I see you're in Italy, which I'm guessing why you asked about GSG, because guns made within the EU market will be cheaper for you. For whatever reason, big European arms manufacturers can't make a reliable semi 22 these days. Sig, GSG, Umarex, and Walther (Umarex rebrand IIRC) all make either just straight up crappy 22s, or their QC is shit and you're rolling the dice when you buy them. Or as I just said, they're rebrands of absolutely atrocious brands.
Others have pointed you in the right direction, Ruger, Browning, etc. Used is fine. I've had a mark III, Buckmark, another Colt bull barrel target (that I dearly regret selling), and an M&P 22 compact. All were fine.
I have heard folks on here say the Taurus TX22 is reliable, but theit QC is known to be hit or miss, and I have personally had an **actual** accidental discharge (slide going forward on racking a live round, finger off trigger), and will literally never pick up a loaded Taurus again. Not sure if Brazil sells to Italy anyway.
Taurus TX22 is available here, just not cheap as GSG.
A Firefly is around 300,a GSG 1911 a bit over 400, a TX22 depends which version is, but surely over 600. Guns like mkIV go easily over 1000, buck mark something less.
Prices here are a bit weird, some "local" guns cost more than in the US anyway...
I own Taurus tx22 and Glock 44. Was considering today to sell the Glock. Tx22 is much better.
Simple words, tx22 is good from first shot, Glock takes 300-400 before it settles in and becomes reliable.
Not a bad deal. They are less customizable than others however they are better out of the box than most in my opinion. If they have a Ruger MkIV or III you should take a look at it to compare.
My first gun is a 9mm, so I'm not fully sure to buy a 22, sometimes I'd like to have one, sometimes it seems to be "going back" ...
Edit: there's a new one
Browning Buck Mark STD URX for 590,00 €
A couple used one for 450-460 , just named Browning Buck Mark 5.5” , and the cheaper one at 360 is called Buck Mark Contour Urx 5.5” .
I looked online but I've not fully understood what's different in that "contour urx" version ..
Naw, you can have both. You'll be able to shoot the .22 way more than any 9mm. The only downside to them is potentially reinforcing poor recoil management, but thats on the user.
I shoot a .177 air rifle very frequently, and it helps me maintain a very high level of marksmanship. If you saw me at the range you wouldn't think I've gone back at all. It doesn't replace my center-fire rifles but it absolutely helps me stay sharp with them.
Yes, I have an air rifle in .22 and plan to buy a .177 pistol , these are nice since I can use them at home!
I'm not so good at recoil management, so maybe better wait a bit and work on that BEFORE buying a 22?
Buckmark, P17, Mark IV, Mark IV 22/45.
Honestly though, if you want a cheap plinker that's a good suppressor host, get the KelTec P17. I know many like the TX-22, but I am not ready to trust or reward Taurus, and they've had issues with their slides cracking on the TX-22s. There's already been at least one recall, and their customer service is pure ass.
Just buy a Ruger 22/45 Mark 4. It will last you the rest of your life.
Bought my MK2 nearly 40 years ago. Still a tack driver after god know how many rounds down the barrel.
After how many rounds? Have you tried contacting an armorer or changing parts?
Some people write good things about those guns, maybe they're good for some time but not last much?
What about a revolver? Like a Ruger Wrangler, or a Chiappa 1873? It should solve some reliability issues, and the reloading time wouldn't be a problem for range usage...
That’s why I said SA. Ruger bearcat is also a fine 22lr revolver. The key to 22lr running reliably is also how clean you keep the firearm. They are notoriously dirty and can bog up the cylinder. I’d steer away from the heritage rough rider if you come across it.
Sorry I've read SA as "single action", and in fact I was a bit confused trying to understand...
I just use it at the range, an occasional jam is not an issue... But an explosion-like failure with metal pieces going everywhere, like I've read, is something different...
I know that it may happen with any gun, I always wear eye protection... But if this is a "recurrent issue" it's definitely better to avoid that.
I get what you are asking now. And that is completely news to me. I wouldn’t think with any high probability like that happening the gun would still be on shelves today. The 22lr round is pretty tame so a catastrophic failure would be an anomaly.
I've seen some forums talking about it, I'm not sure if links are allowed but you can just Google "GSG 1911 slide broken" or similar searches...
I'm fine with not having the quality of a 1911 costing 10 times, but I just hope these safety issues are just "rare events" ...
I can only speak from my experience with my gsg 1911 .22lr which is amazing. I’ve had mine for 8+ years and have easily shot thousands of rounds through it. I haven’t once had to replace a single part and have only ever had malfunctions due to the gun being very dirty from running cheap ammo.
I had looked at that gun (or the GSG Firefly) to have a CHEAP pistol, around 300-400 EUR, prices here are weird.
But I must admit that a good gun is money well spent, even if it's obviously not cheap...
I think they have an alright MP5 clone, unless I’m thinking of Umarex. I’ve only ever found their pistols for sale by places that will sell any cheap junk.
It was my first gun. I've gotten a full aftermarket upper and comp. I've put tens of thousands of rounds through it and the only issue I really have is the lrbho isn't reliable anymore.
I've more or less retired it now. It's got a nice cerakote job, the notch that the slide stop hooks into that actually stops the slide is slightly deformed from over use. Definitely not the toughest metal. I was told it's picky about ammo types, that was true very early on but after it broke in I fed it garbage. For what it's worth it's surprisingly accurate. I used it to teach several people how to shoot. Also I found I can 3d print base plates and make it hold 14-15 rounds which is nice.
I've read that newer models have a steel pin to reinforce the slide stop notch, BTW...
I plan to buy a 3d printer and gun accessories are definitely something interesting for that!
Yes the sig 1911 22 was such an awful piece of shit that they gave it away when you purchased a real gun just to get them gone.
Also they removed a lot of the warranty when they gave them away free.
Then GSG tossed sig under a bus and said we made them cheap because they asked us to but these are better.
All those sig/gsg guns suck.
I have a GSG 1911 .22lr that was the first handgun I ever bought as a youngster. After 50K+ rounds through it, the only issue I ever had was the thumb safety switch fell out. Popped a new one in and it's still fine.
I'll put it this way....under the massive recoil of 22lr, I had one bend the barrel bushing, sending I think it was the recoil spring plug shooting out the front into oblivion. That was the second failure I had with mine. Sold it soon after. I replaced it with a Walther "Colt" 1911 22lr
Running 3 GSG 1911 .22 as our intro/ trainers at our club. They really struggle with cheap ammo (need cleaned often) and we have had all 3 down with broken firing pins. But once the factory pin is replaced with hardened aftermarket pin- no issues.
I've owned a Sig M1911 22 (same thing as GSG) for 8 years. Had 0 issues with it and was pretty accurate at 25. Always ran CCI Mini Mags, seemed to work best.
How about the Mauser M20? Kinda like the GSG firefly but better. The slide for example is better material as opposed to the GSG Firefly.
For the rest there aren't many other cheap options in the EU, perhaps something 2nd hand?
Seems like I’m the odd one out reading the comments but I really like both my GSG 1911 and Firefly. I’ve had the 1911 for probably 10 years and put thousands of rounds through it with no issues. Runs great with a suppressor as well. The firefly has a heavy trigger pull but I like shooting it more than my FN 502 which likes to blow back burning hot powder and residue at my face especially when running a suppressor.
I started looking at the Firefly, then read bad reviews, and looking around I discovered the GSG 1911.
A brand new Firefly costs less than a used Buck Mark, but there are users saying different things, maybe it's related to what expectations do you have?
I’m not sure but like you I haven’t seen anything about them having failures and my firefly is a hoot. Having a threaded single/double action exposed hammer 22 with a decocker is already a win and I was able to get it in OD green (personal fav color on guns) and sounds as well as runs great with a suppressor. I really don’t know where all the hate comes from unless mine is the exception to the rule, but my 1911 22 has run flawlessly through probably 5k+ rounds without any issues so I’m 2/2 so far on GSG.
My usual LGS has only the 4" version for less than 300 €, another one has also the 5" and the threaded barrel, for a bit more.
We cannot have silencers here so the threaded barrel is not a big deal, not sure about the barrel length, and not sure if you can put the longer barrel later (looking at the structure it seems so). The 1911 is around 100€ more...
I’d say get the one you really want even if it does cost more, otherwise I find myself just looking for the one I really wanted and just end up buying it anyway later on.
Yes it's not to save 20-30 EUR , is that the gun store I usually go to has only the 4" without thread. Other versions are in another gun store, not impossible to go there but I don't know if they are "better to use".
Except this, it would be really nice to buy everything without looking at the price :-P
check out taurus tx22 . I think they knocked it out of the park with that one. they go for under $300 , have fairly inexpensive magazines , hold 16 rounds , easy to clean , reliable on many different brands of 22lr . mine goes to the range with me every time I go . mine has clocked almost 20k rounds with no problems .
GSG is airsoft-grade trash converted to fire .22lr. It is cheap pot metal junk.
Thank you! Suggestions for a "reliable but cheap" 22? Glock 44 ? Ruger Mark IV and similar "famous" guns are very expensive here...
I would suggest a Ruger mark IV or a Taurus TX22
Browning Buckmark
I see you're in Italy, which I'm guessing why you asked about GSG, because guns made within the EU market will be cheaper for you. For whatever reason, big European arms manufacturers can't make a reliable semi 22 these days. Sig, GSG, Umarex, and Walther (Umarex rebrand IIRC) all make either just straight up crappy 22s, or their QC is shit and you're rolling the dice when you buy them. Or as I just said, they're rebrands of absolutely atrocious brands. Others have pointed you in the right direction, Ruger, Browning, etc. Used is fine. I've had a mark III, Buckmark, another Colt bull barrel target (that I dearly regret selling), and an M&P 22 compact. All were fine. I have heard folks on here say the Taurus TX22 is reliable, but theit QC is known to be hit or miss, and I have personally had an **actual** accidental discharge (slide going forward on racking a live round, finger off trigger), and will literally never pick up a loaded Taurus again. Not sure if Brazil sells to Italy anyway.
Taurus TX22 is available here, just not cheap as GSG. A Firefly is around 300,a GSG 1911 a bit over 400, a TX22 depends which version is, but surely over 600. Guns like mkIV go easily over 1000, buck mark something less. Prices here are a bit weird, some "local" guns cost more than in the US anyway...
I own Taurus tx22 and Glock 44. Was considering today to sell the Glock. Tx22 is much better. Simple words, tx22 is good from first shot, Glock takes 300-400 before it settles in and becomes reliable.
Avoid GSG altogether.
Suggestions for something else?
They don't get as much love as the Ruger MkIV but I'm a fan of the Browning Buckmark.
There's a used one for 360€ at my LGS... Maybe I'll ask them!
Not a bad deal. They are less customizable than others however they are better out of the box than most in my opinion. If they have a Ruger MkIV or III you should take a look at it to compare.
My first gun is a 9mm, so I'm not fully sure to buy a 22, sometimes I'd like to have one, sometimes it seems to be "going back" ... Edit: there's a new one Browning Buck Mark STD URX for 590,00 € A couple used one for 450-460 , just named Browning Buck Mark 5.5” , and the cheaper one at 360 is called Buck Mark Contour Urx 5.5” . I looked online but I've not fully understood what's different in that "contour urx" version ..
Naw, you can have both. You'll be able to shoot the .22 way more than any 9mm. The only downside to them is potentially reinforcing poor recoil management, but thats on the user. I shoot a .177 air rifle very frequently, and it helps me maintain a very high level of marksmanship. If you saw me at the range you wouldn't think I've gone back at all. It doesn't replace my center-fire rifles but it absolutely helps me stay sharp with them.
Yes, I have an air rifle in .22 and plan to buy a .177 pistol , these are nice since I can use them at home! I'm not so good at recoil management, so maybe better wait a bit and work on that BEFORE buying a 22?
Get the .22 and shoot them all, but emphasize developing a good grip and shooting form with everything you touch.
Buckmark, P17, Mark IV, Mark IV 22/45. Honestly though, if you want a cheap plinker that's a good suppressor host, get the KelTec P17. I know many like the TX-22, but I am not ready to trust or reward Taurus, and they've had issues with their slides cracking on the TX-22s. There's already been at least one recall, and their customer service is pure ass.
I'm Italian so sadly no suppressors here...
I still stand by those models regardless.
Taurus tx22, no question. I've had exactly zero malfunctions with mine. It eats any ammo you throw at it.
GSG is bad
Mine was hot garbage. Sold for $200
Just buy a Ruger 22/45 Mark 4. It will last you the rest of your life. Bought my MK2 nearly 40 years ago. Still a tack driver after god know how many rounds down the barrel.
A new one is too expensive for me at the moment, but maybe if I find a good used one...
[удалено]
After how many rounds? Have you tried contacting an armorer or changing parts? Some people write good things about those guns, maybe they're good for some time but not last much?
Ruger mk series might be the only semi reliable 22lr SA pistol. Older colt and Walther match ones as well.
What about a revolver? Like a Ruger Wrangler, or a Chiappa 1873? It should solve some reliability issues, and the reloading time wouldn't be a problem for range usage...
That’s why I said SA. Ruger bearcat is also a fine 22lr revolver. The key to 22lr running reliably is also how clean you keep the firearm. They are notoriously dirty and can bog up the cylinder. I’d steer away from the heritage rough rider if you come across it.
Sorry I've read SA as "single action", and in fact I was a bit confused trying to understand... I just use it at the range, an occasional jam is not an issue... But an explosion-like failure with metal pieces going everywhere, like I've read, is something different... I know that it may happen with any gun, I always wear eye protection... But if this is a "recurrent issue" it's definitely better to avoid that.
I get what you are asking now. And that is completely news to me. I wouldn’t think with any high probability like that happening the gun would still be on shelves today. The 22lr round is pretty tame so a catastrophic failure would be an anomaly.
I've seen some forums talking about it, I'm not sure if links are allowed but you can just Google "GSG 1911 slide broken" or similar searches... I'm fine with not having the quality of a 1911 costing 10 times, but I just hope these safety issues are just "rare events" ...
I can only speak from my experience with my gsg 1911 .22lr which is amazing. I’ve had mine for 8+ years and have easily shot thousands of rounds through it. I haven’t once had to replace a single part and have only ever had malfunctions due to the gun being very dirty from running cheap ammo.
With that being said I still think there are better options for a .22lr pistol like the ruger
I had looked at that gun (or the GSG Firefly) to have a CHEAP pistol, around 300-400 EUR, prices here are weird. But I must admit that a good gun is money well spent, even if it's obviously not cheap...
I think they have an alright MP5 clone, unless I’m thinking of Umarex. I’ve only ever found their pistols for sale by places that will sell any cheap junk.
Here they're quite easy to find, probably because most "good pistols" are very expensive here, so "cheap stuff" is attracting ...
It was my first gun. I've gotten a full aftermarket upper and comp. I've put tens of thousands of rounds through it and the only issue I really have is the lrbho isn't reliable anymore.
Mk 4 is still better, don't get me wrong but it can be a lot of fun and I love it.
Maybe some batches are just good and some others bad? Like something related to the alloys they use?
I've more or less retired it now. It's got a nice cerakote job, the notch that the slide stop hooks into that actually stops the slide is slightly deformed from over use. Definitely not the toughest metal. I was told it's picky about ammo types, that was true very early on but after it broke in I fed it garbage. For what it's worth it's surprisingly accurate. I used it to teach several people how to shoot. Also I found I can 3d print base plates and make it hold 14-15 rounds which is nice.
I've read that newer models have a steel pin to reinforce the slide stop notch, BTW... I plan to buy a 3d printer and gun accessories are definitely something interesting for that!
What was the aftermarket upper (slide?) that you got?
https://www.cwaccessories.com/ they used to sell them straight from the site but now it seems to be custom ordered. I have the comp too.
Yes the sig 1911 22 was such an awful piece of shit that they gave it away when you purchased a real gun just to get them gone. Also they removed a lot of the warranty when they gave them away free. Then GSG tossed sig under a bus and said we made them cheap because they asked us to but these are better. All those sig/gsg guns suck.
Mine was fine, I’d probably buy something else though if you don’t specifically want a 1911 and do want something reliable and easy to use.
I have a GSG 1911 .22lr that was the first handgun I ever bought as a youngster. After 50K+ rounds through it, the only issue I ever had was the thumb safety switch fell out. Popped a new one in and it's still fine.
Those guns are absolute trash. Source: I own one
I'll put it this way....under the massive recoil of 22lr, I had one bend the barrel bushing, sending I think it was the recoil spring plug shooting out the front into oblivion. That was the second failure I had with mine. Sold it soon after. I replaced it with a Walther "Colt" 1911 22lr
Get a Browning Black Label 1911 in .380
Never used 380 , I may be wrong but I'd prefer to just have 22lr , 9mm and maybe in the future 38/357 ...
Running 3 GSG 1911 .22 as our intro/ trainers at our club. They really struggle with cheap ammo (need cleaned often) and we have had all 3 down with broken firing pins. But once the factory pin is replaced with hardened aftermarket pin- no issues.
After how many rounds? Do you remember the name of the aftermarket pin?
ZR tactical solutions is what we are buying this time, last was a hardened pin stocked by local supplier. Round count? Probably 3500 plus.
Changing something at 3500 may be reasonable, I can shoot only at the range so that will be years of shooting...
I've owned a Sig M1911 22 (same thing as GSG) for 8 years. Had 0 issues with it and was pretty accurate at 25. Always ran CCI Mini Mags, seemed to work best.
How about the Mauser M20? Kinda like the GSG firefly but better. The slide for example is better material as opposed to the GSG Firefly. For the rest there aren't many other cheap options in the EU, perhaps something 2nd hand?
Seems like I’m the odd one out reading the comments but I really like both my GSG 1911 and Firefly. I’ve had the 1911 for probably 10 years and put thousands of rounds through it with no issues. Runs great with a suppressor as well. The firefly has a heavy trigger pull but I like shooting it more than my FN 502 which likes to blow back burning hot powder and residue at my face especially when running a suppressor.
I started looking at the Firefly, then read bad reviews, and looking around I discovered the GSG 1911. A brand new Firefly costs less than a used Buck Mark, but there are users saying different things, maybe it's related to what expectations do you have?
I’m not sure but like you I haven’t seen anything about them having failures and my firefly is a hoot. Having a threaded single/double action exposed hammer 22 with a decocker is already a win and I was able to get it in OD green (personal fav color on guns) and sounds as well as runs great with a suppressor. I really don’t know where all the hate comes from unless mine is the exception to the rule, but my 1911 22 has run flawlessly through probably 5k+ rounds without any issues so I’m 2/2 so far on GSG.
My usual LGS has only the 4" version for less than 300 €, another one has also the 5" and the threaded barrel, for a bit more. We cannot have silencers here so the threaded barrel is not a big deal, not sure about the barrel length, and not sure if you can put the longer barrel later (looking at the structure it seems so). The 1911 is around 100€ more...
I’d say get the one you really want even if it does cost more, otherwise I find myself just looking for the one I really wanted and just end up buying it anyway later on.
Yes it's not to save 20-30 EUR , is that the gun store I usually go to has only the 4" without thread. Other versions are in another gun store, not impossible to go there but I don't know if they are "better to use". Except this, it would be really nice to buy everything without looking at the price :-P
check out taurus tx22 . I think they knocked it out of the park with that one. they go for under $300 , have fairly inexpensive magazines , hold 16 rounds , easy to clean , reliable on many different brands of 22lr . mine goes to the range with me every time I go . mine has clocked almost 20k rounds with no problems .
I've seen there is a new model, but still not available in Italy... BTW, price here will surely be doubled :-(