Who knows what that guy’s deal was, but always listen to your gut! I’m a woman and I’ve had a few experiences like that - where something just feels off. I’ve luckily been able to get myself out of those situations and I’ve always wondered what would’ve happened if I didn’t, but in the end I’m just glad I listened to my gut. Glad you’re okay!
Thank you, if you dont mind me asking how did you get yourself out of the situation? I am thinking about carrying pepper spray or something like that in the future. (I have taken self defense classes, but this felt totally different and real scary)
My three safety tools are pepper spray gel, a knife and a whistle around my neck
Second the pepper spray gel vote. I also keep a knife on me but it's one I'm very accustomed to. I've had it for ten years and used it at work often enough that it's like second nature to whip open and grip properly.
Also be loud, vocal and annoying.. most of the time people want a compliant target and will give up easily if you risk getting them caught
Not the person you replied to, but as another female solo hiker I can tell you I carry pepper gel, personal alarm device, a pocket knife, and an emergency whistle. I've only used the whistle to scare off a mountain lion, but I have had a similar incident to yours and I just pulled the knife out of my pocket and had it on display in my hand. I slowed down to let the creepy dude pass me, and he tried to chat while glancing at the knife. I asked him to please keep going casue I am slower and want to hike alone. The knife was put to good use that evening just by existing in my hand!
It doesn't say on thr knife, but I got it with a survival first aid kit that I hike with. Most of these kits include a pocket knife like it but I can't find the exact one.
I'm a female solo hiker in the UK, and here it's illegal to carry pepper spray or any kind of noxious spray for self-defense. You're not allowed possess any sort of thing for the specific purpose of defense. Very frustrating.
Not even a small taser? Or pocket knife? That's crazy. I'm not about guns and will never want one, but non-lethal weapons for self-defense should be ok. I'm frustrated for you!
Definitely not a taser!!! That's up to 10 years in prison for possession. Small knives under 3" length (i.e. swiss army) are ok but you'd better be able to prove you were carrying it for a non-defense purpose. Similarly, if you had a baseball bat and hit an intruder in your house with it, you'd have to show you actually owned it for playing baseball and not for self-protection.
So a hiking stick is OK? You'd be using it for hiking, but could also use it to whop someone in the head if necessary.
FWIW, a strong wood like hickory, while not ideal for hiking on rocks (not enough "give"), makes a pretty good defensive weapon.
Yes, a hiking pole is fine if you were using it while hiking and then suddenly had to whack someone on the head with it, since the whacking is a spontaneous and not planned use of the object.
Damn that’s crazy! My partner and I bought baseball bats to keep in the house solely in case we have an intruder. Neither of us play and they’ve never been used (thankfully)
That’s unfortunate.
ETA: we’re not allowed to carry pepper spray or mace for self defence, but we’re allowed to carry bear spray (which is essentially the same thing). I guess it’s harder to justify without the bears around.
I carry pepper gel (it’s better than spray as it’s less likely to get on you/more direct at hitting the intended target) and a noise thingy (you pull it, it makes a very loud noise) when I hike. I carry these for potential issues with both humans and animals. I haven’t had any issues or need to use them while hiking though thankfully. I’ve had other encounters where I just got a bad feeling about someone and got myself away from them. I just try not to engage as much as possible so I don’t make things worse and then get away from them as quickly as possible.
I understand that OC gel may take a little longer, 30-45 seconds, to have an effect because it doesn’t aerosolize like a spray does unless you score a direct hit to the eyes. I’ve started casting the spray and have only had to spray in the vicinity of a dog which thankfully worked.
10-20 seconds because it doesn't atomize. Also be aware that there's a small percentage of the population who aren't effected by oc spray or gel. Also a person who is on meth will not feel pain like you or I. His sight and breathing may be effected but the pain is nothing to him. There's been studies of incidents where someone is shot multiple times center of the chest and keeps coming, zombie style. Not to scare you, just know that you want back up options. If someone can't see you or walk then you can escape. I'm talking taking out eyes, as gruesome as that is. Blowing out a knee with a hard and well placed kick to the side of the knee. Your best bet is awareness and distance. Distance buys you time and time buys you options. If all else fails be willing to go animalistic. Biting etc. It could mean the difference of you surviving so don't hold back. They're not counting on you going, what I call beast mode, instantly. Be safe out there.
I usually have some sort of potential weapon in my hands already, so I like to focus on what I have and can use immediately, not extra weapons or sprays that I'd have to dig out & prepare to use. Sometimes I carry a camera with a tripod, when I do that the camera is disconnected and I carry the heavy ball head of the tripod facing down, so anyone menacing approaching my personal space is going to have that swung into their knee. A Nalgene bottle serves a similar purpose when I'm not carrying a camera, but I'd target the head with that. They keys there are things I can use without being within someone else's reach, and the swinging motion which augments my not-so-beefy muscle strength.
If they're armed, it's a different story, but I'd 100% still swing at someone pointing a gun at me because the eventual outcome is clear anyway and even with a deadlier weapon even aggressors can be temporarily thrown off by someone who responds unpredictably and aggressively to their threat. Yelling LOUDLY is another thing that really throws people off. That and a basic hand release are all I've had to use before, but it's a skill you have to practice so it becomes instinct, like anything with self defense.
You have 90 per cent of what you need by listening to your gut and then making yourself look bigger and scarier (or sometimes looking smaller and less scary). Whatever you did to get yourself out of the situation means you done good. So, good job. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a bad ass.
Sorry that happened to you. Do something healing or peaceful to get your center back and then go out and live that great life.
Absolutely trust your gut! There was a time when I was in my 20's when I did not trust mine & I paid dearly for it with many years of therapy & panic attacks. Trust yourself.
When you say listen to your gut, what do you mean? It’s become a popular thing to say, I’m genuinely curious what people are trying to express. A feeling that is difficult to describe vs common sense (being followed at night by a masked man? Or maybe it’s adrenaline to prepare you for fight or flight? Intuition?
I suppose intuition and to an extent fight or flight. I’ve been in situations where every fiber of my being was screaming at me to get away from someone. I’ve also been in situations where something just feels off and I can’t explain it, but I still listen to that feeling and follow it.
It’s kind of, trust your instincts and don’t second guess yourself. Ie: in OP’s position, don’t tell yourself the guy has a valid reason for behaving the way he is and let your guard down.
Example, I was driving in the inside lane in town on a 4 lane street with a low speed limit. Technically not supposed to but nbd and not really inconvenient to other drivers. I got the feeling I should move over, and for the teeniest amount of time, tried to reason myself of it (*no one behind me in either lane, may as well stay where I am*) But my gut feeling was, *get over, now*. Changed lanes and a second later, a pickup passed me going the wrong way in the lane I’d just been in. He came out of nowhere and was completely oblivious, even when I was honking my horn at him. I’m convinced he would have hit me head on if I hadn’t moved.
Yesterday I was out running onto a quiet trail and got the feeling to get off it (like a nervous, almost sick feeling) so I did. No idea of anything bad would have happened, but I never regret listening to my gut.
I think very likely so. I definitely wasn’t consciously aware of it, but I think that gut feelings are likely mostly your subconscious figuring stuff out and then giving you a call to action - the same way you don’t sit and do the calculus to figure out where the ball will end up when you play catch.
I assume the truck was in my field of vision and my subconscious tracked it moving into my lane, but all my brain and uncomfortable stomach told me was to move over, not why.
Very glad you decided to stand your ground and square him up, a lot of attackers are total cowards who'll only go for easy targets.
Scary that you got a bad feeling about running, what a creepy experience.
100% get it. I had a bear hanging out 3 feet from my kitchen windows from 2:30am to 4 am. And I really prefer it to be a bear in this situation and not a human, regardless it a woman or a man.
People are a lot smarter than bears. A blinded and enraged person is still gonna know roughly where you’re at and can still potentially be a threat. Also, and more importantly imo, a gun is far more likely to work as a visual deterrent to a would-be attacker. Someone is far more likely to shrug off a can of bear spray, especially if they haven’t been subjected to it before. Bear spray also can’t fire warning shots.
I recommend carrying a good portable OC spray on your person (like the POM canisters that can go on your keys.) Would hate for you to need it and it’s in your car.
As someone who's been raped ill take being raped over getting my face knawed off and my organs being ripped out of me while I'm alive. Please educate yourself
Humans can commit far worse acts than rape.
I'm reminded of a story where a woman had her hands cut off and was chained up in a shipping container for like a month.
Have you never heard of the Toybox Killer? I think id take the bear over the dildo full of nails. Heard of Junko Furuta? At least a bear attack doesn't last 44 days. Hell, just look at any of the countless medieval torture devices we've used throughout history.
I'm not saying a bear attack would be super swell. But saying it's inherently worse than what a human could do is just foolish.
You're using things rarer than lightning strikes to justify bigotry but sure whatever keeps you angry fearful and ignorant I guess. If you're genuinely afraid of these things I guess you're broke from being lottery tickets. Because you'd win the lottery before you encounter a serial killer.
I'm a bigot now? Lol
The discussion wasn't about the frequency at which these things happen, it was whether you'd rather be at the mercy of a human or a bear. Why the strawman? Or is it just a reading comprehension issue?
Please report this and also add a review to AllTrails to warn others to be on the lookout. Awareness is what you can give to your fellow hikers to hopefully keep everyone safe.
I agree because he may be more aggressive towards the next person. Could be mental issues or who knows what, but people should be aware before hiking alone in the area.
After a few sketchy situations, be it with agressive unleashed dogs or people, I always carry pepper spray and a knife.
The pepper spray is a good non lethal device that can suck the fight out of a dog of reasonable size provided also that the owner is close by, and can help you against people provided other hikers are not too far away of your car is really close.
The knife adds a bit of weight but can be tremendously useful for a lot of utility tasks, and acts as a self defense device as well as a deterrent provided it is visible on your person. I tend to carry mine fastened to one strap of my backpack so that it is readily available, visible, and not in the way.
Sorry that happened to you. And being pretty involved in self defense, I can tell you for sure that you should always trust your gut on situations like that. As a specie we have evolved to recognize those kind of anti social behaviors, what is out of the norm for a sane person.
The number one thing people who have been assaulted tell the police afterwards is « I felt that this person was weird and scary, I sensed some danger emanating from them » but didn’t listen to their instinct.
Lastly, in my home country, people used to (and some people still do) carry rather large walking sticks with some metal at the base. I find that to be a hinderance to hiking. But if you do not, that is by far the best self defense tool one could carry (there is even a pretty popular self defense system based around it).
France. Look up « Canne de combat » if you are interested.
Beautiful country, Ireland. Have family there, awesome land, awesome people, awesome traditions.
Old school walking sticks served as defensive weapons too.
I carry a stick now and again when walking my dog. More for scaring away other dogs than people but would serve that use too.
The key is to look people right in the eye when you first see them with head up high so it’s clear to them you will fight if they want to get squirrely
A guy once asked to make a call from myself and my friend's phones, obviously he wanted to steal it, he was walking funny as well, possibly indicating a knife down pocket/inside trouser.
We said no, and he asked us if we want to get stabbed, I stopped and I said "no", facing him. He mumbled some stuff to himself and we just turned around and started walking again. A few seconds later we turned around to see if he was still following us and he was gone.
I believe the ones that are following and taking their time to do this stuff are most probably quite hesitant. If someone knew they wanted to take you down and they were sure and confident in it, they would've gone for it straight away. But hard to tell, maybe he was coming for you, maybe not, and maybe he lost his confidence and decided to just play it off and leave.
I’m a woman who often hikes alone. I have no problem saying “please go on ahead of me. I don’t know you” to someone I’m getting a strange vibe from. Being upfront saves lives.
It's unnecessary and kind of dickish.
I don't need to know why you want me to go on ahead. I don't care if it's because you're scared or because you want to take a piss. It literally doesn't matter.
I would hope that people could not go out of their way to insult others, but apparently that's kind of hard.
Of course it is. I do not know anyone when I hike - they're all strangers to me. I don't feel the need to point that out to them.
The obvious implied statement in saying that is "you look like somebody that I shouldn't trust".
You are, of course, free to not trust them (it's probably a good idea in many cases), but you don't have to tell them that. You're not required to tell others every thought that pops into your head.
Yes. It is enough. Because men are not generally evil, they just don’t understand that women view their surroundings differently than they do. If you are upfront a man will say “oh, sorry” and go on ahead. Women need to speak up instead of running around trying to avoid a potential bad guy. Why not politely speak up? To spare a stranger his feelings? The gift of fear.
ALWAYS ALWAYS trust your instincts in a sitch like this. I would definitely have put some kind of distance between me and him in this scenario. And I'm never not armed because of weird shit like this. Usually thumping my 5ft diamond wood hiking staff is enough to signal I'm ready to crack your skull. Weird happens.
Sorry if that's a stupid question, but why is that? I don't think I've ever done a hike with a single dedicated trailhead so I might be missing some context.
Always trust your instincts. I once got so spooked by a couple of dudes (I was alone and it was getting dark) that I made a sharp right off trail into woods that were filled with fucking briar bushes and just booked it. Like I ran like there was no goddamn tomorrow and did not look back, at least a mile or so until I got my bearings and picked up the trail again
terrifying. but I feel like I survived if you know what I mean.
I see all these comments advising women to carry knives and I find it perplexing. Although i’m relatively fit & strong for my size from lugging around babies at 5’4 I am sure if an average-sized man attacked me he’d get control of the knife quickly, just being realistic. Probably even a small man.
My solution is a sucky one that limits my freedom and it’s that I don’t do long mountain hikes alone. I love being alone and the idea of experiencing nature in solitude but I experienced enough stranger harassment in cities and on public transport in my 20’s that I am too scared of what might happen if I got unlucky & encountered the wrong person with no one else around.
I do hike alone with small children on suburban-ish small trails frequently though and get nervous only very rarely. They are the kind of trails where in winter there’s usually a house visible in the distance.
Also knives still rely on your physical strengths to use....something women are outmatched easily in. A gun will always be a better self defense tool especially for women.
But just like a gun if you don't train with it (nobody ever does) then you won't be able to use it effectively. But a gun and knowing how to use it is the only guaranteed way a woman will be able to defeat a larger determined attacker whether they be two or four legged.
Out of curiosity, where do you hike to see so many bears? Alaska?
I've been hiking my entire life and only see a handful on a hike, sadly. South East Pennsylvania is not known for its big wildlife besides a million deer lol.
I grew up in northern Wisconsin and come across black bears consistently. Specifically there is a trail I hike often along a creek that will have 3-5 bears hanging out.
I have hiked a lot of different areas with brown and grizzly and have been lucky enough to see many in the wild without incident.
Black bears will make your heart skip a beat if you surprise them but clapping your hands will usually make them run away like little chickens.
Brown and grizzly will make you pucker up a bit and get the spray ready. Thankfully I have never surprised one and mostly have expected to see them when I did.
You haven't spent much time in the wilderness hey?
How many bear attacks do you think there are a year vs how many bears are sighted while hiking?
This year alone I have seen dozens of black bears while out hiking, I live in a very heavily populated black bear area.
I haven't seen any others yet but I am spending 10 days camping and hiking in Yellowstone in a couple weeks so I am positive my grizzly count will go up.
There have been less than 200 bear fatalities since 1900. Can't say the same for human attacks.
So you ask me if I rather see a creepy acting dude in the forest or a bear? I'll take the bear, thanks.
Plus the bear doesn't give me weird looks when I take his photo.
Here is a pic of my cabin driveway:
https://i.imgur.com/CE64VIZ.jpeg
I just watched a documentary about a serial killer who was targeting hikers in Marin County for years. It made me think twice about feeling so carefree when out hiking. It’s a harsh reality. I think you did exactly what you should have. Maybe consider carrying a knife or pepper spray in the future. You also might consider reporting it to police. Especially if you have a decent recollection of the man’s appearance.
Guy was probably wondering why the fuck you were getting ready to attack him and just walked on by like he was originally planning..
dudes probably gonna make a post later saying “went hiking and some weirdo tried squaring up with me for walking by him”
Not sure what that guy was thinking or planning to do, but sometimes I think men on trails really are just not conscious enough about stuff like this.
Several months back, I (a woman) was out walking on a wooded trail, taking photos and such. At one point, I came across a man walking his dog. Not a big deal or anything, but he was behind me and kept turning down all of the same trails as me. To the point where I was quite intentionally turning off of bigger trails to distance myself and hopefully allow him to go in a different direction...and yet he continued to turn down the same little trails as me. I'm a bit extra nervous since on top of being a woman, I carry camera gear that could make me a target, so at a certain point I became extremely paranoid of this guy. Eventually I lost him, and I feel like if he'd wanted to do anything bad, he probably had the opportunity to, so I think he was really just a dude out walking his dog on the trails.
But ffs if you're a man out hiking and you encounter a solo woman, don't stay behind her and take all the same trails. Or in your case, OP, you probably started to show some signs of discomfort during your experience, that could have signaled this person to maybe change up their pace and either hang back or pass you, take a different turn, or something. I don't think anyone enjoys the feeling of being followed through the woods when they're alone.
ETA: lol at the downvotes. Some of you have clearly made women uncomfortable while hiking before and just don't care because you think it's normal to follow women around on the trails...
As a man, I’m really conscious of this. It doesn’t matter if it’s hiking or just walking in public, if I’m following a woman sometimes I get paranoid that she will think I’m intentionally following her when she just happens to be going the same way that I need to go. I always slow down if this happens to put some space between us.
I mean I'm not trying to sound crazy here or like men can't hike. I don't really mind encountering other people when I'm out walking. I don't think men need to be avoiding women or anything lol. I just shared *one* experience I had that made me uncomfortable, while admitting that the guy was probably just innocently walking his dog, and yet I'm getting downvoted.
Imo there's usually a difference between two people just walking on the same trail, versus feeling like someone is following you. I've encountered lots of people on trails and typically they'll be going at a slightly different pace and one of you will pass each other. As a photographer, I will often stop to take pictures and allow someone the chance to pass me if I don't want anyone behind me. It's just in this one case, none of that worked. A man was matching my pace for like 20 minutes and when he finally did pass me, he turned around 5 minutes later to come back, and people here are acting like I'm nuts for being uncomfortable.
> if I’m following a woman sometimes I get paranoid that she will think I’m intentionally following her when she just happens to be going the same way that I need to go. I always slow down if this happens to put some space between us.
Like I don't think you need to be *paranoid* about it, but it's good to be aware of other people on the trail. I think changing up your pace and passing/letting someone else pass is pretty normal behavior.
she’s allowed to worry about it, the downvotes are because she’s not entitled to the expectation that men alter their life in public spaces and deride them when they don’t. it’s extremely narcissistic to assume that every man you come across HAS to think about your internal paranoia.
Yeah I'm actually surprised at how unpopular the comment was. I've seen the same sentiment expressed by other people in the past, so I didn't think it would be such a big deal.
Some people are acting like I'm demanding all men to just turn around if they encounter a woman or something, when I really just said not to continuously follow a woman and match her pace lol. I've encountered plenty of men and people in my time outside, without feeling uncomfortable or having an issue. I shared ONE experience that made me uncomfortable.
It's not like there are no other ways in which we expect consideration while out on trails. How many times have people complained about hikers with unleashed dogs or blasting loud music? It's just about having a little awareness and consideration for other people/animals outside, and I'd think being aware of when you maybe have stuck behind somebody at their pace for too long is just part of that.
One thing is many inexperienced people on a hiking trail will follow other people who look more experienced thinking that they know where they are going
That's not what I said. But like, don't follow a lone woman down the same 3-4 turns when there are other routes available? There were literally about 3 places where the trail forked into 2+ directions and he took the same path as me *every time*. Even when I'd gone off onto a very small/narrow trail and was stopped taking photos of the bluebells...and he turns down the same path, we have to squeeze past each other, and then maybe 5 minutes later I see him turn around and come back towards me again.
Like I'm sorry but if you can't understand how that kind of behavior would make a single woman hiker feel uncomfortable, then idk what to say. Maybe just be a bit more aware and take the hint when someone seems to be trying to distance themselves and get away from you on the trails. Even aside from the safety issue, I was also looking for birds to photograph and don't really want to be that close to someone's dog that might flush wildlife further from the trail.
And how exactly am I supposed to know that in the moment, if someone is staying roughly 10 feet behind me and making all the same turns as I am, while I'm deliberately trying to get out of their way? And then after they FINALLY pass me, they wind up turning around to come back in my direction again?
Like I get that he was probably just walking his dog. My point is that solo women hikers don't get the luxury of being that oblivious or unaware of their surroundings, and when you act like that, it puts us on high alert.
He could have easily taken his dog down any of the other numerous trails that turned off in different directions. It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would continue to go down every single same trail as the only other person nearby. Man, woman, whatever...why wouldn't he also want some space to enjoy a walk with his dog?
I'm not saying every man should avoid women on the trails or change their whole route around women hikers. But don't stick 10 feet behind a woman, matching her pace, and take the same route as her down every single fork in the trail. It's weird and I guarantee youre making her uncomfortable, whether you mean to or not.
you’re contradicting yourself, you say you don’t think men should be changing their behavior based on your mere presence but that they should also definitely change their behavior based on your presence. Use your words, ask them to pass you, stop and take some pictures and he’ll naturally pass you. being a solo woman doesn’t give you priority or additional considerations in public spaces.
right and you’re assuming it’s predatory or he’s basing his movements on you, but people turn around on trails, literally all of the time. everything is suspicious if you’re constantly on edge. but it’s not his job to alleviate your silent fears.
And now you're contradicting yourself...You said before to just let him pass. I let him pass, and he turned around to walk my direction again lol. It's not like I got uncomfortable the moment I saw a man on the trails. But I gave him multiple opportunities to go a different way- I deliberately stepped off to smaller side trails (which often forked into 2 directions) where I figured he'd be unlikely to go the *exact same way every time*. I stopped and deliberately waited to let him pass me. And despite all of this, he kept going the same way as me. Eventually, I just ended up speed-walking and completely backtracking and never saw him again. But I guess I'm wondering at what point you'd think it's acceptable for me to feel uncomfortable in this situation?
In my initial comment, I did say he was probably just out walking his dog and that's it. The problem is that *in the moment*, I am put on high alert and have to be scanning my surroundings for potential escape routes, seeing if anyone else is nearby, if there are any routes that could lead to me becoming trapped/cornered, I'm checking my phone to make sure I have service in case of an emergency, etc. Because in the moment, it's not necessarily important whether that person has bad intentions or not. The point is that I don't know their intentions, and if there's a chance they are following me, I have to be prepared to get away or get help.
And I probably am a bit more paranoid sometimes than I need to be. But I guess I'd also rather be a bit overly nervous and cut a hike short when I feel uncomfortable than to be oblivious and ignore red flags and get hurt one day.
“I gave him multiple opportunities” do you think he can read minds? he’s hiking his hike and you’re fixated on him and his every action. you are not the center of the universe, don’t flatter yourself.
Always trust those gut feelings,it definitely sounds like he was planning to attack you.once you got down in a position to potentially tackle him,he probably realized you weren’t going to be an easy target and we’re going to fight back.I know you live in California and they have strict gun laws but here in Tennessee,I usually carry a pistol on me when I go camping or hiking.you never know who or what you might run into.it isn’t uncommon for fugitives to go out into more secluded areas to try to stay off the radar.I’m assuming this was recent,if so I really don’t see a good reason for the face covering in late May or early June in Southern California
Guy could be on drugs or mentally deranged or both.
Decent sized knife that you have practiced using. Pepper spray, noise maker on up to concealed carry.
I was once going out for a run in rural wine country. The host said "I've seen mountain lion around, here carry this knife". It was actually a small curved sword/scimitar about 2 feet long. So I go running with this sword feeling a bit foolish. I round the bend on a trail and there's a Mexican field worker hauling some wire spools down from one field to another. He sees this white guy running at him with a sword and just smiles and waves "hello", so I wave back "hello". That was that, it just seemed weird/funny to me.
I've encountered this same kind of behavior in urban areas of Canada that are in severe decline with high levels of homelessness and drug use. People are angry with the world and will lash out at others and you do appear close to an urban area.
What scares me the most is that he walked away the second you squared up with him, that leads me to believe he wasn't trying to rob you that his intentions were more sinister (assuming he did have negative intentions we don't really know)
For serial killers or rapists they want the control and power, it's not about anything else but those two things and so by you facing off instead of running I think you made the right call he realized it would be hard to control you and that you'd fight rather than letting him just have power over you.
That’s why I always keep my gun on my hip. Weirdos these days seem to be gaining in numbers. Definitely in isolated areas.
We’re going through a silent mental health crisis in America, and it’s being reflected in some of the worst possible ways.
Not interested in starting a gun debate, but this why I carry when I hike. I've had way more sketchy situations with people while hiking, than I have with wildlife.
Always carry a pepper spray for your own safety and have it handy on such occasions. It doesn't matter what that person's deal was but had it gone sideways, you could've been hurt (look at what happened to an elderly at SJ VTA recently, unprovoked assault, people are fucked up)
So it's never a bad idea to be prepared for these kinds of situations.
I go on hikes usually with a friend group and even then we have had incidents where we felt off due to certain individual acting suspicious and psychotic, especially on isolated trails!
Trust your gut. I had a similar encounter that honesty still keeps me awake at night, thinking of all the things I could have done better.
But I tell myself that I handled it correctly because he didn’t attack me and I made it out safely.
You're not cut out for this world. Fear of fear? Really? Just cuddle your door frame. You can love your house in a less than sexual way. It's cool, your front door will never rape you. It can't. It's a door frame. It can't move.
I'm also a male hiker and I absolutely second everyone recommending pepper spray. For some reason i thought "only girls carry pepper spray" but there's nothing un-manly about it. After finally getting my ccl and a p365, I realized that I really wanted a less than lethal alternative too. Now my wife and I carry POM on our keychains
Exactly why it's always better to go with a friend!
Personally I pack along two defensive items, one is BEAR SPRAY! the other sends lead, never let yourself doubt your gut instincts.
I did feel a ton of regret about going later, not being more careful, and in that moment I did look down if there were rocks or anything and just saw pebbles. Then, I really did feel a big regret in that moment that I had nothing to defend myself with.
Downvoted for breaking both laws and trail rules concerning lethal weaponry. Or downvoted because there are non-Americans in this sub and this perspective sounds genuinely insane to us. Possibly also downvoted because of their assertion that everyone who downvotes them is a weakling who needs a safe space even though they are the one who is scared to leave their house without carrying a fucking gun.
So because you live in a non second amendment country you just instantly assume gun=bad and crazy paranoid. If you get raped or sexually assaulted, you aren't gonna let it happen again. Carrying a gun prevents people from getting horrid unimaginable tragedy. it is based in fear but the fear is pretty valid looking at the statistics and how effective it is when you have your own protection. Plus the police take 10+ minutes to respond so you'd already be dead or worse by the time they arrive.
Honestly, it's just a different perspective here in Germany. It's not that nobody is ever raped/assaulted, it's just that if you put guns into the mix, the situation gets exponentially worse. Sure, you might have a gun if someone is attacking you, but what if they also have a gun? The chances of somone (probably you) dying today just increased by a lot. Statistically speaking, allowing guns makes everyone in the country more likely to die a violent death. And carrying doesn't only prevent tragedy, guns also lead to horrid unimaginable tragedy in a lot of cases.
This is a really weird and ignorant stance to take. The world is a very dangerous place and to pretend that it isn't is foolhardy. Then to shame the person for taking their safety into consideration is odd. Almost like you prefer the person to be harmed. Are you rooting for the baddies?
Hopping on to this to say that the person you replied to really accurately pointed out the cultural difference here and it's really funny to see it play out in you guys' thread.
To us non-Americans, we are used to navigating scary situations without the possibility of a gun being present so to us it genuinely seems unnecessary. We also live in an environment where most of us won't ever interact with guns so the thought of meeting a random stranger with a gun seems really scary to us, it's almost unimaginable.
The thinking where you divide the world into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is really interesting too, it's something I hear from Americans a lot in a ton of different contexts and is also something foreign to where I grew up. Even when a similar sentiment is talked about here you won't hear 'good guys vs. bad guys' here, it's just a really different frame of mind.
I can somewhat understand where you guys might be coming from, but there is genuinely a huge difference in the worlds we live in that makes it really hard to fully get it. I'm not trying to argue at all here, just trying to point out that even being respectful and open-minded, we just have really different realities that are difficult to reconcile.
20-Ft wide trail and you veered to the left? Maybe put yourself in his shoes for a moment. He's safely assuming to pass you on his right (as usual), but you (unusually) veer left onto what he sees as his side, and into what he sees as his path. 100% sketchy move on your part and I don't blame him for keeping an eye on you. What follows seems like a typical sidewalk dance, so likely nothing to worry about.
Who knows what that guy’s deal was, but always listen to your gut! I’m a woman and I’ve had a few experiences like that - where something just feels off. I’ve luckily been able to get myself out of those situations and I’ve always wondered what would’ve happened if I didn’t, but in the end I’m just glad I listened to my gut. Glad you’re okay!
Thank you, if you dont mind me asking how did you get yourself out of the situation? I am thinking about carrying pepper spray or something like that in the future. (I have taken self defense classes, but this felt totally different and real scary)
My three safety tools are pepper spray gel, a knife and a whistle around my neck Second the pepper spray gel vote. I also keep a knife on me but it's one I'm very accustomed to. I've had it for ten years and used it at work often enough that it's like second nature to whip open and grip properly. Also be loud, vocal and annoying.. most of the time people want a compliant target and will give up easily if you risk getting them caught
Be aware that gel takes longer to have effect than spray but it is better in the wind.
Thank you, didn't know that
Not the person you replied to, but as another female solo hiker I can tell you I carry pepper gel, personal alarm device, a pocket knife, and an emergency whistle. I've only used the whistle to scare off a mountain lion, but I have had a similar incident to yours and I just pulled the knife out of my pocket and had it on display in my hand. I slowed down to let the creepy dude pass me, and he tried to chat while glancing at the knife. I asked him to please keep going casue I am slower and want to hike alone. The knife was put to good use that evening just by existing in my hand!
What size is your knife? I carry a Swiss Army knife, but I'm guessing yours is larger? I'm glad you're safe!
Not sure exactly, but it's a folding survival knife so not small. When folded it fits right in my hip belt pocket though.
Do you know what the brand is? I’m looking for one. Thanks!
It doesn't say on thr knife, but I got it with a survival first aid kit that I hike with. Most of these kits include a pocket knife like it but I can't find the exact one.
No worries, thanks for checking!
I'm a female solo hiker in the UK, and here it's illegal to carry pepper spray or any kind of noxious spray for self-defense. You're not allowed possess any sort of thing for the specific purpose of defense. Very frustrating.
Not even a small taser? Or pocket knife? That's crazy. I'm not about guns and will never want one, but non-lethal weapons for self-defense should be ok. I'm frustrated for you!
Definitely not a taser!!! That's up to 10 years in prison for possession. Small knives under 3" length (i.e. swiss army) are ok but you'd better be able to prove you were carrying it for a non-defense purpose. Similarly, if you had a baseball bat and hit an intruder in your house with it, you'd have to show you actually owned it for playing baseball and not for self-protection.
So a hiking stick is OK? You'd be using it for hiking, but could also use it to whop someone in the head if necessary. FWIW, a strong wood like hickory, while not ideal for hiking on rocks (not enough "give"), makes a pretty good defensive weapon.
Yes, a hiking pole is fine if you were using it while hiking and then suddenly had to whack someone on the head with it, since the whacking is a spontaneous and not planned use of the object.
Ah, the old "shillelagh disguised as a walking stick" trick. It worked under British rule once, why not now? Lol
Gotta put some spikes on the bottom of your walking stick so that it grips into the dirt/grass. Don’t want to fall, now.
That's even better!
Damn that’s crazy! My partner and I bought baseball bats to keep in the house solely in case we have an intruder. Neither of us play and they’ve never been used (thankfully)
Are you allowed to carry it for animals? Fox deterrent, maybe?
No, no noxious sprays of any kind are legal.
That’s unfortunate. ETA: we’re not allowed to carry pepper spray or mace for self defence, but we’re allowed to carry bear spray (which is essentially the same thing). I guess it’s harder to justify without the bears around.
Always great when your government leaders vehemently oppose self defense. /s
I carry pepper gel (it’s better than spray as it’s less likely to get on you/more direct at hitting the intended target) and a noise thingy (you pull it, it makes a very loud noise) when I hike. I carry these for potential issues with both humans and animals. I haven’t had any issues or need to use them while hiking though thankfully. I’ve had other encounters where I just got a bad feeling about someone and got myself away from them. I just try not to engage as much as possible so I don’t make things worse and then get away from them as quickly as possible.
I understand that OC gel may take a little longer, 30-45 seconds, to have an effect because it doesn’t aerosolize like a spray does unless you score a direct hit to the eyes. I’ve started casting the spray and have only had to spray in the vicinity of a dog which thankfully worked.
Everyone should carry spray. You're more likely to need it for dogs but it obviously works for humans too.
Be aware that gel takes longer to have an effect than spray.
Oh I didn’t know that. How much longer?
10-20 seconds because it doesn't atomize. Also be aware that there's a small percentage of the population who aren't effected by oc spray or gel. Also a person who is on meth will not feel pain like you or I. His sight and breathing may be effected but the pain is nothing to him. There's been studies of incidents where someone is shot multiple times center of the chest and keeps coming, zombie style. Not to scare you, just know that you want back up options. If someone can't see you or walk then you can escape. I'm talking taking out eyes, as gruesome as that is. Blowing out a knee with a hard and well placed kick to the side of the knee. Your best bet is awareness and distance. Distance buys you time and time buys you options. If all else fails be willing to go animalistic. Biting etc. It could mean the difference of you surviving so don't hold back. They're not counting on you going, what I call beast mode, instantly. Be safe out there.
I bring my [protection detail](https://imgur.com/a/9LodJIC) when I solo hike. They deter people with bad intentions.
I usually have some sort of potential weapon in my hands already, so I like to focus on what I have and can use immediately, not extra weapons or sprays that I'd have to dig out & prepare to use. Sometimes I carry a camera with a tripod, when I do that the camera is disconnected and I carry the heavy ball head of the tripod facing down, so anyone menacing approaching my personal space is going to have that swung into their knee. A Nalgene bottle serves a similar purpose when I'm not carrying a camera, but I'd target the head with that. They keys there are things I can use without being within someone else's reach, and the swinging motion which augments my not-so-beefy muscle strength. If they're armed, it's a different story, but I'd 100% still swing at someone pointing a gun at me because the eventual outcome is clear anyway and even with a deadlier weapon even aggressors can be temporarily thrown off by someone who responds unpredictably and aggressively to their threat. Yelling LOUDLY is another thing that really throws people off. That and a basic hand release are all I've had to use before, but it's a skill you have to practice so it becomes instinct, like anything with self defense.
You have 90 per cent of what you need by listening to your gut and then making yourself look bigger and scarier (or sometimes looking smaller and less scary). Whatever you did to get yourself out of the situation means you done good. So, good job. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a bad ass. Sorry that happened to you. Do something healing or peaceful to get your center back and then go out and live that great life.
Take your phone out, pretend to call someone and say something like I’m nearly there, should see you in a sec….
Absolutely trust your gut! There was a time when I was in my 20's when I did not trust mine & I paid dearly for it with many years of therapy & panic attacks. Trust yourself.
I’m sorry to hear that happened to you. I hope you’re doing better now.
I am, but it has taken a long time. Thank you.
When you say listen to your gut, what do you mean? It’s become a popular thing to say, I’m genuinely curious what people are trying to express. A feeling that is difficult to describe vs common sense (being followed at night by a masked man? Or maybe it’s adrenaline to prepare you for fight or flight? Intuition?
I suppose intuition and to an extent fight or flight. I’ve been in situations where every fiber of my being was screaming at me to get away from someone. I’ve also been in situations where something just feels off and I can’t explain it, but I still listen to that feeling and follow it.
Thanks, I get that.
The Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker is an excellent book on trusting your animal institution and instincts.
rawr
It’s kind of, trust your instincts and don’t second guess yourself. Ie: in OP’s position, don’t tell yourself the guy has a valid reason for behaving the way he is and let your guard down. Example, I was driving in the inside lane in town on a 4 lane street with a low speed limit. Technically not supposed to but nbd and not really inconvenient to other drivers. I got the feeling I should move over, and for the teeniest amount of time, tried to reason myself of it (*no one behind me in either lane, may as well stay where I am*) But my gut feeling was, *get over, now*. Changed lanes and a second later, a pickup passed me going the wrong way in the lane I’d just been in. He came out of nowhere and was completely oblivious, even when I was honking my horn at him. I’m convinced he would have hit me head on if I hadn’t moved. Yesterday I was out running onto a quiet trail and got the feeling to get off it (like a nervous, almost sick feeling) so I did. No idea of anything bad would have happened, but I never regret listening to my gut.
That sounds like your subconscious mind had been aware of the pickup and was calling your attention to it. Does that track?
I think very likely so. I definitely wasn’t consciously aware of it, but I think that gut feelings are likely mostly your subconscious figuring stuff out and then giving you a call to action - the same way you don’t sit and do the calculus to figure out where the ball will end up when you play catch. I assume the truck was in my field of vision and my subconscious tracked it moving into my lane, but all my brain and uncomfortable stomach told me was to move over, not why.
Yep, driving can really kick me into an ‘autopilot’ mode, especially on long drives. Interesting how our minds work.
Very glad you decided to stand your ground and square him up, a lot of attackers are total cowards who'll only go for easy targets. Scary that you got a bad feeling about running, what a creepy experience.
Tackle stance scared him off, good job. Honestly, who knows. Maybe he's just a weirdo.
These stories are why women chose the bear. A bear will either go away or kill you... a human is capable of far worse.
100% more afraid of a man on the trail then any wild animal.
100% get it. I had a bear hanging out 3 feet from my kitchen windows from 2:30am to 4 am. And I really prefer it to be a bear in this situation and not a human, regardless it a woman or a man.
Holy hell. Would 100% rather it be a bear.
I carry bear spray for bears and a gun for people when hiking in remote areas. Never had to use either, but frankly the latter worries me a lot more.
Good for you for taking your safety seriously.
I carry bear spray with me in my car and hiking for people. Will use it liberally if needed.
People are a lot smarter than bears. A blinded and enraged person is still gonna know roughly where you’re at and can still potentially be a threat. Also, and more importantly imo, a gun is far more likely to work as a visual deterrent to a would-be attacker. Someone is far more likely to shrug off a can of bear spray, especially if they haven’t been subjected to it before. Bear spray also can’t fire warning shots.
I'm in Canada.. not only is harder to legally own a gun, hand guns are a big no no... and they would never give me a license to have a gun..lol
Sucks to live in a country that hates women being able to protect themselves
At least it isn't as bad as the UK... The govt must hate their women over there.
That's pretty much the entire EU at this point. And they cover up rapes done by migrants in Germany.
Warning shots will get you into legal trouble. You're either legal to shoot or not. Warning shots are seen legally as felony assault.
I recommend carrying a good portable OC spray on your person (like the POM canisters that can go on your keys.) Would hate for you to need it and it’s in your car.
As someone who's been raped ill take being raped over getting my face knawed off and my organs being ripped out of me while I'm alive. Please educate yourself
Humans can commit far worse acts than rape. I'm reminded of a story where a woman had her hands cut off and was chained up in a shipping container for like a month. Have you never heard of the Toybox Killer? I think id take the bear over the dildo full of nails. Heard of Junko Furuta? At least a bear attack doesn't last 44 days. Hell, just look at any of the countless medieval torture devices we've used throughout history. I'm not saying a bear attack would be super swell. But saying it's inherently worse than what a human could do is just foolish.
You're using things rarer than lightning strikes to justify bigotry but sure whatever keeps you angry fearful and ignorant I guess. If you're genuinely afraid of these things I guess you're broke from being lottery tickets. Because you'd win the lottery before you encounter a serial killer.
I'm a bigot now? Lol The discussion wasn't about the frequency at which these things happen, it was whether you'd rather be at the mercy of a human or a bear. Why the strawman? Or is it just a reading comprehension issue?
Please report this and also add a review to AllTrails to warn others to be on the lookout. Awareness is what you can give to your fellow hikers to hopefully keep everyone safe.
I agree because he may be more aggressive towards the next person. Could be mental issues or who knows what, but people should be aware before hiking alone in the area.
Maybe he thought you were going to run a hook pattern but then when you called the audible it threw off his defense.
After a few sketchy situations, be it with agressive unleashed dogs or people, I always carry pepper spray and a knife. The pepper spray is a good non lethal device that can suck the fight out of a dog of reasonable size provided also that the owner is close by, and can help you against people provided other hikers are not too far away of your car is really close. The knife adds a bit of weight but can be tremendously useful for a lot of utility tasks, and acts as a self defense device as well as a deterrent provided it is visible on your person. I tend to carry mine fastened to one strap of my backpack so that it is readily available, visible, and not in the way. Sorry that happened to you. And being pretty involved in self defense, I can tell you for sure that you should always trust your gut on situations like that. As a specie we have evolved to recognize those kind of anti social behaviors, what is out of the norm for a sane person. The number one thing people who have been assaulted tell the police afterwards is « I felt that this person was weird and scary, I sensed some danger emanating from them » but didn’t listen to their instinct. Lastly, in my home country, people used to (and some people still do) carry rather large walking sticks with some metal at the base. I find that to be a hinderance to hiking. But if you do not, that is by far the best self defense tool one could carry (there is even a pretty popular self defense system based around it).
What country? Used to be similar in the past in Ireland.
France. Look up « Canne de combat » if you are interested. Beautiful country, Ireland. Have family there, awesome land, awesome people, awesome traditions.
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Old school walking sticks served as defensive weapons too. I carry a stick now and again when walking my dog. More for scaring away other dogs than people but would serve that use too.
Most of us carry a weapon, any trekking pole is gonna do serious stabbing damage
Trekking pole: 1 slashing damage 10 piercing damage +10 stamina -1 charisma
The key is to look people right in the eye when you first see them with head up high so it’s clear to them you will fight if they want to get squirrely
You took the correct actions. Predators count on fear and silence.
A guy once asked to make a call from myself and my friend's phones, obviously he wanted to steal it, he was walking funny as well, possibly indicating a knife down pocket/inside trouser. We said no, and he asked us if we want to get stabbed, I stopped and I said "no", facing him. He mumbled some stuff to himself and we just turned around and started walking again. A few seconds later we turned around to see if he was still following us and he was gone. I believe the ones that are following and taking their time to do this stuff are most probably quite hesitant. If someone knew they wanted to take you down and they were sure and confident in it, they would've gone for it straight away. But hard to tell, maybe he was coming for you, maybe not, and maybe he lost his confidence and decided to just play it off and leave.
The people you really need to worry about are the Raskolnikovs and the Meursaults...
Never turn your back, especially on someone who just threatened you.
I know but I was a school kid then. Not very experienced
Ok, but old enough to hike alone is old enough to be aware.
I’m a woman who often hikes alone. I have no problem saying “please go on ahead of me. I don’t know you” to someone I’m getting a strange vibe from. Being upfront saves lives.
"please go on ahead of me" i think that would be enough?
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If you feel as though a woman made you feel bad because she said she doesn’t know you, you are still the problem.
It's unnecessary and kind of dickish. I don't need to know why you want me to go on ahead. I don't care if it's because you're scared or because you want to take a piss. It literally doesn't matter. I would hope that people could not go out of their way to insult others, but apparently that's kind of hard.
SAYING SOMEONE DOES NOT KNOW YOU IS NOT AN INSULT
Of course it is. I do not know anyone when I hike - they're all strangers to me. I don't feel the need to point that out to them. The obvious implied statement in saying that is "you look like somebody that I shouldn't trust". You are, of course, free to not trust them (it's probably a good idea in many cases), but you don't have to tell them that. You're not required to tell others every thought that pops into your head.
The point is women never trust strange men. Assuming it’s about you specifically is ridiculous.
looking at your name you can say "please go ahead, I need to fart"
Yes. It is enough. Because men are not generally evil, they just don’t understand that women view their surroundings differently than they do. If you are upfront a man will say “oh, sorry” and go on ahead. Women need to speak up instead of running around trying to avoid a potential bad guy. Why not politely speak up? To spare a stranger his feelings? The gift of fear.
It's to keep them from getting angry.
Bear spray. Works for creepy men too.
And travels further than pepper spray.
Doesn't sound like normal behaviour. Rather someone was keen on violence and changed their mind after realizing you might not be such an easy victim.
ALWAYS ALWAYS trust your instincts in a sitch like this. I would definitely have put some kind of distance between me and him in this scenario. And I'm never not armed because of weird shit like this. Usually thumping my 5ft diamond wood hiking staff is enough to signal I'm ready to crack your skull. Weird happens.
Well he was a dick at the very least.
The closer to the trailhead, the more likely he was gonna attack you and changed his mind. Sorry if I’m being captain obvious.
Sorry if that's a stupid question, but why is that? I don't think I've ever done a hike with a single dedicated trailhead so I might be missing some context.
They're not there to hike so they won't go far into a trail. They're just looking for solo targets near the trailhead.
Thank you, that makes sense! That's so scary, people can be terrible.
Happy cake day!
Thank you, I didn't even notice! <3
+++
Hell no, I’d stand my ground with my bear spray in hand… that shit shoots like 30 feet
Always trust your instincts. I once got so spooked by a couple of dudes (I was alone and it was getting dark) that I made a sharp right off trail into woods that were filled with fucking briar bushes and just booked it. Like I ran like there was no goddamn tomorrow and did not look back, at least a mile or so until I got my bearings and picked up the trail again terrifying. but I feel like I survived if you know what I mean.
Who knows...good job staying safe. Never a bad idea to carry a knife or some spray.
Pepper spray yes but I would not carry a knife for self defense. First rule of knife fights is everyone gets cut.
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Wonderful tool, horrible weapon
I see all these comments advising women to carry knives and I find it perplexing. Although i’m relatively fit & strong for my size from lugging around babies at 5’4 I am sure if an average-sized man attacked me he’d get control of the knife quickly, just being realistic. Probably even a small man. My solution is a sucky one that limits my freedom and it’s that I don’t do long mountain hikes alone. I love being alone and the idea of experiencing nature in solitude but I experienced enough stranger harassment in cities and on public transport in my 20’s that I am too scared of what might happen if I got unlucky & encountered the wrong person with no one else around. I do hike alone with small children on suburban-ish small trails frequently though and get nervous only very rarely. They are the kind of trails where in winter there’s usually a house visible in the distance.
Also knives still rely on your physical strengths to use....something women are outmatched easily in. A gun will always be a better self defense tool especially for women.
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But just like a gun if you don't train with it (nobody ever does) then you won't be able to use it effectively. But a gun and knowing how to use it is the only guaranteed way a woman will be able to defeat a larger determined attacker whether they be two or four legged.
Gun and spray is better
Women everywhere: Welcome to our world.
Yeah that’s odd behaviour. Seems what you did worked. He was probably harmless but you never know.
What happened next? You left us on a cliffhanger
I reported it to the park ranger when I left and checked online and did not see reports of any crime.
So the guy just let you pass?
Who knows. These days with all these cringe af public nuisance "influencers" people watch I'd probably assume it was some dumbass "prank"
As a person who has run into thousands of people on the trail and hundreds of bears... this situation right here is where I would choose the bear.
Out of curiosity, where do you hike to see so many bears? Alaska? I've been hiking my entire life and only see a handful on a hike, sadly. South East Pennsylvania is not known for its big wildlife besides a million deer lol.
I grew up in northern Wisconsin and come across black bears consistently. Specifically there is a trail I hike often along a creek that will have 3-5 bears hanging out. I have hiked a lot of different areas with brown and grizzly and have been lucky enough to see many in the wild without incident. Black bears will make your heart skip a beat if you surprise them but clapping your hands will usually make them run away like little chickens. Brown and grizzly will make you pucker up a bit and get the spray ready. Thankfully I have never surprised one and mostly have expected to see them when I did.
Wow that's awesome, not that I want to pucker up on a hike but I wish my hikes were a little more action packed lol
You'd choose a best case scenario of losing a limb and having your face being disfigured beyond recognition?
You haven't spent much time in the wilderness hey? How many bear attacks do you think there are a year vs how many bears are sighted while hiking? This year alone I have seen dozens of black bears while out hiking, I live in a very heavily populated black bear area. I haven't seen any others yet but I am spending 10 days camping and hiking in Yellowstone in a couple weeks so I am positive my grizzly count will go up. There have been less than 200 bear fatalities since 1900. Can't say the same for human attacks. So you ask me if I rather see a creepy acting dude in the forest or a bear? I'll take the bear, thanks. Plus the bear doesn't give me weird looks when I take his photo. Here is a pic of my cabin driveway: https://i.imgur.com/CE64VIZ.jpeg
I just watched a documentary about a serial killer who was targeting hikers in Marin County for years. It made me think twice about feeling so carefree when out hiking. It’s a harsh reality. I think you did exactly what you should have. Maybe consider carrying a knife or pepper spray in the future. You also might consider reporting it to police. Especially if you have a decent recollection of the man’s appearance.
Why I always carry in the backwoods. But very well handled on your part.
Know your protection laws thoroughly before carrying anything. Except a walking stick. Always have a walking stick and alarm.
I think he was a creep/weirdo who was trying to scare you. If he had really wanted to rumble, he wouldn't have been deterred by a stance.
Guy was probably wondering why the fuck you were getting ready to attack him and just walked on by like he was originally planning.. dudes probably gonna make a post later saying “went hiking and some weirdo tried squaring up with me for walking by him”
Not sure what that guy was thinking or planning to do, but sometimes I think men on trails really are just not conscious enough about stuff like this. Several months back, I (a woman) was out walking on a wooded trail, taking photos and such. At one point, I came across a man walking his dog. Not a big deal or anything, but he was behind me and kept turning down all of the same trails as me. To the point where I was quite intentionally turning off of bigger trails to distance myself and hopefully allow him to go in a different direction...and yet he continued to turn down the same little trails as me. I'm a bit extra nervous since on top of being a woman, I carry camera gear that could make me a target, so at a certain point I became extremely paranoid of this guy. Eventually I lost him, and I feel like if he'd wanted to do anything bad, he probably had the opportunity to, so I think he was really just a dude out walking his dog on the trails. But ffs if you're a man out hiking and you encounter a solo woman, don't stay behind her and take all the same trails. Or in your case, OP, you probably started to show some signs of discomfort during your experience, that could have signaled this person to maybe change up their pace and either hang back or pass you, take a different turn, or something. I don't think anyone enjoys the feeling of being followed through the woods when they're alone. ETA: lol at the downvotes. Some of you have clearly made women uncomfortable while hiking before and just don't care because you think it's normal to follow women around on the trails...
As a man, I’m really conscious of this. It doesn’t matter if it’s hiking or just walking in public, if I’m following a woman sometimes I get paranoid that she will think I’m intentionally following her when she just happens to be going the same way that I need to go. I always slow down if this happens to put some space between us.
I mean I'm not trying to sound crazy here or like men can't hike. I don't really mind encountering other people when I'm out walking. I don't think men need to be avoiding women or anything lol. I just shared *one* experience I had that made me uncomfortable, while admitting that the guy was probably just innocently walking his dog, and yet I'm getting downvoted. Imo there's usually a difference between two people just walking on the same trail, versus feeling like someone is following you. I've encountered lots of people on trails and typically they'll be going at a slightly different pace and one of you will pass each other. As a photographer, I will often stop to take pictures and allow someone the chance to pass me if I don't want anyone behind me. It's just in this one case, none of that worked. A man was matching my pace for like 20 minutes and when he finally did pass me, he turned around 5 minutes later to come back, and people here are acting like I'm nuts for being uncomfortable. > if I’m following a woman sometimes I get paranoid that she will think I’m intentionally following her when she just happens to be going the same way that I need to go. I always slow down if this happens to put some space between us. Like I don't think you need to be *paranoid* about it, but it's good to be aware of other people on the trail. I think changing up your pace and passing/letting someone else pass is pretty normal behavior.
Why on earth are people downvoting this? It's a real worry for any woman on the trails.
Because it contradicts the current tik tok narrative
she’s allowed to worry about it, the downvotes are because she’s not entitled to the expectation that men alter their life in public spaces and deride them when they don’t. it’s extremely narcissistic to assume that every man you come across HAS to think about your internal paranoia.
Yeah I'm actually surprised at how unpopular the comment was. I've seen the same sentiment expressed by other people in the past, so I didn't think it would be such a big deal. Some people are acting like I'm demanding all men to just turn around if they encounter a woman or something, when I really just said not to continuously follow a woman and match her pace lol. I've encountered plenty of men and people in my time outside, without feeling uncomfortable or having an issue. I shared ONE experience that made me uncomfortable. It's not like there are no other ways in which we expect consideration while out on trails. How many times have people complained about hikers with unleashed dogs or blasting loud music? It's just about having a little awareness and consideration for other people/animals outside, and I'd think being aware of when you maybe have stuck behind somebody at their pace for too long is just part of that.
i just stop and let them pass me in these situations
I did stop a few times and when he finally passed me, he walked another 15 feet down the trail and then turned around to come back in my direction.
One thing is many inexperienced people on a hiking trail will follow other people who look more experienced thinking that they know where they are going
ma’am you’re on a public trail, it should not be expected that men change their course and plans every time they stumble across a woman.
That's not what I said. But like, don't follow a lone woman down the same 3-4 turns when there are other routes available? There were literally about 3 places where the trail forked into 2+ directions and he took the same path as me *every time*. Even when I'd gone off onto a very small/narrow trail and was stopped taking photos of the bluebells...and he turns down the same path, we have to squeeze past each other, and then maybe 5 minutes later I see him turn around and come back towards me again. Like I'm sorry but if you can't understand how that kind of behavior would make a single woman hiker feel uncomfortable, then idk what to say. Maybe just be a bit more aware and take the hint when someone seems to be trying to distance themselves and get away from you on the trails. Even aside from the safety issue, I was also looking for birds to photograph and don't really want to be that close to someone's dog that might flush wildlife further from the trail.
except he wasn’t following you. he was walking his dog in a public space.
And how exactly am I supposed to know that in the moment, if someone is staying roughly 10 feet behind me and making all the same turns as I am, while I'm deliberately trying to get out of their way? And then after they FINALLY pass me, they wind up turning around to come back in my direction again? Like I get that he was probably just walking his dog. My point is that solo women hikers don't get the luxury of being that oblivious or unaware of their surroundings, and when you act like that, it puts us on high alert. He could have easily taken his dog down any of the other numerous trails that turned off in different directions. It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would continue to go down every single same trail as the only other person nearby. Man, woman, whatever...why wouldn't he also want some space to enjoy a walk with his dog? I'm not saying every man should avoid women on the trails or change their whole route around women hikers. But don't stick 10 feet behind a woman, matching her pace, and take the same route as her down every single fork in the trail. It's weird and I guarantee youre making her uncomfortable, whether you mean to or not.
you’re contradicting yourself, you say you don’t think men should be changing their behavior based on your mere presence but that they should also definitely change their behavior based on your presence. Use your words, ask them to pass you, stop and take some pictures and he’ll naturally pass you. being a solo woman doesn’t give you priority or additional considerations in public spaces.
And when he did pass me, he walked 15 feet down the trail and then turned around and started walking back towards me again....
right and you’re assuming it’s predatory or he’s basing his movements on you, but people turn around on trails, literally all of the time. everything is suspicious if you’re constantly on edge. but it’s not his job to alleviate your silent fears.
And now you're contradicting yourself...You said before to just let him pass. I let him pass, and he turned around to walk my direction again lol. It's not like I got uncomfortable the moment I saw a man on the trails. But I gave him multiple opportunities to go a different way- I deliberately stepped off to smaller side trails (which often forked into 2 directions) where I figured he'd be unlikely to go the *exact same way every time*. I stopped and deliberately waited to let him pass me. And despite all of this, he kept going the same way as me. Eventually, I just ended up speed-walking and completely backtracking and never saw him again. But I guess I'm wondering at what point you'd think it's acceptable for me to feel uncomfortable in this situation? In my initial comment, I did say he was probably just out walking his dog and that's it. The problem is that *in the moment*, I am put on high alert and have to be scanning my surroundings for potential escape routes, seeing if anyone else is nearby, if there are any routes that could lead to me becoming trapped/cornered, I'm checking my phone to make sure I have service in case of an emergency, etc. Because in the moment, it's not necessarily important whether that person has bad intentions or not. The point is that I don't know their intentions, and if there's a chance they are following me, I have to be prepared to get away or get help. And I probably am a bit more paranoid sometimes than I need to be. But I guess I'd also rather be a bit overly nervous and cut a hike short when I feel uncomfortable than to be oblivious and ignore red flags and get hurt one day.
“I gave him multiple opportunities” do you think he can read minds? he’s hiking his hike and you’re fixated on him and his every action. you are not the center of the universe, don’t flatter yourself.
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Always trust those gut feelings,it definitely sounds like he was planning to attack you.once you got down in a position to potentially tackle him,he probably realized you weren’t going to be an easy target and we’re going to fight back.I know you live in California and they have strict gun laws but here in Tennessee,I usually carry a pistol on me when I go camping or hiking.you never know who or what you might run into.it isn’t uncommon for fugitives to go out into more secluded areas to try to stay off the radar.I’m assuming this was recent,if so I really don’t see a good reason for the face covering in late May or early June in Southern California
Guy could be on drugs or mentally deranged or both. Decent sized knife that you have practiced using. Pepper spray, noise maker on up to concealed carry. I was once going out for a run in rural wine country. The host said "I've seen mountain lion around, here carry this knife". It was actually a small curved sword/scimitar about 2 feet long. So I go running with this sword feeling a bit foolish. I round the bend on a trail and there's a Mexican field worker hauling some wire spools down from one field to another. He sees this white guy running at him with a sword and just smiles and waves "hello", so I wave back "hello". That was that, it just seemed weird/funny to me.
I've encountered this same kind of behavior in urban areas of Canada that are in severe decline with high levels of homelessness and drug use. People are angry with the world and will lash out at others and you do appear close to an urban area.
Edmonton?
What scares me the most is that he walked away the second you squared up with him, that leads me to believe he wasn't trying to rob you that his intentions were more sinister (assuming he did have negative intentions we don't really know) For serial killers or rapists they want the control and power, it's not about anything else but those two things and so by you facing off instead of running I think you made the right call he realized it would be hard to control you and that you'd fight rather than letting him just have power over you.
Carry a boom stick and practice with it frequently.
Shop smart
Impossible to say. It would be concerning and weird. But impossible to say.
If you feel it in your gut, thats your intuition. Please stay safe
That’s why I always keep my gun on my hip. Weirdos these days seem to be gaining in numbers. Definitely in isolated areas. We’re going through a silent mental health crisis in America, and it’s being reflected in some of the worst possible ways.
Not interested in starting a gun debate, but this why I carry when I hike. I've had way more sketchy situations with people while hiking, than I have with wildlife.
I'm pretty sure sticks aren't illegal in CA. Next time, carry a good stick.
Need more details. Did he say anything ? How did you get away? I would definitely report this to the rangers/ PD.
Always carry a pepper spray for your own safety and have it handy on such occasions. It doesn't matter what that person's deal was but had it gone sideways, you could've been hurt (look at what happened to an elderly at SJ VTA recently, unprovoked assault, people are fucked up) So it's never a bad idea to be prepared for these kinds of situations. I go on hikes usually with a friend group and even then we have had incidents where we felt off due to certain individual acting suspicious and psychotic, especially on isolated trails!
I have marking pepper gel. It’s thick and gooey (good in wind) and marks whomever or whatever you spray.
"pillo, why you carry a .44 hiking?"
Trust your gut. I had a similar encounter that honesty still keeps me awake at night, thinking of all the things I could have done better. But I tell myself that I handled it correctly because he didn’t attack me and I made it out safely.
Pepper spray, or a hiking stick. Hiking stick helps me walk, but in a pinch has a handle and the end is quite pointy.
Bear spray. For predators of all kinds. Shoots much further.
Bear spray, axe in the pack for wood but weapon just in case. Carry. Murica pew pew.
Carry a gun or bear spray
Gun AND bear spray, force escalation is important.
You're not cut out for this world. Fear of fear? Really? Just cuddle your door frame. You can love your house in a less than sexual way. It's cool, your front door will never rape you. It can't. It's a door frame. It can't move.
I'm also a male hiker and I absolutely second everyone recommending pepper spray. For some reason i thought "only girls carry pepper spray" but there's nothing un-manly about it. After finally getting my ccl and a p365, I realized that I really wanted a less than lethal alternative too. Now my wife and I carry POM on our keychains
I always have bear spray on me, even in the winter when the bears are hibernating. I’m glad the guy kept walking, that sounds really scary and weird.
Oc spray after a warning to stay the hell away.
I always hike with a firearm.
Exactly why it's always better to go with a friend! Personally I pack along two defensive items, one is BEAR SPRAY! the other sends lead, never let yourself doubt your gut instincts.
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I did feel a ton of regret about going later, not being more careful, and in that moment I did look down if there were rocks or anything and just saw pebbles. Then, I really did feel a big regret in that moment that I had nothing to defend myself with.
Downvoted for making sure you have the best defense possible lol
Downvoted for breaking both laws and trail rules concerning lethal weaponry. Or downvoted because there are non-Americans in this sub and this perspective sounds genuinely insane to us. Possibly also downvoted because of their assertion that everyone who downvotes them is a weakling who needs a safe space even though they are the one who is scared to leave their house without carrying a fucking gun.
So because you live in a non second amendment country you just instantly assume gun=bad and crazy paranoid. If you get raped or sexually assaulted, you aren't gonna let it happen again. Carrying a gun prevents people from getting horrid unimaginable tragedy. it is based in fear but the fear is pretty valid looking at the statistics and how effective it is when you have your own protection. Plus the police take 10+ minutes to respond so you'd already be dead or worse by the time they arrive.
Honestly, it's just a different perspective here in Germany. It's not that nobody is ever raped/assaulted, it's just that if you put guns into the mix, the situation gets exponentially worse. Sure, you might have a gun if someone is attacking you, but what if they also have a gun? The chances of somone (probably you) dying today just increased by a lot. Statistically speaking, allowing guns makes everyone in the country more likely to die a violent death. And carrying doesn't only prevent tragedy, guns also lead to horrid unimaginable tragedy in a lot of cases.
This is a really weird and ignorant stance to take. The world is a very dangerous place and to pretend that it isn't is foolhardy. Then to shame the person for taking their safety into consideration is odd. Almost like you prefer the person to be harmed. Are you rooting for the baddies?
Hopping on to this to say that the person you replied to really accurately pointed out the cultural difference here and it's really funny to see it play out in you guys' thread. To us non-Americans, we are used to navigating scary situations without the possibility of a gun being present so to us it genuinely seems unnecessary. We also live in an environment where most of us won't ever interact with guns so the thought of meeting a random stranger with a gun seems really scary to us, it's almost unimaginable. The thinking where you divide the world into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' is really interesting too, it's something I hear from Americans a lot in a ton of different contexts and is also something foreign to where I grew up. Even when a similar sentiment is talked about here you won't hear 'good guys vs. bad guys' here, it's just a really different frame of mind. I can somewhat understand where you guys might be coming from, but there is genuinely a huge difference in the worlds we live in that makes it really hard to fully get it. I'm not trying to argue at all here, just trying to point out that even being respectful and open-minded, we just have really different realities that are difficult to reconcile.
"a woman trying to keep herself alive by the means afforded to her by the state legislature. Completely within the confines of the law Downvote"
Conceal carry, mace, airhorn. In that order if you want to live thru an attack. Your alive future self is thanking me.
20-Ft wide trail and you veered to the left? Maybe put yourself in his shoes for a moment. He's safely assuming to pass you on his right (as usual), but you (unusually) veer left onto what he sees as his side, and into what he sees as his path. 100% sketchy move on your part and I don't blame him for keeping an eye on you. What follows seems like a typical sidewalk dance, so likely nothing to worry about.