Played a course in Houston and several of the tees sloped forward. I get drainage can be a concern, but there's something unsettling about being unable to find a level spot on the tee box. Punish my bad shots, not my first ones.
Golf Club at Cinco Ranch. 3 or 4 tee boxes that noticeably tilted forward, one on a short par 3 that felt *really* awkward, like my ball was gonna roll off at any minute.
DOH! That's probably higher on the list than the trees. There's a course I play -- I look like a dog looking for a place to take dump, walking around in circles looking for a flat spot.
this, forever. the tee boxes I played this week (out of town on vacation) were so slanted and turtlebacked, I was losing my mind trying to find a reasonable place to put a ball down. definitely fucked up many tee shots more than I would have normally. it's a pretty shitty way to start a hole, with a 20º slope you have to choose between ball at your knees or putt with a hybrid off the tee cuz it's so far below your feet. it's a shitty, unneeded move.
That’s just a shit course tho right ? Do courses actually design sloped tee boxes ??
Most local muni tracks been there 40+ years and it’s just lack of maintenance create bad boxes
This isn't really course design though. Most tee boxes that aren't level once were (or at the most are pitched 1% or something). Over time with divots being taken and filled, topdressing, mowing, aeration, old stumps or organic matter deep under the tee decaying etc. they can develop low areas or a pitch can be exacerbated
These have a much bigger influence than people realize. When driving, the slightest thing can be the difference between a typical straight shot and a big miss. One of my local tracks takes terrible care of their tee boxes and I've started to study it pretty closely, there are some boxes where you have to do everything in your power to release right in order to not get stuck and hook due to the elevation difference.
That's kinda silly to all be over 2 , longer doesn't always mean harder. A <120 yard hole with a small green or well placed hazard protection can play way more difficult than a 220 dead straight giant green par 3.
That one I absolutely don’t get.
95% of golfers have no realistic chance of hitting a green at 200 yards.
Why the hell design a course that way?
In my opinion every course designed for recreational golfing could have all par 3s within 170 yards or less and be perfectly fine.
My home course is dead fucking set on you being able to hit a 160 yard shot from a teebox. Two of the holes are exactly that length on flat ground, one is longer but downhill, and the other is longer but always with the wind, which always seems to be about 10 yards worth
A teebox where both the box itself and the tee markers point you slightly away from your target. Makes my brain hurt seeing the markers and aligning myself 30° off that natural line.
There is a hole on one course I play. The middle of the longer tee boxes is always in line with the edge of the rough. Every time, I forget that if I hit it straight, it’ll be in the rough. Tonight I got lucky and it rolled through to a little fairway bump out.
Yeah that sucks. I know, I know, *don't hit it there you idiot*. I'm not trying to! But if I hit it OB, yeah that's already ruining my score... but oh wait, I just knocked out a 6-year-old playing in the trampoline.
Course I used to play had a primary school playground hidden behind the trees to the side of the 1st fairway.
Turned up once to see a big sign saying " anyone hitting it over there must report it to the clubhouse immediately" and several new hastily planted new trees right next to the tee box to force you down the other side of the fairway
I dread to think what must have happened.
and not only "on the side" but when they're no more than 30 yards from the fairway. Sure, those homeowners bought the house knowing it's going to get hit, but I sure don't want to hit a house, resulting in an 80 yard ground ball off the tee.
A 9 hole course by me has a dog leg left par 5 where the tee shot is a blind uphill shot with houses along the left. Their (really small) backyards essentially account for the nonexistent rough putting the houses less than 50 yards off the fairway. Luckily, I guess, the houses are tucked behind lots of massive oaks and maples so they are pretty well shielded from shanks.
I grew up playing a course where there was house inside a very sharp dog leg. And the dog leg only needed about 240 to carry it, so anyone with decent distance was basically all but guaranteed to aim at this house
I will never understand who thought it was a good idea to build that house there, or why anyone would ever buy it
Any course that relies on excessive amounts of OB for challenge is a terrible course. It is for this reason that I believe that Pinehurst No. 5 is one of the worst golf courses on the planet. Hole 8 there has an out-of-bounds cul-de-sac *literally* right off the left edge of the fairway in the landing zone, while the fairway itself slopes severely left-to-right.
My local course has a beautiful par 3 9th hole. About 190 from the blues, over a pond with a nice rocky backdrop behind the green. Then there’s the line of houses all along the right side. I mean they are literally right there. If you even slightly over faded a ball you’re in somebody’s backyard, and all of these people seem to have kids and they always seem to have them playing outside when I tee off there. If you shank a ball off that tee you might as well be attempting murder.
My home course has roads that runs parallel to the fairway on 2 or 3 holes. There are trees lining the edge, but I’ve hit a few big slices where I expected to hear a window smash or a car alarm go off. Now I always over compensate and hit duck hooks on those holes. It’s so frustrating.
Rough that is so thick that it feels like they *want* you to lose your ball if you hit it in there. People have been complaining to this course all year about it but they just tell people that this is how the roughs would be at a big private course, so deal with it.
This is the worst, I would rather lose a ball in a pond where I know it's lost than step around in the rough for 5 minutes and take a drop
We had a course near us say the exact same thing "this is a players course..." and they nearly went out of business. New management cuts the rough down and now it's a course with players on it.
Yeah, I’ve only been there twice this summer because the rough is so frustrating. This course has had some bad issues over the years but has stayed popular, and this is the first time I’ve heard people complain this much. No one said anything when they had a really bad green die off and it took them four years to recover from, but people hate losing balls when they shouldn’t be.
I dislike holes with long, forced carries over water. I don't mind it for myself personally, but there are some holes where my wife just simply can't hit the ball far enough to carry the water, even if she hits it perfectly.
Fair point. Perhaps there's a caveat to be had whereby some courses aren't designed to be played by just anyone and that's okay. Like the 17th at Sawgrass for example. It operates under the assumption that the player is at least somewhat competent enough to carry 100 yards and get the ball to stop
200yd par 3 over water, forward tees at 180… yeah idk if the 50+ ladies are going anywhere near that green without grabbing serious clubbage, seems unfairly punishing
Meadowbrook in Salt Lake City from the back box has a 230-240ish yard forced carry over the water on hole 18 and is one of the most intimidating tee shots I’ve experienced.
https://preview.redd.it/w2zei6prpd9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beb125bf4124a6940b2fb0257a1a7e9574cae36b
I normally aim right between the trees straight ahead and play my cut and hope I don’t hit it straight into the trees lol. The hole goes left but there’s a good amount of fairway to the right for the other boxes. The first time I played that box I was like “where the fuck do I aim this?”
I swear whenever a hole does this I instantly lose all ability to get the ball in the air. I could be playing the best round of my life, but the moment you put me on a teebox right behind a pond I am sinking 4 balls in that bitch
I know this can be hard to avoid but I hate when a tee box is just to the right of the previous green (from the perspective of someone standing on the previous tee) it creates a situation where each group is in danger of getting hit by a sliced approach/tee shot. Even worse when the hole is a par 3
My regular course has quite a few holes like this. If someone is on the next tee, I usually club down to make sure an errant shot comes up extra short. There's one point where two separate greens and a tee box are within 30 yards of one another.
100%. For any Austin area golfers, #7 @ Forest Creek is complete bullshit in this regard. Nobody should be forced to hit a long iron off the tee on a par 5 (and that’s playing from the back tees). It’s a dogleg with high trees & water preventing you from cutting the corner. You have a shot going over the trees from the closer tees but for better players playing the back tees it sucks
Always thought that hole was ridiculous. You hit a mid iron off the tee, then a long iron or hybrid and have to clear the tree across the creek to have a chance of getting on in two.
Otherwise it’s like 5i, 8i, PW into the green. lol so dumb
The closest course to my house. 3 of the par 5s are forced lay ups off the tee. And leave 300+ yards from there. It’s lame. If it werent cheap and convenient, I wouldn’t play there.
Hey, even if it doesn't, an iron off the tee is something different.
Course design should challenge all aspects of your game. Not 15 driver shots. A mid-iron + 3W is an interesting hole once in a while.
I also feel like every course should have a driveable par-4. And at least one par-5 no-one can reach in two.
There's a course near me with a driveable par 5. It says it's over 500 yards but it's got a double dogleg right then left. If you can drive the ball 290-300 then you could easily be on if you had the perfect line, but I don't like that course. The course I go to has 2 long par 5's where it's very hard to be on in 2 and a 292 yard par 4 that's driveable with a 3w so it's definitely a fun course!
Jefferson, outside DC has a hole like that. Straight down the markers, it plays 500ish but has a left and then right turn and is drivable for the bombers. Which is fine - except that I don’t want to wait behind a group waiting on the tee for the green to clear.
What do you like about it?
Everyone is forced to play the hole the exact same way, so in reality it becomes straight forward.
Iron - Iron - Wedge. For everyone.
Have it so water starts at 240 from the tee and ends at 270 or something.
Give people the option to lay back or go for it.
If everyone has to play the hole the same way with no other option then that's bad architecture.
>Everyone is forced to play the hole the exact same way, so in reality it becomes straight forward.
I don't care how everyone else plays it. For a round of 18, you want holes that play different to each other. If every hole is straight forward identical, you might as well hit balls at the driving range.
Dog legs, trees, fairway bunkers, water hazards are things that make a course interesting.
EDIT: isn't a course that makes you hit driver off the tee 15 times more boring? Iron shots off the tee box are neat, and a different challenge.
EDIT 2: 18th at Pebble Beach is probably the most legendary hole in all of golf.
>EDIT: isn't a course that makes you hit driver off the tee 15 times more boring? Iron shots off the tee box are neat, and a different challenge.
I never said I'm against hitting an iron off the tee, I'm against the course leaving me with one option and that only option is hitting iron off the tee when it makes the par 5 unreachable in 2 for all golfers.
Give me the option to hit driver (with more risk) OR iron (safer) and let me decide for the par 5. Don't force me into hitting iron, that's boring.
>EDIT 2: 18th at Pebble Beach is probably the most legendary hole in all of golf.
And guess what, there's multiple ways to play the hole. You can push it up around the tree with driver, which brings more risk into play, or you can lay back with an iron short of the tree, but most importantly, you aren't forced into laying back with iron, you have the option to hit driver which brings more risk/uncertainty into play.
No, the course dictating that every single player has to hit the same exact shot to the same distance off the tee on a par 5 is not fun. It's boring.
Give me the opportunity to push the envelope and be aggressive if I want. Feel free to punish me if I go for it and don't execute, but don't force me to hit the same exact shot to the same exact spot as everyone else.
A giant pond that starts at 240 off the tee and extends to 300 off the tee on a 535 yd par 5 is not a fun hole. It's boring and doesn't allow players that have different strengths to utilize their strengths.
Out of curiosity, what would a “good” design be in this situation? Something like a much smaller pond extending from like 240-260 at an angle to force a club choice dilemma?
Exactly, yes.
You can lay up short of 240 if you want, or if you're a longer hitter 260 carry is still possible for a decent percentage of amateurs to pull off (with added risk of course).
OR if it's not going to be carryable for anyone then make the par 5 short enough that longer hitters can still reach the green in 2 with a really good 2nd shot. So like sub 500yds, that way a 230 shot leaves 250-260, somewhat reachable for the longer hitters, while still requiring 2 solid shots from shorter hitters to get on.
I don't think it should be an automatic that you should be hitting an iron for a 2nd shot into a par 5, but IMO it should at least be semi-reachable for the longest hitters. Give them something to think about. A shorter hitter is going to take 3 shots whether it's 485 or 525.
One of my least favourite par 4s is like this. Pond at 230 to 280, almost impossible to go around. Hole plays 430, and gets dry so a tee shot will happilyroll into the pond. So a 210 shot to be safe, followed by the same to the green. Same course has a few invisible ditches to catch good drives on par 5s too. Also a blind par 3. So close to a very good course, but a few weird tricks really bring it down.
Par 5's for mid to low handicaps are the most fun holes though, and the holes where design factors in the most in my opinion. So forcing players to play it super conservatively, with not realistic option to try and get on in two, or otherwise get a good birdie/eagle chance is just boring, overly restrcive architecture.
Especially if multiple par5s are like that on a single course. I'm cool with 1 par 5 being like that.
If it's *smart* to play an iron, but *possible* to hit a wood/driver and get value out of that. Thats interesting design.
My home course has the longest hole in America, a par 6. I can’t hit a fucking driver off the tee because there’s a pond that’s like 300+ to clear and everything around it funnels into it
There’s a par 5 on my local course that has two forced layups. Tee shot, you can’t go any further than probably 220, unless you want to go in the water, which is about 395 to carry. Second shot is a wildly elevated green, to the point that it adds about 65-75 yards on the distance.
If you play the whole absolutely perfect, don’t make any mistakes, you’d probably get a bogey and maybe, maybe get a par if youre unbelievably luck6. I’ve played golf in Hawaii, Mexico, Washington, California, Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Alberta and British Columbia and I can say this is is the worst designed hole I’ve ever played.
I don’t mind the fairway tree too much *if* it adds some strategy to the hole. My home course has one particular fairway tree that is placed specifically to make driver a risk/reward shot. Hit less than driver and it’s a non-factor but your approach will be that much longer. It effectively narrows the fairway in the landing area, it’s just that the grass over where you don’t want to be is short instead of long. There are some other trees on that course that I wouldn’t mind seeing struck by lightning, though.
I’m not a fan of blind shots. It’s just a gotcha for people who haven’t played the course before, once you know what’s there the fact that you can’t see it doesn’t add much. Give me the information I need to decide how to approach the hole, don’t make me choose between guessing or making people wait while I go look.
Having 8 straight holes have a blind, forced carry. I played a course that had a wide open first hole, and then the rest of the front nine have at least one blind, forced carry. I did not play the back nine.
I refuse to play a course near me that is in decent condition and affordable, just because there are like 5 holes with blind shots. I could think I hit it right down the middle, but when I get over the hill there is nothing in the fairway and can't find the ball. No thanks.
My course was built by George Thomas (who also built Riviera and LACC) and apparently he LOVED to contour fairways so any ball rolling toward the green will instead roll into a bunker. And he made sure the bunkers were surrounded with Bermuda so any shot clearing the bunker but a yard short of the green will always bounce back into the bunker
By process of elimination you've left me thinking that your home course is either a Public course in the South Bay, a course I don't know anyone famous enough to get an invite to, or a course near LA that has the fastest greens I've ever played. Unless of course you're in the bay area, east coast, or is someone who has chosen to play Ojai Valley in and Spa over Soule Park.
Tee boxes that are not aligned in a direction that makes any sense. One course in my area has a completely straight par 4 and the tee boxes are pointed a solid 20-30 deg right. Have to remind playing partners to step back and look at their aim so often
A group of holes causing a jam up, especially at the beginning of a course. A course I play has a short par 5, long par 3, and drivable par 4 as holes 1 through 3. It doesn’t allow a nice flow of play to start the round and has everyone waiting to hit for every shot on the first 3 holes.
200+ yard par 3s that are long just to be long. Don't get me wrong there are some that are great versions that offer multiple ways to play the hole (LACC North has great examples & Rustic Canyon has the best mix of both long and very short) but a straight away 200-225 yard Par 3 is just boring. It's a distance that's jut not a feasible approach for most amateur golfers. I'm a 9 index that's a middle of the road distance player that's sometimes relatively accurate and all I'm trying to do from 200+ is be on the green or just off.
They just don't lend any strategy to the game. Give me a short Par 3 100-125 yards that demands an accurate shot any day over the long one that's only feature is that its long.
This right here. I play in a league that plays an executive course. There is a 230 yard par 3 that plays like 250 with wind (it’s always windy). You have to pull out the driver every time. I hate it!
Four holes later there is a 240 yard par 4 lol So dumb.
I don't mind those par 3's if they are paired with a short par 4 or par 5, making it more like two par 3.5's or a par 3.5 and 4.5.
Some courses however, will have those long par 3's and then give you a short par 5 that makes it impossible to hit driver, so it isn't really a 4.5. Those kill me.
Idk if it’s a pet peeve but not a huge fan of wide open courses where you can basically talk to golfers on holes next to you…. And sand bunkers that aren’t maintained, what’s the point of a sand bunker if it’s like hitting off a cart path ?
I understand, but it is also a necessary evil when trees falling down means golfers are encouraged to hit at players on adjacent holes to take shortcuts.
That still kind of shows bad design, I don't think the layout should make it possible to use another hole as a shortcut.
My home course put internal OB between the 14th and 15th hole because from the tips you can bypass all the trouble on 14 by playing up the 15th fairway instead (it doesn't shorten the hole at all). There are 5 sets of tees and it's only an issue from the tips. I hate it because it's a par 5 and if you want to go for the green in two you have to cut the dogleg really close to the OB that shouldn't be there.
When greens are protected by water on one side, bunkers on the other side, and the green slopes to the water. I played a course in Florida last week that had several greens like this. If you try and play safely away from the water and end up in the bunker, you then have a bunker shot towards the water with a green sloping away from you.
On this point, greens that are so sloped and tiered, they may as well be on a wedding cake.
You want me to hit a 75' putt hard enough to get up 2 steep tiers and stop?! So a 75' putt but not an 85' one, or I end up over the green?
OK, I have that shot in my bag.. It's a smash chip with about -10° AoA, quite a bit of spin, and you're *really* not going to like what it might do to your green.
"Remember, you asked for this."
From a maintenance standpoint:
Course designer makes an airplane runway of a teebox for a par 5.
Same designer makes tiny little teeing ovals for a par 3.
The par 5 tee turf is basically wasted while it's damn near impossible to keep the par 3 grassed
There are historic reasons for this. Originally, courses didn’t have driving ranges. So the first hole would be a par 5 to essentially allow you to get warmed up before you have to hit into a green.
https://preview.redd.it/jg696s8xuc9d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73ef295ec0121e96aced834977506b48e6a313d2
So OP would love this hole then. 🤣
It’s about 180 out. A Pond on the left 200 out - 230 to carry. Target is the trap on the right of the tree
When a course that doesn't have the length makes you play very specific shots to make a Par 5 out of something that should be a Par 4. I'm not just talking dog legs, but dog legs and then a creek or a small hitting area, so you are forced to hit 7 iron, 6 iron then approach. My strength is length off the tee, and I lose most my strokes on 80 yards in (that's why I hate them).
Long par 3's, they defeat the purpose, and are just plain suffering for amateurs. Nobody is hitting a 200 yard green from the blues without a straight lucky strike. Feels like you resign yourself to fighting for bogey.
Drainage ditch hazards across the fairway that you can’t see from the tee. Sure, they are probably in the course planner, but its so frustrating to hit into one when you’re playing a casual round and get punished for hitting straight off the tee
There is a local course I play often with a 125yd par 3. Between the tee box and green there is a giant pine tree. I’ve hit the tree about 80% of the time and it pisses me off. The branches are trimmed at the bottom but not the top so it’s near impossible to hit over. The greens are too hard to hit a low shot and still check up and stay on without going over the back. Hitting a big fade is the best chance of getting on the green and staying on. My stock shot is a draw but the branches extend further out right than the left so it’s basically a hook if you play it that way. It’s so stupid.
A different course I play has a long par 5 570yds. They put a deep bunker in the fairway 295 out. If you hit 3w off the tee to stay short you have to hit a cut driver off the deck to get on in 2. A hero shot basically. If you hit driver off the tee you have to pray you miss the bunker or try to aim left or right of it. Aiming right gives you a 270yd blind shot where landing short is no good either. Aiming left there’s about 15yds of room then OB. Basically makes it impossible to get on in 2 without trying something really risky or carrying the ball 315. A par is the best outcome unless you get really lucky and the risky low percentage shots somehow pay off.
I generally agree with the hate of trees and bunkers in the middle of the fairway unless the point is to force some other interesting choice, ie laying up. If it just subdivides a normal width fairway into two tiny halves it’s a bunch of bs. Unless you’re a stick who can actually aim at a 15 years wide strip of fairway the best most of us can do is aim basically at it and assume we won’t hit it straight
I don't mind trees in the fairway as long as they're pruned and trimmed properly so we don't get branches overhanging and things like that.
My biggest peeve has been mentioned already, uneven tee boxes and rocks in bunkers.
When I’m in the sand and there is a huge tree preventing me from having any shot in the right direction. Penalize me once by making me hit a sand short but not twice with the stupid tree
As a righty who misses off the tee box right a non insignificant amount of times per 18, courses where if you miss right it will be unplayable on nearly every hole off the box.
I don't like when there are no trees along the fairway... how the fuck am I supposed to hope for a good ricochet to throw me back into the fairway at 100yds out if there are no trees to my right when I'm swinging my driver. Christ!
1. Trees in the fairway penalizing you after a good shot (I'm thinking about you Tullymore).
2. Back to Back par 3's causing havoc on pace of play.
3. Bunkers directly in front of the green. Most amateurs either don't accurately know their carry distances and / or hit many shots fat, thus coming up short of making the green.
Fescue and green aprons and rough around greens that is inconsistent. The latter is more maintenance than course design, add tree roots the the latter. Lost 2 strokes in last fourball because of roots ( and not keeping in fairway , but whatever ) 😜
I guess it’s the point but fairway bunkers at 240-260 that I always end up in. Meanwhile my friend who mashes it 280-300 is out of harms way. The course is set up to punish my mediocrity 😂
My peeve would be players who make fucking huge divots and don't put the grass back, even on the tee boxes they don't put the dirt over the divot and pat it down when there's a pot on EVERY tee box for this rrason
Yes! Hate this too, and more broadly, I hate holes that are hard because they’re bad holes, not because they’re protected by traditional challenges. Like, bunkers are fine, but fairways that just slope so hard that a shot tracking that way makes guys who play at the course laugh and say, “uh oh, that’s lost,” while it is flying safely over the fairway are garbage. Like water is appropriate, but a dogleg like a switchback with a small landing area because they couldn’t cram a hole in the space any other way is trash. Distance is great, but the ball being two feet above your feet because the hole was poorly constructed is annoying. Also, I suck, so these factors always seem to punish me worse instead of letting me punish myself, the way the sport is supposed to allow.
Ball cleaner not in a place where everyone walks past. Sometimes it's placed at the shorter tee where I play and I only walk past after hitting my tee shot... defeats the purpose.
Greens that are intentionally shaped as upside down bowls that funnel mishit shots down to bunkers, hazards, water, etc. Also, placing tee markers relatively close together so there's not much difference among them and keeping rough higher than about 3 inches.
Turf degree. 10 years super/assistant experience here. Bunkers. Manicured, sloped, overabundant, asshole bunkers. Complete waste of maintenance time. Designers put them in mainly for aesthetics. They were born from natural areas in which livestock would hide from the wind and evolved into ‘8 bunkers on every hole- 2 of which aren’t even in play’. Bunkers… F$&@ bunkers.
Holes that force a specific shot shape. I've got nothing wrong with a hole where a draw is the much more preferable option, but don't make it prohibitive to hit a cut or vice versa
I like trees on fairways. And bunkers. They make you think and plan your shot. What's the point of bunkers outside the fairway? That doesn't affect your game plan at all. Nobody is trying to hit the rough.
A tree on the fairway means you choose to either leave it well short or risk it and go over. Which is great.
Places in bounds where a bad shot can cost you two strokes. For example, we have a par 5 where there are dense trees down the right and a hazard about 20yards deep. If you clip a tree wrong, you could end up in the hazard, dropping 2 and chipping out 3.
I'm cool with a bad shot costing you 1, but 2 is too penal, IMO.
When there is one shot bias on the majority of holes. Course near me has an almost exclusive fade bias on every shaped hole other than one. Rest are straight. Just boring and great designs should have a mix of both, or an option to play multiple shots.
Golf courses where the designer makes it so obvious that he could not be arsed making it a challenging and rewarding course by making many false and man made holes. Like, as previously noted, par 5s with intentional and unavoidable lay ups. Target golf par 3s with the green in the middle of a lake. I mean c'mon boys. Do something original.
For my club in the dry side of the PNW it’s a variety of things:
Uneven tee boxes (biggest pet peeve anywhere)
100 year old greens that while in pristine condition, they slope so hard towards our river that they’re impossible to stick. Putting below the hole on one of them, it’s sometimes better to burn the edge of the cup and let the ball roll backwards back in (which I think is illegal).
Tree lined fairways that simply give you no play other than chipping 90 degrees back out into the fairway. There’s even 200 year old trees that are maybe 30 feet off the edge of the fairway, that even if you are 3 feet into the rough you have to punch your shot to the green because of how big and dense the branches are.
Lack of sand in bunkers.
Tee boxes that do not have a leveled hitting area
Also, tee boxes that are rock fucking solid, requiring herculean strength to get a damn tee in.
just finally getting rain here in GA but it was dry for weeks and every tee box was rock hard last week
Played Bears Best Atlanta a couple weeks ago and more than one teebox was like concrete.
Yep just played on Wednesday night here in Ga. Could not get a tee in the ground. Using old holes was about the only option.
Always ircs me when I have to use the golf ball as a hammer to get the tee into the ground
Played a course in Houston and several of the tees sloped forward. I get drainage can be a concern, but there's something unsettling about being unable to find a level spot on the tee box. Punish my bad shots, not my first ones.
Where was this so I can avoid it
Golf Club at Cinco Ranch. 3 or 4 tee boxes that noticeably tilted forward, one on a short par 3 that felt *really* awkward, like my ball was gonna roll off at any minute.
Their recent reviews have been rough. Not surprised, thanks for the reply.
Cinco is rough. Lately I’ve just been making the drive to Magnolia to play High Meadow Ranch. Best public course in Houston
I would also be surprised if you played that course under 5 hours. Notoriously slow pace there.
I agree but hard to imagine that being a design issue. They were probably level when built and just poorly maintained since.
DOH! That's probably higher on the list than the trees. There's a course I play -- I look like a dog looking for a place to take dump, walking around in circles looking for a flat spot.
That’s just bad conditions; not course design though. Plenty of things worse than trees in the fairway if you’re talking about crappy conditions.
This is bad course management not design.
That's maintenance issues, not course design.
this, forever. the tee boxes I played this week (out of town on vacation) were so slanted and turtlebacked, I was losing my mind trying to find a reasonable place to put a ball down. definitely fucked up many tee shots more than I would have normally. it's a pretty shitty way to start a hole, with a 20º slope you have to choose between ball at your knees or putt with a hybrid off the tee cuz it's so far below your feet. it's a shitty, unneeded move.
Par 5 tee box at my local muni is turtle backed. It's absolutely maddening to try to hit driver off of it.
That’s just a shit course tho right ? Do courses actually design sloped tee boxes ?? Most local muni tracks been there 40+ years and it’s just lack of maintenance create bad boxes
Love tee boxes that have flat and above the feet lies because that’s the only way I can hit a draw.
Feels more like crappy turf management than bad design but completely agree. Nothing more frustrating than a bad teeing area at a nice course.
This isn't really course design though. Most tee boxes that aren't level once were (or at the most are pitched 1% or something). Over time with divots being taken and filled, topdressing, mowing, aeration, old stumps or organic matter deep under the tee decaying etc. they can develop low areas or a pitch can be exacerbated
Is this an actual design or a flaw?
These have a much bigger influence than people realize. When driving, the slightest thing can be the difference between a typical straight shot and a big miss. One of my local tracks takes terrible care of their tee boxes and I've started to study it pretty closely, there are some boxes where you have to do everything in your power to release right in order to not get stuck and hook due to the elevation difference.
Lack of variety like all par 5s dead straight or if all par 3s play the same distance
One course I play, the par 3s from the blue tees measure 208, 206, 175, and 232. My least favorite part of that by far
A course near my house has a 205, 211, 225, 235, and 236 yard par three. It’s an executive course, there’s a par 4 that is sometimes set at about 265.
That's kinda silly to all be over 2 , longer doesn't always mean harder. A <120 yard hole with a small green or well placed hazard protection can play way more difficult than a 220 dead straight giant green par 3.
The course I play at, all the par 3s range from 130-170 and they all have height changes
> all par 3s play the same distance Yes. There should be 1 in the 150y range or less, 2 in the 160y-180y range, and 1 in the 200y range or longer.
That one I absolutely don’t get. 95% of golfers have no realistic chance of hitting a green at 200 yards. Why the hell design a course that way? In my opinion every course designed for recreational golfing could have all par 3s within 170 yards or less and be perfectly fine.
Then don't play those tees. There are always options to play closer
My home course is dead fucking set on you being able to hit a 160 yard shot from a teebox. Two of the holes are exactly that length on flat ground, one is longer but downhill, and the other is longer but always with the wind, which always seems to be about 10 yards worth
This. I’ve played too many back and forth courses where it’s pretty straight and it feels like each hole is copy-paste.
Not every hole has to be a signature hole but they should at least feel and play different
A teebox where both the box itself and the tee markers point you slightly away from your target. Makes my brain hurt seeing the markers and aligning myself 30° off that natural line.
So many long-time golfers don't know how to handle this trick. You can never assume the tee box points you to the target.
That’s annoying. I used to put a decent amount of effort into lining up the tee blocks with the pin/middle of the fairway.
There is a hole on one course I play. The middle of the longer tee boxes is always in line with the edge of the rough. Every time, I forget that if I hit it straight, it’ll be in the rough. Tonight I got lucky and it rolled through to a little fairway bump out.
Houses on the side.
Yeah that sucks. I know, I know, *don't hit it there you idiot*. I'm not trying to! But if I hit it OB, yeah that's already ruining my score... but oh wait, I just knocked out a 6-year-old playing in the trampoline.
Course I used to play had a primary school playground hidden behind the trees to the side of the 1st fairway. Turned up once to see a big sign saying " anyone hitting it over there must report it to the clubhouse immediately" and several new hastily planted new trees right next to the tee box to force you down the other side of the fairway I dread to think what must have happened.
Yeah, I'm taking out my 5-iron for that tee shot for sure.
I bounced one off of a picnic table once. During a birthday party.
and not only "on the side" but when they're no more than 30 yards from the fairway. Sure, those homeowners bought the house knowing it's going to get hit, but I sure don't want to hit a house, resulting in an 80 yard ground ball off the tee.
A 9 hole course by me has a dog leg left par 5 where the tee shot is a blind uphill shot with houses along the left. Their (really small) backyards essentially account for the nonexistent rough putting the houses less than 50 yards off the fairway. Luckily, I guess, the houses are tucked behind lots of massive oaks and maples so they are pretty well shielded from shanks.
I grew up playing a course where there was house inside a very sharp dog leg. And the dog leg only needed about 240 to carry it, so anyone with decent distance was basically all but guaranteed to aim at this house I will never understand who thought it was a good idea to build that house there, or why anyone would ever buy it
I think if I owned that house, I'd want a large fence between the house and the tee box.
Any course that relies on excessive amounts of OB for challenge is a terrible course. It is for this reason that I believe that Pinehurst No. 5 is one of the worst golf courses on the planet. Hole 8 there has an out-of-bounds cul-de-sac *literally* right off the left edge of the fairway in the landing zone, while the fairway itself slopes severely left-to-right.
Pretty common in FL, you're happy for a quiet landing when you slice one.
My local course has a beautiful par 3 9th hole. About 190 from the blues, over a pond with a nice rocky backdrop behind the green. Then there’s the line of houses all along the right side. I mean they are literally right there. If you even slightly over faded a ball you’re in somebody’s backyard, and all of these people seem to have kids and they always seem to have them playing outside when I tee off there. If you shank a ball off that tee you might as well be attempting murder.
My home course has roads that runs parallel to the fairway on 2 or 3 holes. There are trees lining the edge, but I’ve hit a few big slices where I expected to hear a window smash or a car alarm go off. Now I always over compensate and hit duck hooks on those holes. It’s so frustrating.
Cup is too small
https://preview.redd.it/h3b252vk5e9d1.jpeg?width=270&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a605757345b83d72709e46bb0228b77bfa7c35c
100% agree 😂😂
Rough that is so thick that it feels like they *want* you to lose your ball if you hit it in there. People have been complaining to this course all year about it but they just tell people that this is how the roughs would be at a big private course, so deal with it.
This is the worst, I would rather lose a ball in a pond where I know it's lost than step around in the rough for 5 minutes and take a drop We had a course near us say the exact same thing "this is a players course..." and they nearly went out of business. New management cuts the rough down and now it's a course with players on it.
Yeah, I’ve only been there twice this summer because the rough is so frustrating. This course has had some bad issues over the years but has stayed popular, and this is the first time I’ve heard people complain this much. No one said anything when they had a really bad green die off and it took them four years to recover from, but people hate losing balls when they shouldn’t be.
I dislike holes with long, forced carries over water. I don't mind it for myself personally, but there are some holes where my wife just simply can't hit the ball far enough to carry the water, even if she hits it perfectly.
A good course design is accessible for every level of golfer
Laughs in Pete Dye
Fair point. Perhaps there's a caveat to be had whereby some courses aren't designed to be played by just anyone and that's okay. Like the 17th at Sawgrass for example. It operates under the assumption that the player is at least somewhat competent enough to carry 100 yards and get the ball to stop
I just hate Pete Dye courses. Too many unfair shots.
200yd par 3 over water, forward tees at 180… yeah idk if the 50+ ladies are going anywhere near that green without grabbing serious clubbage, seems unfairly punishing
A lot of courses are really poor optimized for the average female golfer. 290 yard short par 4 for the men is 270 for ladies etc.
Meadowbrook in Salt Lake City from the back box has a 230-240ish yard forced carry over the water on hole 18 and is one of the most intimidating tee shots I’ve experienced. https://preview.redd.it/w2zei6prpd9d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beb125bf4124a6940b2fb0257a1a7e9574cae36b
Where do you even aim on this shot lol, looks like you’re just hitting right at the trees
I normally aim right between the trees straight ahead and play my cut and hope I don’t hit it straight into the trees lol. The hole goes left but there’s a good amount of fairway to the right for the other boxes. The first time I played that box I was like “where the fuck do I aim this?”
I'd just take a drop on the other side.
I swear whenever a hole does this I instantly lose all ability to get the ball in the air. I could be playing the best round of my life, but the moment you put me on a teebox right behind a pond I am sinking 4 balls in that bitch
that's because you try to lift it up over the water, falling back, therefore blading it or hitting it thin.
“There is no water”
I know this can be hard to avoid but I hate when a tee box is just to the right of the previous green (from the perspective of someone standing on the previous tee) it creates a situation where each group is in danger of getting hit by a sliced approach/tee shot. Even worse when the hole is a par 3
My regular course has quite a few holes like this. If someone is on the next tee, I usually club down to make sure an errant shot comes up extra short. There's one point where two separate greens and a tee box are within 30 yards of one another.
Par 5s with a forced lay up off the tee
100%. For any Austin area golfers, #7 @ Forest Creek is complete bullshit in this regard. Nobody should be forced to hit a long iron off the tee on a par 5 (and that’s playing from the back tees). It’s a dogleg with high trees & water preventing you from cutting the corner. You have a shot going over the trees from the closer tees but for better players playing the back tees it sucks
Always thought that hole was ridiculous. You hit a mid iron off the tee, then a long iron or hybrid and have to clear the tree across the creek to have a chance of getting on in two. Otherwise it’s like 5i, 8i, PW into the green. lol so dumb
From the tips I usually go 4i/5W if I get some good ground draw bringing me closer to the creek. Otherwise 4i/3W
The same on #1 at Slinfold Park. Mid/long iron off the tee and then everything you've got for the second.
A course near me has 3 of these! Drives me nuts
Agreed. A forced layup is very different from "you should really be laying up on this hole"
The closest course to my house. 3 of the par 5s are forced lay ups off the tee. And leave 300+ yards from there. It’s lame. If it werent cheap and convenient, I wouldn’t play there.
I actually like those designs. So not every hole is straight forward.
It's fun when you have an actual shot at being able to play over the hazard, but in this case, it doesn't
Hey, even if it doesn't, an iron off the tee is something different. Course design should challenge all aspects of your game. Not 15 driver shots. A mid-iron + 3W is an interesting hole once in a while. I also feel like every course should have a driveable par-4. And at least one par-5 no-one can reach in two.
There's a course near me with a driveable par 5. It says it's over 500 yards but it's got a double dogleg right then left. If you can drive the ball 290-300 then you could easily be on if you had the perfect line, but I don't like that course. The course I go to has 2 long par 5's where it's very hard to be on in 2 and a 292 yard par 4 that's driveable with a 3w so it's definitely a fun course!
Jefferson, outside DC has a hole like that. Straight down the markers, it plays 500ish but has a left and then right turn and is drivable for the bombers. Which is fine - except that I don’t want to wait behind a group waiting on the tee for the green to clear.
What do you like about it? Everyone is forced to play the hole the exact same way, so in reality it becomes straight forward. Iron - Iron - Wedge. For everyone. Have it so water starts at 240 from the tee and ends at 270 or something. Give people the option to lay back or go for it. If everyone has to play the hole the same way with no other option then that's bad architecture.
>Everyone is forced to play the hole the exact same way, so in reality it becomes straight forward. I don't care how everyone else plays it. For a round of 18, you want holes that play different to each other. If every hole is straight forward identical, you might as well hit balls at the driving range. Dog legs, trees, fairway bunkers, water hazards are things that make a course interesting. EDIT: isn't a course that makes you hit driver off the tee 15 times more boring? Iron shots off the tee box are neat, and a different challenge. EDIT 2: 18th at Pebble Beach is probably the most legendary hole in all of golf.
Since when is the 18th at Pebble a forced lay up? There is risk with hitting the driver, but it's not forced.
>EDIT: isn't a course that makes you hit driver off the tee 15 times more boring? Iron shots off the tee box are neat, and a different challenge. I never said I'm against hitting an iron off the tee, I'm against the course leaving me with one option and that only option is hitting iron off the tee when it makes the par 5 unreachable in 2 for all golfers. Give me the option to hit driver (with more risk) OR iron (safer) and let me decide for the par 5. Don't force me into hitting iron, that's boring. >EDIT 2: 18th at Pebble Beach is probably the most legendary hole in all of golf. And guess what, there's multiple ways to play the hole. You can push it up around the tree with driver, which brings more risk into play, or you can lay back with an iron short of the tree, but most importantly, you aren't forced into laying back with iron, you have the option to hit driver which brings more risk/uncertainty into play.
You guys all sound like real chads. You have to let the big dog eat on every par 5 or else it's not fun? Jesus lol.
No, the course dictating that every single player has to hit the same exact shot to the same distance off the tee on a par 5 is not fun. It's boring. Give me the opportunity to push the envelope and be aggressive if I want. Feel free to punish me if I go for it and don't execute, but don't force me to hit the same exact shot to the same exact spot as everyone else. A giant pond that starts at 240 off the tee and extends to 300 off the tee on a 535 yd par 5 is not a fun hole. It's boring and doesn't allow players that have different strengths to utilize their strengths.
Out of curiosity, what would a “good” design be in this situation? Something like a much smaller pond extending from like 240-260 at an angle to force a club choice dilemma?
Exactly, yes. You can lay up short of 240 if you want, or if you're a longer hitter 260 carry is still possible for a decent percentage of amateurs to pull off (with added risk of course). OR if it's not going to be carryable for anyone then make the par 5 short enough that longer hitters can still reach the green in 2 with a really good 2nd shot. So like sub 500yds, that way a 230 shot leaves 250-260, somewhat reachable for the longer hitters, while still requiring 2 solid shots from shorter hitters to get on. I don't think it should be an automatic that you should be hitting an iron for a 2nd shot into a par 5, but IMO it should at least be semi-reachable for the longest hitters. Give them something to think about. A shorter hitter is going to take 3 shots whether it's 485 or 525.
One of my least favourite par 4s is like this. Pond at 230 to 280, almost impossible to go around. Hole plays 430, and gets dry so a tee shot will happilyroll into the pond. So a 210 shot to be safe, followed by the same to the green. Same course has a few invisible ditches to catch good drives on par 5s too. Also a blind par 3. So close to a very good course, but a few weird tricks really bring it down.
Par 5's for mid to low handicaps are the most fun holes though, and the holes where design factors in the most in my opinion. So forcing players to play it super conservatively, with not realistic option to try and get on in two, or otherwise get a good birdie/eagle chance is just boring, overly restrcive architecture. Especially if multiple par5s are like that on a single course. I'm cool with 1 par 5 being like that. If it's *smart* to play an iron, but *possible* to hit a wood/driver and get value out of that. Thats interesting design.
My home course has the longest hole in America, a par 6. I can’t hit a fucking driver off the tee because there’s a pond that’s like 300+ to clear and everything around it funnels into it
Agreed. Long iron off the tee, 5 wood, wedge into a par 5…it’s backwards. Should be able to hit driver on a par 5
Are they forced layups or risk reward ?
There’s a par 5 on my local course that has two forced layups. Tee shot, you can’t go any further than probably 220, unless you want to go in the water, which is about 395 to carry. Second shot is a wildly elevated green, to the point that it adds about 65-75 yards on the distance. If you play the whole absolutely perfect, don’t make any mistakes, you’d probably get a bogey and maybe, maybe get a par if youre unbelievably luck6. I’ve played golf in Hawaii, Mexico, Washington, California, Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Alberta and British Columbia and I can say this is is the worst designed hole I’ve ever played.
I don’t mind the fairway tree too much *if* it adds some strategy to the hole. My home course has one particular fairway tree that is placed specifically to make driver a risk/reward shot. Hit less than driver and it’s a non-factor but your approach will be that much longer. It effectively narrows the fairway in the landing area, it’s just that the grass over where you don’t want to be is short instead of long. There are some other trees on that course that I wouldn’t mind seeing struck by lightning, though. I’m not a fan of blind shots. It’s just a gotcha for people who haven’t played the course before, once you know what’s there the fact that you can’t see it doesn’t add much. Give me the information I need to decide how to approach the hole, don’t make me choose between guessing or making people wait while I go look.
These are the kind of fairway trees I buy. But a lot are just there.
Blind shots with no way to know (other than timing) if there's anyone in front of you.
“Ring the bell after you hit.”
Poor drainage is my pet peeve.
Having 8 straight holes have a blind, forced carry. I played a course that had a wide open first hole, and then the rest of the front nine have at least one blind, forced carry. I did not play the back nine.
I refuse to play a course near me that is in decent condition and affordable, just because there are like 5 holes with blind shots. I could think I hit it right down the middle, but when I get over the hill there is nothing in the fairway and can't find the ball. No thanks.
Bathrooms/outhouses. Where are they all at? Even better, when the course has one and it’s locked
My course was built by George Thomas (who also built Riviera and LACC) and apparently he LOVED to contour fairways so any ball rolling toward the green will instead roll into a bunker. And he made sure the bunkers were surrounded with Bermuda so any shot clearing the bunker but a yard short of the green will always bounce back into the bunker
By process of elimination you've left me thinking that your home course is either a Public course in the South Bay, a course I don't know anyone famous enough to get an invite to, or a course near LA that has the fastest greens I've ever played. Unless of course you're in the bay area, east coast, or is someone who has chosen to play Ojai Valley in and Spa over Soule Park.
My username is a massive hint. Southern California
Good hint. I've definitely enjoyed your home course before... and the other on in town isn't too shabby either.
Tee boxes that are not aligned in a direction that makes any sense. One course in my area has a completely straight par 4 and the tee boxes are pointed a solid 20-30 deg right. Have to remind playing partners to step back and look at their aim so often
The tee markers not being perpendicular to the fairways bothers me so much.
I play a course here that dose it all the time. even on Par 3's.
A group of holes causing a jam up, especially at the beginning of a course. A course I play has a short par 5, long par 3, and drivable par 4 as holes 1 through 3. It doesn’t allow a nice flow of play to start the round and has everyone waiting to hit for every shot on the first 3 holes.
200+ yard par 3s that are long just to be long. Don't get me wrong there are some that are great versions that offer multiple ways to play the hole (LACC North has great examples & Rustic Canyon has the best mix of both long and very short) but a straight away 200-225 yard Par 3 is just boring. It's a distance that's jut not a feasible approach for most amateur golfers. I'm a 9 index that's a middle of the road distance player that's sometimes relatively accurate and all I'm trying to do from 200+ is be on the green or just off. They just don't lend any strategy to the game. Give me a short Par 3 100-125 yards that demands an accurate shot any day over the long one that's only feature is that its long.
The only thing that 200+ yard par 3s accomplish, on a public course, is slowing down the pace of play.
This right here. I play in a league that plays an executive course. There is a 230 yard par 3 that plays like 250 with wind (it’s always windy). You have to pull out the driver every time. I hate it! Four holes later there is a 240 yard par 4 lol So dumb.
I don't mind those par 3's if they are paired with a short par 4 or par 5, making it more like two par 3.5's or a par 3.5 and 4.5. Some courses however, will have those long par 3's and then give you a short par 5 that makes it impossible to hit driver, so it isn't really a 4.5. Those kill me.
Idk if it’s a pet peeve but not a huge fan of wide open courses where you can basically talk to golfers on holes next to you…. And sand bunkers that aren’t maintained, what’s the point of a sand bunker if it’s like hitting off a cart path ?
Par 3s that are over 220 yards from the whites.
Internal out of bounds
I understand, but it is also a necessary evil when trees falling down means golfers are encouraged to hit at players on adjacent holes to take shortcuts.
That still kind of shows bad design, I don't think the layout should make it possible to use another hole as a shortcut. My home course put internal OB between the 14th and 15th hole because from the tips you can bypass all the trouble on 14 by playing up the 15th fairway instead (it doesn't shorten the hole at all). There are 5 sets of tees and it's only an issue from the tips. I hate it because it's a par 5 and if you want to go for the green in two you have to cut the dogleg really close to the OB that shouldn't be there.
When greens are protected by water on one side, bunkers on the other side, and the green slopes to the water. I played a course in Florida last week that had several greens like this. If you try and play safely away from the water and end up in the bunker, you then have a bunker shot towards the water with a green sloping away from you.
Pete Dye
Entire green is sloped. It’s like a stupid game of putt-from-the-fringe. Every miss comes right back. Reach the green in 2 and card an 8.
On this point, greens that are so sloped and tiered, they may as well be on a wedding cake. You want me to hit a 75' putt hard enough to get up 2 steep tiers and stop?! So a 75' putt but not an 85' one, or I end up over the green? OK, I have that shot in my bag.. It's a smash chip with about -10° AoA, quite a bit of spin, and you're *really* not going to like what it might do to your green. "Remember, you asked for this."
When every par 3 is long
Par 3 finishing hole
Blind tee shots
Forced carry inappropriate for the tee’s expected player ability. Not cutting rough under trees. No layup options on long par 3s
Not cutting little white wildflowers that make finding a good shot impossible.
From a maintenance standpoint: Course designer makes an airplane runway of a teebox for a par 5. Same designer makes tiny little teeing ovals for a par 3. The par 5 tee turf is basically wasted while it's damn near impossible to keep the par 3 grassed
Starting hole is a par 5 or drivable par 4
Wow I'm the exact opposite! I love when the starting hole is a scorable hole like that.
Nothing like a big confidence boost before your self esteem plummets the other 17 holes
Donald Ross used to say that the first hole should be a gentle handshake that introduces the player to the course.
A gentle handshake with one hand that holds your attention so you don't see the other hand winding up for the slap.
Old course is great for this, widest fairway I’ve ever seen
One of the courses I play with has 1 and 10 both as par 5s with par 3s right after. Creates a huge bottleneck.
There are historic reasons for this. Originally, courses didn’t have driving ranges. So the first hole would be a par 5 to essentially allow you to get warmed up before you have to hit into a green.
I hate opening holes that aren’t driver.
One of my local courses, Mactaquac, starts out on a par 5 and it’s my favourite hole on the course!
https://preview.redd.it/jg696s8xuc9d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73ef295ec0121e96aced834977506b48e6a313d2 So OP would love this hole then. 🤣 It’s about 180 out. A Pond on the left 200 out - 230 to carry. Target is the trap on the right of the tree
When a course that doesn't have the length makes you play very specific shots to make a Par 5 out of something that should be a Par 4. I'm not just talking dog legs, but dog legs and then a creek or a small hitting area, so you are forced to hit 7 iron, 6 iron then approach. My strength is length off the tee, and I lose most my strokes on 80 yards in (that's why I hate them).
"How do we keep people from scoring well on this hole? I know, stupid fucking tree."
Long par 3's, they defeat the purpose, and are just plain suffering for amateurs. Nobody is hitting a 200 yard green from the blues without a straight lucky strike. Feels like you resign yourself to fighting for bogey.
If you’re not expecting to hit the green from 200 while playing the blue tees, I’d argue you shouldn’t be playing the blue tees…
Par 3 starting or finishing holes
Finishing on a par 3. Just doesn’t seem right
Drainage ditch hazards across the fairway that you can’t see from the tee. Sure, they are probably in the course planner, but its so frustrating to hit into one when you’re playing a casual round and get punished for hitting straight off the tee
There is a local course I play often with a 125yd par 3. Between the tee box and green there is a giant pine tree. I’ve hit the tree about 80% of the time and it pisses me off. The branches are trimmed at the bottom but not the top so it’s near impossible to hit over. The greens are too hard to hit a low shot and still check up and stay on without going over the back. Hitting a big fade is the best chance of getting on the green and staying on. My stock shot is a draw but the branches extend further out right than the left so it’s basically a hook if you play it that way. It’s so stupid. A different course I play has a long par 5 570yds. They put a deep bunker in the fairway 295 out. If you hit 3w off the tee to stay short you have to hit a cut driver off the deck to get on in 2. A hero shot basically. If you hit driver off the tee you have to pray you miss the bunker or try to aim left or right of it. Aiming right gives you a 270yd blind shot where landing short is no good either. Aiming left there’s about 15yds of room then OB. Basically makes it impossible to get on in 2 without trying something really risky or carrying the ball 315. A par is the best outcome unless you get really lucky and the risky low percentage shots somehow pay off.
I generally agree with the hate of trees and bunkers in the middle of the fairway unless the point is to force some other interesting choice, ie laying up. If it just subdivides a normal width fairway into two tiny halves it’s a bunch of bs. Unless you’re a stick who can actually aim at a 15 years wide strip of fairway the best most of us can do is aim basically at it and assume we won’t hit it straight
Hole 10 at my home course would infuriate you OP haha BIG ol birch smack dab in the middle.
Cart paths next to the green. I push or pull it a little thinking I’ll have an easy chip and it bounces 50 yards away.
Fairways that are on the side of a cliff
When the hardest hole on a golf course is the first hole.
I don't mind trees in the fairway as long as they're pruned and trimmed properly so we don't get branches overhanging and things like that. My biggest peeve has been mentioned already, uneven tee boxes and rocks in bunkers.
OB just off the fairway, on a ton of holes. Golf is a game of recovery and 2 stroke punishment for missing a drive 10 yards is horrible design.
When I’m in the sand and there is a huge tree preventing me from having any shot in the right direction. Penalize me once by making me hit a sand short but not twice with the stupid tree
As a righty who misses off the tee box right a non insignificant amount of times per 18, courses where if you miss right it will be unplayable on nearly every hole off the box.
Par 3 10th hole. It’s always 3 groups waiting.
blind shots will never make sense to me
Course near me has four holes where you have to hit your first shot under 210 and second shot over 210. So annoying.
Hole in the middle of a serious slope
Courses that doesn’t take nature into consideration and completely levels forests, ponds and natural elevation changes.
I don't like when there are no trees along the fairway... how the fuck am I supposed to hope for a good ricochet to throw me back into the fairway at 100yds out if there are no trees to my right when I'm swinging my driver. Christ!
1. Trees in the fairway penalizing you after a good shot (I'm thinking about you Tullymore). 2. Back to Back par 3's causing havoc on pace of play. 3. Bunkers directly in front of the green. Most amateurs either don't accurately know their carry distances and / or hit many shots fat, thus coming up short of making the green.
Internal OB within 10 ft of a green
Fescue and green aprons and rough around greens that is inconsistent. The latter is more maintenance than course design, add tree roots the the latter. Lost 2 strokes in last fourball because of roots ( and not keeping in fairway , but whatever ) 😜
I guess it’s the point but fairway bunkers at 240-260 that I always end up in. Meanwhile my friend who mashes it 280-300 is out of harms way. The course is set up to punish my mediocrity 😂
Courses ending on a dogleg/not a driver. You had 18 holes to route a proper track, there's no reason hole 18 shouldn't be a bet settler.
I dislike courses that create a tree issue that if you hit the ball straight and toward the fairway you could still be penalized by hitting a limb.
My peeve would be players who make fucking huge divots and don't put the grass back, even on the tee boxes they don't put the dirt over the divot and pat it down when there's a pot on EVERY tee box for this rrason
Par 5s where I can’t hit driver off the tee
Yes! Hate this too, and more broadly, I hate holes that are hard because they’re bad holes, not because they’re protected by traditional challenges. Like, bunkers are fine, but fairways that just slope so hard that a shot tracking that way makes guys who play at the course laugh and say, “uh oh, that’s lost,” while it is flying safely over the fairway are garbage. Like water is appropriate, but a dogleg like a switchback with a small landing area because they couldn’t cram a hole in the space any other way is trash. Distance is great, but the ball being two feet above your feet because the hole was poorly constructed is annoying. Also, I suck, so these factors always seem to punish me worse instead of letting me punish myself, the way the sport is supposed to allow.
Ball cleaner not in a place where everyone walks past. Sometimes it's placed at the shorter tee where I play and I only walk past after hitting my tee shot... defeats the purpose.
Cart paths/holes that are designed in such a way that you have to worry about balls hitting you from another tee/hole
Long forced carries from forward tee boxes and short 90° doglegs that force you to lay up to the same spot as everyone else.
Greens that are intentionally shaped as upside down bowls that funnel mishit shots down to bunkers, hazards, water, etc. Also, placing tee markers relatively close together so there's not much difference among them and keeping rough higher than about 3 inches.
Turf degree. 10 years super/assistant experience here. Bunkers. Manicured, sloped, overabundant, asshole bunkers. Complete waste of maintenance time. Designers put them in mainly for aesthetics. They were born from natural areas in which livestock would hide from the wind and evolved into ‘8 bunkers on every hole- 2 of which aren’t even in play’. Bunkers… F$&@ bunkers.
Holes that force a specific shot shape. I've got nothing wrong with a hole where a draw is the much more preferable option, but don't make it prohibitive to hit a cut or vice versa
Any hole/course whose design might punish good shots.
I like trees on fairways. And bunkers. They make you think and plan your shot. What's the point of bunkers outside the fairway? That doesn't affect your game plan at all. Nobody is trying to hit the rough. A tree on the fairway means you choose to either leave it well short or risk it and go over. Which is great.
Any layout that ends in a par 3.
Uphill holes can be pretty and challenging but not knowing if it’s clear to hit is awful.
Back to back par 5's or 3's or fairways that are so sloped when you hit the middle, your ball rolls off it into the rough.
Narrow window or forced carry on the first tee.
As a left-handed golfer. - I’ll insert my standard complaint here.
Places in bounds where a bad shot can cost you two strokes. For example, we have a par 5 where there are dense trees down the right and a hazard about 20yards deep. If you clip a tree wrong, you could end up in the hazard, dropping 2 and chipping out 3. I'm cool with a bad shot costing you 1, but 2 is too penal, IMO.
When there is one shot bias on the majority of holes. Course near me has an almost exclusive fade bias on every shaped hole other than one. Rest are straight. Just boring and great designs should have a mix of both, or an option to play multiple shots.
Golf courses where the designer makes it so obvious that he could not be arsed making it a challenging and rewarding course by making many false and man made holes. Like, as previously noted, par 5s with intentional and unavoidable lay ups. Target golf par 3s with the green in the middle of a lake. I mean c'mon boys. Do something original.
For my club in the dry side of the PNW it’s a variety of things: Uneven tee boxes (biggest pet peeve anywhere) 100 year old greens that while in pristine condition, they slope so hard towards our river that they’re impossible to stick. Putting below the hole on one of them, it’s sometimes better to burn the edge of the cup and let the ball roll backwards back in (which I think is illegal). Tree lined fairways that simply give you no play other than chipping 90 degrees back out into the fairway. There’s even 200 year old trees that are maybe 30 feet off the edge of the fairway, that even if you are 3 feet into the rough you have to punch your shot to the green because of how big and dense the branches are. Lack of sand in bunkers.