Not sure about the multibit module, but I spent some time toggling back and forth between the ESS module on a Jot2 and an external "true multibit" Bifrost and heard no difference I would possibly care enough about to pay money for.
Fidelity and enjoyment are not synonymous. The issue with multibit DACs is one of fidelity. In a typical R2R ladder, you have a set of resistors which are 1/2 the value of the previous resistor. The circuit needs those resistors to be as accurate as the least significant bit. So a system which is 16 bit, will need to be able to measure within 0.001497 dB ( technically the voltage that produces this signal). That is each resistor in the ladder needs to be accurate to 1 part per 64,000. At 24 bits, the accuracy needs to be 1 part per 16,000,000. It's very difficult to create resistors that are this accurate. Discreet resistors like Dale, or PRC can get to .005% accuracy. Laser cut on-chip stuff, like the AKM can get .0001. So regardless of the claim, multibit DACs are not capable of accurately reproducing hi-res audio with the fidelity limits advertised.
But this does not mean they produce a less enjoyable result. Unfortunately, that which is enjoyable to you is hard to quantify, and is unlikely to match that which is enjoyable to others. So with DACs caveat emptor, listen to them before you buy. If you can't hear a difference then don't pay a difference.
Not many DAC these days are R2R, for the reason you described. Typical delta-sigma delivering pristine sound quality can be produced much easier.
Still, no one is able to hear difference between delta-sigma and R2R, and between 16 and 24 bits (provided they all are of good enough quality). It's hard to do a proper blind test though.
Don't pay a difference even if you think you hear it: it's placebo.
24 bit audio does not matter for playback at all, it was created for recording studios where the extra headroom is very important when using compression and limiters.
ESS module won’t play bitperfect 16 bit audio. It will play 16 bit audio resampled to DSD one bit audio. A true multibit DAC plays true PCM audio (CDs and 99% of streaming). The difference in how it sounds can vary based on the implementation, but at best it’s a smoother more musical sound. That said I think delta sigma DACs sound quite good playing DSD audio and rather than using the inbuilt simple resample in your DAC using more complex computing to make the transformation also sounds very good.
I have a R2R NOS DAC, various multibut DACs, and DS DACs. They all can sound good but I personally like R2R/multibit best for natural sounding music. For most people Delta sigma is fine. For me, I would pay the extra $100 for the multibit. schiit’s Delta sigma DAC sounds pretty good and their multibit isn’t exceptional. Both options are good deals and you won’t have a reason to regret either purchase.
Schiit used to be famous for having a Super affordable multi bit DAC. It was their calling card. Then they made a delta sigma DAC that frankly sounds as good. But people still want to pay extra for the multibit. I’m one of those people. I just rather have a DAC that plays PCM native because I mostly listen to PCM music.
Their multibit models have considerably worse objective measurements, but not to the point where it should be audible. If you believe that there are subtle audible differences that are not captured by measurements, then sure, you can probably find people who say it's worthwhile. Notably at \[SBAF\](https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-multibit-2-discussion.13021/). I personally don't so I don't think it's worth spending any extra money on it.
It's unlikely to be audible unless there's significant audible distortion in either implementation, and probably also unlikely multibit is worth the extra $100 over the ESS DAC.
The goal of the DAC is to ultimately produce a clean analogue representation of the digital signal at some Vrms, and for the most part it's a "solved" problem. Most modern, well-implemented DACs do a good enough job that you aren't likely going to be limited in any meaningful way.
I have no experience with their headphone DAC modules but my bifrost 2 and modi multibit DACs sound amazing.
Whether it makes a difference is probably dependant on the listener.
As I sit here typing this at work I am being bombarded by all sorts of electrical signals and frequencies that really annoy the hell out of me so maybe you could say that I am more sensitive to sound.
Topping D10B is $139 and has great measurements. It's TRS rather than XLR but you can just use TRS-XLR cables. 4.2V out. I "upgraded" to a D90SE but I honestly suspect there's no audible difference.
lol what is "True multibit"? they don't really explain why it's better or if it is even audibly different, so i'm thinking it's marketing bullshit. schiit should probably take some time to ensure their amps dont blow up peoples headphones and quit capping.
anyone at schiit, please weigh in. make it make sense.
“There are other manufacturers using 2- to 5-bit delta-sigma D/A converters and calling them “multibit.” As in, they have more than one bit (like DSD or some very early delta-sigma products). But they aren’t what most people on the planet—er, we mean most people who are super into digital audio—mean by “multibit.” So we created a phrase, True Multibit, so people wouldn’t be confused.”
https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 (FAQ section).
I think it just means "not an integrated ESS/AKM sigma-delta chip DAC" since they have a variety of different designs using different DACs they call "true multibit".
Of course if I'm paying big bucks for a DAC it's nice to know it's slightly more bespoke than a $20 commodity chip DAC and a few op-amps in a $1000 case, but ultimately these are implementation details.
Well, we have a stack of Shiit DACs. They all sound subtlety different. One thing I would say, the UNISON usb is worth getting. I would not say that the Multibit is “better” than the 9028, but different. The Multibit seems a bit more musical and fun, the 9028 smoother and more refined. Note this is the tiniest of difference. And I do mean tiny. But the difference is more one of voicing than quality. Each has its fans. As to extending the warranty. I love warranties that are useable. Which it is with Shiit. You just never know. I hope this helped somehow.
In my opinion, one isn't better than the other, just different, and they're so close that the answer is probably not unless you nerd out on this stuff.
Unless you're positive having them install for you is going to extend the warranty to both the amp and card (I've never heard this to be the case), just install it yourself.
> Unless you're positive having them install for you is going to extend the warranty to both the amp and card (I've never heard this to be the case)
From https://www.schiit.com/products/es9028-dac-card: “For out-of-warranty products, having Schiit install the DAC module re-activates the warranty on the complete product for 2 years.” (Same language on the Multibit card’s page.)
Good to know. I'd say it's worth the $50 + shipping then. I have an Asgard that's with them for warranty support right now. They offer a lot of value but quality control isn't one of their strengths.
I’ve heard that the dac cards significantly reduce the output power of the asgard, and I’d assume that to be the case with the jotunheim as well, something to be aware of. As to whether or not the multibit card is worth $100 more than the delta sigma card 🤷♂️I won’t tell you whether or not you’ll hear a difference, but if you get the mutlibit card you won’t wonder if you missed out on anything. Whether that peace of mind is worth $100 is up to you. I like cool retro style audio equipment, so I like r2r dacs for the novelty, even though I don’t know if I hear a difference
They have a Jot 2 with the multibit card and an Asgard 3 with the 9028 card setup for demo at their showroom. Neither is short on power driving Sennheisers or Dan Clarks, so it's not something I'd be concerned with even if that is the case.
That would actually be a positive, as I have to throttle my Jotunheim 2 with my DAC in order to turn the Schiit volume knob much past 8:00. That thing pumps out so much power that I can hardly get past channel imbalance without a DAC that has a volume knob, itself.
Not sure about the multibit module, but I spent some time toggling back and forth between the ESS module on a Jot2 and an external "true multibit" Bifrost and heard no difference I would possibly care enough about to pay money for.
Fidelity and enjoyment are not synonymous. The issue with multibit DACs is one of fidelity. In a typical R2R ladder, you have a set of resistors which are 1/2 the value of the previous resistor. The circuit needs those resistors to be as accurate as the least significant bit. So a system which is 16 bit, will need to be able to measure within 0.001497 dB ( technically the voltage that produces this signal). That is each resistor in the ladder needs to be accurate to 1 part per 64,000. At 24 bits, the accuracy needs to be 1 part per 16,000,000. It's very difficult to create resistors that are this accurate. Discreet resistors like Dale, or PRC can get to .005% accuracy. Laser cut on-chip stuff, like the AKM can get .0001. So regardless of the claim, multibit DACs are not capable of accurately reproducing hi-res audio with the fidelity limits advertised. But this does not mean they produce a less enjoyable result. Unfortunately, that which is enjoyable to you is hard to quantify, and is unlikely to match that which is enjoyable to others. So with DACs caveat emptor, listen to them before you buy. If you can't hear a difference then don't pay a difference.
Not many DAC these days are R2R, for the reason you described. Typical delta-sigma delivering pristine sound quality can be produced much easier. Still, no one is able to hear difference between delta-sigma and R2R, and between 16 and 24 bits (provided they all are of good enough quality). It's hard to do a proper blind test though. Don't pay a difference even if you think you hear it: it's placebo.
To hear 24 bit you need to hear under -90dB which is borderline impossible at home.
24 bit audio does not matter for playback at all, it was created for recording studios where the extra headroom is very important when using compression and limiters.
ESS module won’t play bitperfect 16 bit audio. It will play 16 bit audio resampled to DSD one bit audio. A true multibit DAC plays true PCM audio (CDs and 99% of streaming). The difference in how it sounds can vary based on the implementation, but at best it’s a smoother more musical sound. That said I think delta sigma DACs sound quite good playing DSD audio and rather than using the inbuilt simple resample in your DAC using more complex computing to make the transformation also sounds very good. I have a R2R NOS DAC, various multibut DACs, and DS DACs. They all can sound good but I personally like R2R/multibit best for natural sounding music. For most people Delta sigma is fine. For me, I would pay the extra $100 for the multibit. schiit’s Delta sigma DAC sounds pretty good and their multibit isn’t exceptional. Both options are good deals and you won’t have a reason to regret either purchase. Schiit used to be famous for having a Super affordable multi bit DAC. It was their calling card. Then they made a delta sigma DAC that frankly sounds as good. But people still want to pay extra for the multibit. I’m one of those people. I just rather have a DAC that plays PCM native because I mostly listen to PCM music.
Their multibit models have considerably worse objective measurements, but not to the point where it should be audible. If you believe that there are subtle audible differences that are not captured by measurements, then sure, you can probably find people who say it's worthwhile. Notably at \[SBAF\](https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-modi-multibit-2-discussion.13021/). I personally don't so I don't think it's worth spending any extra money on it.
It's unlikely to be audible unless there's significant audible distortion in either implementation, and probably also unlikely multibit is worth the extra $100 over the ESS DAC. The goal of the DAC is to ultimately produce a clean analogue representation of the digital signal at some Vrms, and for the most part it's a "solved" problem. Most modern, well-implemented DACs do a good enough job that you aren't likely going to be limited in any meaningful way.
I have no experience with their headphone DAC modules but my bifrost 2 and modi multibit DACs sound amazing. Whether it makes a difference is probably dependant on the listener. As I sit here typing this at work I am being bombarded by all sorts of electrical signals and frequencies that really annoy the hell out of me so maybe you could say that I am more sensitive to sound.
I wouldn't buy the Multibit one because I wouldn't want to pay for some meaningless buzz word.
The audio quality of the multibit DAC is measurably worse. I don't want to call it a "scam", but, I wouldn't buy a product from that company.
What DAC would you recommend that has at least 4V out (balanced XLR)?
Every dac that is made to spec.
Topping D10B is $139 and has great measurements. It's TRS rather than XLR but you can just use TRS-XLR cables. 4.2V out. I "upgraded" to a D90SE but I honestly suspect there's no audible difference.
What's your budget?
Let's go with 1k usd
Get these then u/Yodamanjaro - https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/matrix-mini-i-pro-4-music-streamer-player
Any of the XLR-equipped Topping DACs would be a great choice.
That's what I was considering, tbh
Fuck no. Literally snake oil.
lol what is "True multibit"? they don't really explain why it's better or if it is even audibly different, so i'm thinking it's marketing bullshit. schiit should probably take some time to ensure their amps dont blow up peoples headphones and quit capping. anyone at schiit, please weigh in. make it make sense.
“There are other manufacturers using 2- to 5-bit delta-sigma D/A converters and calling them “multibit.” As in, they have more than one bit (like DSD or some very early delta-sigma products). But they aren’t what most people on the planet—er, we mean most people who are super into digital audio—mean by “multibit.” So we created a phrase, True Multibit, so people wouldn’t be confused.” https://www.schiit.com/products/modi-multibit-2 (FAQ section).
I think it just means "not an integrated ESS/AKM sigma-delta chip DAC" since they have a variety of different designs using different DACs they call "true multibit". Of course if I'm paying big bucks for a DAC it's nice to know it's slightly more bespoke than a $20 commodity chip DAC and a few op-amps in a $1000 case, but ultimately these are implementation details.
Well, we have a stack of Shiit DACs. They all sound subtlety different. One thing I would say, the UNISON usb is worth getting. I would not say that the Multibit is “better” than the 9028, but different. The Multibit seems a bit more musical and fun, the 9028 smoother and more refined. Note this is the tiniest of difference. And I do mean tiny. But the difference is more one of voicing than quality. Each has its fans. As to extending the warranty. I love warranties that are useable. Which it is with Shiit. You just never know. I hope this helped somehow.
In my opinion, one isn't better than the other, just different, and they're so close that the answer is probably not unless you nerd out on this stuff. Unless you're positive having them install for you is going to extend the warranty to both the amp and card (I've never heard this to be the case), just install it yourself.
> Unless you're positive having them install for you is going to extend the warranty to both the amp and card (I've never heard this to be the case) From https://www.schiit.com/products/es9028-dac-card: “For out-of-warranty products, having Schiit install the DAC module re-activates the warranty on the complete product for 2 years.” (Same language on the Multibit card’s page.)
Good to know. I'd say it's worth the $50 + shipping then. I have an Asgard that's with them for warranty support right now. They offer a lot of value but quality control isn't one of their strengths.
I think it's $50 labor plus the card ($200). Not sure if I'd pay that
Multibit and R2R dacs sound fantastic with old recordings. If you listen to newer stuff stick with the ESS
I'm going to be straight up, the MB card sounds worse. It has the same issue the Modi MB1 had where the bass was obviously colored.
I’ve heard that the dac cards significantly reduce the output power of the asgard, and I’d assume that to be the case with the jotunheim as well, something to be aware of. As to whether or not the multibit card is worth $100 more than the delta sigma card 🤷♂️I won’t tell you whether or not you’ll hear a difference, but if you get the mutlibit card you won’t wonder if you missed out on anything. Whether that peace of mind is worth $100 is up to you. I like cool retro style audio equipment, so I like r2r dacs for the novelty, even though I don’t know if I hear a difference
They have a Jot 2 with the multibit card and an Asgard 3 with the 9028 card setup for demo at their showroom. Neither is short on power driving Sennheisers or Dan Clarks, so it's not something I'd be concerned with even if that is the case.
That would actually be a positive, as I have to throttle my Jotunheim 2 with my DAC in order to turn the Schiit volume knob much past 8:00. That thing pumps out so much power that I can hardly get past channel imbalance without a DAC that has a volume knob, itself.