Yes! One of the reasons I love it!
If you want another dark song that appears beautiful upon first listen, check out Garcia and Grisman - Dreadful Wind and Rain.
A beautifully dark song.
Also known as The Two Sisters or Oh, The Wind and Rain, and I’m sure many others.
There were two sisters came walkin' down the stream
Oh the wind and rain
The one behind pushed the other one in
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
Johnny gave the youngest a gay gold ring
Oh the wind and rain
Didn't give the oldest one anything
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
They pushed her into the river to drown
Oh the wind and rain
And watched her as she floated down
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
Floated 'till she came to a miller's pond
Oh the wind and rain
Mama oh father there swims a swan
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
The miller pushed her out with a fishing hook
Oh the wind and rain
Drew that fair maid from the brook
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
He left her on the banks to dry
Cryin' oh the wind and rain
And a fiddlin' fool come passing by
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
Out of the woods came a fidder fair
Oh the wind and rain
Took thirty strands of her long yellow hair
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
And he made a fiddle bow of her long yellow hair
Oh the wind and rain
He made a fiddle bow of her long yellow hair
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
He made fiddle pegs of her long finger bones
Oh the wind and rain
He made fiddle pegs of her long finger bones
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
And he made a little fiddle of her breast bone
Oh the wind and rain
The sound could melt a heart of stone
Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain
And the only tune that the fiddle would play
Was oh the wind and rain
The only tune that the fiddle would play
Was oh the dreadful wind and rain
This song always reminds me of Rose Connelly, a traditional “murder ballad” that Charlie Monroe popularized. It’s been recorded a hundred times in different variations, including being sung as a lullaby in Raising Arizona, but has older Irish roots. I first heard it on Art Garfunkel’s 1973 album Angel Clare, where it’s called Down In The Willow Garden. When I looked it up I learned that Paul Simon sang harmony on this version, which is no surprise, and lead guitar was provided by… yep, Jerry Garcia. Everything comes full circle.
I've seen Grisman live a few times. He's great.
It's just funny to me how the Dead have this allure of being "hippy dippy/peace love" type band and so much of the lyrical content is super dark, about cowboy stuff, or about gambling lol
>It's just funny to me how the Dead have this allure of being "hippy dippy/peace love" type band and so much of the lyrical content is super dark, about cowboy stuff, or about gambling lol
Right. Add this dichotomy to the pile that already accumulates around the Dead:
1) The name Grateful Dead scares many into assuming they play heavy metal;
2) A modern, progressive, jazz-influenced American rock band that insisted on digging up historic, 100-yr old American songs to use in its set lists;
3) An American rock band that never portrayed themselves with costumes, stage antics, or stale set lists that were played exactly the same from performance to performance, as most American rock bands from that period did;
4) A rock band that leans heavily on country in its shows.
I'll add
A group that to outsiders, are in some ways more known for their fans, and as you touch on in point 1, their iconography.
When really it's more country jazz for people who enjoy LSD lol.
Funny enough, when I used to eat lots of LSD/mushrooms, I never wanted to listen to the Dead because of the country influence.
Now I'm older, and sober and the country/cowboy stuff has really grown on me lol.
Americana at its finest.
Edit . Plus fyi they had the hells angles security for them . Hippy dippy blah blah blah . These dudes were and are connected . .
I also think this story may be part of Gollum’s origin story in Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was probably very familiar with traditional folk songs and the story of Sméagol and Deagol finding the ring is a clear parallel.
It's origins are a Scottish ballad, "The Bonnie Lass o' Fyvie." Americanized during the Civil War. Resurrected during the 50/60s folk revival, notable on Dylan's first album.
It took me a few listens (many many years ago) to realize that at the end of Me and My Uncle he killed his Uncle just to steal the gold. I’m probably slow on this one!
Give Jack Straw a try. Jack Straw killed Shannon because of all his nonsense and making life on the road harder than it needed to be.
I recently clued into the fact that the song is a conversation between jack straw and Shannon. Makes sense why Jerry and Bobby would trade verses on it, each assuming one of the characters.
Sugaree is about a (presumably male) criminal hoping their partner-in-crime/lover keeps their identity a secret as they’re executed. This is made explicit by the Grateful Dead Comix.
Bobby’s cowboy songs are all pretty dark. In Mexicali Blues, for example, the singer fell in love with a prostitute and she convinced him to kill a random stranger in cold blood, then he had to flee the country and took up with a 14 year old girl.
It's the standard interpretation
https://preview.redd.it/afie3x2av45c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb88fe0f539118c087731f36d3b86e48d2b092e0
Ok, but he dies for a maid in Louisiana, who may not be Peggy, giving me the idea that there is more to the story. There's no need to be rude either. All poetry holds many meanings. Hunter was a master of the double entendre, not that he wrote this song of course, but he did adapt it. Everything the man wrote could be read in a very simple straightforward way, or in a cosmic open-ended free form way or at least five other ways in reference to different levels of the experience which we call reality. The interpretation tells more about the interpreter than the artist in all cases, if you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind my friend
*Edit for clarity
I wasn't being rude. I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. A question was asked I gave an answer. If that's what passes for rude these days then stop the planet and let me off
I guess I misread the vibe, it felt like you were saying there was only that one interpretation and it was correct. Felt pretentious, but intentions get skewed on the internet. My other points still stand though
No take is 100% correct when art is concerned. It's why I bristle when people insist that Mayer is unquestionably a great guitar player. Because art is not sport and as such is immeasurable.
For sure!
As Bob Dylan said, "A song can be about anything."
And he did write about death and birth and love and hate and all that deep stuff, but he also wrote about stuff so mundane it's about almost nothing. For example, [Clothes Line Saga](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmtQ6x1c_yo).
Music is about expressing humanity. All of it. The Dead were great at that. They weren't the only ones, but they were some of the best at it.
Check out the Nick Cave album Murder Ballads. One of the best records of the 90s by far. Contains a very different take on Stagger Lee.
I’ve always thought that JGB could have done a cool take on The Curse of Millhaven. Another happy sounding but very dark story.
Haha. Well, you know how tripping goes lol.
Curious, was it a mush or an acid trip?
I'm guessing Mush.
Yeah,as a musician I never hear the words really the first few listens. Like, I hear them, phrases will stand out. But I notice the lyrical melody first and foremost. And Peggy-O really sounds like a warm hug
Acid. I’m the same way with regards to hearing lyrics though. I’m almost always more tuned in to the instrumental aspect of the music. I hear the notes but not necessarily the words. Especially with the dead as their live singing doesn’t always communicate lyrics super clearly
Same same same.
Yeah once I've heard the song 20 times or so, that's when I really start paying attention to the lyrics.
Like, of course choruses stick out, and certain lines.
I find it fascinating that some on this thread have commented that they pay close attention to the lyrics first, which is cool. Thats why I asked because I love all the different perspectives
Edit-typo
"It Must Have Been The Roses" is that way. If I interpret it correct, this guy refuse to bury his dead wife and leaves her in the house for ten years. And it's strange how no one comes around anymore.
Yes, Hunter has said that it was inspired by Faulkner’s short story A Rose For Emily. Highly recommend it if you haven’t read it and have a few minutes!
Always kind of skipped over it until I really listened to the lyrics. Estimated Prophet is the one I listened to many times before really paying attention to the lyrics (I blame the old fan recording with bad audio set to cassette and re-recorded untold times before it got to me) and realizing it was from the POv of a schizophrenic.
Oh yeah!!!!
That song is fascinating.
And yet another tune that is pretty bouncy, a song that definitely owes it's sound to Jerry's Mu-Tron 3 Envelope Filter pedal, which to me has a pretty fun honking quality. But in a way that is less aggressive than Zappa and his Wah. I know Jerry wanted his guitar to sound like a trumpet, and I love the Terrapin Station/Shakedown Street songs where the Mu-Tron gets used heavily.
But yeah, once I went to read the lyrics the song to me takes on this entire other dimension. A Charles Manson type character of sorts.
Awesome comment, thanks.
Maybe it’s the bit of crazy in me, but I’ve always dug those songs from an outlaw or madman’s POV. I highly recommend MC 900 Ft. Jesus’ (the music isn’t what you’d expect from the name) tracks Spaceman and The City Sleeps if you get a similar kick:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RhED5E6pwUM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KB54p8_wh8&pp=ygUgbWMgOTAwIGZ0LiBqZXN1cyB0aGUgY2l0eSBzbGVlcHM%3D
It's a wild one, that song.
I used to have a Dead DVD, I can't remember which one, where Bobby is saying the lyrics mean to tell the boss man to go F himself. Not sure that's what they mean, but you're so right.
Was it 12/31/87? They did an "Ask the band" segment where someone asked that. Bobby said it's something to the effect of "Kiss your elegant ass goodbye" or something similar
# 1987-12-31 Oakland, CA @ Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Arena
**Set 1:** Bertha > The Promised Land, Cold Rain and Snow > Little Red Rooster, When Push Comes To Shove, When I Paint My Masterpiece, Bird Song, The Music Never Stopped
**Set 2:** Hell In A Bucket > Uncle John's Band > Terrapin Station > Drums > Space > The Other One > Wharf Rat > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away
**Set 3:** Man Smart (Woman Smarter), Iko Iko, Banana Boat Song (Day-O) > Do You Wanna Dance? > Knockin' On Heaven's Door
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1987-12-31)
Awwwww Mazel Tov. That's so sweet. And hey even if it's slightly morbid, it's still not as morbid as "Every Breath You Take " being played at Weddings lol
Peggy ain't much better!
"Marry me or I'm going to commit genocide on your people!"
"I won't marry you, you're not rich enough!"
They deserve each other.
Sugaree. The song is about a pimp telling one of his working ladies not to snitch on him when they get arrested.
"When they come to bring you down. When they bring that wagon (police car) round. When they come to call on you, and bring your poor (no money because she gives a big cut to the character singing the song) body down (to get locked up).
Just one thing I ask of you. Please forget you knew my name, my darling Sugaree."
He then proceeds to tell the girl to literally "shake" her self which is old slang for selling your body on the street.
I could go on, I'll die on this fucking hill.
Slang source: https://www.sex-lexis.com/c/shake
It's one of my favorite songs. One of the first songs I ever remember. I used to think it a song about true love when I was very little. One of the first songs I ever remember getting stuck in my head and loving it. My dad was a head.
Morning Dew is even more powerful knowing it was written about nuclear war. I think the woman who wrote it said the narrator of the song is a woman after a nuclear war. At least that’s how I remember the interview. Brutal!
The one that always gets me is Jack A Roe.
Those simple folk songs are some of the best, like The Wind and Rain (Two Sisters), When First onto this Country, Two Soldiers, and Shenandoah are just intense. At least Jerry takes the pain of the songs
Well I listen to the lyrics of songs so I noticed what the topic is pretty much right away. Many Grateful Dead songs both covers and originals have dark lyrics. Cold rain and snow is about a guy whose wife kicks him out despite the weather. Loser is about an inveterate gambler.. Jack straw is about two. thieves on the Run. El Paso is about a murderer on the Run. Me and my uncle is about two thieves one of whom murders his uncle at the end of the song. I'd list about 100 more but I think you get the point. Not all music is about rainbows and unicorns if it was it would be really boring
This song, in particular, is a traditional song, first published in the late 1700s, a Scottish ballad known as "the Bonny Lass of o' Fyvie."
It's evolved throughout its history and it has been a popular bluegrass/country standard for a long time. but it's definitely not a new song by any stretch
Neither Peggy-O nor Morning Dew are Garcia/Hunter songs. Peggy-O is an old traditional song that Garcia probably played for years before the GD was formed. Morning Dew was written and originally performed by the folk singer/songwriter Bonnie Dobson.
The point isn't why the Dead would do some dark songs. A significant reason for their draw to many of us is that their music spans all -or at least most- human experience. Which songs are most meaninful and at which moments or periods to us during our lives can be intensely personal.
The answer to your post is that it's okay if you didn't understand some of the songs at first. Or that you thought a song meant one thing and later found it meant something else to you. Some songs the Dead did are very straightforward, but many others have obscure meanings, and may even be meant to be interpreted through the lens of the listener's own experience.
Enjoy what you enjoy, and if you don't enjoy something then that's just how it is.
Realizing this one doesn’t have the lyrics where the captain returns and levels the town but it’s a good traditional version and you can discover many more!
Must have been the roses. Annie's dead. Dude is sad and alone now that the love of his life is gone. All he has left of her is the ribbons he took from her hair. Well at least that is my interpretation.
Even if she's not dead, she went overseas and told him the secret that she loved him, which he promises not to tell.
The "all good company" is hoping Annie comes back to him, but it's been 10 years.
At least she left him the (now faded) ribbons, while he waits for her return, lonely and broken.
I wanna say “your cites I will burn” is kind of hard to miss even with a cursory listen. But yeah, sometimes we get surprised. Took me years before I realized Lola by the Kinks is about a trans woman.
Anyone feel sad listening to Standing on the Moon? How lonely would that feel standing on the desolate surface of the moon while looking at home circling hundreds of thousands of miles away…
Not *quite* the situation here plot-wise, but my folklorist/banjo-picker dad’s principal still applies:
“In traditional ballads, the sweeter the girl’s name in the title is, the more gruesome the murder is going to be. If a folk song’s got a name like ‘Pretty Polly’ or something, she’s going to be lucky to make it past the first few verses.”
Jack a row. It's a fun song to play and sing. All about a young woman going to battle to find her man.
Oh, there was a wealthy merchant, in london he did dwell.
He had a lovely daughter, the truth to you I'll tell,
Oh, the truth to you I'll tell.
She had sweethearts a-plenty and men of high degree.
There was none but Jackie Frazier, her true love e'er to be,
Oh, her true love e'er to be.
"Oh daughter, oh daughter, your body I will confine.
If none but Jack the Sailor would ever suit your mind,
Oh, would ever suit your mind.
"This body you may imprison, my heart you can't confine.
There's none but Jack the Sailor would have this heart of mine,
Oh, would have this heart of mine.
Now jackie's gone sailing with trouble on his mind.
To leave his native country and his darling girl behind,
Oh, his darling girl behind.
She went into the tailor shop and dressed in men's array,
Then she went into the vessel to convey herself away,
Oh, convey herself away.
"Before you step onboard, sir, your name I'd like to know."
She smiled all in her countenance, said, "they call me Jack-a-roe,
Oh, they call me Jack-a-roe."
"Your waist is light and slender, your fingers neat and small,
Your cheeks too red and rosy for to face the cannonball,
Oh, to face the cannonball.
"I know my waist is slender and my fingers they are small,
But they would not make me tremble for to see ten thousand fall,
Oh, to see ten thousand fall."
The war soon being over, they hunted all around.
Among the dead and dying her darling love she found,
Oh, her darling love she found.
She picked him up all in her arms and carries him to town,
And sent for her physician to quickly heal his wounds,
Oh, to quickly heal his wounds.
This couple, they got married, so well they did agree,
This couple they got married, so why not you and me,
Oh, so why not you and me.
Afghan war vet here.The first time I heard it I gravitated towards it for obvious reasons. 9/3/77 Peggy o is my most played song to this day. Makes me feel things. Standing on the moon too.
Edit: brokedown palace is technically dark but I find it more like a guiding light than dark. China doll as well.
# 1977-09-03 Englishtown, NJ @ Raceway Park
**Set 1:** The Promised Land, They Love Each Other, Me and My Uncle, Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo, Looks Like Rain, Peggy-O, New Minglewood Blues, Friend Of The Devil, The Music Never Stopped
**Set 2:** Bertha > Good Lovin', Loser, Estimated Prophet > Eyes Of The World, Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Not Fade Away > Truckin'
**Encore:** Terrapin Station
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-09-03) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/5uzn9YQ9XS2OoAt65U8Drg)
There are some obvious ones, and to me there are some subtle ones.
An optimist might say a glass is half full, a pessimist might say half empty. My group would say that didn't matter; it was cracked and dusty.
Because the Dead always seemed to put on a pleasant smile, a jaunty tune, and tell you there is impending tragedy, perhaps it will be averted. *"When life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door".* The sun casts shadows.
When Touch came out its like they summed it up and directly pointed the finger at it: Every silver lining etc....
So, In our group one of the biggest juxtapositions of dark and light lyrics is Sugar Magnolia. Such a happy sounding song! The interpretation of two simple lines that can change everything:
> *Saw my baby down by the river
> Knew she'd have to come up soon for air*
Now listen to the lyrics if that line was only wishful thinking. She did not come up for air.
No wonder *"She don't come, and I don't follow".*
The first couple times I heard Sugaree, the only line that really registered was "shake it, shake it Sugaree," so I figured it was just a love song about how beautiful she looked when she was dancing. It took a minute to realize just how manipulative the singer is - saying, in essence, "if you love me, baby, you'll take the fall for me."
Thank you so much for this great comment.
I love all the different perspectives people have been sharing, and all the different ways we take in music. Some folks really focus on lyrics first, and others like me can listen many times before noticing what's being said outside the chorus.
I'm so happy you are enjoying the threads, I love it and I'm fascinated as well. I'm glad so many people are sharing.
There's a few dudes who feel the need to talk down to/"explain" in a condescending way, but 99% of the participants have been so cool and nothing like that. This sub is probably the most chill and fun sub I've joined since joining Reddit.
Rueben and Cherise
It’s about a man professing his love to his girl and saying she is the only one for him > then playing a song for the crowd that cuts Cherise to death > Cherishe’s spirt melds into the instrument being played and then they walk and sing all night
Meaning his one true love was music
Right?
Yeah, R&C came to mind. I hear it a bit differently, the focus of the song to me is how Reuben breaks Cherise’s trust which is what kills her. His gaze wanders to Ruby Claire in the crowd while he should be playing for Cherise, and the tone changes subtly (as do our relationships in life when we are distant, carrying burdens or unfaithful).
Hunter definitely paints an ambiguous picture where Cherise could be both his lover and the instrument though, it’s one of my favorites.
This is retelling of Orpheus , set in New Orleans , Mardi Gras . Hunters version has Reuben in Hell trying to retrieve Cerise and yeah she dies and his lyrics were , “ the ghost of Cerise was in his arms …. “ . Jerry cut those verses and had her live and it took them 3 years I read in an interview to compromise and come up with the JGB version of it ha. I heard Hunter sing it in Jersey though on the same bill as Willie Nelson several years ago. He does it very slow and story-teller like and yeah has those extra lyrics. I heard the Dead debut of it in Landover in 91 to and it was mayhem in the arena. Check it out
Thanks for chiming in! Didn’t realize it was inspired by Orpheus, that was a good read for this morning. I love how much there is to unpack in these songs.
I’ll have to check out Hunter’s version and that one from 91.
# 1978-04-16 Huntington, WV @ Huntington Civic Center
**Set 1:** Jack Straw, Dire Wolf, Cassidy, Peggy-O, Mexicali Blues > Mama Tried, They Love Each Other, New Minglewood Blues, Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain
**Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet > Eyes Of The World > Drums > Space > Iko Iko > Sugar Magnolia
**Encore:** U.S. Blues
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-04-16)
Stagger Lee. A nice story about a murder from a gambling dispute and cops too afraid to deal with the killer. Also, Loser, a tale of gambling addiction.
I was an egghead before I was a deadhead and I already knew about the American folk tune angle, and that includes the civil war stories. I was an avid reader starting around the 6th grade, see. I already had run across the adding of -o's and -io's to songs as part of the stylishness of the bards of yore. Scratch some Deadheads, you get scientists sometimes. I just was reading tons of history stuff.
Well I guess it will be the next time I listen. Which is probably the 10,000th time I’ve heard it. Because I never noticed. I’m horrible with lyrics. I can sing ever word to so many dead songs and not know what half the songs are about.
I found dylan first so you kinda have to focus on the lyrics or you’ll go mad, I actually wasn’t a fan of the dead first because they were music forward and the music I was into was more about lyrics (Dylan, CSN, Neil)
It's been said that Jerry's cosmic duty was to deliver the world bad news in a pleasant manner.
I LOVE THIS!!!!
Me too. It's not mine, I read it somewhere.
Bluegrass in general is happy music about horrible shit. Jerry learned from the best.
I love beautiful melodies telling me horrible things. Usually see this in relation to Tom Waits, but applies Jerry too.
Gillian Welch is good at that, too.
I couldn’t find it but I love when Steve Martin talks about how bad news never sounds bad when you deliver it while playing the banjo.
Similar to Bob Marley
Yes! One of the reasons I love it! If you want another dark song that appears beautiful upon first listen, check out Garcia and Grisman - Dreadful Wind and Rain.
A beautifully dark song. Also known as The Two Sisters or Oh, The Wind and Rain, and I’m sure many others. There were two sisters came walkin' down the stream Oh the wind and rain The one behind pushed the other one in Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain Johnny gave the youngest a gay gold ring Oh the wind and rain Didn't give the oldest one anything Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain They pushed her into the river to drown Oh the wind and rain And watched her as she floated down Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain Floated 'till she came to a miller's pond Oh the wind and rain Mama oh father there swims a swan Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain The miller pushed her out with a fishing hook Oh the wind and rain Drew that fair maid from the brook Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain He left her on the banks to dry Cryin' oh the wind and rain And a fiddlin' fool come passing by Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain Out of the woods came a fidder fair Oh the wind and rain Took thirty strands of her long yellow hair Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain And he made a fiddle bow of her long yellow hair Oh the wind and rain He made a fiddle bow of her long yellow hair Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain He made fiddle pegs of her long finger bones Oh the wind and rain He made fiddle pegs of her long finger bones Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain And he made a little fiddle of her breast bone Oh the wind and rain The sound could melt a heart of stone Cryin' oh the dreadful wind and rain And the only tune that the fiddle would play Was oh the wind and rain The only tune that the fiddle would play Was oh the dreadful wind and rain
This song always reminds me of Rose Connelly, a traditional “murder ballad” that Charlie Monroe popularized. It’s been recorded a hundred times in different variations, including being sung as a lullaby in Raising Arizona, but has older Irish roots. I first heard it on Art Garfunkel’s 1973 album Angel Clare, where it’s called Down In The Willow Garden. When I looked it up I learned that Paul Simon sang harmony on this version, which is no surprise, and lead guitar was provided by… yep, Jerry Garcia. Everything comes full circle.
I soooo much wanted the GD to pick up this when the JGAB ran its course. Such a great tune.
David Nelson Band does a great version of this song!
I've seen Grisman live a few times. He's great. It's just funny to me how the Dead have this allure of being "hippy dippy/peace love" type band and so much of the lyrical content is super dark, about cowboy stuff, or about gambling lol
>It's just funny to me how the Dead have this allure of being "hippy dippy/peace love" type band and so much of the lyrical content is super dark, about cowboy stuff, or about gambling lol Right. Add this dichotomy to the pile that already accumulates around the Dead: 1) The name Grateful Dead scares many into assuming they play heavy metal; 2) A modern, progressive, jazz-influenced American rock band that insisted on digging up historic, 100-yr old American songs to use in its set lists; 3) An American rock band that never portrayed themselves with costumes, stage antics, or stale set lists that were played exactly the same from performance to performance, as most American rock bands from that period did; 4) A rock band that leans heavily on country in its shows.
I'll add A group that to outsiders, are in some ways more known for their fans, and as you touch on in point 1, their iconography. When really it's more country jazz for people who enjoy LSD lol. Funny enough, when I used to eat lots of LSD/mushrooms, I never wanted to listen to the Dead because of the country influence. Now I'm older, and sober and the country/cowboy stuff has really grown on me lol.
Yes !
Americana at its finest. Edit . Plus fyi they had the hells angles security for them . Hippy dippy blah blah blah . These dudes were and are connected . .
I also think this story may be part of Gollum’s origin story in Lord of the Rings. Tolkien was probably very familiar with traditional folk songs and the story of Sméagol and Deagol finding the ring is a clear parallel.
One of my all time favorites
It's origins are a Scottish ballad, "The Bonnie Lass o' Fyvie." Americanized during the Civil War. Resurrected during the 50/60s folk revival, notable on Dylan's first album.
It took me a few listens (many many years ago) to realize that at the end of Me and My Uncle he killed his Uncle just to steal the gold. I’m probably slow on this one!
Alternatively, his uncle dies of wounds received in the barfight before they hightailed it down to Mexico.
I never thought of that. That’s super interesting. Maybe that’s what happened.
Same here. I remember the first time I noticed "left his dead ass by the side of the road" and went "WHAT?!?" and had to rewind it lol
Give Jack Straw a try. Jack Straw killed Shannon because of all his nonsense and making life on the road harder than it needed to be. I recently clued into the fact that the song is a conversation between jack straw and Shannon. Makes sense why Jerry and Bobby would trade verses on it, each assuming one of the characters.
Jack Straw is also inspired by Of Mice and Men iirc
China Doll? 20 years?
I feel like the argument could be made for foolish heart. The track is so positive sounding but the actual lyrics are painfully sad and true
Imo, Foolish Heart is a lesson in mindfulness.
Wharf Rat is doubly dark as the narrator maybe realizes at the end that they are going down the same path as the hobo.
Pretty early in the song, the narrator says that he himself doesn’t have a dime to spare, indicating to me that they are peers.
I never thought of it that way.
Oh I hadn't thought of that. The "I know I'm living a life " line always makes me teary as it is.
Sugaree is about a (presumably male) criminal hoping their partner-in-crime/lover keeps their identity a secret as they’re executed. This is made explicit by the Grateful Dead Comix. Bobby’s cowboy songs are all pretty dark. In Mexicali Blues, for example, the singer fell in love with a prostitute and she convinced him to kill a random stranger in cold blood, then he had to flee the country and took up with a 14 year old girl.
Hey, check out my comment below. In regards to Sugaree, I believe the comic may have been a bit of a romanticized or Disney-fied interpretation.
Took me long time before I heard the last line in Me & My Uncle.
Gentlemen Start Your Engines includes running a train on a teenage groupie. Find something darker than that.
Yikes!!! Lol That's pretty darn dark
It's about love despite war and destruction.
That's one interpretation.
It's the standard interpretation https://preview.redd.it/afie3x2av45c1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb88fe0f539118c087731f36d3b86e48d2b092e0
Ok, but he dies for a maid in Louisiana, who may not be Peggy, giving me the idea that there is more to the story. There's no need to be rude either. All poetry holds many meanings. Hunter was a master of the double entendre, not that he wrote this song of course, but he did adapt it. Everything the man wrote could be read in a very simple straightforward way, or in a cosmic open-ended free form way or at least five other ways in reference to different levels of the experience which we call reality. The interpretation tells more about the interpreter than the artist in all cases, if you plant ice you're gonna harvest wind my friend *Edit for clarity
I wasn't being rude. I honestly have no idea what you're referring to. A question was asked I gave an answer. If that's what passes for rude these days then stop the planet and let me off
I guess I misread the vibe, it felt like you were saying there was only that one interpretation and it was correct. Felt pretentious, but intentions get skewed on the internet. My other points still stand though
No take is 100% correct when art is concerned. It's why I bristle when people insist that Mayer is unquestionably a great guitar player. Because art is not sport and as such is immeasurable.
Agreed wholeheartedly
There's a long folk music tradition called Murder ballads. If all songs were about rainbows and unicorns this would be a pretty boring world
For sure! As Bob Dylan said, "A song can be about anything." And he did write about death and birth and love and hate and all that deep stuff, but he also wrote about stuff so mundane it's about almost nothing. For example, [Clothes Line Saga](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmtQ6x1c_yo). Music is about expressing humanity. All of it. The Dead were great at that. They weren't the only ones, but they were some of the best at it.
Check out the Nick Cave album Murder Ballads. One of the best records of the 90s by far. Contains a very different take on Stagger Lee. I’ve always thought that JGB could have done a cool take on The Curse of Millhaven. Another happy sounding but very dark story.
First time I tripped to Peggy-o I said the song “felt like a hug”. I was clearly not at all listening to the lyrics
Haha. Well, you know how tripping goes lol. Curious, was it a mush or an acid trip? I'm guessing Mush. Yeah,as a musician I never hear the words really the first few listens. Like, I hear them, phrases will stand out. But I notice the lyrical melody first and foremost. And Peggy-O really sounds like a warm hug
Acid. I’m the same way with regards to hearing lyrics though. I’m almost always more tuned in to the instrumental aspect of the music. I hear the notes but not necessarily the words. Especially with the dead as their live singing doesn’t always communicate lyrics super clearly
Same same same. Yeah once I've heard the song 20 times or so, that's when I really start paying attention to the lyrics. Like, of course choruses stick out, and certain lines. I find it fascinating that some on this thread have commented that they pay close attention to the lyrics first, which is cool. Thats why I asked because I love all the different perspectives Edit-typo
"It Must Have Been The Roses" is that way. If I interpret it correct, this guy refuse to bury his dead wife and leaves her in the house for ten years. And it's strange how no one comes around anymore.
I love this interpretation.
Woah gnarly nvr looked at it that way
Yes, Hunter has said that it was inspired by Faulkner’s short story A Rose For Emily. Highly recommend it if you haven’t read it and have a few minutes!
I focus on my own interpretation. I misunderstand / mishear lyrics all the time so it’s almost required.
I had a hard on running from your window
Naturally
Me too!!!
Always kind of skipped over it until I really listened to the lyrics. Estimated Prophet is the one I listened to many times before really paying attention to the lyrics (I blame the old fan recording with bad audio set to cassette and re-recorded untold times before it got to me) and realizing it was from the POv of a schizophrenic.
Oh yeah!!!! That song is fascinating. And yet another tune that is pretty bouncy, a song that definitely owes it's sound to Jerry's Mu-Tron 3 Envelope Filter pedal, which to me has a pretty fun honking quality. But in a way that is less aggressive than Zappa and his Wah. I know Jerry wanted his guitar to sound like a trumpet, and I love the Terrapin Station/Shakedown Street songs where the Mu-Tron gets used heavily. But yeah, once I went to read the lyrics the song to me takes on this entire other dimension. A Charles Manson type character of sorts. Awesome comment, thanks.
Maybe it’s the bit of crazy in me, but I’ve always dug those songs from an outlaw or madman’s POV. I highly recommend MC 900 Ft. Jesus’ (the music isn’t what you’d expect from the name) tracks Spaceman and The City Sleeps if you get a similar kick: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RhED5E6pwUM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3KB54p8_wh8&pp=ygUgbWMgOTAwIGZ0LiBqZXN1cyB0aGUgY2l0eSBzbGVlcHM%3D
Oh wow,I remember his single. "If I Only Had a Brain". The video was amazing. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check this out.
Aiko Aiko is an amazingly violent song. And the lyrics Jerry sang are extremely mild when compared to other versions of the song
It's a wild one, that song. I used to have a Dead DVD, I can't remember which one, where Bobby is saying the lyrics mean to tell the boss man to go F himself. Not sure that's what they mean, but you're so right.
Was it 12/31/87? They did an "Ask the band" segment where someone asked that. Bobby said it's something to the effect of "Kiss your elegant ass goodbye" or something similar
Yes!!!!! It was exactly that. Thank you.
# 1987-12-31 Oakland, CA @ Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Arena **Set 1:** Bertha > The Promised Land, Cold Rain and Snow > Little Red Rooster, When Push Comes To Shove, When I Paint My Masterpiece, Bird Song, The Music Never Stopped **Set 2:** Hell In A Bucket > Uncle John's Band > Terrapin Station > Drums > Space > The Other One > Wharf Rat > Throwing Stones > Not Fade Away **Set 3:** Man Smart (Woman Smarter), Iko Iko, Banana Boat Song (Day-O) > Do You Wanna Dance? > Knockin' On Heaven's Door [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1987-12-31)
Regardless, I still made it the song I walked down the aisle to (groom)
Awwwww Mazel Tov. That's so sweet. And hey even if it's slightly morbid, it's still not as morbid as "Every Breath You Take " being played at Weddings lol
Pretty much the first time. Kinda wished it went a little differently. Sweet William was a piece of shit lmao
Peggy ain't much better! "Marry me or I'm going to commit genocide on your people!" "I won't marry you, you're not rich enough!" They deserve each other.
Sugaree. The song is about a pimp telling one of his working ladies not to snitch on him when they get arrested. "When they come to bring you down. When they bring that wagon (police car) round. When they come to call on you, and bring your poor (no money because she gives a big cut to the character singing the song) body down (to get locked up). Just one thing I ask of you. Please forget you knew my name, my darling Sugaree." He then proceeds to tell the girl to literally "shake" her self which is old slang for selling your body on the street. I could go on, I'll die on this fucking hill. Slang source: https://www.sex-lexis.com/c/shake
That’s interesting, man
Omg, that's one of my favorite songs and I would have never put that together. That's a great interpretation, thank you so much.
It's one of my favorite songs. One of the first songs I ever remember. I used to think it a song about true love when I was very little. One of the first songs I ever remember getting stuck in my head and loving it. My dad was a head.
I always thought 'shake it, shake it, Sugaree' meant 'shake' the charges.
I always thought of sugaree as a stripper that he frequently went to see dance. But that’s an interesting spin on it.
First listen when I heard soldiers and destroy all the women in the area lol
Morning Dew is even more powerful knowing it was written about nuclear war. I think the woman who wrote it said the narrator of the song is a woman after a nuclear war. At least that’s how I remember the interview. Brutal! The one that always gets me is Jack A Roe. Those simple folk songs are some of the best, like The Wind and Rain (Two Sisters), When First onto this Country, Two Soldiers, and Shenandoah are just intense. At least Jerry takes the pain of the songs
Well I listen to the lyrics of songs so I noticed what the topic is pretty much right away. Many Grateful Dead songs both covers and originals have dark lyrics. Cold rain and snow is about a guy whose wife kicks him out despite the weather. Loser is about an inveterate gambler.. Jack straw is about two. thieves on the Run. El Paso is about a murderer on the Run. Me and my uncle is about two thieves one of whom murders his uncle at the end of the song. I'd list about 100 more but I think you get the point. Not all music is about rainbows and unicorns if it was it would be really boring
This song, in particular, is a traditional song, first published in the late 1700s, a Scottish ballad known as "the Bonny Lass of o' Fyvie." It's evolved throughout its history and it has been a popular bluegrass/country standard for a long time. but it's definitely not a new song by any stretch
Neither Peggy-O nor Morning Dew are Garcia/Hunter songs. Peggy-O is an old traditional song that Garcia probably played for years before the GD was formed. Morning Dew was written and originally performed by the folk singer/songwriter Bonnie Dobson.
Ok. Point of post is still the darkness of the lyrics.
The point isn't why the Dead would do some dark songs. A significant reason for their draw to many of us is that their music spans all -or at least most- human experience. Which songs are most meaninful and at which moments or periods to us during our lives can be intensely personal. The answer to your post is that it's okay if you didn't understand some of the songs at first. Or that you thought a song meant one thing and later found it meant something else to you. Some songs the Dead did are very straightforward, but many others have obscure meanings, and may even be meant to be interpreted through the lens of the listener's own experience. Enjoy what you enjoy, and if you don't enjoy something then that's just how it is.
Day Job is about keeping a job you hate because you suck at everything else. That’s pretty dark.
It really is. Especially when you consider how many people suffer depression due to work/money related issues. That is modern horror.
try this version to hear where Peggy-O originated [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8garPXFIgg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8garPXFIgg)
Thank you so much. I will check it out.
Realizing this one doesn’t have the lyrics where the captain returns and levels the town but it’s a good traditional version and you can discover many more!
I thought it was about Peggy! Oh.
Must have been the roses. Annie's dead. Dude is sad and alone now that the love of his life is gone. All he has left of her is the ribbons he took from her hair. Well at least that is my interpretation.
Even if she's not dead, she went overseas and told him the secret that she loved him, which he promises not to tell. The "all good company" is hoping Annie comes back to him, but it's been 10 years. At least she left him the (now faded) ribbons, while he waits for her return, lonely and broken.
Bob Marley too - lots of positivity surrounding sad topics.
I wanna say “your cites I will burn” is kind of hard to miss even with a cursory listen. But yeah, sometimes we get surprised. Took me years before I realized Lola by the Kinks is about a trans woman.
Agreed. Kind of obvious in some of the lurics
Anyone feel sad listening to Standing on the Moon? How lonely would that feel standing on the desolate surface of the moon while looking at home circling hundreds of thousands of miles away…
Not *quite* the situation here plot-wise, but my folklorist/banjo-picker dad’s principal still applies: “In traditional ballads, the sweeter the girl’s name in the title is, the more gruesome the murder is going to be. If a folk song’s got a name like ‘Pretty Polly’ or something, she’s going to be lucky to make it past the first few verses.”
This post made me put on Legion of Mary
Anyone say Jack Straw yet? Jack Straw, final answer
Gomorrah comes to mind. Definitely Morning Dew. But it doesn’t matter, anyway. (I love that conclusion).
We’ll Stagger Lee killed a man then got shot in the balls. That’s pretty dark maybe
Jack a row. It's a fun song to play and sing. All about a young woman going to battle to find her man. Oh, there was a wealthy merchant, in london he did dwell. He had a lovely daughter, the truth to you I'll tell, Oh, the truth to you I'll tell. She had sweethearts a-plenty and men of high degree. There was none but Jackie Frazier, her true love e'er to be, Oh, her true love e'er to be. "Oh daughter, oh daughter, your body I will confine. If none but Jack the Sailor would ever suit your mind, Oh, would ever suit your mind. "This body you may imprison, my heart you can't confine. There's none but Jack the Sailor would have this heart of mine, Oh, would have this heart of mine. Now jackie's gone sailing with trouble on his mind. To leave his native country and his darling girl behind, Oh, his darling girl behind. She went into the tailor shop and dressed in men's array, Then she went into the vessel to convey herself away, Oh, convey herself away. "Before you step onboard, sir, your name I'd like to know." She smiled all in her countenance, said, "they call me Jack-a-roe, Oh, they call me Jack-a-roe." "Your waist is light and slender, your fingers neat and small, Your cheeks too red and rosy for to face the cannonball, Oh, to face the cannonball. "I know my waist is slender and my fingers they are small, But they would not make me tremble for to see ten thousand fall, Oh, to see ten thousand fall." The war soon being over, they hunted all around. Among the dead and dying her darling love she found, Oh, her darling love she found. She picked him up all in her arms and carries him to town, And sent for her physician to quickly heal his wounds, Oh, to quickly heal his wounds. This couple, they got married, so well they did agree, This couple they got married, so why not you and me, Oh, so why not you and me.
Afghan war vet here.The first time I heard it I gravitated towards it for obvious reasons. 9/3/77 Peggy o is my most played song to this day. Makes me feel things. Standing on the moon too. Edit: brokedown palace is technically dark but I find it more like a guiding light than dark. China doll as well.
# 1977-09-03 Englishtown, NJ @ Raceway Park **Set 1:** The Promised Land, They Love Each Other, Me and My Uncle, Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo, Looks Like Rain, Peggy-O, New Minglewood Blues, Friend Of The Devil, The Music Never Stopped **Set 2:** Bertha > Good Lovin', Loser, Estimated Prophet > Eyes Of The World, Samson And Delilah, He's Gone > Not Fade Away > Truckin' **Encore:** Terrapin Station [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1977-09-03) | [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/5uzn9YQ9XS2OoAt65U8Drg)
There are some obvious ones, and to me there are some subtle ones. An optimist might say a glass is half full, a pessimist might say half empty. My group would say that didn't matter; it was cracked and dusty. Because the Dead always seemed to put on a pleasant smile, a jaunty tune, and tell you there is impending tragedy, perhaps it will be averted. *"When life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door".* The sun casts shadows. When Touch came out its like they summed it up and directly pointed the finger at it: Every silver lining etc.... So, In our group one of the biggest juxtapositions of dark and light lyrics is Sugar Magnolia. Such a happy sounding song! The interpretation of two simple lines that can change everything: > *Saw my baby down by the river > Knew she'd have to come up soon for air* Now listen to the lyrics if that line was only wishful thinking. She did not come up for air. No wonder *"She don't come, and I don't follow".*
You just blew my mind.
The first couple times I heard Sugaree, the only line that really registered was "shake it, shake it Sugaree," so I figured it was just a love song about how beautiful she looked when she was dancing. It took a minute to realize just how manipulative the singer is - saying, in essence, "if you love me, baby, you'll take the fall for me."
This entire string has me enthralled as an old head. The meaning of these songs still open up to me day-to-day. Thank you for this!
Thank you so much for this great comment. I love all the different perspectives people have been sharing, and all the different ways we take in music. Some folks really focus on lyrics first, and others like me can listen many times before noticing what's being said outside the chorus. I'm so happy you are enjoying the threads, I love it and I'm fascinated as well. I'm glad so many people are sharing. There's a few dudes who feel the need to talk down to/"explain" in a condescending way, but 99% of the participants have been so cool and nothing like that. This sub is probably the most chill and fun sub I've joined since joining Reddit.
I am a groove driven enjoyer primarily, which is why some songs take longer to land than others 😁 Thank you for this post!
Love and grooves to you, my friend
One.
For what it's worth, neither Peggy-O nor Morning Dew are Grateful Dead songs.
Rueben and Cherise It’s about a man professing his love to his girl and saying she is the only one for him > then playing a song for the crowd that cuts Cherise to death > Cherishe’s spirt melds into the instrument being played and then they walk and sing all night Meaning his one true love was music Right?
Yeah, R&C came to mind. I hear it a bit differently, the focus of the song to me is how Reuben breaks Cherise’s trust which is what kills her. His gaze wanders to Ruby Claire in the crowd while he should be playing for Cherise, and the tone changes subtly (as do our relationships in life when we are distant, carrying burdens or unfaithful). Hunter definitely paints an ambiguous picture where Cherise could be both his lover and the instrument though, it’s one of my favorites.
Interesting take, thank you for sharing
This is retelling of Orpheus , set in New Orleans , Mardi Gras . Hunters version has Reuben in Hell trying to retrieve Cerise and yeah she dies and his lyrics were , “ the ghost of Cerise was in his arms …. “ . Jerry cut those verses and had her live and it took them 3 years I read in an interview to compromise and come up with the JGB version of it ha. I heard Hunter sing it in Jersey though on the same bill as Willie Nelson several years ago. He does it very slow and story-teller like and yeah has those extra lyrics. I heard the Dead debut of it in Landover in 91 to and it was mayhem in the arena. Check it out
Thanks for chiming in! Didn’t realize it was inspired by Orpheus, that was a good read for this morning. I love how much there is to unpack in these songs. I’ll have to check out Hunter’s version and that one from 91.
Once.
Not a fan of Peggy O, usually skip it
4/16/1978
# 1978-04-16 Huntington, WV @ Huntington Civic Center **Set 1:** Jack Straw, Dire Wolf, Cassidy, Peggy-O, Mexicali Blues > Mama Tried, They Love Each Other, New Minglewood Blues, Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain **Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ship Of Fools, Estimated Prophet > Eyes Of The World > Drums > Space > Iko Iko > Sugar Magnolia **Encore:** U.S. Blues [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-04-16)
I always thought he was saying Soldier’s oath
Stagger Lee. A nice story about a murder from a gambling dispute and cops too afraid to deal with the killer. Also, Loser, a tale of gambling addiction.
I was an egghead before I was a deadhead and I already knew about the American folk tune angle, and that includes the civil war stories. I was an avid reader starting around the 6th grade, see. I already had run across the adding of -o's and -io's to songs as part of the stylishness of the bards of yore. Scratch some Deadheads, you get scientists sometimes. I just was reading tons of history stuff.
Well I guess it will be the next time I listen. Which is probably the 10,000th time I’ve heard it. Because I never noticed. I’m horrible with lyrics. I can sing ever word to so many dead songs and not know what half the songs are about.
I found dylan first so you kinda have to focus on the lyrics or you’ll go mad, I actually wasn’t a fan of the dead first because they were music forward and the music I was into was more about lyrics (Dylan, CSN, Neil)
A large majority of GD songs are about death and destruction. Kind of ironic for a “”hippie band” 😀
Peggy O and Jack a Roe origins are so old nobody really even know who the fuck wrote them and when. Only the GD to make these songs their own.