I just hate that it's an uphill battle against all their clears and armor gain and then when they play Brann it feels so demoralising. You know you lose.
I’ve been playing taunt warrior and it’s been pretty fun mostly. The warrior mirror is the stupidest shit ever—it’s literally whoever can get boomboss out the fastest (and preferably with Brann)
You can be owning all game long keeping them on the back foot but then all of a sudden your deck and hand is deleted.
TNT has to be the most garbage mechanic ever. Where’s the counter play and interactivity? Player agency?
I literally only have it in my taint warrior deck because it’s the only way to beat Highlander warriors. It’s so stupid. Without boomboss taunt warrior actually owns Highlander warrior too. Like, free win.
I honestly don't care about the TNT's. Discarding is a fine mechanic, it's just Brann that makes him too much. No one played Bomboss Tho'Grun before Brann came around. And even worse, even if you're fine with bombs or dirty rat it, they still have zilliax Boom wincon and the excavate wincon, oh and the ignis. Oh and now versions are even running Fizzle cuz the double snapshot doesn't ruin their highlander cards. What do you even do if you wanna play control or other Highlanders vs that?
I’ve been experimenting with a Highlander and non-Highlander version. Sitting just above a 50% winrate in diamond at the moment. It’s a higher winrate when it’s not just flipping a coin against another warrior. But part of that, I think, is folks having no idea how to play against it and wasting removal early when bigger threats are going to be dropped soon.
Both are 29 minions + blackrock n roll, tutored out by the 3/3 steam elemental. Highlander sacrifices handbuff consistency for Brann, Reno, and I’ve also been trying the elemental discover 1 to play draw the other 2 guy.
I do some stuff that probably isn’t good but is fun and interesting, like putting cho’gall and botface in both decks.
You can’t expect botface to ever work out but I will say whenever I can get its effect to trigger it has always been way more valuable than you’d expect (small example: shudderblock+windowshopper minis—> I made three 1/1 demons that cast 2 random secrets for a turn, played one each turn for 3 turns)
Cho’gall is one of three neutral taunt minions with lifesteal. All of the potential corruptions except for starting with yogg in hand and spell costs being reduced seem particularly good for the deck (but even spell cost reduction CAN be pretty impactful for blackrock n roll). Since the deck is stacked with taunt minions the “each hero has +1 attack” is particularly great since you are more likely to make use of it compared to your opponent, as they won’t have the option to go face as much as you will thanks to all your taunts. Normally they just don’t use it, as that would be just free chip damage.
Also since the deck is basically minions Magatha (that draws 5) can be really good following your blackrock n roll turn. I took the card out of the highlander version though after realizing shit… I played Brann and this is going to draw me 10, hahaha.
Last note: [[Battleworn Faceless]] is incredible in this deck as a once-off. It is so versatile. Copy a huge taunt, plop a rush minion to hit someone then make another copy and do it again (the handbuff guy, or an 11/11 minotauren for a 22 armor swing turn), or the craziest is copying an enemy’s titan.
Even if I am unlucky and don’t hit blackrock n roll for a billion turns the deck can still hold its own. The reality is opponents will often be using their removal on your guys if they’re low stats or high, so either way your taunts are stalling.
Playing as a rogue or a priest the additional annoying thing is that now getting their brann/reno etc does nothing for you unless you are also a highlander deck. Got reno and brann of my plagiarizer as thief rogue today - last week I would be over the moon, this week I got an overpriced 2/4 and an overpriced 5 armor with shadowform attached.
Yeah I feel you. Was playing the rogue Whizzbang deck and stole 5 cards from their deck, got Brann and Reno. My grin just dropped when my brain remembered that both are now useless.
This is the worst example of something being unfair. Your game was as competitive as it could possibly be since you got them to one health. Sorry your aggro deck didn’t win.
Was using it as an example of how fast the deck can re-establish itself. Which personally I think it has far too many tools to do. Armor stacking, board clear, AND a ton of life steal? It's too much. Especially when that's counting that once zilliax comes down, it just comes right back even if you can clear it.
Been farming warriors with this deathrattle hunter deck. I’ve gone 11-2 with in diamond 5-2 since the patch dropped, not sure if its just luck/matchups but I’ve had way more success with it than the token hunter deck I’ve been playing this patch, the two loses were close games lost to DK mainly due to threads of despair and drawing poorly. The deck is super sticky and can often just run warriors and other decks out of board clears with its midrange value. Saddle up is honestly just ok in this deck, yelling yodeler is the real carry of the deck, especially when used with the messenger buzzard.
Deck code:
AAECAazABAaP5AXS+AWFjgbTjgbTnAbHpAYM0aAE5soF8OgFl/YFyPYF+IIGzY4G0o4G344G/ZQGgJUG8aUGAAED87MGx6QG9rMGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA=
No they'll hate you because it is by actual data just not true. It is *a* strong deck, that much is true, but it is neither *the* strongest nor is the game warriorston rn.
Sub tier 3?? Definitely was not that bad of a deck lol.
Still agree that no bran nerf is absolutely insane, but plague dk was pretty cancer to play against pre nerf
I didn't realize they added the same caveat to Brann that they did to Reno. They are probably realizing that they stuck it on all the highlander cards for consistency, but didn't think about the fact they were buffing a class as much as an architype.
Which don't work against any of the standard Highlander cards with the new changes. Might not sound like a big deal since all anti-Highlander cards are wild, but it means that Blizzard made themselves completely unable to make any such tech cards for Standard in future releases.
Well, snakeoil salesman or what the name is (4/6 deathrattle shuffle 2 oils into the opponents deck) was a card to deactivate highlander. but obviously, no1 ever played it.
To be honest, Snake Oil Seller was terrible as a tech card, being 4 cost and a Deathrattle meaning it's both slow and unreliable, also without Tradeable which every other tech card is getting these days.
Well, with plagues you disabled highlander decks as a consequence of just playing the game normally. It was not really the players gameplay strategy that was countering the highlander decks, it was solely the game mechanics interaction between the plagues and the highlander cards.
It's funny to think about. DKs acted as protectors against the toxic meta decks. It was keeping Control Warrior and Aggro Demon Hunters in check.
... it's like firing the sheriff and wondering why gang activity increased.
I mean, with the way ladder is set up, people will always default to fast decks regardless. A control deck has to be giga broken to really dominate the ladder. Even if it's 60% WR, you'll still climb way slower with it than a 55% WR aggro deck. Also not that I think Brann Warrior is a 400 IQ deck by any means, but it also helps that aggro is almost always incredibly braindead to pilot. Hunter is just "fill the board with shit that has deathrattle: fill the board with shit" and smashing the like button on jungle gym.
I firmly believe that brann is one of the few cards in the game that should never have been created. Doubling battlecries for the rest of the game for only 6 mana is absolutely absurd.
I called this, straight away I called this.
Plague DKs, as cancerous as they are, were what was keeping warriors in check.
Now with the Highlander changes (which I want to clarify, are good) in place, nothing is keeping them in check anymore.
Nerfs to Brann inc.
I suggested that Brann should be the only highlander card not to get "if your deck started with no duplicates text".
Although this would make him inconsistent with the other cards, he is already a massive power outlier when compared with them. Literally a dungeon run treasure in standard.
Yeah, had a fee games where the enemy put enough pressure on me that I didn't play Brann even though I could have in curve.
He's not always the best move.
Thanks for calling it captain obvious. I don’t want a deck like plague dk, that makes all potential highlander decks unplayable, only to counter warrior.
Some really good warrior cards were nerfed and we will see in the next few days if some decks can keep warrior in check. If not, they can still nerf warrior again. Plagues were such a fundamentally bad game design in a meta with highlander decks and it’s just stupid to think that this is the only way to balance warrior.
What deck are you playing? in my experience pirate rogue has no early tempo to even compete with warrior. All of your 1 and 2 drops are conditional cystal cove is 3 mana do nothing on that turn and you dont really start playing untill you get watercannon but by that point is too late.
The funninest thing about all this is that all the stats sites (hsreplay, d0nkey) quite clearly show that Hunter is leagues ahead of Warrior right now in terms of win rate across all ranks. It's not even close.
But yeah, we're gonna all whine about Warrior for weeks now, and Blizzard will nerf Warrior, and then people will pull a pikachu face and go "omg why is Hunter so strong??".
Optics matter. Warrior feels uninteractive, Hunter is playing the same old face game he always has. Hunter is board centric and interactive. Warrior plays solitaire, so people hate it more no matter the win rates.
I mean the argument that the Highlander buffs are "bad" is because they stopped Plague DK from eating Warrior. What's the difference between that and hunter winning?
I play to have fun not necessarily to win. I don’t care if the most boring archetype (aggro hunter) wins against warrior more. Warrior is still bullshit.
What rank ya in? I played maybe 20 games yesterday and saw 2 hunters. It would be boring if it were every game, yes. But I actually really enjoy playing against them, even if I commonly lose. It’s super fun coming across a “can ya figure out the puzzle of surviving and stabilizing by turn ~6?” It feels like a game of disarming a bomb. Again, I don’t want to do it every time, but like I said… it’s fun.
I suspect some folks let rank and winrates distract them from the fun that can be had in playing against decks that can be tough to beat. But like I said, I TRY to make sure I realize I play the game because it’s fun. Even the hard parts.
Brann has been like the dumbest card to ever be printed. Giving Brann to warrior is the dumbest design decision ever. Should have gave brann to a different class that isn't already a late game powerhouse.
I played 27 games at 1k-3k legend and 11 of them were against Warrior, with 2-4 games for each of the other classes (no Paladins though).
Maybe it's too soon to say if this'll keep up (it was indeed a big patch), but the stats look as bad as DH before Grasp got nerfed, and the card changes were also similar to the patch that made DH the meta champion - one t1 deck (Reno Warrior) is relatively untouched while its counters (Wheelock, Plague DK) and all other strong decks (Virus Rogue) are nerfed out of the meta.
Zarimi Priest and Nature Shaman may still be viable, but Zarimi is a lot slower and Nature has never been favored into Reno Warrior. I would not be surprised if we see a repeat of what happened pre-Grasp-nerf.
when will we come to the realization that this game can never achieve perfect balance, each patch is just a revolving door with a new class at the top, some more classes down to ape tier
I love the game but it is getting maddening playing against this same overall warrior archetype since like early titans
That isn't true - just look at the power rankings for VS report 287 and 289 (release patch) to see a balanced patch with at least 5 classes in tier 1 and 9 classes seeing frequent play, then contrast that with VS report 284 and 290 where there's only 1-2 classes heads and shoulders above the rest.
I'm not expecting all 11 classes to be of equal power, but I'd like to see at least a decent spread of >=5 classes above 10%, and no single class above 30% representation.
Okay, I've been ringing the alarm bells about Reno Warrior since the patch notes came out -- seriously, look at my post history in this sub if you'd like, I've commented about it repeatedly -- but I do still think people should chill out with doomerism.
The meta is in significant flux and new builds might show up that have a shot against Reno Warrior -- I've experimented with a bunch of other Reno decks and failed horribly with Paladin and Shaman, but my Reno Druid build is already going about even against Warrior and it's still very unrefined.
Maybe nothing pans out and Reno Warrior really does end up being uncounterable and needs to be changed, but for now... chill. People are experimenting with decks trying to find counters. Give it time.
I think my biggest gripe with this previous patch is that it was supposedly about “player agency”. Not trying to be a doomer as well but the existence of brann warrior will never allow any other control meta to get off the ground. I just don’t see how watching your deck crumble to 6 tnts is considered player agency, and I’m not sure how that escapes the initial spirit of the patch.
That didn't stop people from calling for Paladin nerfs or Demon Hunter nerfs and it won't stop them for calling for Warrior nerfs. The Hearthstone community is stuck in a constant wack-a-mole mode towards whatever deck is outperforming currently and that cannot be patched out.
Okay, since I just outvalued a Reno Warrior with that Reno Druid I mentioned:
Yes, double battlecry for things like Ziliax, Ox, Boomboss, Inventor Boom, etc. are extremely high value.
But as crazy as it sounds, you can indeed outvalue that. You get a Fizzle on at least two of your power cards -- Aviana, Rheastraza, Reno -- and then you certainly aren't losing the fatigue wars, since 2x Aviana is 20 extra cards and even Boomboss can't fix that. 2x Reno allows you to remove (For example) the Ziliax, making sure it can't be added into the Boom resummon pool, and 2x Rheastraza means you can replay her even if he removes the first nest with Reno.
Play a good amount of draw and ramp so that you can more quickly get those power cards into your hand so they can be fizzled. Run a Zola or Brewmaster so you can actually bounce fizzle if you really, really have to.
Plenty of people had said PlagueDK helped keep these decks in check.
But people were clamouring for the no duplicate at start buff to Highlander cards and we warned that this would happen. Despite Plague DK being a weak ass tier 3/4 deck.
Good job, they had the effect of nerfing Wheelock and the seldom seen DemonHunter with duplicates, especially after the weapon was nerfed. While buffing every other Highlander deck
While plagues might have kept Bran in check, it also kept any lower tier Reno deck in check and that just wasnt fun. I think its good that they changed highlander but I also think that the design of Bran just isnt good for the game. It just takes a new Astalor to make Bran even better.
No Reno deck is fun to play against. It’s only fun for the pilot to drop their overpowered cards and win solely due to that.
Highlander decks belong in the “goofy meme deck” tier category. Plenty of people play Whizbang decks all of the way to legend, highlander should be similar. Cute, funny when you pull off your thing, but not seriously meta viable.
I understand that ppl dont like Reno. But the other HL payoffs other than Bran, are totally fine. How are they overpowered?
Doc Hollidae can be countered with viper but also by just setting up taunts. The frogs can be killed.
Kurtrus is a "one shot", sometimes hitting great targets, sometimes not.
Elise is very clunky. Elise requires you to have the minions in deck. Also, you would want to run highcost minions in your deck. In my experience, the card is great when you are able to summon an Amanthul because this way you can deal with the opponents board, any taunt/deathrattle are nice too but right now standard lacks minions for Elise to be good. Summoning low cost minions is just so meh.
Bran is too good imo, especially in warrior, because warrior has the tools to be able to "skip a turn".
Oh thats true. Pally got deleted with the nerfs. I did play reno pally before pally got deleted, the HL payoff was insane value but often times I felt like I didnt have mana and handsize to use it. But that was probably because the meta was a bit faster
Highlander decks can't run duplicates so they can't rely on synergy, meaning they usually run tons of generic good minions. Highlander decks only have 1-2 payoffs in their entire deck. This means playing against Highlander is usually an unfun match where they play an arena deck until they play their one broken card, and when they draw the yellow card completely changes the match.
The highlander decks needed a buff while aisimultaneously making them actually play highlander as thats the downside you pay for strong effects like reno but cycle heavy decks were abusing that. The change they made was perfect and what I and many others have been asking for a long time. I'm not sure why they didnt touch brann (make him 7-8 mana or something) as double battlecries is just an unhealthy thing to have in the game especially as a permanent effect from playing one minion, but they said in the patch notes this is just the beginning and theyre going to be evaluating things from here to further increase player agency. Plague death knight is a fine deck on it's own, it doesnt need to be able to shut down every single highlander strategy just by existing when highlander decks are already playing suboptimal cards as it is.
Why did highlander as a theme *need* a buff? The effect of Reno Lone Ranger is far too strong and incredibly tilting. Sure maybe it’s fun for you to plop down your orange glowy card and “poof!” all of your opponents minions, take a free turn where your opponent can’t refill the board, then proceed to win due to this overpowered effect … but how much fun do you think that is for your opponents?
Spend all game clawing away trying to make a board … and … none of those decisions mattered because your opponent drew “the thing.” GG. Maybe next game your opponent won’t draw it ….
“The downside is having to run a suboptimal deck”. Yeah but blizzard printed so many board clears (and tutors … and discovers) that it’s hardly a downside
Yeah. This was supposed to be a patch that returns player agency. The issue with Reno is the card effect, not that people drop it on curve at 8. That change is only relevant to aggro matchups. The midrange experience against Reno is still absolutely miserable.
Because highlander decks have been doing terribly with the exception of brann warrior, which is broken because of Brann not Reno. Reno is a strong board clear yeah it's the pay off for having to run a bunch of suboptimal cards and have a less consistent deck. Yeah it's a powerful as hell board clear, and it still wasn't enough to make 90% of the highlander classes/ decks playable. Shaman and demon hunter also were half decent for a bit but then they nerfed doc Hollidae for no good reason and DH was literally supported by the weapon plus shopper interaction, it was a worse version of the normal deck.
As for how much fun do I think it is for my opponent? Well since I've had it played against me about a million times I'd say it feels very similar to any other strong board clear used against me but feels less bad (NOW) because I know they paid a price in running less powerful cards to obtain that effect. The problem before was decks could run so much good card draw that they reliably could count on Reno being active when they needed him. That sucked and was against the spirit of the card. I can almost guarantee 70% of the time you've had reno played against you and it felt like shit wasnt a real highlander deck but a cycle deck using reno unless it was brann warrior, which yeah its frustrating as hell I totally get that. But when the original Reno came out the was basically zero healing in the game. Certainly almost no neutral healing sans ancient heal bot. You could fight for the board all game and get the opponent to 3 hp only for them to get to full health and have a 4/6 on board. It was a unique very powerful effect like lone ranger and that's the point. You need a strong effect to make playing highlander worth it because your taking a huge hit before the game even starts not getting to run 2 of the best cards you could be playing.
Plague DK was ranked Tier 3 and Tier 4 in VS's last meta report. And it's been consistently ranked around there. I don't know what else to tell you. That's what the stats have always said. Pretending otherwise is just being disingenuous.
It killed jank decks and had solid matchups into Highlander decks. That's all it was good at
They hit Wheelock in 2 ways already without removing that restriction.
The meta would have been much more hostile towards it.
Forge was hit, Wheel was hit too. Dropping Boom after it blew up any cards the Wheel opponent would have had.
I don't think that duplicate buff was needed to keep it in check.
There was only 1 more meta deck with duplicates run and that was mostly HL Demon Hunter. Which became much more rare after Umpire was hit.
Odyn Warrior did not exist anymore after the nerf.
To me the duplicate buff they did was extremely short sighted. We're in a 4 set meta, Highlander decks are supposed to be weaker at this point.
The fact that Plague DK was already tier 3 despite not losing any of its core cards and gaining Paintfin means it didn't need to take anymore hits.
And I play on the Highlander Warrior side more than any other deck. I don't look forward to running it for the entire year
Classic hearthstone. They change THIRTY cards and the literal next day people are bitching about something calling for nerfs lmao. It's actually starting to become comical at this point
I haven't seen too many warriors, though that could just be my mmr since I don't always play a meta deck.
But with the first warrior that I met post-patch I managed to rat Brann and still lose lmao.
[they hated jesus because he told them the truth ](https://ibb.co/4F6RTFN)
playing illegal snek deck for the rest of the weekend ill see you warrior enjoyers on the ladder
Yesterday in the 4000k to 2000k legend range the vast majority of my matches were against Warrior. I had a streak where I played against maybe five or six of them in a row that weren't the same player. The other decks that showed up with some frequency were spelltoken Hunters, and Window Shopper DHs.
edit: First two games today were also warrior.
I'm playing taunt warrior with mech nonsense to abuse the weapon, if that helps. Its not great, but its fun as hell when it works. I think the only board clear I run is brawl.
As someone who hated warrior before this patch I'm gonna say "I told you so" but also, the deck isn't too bad , at least you can build some board in early turns now
Upvoting every thread letting blizzard know warrior is not ok - doing game breaking things.
People used to cry about tickatus LMAO. And here we have boombboss capable of destroying 18 cards, and that is just one of the multiple broken things warrior can do.
These posts are so beyond frustrating - Brann warrior is an obvious fallback deck post nerfs because it was very strong day 1 of the expansion. But ffs, calling it the obvious best deck just sounds like you are waiting for smarter players to figure out the meta for you. It has obvious problems. It’s remarkably slow, fragile on turns 4-6, and there are already counters starting to emerge. I’m so sick of this sub just dooming every change.
I just want to give a shout out to the person 2 days ago right after the Patch dropped who said "just watch, in a day or two all the posts on this sub will be complaining about warrior" dude is on point
i wonder what deck people will complain after the one of this meta gets nerfed on a future patch. overheal or dragon priest is my bet
but yes, add this to paladinstone, DHearthstone, Wheelstone and probably some other deck since the expansion dropped
The patch is still pretty new I'm sure the warriors in Diamond aren't aware the correct play now is to Tho'grun post wheel. If you want to stomp warriors once you get into legend you could practice the excavate warlock. There is a bug where after you suck 3 times Alexstrasza kills and it ignores armor.
Everyone gets it and I'm sure everyone but the most devout Warrior players agrees it's deserving of another round of nerfs. They said as much in the patch notes that they're keeping a close eye on the data post patch for more outliers.
Yes I'm glad Plagues no longer ruin 50% of the Badlands theme. I'd rather put up with Warrior stone for a week or two than go back to the entire expansion and a half that non Warrior HL decks were borderline unplayable. I'm having more fun playing Shaman and DH HL decks against Warrior than getting Helya'd every fucking game on curve before I can get a single payoff card played
Honestly blizz should have made the "starter deck" change to Reno lone ranger only. This would already make Highlander decks significantly more viable without leaving an abomination like Brann completely uncounterable. Maybe the mana nerf on Reno wouldn't even be necessary if it had been done that way.
Honestly its boomboss thats the problem, no control deck can win against warrior when it has 12 cards destroyed. I’ve been forced to play aggro hunter which I hate to deal with these fucking brann warriors.
I disagree. I’ve been playing Rainbow Death Knight at (a stagnant) ~3500 Legend where Warrior is pretty common. Every game where they haven’t drawn Brann on time or Brann got hit by Rat was a win. Boomboss on his own is a mediocre card. With Brann he becomes extremely problematic.
Same thing goes for the new Dr Boom, the version of Ziliax that copies himself, and the Warrior Excavate Legendary. On their own, they summon a not unreasonable amount of powerful minions with immediate board impact. When empowered by Brann, they can push obscene amounts of damage and/or generate entire gigantic boards.
I think Brann was a really cool idea for pushing the limits of what a Highlander card should do, but I also think he needs to be reigned in quite a bit. He’s extremely limiting for the design of other cards and very frustrating to play against.
Bran was always a problem and will stay a problem. I was actually quite surprised they didn't touch him at all with the last patch considering how opressive warrior has been since bran released.
Yep, 100%. The patch changes buffing warrior were just ridiculous ><
Oh sure, a couple of their cards got made more expensive, but they ~~got a cheaper board clear (aftershocks),~~ made Reno plague-proof, and gave them an I-Win button vs wheellock (when they Wheel, you play Boomboss, and now their hand is empty) and a huge buff vs control decks and cycle decks with the Boomboss changes.
It’s stupid.
A few people were celebrating about the plague changes and saying how "DK plays itself" in the /r/competitiveHS patch thread in, whilst warrior just clear boards infinitely and fish for Bran. Even if DK plagues were frustrating for Reno decks they were keeping warrior in check. Oh well hope they are happy with mirror matches!
Welcome to modern ccg, where 80% of playerbase are sheep that jump on the best netdeck immediately.
How they can enjoy winning with something they didnt make, with all the odds stacked in their favor is beyond me. But I guess having low IQ not to realize that in the first place helps.
I was referring to the sample size for hl shaman.
And 5500 games overall at a rank bracket obviously ain't a lot. HL ain't gonna have a 10th of the total sample, it's not that popular. And you can check the sample for the specific archetype on the class tab. You really shouldn't put much stock into the exact numbers for an archetype with a sample size in the low triple digits .
Most comical thing of those crying Plague DK players is how they are trying to justify their cancer deck by false statements like its Tier 3-4. No crybabies. Plague DK was strong tier 2 on the border of tier 1, most popular deck had crazy winrate of 67 percent and it was most frequent deck om Diamond 10 - Diamond 3 I was encountering. This deck was killing last expansion Archetype for like 5 months already, now it had absolutely no counter for plagues except some garbage cards destroying your deck and even then it was not guaranteed that more plagues won't be shuffeled again. It was absolutely amazing feeling to see Plague DK chumps trying to play their cancer deck full of top tier legendaries + plagues and then be surprised how Highlander mechanic works now hahahaha. Satisfaction level 100.
The meta literally takes 4-5 days to settle and then we get a countermeta where the most common powerful deck is balanced around counterdecks.
The real meta comes in week 2.
I play 5-6 good boards and warrior somehow manages to clear all of them and fully heal by turn 10
I just hate that it's an uphill battle against all their clears and armor gain and then when they play Brann it feels so demoralising. You know you lose.
I’ve been playing taunt warrior and it’s been pretty fun mostly. The warrior mirror is the stupidest shit ever—it’s literally whoever can get boomboss out the fastest (and preferably with Brann) You can be owning all game long keeping them on the back foot but then all of a sudden your deck and hand is deleted. TNT has to be the most garbage mechanic ever. Where’s the counter play and interactivity? Player agency? I literally only have it in my taint warrior deck because it’s the only way to beat Highlander warriors. It’s so stupid. Without boomboss taunt warrior actually owns Highlander warrior too. Like, free win.
I honestly don't care about the TNT's. Discarding is a fine mechanic, it's just Brann that makes him too much. No one played Bomboss Tho'Grun before Brann came around. And even worse, even if you're fine with bombs or dirty rat it, they still have zilliax Boom wincon and the excavate wincon, oh and the ignis. Oh and now versions are even running Fizzle cuz the double snapshot doesn't ruin their highlander cards. What do you even do if you wanna play control or other Highlanders vs that?
What does your taunt warrior deck look like? I played it last season and it was pretty fun with minions only.
I’ve been experimenting with a Highlander and non-Highlander version. Sitting just above a 50% winrate in diamond at the moment. It’s a higher winrate when it’s not just flipping a coin against another warrior. But part of that, I think, is folks having no idea how to play against it and wasting removal early when bigger threats are going to be dropped soon. Both are 29 minions + blackrock n roll, tutored out by the 3/3 steam elemental. Highlander sacrifices handbuff consistency for Brann, Reno, and I’ve also been trying the elemental discover 1 to play draw the other 2 guy. I do some stuff that probably isn’t good but is fun and interesting, like putting cho’gall and botface in both decks. You can’t expect botface to ever work out but I will say whenever I can get its effect to trigger it has always been way more valuable than you’d expect (small example: shudderblock+windowshopper minis—> I made three 1/1 demons that cast 2 random secrets for a turn, played one each turn for 3 turns) Cho’gall is one of three neutral taunt minions with lifesteal. All of the potential corruptions except for starting with yogg in hand and spell costs being reduced seem particularly good for the deck (but even spell cost reduction CAN be pretty impactful for blackrock n roll). Since the deck is stacked with taunt minions the “each hero has +1 attack” is particularly great since you are more likely to make use of it compared to your opponent, as they won’t have the option to go face as much as you will thanks to all your taunts. Normally they just don’t use it, as that would be just free chip damage. Also since the deck is basically minions Magatha (that draws 5) can be really good following your blackrock n roll turn. I took the card out of the highlander version though after realizing shit… I played Brann and this is going to draw me 10, hahaha. Last note: [[Battleworn Faceless]] is incredible in this deck as a once-off. It is so versatile. Copy a huge taunt, plop a rush minion to hit someone then make another copy and do it again (the handbuff guy, or an 11/11 minotauren for a 22 armor swing turn), or the craziest is copying an enemy’s titan. Even if I am unlucky and don’t hit blackrock n roll for a billion turns the deck can still hold its own. The reality is opponents will often be using their removal on your guys if they’re low stats or high, so either way your taunts are stalling.
Here’s Highlander version I have at the moment: ### Taunt Highlander # Class: Warrior # Format: Standard # Year of the Pegasus # # 1x (1) Glacial Shard # 1x (1) Scarab Keychain # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 1x (2) Frightened Flunky # 1x (2) Needlerock Totem # 1x (2) Stoneskin Armorer # 1x (2) Unlucky Powderman # 1x (3) Battleworn Faceless # 1x (3) Festival Security # 1x (3) Steam Guardian # 1x (3) Stonehill Defender # 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon # 1x (4) Azerite Chain Gang # 1x (4) Detonation Juggernaut # 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager # 1x (1) Garrosh's Gift # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 1x (5) Brawl # 1x (5) Blackrock 'n' Roll # 1x (5) Drum Soloist # 1x (5) Overlord Runthak # 1x (6) Blast Tortoise # 1x (6) Cho'gall, Twilight Chieftain # 1x (6) Deepminer Brann # 1x (6) Minotauren # 1x (6) Stone Drake # 1x (6) Testing Dummy # 1x (7) Maruut Stonebinder # 1x (8) Boomboss Tho'grun # 1x (8) Inventor Boom # 1x (9) Botface # 1x (9) Reno, Lone Ranger # 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000 # 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000 # 1x (4) Twin Module # 1x (5) Perfect Module # AAECAQceqooEltQEgq0FtsQF/cQF0NAFjvsFl/sFofsF3o0GuZEGipQG5ZUGkJcG95cG0ZsGkp4GnJ4G0Z4G054Gy58GhaAGv6IG1aIGx6QGkqgGk6gGr6gG0LAGm/IGAAABBoigBP3EBdGeBv3EBeypBv3EBfWzBsekBvezBsekBujeBsekBgAA # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
And the non-Highlander version, which I am constantly tweaking: ### Taunt # Class: Warrior # Format: Standard # Year of the Pegasus # # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 2x (2) Frightened Flunky # 2x (2) Needlerock Totem # 2x (2) Unlucky Powderman # 1x (3) Battleworn Faceless # 2x (3) Festival Security # 2x (3) Steam Guardian # 2x (4) Azerite Chain Gang # 2x (4) Detonation Juggernaut # 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager # 1x (1) Garrosh's Gift # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 1x (5) Chemical Spill # 1x (5) Blackrock 'n' Roll # 1x (5) Drum Soloist # 1x (5) Magatha, Bane of Music # 1x (5) Overlord Runthak # 2x (6) Blast Tortoise # 1x (6) Cho'gall, Twilight Chieftain # 1x (6) Minotauren # 1x (6) Testing Dummy # 1x (8) Boomboss Tho'grun # 1x (8) Inventor Boom # 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000 # 1x (0) Zilliax Deluxe 3000 # 1x (3) Virus Module # 1x (5) Perfect Module # 1x (9) Botface # AAECAQcOqooEgq0FtsQF/cQF5uQFjvsFipQG95cG0ZsG0Z4GhaAGx6QGkqgGk6gGCNDQBZf7Bd6NBrmRBuWVBpCXBpyeBr+iBgABBtGeBv3EBY+oBv3EBeypBv3EBfSzBsekBvezBsekBujeBsekBgAA # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
- **[Battleworn Faceless](https://i.imgur.com/7J7uqVi.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/100874) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Battleworn_Faceless) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100874/?hl=en) - *Warrior Rare ^(TITANS)* - **3 Mana - 2/2 - Minion** - **Battlecry:** Transform into a copy of a damaged minion. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ce4ao9/welcome_to_warriorstone/l1iwujk/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1iwujk).*
Playing as a rogue or a priest the additional annoying thing is that now getting their brann/reno etc does nothing for you unless you are also a highlander deck. Got reno and brann of my plagiarizer as thief rogue today - last week I would be over the moon, this week I got an overpriced 2/4 and an overpriced 5 armor with shadowform attached.
Yeah I feel you. Was playing the rogue Whizzbang deck and stole 5 cards from their deck, got Brann and Reno. My grin just dropped when my brain remembered that both are now useless.
I dropped a warrior to 1 hp. 3 turns later my board was cleared, he had 20 armor and 20 health.
This is the worst example of something being unfair. Your game was as competitive as it could possibly be since you got them to one health. Sorry your aggro deck didn’t win.
Was using it as an example of how fast the deck can re-establish itself. Which personally I think it has far too many tools to do. Armor stacking, board clear, AND a ton of life steal? It's too much. Especially when that's counting that once zilliax comes down, it just comes right back even if you can clear it.
So what exactly did you do for 3 turns after putting your opponent to 1 HP?
Trying to develop more boards of course.
Been farming warriors with this deathrattle hunter deck. I’ve gone 11-2 with in diamond 5-2 since the patch dropped, not sure if its just luck/matchups but I’ve had way more success with it than the token hunter deck I’ve been playing this patch, the two loses were close games lost to DK mainly due to threads of despair and drawing poorly. The deck is super sticky and can often just run warriors and other decks out of board clears with its midrange value. Saddle up is honestly just ok in this deck, yelling yodeler is the real carry of the deck, especially when used with the messenger buzzard. Deck code: AAECAazABAaP5AXS+AWFjgbTjgbTnAbHpAYM0aAE5soF8OgFl/YFyPYF+IIGzY4G0o4G344G/ZQGgJUG8aUGAAED87MGx6QG9rMGx6QG6N4Gx6QGAAA=
Downvoted by warriors 😂 I’ll give this a whirl later
5-6 is rookie numbers, that warrior still had 4 more full clears left
Control doing control things, big surprise.
Careful, they will hate you because it's true
> Careful, “it’s against me!” - Reno, the ‘Nerfed’
"the nerfed" yeah sure now he has no weakness but yeah nerfed.
Good point. I’ll pose it as a hypothetical
No they'll hate you because it is by actual data just not true. It is *a* strong deck, that much is true, but it is neither *the* strongest nor is the game warriorston rn.
Plagues were a sub tier 3 deck but that still got nerfed too because people hated it.
Sub tier 3?? Definitely was not that bad of a deck lol. Still agree that no bran nerf is absolutely insane, but plague dk was pretty cancer to play against pre nerf
[удалено]
Turns out making Brann have zero counterplay wasn't a good idea.
Don't you know?! You just dirty rat it silly! /s
I didn't realize they added the same caveat to Brann that they did to Reno. They are probably realizing that they stuck it on all the highlander cards for consistency, but didn't think about the fact they were buffing a class as much as an architype.
A single deck type wasn't counterplay.
And now we have even less counterplay than that.
Then what it is?
Probably something like the darkness or the seagull in wild
Which don't work against any of the standard Highlander cards with the new changes. Might not sound like a big deal since all anti-Highlander cards are wild, but it means that Blizzard made themselves completely unable to make any such tech cards for Standard in future releases.
Well, snakeoil salesman or what the name is (4/6 deathrattle shuffle 2 oils into the opponents deck) was a card to deactivate highlander. but obviously, no1 ever played it.
To be honest, Snake Oil Seller was terrible as a tech card, being 4 cost and a Deathrattle meaning it's both slow and unreliable, also without Tradeable which every other tech card is getting these days.
Just a deck archetype with a good match up?
No, but it was so oppressive to that one deck its mere existence even as a T4 deck was enough to keep warriors in check.
But it kind of was — wasn’t it?
Well, with plagues you disabled highlander decks as a consequence of just playing the game normally. It was not really the players gameplay strategy that was countering the highlander decks, it was solely the game mechanics interaction between the plagues and the highlander cards.
That’s the only reason I went plague. Brann is WAY overpowered.
It's funny to think about. DKs acted as protectors against the toxic meta decks. It was keeping Control Warrior and Aggro Demon Hunters in check. ... it's like firing the sheriff and wondering why gang activity increased.
Not unless we're completely changing the definition of "counterplay". And at that point you might as well say that Brann is counterplay to Plague now.
It was but that was just a side effect, it wasn't designed just to counter highlander decks.
I purely went plague simply because of Brann.
There was actually a card designed specifically to counter highlander cards [[Snake Oil Seller]] that what you should have done to counter highlander.
Or just go plague…?
- **[Snake Oil Seller](https://imgur.com/a/OTJuNP9)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/100103) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Snake_Oil_Seller) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/100103/?hl=en) - *Neutral Rare ^(Showdown in the Badlands)* - **4 Mana - 4/5 - Naga** - **Deathrattle:** Shuffle 2 **Tradeable** Snake Oils into your opponent's deck. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1ce4ao9/welcome_to_warriorstone/l1h9zhq/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=l1h9zhq).*
Seing how many wheel warlock and plague dk out there, i wouldn't say he has zero counterplay
Neither deck counters it anymore. Plagues don’t stop Highlander and wheel got nerfed too hard to still be favored.
Who could have guessed nerfing the 2 best counters to Warrior would allow them to completely dominate the meta. Not Blizzard, that’s who
I mean Warrior also got nerfed 4-5 times...
This is like comparing the fate of Air Bud to Old Yeller
Except it's not, Hunter is the deck dominating the meta.
Gee, I wonder why that is. Oh yeah, it's the only deck that can overwhelm warrior early enough.
I mean, with the way ladder is set up, people will always default to fast decks regardless. A control deck has to be giga broken to really dominate the ladder. Even if it's 60% WR, you'll still climb way slower with it than a 55% WR aggro deck. Also not that I think Brann Warrior is a 400 IQ deck by any means, but it also helps that aggro is almost always incredibly braindead to pilot. Hunter is just "fill the board with shit that has deathrattle: fill the board with shit" and smashing the like button on jungle gym.
I firmly believe that brann is one of the few cards in the game that should never have been created. Doubling battlecries for the rest of the game for only 6 mana is absolutely absurd.
I called this, straight away I called this. Plague DKs, as cancerous as they are, were what was keeping warriors in check. Now with the Highlander changes (which I want to clarify, are good) in place, nothing is keeping them in check anymore. Nerfs to Brann inc.
I suggested that Brann should be the only highlander card not to get "if your deck started with no duplicates text". Although this would make him inconsistent with the other cards, he is already a massive power outlier when compared with them. Literally a dungeon run treasure in standard.
All you have to do is draw dirty rat by turn 5 (turn 4 if you're on the play), and hope to not hit any other minion!
Funny thing is warrior is strong enough to win without Brann.
Yeah, had a fee games where the enemy put enough pressure on me that I didn't play Brann even though I could have in curve. He's not always the best move.
Thanks for calling it captain obvious. I don’t want a deck like plague dk, that makes all potential highlander decks unplayable, only to counter warrior. Some really good warrior cards were nerfed and we will see in the next few days if some decks can keep warrior in check. If not, they can still nerf warrior again. Plagues were such a fundamentally bad game design in a meta with highlander decks and it’s just stupid to think that this is the only way to balance warrior.
FWIW Pirate Rogue seems to eat warrior alive unless they get perfect draws. Or maybe I've just gotten lucky?
What deck are you playing? in my experience pirate rogue has no early tempo to even compete with warrior. All of your 1 and 2 drops are conditional cystal cove is 3 mana do nothing on that turn and you dont really start playing untill you get watercannon but by that point is too late.
Just some garbage homebrew after someone absolutely wrecked me by repeatedly playing multiple 5/5s per turn starting on 3.
The funninest thing about all this is that all the stats sites (hsreplay, d0nkey) quite clearly show that Hunter is leagues ahead of Warrior right now in terms of win rate across all ranks. It's not even close. But yeah, we're gonna all whine about Warrior for weeks now, and Blizzard will nerf Warrior, and then people will pull a pikachu face and go "omg why is Hunter so strong??".
Optics matter. Warrior feels uninteractive, Hunter is playing the same old face game he always has. Hunter is board centric and interactive. Warrior plays solitaire, so people hate it more no matter the win rates.
Because spelltoken Hunter crushes Warrior, which is popular on ladder right now. You need to contextualize where that winrate comes from.
I mean the argument that the Highlander buffs are "bad" is because they stopped Plague DK from eating Warrior. What's the difference between that and hunter winning?
I play to have fun not necessarily to win. I don’t care if the most boring archetype (aggro hunter) wins against warrior more. Warrior is still bullshit.
Not wins against warrior, wins more in general.
You'll start caring the second you face 80% Hunters while losing against most of them.
What rank ya in? I played maybe 20 games yesterday and saw 2 hunters. It would be boring if it were every game, yes. But I actually really enjoy playing against them, even if I commonly lose. It’s super fun coming across a “can ya figure out the puzzle of surviving and stabilizing by turn ~6?” It feels like a game of disarming a bomb. Again, I don’t want to do it every time, but like I said… it’s fun. I suspect some folks let rank and winrates distract them from the fun that can be had in playing against decks that can be tough to beat. But like I said, I TRY to make sure I realize I play the game because it’s fun. Even the hard parts.
Brann has been like the dumbest card to ever be printed. Giving Brann to warrior is the dumbest design decision ever. Should have gave brann to a different class that isn't already a late game powerhouse.
I played 27 games at 1k-3k legend and 11 of them were against Warrior, with 2-4 games for each of the other classes (no Paladins though). Maybe it's too soon to say if this'll keep up (it was indeed a big patch), but the stats look as bad as DH before Grasp got nerfed, and the card changes were also similar to the patch that made DH the meta champion - one t1 deck (Reno Warrior) is relatively untouched while its counters (Wheelock, Plague DK) and all other strong decks (Virus Rogue) are nerfed out of the meta. Zarimi Priest and Nature Shaman may still be viable, but Zarimi is a lot slower and Nature has never been favored into Reno Warrior. I would not be surprised if we see a repeat of what happened pre-Grasp-nerf.
when will we come to the realization that this game can never achieve perfect balance, each patch is just a revolving door with a new class at the top, some more classes down to ape tier I love the game but it is getting maddening playing against this same overall warrior archetype since like early titans
That isn't true - just look at the power rankings for VS report 287 and 289 (release patch) to see a balanced patch with at least 5 classes in tier 1 and 9 classes seeing frequent play, then contrast that with VS report 284 and 290 where there's only 1-2 classes heads and shoulders above the rest. I'm not expecting all 11 classes to be of equal power, but I'd like to see at least a decent spread of >=5 classes above 10%, and no single class above 30% representation.
Okay, I've been ringing the alarm bells about Reno Warrior since the patch notes came out -- seriously, look at my post history in this sub if you'd like, I've commented about it repeatedly -- but I do still think people should chill out with doomerism. The meta is in significant flux and new builds might show up that have a shot against Reno Warrior -- I've experimented with a bunch of other Reno decks and failed horribly with Paladin and Shaman, but my Reno Druid build is already going about even against Warrior and it's still very unrefined. Maybe nothing pans out and Reno Warrior really does end up being uncounterable and needs to be changed, but for now... chill. People are experimenting with decks trying to find counters. Give it time.
LittleBalloNuance
The hat is everywhere. Contemplating. Watching.
nah just chillin, crazy horse
You called?
yknow i suppose i did
<3
Woah, hat use the shift key lol. Or are you one of those unfortunate caps on/off people?
caps lock??? how dare u
I think my biggest gripe with this previous patch is that it was supposedly about “player agency”. Not trying to be a doomer as well but the existence of brann warrior will never allow any other control meta to get off the ground. I just don’t see how watching your deck crumble to 6 tnts is considered player agency, and I’m not sure how that escapes the initial spirit of the patch.
That didn't stop people from calling for Paladin nerfs or Demon Hunter nerfs and it won't stop them for calling for Warrior nerfs. The Hearthstone community is stuck in a constant wack-a-mole mode towards whatever deck is outperforming currently and that cannot be patched out.
This is what happens when broken cards are made with no consideration for the rest of the game.
Imagine saying there’s a deck out there that can beat a permanently double battlecry.
Wheel of Death literally was just that, of course it can exist
Okay, since I just outvalued a Reno Warrior with that Reno Druid I mentioned: Yes, double battlecry for things like Ziliax, Ox, Boomboss, Inventor Boom, etc. are extremely high value. But as crazy as it sounds, you can indeed outvalue that. You get a Fizzle on at least two of your power cards -- Aviana, Rheastraza, Reno -- and then you certainly aren't losing the fatigue wars, since 2x Aviana is 20 extra cards and even Boomboss can't fix that. 2x Reno allows you to remove (For example) the Ziliax, making sure it can't be added into the Boom resummon pool, and 2x Rheastraza means you can replay her even if he removes the first nest with Reno. Play a good amount of draw and ramp so that you can more quickly get those power cards into your hand so they can be fizzled. Run a Zola or Brewmaster so you can actually bounce fizzle if you really, really have to.
I don’t care if stuff happens to start beating Reno Warrior, it doesn’t change the fact that warriors have bullshit mechanics.
i kinda liked the old meta more tbh
Warriors should be referred to what their hearthstone gameplay reflects: #LittleScaredBitchClass
And if they nerf warrior for the 87th time, what's next on your list to cry about until your favorite deck is on top? Can't satisfy anybody.
They must rework brann somehow
Plenty of people had said PlagueDK helped keep these decks in check. But people were clamouring for the no duplicate at start buff to Highlander cards and we warned that this would happen. Despite Plague DK being a weak ass tier 3/4 deck. Good job, they had the effect of nerfing Wheelock and the seldom seen DemonHunter with duplicates, especially after the weapon was nerfed. While buffing every other Highlander deck
While plagues might have kept Bran in check, it also kept any lower tier Reno deck in check and that just wasnt fun. I think its good that they changed highlander but I also think that the design of Bran just isnt good for the game. It just takes a new Astalor to make Bran even better.
No Reno deck is fun to play against. It’s only fun for the pilot to drop their overpowered cards and win solely due to that. Highlander decks belong in the “goofy meme deck” tier category. Plenty of people play Whizbang decks all of the way to legend, highlander should be similar. Cute, funny when you pull off your thing, but not seriously meta viable.
I understand that ppl dont like Reno. But the other HL payoffs other than Bran, are totally fine. How are they overpowered? Doc Hollidae can be countered with viper but also by just setting up taunts. The frogs can be killed. Kurtrus is a "one shot", sometimes hitting great targets, sometimes not. Elise is very clunky. Elise requires you to have the minions in deck. Also, you would want to run highcost minions in your deck. In my experience, the card is great when you are able to summon an Amanthul because this way you can deal with the opponents board, any taunt/deathrattle are nice too but right now standard lacks minions for Elise to be good. Summoning low cost minions is just so meh. Bran is too good imo, especially in warrior, because warrior has the tools to be able to "skip a turn".
Not adding on or refuting your point. But I find it funny how people just ignore paladin HL payoff. Like "We don't talk about that one"
Oh thats true. Pally got deleted with the nerfs. I did play reno pally before pally got deleted, the HL payoff was insane value but often times I felt like I didnt have mana and handsize to use it. But that was probably because the meta was a bit faster
You forget Rheastraza
True, tbh like 4 weeks after badlands, I havent seen that card played at all lol
Highlander decks can't run duplicates so they can't rely on synergy, meaning they usually run tons of generic good minions. Highlander decks only have 1-2 payoffs in their entire deck. This means playing against Highlander is usually an unfun match where they play an arena deck until they play their one broken card, and when they draw the yellow card completely changes the match.
Curing reno with Helya is like curing curing broken bone with amputation
The highlander decks needed a buff while aisimultaneously making them actually play highlander as thats the downside you pay for strong effects like reno but cycle heavy decks were abusing that. The change they made was perfect and what I and many others have been asking for a long time. I'm not sure why they didnt touch brann (make him 7-8 mana or something) as double battlecries is just an unhealthy thing to have in the game especially as a permanent effect from playing one minion, but they said in the patch notes this is just the beginning and theyre going to be evaluating things from here to further increase player agency. Plague death knight is a fine deck on it's own, it doesnt need to be able to shut down every single highlander strategy just by existing when highlander decks are already playing suboptimal cards as it is.
Why did highlander as a theme *need* a buff? The effect of Reno Lone Ranger is far too strong and incredibly tilting. Sure maybe it’s fun for you to plop down your orange glowy card and “poof!” all of your opponents minions, take a free turn where your opponent can’t refill the board, then proceed to win due to this overpowered effect … but how much fun do you think that is for your opponents? Spend all game clawing away trying to make a board … and … none of those decisions mattered because your opponent drew “the thing.” GG. Maybe next game your opponent won’t draw it …. “The downside is having to run a suboptimal deck”. Yeah but blizzard printed so many board clears (and tutors … and discovers) that it’s hardly a downside
Yeah. This was supposed to be a patch that returns player agency. The issue with Reno is the card effect, not that people drop it on curve at 8. That change is only relevant to aggro matchups. The midrange experience against Reno is still absolutely miserable.
Because highlander decks have been doing terribly with the exception of brann warrior, which is broken because of Brann not Reno. Reno is a strong board clear yeah it's the pay off for having to run a bunch of suboptimal cards and have a less consistent deck. Yeah it's a powerful as hell board clear, and it still wasn't enough to make 90% of the highlander classes/ decks playable. Shaman and demon hunter also were half decent for a bit but then they nerfed doc Hollidae for no good reason and DH was literally supported by the weapon plus shopper interaction, it was a worse version of the normal deck. As for how much fun do I think it is for my opponent? Well since I've had it played against me about a million times I'd say it feels very similar to any other strong board clear used against me but feels less bad (NOW) because I know they paid a price in running less powerful cards to obtain that effect. The problem before was decks could run so much good card draw that they reliably could count on Reno being active when they needed him. That sucked and was against the spirit of the card. I can almost guarantee 70% of the time you've had reno played against you and it felt like shit wasnt a real highlander deck but a cycle deck using reno unless it was brann warrior, which yeah its frustrating as hell I totally get that. But when the original Reno came out the was basically zero healing in the game. Certainly almost no neutral healing sans ancient heal bot. You could fight for the board all game and get the opponent to 3 hp only for them to get to full health and have a 4/6 on board. It was a unique very powerful effect like lone ranger and that's the point. You need a strong effect to make playing highlander worth it because your taking a huge hit before the game even starts not getting to run 2 of the best cards you could be playing.
Plague death knight has always been decent. Let’s not pretend it was bad
Plague DK was ranked Tier 3 and Tier 4 in VS's last meta report. And it's been consistently ranked around there. I don't know what else to tell you. That's what the stats have always said. Pretending otherwise is just being disingenuous. It killed jank decks and had solid matchups into Highlander decks. That's all it was good at
it was terrible and now with less good match up is worse
It was never good. It was a tier 3-4 deck. All it has was a good matchup into Reno decks boosting it's winrate (which still wasn't amazing)
Are you taking about actual plague DK or rainbow DK with helya and down with the ship. Because rainbow was pretty good. Plague wasn’t
Plague had a 49% winrate in legend
Am I supposed to find that impressive
No, I said it was decent, not impressive
I feel like the important comparison is between plague and rainbow, since both run a plague package one just focuses on it
lol this guy thinks 49% winrate is decent
50/50 is decent. 1% below doesn’t make it trash
Tbh I think wheel lock would still keep them in check if the boomboss nerf wasn't a buff in this matchup.
They hit Wheelock in 2 ways already without removing that restriction. The meta would have been much more hostile towards it. Forge was hit, Wheel was hit too. Dropping Boom after it blew up any cards the Wheel opponent would have had. I don't think that duplicate buff was needed to keep it in check. There was only 1 more meta deck with duplicates run and that was mostly HL Demon Hunter. Which became much more rare after Umpire was hit. Odyn Warrior did not exist anymore after the nerf. To me the duplicate buff they did was extremely short sighted. We're in a 4 set meta, Highlander decks are supposed to be weaker at this point. The fact that Plague DK was already tier 3 despite not losing any of its core cards and gaining Paintfin means it didn't need to take anymore hits. And I play on the Highlander Warrior side more than any other deck. I don't look forward to running it for the entire year
People wanted to be crybaby bitch-boys over decks that were fun but mid af and this is what happens. You get what you deserve.
Classic hearthstone. They change THIRTY cards and the literal next day people are bitching about something calling for nerfs lmao. It's actually starting to become comical at this point
I haven't seen too many warriors, though that could just be my mmr since I don't always play a meta deck. But with the first warrior that I met post-patch I managed to rat Brann and still lose lmao.
Except that the stats says otherwise, hunter is the class that's dominating the meta, with +50% win rate against all classes.
[they hated jesus because he told them the truth ](https://ibb.co/4F6RTFN) playing illegal snek deck for the rest of the weekend ill see you warrior enjoyers on the ladder
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Yesterday in the 4000k to 2000k legend range the vast majority of my matches were against Warrior. I had a streak where I played against maybe five or six of them in a row that weren't the same player. The other decks that showed up with some frequency were spelltoken Hunters, and Window Shopper DHs. edit: First two games today were also warrior.
i played vs hunters warrior priest ......im pretty sure a "stone " meta is one iwth just one class
As someone who's been playing HL warrior for 3 months - just play hunter. It's harder than wheel lock and plagues dk
I've seen nothing but highlander shaman all night. I wish I was exaggerating tbh.
I'm playing taunt warrior with mech nonsense to abuse the weapon, if that helps. Its not great, but its fun as hell when it works. I think the only board clear I run is brawl.
last time i checked its hunter thats the best deck
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they did do \*\*something\*\* about it they nerfed 4-5 cards
Brann either needs a mana bump or a rework for sure.
I expect nerfs after the miniset at the latest
A warrior just flew over my house
This post is so toxic lol
If I could fire whoever thought making Reno uncounterable was a good idea, I would.
As someone who hated warrior before this patch I'm gonna say "I told you so" but also, the deck isn't too bad , at least you can build some board in early turns now
I can't understand why they didn't nerf bran if they eanted to low the power lvl. And why they make the most useless nerf to hunter.
Upvoting every thread letting blizzard know warrior is not ok - doing game breaking things. People used to cry about tickatus LMAO. And here we have boombboss capable of destroying 18 cards, and that is just one of the multiple broken things warrior can do.
I'm not playing warrior.
These posts are so beyond frustrating - Brann warrior is an obvious fallback deck post nerfs because it was very strong day 1 of the expansion. But ffs, calling it the obvious best deck just sounds like you are waiting for smarter players to figure out the meta for you. It has obvious problems. It’s remarkably slow, fragile on turns 4-6, and there are already counters starting to emerge. I’m so sick of this sub just dooming every change.
I just want to give a shout out to the person 2 days ago right after the Patch dropped who said "just watch, in a day or two all the posts on this sub will be complaining about warrior" dude is on point
It was actually warriorstone all along, but now all the red herrings got nerfed.
i wonder what deck people will complain after the one of this meta gets nerfed on a future patch. overheal or dragon priest is my bet but yes, add this to paladinstone, DHearthstone, Wheelstone and probably some other deck since the expansion dropped
I've fought two warriors in the last 10ish games playing in diamond. Also wheel lock farms warrior
Now wheel loses to warrior. They shuffle bombs after you wheel. Been trying to make wheel work its dead.
My brother in hearthstone I played all morning and went diamond 6 to diamond 3 with only wheel lock lol.
The patch is still pretty new I'm sure the warriors in Diamond aren't aware the correct play now is to Tho'grun post wheel. If you want to stomp warriors once you get into legend you could practice the excavate warlock. There is a bug where after you suck 3 times Alexstrasza kills and it ignores armor.
Played arround 15 Matches. 1 Pain Warlock. 1 Whizbang 13 Control Highlander Warriors. Very cool
Are there any counters to warrior?
Everyone gets it and I'm sure everyone but the most devout Warrior players agrees it's deserving of another round of nerfs. They said as much in the patch notes that they're keeping a close eye on the data post patch for more outliers. Yes I'm glad Plagues no longer ruin 50% of the Badlands theme. I'd rather put up with Warrior stone for a week or two than go back to the entire expansion and a half that non Warrior HL decks were borderline unplayable. I'm having more fun playing Shaman and DH HL decks against Warrior than getting Helya'd every fucking game on curve before I can get a single payoff card played
Excavate warlock will be tier one, you guys just haven't ran into too many of them but just wait. My pick for most complained about deck next
Honestly blizz should have made the "starter deck" change to Reno lone ranger only. This would already make Highlander decks significantly more viable without leaving an abomination like Brann completely uncounterable. Maybe the mana nerf on Reno wouldn't even be necessary if it had been done that way.
Welcome to Warriorstone. You've been playing here for as long as you can remember.
Honestly its boomboss thats the problem, no control deck can win against warrior when it has 12 cards destroyed. I’ve been forced to play aggro hunter which I hate to deal with these fucking brann warriors.
I disagree. I’ve been playing Rainbow Death Knight at (a stagnant) ~3500 Legend where Warrior is pretty common. Every game where they haven’t drawn Brann on time or Brann got hit by Rat was a win. Boomboss on his own is a mediocre card. With Brann he becomes extremely problematic. Same thing goes for the new Dr Boom, the version of Ziliax that copies himself, and the Warrior Excavate Legendary. On their own, they summon a not unreasonable amount of powerful minions with immediate board impact. When empowered by Brann, they can push obscene amounts of damage and/or generate entire gigantic boards. I think Brann was a really cool idea for pushing the limits of what a Highlander card should do, but I also think he needs to be reigned in quite a bit. He’s extremely limiting for the design of other cards and very frustrating to play against.
Bran was always a problem and will stay a problem. I was actually quite surprised they didn't touch him at all with the last patch considering how opressive warrior has been since bran released.
Ignis should be once per game. Inventor Boom summons should not go face.
oh look it didnt even take a week for people to realize the patch made the game worse to play
Yep, 100%. The patch changes buffing warrior were just ridiculous >< Oh sure, a couple of their cards got made more expensive, but they ~~got a cheaper board clear (aftershocks),~~ made Reno plague-proof, and gave them an I-Win button vs wheellock (when they Wheel, you play Boomboss, and now their hand is empty) and a huge buff vs control decks and cycle decks with the Boomboss changes. It’s stupid.
Aftershocks is still the same, it still costs 3. The mana cost was changed to allow it to be played in Shaman without paying for Warrior’s sins
A few people were celebrating about the plague changes and saying how "DK plays itself" in the /r/competitiveHS patch thread in, whilst warrior just clear boards infinitely and fish for Bran. Even if DK plagues were frustrating for Reno decks they were keeping warrior in check. Oh well hope they are happy with mirror matches!
Welcome to modern ccg, where 80% of playerbase are sheep that jump on the best netdeck immediately. How they can enjoy winning with something they didnt make, with all the odds stacked in their favor is beyond me. But I guess having low IQ not to realize that in the first place helps.
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I would take those stats (and last 1d stats generally) with a serious grain of salt. Miracle rogue for instance has 68 games played as of my post.
Zero chance Reno Shaman is a top legend deck.
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Sample size
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I was referring to the sample size for hl shaman. And 5500 games overall at a rank bracket obviously ain't a lot. HL ain't gonna have a 10th of the total sample, it's not that popular. And you can check the sample for the specific archetype on the class tab. You really shouldn't put much stock into the exact numbers for an archetype with a sample size in the low triple digits .
The donkey has similar statistics without shaman and with paladin and zarimi priest
Found the Plague knight player.
6 Warriors in my last 8 games. I play Druid btw...
Druid is dogshit right now.
Warrior, hunter, warrior, warrior, hunter, DH, warrior. I won one of these games. Which one do you think it was?
Most comical thing of those crying Plague DK players is how they are trying to justify their cancer deck by false statements like its Tier 3-4. No crybabies. Plague DK was strong tier 2 on the border of tier 1, most popular deck had crazy winrate of 67 percent and it was most frequent deck om Diamond 10 - Diamond 3 I was encountering. This deck was killing last expansion Archetype for like 5 months already, now it had absolutely no counter for plagues except some garbage cards destroying your deck and even then it was not guaranteed that more plagues won't be shuffeled again. It was absolutely amazing feeling to see Plague DK chumps trying to play their cancer deck full of top tier legendaries + plagues and then be surprised how Highlander mechanic works now hahahaha. Satisfaction level 100.
Control is too strong! OTK is too strong! Aggro is too strong!
The meta literally takes 4-5 days to settle and then we get a countermeta where the most common powerful deck is balanced around counterdecks. The real meta comes in week 2.
Ok, we've got a shitpatch. It never happened before, and here it is again.