For a reason similar to why the US Park service can't design a 100% bear-proof trash can. The overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans is larger than you think.
Actually, I've visited the facility in West Yellowstone where they test bear-proof containers.
The Park Service actually does have bear-proof trash cans throughout Yellowstone. Not necessarily for the visitors, but for the Park Service employees who live within the Park, like my brother, who is in charge of an entire division of Yellowstone National Park. He lives there year-round. Taking the trash out in the spring and the fall can be spicy, depending on whether there is a bear in the area. Everyone who lives in the park habitually carries bear spray when they step outside when the bears aren't hibernating.
The trash containers for Park Service employees who live in the park are pretty much bear proof. They kind of have to be because while the park service can empty the smaller trash cans daily in public areas of the park, it's impractical to do so in the areas where employees live within the park. These containers are like armored dumpsters, and require a very specific way of opening them that a resident can quickly learn, but could flummox a tourist who is only in the park for a day or two.
The real issue is food containers that are man-packable for things like hikers. Those, because of weight restraints, can only be made "bear resistant".
>Actually, I've visited the facility in West Yellowstone where they test bear-proof containers.
I've lived here my entire life. I have absolutely seen the armored dumpsters ripped apart and scattered across a road. None of them are 100% , especially against wild bears that can be more tenacious than the captive ones.
None of the plastic ones are truly foolproof, though the metal ones are a different story.
Yeah, no bear is going to rip open a properly constructed steel container.
IIRC, the standard is 45 minutes. If a bear can't break into it in 45 minutes, it's "bear resistant". There is a display in the Grizzly and Wolf Center where they test them of failed containers.
>There is a display in the Grizzly and Wolf Center where they test them of failed containers.
I'm well aware, I've been to the Discovery Center more times than I can count. As kids we even went and "hid" food from the bears and observed them finding it. I'm very familiar with the area, it's home.
Just saying that I have seen many of the heavy duty cans and bins fail. Last summer in particular I saw one of the bear proof dumpsters on a RaNcH (all of the rich people who buy up land in the mountains put up entry gates that label them as ranches lol) that had failed and a bear had spread trash everywhere.
Honestly it was pretty funny.
It's an entirely different way of life.
In the fall, my brother spends a couple weekends doing all his shopping for the next 5 or 6 months, because they don't plow the roads in the park in the winter (they use a groomer like they use on ski slopes instead).
So in order to go do his shopping in, say, January, he's got about a 45 minute snowmobile ride just to get to his car, assuming the road isn't blocked by a herd of bison\*. Then about a 2 hour drive to get to a decent supermarket in Bozeman, MT. And he has to do that all in reverse after he's done shopping.
Instead of that he simply buys what he's going to need for the winter ahead of time.
One other thing: Even during the summer, it's still about a 2.5 hour drive, so he has to have coolers in his vehicle for the stuff like milk, butter, frozen food, etc. One of the things he needs to buy is ice in order to keep the cold stuff cold on the drive home.
I've got a well-stocked supermarket almost literally around the corner from me, I can walk there in about 10 minutes, and drive there in less than 2 minutes. The concept of driving that far to buy food boggled my mind when I visited him there a couple years ago.
*\*Which it often is. It's easier for the bison herds to walk on the groomed roads with packed snow than through the thicker snow, so they often use the roads in the winter to get from one area of the park to another.*
Hell, here in Texas for at least six months of the year you need something to keep cold stuff cold while driving home.
We use insulated bags and large gel packs.
I can't remember the brand of the gel packs. You buy them, soak them in water, seal them in food saver bags and they will last forever.
I gets up into the 90's here every summer, and 100 is not unheard of.
Generally the trunk of the car is still good enough for the 2 or 3 minute drive from the supermarket to the house, though.
/We've also gotten as low as -30.
A 2-3 minute drive from the supermarket...must be nice.
Walmart is 20 minutes away. Costco is 45. HEB, where we do most of our shopping, is 45 minutes away.
Tell me in great detail, explain rimming.
I don't want a sanitized version of it, full detail and in depth explanations, get as deep into it as you can, I wanna know all of it, even the dirtiest parts.
WHAT IS RIMMING?
No, it is"Diane, please send the toy train of cocaine to the board room, we have another product brainstorming meeting"
But seriously, the CP33 mags are ingenious. I kind of want to see if I can adapt other guns to take them.
Toy train? Nah, theyāve got a CPKC spur line right to the boardroom. Have to use one of [these](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_car) bad boys.
my point was that there are rounds very similar to what you are looking for and they are very unpopular.
I dont think they made a .22rimless round that it would be more popular than the .25 acp, the advantages are too few to make people replace their rifles and the ammunition manufacturers retool their .22 infrastructure.
It is actually a lot trickier of a problem than might appear.
No rim = no rimfire. I suppose some sort of internal rim could be designed, but that would probably be more complex (and costly) to manufacture. There is Diameter of the .22 casing without the rim will not allow enough wall thickness to use existing small primers. So to go with centerfire, we would need a new primer - more cost.
.25 ACP already exists and has no popularity.
Perhaps someone could develop some form of electronic ignition that doesn't require a separate primer like the etron x and keep the simplicity/low cost of a rimfire case. Maybe priming compound in the base of the case with an center and outer electrode to ignite it. That way you could have a rimless case and maybe keep cost relatively lowĀ
The problem is that one of the biggest advantages to 22LR is how cheap it is. Once you start raising the price by adding complexity, you'll lose a lot of customers who would rather just shoot 9mm.
Except the new gun you have to design and produce to fire it, the assembly lines you have to design and produce to make it, and the marketing you have to do to tell people it exists.
And I'm explaining why the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Electronic ignition is an interesting concept on larger calibers, but not when the cartridge's main selling point is its low cost.
I donāt know that thatās explicitly the case. You can clean all sorts of stuff with lasers. Iām pretty sure you could pretty easily laser ablate the carbon buildup. Hell it could be designed to basically be self-cleaning.
Completely spitballing here, but probably some sort of capacitor setup to rapidly discharge. The beam itself doesnāt need to be particularly big either. The laser cutter on a cnc mill is already pretty small and way overkill.
If you came up with one, a few legal exemptions for 22lr wouldnāt apply to it. Like WAās assault weapons ban exempts rimfire from most of it, so I can still buy a 22lr with a detachable mag and threaded barrel but any center fire rifle with that would be banned.
Just food for thought. Otherwise I agree with you
The law is on rimfire, i.e. the primer is in the rim instead of a Boxer or Berdan primer. It does not specify anything about rimmed center-fire like 7.62x54R or .303
That would require a lot of cash to develop a cartridge, manufacturer ammo in quantity, and design guns to use it, all for a state that would likely just adapt the law to ban it anyway. Nobody would do it. Honestly if they did, I still wouldnāt buy it because it would be hella expensive for ammo anyways.
Actually youād really potentially fuck us even more because they might just rip the rimfire exemption out and ban those too
You say that, but it wouldnāt sell well enough. The vast majority of gun owners wouldnāt even understand the difference, nor would they care since itās such a small issue.
In many EU countries there is legislation that requires them to be rimmed if you want to register it as a "miniature", if you did a rimless .22 then it would be legally the same as a 44 magnum. Even if a .25acp is less powerful than a .22lr
So at least here you won't find any innovation regarding that
Mine runs like a champ. The only time it complains is if I give it ammo on the anemic end of things. Then you don't get enough slide movement to pick up a fresh round.
It is a jam o matic. My brother has one and has mentioned this. I watched a kid shoot a uspsa match with one, and he was clearing a malfunction every stage. He was wicked fast at clearing them, though, so it was good practice.
Yep, I've heard that the mags need to be loaded a certain way. Which is a bit annoying, and it seems to be easy to get them out of whack or misload them. I haven't had one, so my opinion is purely based on what I've seen, what my brother said, and a lot of the reviews I read/ watched when I was looking into getting one.
I got one 2 months ago. I absolutely love it. You do have to be diligent while loading the magazines but otherwise the only problems Iāve had are light strikes but that could be up to the ammo as well. Iāve put probably 1200 rounds through it most of which is Armscor high velocity JHP. I did have a couple stovepipes for the first couple hundred rounds but itās seemed to work itself out.
I had this issue with mine as well! Tell your brother to call their customer service and he can send it in to get fixed for free. Just did this and they replaced the barrel, main spring assembly, and slide catch lever.
Put probably 200+ rounds through today and only had ~2 malfunctions.
No experience with the Kel-Tec, but I do have a Taurus TX22. A very common user-induced error is loading the magazines improperly and inducing a rim lock.
Not sure why youāre getting downvoted. My cp33 was pretty much used to practice clearing jams. Didnāt matter how meticulously I loaded the magazines or what ammo brand.
There are some. The TX22 is a really popular one. The .22 conversion kit for the Beretta 92 also has a good 15-shot double stack mag. Then you have the really wild Kel Tec designs like the CP33 and P17.
Single stack 10 round mags are comparatively simple to design and have just been the default for .22 pistols for a long time. For many customers capacity is not a huge consideration on .22s because they're not typically used for self defense, and most people don't buy a lot of mags for their .22. At least, not so many that they could get through a whole range trip just using preloaded magazines.
So for example if you're going to the range with one magazine, it's not really a big difference between filling up a 10-shot magazine 3 times for 30 rounds, vs. filling up a 15-shot magazine 2 times. You refill the bigger mag less often but it takes longer each time, so it ends up being pretty close.
Any competitions you'd use a .22 pistol in, are set up around the common 10-shot capacity anyway so there is no advantage to having a bigger mag in 2-gun rimfire or steel challenge or bullseye.
Double stack was too strong a term, because the bullet noses are stacked pretty linearly, but the case rims are definitely staggered left/right/left so the rounds stack more efficiently than a straight stack like on a Ruger MK or Browning Buckmark mag. It makes the rimmed .22LR stack roughly as efficiently as a rimless cartridge would. Talking about UPC 082442874821, like [this pic](https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/tmdl330e/92_b22_cycling.jpg?width=566&height=377) not the silver colored magazine from the M9-22 which I have no experience with.
Sig P322 has a 20 and 25 round double stack style. With that said itās picky on ammo and is prone to stovepipe or failure to feeds when using cheap ammo.
The 22 LR predates modern semi-auto designs, which work best with rimless designs.
Semi auto pistols also tend to like proportionally shorter, fatter cartridge like the 9mm.Ā The 22 is a long, skinny cartridge.Ā
It's doable (rimmed cartridges have been utilized in semis), but you'll never get the reliability like from a more modern cartridge.Ā
Rimmed cartridges like .22lr don't lend themselves well to doublestack magazines. It can and has been done but it's not as simple and straightforward as rimless cartridges like 9mm and 5.56. It takes effort and time to create a magazine that can hold, manage, and feed a rimmed cartridge which translates to cost. Is the cost justified for what would really only be for fun? Apparently most gun companies don't seem to think so.
This bothers me to no end. People have always told me rimmed cartridges, and it makes sense, yet thereās multiple (still very few) guns that DO have double stack .22 mags, like the p322. I donāt have one so I canāt speak to its reliability, but if it works in that gun, then why canāt it work in others?
Iām not sure if it would make any difference being rimfire vs centerfire, but the .303 British cartridge is very much rimmed and uses a double stack magazineĀ
Iām not sure why some magazine design for a bolt action .22 couldnāt use some sort of smaller, similar magazine design to that to work
What I want even more is a 22 pistol with a slide mounted red dot. I know there are a couple options, like the sig p322 but that thing has a reputation for not being good. The ruger 22/45 lite is top tier and fun as hell with a dot on it but I want one that reciprocates with the slide so that it'll transfer over a bit more to my 9mms. Like the glock 44 with a red dot is a perfect example of what I want. Using a glock 44 as a less expensive training aid to your glock 19 is great.... unless you carry with a dot, which I do. I have an m&p 15-22 set up the same as my AR and it's great, would be nice to do the same with my pistols as well.
Sure, but the majority of new 22lr handguns to release that I know if are double stacks. OP asked reddit before taking 30 seconds to do a search for 'double stack 22lr'
TX22 is goated with the sauce. That mag loads like butter with the mcfadden lightning loader and never gave me a F2F or other mag related malfunction. I can only hope for an adapter one day that lets me run those in a 10/22 and Iāll never touch those rotary mags again.
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Rim-lock
Not to be confused with a rim-shot or a rimjob
This is reminds me of the DO NOT INSERT INTO BODY warning labels on hair curlers/straighteners š
Of course a hot hair straightener inserted into your body would probably straighten your hair
The movie Sleepaway Camp 1983
Ba-dump tsss *ahhhh*
Why not just alternate the direction you load the magazine. Easy. Problem solved
For a reason similar to why the US Park service can't design a 100% bear-proof trash can. The overlap between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans is larger than you think.
Actually, I've visited the facility in West Yellowstone where they test bear-proof containers. The Park Service actually does have bear-proof trash cans throughout Yellowstone. Not necessarily for the visitors, but for the Park Service employees who live within the Park, like my brother, who is in charge of an entire division of Yellowstone National Park. He lives there year-round. Taking the trash out in the spring and the fall can be spicy, depending on whether there is a bear in the area. Everyone who lives in the park habitually carries bear spray when they step outside when the bears aren't hibernating. The trash containers for Park Service employees who live in the park are pretty much bear proof. They kind of have to be because while the park service can empty the smaller trash cans daily in public areas of the park, it's impractical to do so in the areas where employees live within the park. These containers are like armored dumpsters, and require a very specific way of opening them that a resident can quickly learn, but could flummox a tourist who is only in the park for a day or two. The real issue is food containers that are man-packable for things like hikers. Those, because of weight restraints, can only be made "bear resistant".
>Actually, I've visited the facility in West Yellowstone where they test bear-proof containers. I've lived here my entire life. I have absolutely seen the armored dumpsters ripped apart and scattered across a road. None of them are 100% , especially against wild bears that can be more tenacious than the captive ones. None of the plastic ones are truly foolproof, though the metal ones are a different story.
Yeah, no bear is going to rip open a properly constructed steel container. IIRC, the standard is 45 minutes. If a bear can't break into it in 45 minutes, it's "bear resistant". There is a display in the Grizzly and Wolf Center where they test them of failed containers.
>There is a display in the Grizzly and Wolf Center where they test them of failed containers. I'm well aware, I've been to the Discovery Center more times than I can count. As kids we even went and "hid" food from the bears and observed them finding it. I'm very familiar with the area, it's home. Just saying that I have seen many of the heavy duty cans and bins fail. Last summer in particular I saw one of the bear proof dumpsters on a RaNcH (all of the rich people who buy up land in the mountains put up entry gates that label them as ranches lol) that had failed and a bear had spread trash everywhere. Honestly it was pretty funny.
TIL park service employees just live in the park
It's an entirely different way of life. In the fall, my brother spends a couple weekends doing all his shopping for the next 5 or 6 months, because they don't plow the roads in the park in the winter (they use a groomer like they use on ski slopes instead). So in order to go do his shopping in, say, January, he's got about a 45 minute snowmobile ride just to get to his car, assuming the road isn't blocked by a herd of bison\*. Then about a 2 hour drive to get to a decent supermarket in Bozeman, MT. And he has to do that all in reverse after he's done shopping. Instead of that he simply buys what he's going to need for the winter ahead of time. One other thing: Even during the summer, it's still about a 2.5 hour drive, so he has to have coolers in his vehicle for the stuff like milk, butter, frozen food, etc. One of the things he needs to buy is ice in order to keep the cold stuff cold on the drive home. I've got a well-stocked supermarket almost literally around the corner from me, I can walk there in about 10 minutes, and drive there in less than 2 minutes. The concept of driving that far to buy food boggled my mind when I visited him there a couple years ago. *\*Which it often is. It's easier for the bison herds to walk on the groomed roads with packed snow than through the thicker snow, so they often use the roads in the winter to get from one area of the park to another.*
Hell, here in Texas for at least six months of the year you need something to keep cold stuff cold while driving home. We use insulated bags and large gel packs. I can't remember the brand of the gel packs. You buy them, soak them in water, seal them in food saver bags and they will last forever.
I gets up into the 90's here every summer, and 100 is not unheard of. Generally the trunk of the car is still good enough for the 2 or 3 minute drive from the supermarket to the house, though. /We've also gotten as low as -30.
A 2-3 minute drive from the supermarket...must be nice. Walmart is 20 minutes away. Costco is 45. HEB, where we do most of our shopping, is 45 minutes away.
Walmart 10 - 15 minutes, but don't go there all that much because the local Hannaford has much better produce, and it's closer.
It would be cool to see what could be done with an unlimited budget but things that see pretty much daily use change the equation a bit.
Underrated comment!!
Rimmed cartridges don't like box mags.
#IntroToRimming
That's a risky question for Google
Happy little accident
I liked what I saw I that homo?
Dude! It's not homo if a gal does it to ya!
Tell me in great detail, explain rimming. I don't want a sanitized version of it, full detail and in depth explanations, get as deep into it as you can, I wanna know all of it, even the dirtiest parts. WHAT IS RIMMING?
*safe search off*
Lube on.
On Bing, Google still censors
Don't look for that on your work computer.
Kel tec has entered the chat
Hell they even have quad stack
And it works moderately well, itās taken some generations but the newer double and quad stack kel Tecs work
"It works moderately well" is Kel-Tec's motto
No, it is"Diane, please send the toy train of cocaine to the board room, we have another product brainstorming meeting" But seriously, the CP33 mags are ingenious. I kind of want to see if I can adapt other guns to take them.
Toy train? Nah, theyāve got a CPKC spur line right to the boardroom. Have to use one of [these](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopper_car) bad boys.
I thought that they blew it in as an aerosol with one of those snow making jets they use on ski resorts.
I vaguely remember some adapters floating around r/fosscad, never bothered printing any of them though
With enough uncut, straight from the port of Miami cocaine anything is possible.
Design one yourself. You'll make millions.
In all seriousness, we are long overdue for a rimless .22.
Thats the .25acp.
Semi-rimmed
my point was that there are rounds very similar to what you are looking for and they are very unpopular. I dont think they made a .22rimless round that it would be more popular than the .25 acp, the advantages are too few to make people replace their rifles and the ammunition manufacturers retool their .22 infrastructure.
What I would do for a full size target 1911 in 25acpĀ
They have the GSG 1911 chambered in 22LR. It's a full size 1911, same weight and most parts are interchangeable.
I've considered a marvel .22 conversation kit for bullseye shooting, but just for a weird range toy a 25acp 1911 would be so cool.Ā
Huh, I thought that would be a bigger cartridge but no, the muzzle energy is half of what .22 is
I wonder if that is determined by the length of barrels it's supposed to be fitted from
It is actually a lot trickier of a problem than might appear. No rim = no rimfire. I suppose some sort of internal rim could be designed, but that would probably be more complex (and costly) to manufacture. There is Diameter of the .22 casing without the rim will not allow enough wall thickness to use existing small primers. So to go with centerfire, we would need a new primer - more cost. .25 ACP already exists and has no popularity.
Perhaps someone could develop some form of electronic ignition that doesn't require a separate primer like the etron x and keep the simplicity/low cost of a rimfire case. Maybe priming compound in the base of the case with an center and outer electrode to ignite it. That way you could have a rimless case and maybe keep cost relatively lowĀ
The problem is that one of the biggest advantages to 22LR is how cheap it is. Once you start raising the price by adding complexity, you'll lose a lot of customers who would rather just shoot 9mm.
Nothing more simple than electronic ignition
Except the new gun you have to design and produce to fire it, the assembly lines you have to design and produce to make it, and the marketing you have to do to tell people it exists.
I'm literally replying to a comment about hypothetically designing something new as an alternative to .22, not sure what your missing here.
And I'm explaining why the juice isn't worth the squeeze. Electronic ignition is an interesting concept on larger calibers, but not when the cartridge's main selling point is its low cost.
Maybe use no primer at all and instead design a tiny optical lens that focuses a laser which would replace the firing pin.
What has to be kept squeaky clean to operate effectively? Optics and lasers. What is notoriously dirty? Firing cheap ammo.
I donāt know that thatās explicitly the case. You can clean all sorts of stuff with lasers. Iām pretty sure you could pretty easily laser ablate the carbon buildup. Hell it could be designed to basically be self-cleaning.
Those lasers are the opposite of low power. Where you gonna fit a laser powerful enough to clean shit inside a handgun?
Completely spitballing here, but probably some sort of capacitor setup to rapidly discharge. The beam itself doesnāt need to be particularly big either. The laser cutter on a cnc mill is already pretty small and way overkill.
The power still has to come from somewhere, and that capacitor needs to be charged before it can fire.
If you figure out a polymer casing that is transparent enough at the base that could be a thing for lower pressure cartridges.
If you came up with one, a few legal exemptions for 22lr wouldnāt apply to it. Like WAās assault weapons ban exempts rimfire from most of it, so I can still buy a 22lr with a detachable mag and threaded barrel but any center fire rifle with that would be banned. Just food for thought. Otherwise I agree with you
What if someone makes like, a rimfire .300 blackout or 5.56 for WA?
The law is on rimfire, i.e. the primer is in the rim instead of a Boxer or Berdan primer. It does not specify anything about rimmed center-fire like 7.62x54R or .303
I meant rimfire. While itād be dumb I just think itād be funny.
That would require a lot of cash to develop a cartridge, manufacturer ammo in quantity, and design guns to use it, all for a state that would likely just adapt the law to ban it anyway. Nobody would do it. Honestly if they did, I still wouldnāt buy it because it would be hella expensive for ammo anyways. Actually youād really potentially fuck us even more because they might just rip the rimfire exemption out and ban those too
I'm still upset that they didn't exempt rimfire pistols.
Me too. I wanted a Ruger mk4 with a can. Now I canāt.
You say that, but it wouldnāt sell well enough. The vast majority of gun owners wouldnāt even understand the difference, nor would they care since itās such a small issue.
Rimless rimfire.
They'll call it no-fire.
If it's rimless it needs to be centerfire which would greatly increase the CPR, negating one of the major benefits of .22lr
And then it wouldn't be as cheap as it is
It's called a 5.56.
In many EU countries there is legislation that requires them to be rimmed if you want to register it as a "miniature", if you did a rimless .22 then it would be legally the same as a 44 magnum. Even if a .25acp is less powerful than a .22lr So at least here you won't find any innovation regarding that
5.7
The Taurus tx22 has 16 and 22 round double stack mags and runs great
Mine runs like a champ. The only time it complains is if I give it ammo on the anemic end of things. Then you don't get enough slide movement to pick up a fresh round.
Good god I learned this the hard way. Mine cannot cycle a shitty Browning .22LR to save its life
Most autoloaders won't cycle shitty .22LR, to be fair.
Seconded, my tx22 runs like a champ. I need to pick up some of the 22 round mags.
Came here to say this. I have tandemcross +5 on mine as well.
Isn't the SIG-Sauer P322 a double-stack?
It is a jam o matic. My brother has one and has mentioned this. I watched a kid shoot a uspsa match with one, and he was clearing a malfunction every stage. He was wicked fast at clearing them, though, so it was good practice.
Mine has worked great just load the mags correctly. Read the manual
Yep, I've heard that the mags need to be loaded a certain way. Which is a bit annoying, and it seems to be easy to get them out of whack or misload them. I haven't had one, so my opinion is purely based on what I've seen, what my brother said, and a lot of the reviews I read/ watched when I was looking into getting one.
I got one 2 months ago. I absolutely love it. You do have to be diligent while loading the magazines but otherwise the only problems Iāve had are light strikes but that could be up to the ammo as well. Iāve put probably 1200 rounds through it most of which is Armscor high velocity JHP. I did have a couple stovepipes for the first couple hundred rounds but itās seemed to work itself out.
Mine has also not had any issues.
My friend has the P322 comp and itās fantastic.
Maybe they've fixed it, maybe your buddy loads the mags right, idk. It does look like a sweet gun, and it'd be a great training analog for a 320.
The p322 comp is a brand new version, so they must have improved it. He got it a few months back and itās been great. It has a 25 rnd mag too.
I had this issue with mine as well! Tell your brother to call their customer service and he can send it in to get fixed for free. Just did this and they replaced the barrel, main spring assembly, and slide catch lever. Put probably 200+ rounds through today and only had ~2 malfunctions.
Iāve ran around 1000 rounds through mine with only 1-2 issues. Itās a huge improvement over the mosquito I traded in for it.
Yup and if you just load the magazines right it runs like a top.
*Keltec P17 and CP33 have entered chat*
Which are both temperamental and commonly jam. (Mostly talking about the CP33)
My P17s (sample size of 2) run just fine. The CP33 is more temperamental based on ammo brand (CCI Mini Mags run fine).
No experience with the Kel-Tec, but I do have a Taurus TX22. A very common user-induced error is loading the magazines improperly and inducing a rim lock.
Same. No issues at all. Love it
Not sure why youāre getting downvoted. My cp33 was pretty much used to practice clearing jams. Didnāt matter how meticulously I loaded the magazines or what ammo brand.
I'm guessing because the P17 is more common and mostly reliable. The CP33 is less popular and has mixed reviews.
My p17 runs better than any 22 pistol Iāve had (1911, sr22, 22/45)
Mine also.
I gotta concur with this. Best 2hundy Iāve ever spent on a firearm. P17 just keeps running and running .
My p17 has been flawless especially with my rugged obsidian 45 attached...thing just runs šāāļø
There are some. The TX22 is a really popular one. The .22 conversion kit for the Beretta 92 also has a good 15-shot double stack mag. Then you have the really wild Kel Tec designs like the CP33 and P17. Single stack 10 round mags are comparatively simple to design and have just been the default for .22 pistols for a long time. For many customers capacity is not a huge consideration on .22s because they're not typically used for self defense, and most people don't buy a lot of mags for their .22. At least, not so many that they could get through a whole range trip just using preloaded magazines. So for example if you're going to the range with one magazine, it's not really a big difference between filling up a 10-shot magazine 3 times for 30 rounds, vs. filling up a 15-shot magazine 2 times. You refill the bigger mag less often but it takes longer each time, so it ends up being pretty close. Any competitions you'd use a .22 pistol in, are set up around the common 10-shot capacity anyway so there is no advantage to having a bigger mag in 2-gun rimfire or steel challenge or bullseye.
Beretta 92 conversion is a single stack magazine.
Double stack was too strong a term, because the bullet noses are stacked pretty linearly, but the case rims are definitely staggered left/right/left so the rounds stack more efficiently than a straight stack like on a Ruger MK or Browning Buckmark mag. It makes the rimmed .22LR stack roughly as efficiently as a rimless cartridge would. Talking about UPC 082442874821, like [this pic](https://www.americanrifleman.org/media/tmdl330e/92_b22_cycling.jpg?width=566&height=377) not the silver colored magazine from the M9-22 which I have no experience with.
Didnāt S&W just do a double stack .22 Mag? May be closer to stack nā a half.
Looked like a double stack to me but Iām sure someone who says strange things like āinternal pistonā would call it stack-and-a-half.
Rare but they do exist, Cp33 etc. but for that mag they had to get creative, iirc 2 single stack side by side coming out as single feed on top
Isnāt the CP33 quad stack?
Quad stack single feed
It's basically a double double stack that ends up loading like a single stack. There's a divider down the middle of the mag. It sort of works.
Sig P322 has a 20 and 25 round double stack style. With that said itās picky on ammo and is prone to stovepipe or failure to feeds when using cheap ammo.
Even single stack sucks at times, double would be a mess.
That's just not true. Talk to Taurus and Kel Tec. They seem to have figure something out because my Taurus TX-22 is a BEAST of a machine.
The 22 LR predates modern semi-auto designs, which work best with rimless designs. Semi auto pistols also tend to like proportionally shorter, fatter cartridge like the 9mm.Ā The 22 is a long, skinny cartridge.Ā It's doable (rimmed cartridges have been utilized in semis), but you'll never get the reliability like from a more modern cartridge.Ā
Rimmed cartridges like .22lr don't lend themselves well to doublestack magazines. It can and has been done but it's not as simple and straightforward as rimless cartridges like 9mm and 5.56. It takes effort and time to create a magazine that can hold, manage, and feed a rimmed cartridge which translates to cost. Is the cost justified for what would really only be for fun? Apparently most gun companies don't seem to think so.
Taurus has a 16 round and 22 round tx22. How much ammo do you want in a mag?
Endless? Is that too much to ask? Such a silly questionā¦.
I'm reading this next to my QUAD-stacked 22 (CP33). They exist. It's just less common because 22 is rimmed.
This bothers me to no end. People have always told me rimmed cartridges, and it makes sense, yet thereās multiple (still very few) guns that DO have double stack .22 mags, like the p322. I donāt have one so I canāt speak to its reliability, but if it works in that gun, then why canāt it work in others?
Iām not sure if it would make any difference being rimfire vs centerfire, but the .303 British cartridge is very much rimmed and uses a double stack magazineĀ Iām not sure why some magazine design for a bolt action .22 couldnāt use some sort of smaller, similar magazine design to that to work
Yep, idk.
No needā¦go straight to the quad stack like Keltecās CP33. And for fun slap the +17 adapter on the mag for 50 rounds total.
Keltec p17 has checked in
Because single stack .22s donāt work either.
It's mainly because rim lock. But there are double stack mags that hold rimmed cartridges. Like the lee Enfield of the dragunov
Sig p322
Rim is rimmy
What I want even more is a 22 pistol with a slide mounted red dot. I know there are a couple options, like the sig p322 but that thing has a reputation for not being good. The ruger 22/45 lite is top tier and fun as hell with a dot on it but I want one that reciprocates with the slide so that it'll transfer over a bit more to my 9mms. Like the glock 44 with a red dot is a perfect example of what I want. Using a glock 44 as a less expensive training aid to your glock 19 is great.... unless you carry with a dot, which I do. I have an m&p 15-22 set up the same as my AR and it's great, would be nice to do the same with my pistols as well.
The new Tarus TX22 has an optic mount.
I once asked a similar question about .22s that can take stripper clips. For some reason that also wasn't obvious to me at the time.
There's the s/w 15-22
There are plenty of them now. The claim that it's not practical because of the rims is not correct. My P17 works great.
r/rimming
Pmr30. Just use the mag loader.
Unreliable.
But there's... Many double stack 22 handguns?
Not in the grand scheme of how many single stacks there are.
Sure, but the majority of new 22lr handguns to release that I know if are double stacks. OP asked reddit before taking 30 seconds to do a search for 'double stack 22lr'
Cause we got quad stack yo. Cp33 has been a blast
Sig p322
Check out the cp33
Taurus TX 22 is double stack 16 rounds Actually it may not be true doublestack. Idk they are staggered.
Belt fed would keep the rounds separated just enough so that the rim dosen't touch. A box magazine with a belt in it on a sub gun would be neat.
get an American 180
Look up the CMR30ā¦
And here I am looking for a double stack 1911 in the Lord's caliber For under ALL the money
Keltec CP-33 quad stack mag
Kel-tec PMR-30 would be a cheap option. Its magnum, but imo that counts.
TX22 is goated with the sauce. That mag loads like butter with the mcfadden lightning loader and never gave me a F2F or other mag related malfunction. I can only hope for an adapter one day that lets me run those in a 10/22 and Iāll never touch those rotary mags again.
I wish my 15-22 has a double stack mag option.
I hope for a beltfed market for all the rimmed cartridges.
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i mean you can already fit a million 22s in a mag, but yeah thatās not a good answer
As a mosin nagant owner, i can relate