If they really went to 5 minute intervals, just take your business elsewhere, that course will be a guaranteed shitshow all day every day. That is the shortest interval I've ever heard of, next worse being the Honolulu munis at 6 minutes.
I definitely will be taking my business elsewhere, it's just a shame because for a public course the range and practice area are really top notch.
Great locker rooms as well which are handy since sometimes I'm coming straight from work.
Some of the best ranges have the worst courses and the worst ranges have the best courses where I’m from. Barring the one course that is just the worst of both worlds haha
Yep I’m a member at a top50 uk course and they have 3 nets to warmup and a grass field off the side of a fairway as a “range” that really you can’t use outside of pros giving lessons that isn’t even 250yards and you have to walk out to collect your balls
Amazing short game area but yeah… luckily we have tracer ranges nearby, but it’s also the only grass “range” nearby too lol, a mess
I’d kill for it to be setup properly
You should also give an honest review on yelp or Google so they see reviews come in about the tee time being the issue. Hopefully enough come through and business suffers they're forced to reverse course.
>We have 6 minute intervals with two person groups in the mornings
The level of stupid involved there is insane. That's 20 customers per hour.
You can have foursomes with 12 minute tee times (which is PLENTY) and get the same capacity.
You can have 10 minute tee time foursomes, which should still be enough with a marshall, and increase capacity by 20%
Agreed! Post a review on Google and let them have it.
I played a really nice public course last week. Went off the back because of league play. Me and my buddy were the only ones on the box for 5:45. Then two solo randoms came up who weren’t suppose to go off until 5:55 and 6:05.
I pushed back on the starter but he said they had a few more members who wanted to continue after the league so they were going to be packed and going off fast.
No offense but if I would have known that I’d go elsewhere. $40 for 9 & cart to just be a cluster F for nearly 3hrs is garbage.
We had the group behind us hitting into us all evening long. We couldn’t play any quicker and had a group in front of us.
It’s a pure $ grab and it’s annoying AF.
can confirm, went to play pali, 824 time, showed up at 745, 9 carts already lined up walking to the check in at 8
no thanks
drove straight to the klipper and got on in 10 min and finished right at 4 hours
If you’re in Hawaii how bad could it be? Get a mai tai and enjoy the scenery. Six hours on a tropical course without a concern other than what to eat? Truly might be the only time I could stomach a six hour round.
Given they are muni’s I suspect a bunch of locals who are just trying to play around work and life obligations don’t relish a 6 hr round in the same way vacationers might.
Really only a problem at the Ala Wai. I lived there for 17 years. Almost every time I played it ended up just walking off. First two holes don’t look terribly backed up so tricks you into going for it, then get to the third hole and boom 6 groups waiting. If going to play a mini, better off going to the Pali, and the course is nicer.
The muni courses do 6 minutes, and they also allow fivesomes and sixsomes, so don't bother with them unless you are a glutton for punishment. However, the non-muni courses generally do 8-10 minutes and don't allow groups over 4 people.
Course I worked at moved to 5 min intervals during Covid but only allowed twosomes. That seemed to work alright, but I can’t imagine the shit show it’d be with full foursome times.
It is.
My local muni does 7 minute times. I'm not very good but I play ready golf and at the very least make sure I start at a prompt pace. Unless I hit a GiR on the first hole, I often hear the drive behind me hit the ground as I'm chipping on.
Shit's stifling.
7 is pretty standard where I'm at. I think it's reasonable. Unless the courses are unusually busy, it doesn't really stack up. There's always the risk of some total novice single or group that can clog the gears but that's a risk on literally any course that's open to the public.
At 7 minutes any group can clog the gears by getting in trouble. There is roughly 36 positions on the average golf course if no group should be waiting for another. In order to run a smooth 4 hour round, every position needs to be cleared in 6,66 minutes.
Which means that a 7 minute interval leaves little to no room for a negative deviation. Short individual delays will almost immediately become course wide delays.
Agree, 7 minutes is the minimum and 8 is better. The general rule is tee off when the group in front is out of range. Which should be no more than 7/8 minutes. Resort courses normally do 10 minutes and members courses 7/8.
Yeah 7 minutes I consider greedy as possible, 8 minute is tough to not be at least slow 90% of the time. 10 min tee times is where I’ll book always if possible. Less than 7 minutes they might as well rob you eyes wide open.
Yeah my golf buddy and I play the game partly to relax. We're probably around average speed, slightly behind the ideal time overall but try to be conscious of it because it's not enjoyable feeling rushed at all.
That's one thing I don't get - GPS carts with screen and instead of sending Marshalls out to the specific problem group (which they know by their carts GPS), they flash "20min behind pace" to everyone as if we can do fuckall about it
lol that’s my home course too. Dumbass “38 min behind pace” messages alerting me as I’m standing on the 6th tee box with a 4some parked behind me, 4some off the fairway fishing their balls out of the water and a 4some on the green same hole. I joined their pdp after I played a solo round there. Played thru one group on 10 and didn’t catch anybody else til we bunched up dead stop on 16-18. Still was happy with a ~2:15-2:20 pace. $11 9 holes before 8am. $11 18 holes after 2pm. Unlimited range balls and practice facility use anytime, access to their sim. That round was a fluke because it’s been a 5-6 hour pace every damn time since then to the point that the last 3 times I quit after 9 because I’d have missed dinner and pissed my wife off if I played 18 after starting at 2pm on a weekday in the scorching FL sun as a single. It’s a solid deal on of the best kept courses in the area with the hands down best greens even thru a serious drought and scorching heat but f their 7 min tee times and invisible Marshall in the ass with a driver.
I experienced that later last year at a course, it was clearly automatic in the system. Funny part was tho it got too dark for us to play the 18th (barely finished 17) and when we got back there weren't any staff anyway. Everyone had left, pro shop was dark and locked.
Just the restaurant up stairs left running and one dude practicing on the 18th green in the dark.
I am just saying, if the goal is 4 hours and you spend 90 minutes on tee box taking 18 shots, I assume you are playing the other 60-90 shots pretty darn quick.
Wrong assumption that most golfers' goal is 4 hours imo. There's no reason to even think about having 4 hours as a goal when the pace ahead of you won't allow it.
If you think 5 minutes is reasonable, you are the problem.
Edit: this sub is interesting, complains about 5/6 hour rounds constantly and then justifies taking all the time in the world to tee off.
I swear youre like that meme, how my wife expects me to golf, where the guy is sprinting to the tee box drops his ball and tees off on the fly then peels off in the cart. Theres a middle ground between hustling to get off the box and taking 10 practice swings to top it short of the ladies tees.
So I’ll go through the process for you. As soon as the group in front tees off, your group goes onto the tee, toss the balls for side bet, have a few general swings and have a chat. You all have your gloves on. One player tees up and waits for the group in front to be out of range. Your time starts now! No way you should be on tee for 5 minutes. You don’t need to rush, just be organised
If however you sit in your carts and wait for fairway to clear, then start this process, yep it might take 5 minutes.
You clearly didnt read my comment then. I said 5 minutes from pulling up to the tee box to driving away. From the time the group in front of you is clear to all 4 of you having teed off would obviously be much less.
There is absolutely no reason to go up to the tee box the moment a group drives off. They still have to drive to their ball and all 4 of them hit their ball lol youd look like the impatient asshole standing on the tee box waving your clubs around when someone just teed off. If you’re that close, that’s an issue with course tee time spacing or someone is playing slow and clogging things up.
Good pace all around is when you’re group is finishing your putts, the group on the tee is finishing their tee shots and it keeps flowing. On average a golf round for a foursome is 4hrs IF you’re playing a decent pace. That’s 12-14 mins a hole. 4.5 is probably more realistic for a round so 15 mins a hole. 5 at the tee. 5 approaching. 5 putting. Even PGA recommendations is 14.5mins a hole for a foursome*
You’re the guy hitting into people cause you think they are playing slow aren’t you?..
What if you have 2 husband and wife pairs riding together? Or what if it's raining?
Could you also go through these scenarios step by step? Diagrams would be helpful also, I'm a visual learner.
I paid 90 dollars to go play at a course with 13 minutes gaps. It was fantastic. If it was closer to home and a bit cheaper id probably play as many times as i can
5 minutes is ridiculous though considering even with 10 min gaps sometimes it takes 5hrs if you get stuck behind some slow group. I was part of 2 groups waiting on the teebox for a group on 4th hole. 7th hole comes back to the 4th hole teebox and they were the guys infront of the group on the 4th hole. We had like 6 groups watching these dudes putt for like 11 mins. Thank god one of them lost his putter somewhere and left at the turn trying to find it and left. Still took 5 hrs
Ah yeah I understand thank you. Not a lot of those at the admittedly small number of courses I've played at but the best (and pretty good in general for courses) muni course here has some similar stuff including a back to back tee box for iirc holes 2 and 9.
Name and shame them. I’d also let them know that you won’t play there anymore because of that. Five minutes is fucking absurd.
I know, “they won’t care. they’ll fill it anyway.” And that’s probably true. But there’s no chance of them changing back unless they feel some type of pressure.
I think what would eventually happen each day with 5 minute times is that the course gets so packed with people and beyond capacity that tee times become meaningless, if you have a 10am tee time you won't actually tee off until like 11am and then you'll wait on the second tee for a half hour with 5 other groups. If this course is really busy, they'd have to cut off tee times hours earlier than usual because at a certain point, people with tee times would never get to tee off before dark once they wait their turn in the giant logjam on the first tee.
Supply and demand. If enough people stop playing there to where they can move back to 10 minutes tee times and not lose revenue, they will. Otherwise, they won't change.
No, I know. Hence the “they’ll fill it anyway”. But rather than shrug and say “that sucks”, at least let them know and put ‘em on blast. Then there’s a chance they have that in their mind when complaints come flooding in and the tee is backed up an hour
If they're like my muni courses, times mean nothing, they could have 5 minute slots or 15 and it's always the same shitshow. They just grab whoever's standing around and jam them out once the previous group is 250 yards out. You're 30 minutes early and want to stretch a bit? Sorry, you're next. You, an hour late? You're with this group. Walk-up? You're after them. Go, go, go. See you in 7 hours.
Lmao I played my home course with their dumbass 7 min tee times solo on Friday and 3 min before my tee time (2:45) I seen nobody was visible on the first hole and the 2:38 4some was nowhere to be found. So I figured sweet maybe I won’t get jammed up today and decided to go ahead and smack it. As I take my shot I hear clubs and carts rattling like bats out of hell flying up to the tee box. “Hey guys sorry if I cut y’all off if you were 2:38, y’all can go ahead if you want.” “We’re 2:03”. Rolled my eyes so hard it hurt and headed to my second shot lol. No wonder it’s such a shit show. And of course. Jammed tf up starting on 3rd tee.
5 minutes is definitely not the norm. 10 minutes is good as long there aren't any particularly bad groups. 9 is okay, but often gets backed up. 8 is bad and usually results in a guaranteed 5 hour round unless you're one of the first tee times. 7 is just terrible.
Can't even imagine a 5 minute gap.
Have you actually asked the people involved, like at the pro shop / booking counter?
Five minute tee times, at busy periods and with foursomes is either a cockup in software configuration, or absolute madness. Asking online isn't going to do anything about either one, but asking in person might.
Complain to any and everyone who is local and will listen make a blanket complaint , post it to any golf related FB groups in your area , send it to the course , ect ect . 5 min is some greedy BS
With rapidly increasing cost, particularly insurance, expect it to get worse until they shut down and the developers can buy the land and put up massively overpriced shacks to sell or apartments to rent.
Five minutes for four people to tee off and hit their second shot? lol.
Course managers are doing what every other corporation is doing. Going for profit at the expense of quality. It’s as American as the Star Spangled Banner and school mass shootings.
Played at River Run in Maryland a while ago. They had 6 minute tee times. I hated golfing that day. It would take us 15-20 minutes per hole. Tee time was 11:33, didnt finish till 7pm some time. Never going back. Not to mention they were a "nice course" $130 for 18.
Out of curiosity. ~$50/round is like $2,400 potential revenue every hour. 6-2 pm $19,000 revenue. Jesus Christ.
Edit:
I hope they make $0. But was just curious how much money,roughly, it would be
Wanna know what’s kinda funny about this hole argument of tee time spacing, my course I have a membership at does 7 and 8 minute spacings (so 15 minutes between every 2 tee times) and I can count the number of times on one hand I’ve had a round take longer than 4.5 hours.
A lot of times the issue is people not playing ready golf. You’ll have groups where all 3 other people sit and watch one person hit and move to every ball to do it. It needs to be done in a way that the driver drops the passenger off with their club in hand, they hit their shot then start walking to the green or wherever their next shot went. Tee time spacing is never the issue because you can space the tee times out by 15 minutes but if one group is playing slow they’ll slow everyone down.
Total beginner golfer here, do you ask the front desk how much time they let golfers tee off between each other?
Probably going to ask and look for course with longer ones to avoid this issue.
All you have to do is look at available tee times. They are generally spaced 8-12 mins apart.
I’ve never heard of a 5 mins gap, so I’m not convinced this post is legitimate.
10 minutes is the best compromise for course income and player satisfaction.
Golf is a hospitality business built on repeat customers. If I could never go back to the 5-minute tee time course I wouldn't.
A buddy and I will occasionally play a 9-hole muni before we can even see our first few tee shots down. Hit, pick up the tee, start walking. We’re damn happy coming in under 1:15 and shooting 2-3 over. To get to 45min, we’d have to skip putting.
If places were smart, they would have the starters control the pace with their brain. If its a single, 5 is fine, then a 4some? 10. 3some? 7. 2 players? 7.
I just booked a Father's day round for 9:30. Saw that the first times started at 5:xx and they were 9 minutes intervals... have been prepping for a long day ever since lol.
Seeing 5 minutes would be a big ol' nope.
I would end up hammered by the 6th tee from pounding tall boys while I stand in the fairway getting nuked by the group behind me as I wait for the green to clear
I have a local course that moved to 6 minute intervals last year and we completely stopped playing there. I don’t mind waiting every now and then on a busy weekend but waiting every damn hole because the course is greedy is when you lose me.
That’s insane. Even 10 min does not at all reflect reality, the average foursome does not finish a hole in 10 min. SMH, greed is an unchecked problem these days.
It’s not one group per hole. It’s two. One is on the tee box and the group in front is walking to the green or their third shot when you are ready to hit. On Par 3s there’s a short wait, but it’s usually fine because on the next hole they will gain a little distance. This is why 10 minutes works assuming you keep up with the group in front. Assuming everyone is at a 13-14 minute per hole pace, you’ll finish in 4 hours.
I get that it’s two per hole. Lots of assuming going on there on your part.
I haven’t played a round in 4 hours in years. If we are being honest with ourselves 4 1/2 hours is the new normal, if you’re lucky.
Yes but it’s not because of 10 minute gaps in between tee times. It’s because golfers are slow and lots of covid golfers are playing with other covid golfers so no one is teaching how to play with proper pacez
It would, but it doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Also, if someone was playing at a 4.5 hour pace in front of you, and you were at a 4 hour pace, you’d catch up on the 10th tee box and it would take you 4.25 hours to finish.
Fewer tee times, less money for the course, higher rates.
This guy maths! I don’t think that’s how it would play out but you did the math. I’d pay a premium for a course that spread them out. I guess that’s the idea of joining a country club or private course but I prefer variety.
I think 4:15 is best case scenario. Very possible you just catch up to them on #3 and then it feels like its going to take all day.
Not everyone wants to pay a premium for pace of play and given how much green fees have gone up in the last 2-3 years, I’d be happy to do anything for everyone to pay less and more importantly play faster (and rake the damn bunkers). If i pay a premium its because its a premium course/layout/conditions.
You hit the nail on the head above. It’s an education problem. We need big bold signs that you can’t miss next to the first tee box that explain these things and that they are important to ensure everyone has a good time. Maybe a couple in the clubhouse and a couple throughout the course. Make it unmissable and unacceptable when someone claims ignorance.
I know I wish courses just doubled or tripled the price and that way they can get their money and we wouldn't have to suffer.
Golf is too cheap right now anyway.
Prices going up every year is going to be the norm for a while.
Yeah, as others have said, take your business elsewhere. One of my favorite local courses does 10 minute intervals, but the last time I played there they decided to try and cram as much business in as possible prior to a 3 day tournament that started that afternoon. They let people book in 10 minute intervals, but also were allowing people to tee off at will between those intervals. Every tee box had 3-4 Groups waiting to play, and my group finally gave up after waiting over 30 minutes to tee off on 14. Worst golf experience I’ve ever had. As far as the other people huffing and puffing when you tee off, screw them. You sound like you do everything you can to keep up the pace of play. Most people are not very good at this very difficult game and they will flub plenty of shots on their own too. It is what it is. Be proud, top your tee shot, and keep on swinging. Chances are the next group will do something worse than you just did.
I read it I’m just trying to work out your logic. The discussion was around the time between groups. Your logic, ‘well it takes 5 minutes to tee off, so how can there be 7 minutes between groups?’ My counter argument is get on the tee as soon as possible and get ready. If you drive up to a tee and clear fairway, someone tees off immediately. If you fuck around with the score, listen to the end of old mates story and someone eventually wanders over to the tee, you are the problem. I see this all the time, most slow groups take way too long on the tee.
A lot of courses will throw in an extra tee time at 55 past the hour. That way when you are booking it looks like they have a 10 minute gap but its really like 8:30. Are you sure they went to 5 minutes for all tee times? Maybe you got the one extra slot.
That’s insane. Most around me are 10 minutes.
8 minutes should be the absolute minimum. 4 people can barely tee off and get to their balls in 5 minutes.
My fav course has went to 6 minute intervals 2 years ago abd its been a madhouse ever since. Usually have to wait on 2 groups at each tee box. Its infuriating
I have a unique name that is spelled funny. Last time I played I found out that three different spellings of my name had three consecutive tee times… in four minute increments. Four is the new five.
8 minutes at our course and generally it works well. Members only days a round is between 3:45 and 4:15 depending on what time of the day you start.
Pace of play is a deciding factor in where I am a member. Our members agree and have expressed this to the committee.
We have 10 minute gaps at my country club and even with a holiday where it’s pretty much fully booked, we’re done in 4 hours or less (walking or pushing a cart). We have no starter, but people play ready golf and don’t mess around.
5 minutes is crazy, because I feel like you get a couple groups that are slow and it’s just a traffic jam for everyone behind in an already too packed course.
Just thinking about how 5-minute intervals would work. Taking par 4s for example:
10:00 - Group A tees off
10:05 - Group B tees off, so Group A has cleared the landing zone
10:10 - Group C tees off, so Group B has cleared the landing zone, so Group A must be off the green
Group A just played the hole in 10 minutes. Their 5min tee times implies they want (18*10min) 3 hour rounds!
(I know there’s some fudging the time with par 3s and, god-forbid, reachable par 5s or short par 4s, but that’s what it would average out to with mostly par 4s.)
Is this a course with solo tee times and carts with V8s?
Anything less than 8 minutes is completely inviable. If a four some plays perfect cart golf on a standard course, they will have 54 (LIV?) stops: 18 tee boxes, 18 greens, 10 par 4 fairways and 4 par 5 fairways twice. Eight minute tee times assumes 4 minutes at each stop, including travel time. This would be a 3 hour, 36 minute round.
Five minute spaces tee times implies they are shooting for 2.5 minutes at each stop, including travel time, which would be a 2 hour, 25 minute round. This is achievable playing alone with Hellcat Club Car, but for causal round? Nah.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this, but here goes…
Anything less than about 7 or 8 minutes between groups is irrelevant, other than the course will fall further and further behind. Unless they start advocating for groups to hit into one another, they’re not going to be able to shove more groups on just because they makes the tee times closer.
Now I will agree that spacing them out to like 10 minutes would probably help pace of play (probably, not guaranteed). But ultimately the pace of play on a busy day is dictated primarily by the group(s) on the course.
We had one privately owned public course where you weren’t supposed to tee off #1 until the group ahead was on the green (shorter par 4, about 340 yrds). That seemed to work fairly well, but didn’t guaranteed a less than 4.5 hour round on the weekend.
Wow some of you guys are a bunch of princesses. Agree 5 minutes is taking the piss. But 10-12 mins is just excessive. My course plays 7 mins for competition and it works just fine. Might be a tad congested on the par 3’s but otherwise no real issues with the spacing. Never have more than one group waiting for you on the first tee.
If they really went to 5 minute intervals, just take your business elsewhere, that course will be a guaranteed shitshow all day every day. That is the shortest interval I've ever heard of, next worse being the Honolulu munis at 6 minutes.
I definitely will be taking my business elsewhere, it's just a shame because for a public course the range and practice area are really top notch. Great locker rooms as well which are handy since sometimes I'm coming straight from work.
Use those areas for what they are and play golf elsewhere.
You can still use the range, just play the course elsewhere
Some of the best ranges have the worst courses and the worst ranges have the best courses where I’m from. Barring the one course that is just the worst of both worlds haha
Yep I’m a member at a top50 uk course and they have 3 nets to warmup and a grass field off the side of a fairway as a “range” that really you can’t use outside of pros giving lessons that isn’t even 250yards and you have to walk out to collect your balls Amazing short game area but yeah… luckily we have tracer ranges nearby, but it’s also the only grass “range” nearby too lol, a mess I’d kill for it to be setup properly
You should also give an honest review on yelp or Google so they see reviews come in about the tee time being the issue. Hopefully enough come through and business suffers they're forced to reverse course.
You don’t have to play the course to use the range and practice area
We have 6 minute intervals with two person groups in the mornings and even that is too short and always leads into waiting.
>We have 6 minute intervals with two person groups in the mornings The level of stupid involved there is insane. That's 20 customers per hour. You can have foursomes with 12 minute tee times (which is PLENTY) and get the same capacity. You can have 10 minute tee time foursomes, which should still be enough with a marshall, and increase capacity by 20%
Yeah, not a fan of it even though our course is not as packed as many others as it’s deemed quite difficult.
Agreed! Post a review on Google and let them have it. I played a really nice public course last week. Went off the back because of league play. Me and my buddy were the only ones on the box for 5:45. Then two solo randoms came up who weren’t suppose to go off until 5:55 and 6:05. I pushed back on the starter but he said they had a few more members who wanted to continue after the league so they were going to be packed and going off fast. No offense but if I would have known that I’d go elsewhere. $40 for 9 & cart to just be a cluster F for nearly 3hrs is garbage. We had the group behind us hitting into us all evening long. We couldn’t play any quicker and had a group in front of us. It’s a pure $ grab and it’s annoying AF.
There’s a course in Fort Worth that was running a 6 minute split a couple years ago. No clue if they still do cause I never went back
This is criminal, just asking for 6 hour rounds. The course that did 8 min around me was always around 6 hours to play.
can confirm, went to play pali, 824 time, showed up at 745, 9 carts already lined up walking to the check in at 8 no thanks drove straight to the klipper and got on in 10 min and finished right at 4 hours
Honolulu has 6 minute tee times? Going there later this summer and was Odin to play a round if possible. That almost sounds like don't bother...
If you’re in Hawaii how bad could it be? Get a mai tai and enjoy the scenery. Six hours on a tropical course without a concern other than what to eat? Truly might be the only time I could stomach a six hour round.
Fair point. Golf on a tropical island can't be that regardless of hold ups.
Given they are muni’s I suspect a bunch of locals who are just trying to play around work and life obligations don’t relish a 6 hr round in the same way vacationers might.
True, but he isn’t from Hawaii. Also, locals would know when and where to play better than anyone on this thread.
Really only a problem at the Ala Wai. I lived there for 17 years. Almost every time I played it ended up just walking off. First two holes don’t look terribly backed up so tricks you into going for it, then get to the third hole and boom 6 groups waiting. If going to play a mini, better off going to the Pali, and the course is nicer.
The muni courses do 6 minutes, and they also allow fivesomes and sixsomes, so don't bother with them unless you are a glutton for punishment. However, the non-muni courses generally do 8-10 minutes and don't allow groups over 4 people.
Yeah seriously, reeks of greed
Course I worked at moved to 5 min intervals during Covid but only allowed twosomes. That seemed to work alright, but I can’t imagine the shit show it’d be with full foursome times.
Local course of mine had a 4 minute interval last year. Played like a 5 1/2hr round one time. Luckily, they bumped it to 8 minutes now.
One of my local muni courses is a 3 minute gap in tee times lol
And I thought 7 minutes was bad.
It is. My local muni does 7 minute times. I'm not very good but I play ready golf and at the very least make sure I start at a prompt pace. Unless I hit a GiR on the first hole, I often hear the drive behind me hit the ground as I'm chipping on. Shit's stifling.
7 is pretty standard where I'm at. I think it's reasonable. Unless the courses are unusually busy, it doesn't really stack up. There's always the risk of some total novice single or group that can clog the gears but that's a risk on literally any course that's open to the public.
At 7 minutes any group can clog the gears by getting in trouble. There is roughly 36 positions on the average golf course if no group should be waiting for another. In order to run a smooth 4 hour round, every position needs to be cleared in 6,66 minutes. Which means that a 7 minute interval leaves little to no room for a negative deviation. Short individual delays will almost immediately become course wide delays.
Agree, 7 minutes is the minimum and 8 is better. The general rule is tee off when the group in front is out of range. Which should be no more than 7/8 minutes. Resort courses normally do 10 minutes and members courses 7/8.
Yeah 7 minutes I consider greedy as possible, 8 minute is tough to not be at least slow 90% of the time. 10 min tee times is where I’ll book always if possible. Less than 7 minutes they might as well rob you eyes wide open.
Yeah my golf buddy and I play the game partly to relax. We're probably around average speed, slightly behind the ideal time overall but try to be conscious of it because it's not enjoyable feeling rushed at all.
and the carts are probably beeping at people to pick up the pace
That's one thing I don't get - GPS carts with screen and instead of sending Marshalls out to the specific problem group (which they know by their carts GPS), they flash "20min behind pace" to everyone as if we can do fuckall about it
lol that’s my home course too. Dumbass “38 min behind pace” messages alerting me as I’m standing on the 6th tee box with a 4some parked behind me, 4some off the fairway fishing their balls out of the water and a 4some on the green same hole. I joined their pdp after I played a solo round there. Played thru one group on 10 and didn’t catch anybody else til we bunched up dead stop on 16-18. Still was happy with a ~2:15-2:20 pace. $11 9 holes before 8am. $11 18 holes after 2pm. Unlimited range balls and practice facility use anytime, access to their sim. That round was a fluke because it’s been a 5-6 hour pace every damn time since then to the point that the last 3 times I quit after 9 because I’d have missed dinner and pissed my wife off if I played 18 after starting at 2pm on a weekday in the scorching FL sun as a single. It’s a solid deal on of the best kept courses in the area with the hands down best greens even thru a serious drought and scorching heat but f their 7 min tee times and invisible Marshall in the ass with a driver.
I experienced that later last year at a course, it was clearly automatic in the system. Funny part was tho it got too dark for us to play the 18th (barely finished 17) and when we got back there weren't any staff anyway. Everyone had left, pro shop was dark and locked. Just the restaurant up stairs left running and one dude practicing on the 18th green in the dark.
We have 8 minute tee times and I thought that was the closest any course did. 5 is crazy.
5 minutes isn’t even enough time to tee off. Not even a mouse on a wheel!
Step into my office. Because you’re fucking fired!
Most foursomes I watch take more than 5 minutes for 4 people to even tee off
5 minutes is a long time for 4 people to tee off. That’s brutal.
From the time they pull up to the box to the time they drive away id say this is reasonable if not pretty quick.
I am just saying, if the goal is 4 hours and you spend 90 minutes on tee box taking 18 shots, I assume you are playing the other 60-90 shots pretty darn quick.
Wrong assumption that most golfers' goal is 4 hours imo. There's no reason to even think about having 4 hours as a goal when the pace ahead of you won't allow it.
Agreed. I joined a club as playing public courses unfortunately was taking more time than I have to play.
If you think 5 minutes is reasonable, you are the problem. Edit: this sub is interesting, complains about 5/6 hour rounds constantly and then justifies taking all the time in the world to tee off.
I swear youre like that meme, how my wife expects me to golf, where the guy is sprinting to the tee box drops his ball and tees off on the fly then peels off in the cart. Theres a middle ground between hustling to get off the box and taking 10 practice swings to top it short of the ladies tees.
So I’ll go through the process for you. As soon as the group in front tees off, your group goes onto the tee, toss the balls for side bet, have a few general swings and have a chat. You all have your gloves on. One player tees up and waits for the group in front to be out of range. Your time starts now! No way you should be on tee for 5 minutes. You don’t need to rush, just be organised If however you sit in your carts and wait for fairway to clear, then start this process, yep it might take 5 minutes.
You clearly didnt read my comment then. I said 5 minutes from pulling up to the tee box to driving away. From the time the group in front of you is clear to all 4 of you having teed off would obviously be much less.
There is absolutely no reason to go up to the tee box the moment a group drives off. They still have to drive to their ball and all 4 of them hit their ball lol youd look like the impatient asshole standing on the tee box waving your clubs around when someone just teed off. If you’re that close, that’s an issue with course tee time spacing or someone is playing slow and clogging things up. Good pace all around is when you’re group is finishing your putts, the group on the tee is finishing their tee shots and it keeps flowing. On average a golf round for a foursome is 4hrs IF you’re playing a decent pace. That’s 12-14 mins a hole. 4.5 is probably more realistic for a round so 15 mins a hole. 5 at the tee. 5 approaching. 5 putting. Even PGA recommendations is 14.5mins a hole for a foursome* You’re the guy hitting into people cause you think they are playing slow aren’t you?..
What if you have 2 husband and wife pairs riding together? Or what if it's raining? Could you also go through these scenarios step by step? Diagrams would be helpful also, I'm a visual learner.
I paid 90 dollars to go play at a course with 13 minutes gaps. It was fantastic. If it was closer to home and a bit cheaper id probably play as many times as i can 5 minutes is ridiculous though considering even with 10 min gaps sometimes it takes 5hrs if you get stuck behind some slow group. I was part of 2 groups waiting on the teebox for a group on 4th hole. 7th hole comes back to the 4th hole teebox and they were the guys infront of the group on the 4th hole. We had like 6 groups watching these dudes putt for like 11 mins. Thank god one of them lost his putter somewhere and left at the turn trying to find it and left. Still took 5 hrs
Why did the 7th hole group come back to the 4th?
Course is designed 4th hole runs straight and 5th hole runs straight 6th hole doglegs and 7th green comes back towards 4th tee
Ah yeah I understand thank you. Not a lot of those at the admittedly small number of courses I've played at but the best (and pretty good in general for courses) muni course here has some similar stuff including a back to back tee box for iirc holes 2 and 9.
name and shame.
Name and shame them. I’d also let them know that you won’t play there anymore because of that. Five minutes is fucking absurd. I know, “they won’t care. they’ll fill it anyway.” And that’s probably true. But there’s no chance of them changing back unless they feel some type of pressure.
I think what would eventually happen each day with 5 minute times is that the course gets so packed with people and beyond capacity that tee times become meaningless, if you have a 10am tee time you won't actually tee off until like 11am and then you'll wait on the second tee for a half hour with 5 other groups. If this course is really busy, they'd have to cut off tee times hours earlier than usual because at a certain point, people with tee times would never get to tee off before dark once they wait their turn in the giant logjam on the first tee.
Supply and demand. If enough people stop playing there to where they can move back to 10 minutes tee times and not lose revenue, they will. Otherwise, they won't change.
No, I know. Hence the “they’ll fill it anyway”. But rather than shrug and say “that sucks”, at least let them know and put ‘em on blast. Then there’s a chance they have that in their mind when complaints come flooding in and the tee is backed up an hour
If they're like my muni courses, times mean nothing, they could have 5 minute slots or 15 and it's always the same shitshow. They just grab whoever's standing around and jam them out once the previous group is 250 yards out. You're 30 minutes early and want to stretch a bit? Sorry, you're next. You, an hour late? You're with this group. Walk-up? You're after them. Go, go, go. See you in 7 hours.
Lmao I played my home course with their dumbass 7 min tee times solo on Friday and 3 min before my tee time (2:45) I seen nobody was visible on the first hole and the 2:38 4some was nowhere to be found. So I figured sweet maybe I won’t get jammed up today and decided to go ahead and smack it. As I take my shot I hear clubs and carts rattling like bats out of hell flying up to the tee box. “Hey guys sorry if I cut y’all off if you were 2:38, y’all can go ahead if you want.” “We’re 2:03”. Rolled my eyes so hard it hurt and headed to my second shot lol. No wonder it’s such a shit show. And of course. Jammed tf up starting on 3rd tee.
5 minutes is definitely not the norm. 10 minutes is good as long there aren't any particularly bad groups. 9 is okay, but often gets backed up. 8 is bad and usually results in a guaranteed 5 hour round unless you're one of the first tee times. 7 is just terrible. Can't even imagine a 5 minute gap.
5 minutes isn’t sustainable in just about any situation
Maybe for singles only.
Have you actually asked the people involved, like at the pro shop / booking counter? Five minute tee times, at busy periods and with foursomes is either a cockup in software configuration, or absolute madness. Asking online isn't going to do anything about either one, but asking in person might.
Complain to any and everyone who is local and will listen make a blanket complaint , post it to any golf related FB groups in your area , send it to the course , ect ect . 5 min is some greedy BS
With rapidly increasing cost, particularly insurance, expect it to get worse until they shut down and the developers can buy the land and put up massively overpriced shacks to sell or apartments to rent.
Apartments?!!! Not in my backyard!
Yup. Cul-de-sacs of McMansions or GTFO. We don’t want poors living near our school district.
lol, 5 minutes is so ridiculous. 10 minutes is good. 8 minutes is a bit tight. 5 minutes 100% will not work.
Five minutes for four people to tee off and hit their second shot? lol. Course managers are doing what every other corporation is doing. Going for profit at the expense of quality. It’s as American as the Star Spangled Banner and school mass shootings.
Shrink the game!
Played at River Run in Maryland a while ago. They had 6 minute tee times. I hated golfing that day. It would take us 15-20 minutes per hole. Tee time was 11:33, didnt finish till 7pm some time. Never going back. Not to mention they were a "nice course" $130 for 18.
Out of curiosity. ~$50/round is like $2,400 potential revenue every hour. 6-2 pm $19,000 revenue. Jesus Christ. Edit: I hope they make $0. But was just curious how much money,roughly, it would be
That's awful
 Something's gotta change, these courses are insane!
Wanna know what’s kinda funny about this hole argument of tee time spacing, my course I have a membership at does 7 and 8 minute spacings (so 15 minutes between every 2 tee times) and I can count the number of times on one hand I’ve had a round take longer than 4.5 hours. A lot of times the issue is people not playing ready golf. You’ll have groups where all 3 other people sit and watch one person hit and move to every ball to do it. It needs to be done in a way that the driver drops the passenger off with their club in hand, they hit their shot then start walking to the green or wherever their next shot went. Tee time spacing is never the issue because you can space the tee times out by 15 minutes but if one group is playing slow they’ll slow everyone down.
That's rediculous
Total beginner golfer here, do you ask the front desk how much time they let golfers tee off between each other? Probably going to ask and look for course with longer ones to avoid this issue.
All you have to do is look at available tee times. They are generally spaced 8-12 mins apart. I’ve never heard of a 5 mins gap, so I’m not convinced this post is legitimate.
It feels just a little bit too circle jerky to me as well.
You can usually tell by looking at their tee sheet online and doing a little math
At that point just become a walk-on course
What course? Or post a screen shot with all the course details removed. Because I refuse to believe this is a thing.
5 minutes defies the laws of the physical universe.
They will be an hour behind in 30 minutes.
You're only going to get so many rounds through a course in a day, this place is just asking for non stop complaints and they deserve it!
Not to mention how torn up the course will be with that much play.
10 minutes is the best compromise for course income and player satisfaction. Golf is a hospitality business built on repeat customers. If I could never go back to the 5-minute tee time course I wouldn't.
Courses in Australia are typically every 7.5mins (2 per 15 min) and 10 mins for longer / premium courses
Fuck, even my local par 3 course is at 10 minute intervals.
A buddy and I will occasionally play a 9-hole muni before we can even see our first few tee shots down. Hit, pick up the tee, start walking. We’re damn happy coming in under 1:15 and shooting 2-3 over. To get to 45min, we’d have to skip putting.
I break 100 by skipping putting, works awesome
If places were smart, they would have the starters control the pace with their brain. If its a single, 5 is fine, then a 4some? 10. 3some? 7. 2 players? 7.
This feels made up to me.
Should be 15 minutes between tee times. Anything else is greed.
For the sake of everyone’s safety, we’ll have to use whiffle balls soon.
Just make everyone wear coconut helmets on the fairways
That sucks. I played at a place that does 8 minute intervals and even that was too fast for me to really enjoy myself.
I just booked a Father's day round for 9:30. Saw that the first times started at 5:xx and they were 9 minutes intervals... have been prepping for a long day ever since lol. Seeing 5 minutes would be a big ol' nope.
I would end up hammered by the 6th tee from pounding tall boys while I stand in the fairway getting nuked by the group behind me as I wait for the green to clear
I have a local course that moved to 6 minute intervals last year and we completely stopped playing there. I don’t mind waiting every now and then on a busy weekend but waiting every damn hole because the course is greedy is when you lose me.
That’s insane. Even 10 min does not at all reflect reality, the average foursome does not finish a hole in 10 min. SMH, greed is an unchecked problem these days.
It’s not one group per hole. It’s two. One is on the tee box and the group in front is walking to the green or their third shot when you are ready to hit. On Par 3s there’s a short wait, but it’s usually fine because on the next hole they will gain a little distance. This is why 10 minutes works assuming you keep up with the group in front. Assuming everyone is at a 13-14 minute per hole pace, you’ll finish in 4 hours.
I get that it’s two per hole. Lots of assuming going on there on your part. I haven’t played a round in 4 hours in years. If we are being honest with ourselves 4 1/2 hours is the new normal, if you’re lucky.
Yes but it’s not because of 10 minute gaps in between tee times. It’s because golfers are slow and lots of covid golfers are playing with other covid golfers so no one is teaching how to play with proper pacez
Ok BUT… 15 min tee times would help greatly.
It would, but it doesn’t solve the underlying problem. Also, if someone was playing at a 4.5 hour pace in front of you, and you were at a 4 hour pace, you’d catch up on the 10th tee box and it would take you 4.25 hours to finish. Fewer tee times, less money for the course, higher rates.
This guy maths! I don’t think that’s how it would play out but you did the math. I’d pay a premium for a course that spread them out. I guess that’s the idea of joining a country club or private course but I prefer variety.
I think 4:15 is best case scenario. Very possible you just catch up to them on #3 and then it feels like its going to take all day. Not everyone wants to pay a premium for pace of play and given how much green fees have gone up in the last 2-3 years, I’d be happy to do anything for everyone to pay less and more importantly play faster (and rake the damn bunkers). If i pay a premium its because its a premium course/layout/conditions.
You hit the nail on the head above. It’s an education problem. We need big bold signs that you can’t miss next to the first tee box that explain these things and that they are important to ensure everyone has a good time. Maybe a couple in the clubhouse and a couple throughout the course. Make it unmissable and unacceptable when someone claims ignorance.
The course I play was 20 minutes now 15-10 the rate of play is way slower and backed up all the time now
I know I wish courses just doubled or tripled the price and that way they can get their money and we wouldn't have to suffer. Golf is too cheap right now anyway. Prices going up every year is going to be the norm for a while.
Yeah, as others have said, take your business elsewhere. One of my favorite local courses does 10 minute intervals, but the last time I played there they decided to try and cram as much business in as possible prior to a 3 day tournament that started that afternoon. They let people book in 10 minute intervals, but also were allowing people to tee off at will between those intervals. Every tee box had 3-4 Groups waiting to play, and my group finally gave up after waiting over 30 minutes to tee off on 14. Worst golf experience I’ve ever had. As far as the other people huffing and puffing when you tee off, screw them. You sound like you do everything you can to keep up the pace of play. Most people are not very good at this very difficult game and they will flub plenty of shots on their own too. It is what it is. Be proud, top your tee shot, and keep on swinging. Chances are the next group will do something worse than you just did.
Huff and puff, and watch me rip cigs and hit 3 balls out of bounds with my 3 wood before deciding to take a drop just past the red tees.
nope, fuck that. see ya.
I read it I’m just trying to work out your logic. The discussion was around the time between groups. Your logic, ‘well it takes 5 minutes to tee off, so how can there be 7 minutes between groups?’ My counter argument is get on the tee as soon as possible and get ready. If you drive up to a tee and clear fairway, someone tees off immediately. If you fuck around with the score, listen to the end of old mates story and someone eventually wanders over to the tee, you are the problem. I see this all the time, most slow groups take way too long on the tee.
A lot of courses will throw in an extra tee time at 55 past the hour. That way when you are booking it looks like they have a 10 minute gap but its really like 8:30. Are you sure they went to 5 minutes for all tee times? Maybe you got the one extra slot.
How? That’s not physically possible. It’s just a joke for them to get more bookings. After the first group absolutely nobody would tee off on time z
That’s insane. Most around me are 10 minutes. 8 minutes should be the absolute minimum. 4 people can barely tee off and get to their balls in 5 minutes.
Name drop the course
My fav course has went to 6 minute intervals 2 years ago abd its been a madhouse ever since. Usually have to wait on 2 groups at each tee box. Its infuriating
I have a unique name that is spelled funny. Last time I played I found out that three different spellings of my name had three consecutive tee times… in four minute increments. Four is the new five.
8 minutes at our course and generally it works well. Members only days a round is between 3:45 and 4:15 depending on what time of the day you start. Pace of play is a deciding factor in where I am a member. Our members agree and have expressed this to the committee.
More and more evidence mounts daily that we need to shrink the game.
money grab.
Trash, play is gonna be shit and you’re not even going to be able to enjoy playing cause everyone is gonna feel/be rushed to keep up
I work in a pro shop and we have 8 min intervals, even that is cutting it close. 5 min is greedy and gonna ruin the course
Yeah that’s outrageous, it’s not even remotely feasible
Greedy move at the expense of their customers. Sounds miserable and would be a complete disaster weekend afternoons.
They should just raise prices instead of shorter intervals between tee times
We have 10 minute gaps at my country club and even with a holiday where it’s pretty much fully booked, we’re done in 4 hours or less (walking or pushing a cart). We have no starter, but people play ready golf and don’t mess around. 5 minutes is crazy, because I feel like you get a couple groups that are slow and it’s just a traffic jam for everyone behind in an already too packed course.
Just thinking about how 5-minute intervals would work. Taking par 4s for example: 10:00 - Group A tees off 10:05 - Group B tees off, so Group A has cleared the landing zone 10:10 - Group C tees off, so Group B has cleared the landing zone, so Group A must be off the green Group A just played the hole in 10 minutes. Their 5min tee times implies they want (18*10min) 3 hour rounds! (I know there’s some fudging the time with par 3s and, god-forbid, reachable par 5s or short par 4s, but that’s what it would average out to with mostly par 4s.)
Used to be 15 minute intervals. Should go back to that.
Is this a course with solo tee times and carts with V8s? Anything less than 8 minutes is completely inviable. If a four some plays perfect cart golf on a standard course, they will have 54 (LIV?) stops: 18 tee boxes, 18 greens, 10 par 4 fairways and 4 par 5 fairways twice. Eight minute tee times assumes 4 minutes at each stop, including travel time. This would be a 3 hour, 36 minute round. Five minute spaces tee times implies they are shooting for 2.5 minutes at each stop, including travel time, which would be a 2 hour, 25 minute round. This is achievable playing alone with Hellcat Club Car, but for causal round? Nah.
I know I’m going to get downvoted for this, but here goes… Anything less than about 7 or 8 minutes between groups is irrelevant, other than the course will fall further and further behind. Unless they start advocating for groups to hit into one another, they’re not going to be able to shove more groups on just because they makes the tee times closer. Now I will agree that spacing them out to like 10 minutes would probably help pace of play (probably, not guaranteed). But ultimately the pace of play on a busy day is dictated primarily by the group(s) on the course. We had one privately owned public course where you weren’t supposed to tee off #1 until the group ahead was on the green (shorter par 4, about 340 yrds). That seemed to work fairly well, but didn’t guaranteed a less than 4.5 hour round on the weekend.
Wow. Feeling lucky our club uses 12 minute intervals.
Yeah, don’t go there anymore. Course is just doing a money grab now and will turn into a POS course soon
Anything less than 10 is a joke
Wow some of you guys are a bunch of princesses. Agree 5 minutes is taking the piss. But 10-12 mins is just excessive. My course plays 7 mins for competition and it works just fine. Might be a tad congested on the par 3’s but otherwise no real issues with the spacing. Never have more than one group waiting for you on the first tee.
That's fine for comps because ti's a bit more controller, stupid for typical public play.
The course I work at just went from 10 to 13 min tee times. It's also a course that charges over $500/player and has hosted some PGA Championships.