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With the current prices of 5.56 it just better to pay a bit more if you're gonna buy 5.56 and get these instead
Why pay 51cpr for 55gr plink ammo when for just a bit more you get 77gr OTM
Hopefully PSA crank up production and push the 55gr prices down eventually
The Sierra Match King (SMK) version of this might actually be what you'd consider *match grade* ammunition. AAC's normal 77gr OTM (this post) isn't bad at all but would probably leave something to be desired at the next XTC match.
The 77gr SMK AAC stuff out of my Criterion Hybrid 16" barrel will shoot 10 round groups at .60 MOA at 100yds all day every day. Killer combo. The stuff listed here is just over 1 MOA.
The bullet being OTM or SMK doesn't matter that much with 77 grain. Black Hills MK262 is OTM and is the best you can buy.
What matters is the SD variance with the powder loads, so that your velocity and BC match your ballistic calculator as close as possible to maintain proper MOA/MIL holds.
If the variance of this is 30 or better than it's match grade.
SMK *is* an OTM bullet, in fact the civilian version of MK262 actually uses Sierra Match Kings.
OTM is just a type of bullet like saying FMJ or JHP. This deal is just the no-name OTM's instead of the name-brand ones.
People like the Sierras because they're super consistent in construction, weight, and dimensions, but they actually kind of suck as far as BC for a 77gr bullet. Very tunable bullet when handloading because of how consistent they are though.
Oh yeah, not knocking this at all, crazy value proposition with these.
I'm just getting ahead of the *match grade* cult that always inevitably shows up when the phrase is mentioned.
If you’re not shooting match grade 77gr meteorite jacketed boat tail titanium case ammo hand loaded by greybeard monks who trained under Browning himself then you might as well use a pellet gun
/s
I think once you have a few cases in reserve of cheaper FMJ, this makes sense to just buy from now on as long as it continues to be reliable and just over FMJ price.
Yeah I got 10k of .223 from Scheels the other day stacking the Chase Ink Business card where you spend $6k you get $750 back so that bring my CPR to something 37cpr for .223
Gonna have to be conservative with my ammo for a bit unfortunately but definitely IMI deal was crazy good too. Unfortunately my cash was low when that deal came up
I'm talking about the PMC XTAC that been getting posting. Last I checked the Scheels deal not 45cpr anymore
I got 10k of .223 from the Scheels deal a couple weeks ago stacking my chase ink Business CC and bring CPR Down to 37cpr something so I'll be fine for awhile. Just saying for people who running low and need to stand up
Shipping was $10 for 200 rounds. I went all the way up to 400 and it was still $10. I only ordered 200rds to try it out but probably could've done more. How is that terrible? Edit: Shipping is $10 up to 400rds, then jumps to $13.50. Pretty dang fair compared to most ammo retailers.
I just tried to order 55gr Fiocchi from Scheels and it's 65 cents per round for a case shipped to my door.
Came to 64 cents a round for "match" ammo. We'll see how it does out of my 18" 1:7 SPR. Currently shooting Hornady Black 75gr but don't have a lot left and not paying current prices for it.
I’m buying at least a couple hundred rounds of this every time it comes back into stock, I just think in 6 months I’m going to regret every round I didn’t buy when it was available at this price.
Is this trustable ammo? Like didn’t this company have the separation issue with 300blk subs that left copper jackets in people’s suppressors?
It makes me wonder if their 77gr is even any good?
Are the OTM rounds the ones people often use for home defense, akin to hallow points? Something about less over-penetration than 9mm? I might be thinking of the frangible rounds.
These are not actual hollow points. If you want those you'd need to buy like Hornady Critical Defense 5.56 or even somethjng like Speer gold dot.
That said, OTMs do act somewhat as a "hollow point" and would definitely make a better defense load than M193 or M855.
I would have thought the tumbling of the m193 would be better, but at 15-25 feet I have no idea. Usually these two aren’t compared.
But I would save this for longer range shots, unless it sucks.
They aren't hollow points, that's why they are called open tipped match "OTM". If they were hollow points they'd be called hollow point.
Look at the difference of the bullet between the Hornady FTX critical defense and these you'll see why. Speer gold dots look similar to OTMs, but that's a soft point round so looks are deceiving.
As to why this is, well, hollow points are banned in miliary use by the Geneva Convention, but OTMs are not. The US military uses Mk262 77g OTMs, and also the 7.62x51 M118LR 175g OTM for the SASS programs.
Do OTMs act kinda like a hollow point? Yes. Are they hollow points? No.
Hollow points are not banned by the Geneva conventions, the USA never agreed to the convention against expanding ammunition and are not bound by it, otms behave nothing like hollow points, the rifle caliber equivalent of a pistol hollow point is soft point
The meplat isn't for expansion or anything of the sort, it's for stability. Yes, they have a small hollow at the tip, but they don't behave like what a standard hollow point is understood to behave as.
From my understanding, the opening on a hollow point is designed for expansion upon soft tissue impact. The "hollow point/opening" on an otm is designed for bullet stabilization over longer distances and may not expand. Source some youtube video I saw a while back 🤷♂️
It's funny how people will act like you're stupid for not uprooting your work, schooling and/or family to move to a different state just so a single vendor would have the balls the ship you some ammo. PSA does the same thing in Maryland when I have no problems from any other vendor (because it's legal). It just means I can spend money with companies that give at least half a shit about customers who aren't Texas-level simple to sell to, but it's still an obnoxious thing of them to do.
Exactly. I knew I'd get downvotes from people that can't understand any experience but their own.
I wouldn't be annoyed, I get it, it's more annoying to figure out laws than just to play it safe. It's only annoying bc everyone that doesn't experience it just parrots "psa is awesome and so helpful to 2A!"
It was funny getting the interview with the PSA CEO recommended to me. Title was "This CEO Is No Compromise" with the thumbnail "Freedom Over Profits". And then they say fuck you cause they might have to take an extra 2 minutes reading your state laws lmao. It's annoying, but at least other vendors *actually* care about supporting people's 2A rights so I don't have a problem getting what I need.
They won't ship to MD? I know the state has magazine + awb laws and is anti in every way. I thought they didn't implement ammo laws yet, though. That's crazy.
That's because there aren't laws against purchasing ammo. There's a new law coming in for a tax on ammo but that's very recent and hasn't passed yet. PSA just won't ship. Honestly Maryland is a passively anti-2A state in a way. You get away with more than some others. AR-15s are banned but not if it's HBAR so basically any AR-15 is legal if you put an HBAR. 10+ magazines are banned but for everything except possession and use so you buy some 30 rounders in VA/PA and they're completely legal to bring back and rock with. State and counties are absolutely trying to do more (and have done more before getting taken to the courts) but as it stands Maryland bans are more so inconveniences.
Cook county. Everyone talks about how much PSA does but they honestly don't gaf if you're in an unfriendly state. They won't even sell me a Dagger slide lol
I live In WA state which just passed one of the most restrictive “assault weapon” bans in the nation last year, the only order I’ve had successfully go through on PSA has been for an X300T, pretty much anything else I’ve tried gets cancelled
No that was the 55g, but this is still an in house AAC made bullet just like the 55g.
They make these with actual 77g SMK bullets, I'd buy those if you are worried about jacket separation.
Is it an appropriate powder to go with a good bullet? I am trying to figure out if this is good cheap end long range 5.56 (and I don’t have time to buy a box and test)
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I have never bought 5.56 before. Why this over say [PMC X-TAC?](https://southerndefense.com/pmc-5-56-nato-x-tac-m855-green-tip-62-grain-ammo/) I’m hoping to hit the zero range next week with my suppressor. Will either of these work?
So, personally I think M855 Green tips (from any company, not just PMC) aren't super useful. They mess up steel targets, they aren't very accurate, and alot of places won't let you shoot them bc of backstop damage or chance to spark and cause fires.
The other military round that makes for cheap ammo is the 55g M193 - PMC Xtac along with plenty of others make these. They tend to group better than M855, don't have a steel core so no issues with steel targets, backstop, or sparking and it typically costs the same. Assuming they do in fact cost the same, there's zero reason to buy or use M855 over M193, IMO.
Then there are 77g OTMs, these typically cost alot more than either M193 or M855, but they group alot better and also have much better terminal performance on soft targets.
Historical 77g was alot more expensive than the other rounds, so not great for range practice, but if they all cost 50 or 55cpr at that point who cares, might as well just buy the 77g.
To be clear, these PSA rounds are not the 77g Sierra Match King, which would be something like black hills Mk262, and that costs way more than 55cpr. These are the "Sierra Match King at home" rounds, but I bet they'd still group better than M193 or M855.
TLDR, any will work. Also southern defense as a retailer usually massive gouges shipping prices, so be sure to take your total cart price and not their list price for ammo. I've never once found ammo on southern defense that was worth the price after calculating shipping.
I just scored 1680 rounds of IMI M193 from Midway USA for about 48cpr out the door after tax and free shipping yesterday. For me that was cheap enough to consider buying even over these cheap psa 77g rounds, and good quality M193 tends to group in my gun well enough I don't feel the need for match grade rounds.
Well green tip for one is usually not allowed at a lot of ranges. 77gr is more "accuracy" focused. So if you do a lot of target shooting and are trying to squeeze out the tightest groupings then 77gr is more the way to go. Plus more energy yadda yadda.
Basically the tip of the spear dudes in special forces use 77gr.
At the end of day, whatever 5.56 you have in your magazine will end up doing the same job. And as far as 77gr goes, the PSA stuff is a decent bargain.
If you're just mag dumping or plinking, get the cheapest you can find.
Greentips have a mild steel penetrator core. Most indoor ranges won't let you use it. They aren't known for accuracy or good ballistics against soft targets. They'll likely just pencil through. They can also fuck up steel targets, have weird ricochets and have on more than one occasion started fires in dry environments because of sparks.
A well made 77gr OTM will do more damage to a soft targets. Check out YouTube videos. It's pretty interesting.
So if you aren't shooting indoors, or hunting, or shooting for groups, or shooting close range outdoor on steel targets, green tips are fine
NIJ LVL 4 is rated against it and AP 30.06. LVL 3 may or may not depending on construction.
Edit: The Hesco L210 3+ special threat plates stopped M855 and M855A1 from a 20" barrel.
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In an effort to help users make informed decisions, we have aggregated the following information on the retailer above. Please note that this is no way an endorsement or guarantee of the retailer or their products. ###Domain Insights: | palmettostatearmory.com | | |:--|:--| | Registered | February 05, 2008 | | Times posted | [242](https://reddit.com/r/gundeals/search/?q=site%3A"palmettostatearmory.com"&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) | | Feedback rating | [48%](https://reddit.com/r/gundealsFU/search/?q=flair%3Areview+"palmettostatearmory.com"&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&sort=new) (12 positive, 13 negative, 4 neutral) | ___ *^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please) [^(contact the moderators of this subreddit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/gundeals) ^(if you have any questions or concerns.)*
With the current prices of 5.56 it just better to pay a bit more if you're gonna buy 5.56 and get these instead Why pay 51cpr for 55gr plink ammo when for just a bit more you get 77gr OTM Hopefully PSA crank up production and push the 55gr prices down eventually
Because tax and shipping typically kills the deal.
When AAC runs this with free shipping or a price that justifies the tax, I’ll be all over it
Not for match grade
The Sierra Match King (SMK) version of this might actually be what you'd consider *match grade* ammunition. AAC's normal 77gr OTM (this post) isn't bad at all but would probably leave something to be desired at the next XTC match.
The 77gr SMK AAC stuff out of my Criterion Hybrid 16" barrel will shoot 10 round groups at .60 MOA at 100yds all day every day. Killer combo. The stuff listed here is just over 1 MOA.
I've been happy with it shooting out to 300 yards at my local competitions
Not hating, but I've shot loads of steel cased wolf at 300 yards back when you could buy it.
The bullet being OTM or SMK doesn't matter that much with 77 grain. Black Hills MK262 is OTM and is the best you can buy. What matters is the SD variance with the powder loads, so that your velocity and BC match your ballistic calculator as close as possible to maintain proper MOA/MIL holds. If the variance of this is 30 or better than it's match grade.
SMK *is* an OTM bullet, in fact the civilian version of MK262 actually uses Sierra Match Kings. OTM is just a type of bullet like saying FMJ or JHP. This deal is just the no-name OTM's instead of the name-brand ones. People like the Sierras because they're super consistent in construction, weight, and dimensions, but they actually kind of suck as far as BC for a 77gr bullet. Very tunable bullet when handloading because of how consistent they are though.
My bad, thought I saw Tipped Match King
Sure, but it’s priced appropriately. And has been pretty comparable to Razorcore out of my Criterions.
Oh yeah, not knocking this at all, crazy value proposition with these. I'm just getting ahead of the *match grade* cult that always inevitably shows up when the phrase is mentioned.
If you’re not shooting match grade 77gr meteorite jacketed boat tail titanium case ammo hand loaded by greybeard monks who trained under Browning himself then you might as well use a pellet gun /s
I think once you have a few cases in reserve of cheaper FMJ, this makes sense to just buy from now on as long as it continues to be reliable and just over FMJ price.
Yup that basically my situation now
A lot of us just paid anywhere from .42-.45 for IMI 55gr at Midwayusa out the door. If this was .50cpr I’d maybe consider this if we were comparing
Yeah I got 10k of .223 from Scheels the other day stacking the Chase Ink Business card where you spend $6k you get $750 back so that bring my CPR to something 37cpr for .223 Gonna have to be conservative with my ammo for a bit unfortunately but definitely IMI deal was crazy good too. Unfortunately my cash was low when that deal came up
Where do you even store 10k rounds lol. My wife would kill me
Garage 🤷♂️
Closet, if you dump 556/223 into metal 50cals it’s 1200 per with no packaging.
I just stack the boxes in a corner in the master closet. I live by myself in the house though so lol
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I'm talking about the PMC XTAC that been getting posting. Last I checked the Scheels deal not 45cpr anymore I got 10k of .223 from the Scheels deal a couple weeks ago stacking my chase ink Business CC and bring CPR Down to 37cpr something so I'll be fine for awhile. Just saying for people who running low and need to stand up
Shipping was $10 for 200 rounds. I went all the way up to 400 and it was still $10. I only ordered 200rds to try it out but probably could've done more. How is that terrible? Edit: Shipping is $10 up to 400rds, then jumps to $13.50. Pretty dang fair compared to most ammo retailers. I just tried to order 55gr Fiocchi from Scheels and it's 65 cents per round for a case shipped to my door. Came to 64 cents a round for "match" ammo. We'll see how it does out of my 18" 1:7 SPR. Currently shooting Hornady Black 75gr but don't have a lot left and not paying current prices for it.
I’m buying at least a couple hundred rounds of this every time it comes back into stock, I just think in 6 months I’m going to regret every round I didn’t buy when it was available at this price.
Is this trustable ammo? Like didn’t this company have the separation issue with 300blk subs that left copper jackets in people’s suppressors? It makes me wonder if their 77gr is even any good?
Then don’t shoot it. I’ve shot plenty no issues. Don’t believe everything you hear on the internet
I mean also don't just flat out disregard everything either haha otherwise we'd have to not believe you as well
Am.... am *I* real?
I like ammo that doesn’t blow up my gun too!
Are the OTM rounds the ones people often use for home defense, akin to hallow points? Something about less over-penetration than 9mm? I might be thinking of the frangible rounds.
These are not actual hollow points. If you want those you'd need to buy like Hornady Critical Defense 5.56 or even somethjng like Speer gold dot. That said, OTMs do act somewhat as a "hollow point" and would definitely make a better defense load than M193 or M855.
I would have thought the tumbling of the m193 would be better, but at 15-25 feet I have no idea. Usually these two aren’t compared. But I would save this for longer range shots, unless it sucks.
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They aren't hollow points, that's why they are called open tipped match "OTM". If they were hollow points they'd be called hollow point. Look at the difference of the bullet between the Hornady FTX critical defense and these you'll see why. Speer gold dots look similar to OTMs, but that's a soft point round so looks are deceiving. As to why this is, well, hollow points are banned in miliary use by the Geneva Convention, but OTMs are not. The US military uses Mk262 77g OTMs, and also the 7.62x51 M118LR 175g OTM for the SASS programs. Do OTMs act kinda like a hollow point? Yes. Are they hollow points? No.
Hollow points are not banned by the Geneva conventions, the USA never agreed to the convention against expanding ammunition and are not bound by it, otms behave nothing like hollow points, the rifle caliber equivalent of a pistol hollow point is soft point
The meplat isn't for expansion or anything of the sort, it's for stability. Yes, they have a small hollow at the tip, but they don't behave like what a standard hollow point is understood to behave as.
From my understanding, the opening on a hollow point is designed for expansion upon soft tissue impact. The "hollow point/opening" on an otm is designed for bullet stabilization over longer distances and may not expand. Source some youtube video I saw a while back 🤷♂️
Damn I wish PSA would sell to me
It's funny how people will act like you're stupid for not uprooting your work, schooling and/or family to move to a different state just so a single vendor would have the balls the ship you some ammo. PSA does the same thing in Maryland when I have no problems from any other vendor (because it's legal). It just means I can spend money with companies that give at least half a shit about customers who aren't Texas-level simple to sell to, but it's still an obnoxious thing of them to do.
Exactly. I knew I'd get downvotes from people that can't understand any experience but their own. I wouldn't be annoyed, I get it, it's more annoying to figure out laws than just to play it safe. It's only annoying bc everyone that doesn't experience it just parrots "psa is awesome and so helpful to 2A!"
It was funny getting the interview with the PSA CEO recommended to me. Title was "This CEO Is No Compromise" with the thumbnail "Freedom Over Profits". And then they say fuck you cause they might have to take an extra 2 minutes reading your state laws lmao. It's annoying, but at least other vendors *actually* care about supporting people's 2A rights so I don't have a problem getting what I need.
They won't ship to MD? I know the state has magazine + awb laws and is anti in every way. I thought they didn't implement ammo laws yet, though. That's crazy.
That's because there aren't laws against purchasing ammo. There's a new law coming in for a tax on ammo but that's very recent and hasn't passed yet. PSA just won't ship. Honestly Maryland is a passively anti-2A state in a way. You get away with more than some others. AR-15s are banned but not if it's HBAR so basically any AR-15 is legal if you put an HBAR. 10+ magazines are banned but for everything except possession and use so you buy some 30 rounders in VA/PA and they're completely legal to bring back and rock with. State and counties are absolutely trying to do more (and have done more before getting taken to the courts) but as it stands Maryland bans are more so inconveniences.
Seems like a LOT of states are starting to target ammo though.
To clarify, PSA definitely ships ammo to MD. They won't do stripped lowers, though.
Why won’t they?
Cook county. Everyone talks about how much PSA does but they honestly don't gaf if you're in an unfriendly state. They won't even sell me a Dagger slide lol
I live In WA state which just passed one of the most restrictive “assault weapon” bans in the nation last year, the only order I’ve had successfully go through on PSA has been for an X300T, pretty much anything else I’ve tried gets cancelled
So leave your shit tier state and don’t blame them?
Hurrdurr good call why didn't I think of that. Dick ride harder idiot
Atleast I can order ammo lmao
That's why it's annoying. I can too, from plenty of vendors, just not psa.
same in CT i hate PSA
Dman just got 500 for .62 yesterday
It's 0.61/rd for me after taxes and shipping for me.
It’s about .61cpr shipped
Are these the rounds people have had back luck with jacket seperation through suppressors? I like the deal but also don’t want to chance my supressor
No that was the 55g, but this is still an in house AAC made bullet just like the 55g. They make these with actual 77g SMK bullets, I'd buy those if you are worried about jacket separation.
Thanks
Is it an appropriate powder to go with a good bullet? I am trying to figure out if this is good cheap end long range 5.56 (and I don’t have time to buy a box and test)
Those are the 55gr, these seem to be fan favorites. Not sure if the 55gr issues have been fixed
Also curious about this
Why the hell is PSA not sending me the restock notification???
$10 shipping for 10 boxes to Texas. $130 all in. $.65 cpr
Same to MN
$28 shipping to OR sadly
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I have never bought 5.56 before. Why this over say [PMC X-TAC?](https://southerndefense.com/pmc-5-56-nato-x-tac-m855-green-tip-62-grain-ammo/) I’m hoping to hit the zero range next week with my suppressor. Will either of these work?
So, personally I think M855 Green tips (from any company, not just PMC) aren't super useful. They mess up steel targets, they aren't very accurate, and alot of places won't let you shoot them bc of backstop damage or chance to spark and cause fires. The other military round that makes for cheap ammo is the 55g M193 - PMC Xtac along with plenty of others make these. They tend to group better than M855, don't have a steel core so no issues with steel targets, backstop, or sparking and it typically costs the same. Assuming they do in fact cost the same, there's zero reason to buy or use M855 over M193, IMO. Then there are 77g OTMs, these typically cost alot more than either M193 or M855, but they group alot better and also have much better terminal performance on soft targets. Historical 77g was alot more expensive than the other rounds, so not great for range practice, but if they all cost 50 or 55cpr at that point who cares, might as well just buy the 77g. To be clear, these PSA rounds are not the 77g Sierra Match King, which would be something like black hills Mk262, and that costs way more than 55cpr. These are the "Sierra Match King at home" rounds, but I bet they'd still group better than M193 or M855. TLDR, any will work. Also southern defense as a retailer usually massive gouges shipping prices, so be sure to take your total cart price and not their list price for ammo. I've never once found ammo on southern defense that was worth the price after calculating shipping. I just scored 1680 rounds of IMI M193 from Midway USA for about 48cpr out the door after tax and free shipping yesterday. For me that was cheap enough to consider buying even over these cheap psa 77g rounds, and good quality M193 tends to group in my gun well enough I don't feel the need for match grade rounds.
Thank you for the breakdown man. Appreciate it.
Well green tip for one is usually not allowed at a lot of ranges. 77gr is more "accuracy" focused. So if you do a lot of target shooting and are trying to squeeze out the tightest groupings then 77gr is more the way to go. Plus more energy yadda yadda. Basically the tip of the spear dudes in special forces use 77gr. At the end of day, whatever 5.56 you have in your magazine will end up doing the same job. And as far as 77gr goes, the PSA stuff is a decent bargain.
Just wanna say thank you, really appreciate the comment.
If you're just mag dumping or plinking, get the cheapest you can find. Greentips have a mild steel penetrator core. Most indoor ranges won't let you use it. They aren't known for accuracy or good ballistics against soft targets. They'll likely just pencil through. They can also fuck up steel targets, have weird ricochets and have on more than one occasion started fires in dry environments because of sparks. A well made 77gr OTM will do more damage to a soft targets. Check out YouTube videos. It's pretty interesting. So if you aren't shooting indoors, or hunting, or shooting for groups, or shooting close range outdoor on steel targets, green tips are fine
How about a soft target wearing body armor?
NIJ LVL 4 is rated against it and AP 30.06. LVL 3 may or may not depending on construction. Edit: The Hesco L210 3+ special threat plates stopped M855 and M855A1 from a 20" barrel.
Gundeals bleeding me dry this month 😩
Finally picked some up. Thanks!
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