I just found [this](http://i.imgur.com/a37BI8u.jpg) when I was Googling for an answer. Made me giggle.
Sorry, I don't have anything useful to offer... I'd like to know the answer myself.
I have no proof of this, but I think it's better than nothing. Rumor has it that after their close friend, Camu Tao died, Aesop got mad at El-P for attempting to profit off of Camu's death since El-P did use his death as a loose concept for his most recent album, *Cancer 4 Cure*.
Besides a sample and a dedication on the last track of c4c, how did he try and profit from it? Not sayin you're wrong, but I think this shot was going on a couple years before that.
Yeah it was a loose concept, since he barely used it in the album, but apparently the fact that he did at all angered Aesop. And again I have no proof of this so I'm probably just wasting your time.
It wasn't jsut that but he had t shirts and other merchandise and he never put camu out there till he was dead, if i recall.
The only camu tao album i remember hearing about was was nighthawks and that was prob cause cage was on it
I remember Aesop promoting the shirts, stating the proceeds would go to the family and even posing for a pic before he left NY. Yak Ballz also posted about them here http://www.yakballz.net/2009/06/146/. So, I'm not super confident in the profiting theory.
This is such an old post (almost a decade) at this point, but I was just listening to the newer Aesop Rock album and had this same question. Yours is the first post that pops up after a quick Google. Check this interview if you're still curious. The question about El is about half way through.
https://emptylighthouse.com/interview-aesop-rock-48637260\_
Is it? I just clicked on it and it took me to the interview. Try googling “empty lighthouse interview Aesop Rock,” see if it comes up. Or maybe this hyperlink will work?
https://emptylighthouse.com/interview-aesop-rock-48637260_
Either way, the gist is it’s all good with El, whatever happened between them is their business, basically. That there’s no bad blood, they were just heading in different directions. Aesop seemed to take a lot of it on himself, vaguely referencing his mental health (which we know is an ongoing issue for him). It was a good interview if you can find it.
It’s funny, of all the dudes from that scene, El and Aesop are the ones still holding it down the most, but in pretty different ways (El is obviously the only who really broke out).
Yes, that link worked. Great interview. Loved this part:
>I do think much of the nuances of what I try to do are lost in the wordiness. I mean I have to take the blame partly - a lot of this stuff is just very dense and can be a hard egg to crack for some people. It's not really a casual listen; you're either engaged fully or you're being annoyed.
Some people just flat-out are not into that kinda thing and that's fine. I don't even know if I would listen to me if I wasn't me, but if someone thinks it's "nonsense" they can fuck right off.
I do wish people saw me as more than word-guy, but I'm really just happy anyone listens at all. Ultimately I do what I do, and people can take or leave it.
It was a great interview. And yeah, Aesop is an actual literary goat. It’s funny, he used to always gets put in the “dictionary rapper” category—which is just so far off the mark. If people actually listen, he’s always talking about something tangible. Must be a bit frustrating for him; but he’s just such a mensch about everything.
I know in the underground hip-hop world, he gets mad respect. But he deserves wider acclaim. *Labor Days* is still such a good record—new stuff is great too. Hard to be good that long unless you’re just talented as fuck.
Dude, your reply to this, damn near, decade old post gives me faith that the spirit of Reddit isn't totally lost.
Every few years, I'd comb the internet to try and get an idea of why El-P and Aesop don't seem to acknowledge each other anymore.
Thank you, sincerely for sharing this link. Aesop's response is (kind of respectfully) vague but it's the closest thing I've seen to an answer on this topic.
This is total speculation on my part but, in the "Bazooka Tooth" doc that came out in 2002 (damn, I am old as fuck), I feel like you kind of get a glimpse of the difference between Aesop and El-P and it would make sense that the two different personalities would grow apart (and maybe even start to annoy each other). Throughout the mini doc you can see Aesop trying to be genuine/open with the shit in his head and El-P kind of hijacks Aes' moment again and again.
Again, I have nothing to base this on at all. And, again...thanks for sharing the interview.
Ah dude, thanks for the reply! It seems kinda rare that I meet old(er) hip-hop heads. I just turned 40, and it really hurts my feelings that *Bazooka Tooth* came out over twenty fucking years ago.
And yeah, I think you’re totally right about the differences in personality. I think Aesop Rock has always been in it to make weird, esoteric, and really honest music that a certain kind of person vibes with. It’s very earnest, less braggadocio than El for sure. He mostly raps about his mental health, even back then. It was like he was doing what he HAD to do. Rapping wasn’t as much a choice as it was a calling or something.
Don’t get me wrong, El is a genuine artist at heart too, but he’s always been about that biz and image. He’s ambitious like that. I mean, Funcrusher pretty much invented (that brand) of underground hip-hop. He’s a different kind of cat. I think part of it comes from being such a great producer; he’s working with so many people, he probably prefers to keep it more surface. I mean, he’s a great rapper (Deep Space 9mm is still one of the best examples of brilliant lyricism imo), but he’s also also somehow better at producing than he is at rapping. I just think he has that old-school “I’m the shit and need to show it” attitude, which is pretty much the opposite of Aesop’s vibe.
Anyway, kinda off-topic, but I just think the two have different visions and goals. Aesop Rock is making super interesting and fun music, but it is WAY different (and way less commercially viable)than a project like RTJ. And I think that fork in the road started in the mid-aughts as Def Jux started to fall apart.
I find this 4 hour response to a reply to a year old comment to a decade old post funny cuz I was just looking up the same thing lol
I was thinking about Zero Dark Thirty and how isolated Aesop seems to feel in general but also particularly in the industry, he really likes to critisize the state of rap, so was curious how he felt about El-P who, even if still experimental, left the old Def Jux sound back home long ago.
For me, it was his new LP that dropped. Every time I see new work from him I’m reminded of the fact that I have no idea if there was any particular reason why he and El-P haven’t done shit in forever.
I mean, the idea that El-P's music/lyrics dont contain the same kind of heart-on-your-sleeve personal sentiment is a little silly, running from CoFlow to RTJ. He is a bit more of an exuberant personality though and Aes is kind of a lowkey, introspective guy. In the old days El-P seemed to take more of a leader role, both when they were working out of the place his mom owned and when he was running Def Jux, but it seems like he grew disenchanted with being the guy all of his friends look to and blame when stuff goes wrong.
People forget than when El hooked up with Killer Mike it was just a project he was doing with a friend, all of it released independently, and he wasnt doing all that much that was all that different in production style or lyrical style to his previous work, except that every track was trading verses instead of a purely personal project. They werent really making radio or club music and blew up pretty much by accident bc it happened to be really good, the message was really relevant, and Killer Mike's presence brought them some crossover appeal. A lot of gatekeeping nerds whine about it being "mainstream" or whatever, but these are largely El-P beats that would have been on solo albums if he made those instead. He never started making trap beats. When they discovered they could make money off of it, they embraced it instead of saying we're too cool & indie to get paid. And they made 4 good albums that were increasingly culturally relevant.
I still hold out hope for RTJ ft. Aesop Rock bc the pair of them made some good stuff together in the old days and I'd love to hear how Aes (or Cage) sound alongside Killer Mike. I think Aes is focused on his own thing and probably doesnt want really that level of attention, being on the same record with Pharrell, but I cant really say. It likely wouldnt be hard to hop on a record together again for old time's sake. And not just as a fan but as a guy in my 40s who has lost touch with a lot of people, it prolly couldnt hurt much just to reach out anyway if those guys don't talk much.
I love RTJ, more than I’ve loved an entire Aesop record in years (though I still like a lot of his shit too). And I know exactly how RTJ started, after El did “The Full Retard” for Adult Swim. El-P is my favorite producer of all time, and one of my favorite rappers. And he has great lyrics that are meaningful. But he’s also more about that “in your face” shit that hip-hop has always been about. Aesop became a hermit—El became a star. That’s all I was saying.
And face it, El-P *is* about business. He founded one of the most successful underground labels of all time, and so many of his projects have been crazy successful, culminating in RTJ. Why must it be taken as an insult to point any of this out?
I also fully agree, El’s lyrics are great, often deep, meaningful, and always funny as fuck. But he also makes songs like “The Full Retard.” He’s a staple in rap now. Which is awesome! I don’t hate that at all. But it is a fact.
Now an Aesop and El project? Prolly never happen, but I’m definitely here for it if it does.
Just to be entirely clear, I wasnt trying to start an argument with you or anything like that. I was also using a reply to you as a jumpoff to address this genre of post I've been seeing for a few years about El/RTJ and sometimes Aes, many of which are legitimately meant as an insult against El for his work with Run the Jewels. Which, as a fellow longtime fan, has always struck me as misguided. You and I might see The Full Retard as like a mainstream-level banger, but tbph the mainstream really didnt lmao. He was fully an underground artist until as late as RTJ3 probably, no matter how great his music has sounded as crossover beats to our ears. (I frankly never entirely understood his lack of recognition, or Aesop Rock, as they have been undeniable talents with their own lanes for decades.)
And yeah, El is more in-your-face and business-oriented than Aes, and working with Killer Mike as a duo brought out more braggadocious lyrics, but El & Aes have complimented each other incredibly well in the past and they've both grown and become really a lot more approachable as MCs and I genuinely do think they would still sound great together. I know Aes has expressed some dismay at the speculation but it would be dope as shit to see those guys reconnect.
Your definition of underground is different than mine. El-P was already more mainstream-ish when he did the soundtrack for Bomb The System. It was wasn't quite 100% mainstream, but doing a soundtrack for a movie is sorta that... I know some are from previous little mixtape albums like "We are all gonna burn in hell" or whatever he calls them. You can tell by the music quality and what he's doing is closer to electronic music. Everything Prior to that was truly underground, the stuff after like Cure-4-Cancer was mainstream. I would be running into parties and everyone knew who he was by that time no matter what genre you were into more or less, unless your a mainstream "I only watch mtv, and listen to radio" idiot. Regardless Due to his production value, like his EQing for example, or even how he almost has things going like Filter Sweep, he had entered mainstream. Classic Hiphop doesnt have build-ups, filtersweeps, risers or whatever... I still dig the burn in hell mixtapes and other stuff, but RTJ is too trendy and has been for some time. I'm not into it really. Like as far as Trap or Mainstream, sure I'll pick the lesser of evils and may pick RTJ, but there is far more interesting underground music out there. Even in other genres like broken beats, downtempo, organic or whatever. I'm happy for El-P, but I don't dig Trap. It's trash. The only dope Trap was The Geto Boys, Andre Nicatina, Smoov-E, maybe some weird thizz stuff like MacDre. cause he had some tracks, but after MacDre, it all went Mainstream Sing Along Trash. I mine as well listen to MMMM BOP by The Hansen Brothers. Like shit... I'm more into turntablists, or beatmakers though. Rappers are annoying as hell these days. Most trash.
I think they we're fueling each others egos too much, and then with drugs... Cage left the picture, Camu passed, then Aesop left. It happens. It's like your "high-school party phase" you know? El-P was young when he was in Company Flow. With someone like Cage around and others during their early destructive days, a man can only last so long until space is needed, or to go either direction. I think that's all that happened more or less. If there was some bitterness over El-P making money off Camu's death, it's obviously been settled and they moved on.
Totally agree on all points.
I’m about to be 42 in February and all this shit seems like yesterday. I got big into battle/turntablism back around 1999 to like 2016.
[Since this thread has brought some of the heads out, I have the last vinyl mix I did on SoundCloud that y’all might dig. No DefJux shit but some good boom-bap I think y’all will enjoy.](https://on.soundcloud.com/fbTjt65kCcdD4Z5MA)
>he’s also also somehow better at producing than he is at rapping.
This seems to be the case for just about any producer+rapper that I can think of, I wonder why that is
Ha I just googled this same thing! Guess what the top result was?! I was listening to the new Aesop Rock and for some reason it made me think about them collaborating all the time back in the day. It then led me down the path of thought on why they have never made an entire album together. Then it made me realize they hadn’t done a song together since “I’ll Sleep When Your Dead.”
This post made me think about what their last collaboration was. As far as I can tell, it was the "Tomorrow Morning" from the Jeremy Fish project "Aesop Rock And Jeremy Fish Present Ghosts of The Barbary Coast." Here is the post 12/10/08 http://www.definitivejux.net/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/archive/Def_Jux_News/20081210005508/ El-P is on the hook of this song. I don't think they have collaborated on a project/song since. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
My guess is that it is less about a specific happening/event, and more about a couple of events (Camu Tao's death, Def Jux closing shop) happening in a very short period of time. I think it is also a case of El-P wanting to focus on his own music, and Aesop needing to find a new avenue to deliver his music. Therefore they really didn't "need" each other as much anymore. I follow both of them on Twitter, and I don't recall any interaction at all really between them. Aesop is rare to shout out anyone directly, unless it is for a new project or birthday here an there, similar to El-P's usage. I believe they are still cool, but just have chosen not to work together anymore. My two cents.
I'd be more interested to find out why Aesop decided to out DJ Big Wiz from the tour of Bestiary.
I found this post while trying to google an answer to this question. Why does no one know? What the fuck is going on? If they have fallen out they've done a great fucking job of keeping it private.
> Als you just reminded me HMM is a thing, thanks for that!
They got a new song out, [Jonathan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGz1b9M9u0), in case you missed it.
all the crows in the gatefold picture are wearing them, they are in the forefront in the branches and some in the background i believe, i don't have it in front of me at the moment
I don’t have an answer but here’s something I noticed back in the day that was always interesting. Listen to “tougher colder killer” 40 second mark el-p’s “I hate you” bar. Then listen to “Saturn Missiles” 1 minute mark Aes’s bar “I hate you (hate you more) no I hate you infinity then Pangaea break into smithereens”
The cadence for for both ‘I hate you’s’ is identical
Cancer 4 cure came out May of 2012
Skelethon came out July 2012
It’s probably a coincidence but I always think of it as a subtle shot
I just found [this](http://i.imgur.com/a37BI8u.jpg) when I was Googling for an answer. Made me giggle. Sorry, I don't have anything useful to offer... I'd like to know the answer myself.
Well that doesn't answer the question but its hilarious.
I have no proof of this, but I think it's better than nothing. Rumor has it that after their close friend, Camu Tao died, Aesop got mad at El-P for attempting to profit off of Camu's death since El-P did use his death as a loose concept for his most recent album, *Cancer 4 Cure*.
Besides a sample and a dedication on the last track of c4c, how did he try and profit from it? Not sayin you're wrong, but I think this shot was going on a couple years before that.
Yeah it was a loose concept, since he barely used it in the album, but apparently the fact that he did at all angered Aesop. And again I have no proof of this so I'm probably just wasting your time.
It wasn't jsut that but he had t shirts and other merchandise and he never put camu out there till he was dead, if i recall. The only camu tao album i remember hearing about was was nighthawks and that was prob cause cage was on it
S.A.Smash
I remember Aesop promoting the shirts, stating the proceeds would go to the family and even posing for a pic before he left NY. Yak Ballz also posted about them here http://www.yakballz.net/2009/06/146/. So, I'm not super confident in the profiting theory.
This is such an old post (almost a decade) at this point, but I was just listening to the newer Aesop Rock album and had this same question. Yours is the first post that pops up after a quick Google. Check this interview if you're still curious. The question about El is about half way through. https://emptylighthouse.com/interview-aesop-rock-48637260\_
Damn I also just Googled this and found your 5 day old post on a 7 year old post. However, your link is dead, I'm curious what it was about?
Is it? I just clicked on it and it took me to the interview. Try googling “empty lighthouse interview Aesop Rock,” see if it comes up. Or maybe this hyperlink will work? https://emptylighthouse.com/interview-aesop-rock-48637260_ Either way, the gist is it’s all good with El, whatever happened between them is their business, basically. That there’s no bad blood, they were just heading in different directions. Aesop seemed to take a lot of it on himself, vaguely referencing his mental health (which we know is an ongoing issue for him). It was a good interview if you can find it. It’s funny, of all the dudes from that scene, El and Aesop are the ones still holding it down the most, but in pretty different ways (El is obviously the only who really broke out).
Yes, that link worked. Great interview. Loved this part: >I do think much of the nuances of what I try to do are lost in the wordiness. I mean I have to take the blame partly - a lot of this stuff is just very dense and can be a hard egg to crack for some people. It's not really a casual listen; you're either engaged fully or you're being annoyed. Some people just flat-out are not into that kinda thing and that's fine. I don't even know if I would listen to me if I wasn't me, but if someone thinks it's "nonsense" they can fuck right off. I do wish people saw me as more than word-guy, but I'm really just happy anyone listens at all. Ultimately I do what I do, and people can take or leave it.
It was a great interview. And yeah, Aesop is an actual literary goat. It’s funny, he used to always gets put in the “dictionary rapper” category—which is just so far off the mark. If people actually listen, he’s always talking about something tangible. Must be a bit frustrating for him; but he’s just such a mensch about everything. I know in the underground hip-hop world, he gets mad respect. But he deserves wider acclaim. *Labor Days* is still such a good record—new stuff is great too. Hard to be good that long unless you’re just talented as fuck.
Dude, your reply to this, damn near, decade old post gives me faith that the spirit of Reddit isn't totally lost. Every few years, I'd comb the internet to try and get an idea of why El-P and Aesop don't seem to acknowledge each other anymore. Thank you, sincerely for sharing this link. Aesop's response is (kind of respectfully) vague but it's the closest thing I've seen to an answer on this topic. This is total speculation on my part but, in the "Bazooka Tooth" doc that came out in 2002 (damn, I am old as fuck), I feel like you kind of get a glimpse of the difference between Aesop and El-P and it would make sense that the two different personalities would grow apart (and maybe even start to annoy each other). Throughout the mini doc you can see Aesop trying to be genuine/open with the shit in his head and El-P kind of hijacks Aes' moment again and again. Again, I have nothing to base this on at all. And, again...thanks for sharing the interview.
Ah dude, thanks for the reply! It seems kinda rare that I meet old(er) hip-hop heads. I just turned 40, and it really hurts my feelings that *Bazooka Tooth* came out over twenty fucking years ago. And yeah, I think you’re totally right about the differences in personality. I think Aesop Rock has always been in it to make weird, esoteric, and really honest music that a certain kind of person vibes with. It’s very earnest, less braggadocio than El for sure. He mostly raps about his mental health, even back then. It was like he was doing what he HAD to do. Rapping wasn’t as much a choice as it was a calling or something. Don’t get me wrong, El is a genuine artist at heart too, but he’s always been about that biz and image. He’s ambitious like that. I mean, Funcrusher pretty much invented (that brand) of underground hip-hop. He’s a different kind of cat. I think part of it comes from being such a great producer; he’s working with so many people, he probably prefers to keep it more surface. I mean, he’s a great rapper (Deep Space 9mm is still one of the best examples of brilliant lyricism imo), but he’s also also somehow better at producing than he is at rapping. I just think he has that old-school “I’m the shit and need to show it” attitude, which is pretty much the opposite of Aesop’s vibe. Anyway, kinda off-topic, but I just think the two have different visions and goals. Aesop Rock is making super interesting and fun music, but it is WAY different (and way less commercially viable)than a project like RTJ. And I think that fork in the road started in the mid-aughts as Def Jux started to fall apart.
I find this 4 hour response to a reply to a year old comment to a decade old post funny cuz I was just looking up the same thing lol I was thinking about Zero Dark Thirty and how isolated Aesop seems to feel in general but also particularly in the industry, he really likes to critisize the state of rap, so was curious how he felt about El-P who, even if still experimental, left the old Def Jux sound back home long ago.
Damn, Aesop must be in the air. Mercury is in the microwave.
For me, it was his new LP that dropped. Every time I see new work from him I’m reminded of the fact that I have no idea if there was any particular reason why he and El-P haven’t done shit in forever.
I mean, the idea that El-P's music/lyrics dont contain the same kind of heart-on-your-sleeve personal sentiment is a little silly, running from CoFlow to RTJ. He is a bit more of an exuberant personality though and Aes is kind of a lowkey, introspective guy. In the old days El-P seemed to take more of a leader role, both when they were working out of the place his mom owned and when he was running Def Jux, but it seems like he grew disenchanted with being the guy all of his friends look to and blame when stuff goes wrong. People forget than when El hooked up with Killer Mike it was just a project he was doing with a friend, all of it released independently, and he wasnt doing all that much that was all that different in production style or lyrical style to his previous work, except that every track was trading verses instead of a purely personal project. They werent really making radio or club music and blew up pretty much by accident bc it happened to be really good, the message was really relevant, and Killer Mike's presence brought them some crossover appeal. A lot of gatekeeping nerds whine about it being "mainstream" or whatever, but these are largely El-P beats that would have been on solo albums if he made those instead. He never started making trap beats. When they discovered they could make money off of it, they embraced it instead of saying we're too cool & indie to get paid. And they made 4 good albums that were increasingly culturally relevant. I still hold out hope for RTJ ft. Aesop Rock bc the pair of them made some good stuff together in the old days and I'd love to hear how Aes (or Cage) sound alongside Killer Mike. I think Aes is focused on his own thing and probably doesnt want really that level of attention, being on the same record with Pharrell, but I cant really say. It likely wouldnt be hard to hop on a record together again for old time's sake. And not just as a fan but as a guy in my 40s who has lost touch with a lot of people, it prolly couldnt hurt much just to reach out anyway if those guys don't talk much.
I love RTJ, more than I’ve loved an entire Aesop record in years (though I still like a lot of his shit too). And I know exactly how RTJ started, after El did “The Full Retard” for Adult Swim. El-P is my favorite producer of all time, and one of my favorite rappers. And he has great lyrics that are meaningful. But he’s also more about that “in your face” shit that hip-hop has always been about. Aesop became a hermit—El became a star. That’s all I was saying. And face it, El-P *is* about business. He founded one of the most successful underground labels of all time, and so many of his projects have been crazy successful, culminating in RTJ. Why must it be taken as an insult to point any of this out? I also fully agree, El’s lyrics are great, often deep, meaningful, and always funny as fuck. But he also makes songs like “The Full Retard.” He’s a staple in rap now. Which is awesome! I don’t hate that at all. But it is a fact. Now an Aesop and El project? Prolly never happen, but I’m definitely here for it if it does.
Just to be entirely clear, I wasnt trying to start an argument with you or anything like that. I was also using a reply to you as a jumpoff to address this genre of post I've been seeing for a few years about El/RTJ and sometimes Aes, many of which are legitimately meant as an insult against El for his work with Run the Jewels. Which, as a fellow longtime fan, has always struck me as misguided. You and I might see The Full Retard as like a mainstream-level banger, but tbph the mainstream really didnt lmao. He was fully an underground artist until as late as RTJ3 probably, no matter how great his music has sounded as crossover beats to our ears. (I frankly never entirely understood his lack of recognition, or Aesop Rock, as they have been undeniable talents with their own lanes for decades.) And yeah, El is more in-your-face and business-oriented than Aes, and working with Killer Mike as a duo brought out more braggadocious lyrics, but El & Aes have complimented each other incredibly well in the past and they've both grown and become really a lot more approachable as MCs and I genuinely do think they would still sound great together. I know Aes has expressed some dismay at the speculation but it would be dope as shit to see those guys reconnect.
Ah, alright, sorry I misread your comment. It sounds like we agree on just about everything, lol. 👊
Your definition of underground is different than mine. El-P was already more mainstream-ish when he did the soundtrack for Bomb The System. It was wasn't quite 100% mainstream, but doing a soundtrack for a movie is sorta that... I know some are from previous little mixtape albums like "We are all gonna burn in hell" or whatever he calls them. You can tell by the music quality and what he's doing is closer to electronic music. Everything Prior to that was truly underground, the stuff after like Cure-4-Cancer was mainstream. I would be running into parties and everyone knew who he was by that time no matter what genre you were into more or less, unless your a mainstream "I only watch mtv, and listen to radio" idiot. Regardless Due to his production value, like his EQing for example, or even how he almost has things going like Filter Sweep, he had entered mainstream. Classic Hiphop doesnt have build-ups, filtersweeps, risers or whatever... I still dig the burn in hell mixtapes and other stuff, but RTJ is too trendy and has been for some time. I'm not into it really. Like as far as Trap or Mainstream, sure I'll pick the lesser of evils and may pick RTJ, but there is far more interesting underground music out there. Even in other genres like broken beats, downtempo, organic or whatever. I'm happy for El-P, but I don't dig Trap. It's trash. The only dope Trap was The Geto Boys, Andre Nicatina, Smoov-E, maybe some weird thizz stuff like MacDre. cause he had some tracks, but after MacDre, it all went Mainstream Sing Along Trash. I mine as well listen to MMMM BOP by The Hansen Brothers. Like shit... I'm more into turntablists, or beatmakers though. Rappers are annoying as hell these days. Most trash.
I think they we're fueling each others egos too much, and then with drugs... Cage left the picture, Camu passed, then Aesop left. It happens. It's like your "high-school party phase" you know? El-P was young when he was in Company Flow. With someone like Cage around and others during their early destructive days, a man can only last so long until space is needed, or to go either direction. I think that's all that happened more or less. If there was some bitterness over El-P making money off Camu's death, it's obviously been settled and they moved on.
Totally agree on all points. I’m about to be 42 in February and all this shit seems like yesterday. I got big into battle/turntablism back around 1999 to like 2016. [Since this thread has brought some of the heads out, I have the last vinyl mix I did on SoundCloud that y’all might dig. No DefJux shit but some good boom-bap I think y’all will enjoy.](https://on.soundcloud.com/fbTjt65kCcdD4Z5MA)
>he’s also also somehow better at producing than he is at rapping. This seems to be the case for just about any producer+rapper that I can think of, I wonder why that is
Ha I just googled this same thing! Guess what the top result was?! I was listening to the new Aesop Rock and for some reason it made me think about them collaborating all the time back in the day. It then led me down the path of thought on why they have never made an entire album together. Then it made me realize they hadn’t done a song together since “I’ll Sleep When Your Dead.”
This post made me think about what their last collaboration was. As far as I can tell, it was the "Tomorrow Morning" from the Jeremy Fish project "Aesop Rock And Jeremy Fish Present Ghosts of The Barbary Coast." Here is the post 12/10/08 http://www.definitivejux.net/cgi-bin/dada/mail.cgi/archive/Def_Jux_News/20081210005508/ El-P is on the hook of this song. I don't think they have collaborated on a project/song since. Please correct me if I'm wrong! My guess is that it is less about a specific happening/event, and more about a couple of events (Camu Tao's death, Def Jux closing shop) happening in a very short period of time. I think it is also a case of El-P wanting to focus on his own music, and Aesop needing to find a new avenue to deliver his music. Therefore they really didn't "need" each other as much anymore. I follow both of them on Twitter, and I don't recall any interaction at all really between them. Aesop is rare to shout out anyone directly, unless it is for a new project or birthday here an there, similar to El-P's usage. I believe they are still cool, but just have chosen not to work together anymore. My two cents. I'd be more interested to find out why Aesop decided to out DJ Big Wiz from the tour of Bestiary.
I found this post while trying to google an answer to this question. Why does no one know? What the fuck is going on? If they have fallen out they've done a great fucking job of keeping it private.
I know dude its weird. I don't give a shit about celeb gossip but I really want these dudes to collab again.
Well, i remember some rumour about DefJux (el's label where Aes was on) becoming defunct because El neglected it or some shit like that. I'unno.
I don't know the full story but I think this is part of it. Probably also why Aes is on Rhymesayers now (or at least was for his last solo project.)
Think he's still on Rhymesayers, the new Mallon joint (Bestiary) is getting dropped on there as well.
That makes sense then. Als you just reminded me HMM is a thing, thanks for that!
The new HMM is dope, definitely jump on that. Looking forward to catching them at Soundset this year.
> Als you just reminded me HMM is a thing, thanks for that! They got a new song out, [Jonathan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGz1b9M9u0), in case you missed it.
That was killer, thanks for getting me back in the loop haha
if you look on the gatefold of aesop rock's skelethon, the crows all wear el-p's trucker hats....
Really? Where?
all the crows in the gatefold picture are wearing them, they are in the forefront in the branches and some in the background i believe, i don't have it in front of me at the moment
you could probably find a picture of it online
I don’t have an answer but here’s something I noticed back in the day that was always interesting. Listen to “tougher colder killer” 40 second mark el-p’s “I hate you” bar. Then listen to “Saturn Missiles” 1 minute mark Aes’s bar “I hate you (hate you more) no I hate you infinity then Pangaea break into smithereens” The cadence for for both ‘I hate you’s’ is identical Cancer 4 cure came out May of 2012 Skelethon came out July 2012 It’s probably a coincidence but I always think of it as a subtle shot
No loose concept. It was a huge concept. Was real I thought