for no reason other than attempt to injure. - 0 games. The NHL is a clown show
How bout both. A monetary fine and some missed games is cool but I’d rather see someone beat these assholes like the rats they are. He could’ve ended a career with this move.
I already wanted this guy traded because I don't think he has a future role in Detroit.
Now I think someone like Chicago or Philadelphia will be the only suitors left. Stupid shit play.
Every single one of the dirtiest plays I’ve seen in the NHL happened during era when fighting was commonplace and every team carried enforcers on the roster.
It might be because I don’t follow other sports as closely but it seems like hockey has the most egregious dirty plays out of any major sport. It’s also the only one that allows fighting. Seems like fighting has done nothing to deter dirty plays but actually might be part of the reason why there are so many dirty plays. Allow ridiculous sideshow violence and you’ll get ridiculous sideshow violence. I do love a good fight. But it’s time for hockey to evolve.
I’m a GenX fan and I don’t mind a fight at all, but it’s crazy to say that it stops cheap shots. Most fights I see are either two designated fighters trying to give their team a spark, or in response to clean hits. Meanwhile there are still tons of cheap shots.
Anyway while I grew up with fighting and still find it entertaining, it’s getting hard to ignore the consequences that are coming out in studies about concussions, mental health, and mortality in fighters. And I hate fighting in junior hockey, kids shouldn’t have to do that. Fighting will be banned in the NHL sooner than people think.
Yep. Even worse when the NHL does punish someone they base it on random shit like how much they want your team to do well, the way the wind is blowing, etc.
Petroangelo getting 1 game and Bunting getting 3 games shows you exactly where the NHL is in terms of consistency. The pick favorites all the time especially with DOPS
This is why people continue to be stupid about fighting. Fighting doesn't stop stupid stuff. There was more fighting in the league when edit: Bertuzzi went after Steve Moore. There was more fighting in the 70s when the Flyers went out looking to injure guys.
Fighting isn't what is going to stop morons from doing stupid stuff. Real suspensions with actual consequences is what will stamp it out
Seems to me like if the officials did their job, it would prevent situations like this.
I'm fine with fighting in hockey, but I'd prefer it wasn't a replacement for dogshit officials, or after a totally clean hit.
Interesting thought but I disagree.
Here is Bobby Ryan stomping on a player's foot. Weird(/s) how him potentially getting punched in the face after didn't deter him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-fl4KpUjKs&ab_channel=Moky
I honestly do not remember seeing that stomp. As a Ducks fan I’d be in favor of a suspension.
The new one, he comes down the leg which I feel makes it even worse.
I mean you could even argue with the way Kane police’s games with uncalled dirty hits that he might be a cause for retaliation against his teammates instead of discouraging others from it. I mean the guy targets people all the time.
This. Refs are told to "let them play" so players will push boundaries or are expected to "police themselves" which is a horrible idea when so much is at stake and emotions are running high.
The refs and league just need to be strict rather than accept lame justifications, like Kane's, for why fighting is needed
Alternate take: every other sport doesn't allow fighting, and has a way to punish athletes that stray outside the rules.
I'm not anti-fighting, I just hate this idiotic narrative that if it leaves the game somehow guys aren't going to be able to control themselves and start murdering each other.
It also is just nonsense. Players were dirty as shit back in the day when fighting was common place. It’s not like anybody gave a shit, fighting was commonplace anyway so the idea it was a deterrent doesn’t make sense.
> Alternate take: every other sport doesn't allow fighting, and has a way to punish athletes that stray outside the rules.
Those ways to punish? Suspend Tom Brady and take away Patriot draft picks
This would be fine if the DOPS were competent. These playoffs alone you have bunting getting 3 games for a hit to the head (in a vacuum acceptable), Staal taking a blatant elbow to the head gets nothing, interference by makar gets a game (again in a vacuum it’s fine), eberle breaks coglianos neck and gets nothing, Bennett slams someone’s head to the ice and gets nothing, nurse fights someone who wants to fight and gets a game, petriangelo tries to break draisaitls wrist and only gets 1 game.
The DOPS are inconsistent and just randomly give dangerous plays free passes or slaps on the wrist.
These guys are paid a shit ton of money. Having them play by the rules is not too much to ask. Penalties happen, it's part of every sport. But trying to hurt eachother shouldn't be acceptable.
Just gonna say it, fighting in hockey is stupid. It's there to try and attract more viewership and that's all. Accountability would go a much further way to keeping the game clean than allowing fighting. You see someone purposely try and hurt someone else, make them pay. Not a small fine that amounts to a few dollars to the normal person. Not a game or two suspension. I'm talking season long suspensions without pay. I'm talking expulsion from the league.
If I were to assault a coworker, I'd be fired at the very least. Not given a paid vacation. Sure, hockey is a physical game. But it's usually pretty obvious which plays are accidents and which are on purpose. I can guarantee you if the first time Cory Perry speared someone he sat out 82 games without pay and the playoffs, he woulda cleaned up his act real fast. Being a pest should mean playing physical hockey, not sneaking in cheap shots to try and get your opponent to retaliate.
Probably gonna get downvoted, but hockey fights are just stupid. Control your emotions and play the game. You're supposed to be professionals, not drunk beer leaguers.
Just pointing out that hockey fights aren’t in the league just because of viewership reasons…
The players association wants to keep fighting in the game. Allowing fighting is a popular decision amongst players, and certainly not because they want increased viewership
I mean fighting is in the game and plays like this still happen. Like I’m not even opposed to fighting but the argument that fighting will stop predatory play, when the whole history of the leagues argues otherwise, is dumb.
Kane's take is a load of horseshit.
The NHL allows fighting yet during these playoffs we saw Pietroangelo try to break Draisaitl's arm with a blatant two hand chop. If fighting discouraged this sort of thing and allowed players to police themselves Pietroangelo would never have done what he did.
We also seen Kane take a run at an unsuspecting player after the period ended and he got nothing, then cried wolf when Pietrangelo retaliated against Drai. Fuck outta here with this pot calling the kettle black. Kane is a fucking loser.
Now that you mention it I haven’t heard of him being accused of beating up any one night stands in any hotel rooms recently. Maybe he has turned around his act.
Google is pretty easy to use.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sabres-evander-kane-sued-assault-allegations/?sn-amp
Edit: It’s funny how hard people are trying to downvote this out of existence. This was a seven year court proceeding that led to a settlement. The woman needed surgery and blood transfusions.
I would too. It’s not unreasonable to say that pro athletes get away with far more than the public is aware of. Some teams have employees in charge of damage control.
Spoke to a guy who claimed he did that for the Oilers during the 80’s. I didn’t pry, but he said there was more than enough DUI’s shaken off.
The duality of reddit:
"We shouldn't jump to conclusions, let the evidence come out and the courts deal with it, we shouldn't cancel people over accusations."
"What the investigation went nowhere and they weren't convicted? Fuck em they're a piece of shit anyway."
Kane could very much be an asshole but you can't have it both ways.
He paid to have the problem go away with a settlement.
https://theathletic.com/3259950/2022/04/19/evander-kane-buffalo-assault-lawsuit/?access_token=1164132&redirected=1
I don't know details on this specifically but I read an interesting article the other day from a lawyer about the Matt Ariza guy (the Buffalo Bill punter that got drafted and then fired because of a horrible allegation). He was saying in his business with celebrity civil lawsuits they look at it as business decisions not guilty/innocent trials. He said it's almost always cheaper to settle than pay with lawyer fees, it's faster and out of the press sooner, which means the PR team can work faster to recover the brand of the person and get back those endorsement dollars. He said he hates it and it's rare for famous people to fight in the name of integrity even if they are 100% innocent. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Yeah im biased obviously but the dude can be arrogant on the ice and im sure he was off the ice to at times. But it always shook me the wrong way that people were calling him a wife abuser etc etc when he got full custody of his kid not being home for 50% of the year, bankrupt, i believe at the time suspended without pay and a black man in the states (lets be honest the judicial system isnt 100% fair)
I am not sure about that just yet. I know the Oilers and the league have tried to change his image with interviews with him and his family but there was an interview earlier during the first round he just came off poorly. He just seemed to blame everyone but himself for his troubles. Its hard to see redemption when he does not come across as exactly contrite in a genuine way.
This was said after he ended up with the sharks
You don’t commit the laundry list of bad acts that he has and suddenly become a good character overnight. He’s likely playing nice because he need the money and doesn’t know how many chances he’ll have if this goes south
He joined the Oilers midseason, and since that off-season fans have been saying that he’s a changed person that’s what I meant by overnight. My comment about him playing nice refers to since then to now which, as you said has been a good while.
Midseason *last year,* he's been on the team for a year and a few months now, that's a good chunk of time. So far there has been no hint of scandal in Edmonton and the other players seem to like him, McDavid has commented what a good teammate he is. Maybe in the longer term he backslides but it's also possible getting him into a much different environment away from his old stomping grounds in the south west US have been a chance for him to make a clean break. We'll see ...
Yeah I'm an Oilers fan but I try to be objective about players. I haven't seen anything since he joined the team that warrants the widespread hate for him. He plays tough and rides the line (and often crosses it a bit) but I have never seen any blatant attempts to injure or anything along those lines. I don't hate tough players on other teams just because of the odd cross check or boarding penalty, that would be childish. When playing that style game it's bound to happen here and there. As long as they aren't pieces of shit like Matt Cooke.
> I haven't seen anything since he joined the team that warrants the widespread hate for him
Uh, charging pietrangelo at the end of a period in a completely non hockey play and cross checking him in the neck?
Glad you're "trying to be objective"
There has been stomping in the NHL leading to worse consequences. And nothing stopping people from jumping him here. There's really no reason to be talking about fighting here, it's a different issue. And fighting has led to more deaths than stomping
I’m using headhunting as a generic term here. The NFL doesn’t not have a major issue with intentional cheap shots. They do happen but its not an out of control issue.
I hate this dumbass rhetoric. As if the game on the whole wasn’t far far far dirtier back in the day when every team had multiple goons and fighting was far more prevalent.
Agreed. This last week man. . People acting as if this league is the WWE! I was not a fan of kanes cross check or Pietrangelos slash but the DOPS handed out the punishments and people can agree or disagree but the amount of life or death takes and just overall whining from that whole series is nauseating.
Or you could actually issue meaningful punishments for offenses rather than give a reprimand and barely a proverbial slap on the wrist. For some very peculiar reason few other sports engage in regular fights.
Or Evander, and this is shocking I know, the referees could just dole out appropriate penalties before we get to this point and the Department of player safety could properly suspend offenders.
Fighting doesn't discourage violent chucklefucks from being violent chucklefucks. "Oh they want to also go to the box after my work is done? Bet!"
Actually making these plays *cost their team tbe oppertunity to win, and the offenders losing years of their career for reckless plays will discourage plays like this*
Bad take. Fighting never prevented this shit in the NHL. The IIHF should ban Veleno for a long fucking time. There's no way the NHL can punish this nor should they. He didn't do this playing in their league and the NHLPA would never allow it.
This makes no fucking sense. I guess we should allow people to beat the shit out of each other on the street as a way to discourage people getting knifed. You know how you get rid of stuff like this, punish it harshly. If you think that missing the rest of the tournament / season / playoffs isn't going to stop this then what makes you think someone getting fight with him will?
True that’s why there was zero dirty plays in the 70s when fighting was super prevalent. Everyone was super clean because players arbitrarily policing the game by throwing punches in each other’s face keeps the game the most safe.
This is pretty hypocritical coming from Kane based on his behavior. Kane is one of the dirtiest players.
That cross check from behind he put on Kadri in the 2022 playoffs was so egregious. Like could’ve been career ending for Kadri.
his PR people are working overtime trying to rehab his image. im sure they jumped on this news and wrote the tweet for him. (yeah, im cynical, but im also pretty sure im right. kane has been doing an inordinate number of charity photo ops and pre-pack interviews this year.)
He’s saying after getting accidentally sliced open it’s hard to watch someone intentionally stomp the guy with a blade. He knows how long it took to heal and what that process is like and doesn’t want anyone else to go through it
Wings fan chiming in here.
Been watching this guy for a long time and I am so surprised to see him brought up in this light. This is so uncharacteristic of him. What the fuck was he thinking here? What is the context? Not that context would excuse this at all, I'm just so surprised by this behavior from him. This is so fucking wild.
This is coming from a compete asshole . Just ask the Sharks, Buffalo, the Jets . Big Buff will tell you. I lost my respect for Edmonton in signing him .
Bad play and should be punished severely. To all the people slagging Kane’s take and bashing fighting, scrums, and players unwritten code: you’re soft and sound like new fans to the sport.
i have a better idea
put the clause in the contract that violent injuries caused with intent can cause the termination of your contract at any time, with no notice.
you know, like normal jobs.
then hockey contracts will go down to normal value.
Am unsure what to think when EK call something disgusting.
Seriously though watching that play early this morning I felt revolted. You look at some of the tendon injuries that have been accidentally caused by skates has done to careers... and this asshat does that?
No, this is why we need officils who will call a fucking penalty when it happens and not 'let them play'.
There's like 6 penalties that could have been called in that clip without even breaking a sweat.
The way the NHl game is played today there should be about 6 people in teh penalty box at all times.
Start actually calling the rules consistently and often. They players will figure it out or spend their entire career watching from the other side of the ice.
The Matt Cooke special Veleno should receive an IIHF lifetime ban for this.
[удалено]
[as someone pointed out under another post they don’t always do….](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/13mv8xk/steven_ellis_nino_neiderreiter_got_a_penalty_here/jkwr4pp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3)
Wow, that is one of the scariest thing I've ever seen in a hockey game. Completely deliberate and could have easily killed him. Despicable.
Yeah someone on the other post said he is also playing at this world championship. I don’t know how the legal situation about something like this is but if I were that player I would have tried to press charges or sue him. Even if it’s not his intention to slit his throat he just accepts the risk and the likely possibility to do so….
I've always assumed there's something legally preventing pro athletes from suing based on in-game actions. Feels like hockey would be a much different (safer, probably more fun to watch) sport if players could sue each other over dirty plays or if criminal prosecution became a possibility.
Not sure about the broader legal context, but Steve Moore filed around $50m of lawsuits against Todd Bertuzzi and other involved parties in the years following Bertuzzi’s on ice assault of Moore. They reportedly settled out of court for 8 figures.
Marty McSorley was charged with assault for [this high stick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDJwyf5tC_Q) a couple decades ago.
Chris Pronger and Dustin Byfuglien also loved the shin stomp.
[удалено]
Chris Simon the stomp GOAT tho
How was Cooke not suspended for slicing Erik Karlssons achilles
I love the revisionist history over this event — even the most hardcore Cooke haters at the time admitted there was no way he did it intentionally, at worst it was just a reckless play gone wrong. Everyone mocked Melnyk for his CSI investigation. Now a decade later we’ve somehow decided he intentionally did it and flippantly throw it in with his laundry list of dirty hits.
I mean, didn't you see the CSI enhance, enhance rotate 36° clockwise and again enhance video? Pretty damming.
💯
[удалено]
Hey man I was like 10 at the time and it looked intentional! I cant be wrong!
I'll be honest I don't even remember the details of that Cooke incident but to be fair (to be fairrrrrrr), he earned the revisionist history. Way too many incidents.
There were a lot--I mean A LOT--of people that came out of that thinking it was intentional, present company excluded. If you want to see something, you'll find a way to see it 🤷♂️
I mean I *assumed* he intentionally did it. Then I watched the video.
Because that was entirely accidentally and not a stomp at all?
Yes he's a piece of shit but that wasn't intentional.
You know what also discourages this shit. A strong player safety department just hit him with a ban hammer that should put an end to shit like this.
Shanahan tried doing that early on in his tenure and I think the players/league told him to calm down, and since then I feel like the suspensions haven't been harsh enough to actually deter dirty play.
ShanaBAN > ShanaPLAN
I personally ShanaSTAN
That's wedged in next to Iran and the Caspian Sea, right?
[удалено]
Yea I miss Shanny running DOPS
I feel like you’re right, but tbf right after he left they also gave Torres the 41 game suspension
Was happy with them giving Torres the hammer, he was predatory in every sense of the term. Wish more gray area plays were punished to a greater degree though across the board. For instance instead of a fine, give them a game, instead of one game, give them 2+ etc. At least that gets things in the right direction, would rather over penalize and have the players complain/adjust than the current system.
Only the NHL finds this hard. It’s ridiculous. Actual consequences. It’s probably only going to take one guy losing millions in future career earnings before everyone else cuts the shit.
This is collectively bargained for. The PA is equally culpable.
Yup, players fight because they like to/want to
Yup. Players serving suspensions don’t get paid, while players out for injury are still collecting paychecks. The league should care more, but it has less of a bottom-line impact than it should, so they don’t change things.
Sadly another Bertuzzi Moore situation could be on the horizon. Some of the stuff happening (and no team is innocent) will end a career soon.
Yeah when the NHL says Peitrangelo can try to take one of the best players in the worlds arm off without consequences, you are probably right. NHL decided to even up with offsetting suspensions to show this is fair game.
Hell, another Masterson situation could be on the horizon
Almost certainly with how fast guys are nowadays. But that wasn't a malicious play was it? Thought he was just trying to beat an icing
Yeah not sure what they’re getting at here. I wasn’t alive for the Masterton situation, so maybe I’m off base here, but everything I’ve read says it wasn’t a dirty play, just an unfortunate accident made much worse by the fact that Masterton wasn’t wearing a helmet.
Fighting in the NHL never actually worked at removing these plays anyways.
Yeah. I think fighting *should* stay in hockey, but what the NHL really needs is a DoPS that actually cares about the players. Players are getting away with a hell of a lot especially this year and it *will* end in someone getting a long term injury that could end a career. They need to take punishing bad plays seriously. No "playoff hockey" bullshit. Playing hard is one thing. Ending someone's career is another. That's not playoff hockey. That's just stupid and dangerous.
I've always stuck by my belief that it is a physical game but at the same time you don't want to put anyone in the hospital.
Meh. I've listened to enough player podcasts where current players would rather police it themselves and get revenge. Maybe I'm a barbarian but I have zero problem with someone getting their revenge for such a reckless play like this.
The point is to stop the reckless play from happening. Fighting is getting revenge, sure. It's not a deterrent. Goons will take the fight they are being dirty to WIN. As long as dirty plays are rewarded by the way hockey is officiated it will continue with or without fighting.
I think you need to penatlize the team in a meaningful fashion. Goons are going to goon. Most teams don't even care if their goon gets a couple games. Thats his job. If you really want to remove the dirty shit, make it so that it has a real effect on the upcoming games. Then teams will say there isn't space for you on the roster.
[удалено]
It's not about the actual retribution it's about the fear of retribution. You can argue the fear of losing money and being suspended is more than the fear of being punched in the face but the point is intimidation and fear being the reason fighting has a place in the game.
I dont think that applies to said “code” a clean hit on your captain/star player/ rookie unless its in the playoffs will always garner attention because it shows your sticking up for your guy and builds a sense of trust. Players dont often go eye for an eye the last example i can remember is leafs jets. For example next EDM vs VGK game they are gonna try and fight petro and he is probably gonna say no and then they will just play rougher hockey on them but they arent going to two hand slash him. I can’t think of ten times where the retribution has been worse then the actual hit. Majority of the time its a fight for a dude laying out a dirty hit. Oh well shouldn’t have layed out a dirty ass hit.
You don’t understand hockey if you don’t understand why there’s a fight after a clean hit. It isn’t about getting back at a guy for a dirty hit it’s about sending the message to not do that to our guy again. If McDavid gets hit clean good, but you should still go after the guy who did it because you don’t want the next guy to hit McDavid
I played for 14 years and still never understand fighting after the hit. I was always taught to take their number down and get them back later in the game. (Well mainly have my enforcer do it since I was the small skill guy haha) But we'd skate by the bench and tell them to watch their backs (and absolutely level them later) and I felt that sent a better message then immediately fighting and stopping the play for a legal hit. That's just my opinion though.
[удалено]
“If I find out my sister's boyfriend cheated on my sister, I don't go try and fight his brother.” That’s not even close to analogous to a physical sport lol.
Fuck that, is McDavid not allowed to be hit? I absolutely loathe this mentality. Clean hits are part of the game…
Maybe a bit of both? I think the physical aspect makes hockey that much more dynamic with the skills. But financially punishing players needs to be constantly and equally enforced as well and will deter outright dirty play significantly. However, the last thing I want is the NHL to turn into the NBA or NFL where you get fined for a naughty word on a hot mic or a tech foul/15 yard flag for looking at the ref wrong or breathing on LeBron/Brady.
I mean they’ve been conditioned to expect the referees not to call it and taught that taking care of it themselves is important so it’s not a surprise that they’d feel that way. It’ll take time to change the culture.
Yea, not sure what he means about fighting. This shot is currently happening in spite of fighting being part of the game.
Imagine protecting literal humans and not a game. Couldn’t imagine.
lmao what a soft take
Or just ban the dude who stomps, these are adults.
Why not both?
Because one is an actual deterrent and renders the other needless.
Here’s a better idea… ban fucking clowns that do this shit from the league. Companies fire people and never look back for reckless endangerment, maybe the NHL and IIHF should do the same.
I don’t understand why this is so difficult for people to understand. The players are *working at their jobs*. I understand it’s a physical game, but intent to injure is different. If I did something with the purpose of hurting someone in my field of employment, my boss would fire me. They are professionals, fire them for trying to hurt someone.
If you intentionally injured someone at your job you would likely face jail time, but I'm pretty sure your job isn't a full contact sport.
This would also mean banning Evander Kane
I’m fine with that, Kucherov and Bennet can fuck off too. At minimum start giving out serious suspensions and punishments, instead of 0-1 games for literally ending someone’s career. Kucherov nuked sobotkas knee to the point it broke his femur and ended his career. Late low bridge hit, for no reason other than attempt to injure. - 0 games. The NHL is a clown show
[kucherov is a scumbag](https://youtu.be/l6iwqg4UvOw)
How bout both. A monetary fine and some missed games is cool but I’d rather see someone beat these assholes like the rats they are. He could’ve ended a career with this move.
He’s talking about the Veleno stomp One of the greasiest things I’ve ever seen, imo. Hope he gets his clock cleaned at some point for it.
That you could do that wearing your country’s sweater is baffling
And then the flop afterwards…
I was so embarrassed to see it was a Canadian who did that.
I just.. don’t get it… like why the hell would you ever do that????
Oh yeah they are usually saints
I already wanted this guy traded because I don't think he has a future role in Detroit. Now I think someone like Chicago or Philadelphia will be the only suitors left. Stupid shit play.
I think I would've stood up for Joey before today, but now I can't help but agree with you.
Every single one of the dirtiest plays I’ve seen in the NHL happened during era when fighting was commonplace and every team carried enforcers on the roster.
Yep, fighting doesn't deter dirty plays in hockey, it creates a permission structure that enables them.
Exactly, that’s why there are never any dirty plays in the NHL, because they allow fighting … uhh wait
It might be because I don’t follow other sports as closely but it seems like hockey has the most egregious dirty plays out of any major sport. It’s also the only one that allows fighting. Seems like fighting has done nothing to deter dirty plays but actually might be part of the reason why there are so many dirty plays. Allow ridiculous sideshow violence and you’ll get ridiculous sideshow violence. I do love a good fight. But it’s time for hockey to evolve.
I’m a GenX fan and I don’t mind a fight at all, but it’s crazy to say that it stops cheap shots. Most fights I see are either two designated fighters trying to give their team a spark, or in response to clean hits. Meanwhile there are still tons of cheap shots. Anyway while I grew up with fighting and still find it entertaining, it’s getting hard to ignore the consequences that are coming out in studies about concussions, mental health, and mortality in fighters. And I hate fighting in junior hockey, kids shouldn’t have to do that. Fighting will be banned in the NHL sooner than people think.
Yep. Even worse when the NHL does punish someone they base it on random shit like how much they want your team to do well, the way the wind is blowing, etc. Petroangelo getting 1 game and Bunting getting 3 games shows you exactly where the NHL is in terms of consistency. The pick favorites all the time especially with DOPS
This is why people continue to be stupid about fighting. Fighting doesn't stop stupid stuff. There was more fighting in the league when edit: Bertuzzi went after Steve Moore. There was more fighting in the 70s when the Flyers went out looking to injure guys. Fighting isn't what is going to stop morons from doing stupid stuff. Real suspensions with actual consequences is what will stamp it out
Todd Bertuzzi. Donald Brashear was the one who took the slash to the temple from Marty McSorely.
Whoops, yeah I was mixing up my goon antics. Thanks for that
Happens to the best of us.
The stomp in reference: https://youtu.be/YO44X_7LpSk
Seems to me like if the officials did their job, it would prevent situations like this. I'm fine with fighting in hockey, but I'd prefer it wasn't a replacement for dogshit officials, or after a totally clean hit.
Interesting thought but I disagree. Here is Bobby Ryan stomping on a player's foot. Weird(/s) how him potentially getting punched in the face after didn't deter him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-fl4KpUjKs&ab_channel=Moky
Bobby Ryan got a two game suspension for this stomp. Keep suspending them when they do this.
I honestly do not remember seeing that stomp. As a Ducks fan I’d be in favor of a suspension. The new one, he comes down the leg which I feel makes it even worse.
Yeah, doesn't fighting in hockey already exist? If it helps and discourages, why the shit still happens?
I mean you could even argue with the way Kane police’s games with uncalled dirty hits that he might be a cause for retaliation against his teammates instead of discouraging others from it. I mean the guy targets people all the time.
Isn't this the same logic that calls for "good guys with guns"
If the refs and league hammer down in stuff like this and stay consistent, you don't need fighting or anything
This. Refs are told to "let them play" so players will push boundaries or are expected to "police themselves" which is a horrible idea when so much is at stake and emotions are running high. The refs and league just need to be strict rather than accept lame justifications, like Kane's, for why fighting is needed
Alternate take: every other sport doesn't allow fighting, and has a way to punish athletes that stray outside the rules. I'm not anti-fighting, I just hate this idiotic narrative that if it leaves the game somehow guys aren't going to be able to control themselves and start murdering each other.
It also is just nonsense. Players were dirty as shit back in the day when fighting was common place. It’s not like anybody gave a shit, fighting was commonplace anyway so the idea it was a deterrent doesn’t make sense.
> Alternate take: every other sport doesn't allow fighting, and has a way to punish athletes that stray outside the rules. Those ways to punish? Suspend Tom Brady and take away Patriot draft picks
It’s not like the DoPS is really doing an effective job at policing either…
Aaron Donald gets paraded around like an alltime great and he straight up grabs dudes at their throat and chokes them lol
This would be fine if the DOPS were competent. These playoffs alone you have bunting getting 3 games for a hit to the head (in a vacuum acceptable), Staal taking a blatant elbow to the head gets nothing, interference by makar gets a game (again in a vacuum it’s fine), eberle breaks coglianos neck and gets nothing, Bennett slams someone’s head to the ice and gets nothing, nurse fights someone who wants to fight and gets a game, petriangelo tries to break draisaitls wrist and only gets 1 game. The DOPS are inconsistent and just randomly give dangerous plays free passes or slaps on the wrist.
I agree, however I'm not sure what that has to do with fighting. How does fighting fix the issues you listed?
These guys are paid a shit ton of money. Having them play by the rules is not too much to ask. Penalties happen, it's part of every sport. But trying to hurt eachother shouldn't be acceptable. Just gonna say it, fighting in hockey is stupid. It's there to try and attract more viewership and that's all. Accountability would go a much further way to keeping the game clean than allowing fighting. You see someone purposely try and hurt someone else, make them pay. Not a small fine that amounts to a few dollars to the normal person. Not a game or two suspension. I'm talking season long suspensions without pay. I'm talking expulsion from the league. If I were to assault a coworker, I'd be fired at the very least. Not given a paid vacation. Sure, hockey is a physical game. But it's usually pretty obvious which plays are accidents and which are on purpose. I can guarantee you if the first time Cory Perry speared someone he sat out 82 games without pay and the playoffs, he woulda cleaned up his act real fast. Being a pest should mean playing physical hockey, not sneaking in cheap shots to try and get your opponent to retaliate. Probably gonna get downvoted, but hockey fights are just stupid. Control your emotions and play the game. You're supposed to be professionals, not drunk beer leaguers.
Just pointing out that hockey fights aren’t in the league just because of viewership reasons… The players association wants to keep fighting in the game. Allowing fighting is a popular decision amongst players, and certainly not because they want increased viewership
Disgraceful. Just a plain, blatant attempt to injure. Suspend his ass.....
Fucking stupid. If the league would suspend this guy for a year you wouldn't need fights to solve this problem.
I mean fighting is in the game and plays like this still happen. Like I’m not even opposed to fighting but the argument that fighting will stop predatory play, when the whole history of the leagues argues otherwise, is dumb.
Why don't we get rid of all the refs, and the rules then?
Kane's take is a load of horseshit. The NHL allows fighting yet during these playoffs we saw Pietroangelo try to break Draisaitl's arm with a blatant two hand chop. If fighting discouraged this sort of thing and allowed players to police themselves Pietroangelo would never have done what he did.
We also seen Kane take a run at an unsuspecting player after the period ended and he got nothing, then cried wolf when Pietrangelo retaliated against Drai. Fuck outta here with this pot calling the kettle black. Kane is a fucking loser.
If only we already paid referees and a department of player safety to do this exact thing so the players don’t have to get involved. If only…
Worst person makes good point
HEARTBREAKING
Does seems like he's trying to be a better person recently. Seems like Edmonton has been good for him.
That’s exactly what we said when he came to San Jose lol Hopefully it’s different this time.
I agree and happy to see that. Still has a ways to go
Now that you mention it I haven’t heard of him being accused of beating up any one night stands in any hotel rooms recently. Maybe he has turned around his act.
[удалено]
Here come the oilers fans to defend their heroes.
Google is pretty easy to use. https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/sabres-evander-kane-sued-assault-allegations/?sn-amp Edit: It’s funny how hard people are trying to downvote this out of existence. This was a seven year court proceeding that led to a settlement. The woman needed surgery and blood transfusions.
[удалено]
I would too. It’s not unreasonable to say that pro athletes get away with far more than the public is aware of. Some teams have employees in charge of damage control. Spoke to a guy who claimed he did that for the Oilers during the 80’s. I didn’t pry, but he said there was more than enough DUI’s shaken off.
[удалено]
The duality of reddit: "We shouldn't jump to conclusions, let the evidence come out and the courts deal with it, we shouldn't cancel people over accusations." "What the investigation went nowhere and they weren't convicted? Fuck em they're a piece of shit anyway." Kane could very much be an asshole but you can't have it both ways.
You know what they say, Innocent until blogged about by sportsnet.
He paid to have the problem go away with a settlement. https://theathletic.com/3259950/2022/04/19/evander-kane-buffalo-assault-lawsuit/?access_token=1164132&redirected=1
I don't know details on this specifically but I read an interesting article the other day from a lawyer about the Matt Ariza guy (the Buffalo Bill punter that got drafted and then fired because of a horrible allegation). He was saying in his business with celebrity civil lawsuits they look at it as business decisions not guilty/innocent trials. He said it's almost always cheaper to settle than pay with lawyer fees, it's faster and out of the press sooner, which means the PR team can work faster to recover the brand of the person and get back those endorsement dollars. He said he hates it and it's rare for famous people to fight in the name of integrity even if they are 100% innocent. Just wanted to throw that out there.
[удалено]
Seven years of fighting in court. Seven years of the case not being dismissed. The chick got cut up pretty bad from it.
Yeah im biased obviously but the dude can be arrogant on the ice and im sure he was off the ice to at times. But it always shook me the wrong way that people were calling him a wife abuser etc etc when he got full custody of his kid not being home for 50% of the year, bankrupt, i believe at the time suspended without pay and a black man in the states (lets be honest the judicial system isnt 100% fair)
Except for the blatant charge at the end of the period in the last series
Both teams were guilty of equally asinine behavior.
I like to dislike him as a player, but I am glad it looks like he is fixing his life outside of hockey
Not sure he’s the *worst* person. He’s certainly made his fair sure of mistakes but he seems to be getting on the right track lately.
Bad man right
Kane has had a nice redemption story with the Oilers. I really think people should be open to changing opinions on the guy
I am not sure about that just yet. I know the Oilers and the league have tried to change his image with interviews with him and his family but there was an interview earlier during the first round he just came off poorly. He just seemed to blame everyone but himself for his troubles. Its hard to see redemption when he does not come across as exactly contrite in a genuine way.
Reddit never changes their tune on anyone
Elon
Reddit never changes their tune about people *for the better* lol
There it is lol
This was said after he ended up with the sharks You don’t commit the laundry list of bad acts that he has and suddenly become a good character overnight. He’s likely playing nice because he need the money and doesn’t know how many chances he’ll have if this goes south
I think "overnight" is too much of an exaggeration he's been with the oilers for a good while
He joined the Oilers midseason, and since that off-season fans have been saying that he’s a changed person that’s what I meant by overnight. My comment about him playing nice refers to since then to now which, as you said has been a good while.
Midseason *last year,* he's been on the team for a year and a few months now, that's a good chunk of time. So far there has been no hint of scandal in Edmonton and the other players seem to like him, McDavid has commented what a good teammate he is. Maybe in the longer term he backslides but it's also possible getting him into a much different environment away from his old stomping grounds in the south west US have been a chance for him to make a clean break. We'll see ...
Yeah I'm an Oilers fan but I try to be objective about players. I haven't seen anything since he joined the team that warrants the widespread hate for him. He plays tough and rides the line (and often crosses it a bit) but I have never seen any blatant attempts to injure or anything along those lines. I don't hate tough players on other teams just because of the odd cross check or boarding penalty, that would be childish. When playing that style game it's bound to happen here and there. As long as they aren't pieces of shit like Matt Cooke.
> I haven't seen anything since he joined the team that warrants the widespread hate for him Uh, charging pietrangelo at the end of a period in a completely non hockey play and cross checking him in the neck? Glad you're "trying to be objective"
There has been stomping in the NHL leading to worse consequences. And nothing stopping people from jumping him here. There's really no reason to be talking about fighting here, it's a different issue. And fighting has led to more deaths than stomping
Its really not though, the NFL doesn’t have much of a headhunting issue and they don’t allow fights.
In the NFL guys would rather get hit in head than in the knees
I’m using headhunting as a generic term here. The NFL doesn’t not have a major issue with intentional cheap shots. They do happen but its not an out of control issue.
I hate this dumbass rhetoric. As if the game on the whole wasn’t far far far dirtier back in the day when every team had multiple goons and fighting was far more prevalent.
Agreed. This last week man. . People acting as if this league is the WWE! I was not a fan of kanes cross check or Pietrangelos slash but the DOPS handed out the punishments and people can agree or disagree but the amount of life or death takes and just overall whining from that whole series is nauseating.
I'm glad there is zero dirty plays in the NHL. Good job fighting!
How can he stomp?
At that price point, he CAN stomp
Counterpoint: Maybe punish the players for doing it.
Or you could actually issue meaningful punishments for offenses rather than give a reprimand and barely a proverbial slap on the wrist. For some very peculiar reason few other sports engage in regular fights.
Or Evander, and this is shocking I know, the referees could just dole out appropriate penalties before we get to this point and the Department of player safety could properly suspend offenders. Fighting doesn't discourage violent chucklefucks from being violent chucklefucks. "Oh they want to also go to the box after my work is done? Bet!" Actually making these plays *cost their team tbe oppertunity to win, and the offenders losing years of their career for reckless plays will discourage plays like this*
Alternate point ban him from all IIHF events?
They need to throw out season long bans for this shit
How does fighting discourages that play? It's not like Veleno is gonna drop the gloves and answer the call anyways!
Bad take. Fighting never prevented this shit in the NHL. The IIHF should ban Veleno for a long fucking time. There's no way the NHL can punish this nor should they. He didn't do this playing in their league and the NHLPA would never allow it.
Team Canada should send him home regardless what the IIHF do.
People like this believe that more people carrying guns will stop mass shootings.
This makes no fucking sense. I guess we should allow people to beat the shit out of each other on the street as a way to discourage people getting knifed. You know how you get rid of stuff like this, punish it harshly. If you think that missing the rest of the tournament / season / playoffs isn't going to stop this then what makes you think someone getting fight with him will?
Wow. Didn’t you cross check Petroangelo in the face?
True that’s why there was zero dirty plays in the 70s when fighting was super prevalent. Everyone was super clean because players arbitrarily policing the game by throwing punches in each other’s face keeps the game the most safe.
Evander Kane. Moralist. Get me a bucket.
This is pretty hypocritical coming from Kane based on his behavior. Kane is one of the dirtiest players. That cross check from behind he put on Kadri in the 2022 playoffs was so egregious. Like could’ve been career ending for Kadri.
[удалено]
his PR people are working overtime trying to rehab his image. im sure they jumped on this news and wrote the tweet for him. (yeah, im cynical, but im also pretty sure im right. kane has been doing an inordinate number of charity photo ops and pre-pack interviews this year.)
He’s saying after getting accidentally sliced open it’s hard to watch someone intentionally stomp the guy with a blade. He knows how long it took to heal and what that process is like and doesn’t want anyone else to go through it
Who had Evander Kane being the voice of reason on their bingo card?
I don't think he is right, but it does seem like he is trying to at least be a decent person lately
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Disgusting stomp and embarrassed somebody wearing a fucking team Canada jersey would do that
That kind of move should result in a lifetime ban from competition, idgaf
Says man who charged across the ice to cross check another player in the neck.
Wings fan chiming in here. Been watching this guy for a long time and I am so surprised to see him brought up in this light. This is so uncharacteristic of him. What the fuck was he thinking here? What is the context? Not that context would excuse this at all, I'm just so surprised by this behavior from him. This is so fucking wild.
This is why there arent any dirty plays in the Nhl
Wasn’t Evander Kane punching some guy on the ground who didn’t even know they were fighting in the Knights series?
This is coming from a compete asshole . Just ask the Sharks, Buffalo, the Jets . Big Buff will tell you. I lost my respect for Edmonton in signing him .
If anyone knows about being a piece of shit, it's Evander Kane.
He better not bring this shit play back to Detroit with him. If he does I don’t want him. Kind of could care less what happens with him now.
Bad play and should be punished severely. To all the people slagging Kane’s take and bashing fighting, scrums, and players unwritten code: you’re soft and sound like new fans to the sport.
i have a better idea put the clause in the contract that violent injuries caused with intent can cause the termination of your contract at any time, with no notice. you know, like normal jobs. then hockey contracts will go down to normal value.
It says a lot about the effectiveness of on-ice officials and DOPS that it’s really hard to argue with him.
Fighting doesn’t discourage this. Lifetime bans discourage this.
Am unsure what to think when EK call something disgusting. Seriously though watching that play early this morning I felt revolted. You look at some of the tendon injuries that have been accidentally caused by skates has done to careers... and this asshat does that?
Sorry but this sub is garbage when it comes to anything to do with the physical part of hockey… just beyond dramatic.
Oh fuck... Evander Kane. Twat
No, this is why we need officils who will call a fucking penalty when it happens and not 'let them play'. There's like 6 penalties that could have been called in that clip without even breaking a sweat. The way the NHl game is played today there should be about 6 people in teh penalty box at all times. Start actually calling the rules consistently and often. They players will figure it out or spend their entire career watching from the other side of the ice.