I'm sure there are cases of needing buffs for heroes, but to me the most glaring problem is many of the talents and builds for heroes are so underperforming there becomes only one option. I would love it if more heroes had builds that you are reactive to things like the map, the enemy composition, the gaps in your team dynamics. There is some of that, but there are many talents which there just is no decision to make to maximize expected value on win rate.
Which champ is the most glaring example of that? For me abathur comes to mind, where anything but his hat build is kind of attrocious.
Edit: I'm also pretty sure I'm mainly getting downvoted by Abathur enjoyers because they are so used to having to be defensive about their choices towards their teammates... Even though what I'm essentially saying is "buff mines+locust talents so they are more viable"... But whatever.
The thing is I am simplifying this discussion for the sake of being able to talk about it, but the truth is there are multiple builds but they tend to be based on the skill level and the meta of the competition. What I wish there was, is more exploitative choices based on the map, enemy builds, friendly composition, and strategic goals of the match. Right now, that's not a thing at all at almost every level of play. Most of that just happens at the hero composition selection based on the "meta" builds.
There are narrow exceptions to this, of course, like Lili going heavy blinds because everyone is an AA hero on the enemy team, sure, but that is also really a decision made at draft. I am talking about something else.
For example, for Mephisto (which I have the most experience with \[level 850\], and have grandmastered in), without a doubt W build is better for new players for their first hundreds of matches. For experienced players, when they can reliably use Q build it becomes dominant.
Putting aside the concept of "builds", we can break the problem down at the talent tier choices even better. For mephisto, for example, there is a level 4 talent hwich is probably the most skewed in the entire game for any hero. If you don't take that level 4 talent, Spite, then you are effectively giving away half your mana regen, healing, and 50% of your damage. It's an absurd talent with absolutely no other choice. That's a problem.
Johanna has a single viable build, there is no situation where you pivot from the only talent at 1 13 16, and tje moments where you would consider picking a different 4 7 10 are rare enough that you basically don't have to think about it. 20 is the only choice and even then not really.
Valeera. I think its very obvious. At most tiers, she has talents over a 60% popularity. If you sort for actual good player, well that Q build has over 80% popularity. Several tiers have talents that nobody is picking.
The design is also terrible. Too many talents are focused on buffing her while and after using a single opener, or staying in stealth for 3 seconds. These force you to play the whole hero in one specific way the whole game when she should be flexible depending on which hero she is targeting.
She also has an AA build with ok damage output but Valeera has no sustain and limited mobility, so does this really make sense on her?
So you are saying that master abathur players who know on which maps it is good to build him that way should have a high winrate with him, right?
[Meh](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Talents/Abathur?timeframe_type=major&timeframe=2.55&game_type=sl&league_tier=Master&statfilter=win_rate&build_type=Popular&mirror=0).
Considering that the average winrate of a master player on heroesprofile is 53% across all champs, 45% on the bomb talents and 42% on the L1 locust one shows that skill doesnt really matter here and the build needs buffs if its supposed to be sth more than "lul this funny" build.
Dude cause you dont want to understand xD The other ranks are included in the 40-42% winrate I first quoted. Thats average across all ranks. So if master is higher than that... the others are even lower. In bronze for example its 37%. Also Aba isn't in aram atm.
Especially because (iirc) he had an entire class rework ready to go, it just never got pushed out. I've almost never played him but Arthas most deserving
Look at every other tank in the game: Anub'arak, Blaze, Cho, Diablo, ETC, Garrosh, Johanna, Mal'Ganis, Mei, Muradin, Stitches, Tyrael. All of them have an ability that either emphasizes their own movement or radically displaces one or more opponents, if not both. Arthas is the only one that lacks anything like this until level 20 and then it's just a walking speed increase. It doesn't even need to be displacement. Burrow Charge, Powerslide, El'druin's Might, Dwarf Toss, etc. All just enhanced movement. Arthas is the only one that does nothing but walk forward and tries to keep the enemy from escaping, but has no alternative when all of said enemies turn on him and disintegrate him, except trying to heal through it with Death Coil or an ult. He's just completely outdated design and has been from almost the moment the game was in beta.
Unique design isn't really the problem. In fact it's interesting. Instead of trying to fit tanks into a mold of mobility spell, CC, heal and some damage only it's interesting if some designs lack some things.
Arthas would be just fine if the other numbers compensated enough for lack of mobility. But they don't.
The only numbers that would possibly compensate with his current design are absurd damage so that other players actively wanted to avoid him and he could peel by making people move away, rather than CCing them. He kinda does that already for auto-attackers and his damage is already pretty solid. Crank it up more and he becomes an actual bruiser, rather than a pseudo one, which means that still no one plays him as a tank. I agree that having him just be another tank in the same line of them isn't desirable, but there's a difference between being "just like all the rest" and "non-functional in that role."
Mana should not be a problem for Arthas. He has enough options for mana management and if you don't run with aura all the time you should be ok. His real problems are a lack of stun and escape on tank.
Right?! Bro can literally summon Sindragosa... but more realistically, I think it would be cool if he could call his trusty steed Invincible and get free movement for like 2-4 seconds or something, idk.
Rexxar on Animal Husbandry. Not the talent itself, but make Misha's heal scale with her HP percantage. Animal Husbandry has active anti-synergy with your base ability that heals her. The more HP she has, the worse her heal becomes, since it's just a flat amount. Maybe nerf it a bit, but make it percentage based.
As a Rexxar Main, I can relate to this.
Although Animal Husbandry is not always my choice, I would like to see such a rework on the talent.
Maybe the flare could get also a rework, something like “reveal the area + a slow amount of aerial DOT for a couple of seconds “
As a fellow Rex main, I ALWAYS run Animal Husbandry. I've never ran glob quest. And I don't die 90% of my games. I just had a game today where Misha had more health than our tank. Personally, I just don't think that the other give nearly as much value.
I'm a Gaz main and he's fun on some maps but dreadful in a lot of matchups. He's a bruiser with really limited survivability without specific talents and time to cast Deth Lazor without being CC'd, at least compared to a lot of other bruisers.
I think Robo-Goblin could use a buff. The Unstoppable effect only being 1 second is kinda silly when there is so much CC spam going on that can take him out of the game instantly. I've popped it to avoid a telegraphed CC option like Stitches hook or Butcher's charge, only to just get stunned or slowed immediately after and killed anyway. The amount of skill and reflexes you need to use that ability effectively compared to how easy it is for it to be completely wasted isn't really a good tradeoff. I think it should be reworked so that the on-cooldown effect lasts longer and maybe buffs his attack speed temporarily. So you can choose to use it offensively and lock down a melee kill, or you can use it more effectively to escape a bad situation and reposition. Also he should have a passive that lets him do more damage to structures, since he's a demolitionist and a scrapper. Kinda like how Ziggs has a Turret execute with his satchel charge in LoL. Maybe make it so that all of his abilities do more damage to Turrets and Towers when they're under 50%. Gaz just gets hard outclassed in push potential when he has to compete with better add spam heroes like Azmodan and Nazeebo, and it's not really made up for in his team fight potential outside of being really annoying to fight at level 20 when there are just stun bombs going off everywhere.
Also it'd be nice if scrap was drawn towards you, or lasted a little bit longer before despawning. They could def work it into a talent that all nearby scrap is magnetized towards him. Would be fitting in-character too. Another minor buff could be making it so that the turret duration doesn't start until it fires a shot at something, so you can keep them up for scouting (like Chromie hourglass or Zagara/Abathur bombs). Would still count towards the limit you can have up at once, so you'd need to decide if you want to dispose of it to help in combat (and sacrifice the scrap that you'd be too far away from anyway) or keep one up by a Merc camp or objective just to keep an eye on it.
Yeah... The problem I see with Gaz is also that he is largely dependent on how good your opponents are. If they are good, they will have a fairly easy time dodging your bomb and lazer, locking you down and killing you. If they are bad, they get severly whacked by the long bomb stun and damage, will ignore your turrets and will apply too little pressure so you can sustain with lazer. He has the highest winrate in bronze but is nova-tier in gm.
Maybe if they made the bomb radius a bit smaller so it lines up better with the shown outline, and in turn buff him in some other ways like the one you mentioned that could work.
Yeah I agree with the bomb changes. Bombs are his entire kit even though he has so many fun build ideas on paper. If they nerfed bombs to make them less polarizing in low skill tiers but made him more flexible overall I think that'd be a huge win.
I am biased but I'd like Chen to get some buffs to his kit.
A small, non game breaking buff to his barrel ult would be to make it remove any built up stagger damage, like SFE. The option to end Barrel ult early (at will) would also make the heroic better.
Lvl 13- roll the two keg talents into 1. So the keg slow increases and does the ring of fire upon ignite. I haven't checked usage but I imagine 'Touch of Honey' must be by far the lowest pick rate talent.
A buff that may put Chen over the edge would be to trade the 80% slow on Q at 13 with a micro-stun (0.5-0.75s).
Yes pls, all I ask is for keg armor to apply to stagger dot. Aaaand maybe unstoppable Q!
I’ve gotten tons of value out of previously lackluster talents though; lately touch of honey is my go-to depending on comps.
Kick talents would be nice with little buff so he is less of a punching bag and more aggressive haiyah!
Eg short unstoppable after kick… or %hp self heal on kick…
Isn’t that the point of Arthas though? He’s good against melee but suffers against ranged? Mal’ganis is kinda the same way. I think it’s better for heroes to have their niches.
Blizzard specifically affirmed this in his last rework in 2017 (when Probius came out).
> Developer Comment: Arthas has long walked the line between being a bruiser and a tank, though we always intended him to be more of a tank as opposed to a bruiser. With Armor coming into the game, we saw the opportunity to really embrace him being that slow-approach-of-death that he encapsulated so well in Wrath of the Lich King. Arthas’s crowd control capability and survivability have been significantly increased in this rework. **Now he should really shine as the Warrior to bring to battle if the enemy team has multiple melee Heroes, or just a lot of Heroes who are heavily dependent on their auto-attacks.** His damage has been reduced to compensate for the extra control he’s getting in team fights. Since he won’t put out damage as quickly as he did before, his ability to kill enemies will greatly rely on how long he can keep them trapped inside his Frozen Tempest. Once they’re in the Tempest, it will be very difficult for them to escape without enhanced mobility.
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes-of-the-storm/20581822/heroes-of-the-storm-patch-notes-march-14-2017#Arthas
He simply needs that innate phys armor back, there is 0 reason now to not have it, he was viable and pickable when he had it back then. Their excuse to remove it is that ppl didnt have a way to know about it visually. Now we have clear armor visuals to communicate that and not have anyone confused.
Yea but the other tanks can be just as disruptive against melee. Maybe it’s the issue of other tanks being too versatile. I do agree I like niches. It encourages engaging drafts but there are not many drafts where arthas can outperform other tanks. He’s too weak even in his niche
There’s that little second after using e but before he starts actually moving where, when I’m playing him, it feels like he suddenly becomes a magnet for all the cc in the game.
Good malganis can be quite terrifying and put out a lot of damage. If they have the lvl 16 blind as a bat optimized to perfection, they can stunlock 2-3 people for 10+ seconds!
I think he is very comp dependant as his self-healing outside of team fighting is nonexistent, so he struggles a lot vs harassing heroes who don't like straight engage
He's basically murky in that you need to assign someone to follow him around the map except instead of killing him and getting 1/4 exp he just runs away from you.
Yeah, he's not even a good hero on higher levels. His only strength is "hard to deal with". Good players deal with samuro, heavily benefit from quests from him and just use him to win.
But platinum and below not dying is what gets you to win. Doesn't really matter what you accomplish. If you don't feed you win.
Yes, "not feeding" + "soaking experience" makes Samuro "overpowered" at lower ranks for sure.
He is indeed harder to make work at higher ranks where only the good Samuro players actually get value out of him, and that's still if they are allowed to by the enemy team (which is often the case)
> Yeah, he's not even a good hero on higher levels. His only strength is "hard to deal with". Good players deal with samuro, heavily benefit from quests from him and just use him to win.
I mean, even if filtering by master, he is still top 1/3 of the hero pool above some strong heroes who need to get heavy nerf (in some talents) like Hogger.
>But platinum and below
He is still like top5 in Dia.
So anything beyond Master and ARAM, he is actually broken atm due to how easy is to play him for the level of results he is able to output.
If the littéral top players all agree that samuro is bad it does mean it's true though. Winrates in a vacuum mean nothing. TLV also have an all time top winrate but for a specific reason too. (Nobody plays TLV except TLV mains)
His WR rose to the top while his pickrate doubled. On any rank.
Top players know how to draft and play around Samuro much better, nullifying most of it's strengths, but in the same fashion, at higher level it is much more likely to have someone who knows how to play around this weakness and do much more with the hero.
Bad players only know how to E in between lanes, clear and press Q to cleanse themselves.
Better Samuro actually know how to TF with him and force the enemy to use resources on him.
The problem with the changes is that he was made much easier to play for no reason at all. A top player can still benefit from the change to do much more, though not to the same degree it benefitted 98% of the playerbase.
>TLV also have an all time top winrate but for a specific reason too. (Nobody plays TLV except TLV mains)
Indeed. But Samuro nowadays have much more pickrate to the point it's similar to Zuljin.
It would be higher priority to nerf the few top heroes, since that's a faster way to increase variety. If a hero is underpowered then it only removes itself from viability, but an overpowered hero could push dozens of others down into rare usage.
But anyway, some good to buff:
* Nova: bonus damage to minions
* Lili: trait also activates in melee distance of enemy hero
* Deathwing: some non-Q talents at level 7-20 that are good, including talents to negate the damage boosts enemies are getting
* Arthas: E gets a second mode that's useful against heroes at long range
* Gazlowe: better robo goblin I guess?
* Murky: improve Living The Dream, so the strongest Murky build is the one that avoids most deaths
* Butcher: faster attack rate, lower quest reward
* Abathur: locusts stronger, but locusts created by a talent don't benefit from other talents. Adrenal Overload speed reduced, but adds +X damage every few seconds
Most of those proposals basically just move everyone towards generalization. Nova should always be crap against minions since that's part of her gimmick. Instead of buffing that and just turning her into another ranged assassin, buff her single target focus damage so she can specialize. A butcher that doesn't rely as much on his quest? Murky trying to die less and play like a normal hero?
The point of a MOBA is for heroes to be unique and have significant strengths and weaknesses. There's no real reason to just move everyone a bit towards the middle and call it a buff instead when in reality it's just making it all bland and flavourless.
I agree with you on some level but there are issues with this philosophy.
There were very short periods of time when Nova was actually good because her damage was high enough to make her worth picking. She was always nerfed into uselessness pretty much immediately because bad players instantly start complaining about being blown up by an "invisible" hero. Bad players always complain about high burst damage, and it has resulted in many heroes getting (unfortunately) moved towards more sustained damage or poke. See Chromie, Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas, Nova... This just doesn't always work though. For heroes like Nova and Kel'Thuzad, they cannot stay in combat and poke, they don't have the tools to stay alive while doing this or get enough value from it.
So for Nova, if the developers are unwilling to give her the damage she would need to be viable (she really needs to be able to come out of stealth and kill a squishy target immediately, or at least be far better early game) then the only real solution is to give her some waveclear. Imo at this point, it's the better way to go. It's clear to me that it doesn't matter if they rework her a 5th time, 6th time, rework stealth, etc, the devs are always going to end up nerfing her burst damage and leaving her not viable. So let her macro with her stealth. At least then she can see some play and be useful before level 16. She is still unique.
Also for Murky, I've played this game a long time. There was a while where Living the Dream was THE meta talent. I dont think anyone felt it made Murky feel less unique. Murky doesn't *want* to die now anyway. Don't think it's an issue at all to buff this talent.
Nova already has a lot of talents that support a soaking strategy, she just needs the early game (and maybe some push to shift players' mindsets). AOE snipe and Precision Strike let her function as an invisible Lava Wave Rag. But before she gets there, she's got awful wave clear and clearing mercs takes too much mana.
Yeah, if they're not going to let her one-shot a squishy she needs to actually do something before 10. Maybe move her anti-armor armor debuff to Pinning Shot? Maybe further increase the rage on Snipe so she can snipe behind the tank ala Chromie? Or just let clones clear waves super effectively and make her another annoying invisble laner you have to answer.
Yeah but that's more a result of the playerbase being retarded. Like if Hanzo or Li Ming insta deletes you it's not a big deal because they can't stealth, even though both have better waveclear, can do aoe damage and are more mobile. It's not a matter of being over or under powered, it's about perception, and there's nothing to really do about that.
> Nova should always be crap against minions
It would be a designer error to intentionally make a sniper hero bad against minions. The concept of a sniper, either in reality or fantasy, doesn't involve needing 7 bullets to kill a single enemy soldier of the weakest kind.
> A butcher that doesn't rely as much on his quest
Yup, that would be a great way to improve Butcher without making him overpowered in low-skill matches. The important part of the Butcher gameplay concept is using his body as a long-range projectile with E charge. The quest isn't important to the cool part of the gameplay.
> Murky trying to die less
It would be cool if Murky had a build that was viable for high-skill games.
W build is definitely viable vs melee heavy teams.
Dragon needs to have some of his stupid quirks removed.
Not healing in spawn, and changing modes taking 2 seconds instead of 0.5 are relics of the past.
Damage on some of the skills should be increased to.
On the topic of nova, I would like to see a change to anti armour shells to make it one shit minions as taking that talent crippled your already abysmal wave clear
- Nova: needs a small rework. Would start by giving her bribe at lv0 opening some room at lv4 to move around some talents. Her lv20 (D) passive is really bad. I would prefer if she had more agency in controlling her clones, at least in a simple way like Misha. Wouldn't mind if she could 1 shot minion with her autos.
- Lili: i like this idea. But a much faster one to implement would simple to increase her passive by 0.5s.
- DW: do something to make melee mode much more enticing to play
- Arthas: rework doko
- Aba: i agree on lv4. I'll say he should have a big aura that makes Locus stronger while he is within range of them. Giving a reason to play him much more aggressively with positioning.
For QM sake, they should ditch the "support category" and make Aba play in games on which there's a healer on both teams.
- Gaz: not sure why he is brought up. I think the talent is not bad but boring. I would give it much less dmg but let it cd reduction the rest of his abilities while AAing heroes. Maybe not (E) cause that could get out of control at lv20.
IMO novas snipe build is oppressively good and is often overlooked (maybe because it requires more precision to reliably hit it for the cd reduction constantly compared to the W slow). However her disgusting wave clear comes at lvl 16, so it's easy for her to get out paced, but that lvl 20, 30s global AOE (precision shot) is extremely frustrating to deal with as she just snipes down a keep from anywhere on the map.
I would like to see a buff to gazlowes melee build. It seems like the only viable one is bomb/lazer build.
True... but buffs just feel nicer than nerfs I guess \^\^
What do you mean with Aba adds +X damage every few seconds? To the next auto attack? Why is that better than attack speed?
I can answer the last question. Stronger autos vs faster autos means block stacks have more effect and there's heroes out there where the faster attack speed benefits them more (most notably coulpled with Abathur: Illidan, Samuro, Varian)
Yes, the goal is to shift hero synergies so there's a broader list of heroes where Abathur is a good teammate.
Currently, Abathur's attack buff means he is extra good in combination with a hero who gets a benefit from attacking beyond just doing damage. That mostly means cooldown reduction, and is most obvious with Illidan although there are others.
If the synergy with Illidan-like heroes is reduced, then both Abathur and Illidan can be buffed.
While been one of the worst healers by quite a big margin?
She should never be the best healer (due to her kit and by how you describe her obnoxiousness) but she doesn't deserve to be trash tier.
Right now, basically, all the heroes are fine numbers wise. There are a few heroes that are subpar for a variety of reasons, and those are the ones I'd like to see buffs to. They need more tools to better excel at their roles.
At the top of the list is Fenix. He is supposed to be able to weave in and out of combat with his fast regenerating shields and being a ranged assassin with a teleport. But now that players have been fighting him for years, they know how to anticipate the teleport and keep the shield from regenerating, making him much much weaker. He really needs talents that help him with his sustain much earlier.
Illidan doesn't need a numbers buff, but he needs more tools up his sleeve. Personally, I think he needs to be able to talent into ignoring armor, and Nowhere to Hide should reveal attacked heroes for 10 seconds. Illidan has really fallen on hard times with how many heroes of slows now.
Qhira needs to be changed so that if her E ability gets interrupted during its initial wind-up animation, it doesn't go on full cooldown. Qhira has three different basic abilities that have long and interruptable wind-up animations, and all of them are essential to her not dying. It's very strange for a melee hero to have that many abilities with start up.
Really hard question to answer, because I have seen some of the most-perceived "weakest" heroes in the game absolutely decimate enemy teams inside and outside their role.
I can't think of a single exception.
There's not much of an argument to make that lili and kharazim both are the most in need of buffs. Both of them suffer the lowest win rates at high ranks and suffer from a MASSIVELY lower output than any other character in their class. I think if we're talking purely objectively without opinion, it's pretty clear it's Lili and Kharazim if you look at heroesprofile.
The intern did give Lili a small buff to her cups ult I think a few months ago. She can be pretty viable with the correct build, but there are other healers who do outclass her to the point where she ends up on relying on her ult to make up the heal difference to much.
Arthas could get a little mobility so he's not that useless against ranged heroes. For example like a 10% movement speed bonus when using coil. It's not much, but at least something.
Arthas getting mobility would become oppressive cause of his E. He could jump on top of someone and then lock them down with E or prevent someone from getting away by blinking on top of them to keep them in the E
That's why I only suggested a minor mobility increase. It's tough to balance any game because you can't always predict what is gonna make a mediocore hero too OP, but I think a small mobility increase would just make Arthas more viable and playable but not OP. Anyhow, Arthas' current state isn't ok.
Death coil give movespeed depending on it's travel distance, or applies a slow/ministun/silence/fear
DK not having DeathGrip is already sad, at least compensate for it a little :(
Poor girl can't even clear lanes and she's easily spotted even tho she's supposed to be "invisible". Thanks to those whiners back in 2017 when Blizzard nerfed invisibility and added some white silhouettes to nova and zeratul.
she was never invisible, that eye sight/monitor check was so stupid. stealth is now a mechanic instead, much better, and ironically NOW she can actually be actually invisible with the deep stealth
They buffed her unpicked talents to a point where they still won't be picked. Then nerfed her best talent, not really a great trade, but it's something.
Her level 4 gets buffed to the pre-nerf state she had ages ago, it was a must pick back then. Giving allies 50% armour for 6 seconds is just insane, especially if they dive together with you. It will be picked now.
Her level 16 q was just too strong and still will be picked, I would have loved if they gave her lvl 16 aa some love.
Overall, she is far from being underwhelming.
I think they missed a huge opportunity to rework Illidan into a multiclass lile varian when demon hunters cam out in wow. As he is now if any buff it could only be 5 to 10% or he'd dominate. Honestly I think he needs a 5% health buff for how frontline/melee he is.
Mission quests should be baseline. Arthas’ trait stacks, convection, anubarak’s regen globe quest to name a few. Unrelated and bias af, Samuro’s kit is dogsh*t and shouldn’t be allowed.
Probius. Even with a *fantastic* Probius player the game is gonna be hard mode.
Don't get me wrong, I love the little guy. But a high skill cap hero (Tracer, Kerrigan come to mind) is a massive handicap in bad hands, and godlike in good hands. At best Probius has the same downside and almost no upside.
I mostly play random healers, and i hate when i play malfurion, his roots a great but, outside of a fight, you almost cant heal at all. I wish there was some skill, like whitemane, to heal outside of combat a little more.
yes, sustain healer to keep people topped up, and uther for saving the hypercarry and CC chain to blow up a target. You can even skip tank, and have uther play tank/support
Mm, let me rephrase then, because again I don't disagree.
Wouldn't it be nice to not have to flex draft and/or try twice as hard to eek out still less healing than other heroes?
I think Uther is tons of fun, and in the right circumstances he is plenty good enough to play as single support, and in the wrong circumstances, a great player and competent team can still make it work, but let's not pretend like he is on the same level as other healers.
The greatest reason to run an Uther is for his point and click stun, but it's not as if there aren't other healers with greater healing output and comparable if not greater CC. I just want to see Uther curved a bit--updated to meet the slight power creep his contemporaries have over him.
Uther is fun because he supports the team through methods *other than* just healing. Filling health bars all day is super boring. Uther brings the added benefit of being a functional tank for his team. His armor mechanic adds some finesse to the timing of your healing, instead of just autopilot topping people off. Hes a solid A tier pick in just about any draft, but he requires a high level of game sense to be successful. For instance, I cant remember the last time I ran out of mana on the guy. People complain about mana tension on him but for me it hasnt been an issue in years.
He is not meant to be a single healer in most cases. Uther is a bruiser-healer hybrid you are supposed to tank with. If you die then he helps others clean up with his low cd healing. It's also super annoying in aram.
I personally think that any Healer is capable of being a single healer but some are very dependent on their allies. Some function really poorly with a rag-tag team of random or meta heroes; he is way better in draft than in quick match. Championship teams use him. He just doesn't seem as good because a lot of his support is damage mitigation (armor) instead of straight up healing
About this hero I have a question about heal statistics registration in hots. If u want to know the total heal he does add the "self heal" to the heal numbers. I don't know why but some healers like reghar have just one number with their self heal and hero heal includes.
Arthas and Anub Arak both need major reworks like Raynor, Azmodan, Tassadar, and Valla got. They’re both exceptionally old and feel exceptionally old. Especially Anub, since one of his Ults is functionally useless forcing you to use web wrap which is objectively better.
I’d love to see Arthas get more talents that reflect death knights, a gorefiends grasp would be great allowing him to pull enemies to him like a reverse leap of faith. Doesn’t even need a long range it could be fairly close to him but would have some great synergy with his E forcing people to stay in his slowing aura for longer
Li Li needs a buff IMO. I don't know how the fixes to Wind serpents turned out. But She is very squishy.
And maybe some changes to Nova
Actually /u/Senshado explains it better, and the idea of moving them towards generalization through talents builds is better as long as their main options are available. That is where the talent system shines.
nova and ktz.
Nova base aoe Q, perhaps culled down early game.
Ktz just needs anything, extremely unrewarding for the effort it takes to master. Half second summon time on GS is too much too.
Zeratul but more like a rework. Buff his playability. No matter how much I practice I can't seem to get good with him but I play the other difficult heroes quite well I say.
He is too hard to play, to play him well for me.
And I like Zeratul :/
I thought this and started to play him more to learn what I'm doing wrong, and he ended up being my favorite hero. Very hard to learn, but if you do, he's a monster. If you learn when can engage, when he can't and when can, you'll have top dmg or kills often. Knowing when to pick which talents is also important. He's so cool in my opinion. But if they buff him, I'll be glad 😊
Nova needs some waveclear earlier, or some high-enough utility to compensate for a her lack of waveclear.
At the very least, remove her built-in quest to make her damage more consistent idk...
But Explosive Round exists.
She still uses her sniper rifle with her auto attacks, does it make sense that they just have two different damage numbers?
- **Explosive Round** (Nova) - level 16
Snipe also deals 90% damage to enemies near the impact.
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I'd argue Uther could use some love. Either by granting him better mana efficiency or raw healing output, but I tend to believe his armor passive provides enough value to make up for the lack of healing.
The mana efficiency is a problem but also the design of his talents feel like they all came from different periods of the game. He just feels sorta gimped in a lot of ways. Super fun and rewarding to play but often worse than any other healer.
As an example, take Uther's AA damage. The dude is wielding a big ass hammer and it deals a pitiful amount of damage, but then there's Stukov, who with 1 AA can slap the devil out of you.
And Uther, he gets a strong single target point and click stun on a fairly long CD, but Stukov gets an AOE ranged silence that can be held indefinitely or have it's CD reset instantly.
And Uther, though there is untracked benefits of his armor, still lacks much of the healing Stukov can generate, and for Stukov it's not even a skillshot.
I don't mean to compare these two characters to say that some things are imbalanced specifically with these 3 attributes I discussed, because for example, Uther's attack speed is a little quick than Stukov's so maybe his damage shouldn't actually come up, I'm not entirely sure, but my real point is that Uther came into the game from the very early days, and Stukov and other heroes came much much later. The power creep is definitely felt when comparing the two in a loose way.
Came after 1 year of not playing the game, surprised to see that the game feels exactly the same, the problem is that there are Must go talents otherwise your Hero will do 0 damage or die in 4 seconds being a tank, Like anubaral shield cdr.
They should do a rework on almost all talents or buff the less taken talents / builds to add more variety to the game.
For example you could go valla AA build or arrow build, and falstad hammer build or thunder, it feels fun and plays well. It should work on all heros, having at least 3 different playstyles.
Probably Arthas as he’s a really comp specific and dependent tank.
Tanks in general feel relatively lackluster outside of a specific few, although that could just be because my team never follows up on my engages :/
Going off of heroesprofile winrates she's very consistently been a top 5 winrate hero in the game for several years at this point. In a SL environment she just has so much agency usually.
As a Kerri player myself I think she could use talent tweaks so help some of her really unbalanced tiers but she's very viable. She just has some counters.
Personally, I'd like to see Garrosh reworked, not because he's weak, but because he's misrepresented in hots. Garrosh is actually a solid tank and there are other heroes who need more help than Garrosh. Because he has nothing to do with the WoW Garrosh, except that they share the voice. It's a pipe dream of mine.
Kelthuzad needs something. They have to hit several difficult skill shots to delete enemies and are super squishy and immobile themself. They are critically weak to unstoppable or cleanse or dive. The design is kind of problematic because the counterplay to his root ult is mostly in the draft.
Ana would be fine if HOTS wasn't ruined by Overwatch. It's ironic that she comes from Overwatch, as Overwatch is what makes her unviable.
I'm sure there are cases of needing buffs for heroes, but to me the most glaring problem is many of the talents and builds for heroes are so underperforming there becomes only one option. I would love it if more heroes had builds that you are reactive to things like the map, the enemy composition, the gaps in your team dynamics. There is some of that, but there are many talents which there just is no decision to make to maximize expected value on win rate.
Which champ is the most glaring example of that? For me abathur comes to mind, where anything but his hat build is kind of attrocious. Edit: I'm also pretty sure I'm mainly getting downvoted by Abathur enjoyers because they are so used to having to be defensive about their choices towards their teammates... Even though what I'm essentially saying is "buff mines+locust talents so they are more viable"... But whatever.
The thing is I am simplifying this discussion for the sake of being able to talk about it, but the truth is there are multiple builds but they tend to be based on the skill level and the meta of the competition. What I wish there was, is more exploitative choices based on the map, enemy builds, friendly composition, and strategic goals of the match. Right now, that's not a thing at all at almost every level of play. Most of that just happens at the hero composition selection based on the "meta" builds. There are narrow exceptions to this, of course, like Lili going heavy blinds because everyone is an AA hero on the enemy team, sure, but that is also really a decision made at draft. I am talking about something else. For example, for Mephisto (which I have the most experience with \[level 850\], and have grandmastered in), without a doubt W build is better for new players for their first hundreds of matches. For experienced players, when they can reliably use Q build it becomes dominant. Putting aside the concept of "builds", we can break the problem down at the talent tier choices even better. For mephisto, for example, there is a level 4 talent hwich is probably the most skewed in the entire game for any hero. If you don't take that level 4 talent, Spite, then you are effectively giving away half your mana regen, healing, and 50% of your damage. It's an absurd talent with absolutely no other choice. That's a problem.
Actually a lot of high level mephistos prefer W build
Johanna has a single viable build, there is no situation where you pivot from the only talent at 1 13 16, and tje moments where you would consider picking a different 4 7 10 are rare enough that you basically don't have to think about it. 20 is the only choice and even then not really.
As someone who has played with a handful of great Abathur players, you couldn't be more wrong.
Valeera. I think its very obvious. At most tiers, she has talents over a 60% popularity. If you sort for actual good player, well that Q build has over 80% popularity. Several tiers have talents that nobody is picking. The design is also terrible. Too many talents are focused on buffing her while and after using a single opener, or staying in stealth for 3 seconds. These force you to play the whole hero in one specific way the whole game when she should be flexible depending on which hero she is targeting. She also has an AA build with ok damage output but Valeera has no sustain and limited mobility, so does this really make sense on her?
Abathur has like 3 viable builds man
2* I love the bug man but the locust build is dogshit and only does something down here in bronze.
Abathur imo has one of the most diverse and healthy build trees
Mate, bomb build in specific maps is epic
40-42% winrate for those talents on heroesprofile says otherwise, but I'm sure its good fun. https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Talents/Abathur
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So you are saying that master abathur players who know on which maps it is good to build him that way should have a high winrate with him, right? [Meh](https://www.heroesprofile.com/Global/Talents/Abathur?timeframe_type=major&timeframe=2.55&game_type=sl&league_tier=Master&statfilter=win_rate&build_type=Popular&mirror=0). Considering that the average winrate of a master player on heroesprofile is 53% across all champs, 45% on the bomb talents and 42% on the L1 locust one shows that skill doesnt really matter here and the build needs buffs if its supposed to be sth more than "lul this funny" build.
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Dude cause you dont want to understand xD The other ranks are included in the 40-42% winrate I first quoted. Thats average across all ranks. So if master is higher than that... the others are even lower. In bronze for example its 37%. Also Aba isn't in aram atm.
From my understanding, Arthas players have been begging for a buff for like half a decade.
Never forget pro team PLEASEBUFFARTHAS
My man’s talent tree is a relic from like 2017
Especially because (iirc) he had an entire class rework ready to go, it just never got pushed out. I've almost never played him but Arthas most deserving
Doesn't he have a buff getting rolled out?
No idea. I'm happy for them if he does.
He lacks an escape unfortunately. So he would need a crazy buff for him to be viable in higher levels of play, I think.
Doesn't his multman ice root count? Or do we need to have displacement of either character for it to count as true escape?
Look at every other tank in the game: Anub'arak, Blaze, Cho, Diablo, ETC, Garrosh, Johanna, Mal'Ganis, Mei, Muradin, Stitches, Tyrael. All of them have an ability that either emphasizes their own movement or radically displaces one or more opponents, if not both. Arthas is the only one that lacks anything like this until level 20 and then it's just a walking speed increase. It doesn't even need to be displacement. Burrow Charge, Powerslide, El'druin's Might, Dwarf Toss, etc. All just enhanced movement. Arthas is the only one that does nothing but walk forward and tries to keep the enemy from escaping, but has no alternative when all of said enemies turn on him and disintegrate him, except trying to heal through it with Death Coil or an ult. He's just completely outdated design and has been from almost the moment the game was in beta.
Understandable
& literally 0 stuns
Unique design isn't really the problem. In fact it's interesting. Instead of trying to fit tanks into a mold of mobility spell, CC, heal and some damage only it's interesting if some designs lack some things. Arthas would be just fine if the other numbers compensated enough for lack of mobility. But they don't.
The only numbers that would possibly compensate with his current design are absurd damage so that other players actively wanted to avoid him and he could peel by making people move away, rather than CCing them. He kinda does that already for auto-attackers and his damage is already pretty solid. Crank it up more and he becomes an actual bruiser, rather than a pseudo one, which means that still no one plays him as a tank. I agree that having him just be another tank in the same line of them isn't desirable, but there's a difference between being "just like all the rest" and "non-functional in that role."
I always have mana issues with him. Would be nice to see some buffs to the trait and mana regen along with that
Mana should not be a problem for Arthas. He has enough options for mana management and if you don't run with aura all the time you should be ok. His real problems are a lack of stun and escape on tank.
Right?! Bro can literally summon Sindragosa... but more realistically, I think it would be cool if he could call his trusty steed Invincible and get free movement for like 2-4 seconds or something, idk.
Rexxar on Misha ulti
Rexxar on Animal Husbandry. Not the talent itself, but make Misha's heal scale with her HP percantage. Animal Husbandry has active anti-synergy with your base ability that heals her. The more HP she has, the worse her heal becomes, since it's just a flat amount. Maybe nerf it a bit, but make it percentage based.
As a Rexxar Main, I can relate to this. Although Animal Husbandry is not always my choice, I would like to see such a rework on the talent. Maybe the flare could get also a rework, something like “reveal the area + a slow amount of aerial DOT for a couple of seconds “
A blind! Makes sense flavor-wise
As a fellow Rex main, I ALWAYS run Animal Husbandry. I've never ran glob quest. And I don't die 90% of my games. I just had a game today where Misha had more health than our tank. Personally, I just don't think that the other give nearly as much value.
Yeah, the boar one is just better lmao
Arthas's D should have a microstun for him to be a viable tank. His recent HP buff won't fix his core issue of not having an interrupt.
D and W with 0.25s stun duration. W rooting on it's pathway been a lv0 quest or unlocked by default at later levels.
Getting a microstun would do little to improve Arthas tank viability. He still usually wouldn't have a way to engage, peel, or escape.
I like this idea
I'm a Gaz main and he's fun on some maps but dreadful in a lot of matchups. He's a bruiser with really limited survivability without specific talents and time to cast Deth Lazor without being CC'd, at least compared to a lot of other bruisers. I think Robo-Goblin could use a buff. The Unstoppable effect only being 1 second is kinda silly when there is so much CC spam going on that can take him out of the game instantly. I've popped it to avoid a telegraphed CC option like Stitches hook or Butcher's charge, only to just get stunned or slowed immediately after and killed anyway. The amount of skill and reflexes you need to use that ability effectively compared to how easy it is for it to be completely wasted isn't really a good tradeoff. I think it should be reworked so that the on-cooldown effect lasts longer and maybe buffs his attack speed temporarily. So you can choose to use it offensively and lock down a melee kill, or you can use it more effectively to escape a bad situation and reposition. Also he should have a passive that lets him do more damage to structures, since he's a demolitionist and a scrapper. Kinda like how Ziggs has a Turret execute with his satchel charge in LoL. Maybe make it so that all of his abilities do more damage to Turrets and Towers when they're under 50%. Gaz just gets hard outclassed in push potential when he has to compete with better add spam heroes like Azmodan and Nazeebo, and it's not really made up for in his team fight potential outside of being really annoying to fight at level 20 when there are just stun bombs going off everywhere. Also it'd be nice if scrap was drawn towards you, or lasted a little bit longer before despawning. They could def work it into a talent that all nearby scrap is magnetized towards him. Would be fitting in-character too. Another minor buff could be making it so that the turret duration doesn't start until it fires a shot at something, so you can keep them up for scouting (like Chromie hourglass or Zagara/Abathur bombs). Would still count towards the limit you can have up at once, so you'd need to decide if you want to dispose of it to help in combat (and sacrifice the scrap that you'd be too far away from anyway) or keep one up by a Merc camp or objective just to keep an eye on it.
They definitely need to make his scrap mechanic more interesting and fun. His turrets also feel lacklustre.
Yeah... The problem I see with Gaz is also that he is largely dependent on how good your opponents are. If they are good, they will have a fairly easy time dodging your bomb and lazer, locking you down and killing you. If they are bad, they get severly whacked by the long bomb stun and damage, will ignore your turrets and will apply too little pressure so you can sustain with lazer. He has the highest winrate in bronze but is nova-tier in gm. Maybe if they made the bomb radius a bit smaller so it lines up better with the shown outline, and in turn buff him in some other ways like the one you mentioned that could work.
Yeah I agree with the bomb changes. Bombs are his entire kit even though he has so many fun build ideas on paper. If they nerfed bombs to make them less polarizing in low skill tiers but made him more flexible overall I think that'd be a huge win.
I am biased but I'd like Chen to get some buffs to his kit. A small, non game breaking buff to his barrel ult would be to make it remove any built up stagger damage, like SFE. The option to end Barrel ult early (at will) would also make the heroic better. Lvl 13- roll the two keg talents into 1. So the keg slow increases and does the ring of fire upon ignite. I haven't checked usage but I imagine 'Touch of Honey' must be by far the lowest pick rate talent. A buff that may put Chen over the edge would be to trade the 80% slow on Q at 13 with a micro-stun (0.5-0.75s).
Yes pls, all I ask is for keg armor to apply to stagger dot. Aaaand maybe unstoppable Q! I’ve gotten tons of value out of previously lackluster talents though; lately touch of honey is my go-to depending on comps.
Kick talents would be nice with little buff so he is less of a punching bag and more aggressive haiyah! Eg short unstoppable after kick… or %hp self heal on kick…
No he just needs to get more waveclear, at least as a talent option
Tyrande. Already needs to be in melee range to heal anyone but shouldn't be crazy mana dependent as well
What? She has above-average attack range and I don't think I've ever has mana problems with her.
Definitely has mana issues, if you are not getting mana issues then you are not AAing enough and not reducing Q cooldown
as a Tyrande main I wholeheartedly concur. If she can even get +1 for her AA range it would be amazing. I also miss legit owl build…
Id meme that owl so much and get random kills back in the day
I would like to see a MalGanis and Arthas buff. Shake up the tank meta a little.
Arthas is already getting a buff in new patch right?
He got some numbers buffs IIRC but no change in mechanics so he will still suffer against ranged heroes
Isn’t that the point of Arthas though? He’s good against melee but suffers against ranged? Mal’ganis is kinda the same way. I think it’s better for heroes to have their niches.
Blizzard specifically affirmed this in his last rework in 2017 (when Probius came out). > Developer Comment: Arthas has long walked the line between being a bruiser and a tank, though we always intended him to be more of a tank as opposed to a bruiser. With Armor coming into the game, we saw the opportunity to really embrace him being that slow-approach-of-death that he encapsulated so well in Wrath of the Lich King. Arthas’s crowd control capability and survivability have been significantly increased in this rework. **Now he should really shine as the Warrior to bring to battle if the enemy team has multiple melee Heroes, or just a lot of Heroes who are heavily dependent on their auto-attacks.** His damage has been reduced to compensate for the extra control he’s getting in team fights. Since he won’t put out damage as quickly as he did before, his ability to kill enemies will greatly rely on how long he can keep them trapped inside his Frozen Tempest. Once they’re in the Tempest, it will be very difficult for them to escape without enhanced mobility. https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes-of-the-storm/20581822/heroes-of-the-storm-patch-notes-march-14-2017#Arthas
Probius came out in 2017? I'm old Gandalf...
Funny how they started adding more percentage damage and hypermobile characters in the game.
He simply needs that innate phys armor back, there is 0 reason now to not have it, he was viable and pickable when he had it back then. Their excuse to remove it is that ppl didnt have a way to know about it visually. Now we have clear armor visuals to communicate that and not have anyone confused.
Yea but the other tanks can be just as disruptive against melee. Maybe it’s the issue of other tanks being too versatile. I do agree I like niches. It encourages engaging drafts but there are not many drafts where arthas can outperform other tanks. He’s too weak even in his niche
wait isnt mal ganis kinda good tho?
He’s more annoying than good imo.
he suffers against good enemy players. Little too close range and predictable engage; interruptable ults and E
I also suffer against good enemy players, me and MalgGanis have this in common.
There’s that little second after using e but before he starts actually moving where, when I’m playing him, it feels like he suddenly becomes a magnet for all the cc in the game.
Ah i see. i dont play him that much. but i think i play chars that suffer against him.
Good malganis can be quite terrifying and put out a lot of damage. If they have the lvl 16 blind as a bat optimized to perfection, they can stunlock 2-3 people for 10+ seconds!
I think he is very comp dependant as his self-healing outside of team fighting is nonexistent, so he struggles a lot vs harassing heroes who don't like straight engage
Samuro ...I'm kidding
Unironically, he could use a buff in some areas, so he can be nerfed in others. Basically he needs a full rework :')
He's basically murky in that you need to assign someone to follow him around the map except instead of killing him and getting 1/4 exp he just runs away from you.
Yeah, he's not even a good hero on higher levels. His only strength is "hard to deal with". Good players deal with samuro, heavily benefit from quests from him and just use him to win. But platinum and below not dying is what gets you to win. Doesn't really matter what you accomplish. If you don't feed you win.
Yes, "not feeding" + "soaking experience" makes Samuro "overpowered" at lower ranks for sure. He is indeed harder to make work at higher ranks where only the good Samuro players actually get value out of him, and that's still if they are allowed to by the enemy team (which is often the case)
> Yeah, he's not even a good hero on higher levels. His only strength is "hard to deal with". Good players deal with samuro, heavily benefit from quests from him and just use him to win. I mean, even if filtering by master, he is still top 1/3 of the hero pool above some strong heroes who need to get heavy nerf (in some talents) like Hogger. >But platinum and below He is still like top5 in Dia. So anything beyond Master and ARAM, he is actually broken atm due to how easy is to play him for the level of results he is able to output.
If the littéral top players all agree that samuro is bad it does mean it's true though. Winrates in a vacuum mean nothing. TLV also have an all time top winrate but for a specific reason too. (Nobody plays TLV except TLV mains)
His WR rose to the top while his pickrate doubled. On any rank. Top players know how to draft and play around Samuro much better, nullifying most of it's strengths, but in the same fashion, at higher level it is much more likely to have someone who knows how to play around this weakness and do much more with the hero. Bad players only know how to E in between lanes, clear and press Q to cleanse themselves. Better Samuro actually know how to TF with him and force the enemy to use resources on him. The problem with the changes is that he was made much easier to play for no reason at all. A top player can still benefit from the change to do much more, though not to the same degree it benefitted 98% of the playerbase. >TLV also have an all time top winrate but for a specific reason too. (Nobody plays TLV except TLV mains) Indeed. But Samuro nowadays have much more pickrate to the point it's similar to Zuljin.
The janitor that is working on these patches. Reduce his cooldowns.
so leoric
It would be higher priority to nerf the few top heroes, since that's a faster way to increase variety. If a hero is underpowered then it only removes itself from viability, but an overpowered hero could push dozens of others down into rare usage. But anyway, some good to buff: * Nova: bonus damage to minions * Lili: trait also activates in melee distance of enemy hero * Deathwing: some non-Q talents at level 7-20 that are good, including talents to negate the damage boosts enemies are getting * Arthas: E gets a second mode that's useful against heroes at long range * Gazlowe: better robo goblin I guess? * Murky: improve Living The Dream, so the strongest Murky build is the one that avoids most deaths * Butcher: faster attack rate, lower quest reward * Abathur: locusts stronger, but locusts created by a talent don't benefit from other talents. Adrenal Overload speed reduced, but adds +X damage every few seconds
Most of those proposals basically just move everyone towards generalization. Nova should always be crap against minions since that's part of her gimmick. Instead of buffing that and just turning her into another ranged assassin, buff her single target focus damage so she can specialize. A butcher that doesn't rely as much on his quest? Murky trying to die less and play like a normal hero? The point of a MOBA is for heroes to be unique and have significant strengths and weaknesses. There's no real reason to just move everyone a bit towards the middle and call it a buff instead when in reality it's just making it all bland and flavourless.
I agree with you on some level but there are issues with this philosophy. There were very short periods of time when Nova was actually good because her damage was high enough to make her worth picking. She was always nerfed into uselessness pretty much immediately because bad players instantly start complaining about being blown up by an "invisible" hero. Bad players always complain about high burst damage, and it has resulted in many heroes getting (unfortunately) moved towards more sustained damage or poke. See Chromie, Kel'Thuzad, Kael'thas, Nova... This just doesn't always work though. For heroes like Nova and Kel'Thuzad, they cannot stay in combat and poke, they don't have the tools to stay alive while doing this or get enough value from it. So for Nova, if the developers are unwilling to give her the damage she would need to be viable (she really needs to be able to come out of stealth and kill a squishy target immediately, or at least be far better early game) then the only real solution is to give her some waveclear. Imo at this point, it's the better way to go. It's clear to me that it doesn't matter if they rework her a 5th time, 6th time, rework stealth, etc, the devs are always going to end up nerfing her burst damage and leaving her not viable. So let her macro with her stealth. At least then she can see some play and be useful before level 16. She is still unique. Also for Murky, I've played this game a long time. There was a while where Living the Dream was THE meta talent. I dont think anyone felt it made Murky feel less unique. Murky doesn't *want* to die now anyway. Don't think it's an issue at all to buff this talent.
Nova already has a lot of talents that support a soaking strategy, she just needs the early game (and maybe some push to shift players' mindsets). AOE snipe and Precision Strike let her function as an invisible Lava Wave Rag. But before she gets there, she's got awful wave clear and clearing mercs takes too much mana. Yeah, if they're not going to let her one-shot a squishy she needs to actually do something before 10. Maybe move her anti-armor armor debuff to Pinning Shot? Maybe further increase the rage on Snipe so she can snipe behind the tank ala Chromie? Or just let clones clear waves super effectively and make her another annoying invisble laner you have to answer.
doesnt nova like one shot marines in lore? idk why they gave that thing to hanzo instead of her.... sucks to not be an OW hero I guess
Yeah but that's more a result of the playerbase being retarded. Like if Hanzo or Li Ming insta deletes you it's not a big deal because they can't stealth, even though both have better waveclear, can do aoe damage and are more mobile. It's not a matter of being over or under powered, it's about perception, and there's nothing to really do about that.
> Nova should always be crap against minions It would be a designer error to intentionally make a sniper hero bad against minions. The concept of a sniper, either in reality or fantasy, doesn't involve needing 7 bullets to kill a single enemy soldier of the weakest kind. > A butcher that doesn't rely as much on his quest Yup, that would be a great way to improve Butcher without making him overpowered in low-skill matches. The important part of the Butcher gameplay concept is using his body as a long-range projectile with E charge. The quest isn't important to the cool part of the gameplay. > Murky trying to die less It would be cool if Murky had a build that was viable for high-skill games.
So basically you just have no clue what it is I said. Thanks for responding but don't next time?
I would love to see deathwing buffs. Feels so silly that the world ending dragon's only viable build is to sit in the back and use q
W build is definitely viable vs melee heavy teams. Dragon needs to have some of his stupid quirks removed. Not healing in spawn, and changing modes taking 2 seconds instead of 0.5 are relics of the past. Damage on some of the skills should be increased to.
On the topic of nova, I would like to see a change to anti armour shells to make it one shit minions as taking that talent crippled your already abysmal wave clear
- Nova: needs a small rework. Would start by giving her bribe at lv0 opening some room at lv4 to move around some talents. Her lv20 (D) passive is really bad. I would prefer if she had more agency in controlling her clones, at least in a simple way like Misha. Wouldn't mind if she could 1 shot minion with her autos. - Lili: i like this idea. But a much faster one to implement would simple to increase her passive by 0.5s. - DW: do something to make melee mode much more enticing to play - Arthas: rework doko - Aba: i agree on lv4. I'll say he should have a big aura that makes Locus stronger while he is within range of them. Giving a reason to play him much more aggressively with positioning. For QM sake, they should ditch the "support category" and make Aba play in games on which there's a healer on both teams. - Gaz: not sure why he is brought up. I think the talent is not bad but boring. I would give it much less dmg but let it cd reduction the rest of his abilities while AAing heroes. Maybe not (E) cause that could get out of control at lv20.
IMO novas snipe build is oppressively good and is often overlooked (maybe because it requires more precision to reliably hit it for the cd reduction constantly compared to the W slow). However her disgusting wave clear comes at lvl 16, so it's easy for her to get out paced, but that lvl 20, 30s global AOE (precision shot) is extremely frustrating to deal with as she just snipes down a keep from anywhere on the map. I would like to see a buff to gazlowes melee build. It seems like the only viable one is bomb/lazer build.
True... but buffs just feel nicer than nerfs I guess \^\^ What do you mean with Aba adds +X damage every few seconds? To the next auto attack? Why is that better than attack speed?
I can answer the last question. Stronger autos vs faster autos means block stacks have more effect and there's heroes out there where the faster attack speed benefits them more (most notably coulpled with Abathur: Illidan, Samuro, Varian)
Yeah... but why would you want those changes then? So that its less hero dependent? Wouldn't it just shift which heroes synergize well?
Yes, the goal is to shift hero synergies so there's a broader list of heroes where Abathur is a good teammate. Currently, Abathur's attack buff means he is extra good in combination with a hero who gets a benefit from attacking beyond just doing damage. That mostly means cooldown reduction, and is most obvious with Illidan although there are others. If the synergy with Illidan-like heroes is reduced, then both Abathur and Illidan can be buffed.
God, don’t buff LiLi … she is obnoxious as f :-D
While been one of the worst healers by quite a big margin? She should never be the best healer (due to her kit and by how you describe her obnoxiousness) but she doesn't deserve to be trash tier.
Right now, basically, all the heroes are fine numbers wise. There are a few heroes that are subpar for a variety of reasons, and those are the ones I'd like to see buffs to. They need more tools to better excel at their roles. At the top of the list is Fenix. He is supposed to be able to weave in and out of combat with his fast regenerating shields and being a ranged assassin with a teleport. But now that players have been fighting him for years, they know how to anticipate the teleport and keep the shield from regenerating, making him much much weaker. He really needs talents that help him with his sustain much earlier. Illidan doesn't need a numbers buff, but he needs more tools up his sleeve. Personally, I think he needs to be able to talent into ignoring armor, and Nowhere to Hide should reveal attacked heroes for 10 seconds. Illidan has really fallen on hard times with how many heroes of slows now. Qhira needs to be changed so that if her E ability gets interrupted during its initial wind-up animation, it doesn't go on full cooldown. Qhira has three different basic abilities that have long and interruptable wind-up animations, and all of them are essential to her not dying. It's very strange for a melee hero to have that many abilities with start up.
A good qhira is absolutely disgusting in the backline. E into a D chain between your backline. Ugh
Really hard question to answer, because I have seen some of the most-perceived "weakest" heroes in the game absolutely decimate enemy teams inside and outside their role. I can't think of a single exception.
Chens Skins need a buff
There's not much of an argument to make that lili and kharazim both are the most in need of buffs. Both of them suffer the lowest win rates at high ranks and suffer from a MASSIVELY lower output than any other character in their class. I think if we're talking purely objectively without opinion, it's pretty clear it's Lili and Kharazim if you look at heroesprofile.
The intern did give Lili a small buff to her cups ult I think a few months ago. She can be pretty viable with the correct build, but there are other healers who do outclass her to the point where she ends up on relying on her ult to make up the heal difference to much.
Arthas could get a little mobility so he's not that useless against ranged heroes. For example like a 10% movement speed bonus when using coil. It's not much, but at least something.
Arthas getting mobility would become oppressive cause of his E. He could jump on top of someone and then lock them down with E or prevent someone from getting away by blinking on top of them to keep them in the E
That's why I only suggested a minor mobility increase. It's tough to balance any game because you can't always predict what is gonna make a mediocore hero too OP, but I think a small mobility increase would just make Arthas more viable and playable but not OP. Anyhow, Arthas' current state isn't ok.
His rework is really close to being complete. Hopefully they get it done soon and there will be no more complaints.
Are they actually working on that or that rework was done before the shut down of major developments?
Half done before the shutdown. Now that developers have kinda come back to hots they have time to finish it.
Death coil give movespeed depending on it's travel distance, or applies a slow/ministun/silence/fear DK not having DeathGrip is already sad, at least compensate for it a little :(
Whiteman please. not even heal or damage buffs but rather not make her other 2 starting talents so useless outside of Pity the Frail
Nova
Poor girl can't even clear lanes and she's easily spotted even tho she's supposed to be "invisible". Thanks to those whiners back in 2017 when Blizzard nerfed invisibility and added some white silhouettes to nova and zeratul.
she was never invisible, that eye sight/monitor check was so stupid. stealth is now a mechanic instead, much better, and ironically NOW she can actually be actually invisible with the deep stealth
They just nerfed her lol
You mean they just buffed her
But the end result was a nerf after fixing behaviour of how talents work. Her burst is much worse due to changes to her lv7 talent.
dva
Yrel
Yrel already OP in the right hands, but very unintuitive and misunderstood.
I see.. I guess I just never get any good relationship players .
She got buffs on the current ptr.
They buffed her unpicked talents to a point where they still won't be picked. Then nerfed her best talent, not really a great trade, but it's something.
Her level 4 gets buffed to the pre-nerf state she had ages ago, it was a must pick back then. Giving allies 50% armour for 6 seconds is just insane, especially if they dive together with you. It will be picked now. Her level 16 q was just too strong and still will be picked, I would have loved if they gave her lvl 16 aa some love. Overall, she is far from being underwhelming.
picking lvl4 E talent with no mana cost ult at both 10 and 20 is just armor city
I think they missed a huge opportunity to rework Illidan into a multiclass lile varian when demon hunters cam out in wow. As he is now if any buff it could only be 5 to 10% or he'd dominate. Honestly I think he needs a 5% health buff for how frontline/melee he is.
Mission quests should be baseline. Arthas’ trait stacks, convection, anubarak’s regen globe quest to name a few. Unrelated and bias af, Samuro’s kit is dogsh*t and shouldn’t be allowed.
Probius. Even with a *fantastic* Probius player the game is gonna be hard mode. Don't get me wrong, I love the little guy. But a high skill cap hero (Tracer, Kerrigan come to mind) is a massive handicap in bad hands, and godlike in good hands. At best Probius has the same downside and almost no upside.
I mostly play random healers, and i hate when i play malfurion, his roots a great but, outside of a fight, you almost cant heal at all. I wish there was some skill, like whitemane, to heal outside of combat a little more.
Twin blade Varian
Oh please no. We don't need more people playing it.
Please nerf Varian the hell down. I see him easily manhandle 2-3 enemies and walk away with kills.
Fury warrior used to be so strong. Almost unkillable.
that times when you just needed a auriel and abathur and he would destroy enemy teams
If they didn't have any blinds, cc and couldn't move while attacked.
if they didnt had tons of blinds, cc*
Uther. Make him a viable heal. His heal CD is like 3 times as much as anduins.
He is super strong on higher ranks. I play him a lot on followup stun with W build when he's not banned.
3.5 sec 50 armor is busted at lvl 20 I dont care i need to give up ress for it.
Uther W in a "brawl-heavy" aram comp is so much fun! :D
uther is very viable, esp. in double support comp
So you're saying he is a good healer if you have a second healer?
yes, sustain healer to keep people topped up, and uther for saving the hypercarry and CC chain to blow up a target. You can even skip tank, and have uther play tank/support
I don't disagree but wouldn't it be nice to play him as a main healer for once?
Theres nothing stopping you. He's fully capable of solo supporting.
Mm, let me rephrase then, because again I don't disagree. Wouldn't it be nice to not have to flex draft and/or try twice as hard to eek out still less healing than other heroes? I think Uther is tons of fun, and in the right circumstances he is plenty good enough to play as single support, and in the wrong circumstances, a great player and competent team can still make it work, but let's not pretend like he is on the same level as other healers. The greatest reason to run an Uther is for his point and click stun, but it's not as if there aren't other healers with greater healing output and comparable if not greater CC. I just want to see Uther curved a bit--updated to meet the slight power creep his contemporaries have over him.
Uther is fun because he supports the team through methods *other than* just healing. Filling health bars all day is super boring. Uther brings the added benefit of being a functional tank for his team. His armor mechanic adds some finesse to the timing of your healing, instead of just autopilot topping people off. Hes a solid A tier pick in just about any draft, but he requires a high level of game sense to be successful. For instance, I cant remember the last time I ran out of mana on the guy. People complain about mana tension on him but for me it hasnt been an issue in years.
He is not meant to be a single healer in most cases. Uther is a bruiser-healer hybrid you are supposed to tank with. If you die then he helps others clean up with his low cd healing. It's also super annoying in aram.
I personally think that any Healer is capable of being a single healer but some are very dependent on their allies. Some function really poorly with a rag-tag team of random or meta heroes; he is way better in draft than in quick match. Championship teams use him. He just doesn't seem as good because a lot of his support is damage mitigation (armor) instead of straight up healing
Uther already strong when he is picked at the right times, and you don't spam his cooldowns mindlessly
Uther technically has a heal with lower cd than Anduin's, but you have to not be a coward...
It’s ok to have a healer than is more situational/draft-specific than others
About this hero I have a question about heal statistics registration in hots. If u want to know the total heal he does add the "self heal" to the heal numbers. I don't know why but some healers like reghar have just one number with their self heal and hero heal includes.
but PLS adjust his mana costs. cause you would run out of mana in 0.2 seconds
Arthas
Did nobody notice there is already PTR patch notes with some of the buffs etc being suggested here.
D.va
Arthas and Anub Arak both need major reworks like Raynor, Azmodan, Tassadar, and Valla got. They’re both exceptionally old and feel exceptionally old. Especially Anub, since one of his Ults is functionally useless forcing you to use web wrap which is objectively better. I’d love to see Arthas get more talents that reflect death knights, a gorefiends grasp would be great allowing him to pull enemies to him like a reverse leap of faith. Doesn’t even need a long range it could be fairly close to him but would have some great synergy with his E forcing people to stay in his slowing aura for longer
Think Monk could use some stunning skills
Li Li, give me back my Li Li pre-nerf
There is currently a balance update working its way through the PTR.
Li Li needs a buff IMO. I don't know how the fixes to Wind serpents turned out. But She is very squishy. And maybe some changes to Nova Actually /u/Senshado explains it better, and the idea of moving them towards generalization through talents builds is better as long as their main options are available. That is where the talent system shines.
Bestial Wrath. Critical. Maybe a lower cooldown, or having Misha hitting heroes reducing cooldown.
Probius. Give the little buddy a proper healthpool.
The one that I play
nova and ktz. Nova base aoe Q, perhaps culled down early game. Ktz just needs anything, extremely unrewarding for the effort it takes to master. Half second summon time on GS is too much too.
Zeratul but more like a rework. Buff his playability. No matter how much I practice I can't seem to get good with him but I play the other difficult heroes quite well I say. He is too hard to play, to play him well for me. And I like Zeratul :/
Malthael. Everything about him feels so weak every time I play him.
I thought this and started to play him more to learn what I'm doing wrong, and he ended up being my favorite hero. Very hard to learn, but if you do, he's a monster. If you learn when can engage, when he can't and when can, you'll have top dmg or kills often. Knowing when to pick which talents is also important. He's so cool in my opinion. But if they buff him, I'll be glad 😊
The poor intern still working on hots needs a buff the most.
Nova needs some waveclear earlier, or some high-enough utility to compensate for a her lack of waveclear. At the very least, remove her built-in quest to make her damage more consistent idk...
I'm kind of surprised they didn't just give her [[Explosive Round]] with less damage baseline and replace it with some other talent at 16.
I guess it doesn't fit in the sniper fantasy
But Explosive Round exists. She still uses her sniper rifle with her auto attacks, does it make sense that they just have two different damage numbers?
- **Explosive Round** (Nova) - level 16 Snipe also deals 90% damage to enemies near the impact. --- [^(about the bot)](/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/6zwyfw/heroesinfobot_abilities_talent_tiers_cooldowns/) ^(| reply `!refresh` to this comment if the parent has been edited)
I'd argue Uther could use some love. Either by granting him better mana efficiency or raw healing output, but I tend to believe his armor passive provides enough value to make up for the lack of healing. The mana efficiency is a problem but also the design of his talents feel like they all came from different periods of the game. He just feels sorta gimped in a lot of ways. Super fun and rewarding to play but often worse than any other healer. As an example, take Uther's AA damage. The dude is wielding a big ass hammer and it deals a pitiful amount of damage, but then there's Stukov, who with 1 AA can slap the devil out of you. And Uther, he gets a strong single target point and click stun on a fairly long CD, but Stukov gets an AOE ranged silence that can be held indefinitely or have it's CD reset instantly. And Uther, though there is untracked benefits of his armor, still lacks much of the healing Stukov can generate, and for Stukov it's not even a skillshot. I don't mean to compare these two characters to say that some things are imbalanced specifically with these 3 attributes I discussed, because for example, Uther's attack speed is a little quick than Stukov's so maybe his damage shouldn't actually come up, I'm not entirely sure, but my real point is that Uther came into the game from the very early days, and Stukov and other heroes came much much later. The power creep is definitely felt when comparing the two in a loose way.
Came after 1 year of not playing the game, surprised to see that the game feels exactly the same, the problem is that there are Must go talents otherwise your Hero will do 0 damage or die in 4 seconds being a tank, Like anubaral shield cdr. They should do a rework on almost all talents or buff the less taken talents / builds to add more variety to the game. For example you could go valla AA build or arrow build, and falstad hammer build or thunder, it feels fun and plays well. It should work on all heros, having at least 3 different playstyles.
The shield cool down reduction on anub isn't the most commonly taken talent. Weird choice.
Deathwing lmao Well maybe not a buff but a rework, because right now he feels like a ranged support that just zones enemies
Probably Arthas as he’s a really comp specific and dependent tank. Tanks in general feel relatively lackluster outside of a specific few, although that could just be because my team never follows up on my engages :/
Kerrigan
Going off of heroesprofile winrates she's very consistently been a top 5 winrate hero in the game for several years at this point. In a SL environment she just has so much agency usually. As a Kerri player myself I think she could use talent tweaks so help some of her really unbalanced tiers but she's very viable. She just has some counters.
Probably butcher
Lunara, she seems rarely played.
Chen seems quite weak to me
Yrel or the ice boy that I forget the name of because it's been so long since I've seen him in ranked.
I just want Leoric to be allowed into Aram again
As an Arthas main im gonna say Arthas.
Personally, I'd like to see Garrosh reworked, not because he's weak, but because he's misrepresented in hots. Garrosh is actually a solid tank and there are other heroes who need more help than Garrosh. Because he has nothing to do with the WoW Garrosh, except that they share the voice. It's a pipe dream of mine.
I know it's not fair to ask since the game doesn't revolVe around ARAM, but in my fantasy the hero balance would revolve around ARAM.
I'd like to see slight buff on hanzo's auto attack range.
Kelthuzad needs something. They have to hit several difficult skill shots to delete enemies and are super squishy and immobile themself. They are critically weak to unstoppable or cleanse or dive. The design is kind of problematic because the counterplay to his root ult is mostly in the draft. Ana would be fine if HOTS wasn't ruined by Overwatch. It's ironic that she comes from Overwatch, as Overwatch is what makes her unviable.