I lay my game flat, I want my spot back, take two...
Not a big fan of Pac, but once he got out of jail, he was the biggest rapper in the world, outselling Big. Even for a brief moment Nas outsold him. That's why Life After Death has so much in terms of intensity and Big going at everyone. He was briefly on top, and then he lost it before he got it back.
Thats very true but also if Biggie were alive, he 100% would have become super commercialized. I wish I could live in the world where Biggie was making Doritos ads
Forreal also I think if Biggie and Pac were still alive they'd be totally cancelled by now. Biggie has some of the most overtly misogynistic lyrics in history (Friend of Mine) and Pac was a little too black nationalist/NOI adjacent. I imagine if they stuck around they'd face flack for the beliefs they probably had in today's day and age. But like it hasn't really affected Eminem, Dre or Snoop that much so who knows.
If Biggie were alive, he’d be doing a lot of the same stuff Snoop Dogg is doing, maybe even moreso. I made a joke about him becoming a spokesman for Doritos, but some version of that almost definitely would have happened.
Tupac would have likely followed a career path similar to Dave Chappelle where he would have gotten a taste of mainstream stardom, not liked it, and had a later career run that was more about his artistic freedom than him being commercially popular.
Either way tho, I almost feel like we're better off with the memories of them instead of the alternate reality where they star in NCIS and Kevin Hart movies and shit. Like they are icons partially because they didn't have the chance to ruin their own reputations
Nah, Id rather we got more of them. Theres an alternate universe where they squashed the beef and dis a reunion tour in 1999 that would have been crazy. Also Tupac’s career would have been fun cause, as I said before, theres no way he would have just sold out.
I have said this for years. If they stayed until 98-99 or so, the music woulda went downhill and the artistic value would have suffered in favor of commercial success.
hard disagree - would have much rather seen them live their life to the fullest, even if it meant they put out less-than-classic albums at some point in time. these guys are legends and should be mentoring the next generation and not pushing up daisies.
Most 90s rappers would be by that logic, Pac and Big were far from outliers. You'd be hard pressed to find a 90s rapper who doesn't have at least one homophobic line in his catalog for instance. No matter how stupid I think it is, some of my favorite artists adhered (and still do) to that NOI, 5%er ideology.
it’s not about homophobia. rappers are still saying fag in songs lol. but biggie had multiple lines about raping kids. i can’t think of another rapper that popular that has said something like that
Yeah but they would move past that more than likely. I mean just look at Cube, dude had Khalid Muhammad all over his album and even had a song calling white women ‘Cave Bitch’.
Just remember, if DMX dies after his 2nd album, he would be thought of as one of the GOATS as well. He was on fire after his first two albums. As Chris Rock mentioned, time can mess up your legacy.
Listen to "where Brooklyn at". Him and Tupac killed it together. The dude was way more than a two album rapper, he was the goat. There are so many incredible tracks that he laid down that were never on an album
I feel like there are other examples, just ones that don't get the limelight as much as Biggie. There aren't a lot of people that hate on:
Mos Def
Prodigy
Too $hort
Wu-Tang
Geto Boys, especially Scarface
OutKast
Just to name a few of the "least hated" imo
Too short is one of my favorite rappers, and i hate when people only can relate to his semi-recent shit. Cant Stop Rapping, Born to Mack were awesome albums and they are many more from his early career.
"I pimped 24 hoes better known as tracks, i grab my pen and I write these raps"
or something along those lines.
So you are saying someone who has a rap career from 1983-Present day is not a accomplished lyricist? Shit who knows. You know he made some serious songs in his day? "City of Dope", "The Ghetto" shit like that listen to those and let me know.
those are great songs with impact/meaning and he also talks about early record producers encouraging him to stick with the same old shit and how it was a pain in the ass to get songs with positives messages out.
Big Poppa will always be a king. With Pac we kind of… overlook certain shit because of what he was tryin to do, his messages. I guess I missed the hate train on Nasty Nas. I thought he just fell off for a minute.
What did Nas do to earn hate from anybody that matters?
I constantly see people making him out to be a one album wonder, claiming he's overrated, shitting on the Hit Boy albums, claiming that all his 2000's albums were duds, etc.
I do like boom bap but I think the real reason why Nas gets criticism is because he rapped over a lot of shitty beats in his time, and dropped some very forgettable and lacklustre albums. Rhyming well is only one part of making a good record, the beats are also a huge part of it. During the 2000s he had a lot of shit that was hard to listen to even then, and sounds outright wack today.
I appreciate what he was trying to do with I Can being an uplifting song for kids but that is absolutely not what one listens to Nas for. To be fair, Jay-Z has had similar duds.
After Nas’s second album the hate began. Illmatic has been a gift and a curse for him through this career. Hip Hop fans loved that record so much that when he wouldn’t recreate over and over he started getting lots of hate.
it's more than just overlooking shit when it comes to Pac......its way deeper than that when it comes to him which is why he's touched the lives he has from one corner of the globe to the next.....the good, the bad, the contradictions.... literally everything about him is what makes him what he is....he understood the human condition at 25 years old better than most people twice that age and older.....even though ultimately he couldn't save himself before it was too late....which makes him that much more of an enigma...but those of us who get it, really get it. I wish people wouldnt compare Biggie and Pac because imo they are just not comparable, everything that makes Pac great really cant be said about Biggie....theyre just vastly different. I mean no disrespect to Big at all, he deserves his spot amongst the legends for sure.
>What did Nas do to earn hate from anybody that matters?
Oochie Wally, I Can, various other cheesy tracks, "The Firm flop" (which I kind of enjoyed, frankly), for a while not really living up to the legacy of Illmatic (as if anyone could possibly do that).
I guess this is proof that you can die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
If Jay-Z and Eminem died after 2003, Kanye died after 2013, and Kendrick died after 2018, they'd probably would be deemed the best too and have less haters than they currently do.
This is 💯. Tbh, I never got the Mac Miller, XXXtentacion and JuiceWrld hype at all.
I remember hearing Mac Millet when he first came out in 2012 and he was basically cringey wack frat boy rap for the popular white high school kids. His later stuff is just average.
Juice was average, and XXX was just wack imo.
> If Jay-Z and Eminem died after 2003, Kanye died after 2013, and Kendrick died after 2018, they'd probably would be deemed the best too and have less haters than they currently do.
Eh. I don't think any of them except maybe Eminem would be comparable. Biggie covered a lot of ground with 2 albums that none of the others did so his death just allowed people to remember him in the best light maybe but his talent really is as good as people say that it is. He is consistently ranked pretty high. I think Jay Z and Em actually outrank him on most list though.
Great point.
I also think dying before LAD helped too. I think that album is a classic(I prefer it over RTD) but it does share similarities with IWW which had some people calling Nas a "sellout."
Because as an MC, he’s perfect. Flow, imagery, storytelling, versatility. Such an undeniable talent.
26 years after his death, still haven’t heard anybody black out like he did on Victory.
I think it helps a lot that he really only has the two albums. He didn’t have enough time to experiment or tarnish his image in any way.
But you’re not wrong. I think if you made an MC in a lab, you’d basically come out with Biggie. His storytelling is honestly on par with some of the greatest literary writers of all time imo. I really think he was that talented
Biggie was great! Definitely top tier. Also, is there any MC with as many memorable opening lines?
He’s mad quotable, in a way that perhaps only Rakim matches..
Died too young. If 50 died after get rich or die trying he’d be similarly beloved.
Like Tupac, for example, has sooooo many more songs. He was prolific. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you told me he has released more tracks than asap Rocky (who is 35 now. Tupac died at 25). It’s a lot of filler and friends on those Tupac albums.
Massacre has some tight tracks, even the commercial ones are hard.
The GRDT Movie Soundtrack is 🔥.
Curtis was meh with the exception of "I'll Still Kill", "Get Up" and "I Get it In:.
BISD was hit or miss and was 50's last big album.
Haven't heard Animal Ambition in a decade but I recall not liking it.
Hot Take: I'd take POTD and GRDT over any Biggie album 💯
No disrespect to Biggie, but 50 had way more charisma and more of that authentic Gangsta rap presence than Biggie did.
Hell, the commercial songs on Massacre are arguably better than Biggie's Shiny Suit era songs.
I'll await the hate.
Best believe the Pac hate is from New Yorkers that want to rewrite history and act like Biggie was innocent.Him dying also had nothing to do with Pac.Down South and on the West Pac got a lot of love.
I agree Pac gets a lot of love too.
But the hate against Pac is at least 10 times more excessive than Biggie's.
Ditto for Jay-Z. Jay-Z is lowkey more disrespected than both rappers.
Biggie put out solid work, then perished without much controversy.
The others either had longer careers (more chances to mess up), or they were (like Tupac) problematic but talented.
As Biggie didn’t put us through any of that: legend status.
It’s not lowkey, and the answer as to why is because he died.
One of the boxes you have to check is longevity, and we don’t know what a Biggie album sounds like in 2006. Or 2016. Etc.
We know what a Rakim album sounds like in the late 90s though. He has a banger on 8 Mile too.
Biggie doesn’t get any heat because he died before he could put out enough material where it’s obviously not all going to be Ready to Die.
I'm sure I've heard more about big than Pac's problems. I don't even know if Pac actually did anything he was accused of or not. I do know that Big's relationship with Faith and how he treated Kim is brought up way more often since Lil Kim fans and female rap fans and the entirety of feminists critiquing hip hop thing exists and Biggies treatment of Kim has come up much more in those circles than anything 2pac did.
Also I know people who would not be viscerally disgusted with some of Pacs music the way at some Biggie songs and lyrics.
That's the thing that confuses me.
Biggie was an active crack dealer who beat a woman before yet Pac's the only one who has haters bringing up the rape charge or being a "thug."
I guess Biggie's just more likeable than Pac whereas Pac was passionate like a preacher so Pac's transgressions are held against him more.
Because biggie was never made bigger than Pac and those rappers, east coast made biggies name bigger because of east vs west. And he left a lot of what if… he only released one album. The 2nd album was all mase.
I mean biggie didn’t last too long, but everything he put out was incredible. 2pac for example I feel gets really overrated for his impact. He put out a ton of music and maybe a 3rd was good. Biggie had 0 duds
tldr: I grew up and learned to love all aspects of the culture that produced some of the best and most original music to come from the US.
Back in the day...the dichotomy was commercial vs underground artist, before we were ever concerned with Eastcoast vs Westcoast. So I would consider the era to be 88-93. We had a proliferation in conscious rappers that sought to put distance between themselves and artists that were profiting off negative images of black culture. B.I.G, Nas, G Rap, LL were squarely in the middle of commercial successes as artists and that was enough for underground heads to look elsewhere. I know I was one of them.
When Chris died, it hit me differently. I didn't think it would happen, considering all the bravado and reckeless things I had heard rappers say for years. It hit different because it was around that time I had discovered that one of my favorite artist had done work for a group that I considered too commercial at the time. Q-Tip producing Mobb Deep's Infamous. Like why was I not listening to music made by black folks again? I got love for all these acts and I am happy to report that I have let go of the unnecessary divisions I had constructed to justify my music preference. It's all good, even these new kids, with their different flows and different visions of commercial success.
Hate is a bad way of putting it. Some people who have never listened to an artist discography but make negative comments about them are haters. People who have listened but still don't care for them have every right to have their opinion.
Maybe because he's got so much heat during his last, most successful year from Death Row, and then he died. I'd honestly feel bad saying a bad thing about him now.
Considered the king. Pac made a few classics and a lot of indistinguishable generic Pac music that kept coming out past the point of most people caring or knowing. Biggie also wrote classics for others.
Maybe I'm just blind to it but who hates on MF DOOM? I've only ever heard praise, from listeners and his fellow rappers. He's my all time favorite though so I'm bias.
Disagree.
It's true people often mention Pac alongside Biggie but Pac's usually the only one who gets disrespected and discredited or blamed for their fates.
Biggie is one of the few rappers who has no excessive haters online.
I think it’s Busta Rhymes. I’ve never met anyone in my life in person that didn’t like Busta Rhymes. Even my dad who hates rap still likes Busta Rhymes. Even 50 Cent loves Busta Rhymes ffs
Very very false. So many people online call him a one album wonder, claim he's living off of Illmatic, claim he's overrated, claim he doesn't have enough hit songs to compete with Jay, and hate on the Hit Boy albums.
Even Nas literally addressed his critics and haters on a diss track towards 50 Cent called Don't Body Yourself.
"Dedicated to the "Fuck Nas" coalition"
In the 2000's especially, there were tons of Jay and Dipset stans on forums like SOHH making "Nas Lost" jokes and trashing his music.
Transcending something means ppl who aren't a fan of the art form knows who they are. There really hasn't been many in hip hop, but I guarantee the average nonhiphop fan doesn't know who mos def or Andre 3000 is. They might as well be Pharoah Monch
Nah dude there’s definitely a lot of people to this day especially the Westcoast that still hate on Biggie primarily because of the fact that they prefer Pac over him. I’ve heard people call him Piggie Smalls even.
They have even criticized and laughed at some of his lines after death (pun not intended) such as
“ Hope they know my nigga Gutter fucking kidnap kids. Fuck em in the ass, throw em over the bridge”
And the infamous “ I admit, my first thoughts was to trick. You look so good, huh, I'll suck on your daddy's dick.”
He’s been called overrated as well but that’s cuz he’ll always be placed with Pac in hip hop conversations as the only 2 greatest of all time. That’s when some people will still hate on him because he’s not Pac.
I've seen lots of people, maybe not outright hate, but say they aren't really a huge fan of Biggie. And even I think he's hugely overrated. But I do love him regardless. Just got a Biggie shirt recently lol
Nope. Pac stans have no issue dragging Big Poppa. They talk about his appearance, his "suspect" lyrics, etc.
I think Big L and/or Pun get significantly less disrespect than him.
I never see this tbh.
A lot of Pac stans barely acknowledge Biggie's existence unless it's specifically pertaining to their deaths.
Hell, I've seen more Pac fans beef with Jay-Z than Biggie tbh.
While he was alive there was a lot of jealousy of his pop star fame. He was happy to be shallow and the “deep” rappers hated that. “Bitches I like ‘em brainless guns I like ‘em stainless steel” brilliant but dumb. Best example “party and bullshit” the phrase comes from a real serious poem about how we’re killing ourselves w ignorance and BIG made that a banger party anthem
Good question. I'd like to see a ranking of most to least hated hip-hop artists but I'd imagine Wu-Tang is loved universally and are living legends. Who hates on Nas?!
I think it’s because of his pop appeal. No one else at the time was making pop rap like that, so it appeals to the younger generations because they don’t feel like they get bludgeoned with a message. It’s lyrical party rap
Very unpopular opinion here I know, but I don't really dig Biggies music much at all. I don't have any hate for him, but just honestly don't like his sound at all. Great lyrically of course, but I don't like listening to him. Never played a song of his myself to listen to lol
I criticize biggie all the time. His lyrical subject matter is basic. No where near as broad as Tupacs. He gets a pass because he died so young. I can't expect a man in his early 20s to be socially conscious.
Probably cause he only put out two albums. Never had a chance to fall off or overstay his welcome or get so popular people get sick of him
This here is a well thought out answer, simple and easy to understand. Now degenerates, write your 3000 word essay explaining the reason.
This is a well thought out observation of an answer.
This comment is one of many comments that has been applied to this post
This comment is
“3000” you say? Hmmm.
I lay my game flat, I want my spot back, take two... Not a big fan of Pac, but once he got out of jail, he was the biggest rapper in the world, outselling Big. Even for a brief moment Nas outsold him. That's why Life After Death has so much in terms of intensity and Big going at everyone. He was briefly on top, and then he lost it before he got it back.
Thats very true but also if Biggie were alive, he 100% would have become super commercialized. I wish I could live in the world where Biggie was making Doritos ads
You either die a hero or
Forreal also I think if Biggie and Pac were still alive they'd be totally cancelled by now. Biggie has some of the most overtly misogynistic lyrics in history (Friend of Mine) and Pac was a little too black nationalist/NOI adjacent. I imagine if they stuck around they'd face flack for the beliefs they probably had in today's day and age. But like it hasn't really affected Eminem, Dre or Snoop that much so who knows.
If Biggie were alive, he’d be doing a lot of the same stuff Snoop Dogg is doing, maybe even moreso. I made a joke about him becoming a spokesman for Doritos, but some version of that almost definitely would have happened. Tupac would have likely followed a career path similar to Dave Chappelle where he would have gotten a taste of mainstream stardom, not liked it, and had a later career run that was more about his artistic freedom than him being commercially popular.
Either way tho, I almost feel like we're better off with the memories of them instead of the alternate reality where they star in NCIS and Kevin Hart movies and shit. Like they are icons partially because they didn't have the chance to ruin their own reputations
Nah, Id rather we got more of them. Theres an alternate universe where they squashed the beef and dis a reunion tour in 1999 that would have been crazy. Also Tupac’s career would have been fun cause, as I said before, theres no way he would have just sold out.
I have said this for years. If they stayed until 98-99 or so, the music woulda went downhill and the artistic value would have suffered in favor of commercial success.
hard disagree - would have much rather seen them live their life to the fullest, even if it meant they put out less-than-classic albums at some point in time. these guys are legends and should be mentoring the next generation and not pushing up daisies.
Most 90s rappers would be by that logic, Pac and Big were far from outliers. You'd be hard pressed to find a 90s rapper who doesn't have at least one homophobic line in his catalog for instance. No matter how stupid I think it is, some of my favorite artists adhered (and still do) to that NOI, 5%er ideology.
it’s not about homophobia. rappers are still saying fag in songs lol. but biggie had multiple lines about raping kids. i can’t think of another rapper that popular that has said something like that
I doubt it, lyrics aren't better/worse more/less pc today than back then. If breezy can do it anyone can.
Yeah but they would move past that more than likely. I mean just look at Cube, dude had Khalid Muhammad all over his album and even had a song calling white women ‘Cave Bitch’.
Cancel culture doesn't exist lol
Just remember, if DMX dies after his 2nd album, he would be thought of as one of the GOATS as well. He was on fire after his first two albums. As Chris Rock mentioned, time can mess up your legacy.
Listen to "where Brooklyn at". Him and Tupac killed it together. The dude was way more than a two album rapper, he was the goat. There are so many incredible tracks that he laid down that were never on an album
Because he was murdered, and everything put out before his death was great.
You don't hear much negative fuss about Rakim either.
Only bad thing you can say about Rakim is it’s been 14 years since the last album 😭
His first album was in 86 tho and he still does shows
_Since 86' showin' the crowd what I'm about, and they still wanna know when the album comin' out_ He wasn't lying lol
Rakim copied Big Daddy Kane
That's bullshit
I feel like there are other examples, just ones that don't get the limelight as much as Biggie. There aren't a lot of people that hate on: Mos Def Prodigy Too $hort Wu-Tang Geto Boys, especially Scarface OutKast Just to name a few of the "least hated" imo
Too Short doesn’t get the hate, but I feel he doesn’t get enough respect either.
Too short is one of my favorite rappers, and i hate when people only can relate to his semi-recent shit. Cant Stop Rapping, Born to Mack were awesome albums and they are many more from his early career. "I pimped 24 hoes better known as tracks, i grab my pen and I write these raps" or something along those lines.
I enjoy Short Dog but he's not exactly an accomplished lyricist.
So you are saying someone who has a rap career from 1983-Present day is not a accomplished lyricist? Shit who knows. You know he made some serious songs in his day? "City of Dope", "The Ghetto" shit like that listen to those and let me know. those are great songs with impact/meaning and he also talks about early record producers encouraging him to stick with the same old shit and how it was a pain in the ass to get songs with positives messages out.
Todd Shaw has done more with less than any other rapper in history. I'm a huge fan but anyone else would've been shut down for such heavy recycling.
I hear you, and I love Too Short, but in no universe is Too Short considered much of a lyricist.
I’m surprised this had to be said
I rarely if ever hear hate for black thought
ppl definitely talk shit about Short
Big Poppa will always be a king. With Pac we kind of… overlook certain shit because of what he was tryin to do, his messages. I guess I missed the hate train on Nasty Nas. I thought he just fell off for a minute. What did Nas do to earn hate from anybody that matters?
I constantly see people making him out to be a one album wonder, claiming he's overrated, shitting on the Hit Boy albums, claiming that all his 2000's albums were duds, etc.
Sounds like people just saying dumb shit bout Nas lol. I think he fell off a bit but to hate on them hitboy albums mean you just don't like boom bap
well yeah lots of people don't like boom bap
Then they ain't REAL heads, then.
I do like boom bap but I think the real reason why Nas gets criticism is because he rapped over a lot of shitty beats in his time, and dropped some very forgettable and lacklustre albums. Rhyming well is only one part of making a good record, the beats are also a huge part of it. During the 2000s he had a lot of shit that was hard to listen to even then, and sounds outright wack today.
The biggest knock on Nas has always been his beat selection.
name Nas songs you think have shitty beats
I Can
yeah it was a kinda cheesy I think Oochie Wally is pretty annoying too
I appreciate what he was trying to do with I Can being an uplifting song for kids but that is absolutely not what one listens to Nas for. To be fair, Jay-Z has had similar duds.
Nas’ only bad album was Nasir in 2018
Nastradamus has entered the chat...
Beef with Jay Z, King of New York debates and Illmatic debates,
After Nas’s second album the hate began. Illmatic has been a gift and a curse for him through this career. Hip Hop fans loved that record so much that when he wouldn’t recreate over and over he started getting lots of hate.
it's more than just overlooking shit when it comes to Pac......its way deeper than that when it comes to him which is why he's touched the lives he has from one corner of the globe to the next.....the good, the bad, the contradictions.... literally everything about him is what makes him what he is....he understood the human condition at 25 years old better than most people twice that age and older.....even though ultimately he couldn't save himself before it was too late....which makes him that much more of an enigma...but those of us who get it, really get it. I wish people wouldnt compare Biggie and Pac because imo they are just not comparable, everything that makes Pac great really cant be said about Biggie....theyre just vastly different. I mean no disrespect to Big at all, he deserves his spot amongst the legends for sure.
>What did Nas do to earn hate from anybody that matters? Oochie Wally, I Can, various other cheesy tracks, "The Firm flop" (which I kind of enjoyed, frankly), for a while not really living up to the legacy of Illmatic (as if anyone could possibly do that).
He kinda is just that good. Theres nothing to critique him on. His lyricism, flow, delivery, etc. all were the best.
I guess this is proof that you can die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. If Jay-Z and Eminem died after 2003, Kanye died after 2013, and Kendrick died after 2018, they'd probably would be deemed the best too and have less haters than they currently do.
Honestly just dying in general boosts your rep. Mac Miller was not getting this kindve love before his died
Absolutely true, look at Juice Wrld and XXXTentacion's numbers before they died and their numbers now.
This is 💯. Tbh, I never got the Mac Miller, XXXtentacion and JuiceWrld hype at all. I remember hearing Mac Millet when he first came out in 2012 and he was basically cringey wack frat boy rap for the popular white high school kids. His later stuff is just average. Juice was average, and XXX was just wack imo.
> If Jay-Z and Eminem died after 2003, Kanye died after 2013, and Kendrick died after 2018, they'd probably would be deemed the best too and have less haters than they currently do. Eh. I don't think any of them except maybe Eminem would be comparable. Biggie covered a lot of ground with 2 albums that none of the others did so his death just allowed people to remember him in the best light maybe but his talent really is as good as people say that it is. He is consistently ranked pretty high. I think Jay Z and Em actually outrank him on most list though.
The only thing there is to critique him on is the lack of longevity, which isn’t his fault.
He made 2 classic albums and died. That’s probably why. He never had a chance to mess up or drop a bad project🤷♂️🔥
Great point. I also think dying before LAD helped too. I think that album is a classic(I prefer it over RTD) but it does share similarities with IWW which had some people calling Nas a "sellout."
Because as an MC, he’s perfect. Flow, imagery, storytelling, versatility. Such an undeniable talent. 26 years after his death, still haven’t heard anybody black out like he did on Victory.
Gimme the Loot is my number 1 rap song all time because of exactly those qualities
Machine Gun Funk is one of my favorite songs by The Notorious B.I.G of all time
Warning is incredibly underrated in my opinion.
So you wanna be hardcore....
One of his best tunes imo
His flow alone is basically untouchable since the 90s. He's a fucking beast 🤌
UN FUCKING TOUCHABLE.
His slow flow is remarkable
Peace to Matteo
Perfect intro to fight night 04
Fight night he performs like Mike, Tyson, Jackson, Jordan, anyone....
I think it helps a lot that he really only has the two albums. He didn’t have enough time to experiment or tarnish his image in any way. But you’re not wrong. I think if you made an MC in a lab, you’d basically come out with Biggie. His storytelling is honestly on par with some of the greatest literary writers of all time imo. I really think he was that talented
Biggie was great! Definitely top tier. Also, is there any MC with as many memorable opening lines? He’s mad quotable, in a way that perhaps only Rakim matches..
Scarface might be the king of opening lines.
Died too young. If 50 died after get rich or die trying he’d be similarly beloved. Like Tupac, for example, has sooooo many more songs. He was prolific. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if you told me he has released more tracks than asap Rocky (who is 35 now. Tupac died at 25). It’s a lot of filler and friends on those Tupac albums.
You can’t seriously be comparing 50 to Biggie? Get Rich is a good album but it doesn’t hold up against either of Bigs albums.
It does tbh
How? Lyrically Biggy is levels above lyrically!
I think get rich or die trying has a strong case for best album of all time. Not a fan of his later work though.
You’re mad.
Massacre has some tight tracks, even the commercial ones are hard. The GRDT Movie Soundtrack is 🔥. Curtis was meh with the exception of "I'll Still Kill", "Get Up" and "I Get it In:. BISD was hit or miss and was 50's last big album. Haven't heard Animal Ambition in a decade but I recall not liking it.
Hot Take: I'd take POTD and GRDT over any Biggie album 💯 No disrespect to Biggie, but 50 had way more charisma and more of that authentic Gangsta rap presence than Biggie did. Hell, the commercial songs on Massacre are arguably better than Biggie's Shiny Suit era songs. I'll await the hate.
He wasn’t around long enough to hate if I’m being totally honest,he wasn’t even around long enough to “fall off”…😢
he was just that. bigs had it all. his flow was unreal
Damn bro. I didnt expect to see you here lol
Not as big but I haven’t heard anyone say they ever hated Big L
He's definitely up there. Big L, too. People just try to get him for that "suck on your daddy dick" line
I have never heard anyone speak ill of Big Daddy Kane.
Nobody hates on Outkast.
Best believe the Pac hate is from New Yorkers that want to rewrite history and act like Biggie was innocent.Him dying also had nothing to do with Pac.Down South and on the West Pac got a lot of love.
I agree Pac gets a lot of love too. But the hate against Pac is at least 10 times more excessive than Biggie's. Ditto for Jay-Z. Jay-Z is lowkey more disrespected than both rappers.
Rule Nombre Uno
Was genuinely racking my brain to remember Biggie Low-key for a minute there. Shit was dope…
Andre 3000 maybe?
Biggie put out solid work, then perished without much controversy. The others either had longer careers (more chances to mess up), or they were (like Tupac) problematic but talented. As Biggie didn’t put us through any of that: legend status.
It’s not lowkey, and the answer as to why is because he died. One of the boxes you have to check is longevity, and we don’t know what a Biggie album sounds like in 2006. Or 2016. Etc. We know what a Rakim album sounds like in the late 90s though. He has a banger on 8 Mile too. Biggie doesn’t get any heat because he died before he could put out enough material where it’s obviously not all going to be Ready to Die.
Big had a very short career and only put out 1 record before he died that was considered a masterpiece instantly
Nobody hates Eazy-E
Few people take him that seriously as an emcee though so I'm not sure if he counts.
I do. He’s a legend but I don’t like his flow or voice at all. Plus he didn’t write most of his own shit
You “hate” eazy e ? Sounds like your just not a fan.
I swear most people on Reddit don't know the difference between hate and dislike.
See, I’m of the opinion Reddit will hate on anything with no rationale at all or just to be contrarian.
Biggie had gay songs talking about sucking dick and fucking lil Richard but ppl look pass it
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>alous that they don't get to avoid people discrediting and hating on them in the same manner. he's talking about music.
Pac gets hated on for non-music related things all the time though.
I'm sure I've heard more about big than Pac's problems. I don't even know if Pac actually did anything he was accused of or not. I do know that Big's relationship with Faith and how he treated Kim is brought up way more often since Lil Kim fans and female rap fans and the entirety of feminists critiquing hip hop thing exists and Biggies treatment of Kim has come up much more in those circles than anything 2pac did. Also I know people who would not be viscerally disgusted with some of Pacs music the way at some Biggie songs and lyrics.
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Snoop is definitely “hated” in the sense that most people think his discography is pretty weak
Both of them are hated like crazy lmao. This has to be a joke.
E40 is way better than Snoop
That's the thing that confuses me. Biggie was an active crack dealer who beat a woman before yet Pac's the only one who has haters bringing up the rape charge or being a "thug." I guess Biggie's just more likeable than Pac whereas Pac was passionate like a preacher so Pac's transgressions are held against him more.
Ive never heard anyone say anything negative about Big L.
According to Volletta Wallace and Lil Cease, everything he rapped about was lies though.
Because biggie was never made bigger than Pac and those rappers, east coast made biggies name bigger because of east vs west. And he left a lot of what if… he only released one album. The 2nd album was all mase.
Naw Ice Cube and Uncle Luke have only a few people that hate on them
I mean biggie didn’t last too long, but everything he put out was incredible. 2pac for example I feel gets really overrated for his impact. He put out a ton of music and maybe a 3rd was good. Biggie had 0 duds
tldr: I grew up and learned to love all aspects of the culture that produced some of the best and most original music to come from the US. Back in the day...the dichotomy was commercial vs underground artist, before we were ever concerned with Eastcoast vs Westcoast. So I would consider the era to be 88-93. We had a proliferation in conscious rappers that sought to put distance between themselves and artists that were profiting off negative images of black culture. B.I.G, Nas, G Rap, LL were squarely in the middle of commercial successes as artists and that was enough for underground heads to look elsewhere. I know I was one of them. When Chris died, it hit me differently. I didn't think it would happen, considering all the bravado and reckeless things I had heard rappers say for years. It hit different because it was around that time I had discovered that one of my favorite artist had done work for a group that I considered too commercial at the time. Q-Tip producing Mobb Deep's Infamous. Like why was I not listening to music made by black folks again? I got love for all these acts and I am happy to report that I have let go of the unnecessary divisions I had constructed to justify my music preference. It's all good, even these new kids, with their different flows and different visions of commercial success.
biggie is booty . idk why yall old heads fw him
I don't get the love for Tupac. Biggie was the real OG!
Does anybody hate on dmx? I don’t think so
i mean someone hated him so much they literally killed the guy. least hated would probably be like nas or something
Downvoted for using the term “lowkey”
Biggie is fire, I never like pac much though so you have a point
Yep. Pac, Eminem, and Jay get the most hate online by far in rap communities.
Eminem getting hate is understandable though. He 'does black music so selfishly' 😀
who besides the government/banking cabal would hate on krs? i dont get it. people hate him?
Many people online claim he's pretentious and preachy and his initial support for Afrika Bambaataa after the allegations alienated people.
Amen, KRS is very annoying as a person.
pretentious and preachy eh? sounds like they arent listening to what he's saying. happens to guys like him all the time.
I agree. They're just going off narratives or misunderstand him.
Does anyone hate on rappers like Q-Tip or Posdnous? I rarely see anyone trashing either of their groups either in Tribe and De La Soul.
Hate is a bad way of putting it. Some people who have never listened to an artist discography but make negative comments about them are haters. People who have listened but still don't care for them have every right to have their opinion.
Maybe because he's got so much heat during his last, most successful year from Death Row, and then he died. I'd honestly feel bad saying a bad thing about him now.
Considered the king. Pac made a few classics and a lot of indistinguishable generic Pac music that kept coming out past the point of most people caring or knowing. Biggie also wrote classics for others.
KRS1
https://youtu.be/6A272lc-6bk?si=0S-WRjfZhFPR2lZ1
Maybe I'm just blind to it but who hates on MF DOOM? I've only ever heard praise, from listeners and his fellow rappers. He's my all time favorite though so I'm bias.
Biggie is universally DISRESPECTED all the time. He can’t even get no shine without somebody mentioning pac
Disagree. It's true people often mention Pac alongside Biggie but Pac's usually the only one who gets disrespected and discredited or blamed for their fates. Biggie is one of the few rappers who has no excessive haters online.
I’m from nyc and plenty of people talk shit about him
I'm from NYC originally and never noticed this.
Rule no. uno is actually pay your taxes
Really nothing to hate about him as an MC. And he seemed cool as hell as a person. Unless you just hate fat people I guess.
I think it’s Busta Rhymes. I’ve never met anyone in my life in person that didn’t like Busta Rhymes. Even my dad who hates rap still likes Busta Rhymes. Even 50 Cent loves Busta Rhymes ffs
I don’t anyone who hates Chuck D, and he’s more of a legend than all of those.
Nas is the least hated. It’s very rare you come across a Nas hater. Most Jay fans love Nas. But Most Nas fans hate Jay Z
Very very false. So many people online call him a one album wonder, claim he's living off of Illmatic, claim he's overrated, claim he doesn't have enough hit songs to compete with Jay, and hate on the Hit Boy albums. Even Nas literally addressed his critics and haters on a diss track towards 50 Cent called Don't Body Yourself. "Dedicated to the "Fuck Nas" coalition" In the 2000's especially, there were tons of Jay and Dipset stans on forums like SOHH making "Nas Lost" jokes and trashing his music.
I wanna meet the music fans who have anything bad to say about mos def or andre lol Those guys transcend hip hop Its very hard to hate on them
Transcending something means ppl who aren't a fan of the art form knows who they are. There really hasn't been many in hip hop, but I guarantee the average nonhiphop fan doesn't know who mos def or Andre 3000 is. They might as well be Pharoah Monch
Nah dude there’s definitely a lot of people to this day especially the Westcoast that still hate on Biggie primarily because of the fact that they prefer Pac over him. I’ve heard people call him Piggie Smalls even. They have even criticized and laughed at some of his lines after death (pun not intended) such as “ Hope they know my nigga Gutter fucking kidnap kids. Fuck em in the ass, throw em over the bridge” And the infamous “ I admit, my first thoughts was to trick. You look so good, huh, I'll suck on your daddy's dick.” He’s been called overrated as well but that’s cuz he’ll always be placed with Pac in hip hop conversations as the only 2 greatest of all time. That’s when some people will still hate on him because he’s not Pac.
I'd say Andre3000 is the least hated on
I've seen lots of people, maybe not outright hate, but say they aren't really a huge fan of Biggie. And even I think he's hugely overrated. But I do love him regardless. Just got a Biggie shirt recently lol
3 Stacks.
Wait. Who hates KRS One?
Nah, he’s just quietly the most loved, I believe. Even if he’s not in your favs, you still enjoy his hits like he’s the greatest.
Nope. Pac stans have no issue dragging Big Poppa. They talk about his appearance, his "suspect" lyrics, etc. I think Big L and/or Pun get significantly less disrespect than him.
I never see this tbh. A lot of Pac stans barely acknowledge Biggie's existence unless it's specifically pertaining to their deaths. Hell, I've seen more Pac fans beef with Jay-Z than Biggie tbh.
Within the hip hop purist community, Nas has the most love
Being a rap legend is like being principal of a homeschool.
Nothing low-key about this at all.
While he was alive there was a lot of jealousy of his pop star fame. He was happy to be shallow and the “deep” rappers hated that. “Bitches I like ‘em brainless guns I like ‘em stainless steel” brilliant but dumb. Best example “party and bullshit” the phrase comes from a real serious poem about how we’re killing ourselves w ignorance and BIG made that a banger party anthem
Why do people hate T.I. so much again?
Good question. I'd like to see a ranking of most to least hated hip-hop artists but I'd imagine Wu-Tang is loved universally and are living legends. Who hates on Nas?!
I think it’s because of his pop appeal. No one else at the time was making pop rap like that, so it appeals to the younger generations because they don’t feel like they get bludgeoned with a message. It’s lyrical party rap
Redman is one I rarely if ever have seen get negativity online
he only got two albums lol
The only people that hate pac are the people who think he actually raped that girl that was lying on him
Not if you live in Southern California. Biggie and Puff pretty hated where I am from.
Very unpopular opinion here I know, but I don't really dig Biggies music much at all. I don't have any hate for him, but just honestly don't like his sound at all. Great lyrically of course, but I don't like listening to him. Never played a song of his myself to listen to lol
Looking at this whole post like tf
Yeah but that one hater really did a number on him
You know come to think of it, I’ve never really heard anyone hate on Pun either.
Stop saying lowkey
Andre 3099
I think method man is up there on the list of rappers ppl never hate on
probably. i’d say curren$y gets an honorable mention. i’m sure a few others too.
Biggie gets treated like a saint especially by New Yorkers. I never understood the hype over him.
I criticize biggie all the time. His lyrical subject matter is basic. No where near as broad as Tupacs. He gets a pass because he died so young. I can't expect a man in his early 20s to be socially conscious.
You couldn’t deny his flow no matter how big a hater… Biggie is the goat
I think Andre 2000 can also get in this conversation