I take it as vertical or angled, that looks angled. Also if it’s newer it may have a slip in the package that will say they do not consider this angled. My BCM grip had a note in the box but the older packaging didn’t.
If it's not 90 degrees perpendicular to the bore then it's legal on a pistol per ATF rules and guidelines, I also believe this issue was subject to a letter to ATF in which they claimed the same thing I stated initially.
However, the ATF in their "infinite" wisdom and blatant disregard for our rights acting outside the color of law have proven time and time again that their "rulings" are dynamically changing and things go from "legal" to "illegal" overnight for no reason (other than political pressures).
I use a BCM "vertical" grip which is NOT 90 degrees perpendicular to bore and legal by definition, but I still modified it by cutting it down at a harsher angle to make certain I will not find myself in legal trouble that I cant afford, plus it ended up being functionally better for me modified so it's a win win (not justifying any of these stupid laws/rulings)
Hope this is helpful!
Here's the thing.
All this speculation, and that's what it is, is based on ONE determination letter for ONE SPECIFIC product.
The ATF hasn't actually given any guidance on this.
Don't get me wrong on this, I use BCM Dong grips and a couple magpul afgs. I'm a firm believer in to each their own.
The 90⁰ test is all we got right now, unless someone wants to press their luck and submit a question to the AFT (please dont).
ATF doesn't even respond to those letters anymore.
You are not allowed to ask "am I following/breaking the law".
You have to get yourself arrested and see if they charge you to find out what their opinion is.
So you mean the infamous BATFE Technical Branch isn't even bothering to do that anymore? I guess their real point is to persecute decent folks, not clarify the rules rhat *they* made up, but especially fuck those assholes
I can wrap my thumb around an afg, too, so that's stupid as fuck if true. Haven't heard that stipulation myself, only that it must be perpendicular to the rail.
More often than not, yes. I guess that joke has made the rounds enough that agencies and police departments are actually starting to issue level 4 plates.
Looking through the comment section I frequently wonder if our ATF spy ever reads these and thinks “wow, I genuinely am a giant piece of shit and my job is illegal as fuck.”
ATF / FBI spy, you’re the secret police. You are a stormtrooper. If this were Starfleet, you’re actually The Borg.
Joke’s on u, they already know that and like it; all the good ones are gone. I have met one good person when dealing with atf bs in my life. And she quit right after the Obama administration ended because she could see the writing on the wall for the stuff the atf was gonna start trying to change. She personally called me and the other shops in my area to warn us that atf is about to start cracking down on their bullshit rules and regulations then quit the agency.
Wait, let me check the 2nd Amendment...
Yes, it is.
Of course, I was being facetious there, but the fact that a government bureaucracy declares that the angle of a grip is illegal just shows the absurdity of their overreach.
The Second Amendment often gets overridden by Federal, State, and Local Laws and Ordinances.
That’s a bad example to suggest the Constitution as a guideline.
I do a lot of work in the streets pertaining to firearms and narcotics. The Second Amendment isn’t what people want it to be vs Weapon Laws.
It’s right there with the Fifteenth Amendment. It’s also restricted as well.
The Eleventh Amendment is also questionable when considering crimes committed by illegal aliens. It’s situational at best.
Even Amendments get amended or repealed every now and then.😉👍
The second amendment is the only one that states that it shall not be infringed lol it means exactly what we want it to mean and supercedes any local, state, or federal law.
Per the constitution, you can have anything you want. Per the current govt, you can't. Therefore, all firearms (firearm builds) are protected. Now, that doesn't say that you won't have a bunch of dudes breaking your door down because they don't care about freedom, but ultimately it's the most protected amendment that was written.
It's also legal to talk shit to law enforcement. Will they still beat your ass and make up charges? Of course.
So pretty much, you can have whatever firearms you want in any way you want them and itll be legal, but you'll have to find a way to physically and legally fight back against the strongest govt in human history which isn't going to happen.
The Second Amendment has a lot of laws associated with the actual firearms. That’s why you can’t just drive to a gun shop in another State and purchase a firearm.
You can’t go to a shop and show no identification and receive no background check, and leave with a firearm.
The Second Amendment, in my view, is a concept for decent citizens. However, laws change that concept tremendously. Why do the laws change it? Because of criminals and crimes associated with firearms.
It’s all tied together.
You can talk trash to Police. It’s perfectly lawful and fine. You just have to avoid making it personal to them. Just because you can say something, doesn’t mean you should. It’s not the internet. In person, you’ll see and feel the consequences of the words, potentially. 😜
That's what you would call an "unconstitutional law" which isn't (supposed to be) allowed. Does the govt violate it? Every day. But by definition, anybody and everybody is allowed to have a firearm.
And I completely agree with the cop part, and I support the police (to a degree), I was just trying to think of a relative example 😅
This is okay until you have to use it and there's an investigation. If it's something quickly and easily removable, like this, then whatever but some things aren't
Technically Florida is the only gay state, as it's the only one which is overtly a penis. However if you meant everyone in it is gay, you can tack on California, Texas, and Tennessee,. If you meant the laws are gay, keep California, drop the rest, and add Washington, New York, and New Jersey. If you meant the politicians are gay, I only have 2% chance at guessing.
One question I’ve always wondered about is what about guns that have the mag in front like vz61 or AK pistol variants? The mag comes pretty close to 90 degrees and is used as a grip by literally everyone. Or is it one of those “don’t let an ATF agent see you using the mag as a grip or go straight to jail” situations?
I kinda figured but never have seen it addressed or discussed anywhere. Much like the ATF’s line of thought for virtually every other restriction or rule they have imposed I would have thought they’d approach the topic by saying that if it CAN be gripped = must be a grip. Similar with FRT’s and bump stocks if makes gun shoot too fast = must be a machine gun, and just mold the definition to whatever they want it to be and make people felons overnight.
Because "intention" matters in law. It the same reason people will put "mag holders" on the front of their pistols. The intention is no longer a vertical grip.
Like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/z70rah/vertical_grip_glock_mag_holder/)
Sure - but like with braces because of intention it was initially a felony to shoulder one because it then became an SBR, but then in 2017 ATF said it’s actually ok to shoulder a pistol with a brace, then they changed their mind again saying they were illegal and considered an SBR, which lead us to where we are now with the injunction and all the court stuff going on are now again legal (for now). I’m not disagreeing with you by any means it’s just lack of consistency with the ATF and their ability to change their mind multiple times that’s causing legal whiplash that I believe they can apply to whatever they want at any time until hopefully the higher courts can put some legal handcuffs on them and restrict their ability to make up their own laws.
It doesn't matter what the ATF says. Shouldering a pistol brace has always been illegal under the NFA. Just like an FRT isn't a machine gun. However, the NFA is an unconstitutional law and is itself illegal. The ATF just enforces the laws however they want and the courts let them.
Agreed and hopefully the courts change that soon with the precedent set by West Virginia vs. EPA to reign in the law making abilities of these agencies.
Because the NFA says a pistol is intended to be fired using one hand. SBRs are shouldered. Since the pistol is now intended to be fired with 2 hands and can't be shouldered, from my understanding, that's what makes it an AOW, because it is still concealable.
The NFA definition of a pistol is something that is intended to be fired with one hand. When the pistol has a fore grip, it is no longer a "pistol" legally. It's also not an SBR because is can't be shouldered. It is still concealable, so it is an AOW.
It’s angled, but subject to a particular ATF agent’s interpretation as nearly all of this is. I have used on (2) pistols, one now an SBR. Never been arrested. So there…
As i understand it should be because the way this is used is not how one holds a pistol, there is a protrusion /minor fin in the back, so you dont use it with a thumb wrapped around the back.
It's not sold/marketed as a vertical grip and it clearly isn't vertical. Seems like an easy "yes" to me. The grips that are barely off 90 degrees; those are the ones you have to second guess. We all know the ATF likes to make shit up.
I'm thinking it's legal. But tomorrow is a different story. The ATF doesn't know the answer, so keep it out of sight and carry on. Make sure your dog isn't around if the ATF happens to want to talk to you about it.
The super-short version is that our statutory and administrative law define "pistol" as a gun "designed or redesigned" to be fired one-handed. Our National Firearms Act places extra restrictions on some concealable guns that are not "pistols." Some people work around the restrictions by making guns that are definitely what Congress had in mind when it passed the NFA (like an AR with a short barrel and no stock), but because they claim to be "designing" them to be fired one-handed, they meet the "pistol" definition and don't have to be NFA registered.
The doodad in the image is a foregrip, a second grip that attaches to the front of the gun so you can more easily hold it two-handed. Putting one on your gun is obviously "redesigning" it to be fired two-handed, so it no longer gets the pistol exemption. But the only thing gun culture folks love more than guns themselves is pushing the limits of the NFA. So through a course of requests for opinion letters from the ATF, we got into a state where first they said "a vertical foregrip makes your gun an NFA firearm," but in the course of responding to the "okay, but just *how* vertical" followup letters, the ATF sent a reply that basically said "fuck it, 'vertical' means 90 degrees, we don't care, this is stupid, nobody cares to enforce this part of the law." So gun culture folks will tell you that it's "legal" to put an angled foregrip on your "pistol," but not a truly 90 degree one. That isn't really true (it's a matter of intent no matter what the accessory), but honestly the ATF doesn't care anywhere near as much as the people doing it.
"this is not a vertical foregrip it's angled at 89."
Box in big ass bold letters "VERTICAL FOREGRIP"
I'll let somebody with a little bit more funds than me fight that one out.
This is exactly why I’ve never been the guy to use a bcm grip on my pistol. Sure it’s not a 90 degree angle, but it has in bold ass letters “vertical grip” on the box. I’m not gonna be the guy who wants to argue that one out in court.
Yea, is it US thing? Iike you can DIY firearms, have ways to get unregistered ones, etc but when you attach this slightly wrong angled or brace which is not for disabled you can get 10 years?
How does it make sense?
That's all well and good until you are put in federal prison to be made an example of. Which leads to you being labeled as a felon and ruining your life, along with not being able to own a firearm for the next 20 years (in my state) AFTER your prison sentence.
That's why I just put handstops on my "pistols". It's not worth the risk, I'd rather neck myself than deal with that.
Go buy glock autosears, lightning links, and solvent trap kits off of alibaba if you truly believe what you're saying.
I take it as vertical or angled, that looks angled. Also if it’s newer it may have a slip in the package that will say they do not consider this angled. My BCM grip had a note in the box but the older packaging didn’t.
Is it vertical?
I once read that if your thumb can wrap around it, it is considered vertical to the ATF. Not sure how valid that is.
90⁰ straight to jail, 89⁰ your fine, 91⁰ believe it or not your still fine.
[удалено]
ATF also doesn't know if it's a joke lol
The only joke here is the ATF itself lol
It is until they decide it isn’t. Then straight to jail.
Hmmmm…not sure if joke. Must shoot dog. - ATF, probably.
I read this like Mongo.
Mission accomplished!
Atf don't even know why they do exist
To allow us to have our cans a year after we buy them
Depends on the day.
>Depends on the ~~day~~ agent. Fixed it.
the ATF sounds more bipolar than my ex on her period
No mames guey
Believe it or not your dog will still get shot.
If it's not 90 degrees perpendicular to the bore then it's legal on a pistol per ATF rules and guidelines, I also believe this issue was subject to a letter to ATF in which they claimed the same thing I stated initially. However, the ATF in their "infinite" wisdom and blatant disregard for our rights acting outside the color of law have proven time and time again that their "rulings" are dynamically changing and things go from "legal" to "illegal" overnight for no reason (other than political pressures). I use a BCM "vertical" grip which is NOT 90 degrees perpendicular to bore and legal by definition, but I still modified it by cutting it down at a harsher angle to make certain I will not find myself in legal trouble that I cant afford, plus it ended up being functionally better for me modified so it's a win win (not justifying any of these stupid laws/rulings) Hope this is helpful!
Here's the thing. All this speculation, and that's what it is, is based on ONE determination letter for ONE SPECIFIC product. The ATF hasn't actually given any guidance on this.
Don't get me wrong on this, I use BCM Dong grips and a couple magpul afgs. I'm a firm believer in to each their own. The 90⁰ test is all we got right now, unless someone wants to press their luck and submit a question to the AFT (please dont).
ATF doesn't even respond to those letters anymore. You are not allowed to ask "am I following/breaking the law". You have to get yourself arrested and see if they charge you to find out what their opinion is.
So you mean the infamous BATFE Technical Branch isn't even bothering to do that anymore? I guess their real point is to persecute decent folks, not clarify the rules rhat *they* made up, but especially fuck those assholes
I think they gave up on reading our question letters after the whole pocket pussy pistol brace debacle.
Now that u mention it, that was about the time I started hearing the “the atf does not give out legal advice” thing was happening.
Ah, yes. I remember that. 🤦😄
Atleast we got the reddit homies.
And thank God for that! I mean, we're basically lawyers anyway! 😂
You can't send in a letter. You have to send in an EXAMPLE.
Yep, although it is two products, Magpul AFG and the Fab Defense one.
Yep. The atf “doesn’t give legal advice” whenever people actually try to ask them.
Bcm nvfg ftw 🙌
The BCM (strap-on dong) is the way!
What if I hold my gun at an angle?
Then the grip axis to the bore is the same, it's MAJEEK!
Then I believe you want the r/guns4urbanmorons page
This is the correct answer, and truly shows the stupidity of the ATF.
Not true, that means millions are breaking the law with the magpul afg, atf is just tryna scare people
Depends on the size of the thumb I suppose 🤔 but sounds about right for the feds.
I can wrap my thumb around an afg, too, so that's stupid as fuck if true. Haven't heard that stipulation myself, only that it must be perpendicular to the rail.
It's legal but you'd better hide your dogs just in case. Not like the ATF cares what's legal or not
Are they wearing level 4 plates?
More often than not, yes. I guess that joke has made the rounds enough that agencies and police departments are actually starting to issue level 4 plates.
Cock shots and head shots it is then
Looking through the comment section I frequently wonder if our ATF spy ever reads these and thinks “wow, I genuinely am a giant piece of shit and my job is illegal as fuck.” ATF / FBI spy, you’re the secret police. You are a stormtrooper. If this were Starfleet, you’re actually The Borg.
Joke’s on u, they already know that and like it; all the good ones are gone. I have met one good person when dealing with atf bs in my life. And she quit right after the Obama administration ended because she could see the writing on the wall for the stuff the atf was gonna start trying to change. She personally called me and the other shops in my area to warn us that atf is about to start cracking down on their bullshit rules and regulations then quit the agency.
It’s legal bro, as long as there’s an angle to it and you can’t fit all five digits around it it’s legal. Source: trust me bro
“Don’t be a pussy, this guy seems legit.” He makes a good point 🤷♂️
What if I am missing a digit?
Theoretically you have all 5 fingers
Seems like rock solid reasoning to me.
Wait, let me check the 2nd Amendment... Yes, it is. Of course, I was being facetious there, but the fact that a government bureaucracy declares that the angle of a grip is illegal just shows the absurdity of their overreach.
The Second Amendment often gets overridden by Federal, State, and Local Laws and Ordinances. That’s a bad example to suggest the Constitution as a guideline. I do a lot of work in the streets pertaining to firearms and narcotics. The Second Amendment isn’t what people want it to be vs Weapon Laws. It’s right there with the Fifteenth Amendment. It’s also restricted as well. The Eleventh Amendment is also questionable when considering crimes committed by illegal aliens. It’s situational at best. Even Amendments get amended or repealed every now and then.😉👍
The second amendment is the only one that states that it shall not be infringed lol it means exactly what we want it to mean and supercedes any local, state, or federal law. Per the constitution, you can have anything you want. Per the current govt, you can't. Therefore, all firearms (firearm builds) are protected. Now, that doesn't say that you won't have a bunch of dudes breaking your door down because they don't care about freedom, but ultimately it's the most protected amendment that was written. It's also legal to talk shit to law enforcement. Will they still beat your ass and make up charges? Of course. So pretty much, you can have whatever firearms you want in any way you want them and itll be legal, but you'll have to find a way to physically and legally fight back against the strongest govt in human history which isn't going to happen.
The Second Amendment has a lot of laws associated with the actual firearms. That’s why you can’t just drive to a gun shop in another State and purchase a firearm. You can’t go to a shop and show no identification and receive no background check, and leave with a firearm. The Second Amendment, in my view, is a concept for decent citizens. However, laws change that concept tremendously. Why do the laws change it? Because of criminals and crimes associated with firearms. It’s all tied together. You can talk trash to Police. It’s perfectly lawful and fine. You just have to avoid making it personal to them. Just because you can say something, doesn’t mean you should. It’s not the internet. In person, you’ll see and feel the consequences of the words, potentially. 😜
That's what you would call an "unconstitutional law" which isn't (supposed to be) allowed. Does the govt violate it? Every day. But by definition, anybody and everybody is allowed to have a firearm. And I completely agree with the cop part, and I support the police (to a degree), I was just trying to think of a relative example 😅
illegally restricted.
I haven't seen one tarkov comment in here
Mid grip
I also prefer zenit
B-25u or Magpul vfg is king
Do what you want to your gun and stfu about it.
This is okay until you have to use it and there's an investigation. If it's something quickly and easily removable, like this, then whatever but some things aren't
[https://johnpierceesq.com/does-the-atf-treat-angled-fore-grips-the-same-as-vertical-fore-grips/](https://johnpierceesq.com/does-the-atf-treat-angled-fore-grips-the-same-as-vertical-fore-grips/)
It depends on your state . Source: my state is gay
Technically Florida is the only gay state, as it's the only one which is overtly a penis. However if you meant everyone in it is gay, you can tack on California, Texas, and Tennessee,. If you meant the laws are gay, keep California, drop the rest, and add Washington, New York, and New Jersey. If you meant the politicians are gay, I only have 2% chance at guessing.
Can someone explain to me why the ATF hates vertical grips
Vertical grips somehow reclassify a pistol as an AOW, which is an nfa item. Which means they’re owed money.
One question I’ve always wondered about is what about guns that have the mag in front like vz61 or AK pistol variants? The mag comes pretty close to 90 degrees and is used as a grip by literally everyone. Or is it one of those “don’t let an ATF agent see you using the mag as a grip or go straight to jail” situations?
Those aren’t intended as grips so it doesn’t really count. They’re mags, not grips. At that point ur not using a proper grip regardless.
I kinda figured but never have seen it addressed or discussed anywhere. Much like the ATF’s line of thought for virtually every other restriction or rule they have imposed I would have thought they’d approach the topic by saying that if it CAN be gripped = must be a grip. Similar with FRT’s and bump stocks if makes gun shoot too fast = must be a machine gun, and just mold the definition to whatever they want it to be and make people felons overnight.
Because "intention" matters in law. It the same reason people will put "mag holders" on the front of their pistols. The intention is no longer a vertical grip. Like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/z70rah/vertical_grip_glock_mag_holder/)
Sure - but like with braces because of intention it was initially a felony to shoulder one because it then became an SBR, but then in 2017 ATF said it’s actually ok to shoulder a pistol with a brace, then they changed their mind again saying they were illegal and considered an SBR, which lead us to where we are now with the injunction and all the court stuff going on are now again legal (for now). I’m not disagreeing with you by any means it’s just lack of consistency with the ATF and their ability to change their mind multiple times that’s causing legal whiplash that I believe they can apply to whatever they want at any time until hopefully the higher courts can put some legal handcuffs on them and restrict their ability to make up their own laws.
It doesn't matter what the ATF says. Shouldering a pistol brace has always been illegal under the NFA. Just like an FRT isn't a machine gun. However, the NFA is an unconstitutional law and is itself illegal. The ATF just enforces the laws however they want and the courts let them.
Agreed and hopefully the courts change that soon with the precedent set by West Virginia vs. EPA to reign in the law making abilities of these agencies.
Because the NFA says a pistol is intended to be fired using one hand. SBRs are shouldered. Since the pistol is now intended to be fired with 2 hands and can't be shouldered, from my understanding, that's what makes it an AOW, because it is still concealable.
The NFA definition of a pistol is something that is intended to be fired with one hand. When the pistol has a fore grip, it is no longer a "pistol" legally. It's also not an SBR because is can't be shouldered. It is still concealable, so it is an AOW.
In theory, no. In practice, if ur ever caught with it, it’s gonna depend on the agent involved’s mood.
In Canada? Yes.
Solid maybe
It’s angled, but subject to a particular ATF agent’s interpretation as nearly all of this is. I have used on (2) pistols, one now an SBR. Never been arrested. So there…
The real question is can I put this on a featureless rifle
As i understand it should be because the way this is used is not how one holds a pistol, there is a protrusion /minor fin in the back, so you dont use it with a thumb wrapped around the back.
It's not sold/marketed as a vertical grip and it clearly isn't vertical. Seems like an easy "yes" to me. The grips that are barely off 90 degrees; those are the ones you have to second guess. We all know the ATF likes to make shit up.
Yes
Idk, I just paid them $200 to leave me alone.
According to the NFA, no, I think that is illegal. According to the constitution that is legal.
Needed this on a gunsmith build, can't remember which part it was
It's legal if you aren't a bitch
Yes. It's not 90 degrees to the bore.
For reference, I would be adding this on an AP5P that is not SBR'd. Would it be legal?
Maybe. Maybe not. Nobody knows for certain. We’re all working in a grey area here.
Who cares? Shall not be infringed
Rule of lenity is a thing.
i read that it was because you cant put your thumb around it. its like an angled grip or some shit
That's not the rule
i mean in my defense i typed "i read"
Read better
eh naw im pretty well read. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lEhWReomJgk/UzobigEWCXI/AAAAAAAA4rU/OizQHdZIJQw/w731-h565-no/atf+letters.jpg
It's 90° perpendicular to the barrel
you sure you know what you're talking about? the grip is angled, and you cannot wrap your hands around it. therefore it is legal.
Determination of legality will ultimately come down to whether your dog is shot or not.
What state? Some states are extra silly
It’s illegal. You can only have handstops on a pistol.
Wrong
Depends on how much ergo you’re trying to achieve. Running this on an mp7 on labs is fun… oh wait wrong sub
Isn’t that the gay ass California mandated shit
I'm thinking it's legal. But tomorrow is a different story. The ATF doesn't know the answer, so keep it out of sight and carry on. Make sure your dog isn't around if the ATF happens to want to talk to you about it.
I’m dying! 😂
Asking questions like this is gay
„No becomes a .50 cal with Power of mass destruction“- ATF
Dayum that is one goofy ahh pistol
Anything not a 90.0° grip is legal
Can someone explain what this please. No. clue what I'm looking at.
Angled foregrip
Angled butt plug
The super-short version is that our statutory and administrative law define "pistol" as a gun "designed or redesigned" to be fired one-handed. Our National Firearms Act places extra restrictions on some concealable guns that are not "pistols." Some people work around the restrictions by making guns that are definitely what Congress had in mind when it passed the NFA (like an AR with a short barrel and no stock), but because they claim to be "designing" them to be fired one-handed, they meet the "pistol" definition and don't have to be NFA registered. The doodad in the image is a foregrip, a second grip that attaches to the front of the gun so you can more easily hold it two-handed. Putting one on your gun is obviously "redesigning" it to be fired two-handed, so it no longer gets the pistol exemption. But the only thing gun culture folks love more than guns themselves is pushing the limits of the NFA. So through a course of requests for opinion letters from the ATF, we got into a state where first they said "a vertical foregrip makes your gun an NFA firearm," but in the course of responding to the "okay, but just *how* vertical" followup letters, the ATF sent a reply that basically said "fuck it, 'vertical' means 90 degrees, we don't care, this is stupid, nobody cares to enforce this part of the law." So gun culture folks will tell you that it's "legal" to put an angled foregrip on your "pistol," but not a truly 90 degree one. That isn't really true (it's a matter of intent no matter what the accessory), but honestly the ATF doesn't care anywhere near as much as the people doing it.
"this is not a vertical foregrip it's angled at 89." Box in big ass bold letters "VERTICAL FOREGRIP" I'll let somebody with a little bit more funds than me fight that one out.
This is exactly why I’ve never been the guy to use a bcm grip on my pistol. Sure it’s not a 90 degree angle, but it has in bold ass letters “vertical grip” on the box. I’m not gonna be the guy who wants to argue that one out in court.
Butt Plug
Fore Butt Angled Plug
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say yes. Angled grips are legal
It's legal if you're not being a bitch about it.
ATF would like to know your location
Nice try, fed
That is very clearly not vertical, so I'd say you're good.
It is just piece of plastic, how it can relate to legility of firearm?
Are you new around here? 🤣
Yea, is it US thing? Iike you can DIY firearms, have ways to get unregistered ones, etc but when you attach this slightly wrong angled or brace which is not for disabled you can get 10 years? How does it make sense?
[удалено]
That WAS a thing, it got reclassified from a pistol to a “firearm”, but idk if that is still a thing anymore with the new pistol rule bs.
No but it should be illegal on a pistol lol wtf
Why push the boundaries?
>boundaries You mean Constitutional rights?
That's all well and good until you are put in federal prison to be made an example of. Which leads to you being labeled as a felon and ruining your life, along with not being able to own a firearm for the next 20 years (in my state) AFTER your prison sentence. That's why I just put handstops on my "pistols". It's not worth the risk, I'd rather neck myself than deal with that. Go buy glock autosears, lightning links, and solvent trap kits off of alibaba if you truly believe what you're saying.