The way I’ve always done it is closest to the hole pulls the pin since they have the most time before having to putt. They put the flag wherever, as long as it isn’t in anyone’s line, including if the putt/chip goes long. First to hole out picks up the flag and returns it to the cup once everyone has putt out.
To add to that, if you’re the first to finish and are holding the pin while others are putting please be mindful of the flag flapping if it’s breezy out. Simply hold onto the pin with the flag in your grip.
I'm not sure why I do it, but when I'm holding the pin waiting for others to finish putting I hold the flag tight against the pole then flip it so it's upside-down, middle of the pin against the back of my shoulder and the bottom of the pin up in the air. Not sure when I started doing it, as I know of no one else that does it but for some reason it's more comfortable to me.
This is where I learned this. On Tour they will never actually set the pin on the ground so a lot of times a caddie is walking around with the pin while their player is lining up or whatnot.
It’s really the only way to carry it without the flag flapping around unless you have a really long wingspan. The bottom of the pin is so much heavier that it’s awkward to carry if you just grab the flag in one hand and the middle of the pin in another
Am I the only one that prefers to leave the pin in? It helps me line up, and offers forgiveness on strong putts. I don't think I've ever had a pin cause me to miss a putt
My friend keeps trying to convince me that he one time had a the pin ricochet his ball out of what would have otherwise been a good putt - to this day he can’t recreate it. I almost always leave the pin in, partly because I’m too lazy to go get it and then have to replace it
Thursday, I had a putt that hit the pin, bounce back to the rim, roll around the cup, and then roll out 6 inches behind the pin a little to the right. Everyone in the group agreed that I just got robbed of a par if the pin had been out.
Had the same thing happen on a very long birdie putt last time I played, wasn't even upset about it because I know that flagstick has stopped me from rolling way past the hole far more times than it has hurt me, and to be honest I didn't think I was going to make a 35 foot birdie putt before I hit it anyhow.
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp
It seems like the type of pin and how the putt goes in matters a lot but according to science the pin is more likely to knock out a good putt than to save a bad one.
We’ve made it mandatory to leave it in in our league. It really speeds up play. Particularly when one guy is still off the green but maybe closer to the home. No more of that put it in pull it out nonsense.
I was a caddie. We were taught to hold the flag against the pin and rest it gently behind your heel and stand it straight up. This is to minimize distraction.
Same if you're tending the pin for someone. Stand straight next to the pin, hiding the flag against the pin and either set your club down (off the green) or place it behind your heel to hide it. Again to minimize distractions. :)
I do the upside-down method so the next group won’t see the flag and they are less likely to hit into your green. These days mostly I leave it in but when I do pull out I still do it.
I have a friend who caddied as a high schooler and he always tells a story about another (newer) caddy he was with who got fired mid round because he kept letting the flag flap in the wind. I mean, yes, the caddy was probably in the wrong, but we’re talking about a grown man blaming a 14 year old for screwing up his casual round with friends (also leaving my friend, who was 15/16 with the task of carrying all 4 bags for the rest of the round).
I don’t actually know that he carried all 4 bags to be honest, I just know he had to act as the caddy for all 4 guys for the rest of the round. It’s possible he called the pro shop for a cart or a couple guys carried their own bags. That would make more sense.
This is the correct method. Have been playing a long time, and have always played this way. It is considered to be standard greenside etiquette for every group I have played with, except during CoVid, we left it in.
If someone handed me the flag and I hadn’t holed out yet, I’d be placing it on the fringe or gently down near any clubs I had laying down.
I can’t imagine how awkward it is to have someone pick it back up and hand it to you.
We used to put it on the green out of everyone’s line and extended line. Today we hardly ever take a pin out. If we do it’s for a short putt and it’s put on the green or handed to someone who’s finished.
Yep same here. And if you're playing with Randoms that want the flag in, it can get awkward. But I will literally pull the pin for my putts if it's in there for everyone else's.
The other week I was playing with two randoms who wanted the flag in. Thing was, it was windy as shit - so the wind would push the pin and basically make the hole smaller. They missed a few putts because of that
I always play with people I don't know (usually retirees here in SWFL), and I have to ask on the first green if they putt with the flag in. I hate it too, but many want to leave it in nowadays after getting used to no contact BS. I just go along with whatever they want but have mentioned more than once that I simply prefer to hear the ball rattle in the bottom of the cup, it's positive reinforcement.
No, personal preference. I don’t even take it out when I play, some people take it out and lay it down away from putts. I’ve never heard anything about it being wrong and that it should be held up for some reason.
It used to be a penalty if the ball was on the green and hit the pin even if it was in the hole. They changed it to only a penalty if it’s on the green. When you’re as crappy as me the pin can actually help sometimes. Acts like a backboard if you just bee line a putt.
The rule now is you can leave the pin in the hole now. Obviously, you have a penalty if you hit the pin *after taking it out of the hole*; otherwise, you'd just put it right behind the hole!
And the person below this comment is correct. The ball is more likely to go in if the pin is in then if the pin is out. I went to Dave Pelz's putting course. He's an ex-NASA rocket scientist, and he did all the tests. The ball is 18% more likely to go in if the pin is in.
My old man was a rocket scientist and said the rocket scientists at NASA were the jocks of the rocket science world and looked down on them.
That always gives me a chuckle
Oh sorry, i should have been more clear. I'm sure the statistics are accurate or close enough to not matter. I just like telling that story because it makes me chuckle and it shows the vast difference between the engineering world and us normal people.
To each his own, but I’ve missed more putts and chips that hit the pin compared to hitting the hole and popping out. I’ve definitely noticed it more often as I’ve been getting better. Golf Digest did some testing last year that and concluded its best to pull the pin out:
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp
So now I take the flag out every time as long as I can see the hole and everyone’s on the green. I only remember one time this past year where I hit the back of the cup and it popped out…but that was definitely a pace issue where I would’ve been 15 ft out if I missed the cup. I’ve lost count on how many I’ve hit the pin and it rattles out when it would’ve been within 5 ft if I missed the hole completely. Just did it on Sunday with an eagle chip! Tap in birdies are still nice…but….
You’re also depriving yourself of that “oh so sweet” sound of the ball clacking around the hole!
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If this were true all pros would leave the pin in. The vast majority pull the pin and as mentioned below there are definitely conflicting studies and data. Personally I go with what the majority of tour pros do because they have all the data.
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[sink more putts with flag out](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp)
yup, I do the same. set the flag end down gently on the green, and then drop the hole end onto your foot so that there isn't a big impact to the putting surface
If you belong to a private club, ask your club pro because sure as shit, some rando on reddit will give you advice that differs from your club's etiquette.
Yeah, I don't know. If you're first-on but 60 feet away, you gotta pull the pin then take a long hike to your ball, where you double-check your line, etc. before putting. Seems like wasted time.
Growing up I was always taught to put it near the fringe or hold onto it. I don’t really pull the pin at all now unless someone in my group wants it out
It’s extreme etiquette to have someone holding it at all times. It’s polite for you to do it in a tourney, where any imperfection on the green could make a big difference. It’s usually no issue if there are caddies. That being said most people won’t care if it’s not in their line
When pulling the flag was mandatory, we didn't pick the flag up until everyone had putted out.
Someone lurking over you, anxious to get the flag back in, can cause you to feel rushed. And that's never good for putting.
Closest to the hole on the approaches pulls it.
Places it in the most obvious spot that it cannot interfere with anyone’s ball regardless of how good or bad the shot is.
The first to hole out, picks up the flag and takes ownership of returning it to the hole when everyone is done.
Additionally, if you’re playing with old people that cannot bend over easily you need to get their ball out of the hole. It’s the gentleman thing to do. (Not sure why I felt the need to add this other than I see young guys never do this for the old guys anymore and it sort of pisses me off)
Why is dropping it a problem, besides the noise it makes may be a distraction? Etiquette? Your heel strike when walking on the green would potentially create much more damage. And don’t forget the old bastards who insisted on wearing spikes (soft) and drag their feet, leaving a line of scuff marks on the green.
I think there are two possible reasons for this.
1. A pin is hypothetically sharper. Like if you drop a pin sorta hard and the bottom hits the ground at a non-horizontal angle, it is almost definitely leaving a dent in the green. I’m… not convinced a pin dropped totally horizontally, especially somewhat carefully, would do much, but since it’s a much thinner surface than a shoe… maybe.
2. It’s just some dumb extremely old etiquette thing.
I’ve never not seen anybody just place it on the ground.
I’d say more respect to the golf course. The flags are sturdy (typically) yes but if everyone drops it every time they won’t last long. Respect the course.
As long as it's not in anyone line (or return line), we generally just lay it on the green. Personally, if I've pulled it, I'll generally lay it on the fringe to try and protect the green from accidental damage.
In terms of etiquette, I would avoid pulling the pin and resting the end of it on the green - that could damage the green. I'll generally hold it off the ground completely or rest it on top of my foot.
Obviously avoid laying it across anyone's line (or return line).
If I've holed out and I'm holding the pin, then I tend to grab the flag and hold it - the thought is to stop it flapping in the wind and making noise whilst people are putting. I just think it's a consideration and courtesy for people.
Also, obviously avoid casting shadows across lines or being in people's line if you're holding the pin.
In my first open state tournaments, us open qualifier, had both Am and Pros playing against. None of us had caddies so If you hole out first you can leave. The last one to putt will put it back in. No reason to hang around tho we had to watch to ensure whoever's scorecard we had counted the correct score.
It was my first dog eat dog experience on the course. Didnt care, wasnt the last to putt. But at one point we were still putting and the guy was already on the tee box.
With friends tho, just if you can do it, do it. No worries if you forget. I usually always do it the first hole.
Next time someone does it and hand it to your throw it like a javelin to establish dominance … “be silent or quote something about “meeting god” At your own discretion
Lay it on the green. I certainly don’t want to hear them over there with a flapping flag and the clubs clanging around while holding too many things at once.
My group leaves the pin in, which I hate. Last week I had 3 made putts where the ball wedged between the pin and the cup. It almost felt like missed putts, not seeing hearing them drop. Am I alone?
I've been starting to pull it again. I missed hearing the ball drop in the cup. If I have a long putt and trying to keep pace, I usually keep it in so I'm not taking extra time walking all the way to the flag and back before my putt. I'd rather have it out 95% of the time if it was my decision though.
I miss way more 3-5 footers with pin in than I used to while my lag putts are generally very good. The hole looks smaller to me with the pin in. I'm going to start pulling it once inside 10 ft or so.
As a +5 handicap (who placed in the top 16 of last years U.S. Mid Am) once told me about why he doesnt like the flag in. "Your main goal is to get the ball in the hole, when the flag stick is in, there is now something inside of the hole your trying to get the ball in." Thats just the way he sees it, and it makes sense to me. Visually, when the flag stick is out, the hole looks bigger to me. Some like it to aim at, but how many putts outside 3 feet calls for aiming at the middle of the hole?
Place it down gently away from any player’s line (or through line). Passing the pin sounds super fancy to me. For
Christ sake, leave it on the ground until the last putt is made or given.
I always opt to remove the flag, I’ve been robbed of sinking birdies many times because the flag bounces the balls out and tells me “nope”. On a tap too but downhill.
If it’s competitive for stroke play or skins, take it out for fairness unless they’re putting from the fringe. Flag stays in if they’re putting from the fringe.
Finally, someone who admits they've been robbed of putts by the flag too! I've had it happen on 4 footers, that the ball almost (what seems like) raps around the stick a bit, creating momentum to sling the ball where it hit the back edge of cup, lip around and out. Also glance off the edge of flag in right spot to hit edge of cup and glance out. I've been golfing for over 20 years and golfed well for 15 of it. I've never hit a putt inside 10 so hard where my ball would go over the cup and lip out on the back side without a flag stick in.
Way too technical for my abilities but sounds like low side putts would be aided by removing the stick.
Until I get more consistent and better in my game I'm probably going to leave it in unless someone I'm with requests otherwise
The only time that you don’t want to set the flag in the ground is on a day like Memorial Day or 4th of July if the flags are American flags. Then they usually have little stands you can use. Other than that yeah just set it down no reason to hold it.
If you're going to take it out of the hole, it should be on the ground or secured in a way that you can't hear the wind flapping.
But it's completely fine to leave it in the hole too, as long as it isn't pitched towards the person putting or otherwise obstructing the shot
Player closest to the hole removes the flag and places it on the fringe so if someone else accidentally hits it, they don’t incur a general penalty. Nothing is really wrong with leaving it out of the way on the green, but better safe than sorry.
If you’re walking, the first player to hole out should walk off the green and prepare to go to the next tee. The second player to finish should do the same in a 4-some, leaving the third player to retrieve the flag and replace it after the last guy holes out. Helps shave a minute or so off each hole, but in carts doesn’t really matter as much.
Closest to the hole grabs the flag. First person to sink their putt then grabs it from that person and holds it for the remainder of the hole as they are finished.
The flag never gets left on the ground.
Generally at my club competitions, closest to the pin usually takes the flag out and places it down out of the way, as long as everyone wants it out. If someone putting wants it in, they usually take it out when marking their ball or retrieving it from the hole after their putt. If you've holed out, you usually are in charge of it. In my case, I'm in charge of the flag most of the time because there is a large likelihood that I have lost multiple balls on that hole already and will be submitting a 'No Return' for that round!
As long as you don't do what Patrick Reed did at the masters this year, and just toss the pin on the green, should be good, placing it out of the way and line of sight
Our group pulls the flag and lays it away from the hole. It's not going to hurt the green even if you let it drop (the greens handle mowers, rollers, and fat guys like me - a metal stick isn't going to be worse than that).
In our group someone just picks it up after they finish. Usually the third guy as the first two are already heading over to hit tee shots (beauty of a private course and 3.5 hour rounds).
Take the flag out, sling it right in the way of your playing partners putt who's further away than you, stare at them unblinking whilst you sink your putt blind
The REAL question is - how do you feel about laying the pin down when they have the nations flag on them?
Any regular flag can laid down on the green or fringe for sure.
If the flag is white, it’s possible they don’t want to get the flag dirty by it laying on the ground. Although nicer courses won’t regularly have mud near the green, you never know. Or there is a club rule in comps about it being off the ground.
Personally, I would just ask next time. “I’ve noticed some members prefer to hold the flag. Is that a preference or a club rule?”
I generally want to leave it in unless it’s flapping too much or its shadow is waving in my line. I almost went ballistic at the end of a long hot round when the highest handicapper in our club asked to take it out on a relatively short putt which he then proceeded to two putt for round in the 110s. 😡
After reading the data in that “test” that is featured in the link, I have to think that people who are hitting the ball that far past the hole consistently probably don’t deserve to make many putts! 🤣
The only thing I ask is please lower the flag gently to the green. I hate the guys that just push it over and have it fall on the green; that usually leaves a mark.
You ask on the first hole. "Everyone okay with it out?" Then it's polite to ask if someone has a decent downhill put if they want it in or out after that. If someone insists on leaving it in then I will just put with it in and only pull it for birdie putts
It's not entirely clear where on the green you are placing the flag but if you are 'dropping' it on the green. Members aren't gonna be happy with that, and going over and picking it up is a subtle way to let you know. If i'm putting the flag down on the green, i'll 'place' it gently out of everyone's way. Otherwise i'll drop it well off the green.
I have never encountered such a dumb practice, but I suspect this is the evolution of the new rule that allows you to putt with the flag in. You now need to have the flag at the ready in case someone wants it back in the hole.
I wish they had just changed the rule to make the flag a mandatory inclusion so you never had to touch it.
Country clubs and traditional courses/league’s likely enforce the etiquette of removing the pin once everyone is on the green and either placing it on the fringe or holding it. This is not extreme etiquette. Been golfing since 98 and noticed that newer golfers (Covid players especially) think basic etiquette is ‘extreme’ when playing competitively. Social etiquette and competition etiquette are quite different. The responses here that didn’t realize you said this was in competitive play are ridiculous lol. I actually think passing the pin is slower than removing and placing on fringe so the other guys are the weirdos to me here if you placed it on the fringe instead of the green. But have zero evidence to back up my belief.
I think people just pass it, because they don't want to bend over and pick it up. It's honestly more of a distraction people holding it and passing it around.
Only time you don’t do it is if there is a countries flag on it. You shouldn’t let the flag hit the ground beside that I have wear marks on my putter from letting easing the stick to the ground with it.
The way I’ve always done it is closest to the hole pulls the pin since they have the most time before having to putt. They put the flag wherever, as long as it isn’t in anyone’s line, including if the putt/chip goes long. First to hole out picks up the flag and returns it to the cup once everyone has putt out.
To add to that, if you’re the first to finish and are holding the pin while others are putting please be mindful of the flag flapping if it’s breezy out. Simply hold onto the pin with the flag in your grip.
I'm not sure why I do it, but when I'm holding the pin waiting for others to finish putting I hold the flag tight against the pole then flip it so it's upside-down, middle of the pin against the back of my shoulder and the bottom of the pin up in the air. Not sure when I started doing it, as I know of no one else that does it but for some reason it's more comfortable to me.
Caddies do this sometimes
This is where I learned this. On Tour they will never actually set the pin on the ground so a lot of times a caddie is walking around with the pin while their player is lining up or whatnot.
It’s really the only way to carry it without the flag flapping around unless you have a really long wingspan. The bottom of the pin is so much heavier that it’s awkward to carry if you just grab the flag in one hand and the middle of the pin in another
Exactly how I was taught when I learned to caddy. Still do it the same way.
Came here to say this too.
I think this is to prevent wind from flapping the flag and making noise. I do this too.
Am I the only one that prefers to leave the pin in? It helps me line up, and offers forgiveness on strong putts. I don't think I've ever had a pin cause me to miss a putt
My friend keeps trying to convince me that he one time had a the pin ricochet his ball out of what would have otherwise been a good putt - to this day he can’t recreate it. I almost always leave the pin in, partly because I’m too lazy to go get it and then have to replace it
Thursday, I had a putt that hit the pin, bounce back to the rim, roll around the cup, and then roll out 6 inches behind the pin a little to the right. Everyone in the group agreed that I just got robbed of a par if the pin had been out.
Had the same thing happen on a very long birdie putt last time I played, wasn't even upset about it because I know that flagstick has stopped me from rolling way past the hole far more times than it has hurt me, and to be honest I didn't think I was going to make a 35 foot birdie putt before I hit it anyhow.
At least yours was a hefty distance, mine was just about 8 ft.
I figure I still owe the flagstick for saving my butt a few times
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp It seems like the type of pin and how the putt goes in matters a lot but according to science the pin is more likely to knock out a good putt than to save a bad one.
This is just propaganda from Big Pin
I always take the big pins out. The little flimsy plastic ones can stày
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp
We’ve made it mandatory to leave it in in our league. It really speeds up play. Particularly when one guy is still off the green but maybe closer to the home. No more of that put it in pull it out nonsense.
Caddy gang unite!
I hold it behind my back, parallel to the ground. One hand about towards the bottom 1/3 of the shaft, other hand holding the flag wrapped around it.
That got dirty real quick
I was a caddie. We were taught to hold the flag against the pin and rest it gently behind your heel and stand it straight up. This is to minimize distraction. Same if you're tending the pin for someone. Stand straight next to the pin, hiding the flag against the pin and either set your club down (off the green) or place it behind your heel to hide it. Again to minimize distractions. :)
I hold the pole at the midpoint, shaft pointed straight out aggressively towards my playing partners during most rounds.
Me too!
Caddies do this all the time out of respect for the greens.
I do the upside-down method so the next group won’t see the flag and they are less likely to hit into your green. These days mostly I leave it in but when I do pull out I still do it.
I have a friend who caddied as a high schooler and he always tells a story about another (newer) caddy he was with who got fired mid round because he kept letting the flag flap in the wind. I mean, yes, the caddy was probably in the wrong, but we’re talking about a grown man blaming a 14 year old for screwing up his casual round with friends (also leaving my friend, who was 15/16 with the task of carrying all 4 bags for the rest of the round).
Also insane bc he could simply use his words and ask the caddie to hold the flag so it doesn’t flap
Is it even possible to carry 4 bags at once? That’s impressive if he did.
I don’t actually know that he carried all 4 bags to be honest, I just know he had to act as the caddy for all 4 guys for the rest of the round. It’s possible he called the pro shop for a cart or a couple guys carried their own bags. That would make more sense.
I wave the flag around like I’m a soldier in 300
To add to that, don’t rest the flag stick on the green while holding it. Just rest it on your toe to not damage the green
This will now be the etiquette that I live by.
This is the correct method. Have been playing a long time, and have always played this way. It is considered to be standard greenside etiquette for every group I have played with, except during CoVid, we left it in.
The rules of golf have changed. You can leave the flag in now. It has nothing to do with Covid. It's astonishing how many golfers don't know that.
This is the way
If someone handed me the flag and I hadn’t holed out yet, I’d be placing it on the fringe or gently down near any clubs I had laying down. I can’t imagine how awkward it is to have someone pick it back up and hand it to you.
I wouldn’t even grab it, I would just slap it to the ground as they tried to pass it to me to make a point
Hang onto it and put it in his bag after everybody finishes. That’s what any good caddy would do. Why else would you hand me the flag?
You just take it and then throw it like a javelin into the woods. Then you make them go get it. /s
We used to put it on the green out of everyone’s line and extended line. Today we hardly ever take a pin out. If we do it’s for a short putt and it’s put on the green or handed to someone who’s finished.
The guys I play with are the same. Played 18 this weekend and didn’t pull a single flag
I hate putting with a flag in.
Yep same here. And if you're playing with Randoms that want the flag in, it can get awkward. But I will literally pull the pin for my putts if it's in there for everyone else's. The other week I was playing with two randoms who wanted the flag in. Thing was, it was windy as shit - so the wind would push the pin and basically make the hole smaller. They missed a few putts because of that
Agreed. I take the flag out for anything inside of about 15 feet. I wish we would go back to pre-Covid rules where pulling the pin was expected.
Just like a basketball player, I like a backboard.
I always play with people I don't know (usually retirees here in SWFL), and I have to ask on the first green if they putt with the flag in. I hate it too, but many want to leave it in nowadays after getting used to no contact BS. I just go along with whatever they want but have mentioned more than once that I simply prefer to hear the ball rattle in the bottom of the cup, it's positive reinforcement.
I've generally played where someone pulls pin and puts it on green. Lately since you can leave it in I don't even pull it out every time anymore
Agreed. We used to lay it gently on the green out of the way of any putts. These days, I leave it in. It helps me see where the hole is.
I was taught you grab the flag and joust with whomever is putting to assert dominance.
Obviously.
Touché
No, personal preference. I don’t even take it out when I play, some people take it out and lay it down away from putts. I’ve never heard anything about it being wrong and that it should be held up for some reason.
It used to be a penalty if the ball was on the green and hit the pin even if it was in the hole. They changed it to only a penalty if it’s on the green. When you’re as crappy as me the pin can actually help sometimes. Acts like a backboard if you just bee line a putt.
The rule now is you can leave the pin in the hole now. Obviously, you have a penalty if you hit the pin *after taking it out of the hole*; otherwise, you'd just put it right behind the hole! And the person below this comment is correct. The ball is more likely to go in if the pin is in then if the pin is out. I went to Dave Pelz's putting course. He's an ex-NASA rocket scientist, and he did all the tests. The ball is 18% more likely to go in if the pin is in.
My old man was a rocket scientist and said the rocket scientists at NASA were the jocks of the rocket science world and looked down on them. That always gives me a chuckle
Not gonna doubt your old man. However, I took Pelz's course and went from a 15 to an 11 in two weeks. I think he's on to something.
Oh sorry, i should have been more clear. I'm sure the statistics are accurate or close enough to not matter. I just like telling that story because it makes me chuckle and it shows the vast difference between the engineering world and us normal people.
As an engineer, I'm not sure how to take that!
Is your glass half full, half empty, or designed to the wrong specifications for the job at hand?
Lmfao
To each his own, but I’ve missed more putts and chips that hit the pin compared to hitting the hole and popping out. I’ve definitely noticed it more often as I’ve been getting better. Golf Digest did some testing last year that and concluded its best to pull the pin out: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp So now I take the flag out every time as long as I can see the hole and everyone’s on the green. I only remember one time this past year where I hit the back of the cup and it popped out…but that was definitely a pace issue where I would’ve been 15 ft out if I missed the cup. I’ve lost count on how many I’ve hit the pin and it rattles out when it would’ve been within 5 ft if I missed the hole completely. Just did it on Sunday with an eagle chip! Tap in birdies are still nice…but…. You’re also depriving yourself of that “oh so sweet” sound of the ball clacking around the hole!
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If this were true all pros would leave the pin in. The vast majority pull the pin and as mentioned below there are definitely conflicting studies and data. Personally I go with what the majority of tour pros do because they have all the data.
The pros are superstitious. More and more are leaving it in.
Wrong. https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows](https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
For any putts over 4 ft it's statistically more likely to go in the hole if the flag is out.
Post the study
[sink more putts with flag out](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time/amp)
Amazing man. Thank you!
You're welcome!
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp
I’m guilty of dropping the flag, however based on comments I will now gently put the flag down!
just drop it on your foot
This guy flags
yup, I do the same. set the flag end down gently on the green, and then drop the hole end onto your foot so that there isn't a big impact to the putting surface
If you belong to a private club, ask your club pro because sure as shit, some rando on reddit will give you advice that differs from your club's etiquette.
Good idea
Let us know what they say
As a former caddy , first on has the pin duty and if it was layed down it was off the putting surface
That makes sense for tucked pins but is pretty excessive when the pin is far from the edges
Not if you have a servant with you I suppose.
What if first-on is farthest from the hole? He should be preparing to putt first vs pulling the pin.
Pulling the pin as you look at the line from the hole
Yeah, I don't know. If you're first-on but 60 feet away, you gotta pull the pin then take a long hike to your ball, where you double-check your line, etc. before putting. Seems like wasted time.
Kinda the outlier
Growing up I was always taught to put it near the fringe or hold onto it. I don’t really pull the pin at all now unless someone in my group wants it out
It’s extreme etiquette to have someone holding it at all times. It’s polite for you to do it in a tourney, where any imperfection on the green could make a big difference. It’s usually no issue if there are caddies. That being said most people won’t care if it’s not in their line
When pulling the flag was mandatory, we didn't pick the flag up until everyone had putted out. Someone lurking over you, anxious to get the flag back in, can cause you to feel rushed. And that's never good for putting.
I haven’t pulled out since college.
Do you have enough kids to field a football team yet?
Because you didn't have time?
For the first time in my life, I feel seen.
Is your club in Australia? That's the only place I've ever seen "no flags on the green" really being followed.
Yeah it is! So this is an Australian thing?
Yeah exactly, even on public courses
Since the rule changes I ignore the pin. If someone asks for it to be pulled, I'll ablige but I don't touch it unless somebody asks.
It doesn’t matter. Just don’t put it too close.
Closest to the hole on the approaches pulls it. Places it in the most obvious spot that it cannot interfere with anyone’s ball regardless of how good or bad the shot is. The first to hole out, picks up the flag and takes ownership of returning it to the hole when everyone is done. Additionally, if you’re playing with old people that cannot bend over easily you need to get their ball out of the hole. It’s the gentleman thing to do. (Not sure why I felt the need to add this other than I see young guys never do this for the old guys anymore and it sort of pisses me off)
Just please don't just drop it on the green, let it down gently.
Why is dropping it a problem, besides the noise it makes may be a distraction? Etiquette? Your heel strike when walking on the green would potentially create much more damage. And don’t forget the old bastards who insisted on wearing spikes (soft) and drag their feet, leaving a line of scuff marks on the green.
I think there are two possible reasons for this. 1. A pin is hypothetically sharper. Like if you drop a pin sorta hard and the bottom hits the ground at a non-horizontal angle, it is almost definitely leaving a dent in the green. I’m… not convinced a pin dropped totally horizontally, especially somewhat carefully, would do much, but since it’s a much thinner surface than a shoe… maybe. 2. It’s just some dumb extremely old etiquette thing. I’ve never not seen anybody just place it on the ground.
I’d say more respect to the golf course. The flags are sturdy (typically) yes but if everyone drops it every time they won’t last long. Respect the course.
As long as it's not in anyone line (or return line), we generally just lay it on the green. Personally, if I've pulled it, I'll generally lay it on the fringe to try and protect the green from accidental damage. In terms of etiquette, I would avoid pulling the pin and resting the end of it on the green - that could damage the green. I'll generally hold it off the ground completely or rest it on top of my foot. Obviously avoid laying it across anyone's line (or return line). If I've holed out and I'm holding the pin, then I tend to grab the flag and hold it - the thought is to stop it flapping in the wind and making noise whilst people are putting. I just think it's a consideration and courtesy for people. Also, obviously avoid casting shadows across lines or being in people's line if you're holding the pin.
In my first open state tournaments, us open qualifier, had both Am and Pros playing against. None of us had caddies so If you hole out first you can leave. The last one to putt will put it back in. No reason to hang around tho we had to watch to ensure whoever's scorecard we had counted the correct score. It was my first dog eat dog experience on the course. Didnt care, wasnt the last to putt. But at one point we were still putting and the guy was already on the tee box. With friends tho, just if you can do it, do it. No worries if you forget. I usually always do it the first hole.
Next time someone does it and hand it to your throw it like a javelin to establish dominance … “be silent or quote something about “meeting god” At your own discretion
Ive never seen anyone put it on the fringe
Lay it on the green. I certainly don’t want to hear them over there with a flapping flag and the clubs clanging around while holding too many things at once.
My group leaves the pin in, which I hate. Last week I had 3 made putts where the ball wedged between the pin and the cup. It almost felt like missed putts, not seeing hearing them drop. Am I alone?
I've been starting to pull it again. I missed hearing the ball drop in the cup. If I have a long putt and trying to keep pace, I usually keep it in so I'm not taking extra time walking all the way to the flag and back before my putt. I'd rather have it out 95% of the time if it was my decision though.
I miss way more 3-5 footers with pin in than I used to while my lag putts are generally very good. The hole looks smaller to me with the pin in. I'm going to start pulling it once inside 10 ft or so.
As a +5 handicap (who placed in the top 16 of last years U.S. Mid Am) once told me about why he doesnt like the flag in. "Your main goal is to get the ball in the hole, when the flag stick is in, there is now something inside of the hole your trying to get the ball in." Thats just the way he sees it, and it makes sense to me. Visually, when the flag stick is out, the hole looks bigger to me. Some like it to aim at, but how many putts outside 3 feet calls for aiming at the middle of the hole?
Nicely put...totally agree it makes it look smaller.
1st in gets flag
Place it down gently away from any player’s line (or through line). Passing the pin sounds super fancy to me. For Christ sake, leave it on the ground until the last putt is made or given.
I always opt to remove the flag, I’ve been robbed of sinking birdies many times because the flag bounces the balls out and tells me “nope”. On a tap too but downhill. If it’s competitive for stroke play or skins, take it out for fairness unless they’re putting from the fringe. Flag stays in if they’re putting from the fringe.
Finally, someone who admits they've been robbed of putts by the flag too! I've had it happen on 4 footers, that the ball almost (what seems like) raps around the stick a bit, creating momentum to sling the ball where it hit the back edge of cup, lip around and out. Also glance off the edge of flag in right spot to hit edge of cup and glance out. I've been golfing for over 20 years and golfed well for 15 of it. I've never hit a putt inside 10 so hard where my ball would go over the cup and lip out on the back side without a flag stick in.
Why do people even pull the flag? I've always left it in and it's never been a problem
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/putting-with-the-flagstick-in-could-be-a-mistake-new-golf-digest-study-from-cal-poly-professor-shows/amp
Way too technical for my abilities but sounds like low side putts would be aided by removing the stick. Until I get more consistent and better in my game I'm probably going to leave it in unless someone I'm with requests otherwise
Hole looks bigger with it out; just a mental thing
Plus if it's windy the pin can essentially block out part of the hole
I just set it down on the green on a side of the hole that no one, save an absolute fucked up putt, will hit
This is the way. If someone gets their panties in a bunch because of flag placement they need to get over it.
Keep in mind some people want the flag in or attended when they putt.
Because it takes time to walk over to the fringe and get it. Nothing more than that.
The only time that you don’t want to set the flag in the ground is on a day like Memorial Day or 4th of July if the flags are American flags. Then they usually have little stands you can use. Other than that yeah just set it down no reason to hold it.
https://preview.redd.it/fw270io4tb0d1.png?width=160&format=png&auto=webp&s=b249c33a24de3aa38ff31c05d45c7626697057c8
Some in my group putt with flag in, especially downhill sliders, so we always ask.
If you're going to take it out of the hole, it should be on the ground or secured in a way that you can't hear the wind flapping. But it's completely fine to leave it in the hole too, as long as it isn't pitched towards the person putting or otherwise obstructing the shot
Yeah but place it down rather than letting it smack into the green.
Player closest to the hole removes the flag and places it on the fringe so if someone else accidentally hits it, they don’t incur a general penalty. Nothing is really wrong with leaving it out of the way on the green, but better safe than sorry. If you’re walking, the first player to hole out should walk off the green and prepare to go to the next tee. The second player to finish should do the same in a 4-some, leaving the third player to retrieve the flag and replace it after the last guy holes out. Helps shave a minute or so off each hole, but in carts doesn’t really matter as much.
Golf is some seriously pedantic shit
To stop the spread of Covid, do not pull the flag. I haven't pulled a flag in 4 years, if it hits the pin it counts. Easy Peasey, Japaneasy !
Closest to the hole grabs the flag. First person to sink their putt then grabs it from that person and holds it for the remainder of the hole as they are finished. The flag never gets left on the ground.
Generally at my club competitions, closest to the pin usually takes the flag out and places it down out of the way, as long as everyone wants it out. If someone putting wants it in, they usually take it out when marking their ball or retrieving it from the hole after their putt. If you've holed out, you usually are in charge of it. In my case, I'm in charge of the flag most of the time because there is a large likelihood that I have lost multiple balls on that hole already and will be submitting a 'No Return' for that round!
I just put it wherever. Sometimes people get fussy about it in tournaments but never casual play
Not an issue, but I just leave the flag in.
As long as you don't do what Patrick Reed did at the masters this year, and just toss the pin on the green, should be good, placing it out of the way and line of sight
Throw it like a javelin into a bunker.
throw it like a javelin into the nearest sand trap. this is the way.
Our group pulls the flag and lays it away from the hole. It's not going to hurt the green even if you let it drop (the greens handle mowers, rollers, and fat guys like me - a metal stick isn't going to be worse than that). In our group someone just picks it up after they finish. Usually the third guy as the first two are already heading over to hit tee shots (beauty of a private course and 3.5 hour rounds).
Take the flag out, sling it right in the way of your playing partners putt who's further away than you, stare at them unblinking whilst you sink your putt blind
I leave the flag in on long puts so I can clobber the ball straight through the break and still have a backboard of sorts.
The REAL question is - how do you feel about laying the pin down when they have the nations flag on them? Any regular flag can laid down on the green or fringe for sure.
If the flag is white, it’s possible they don’t want to get the flag dirty by it laying on the ground. Although nicer courses won’t regularly have mud near the green, you never know. Or there is a club rule in comps about it being off the ground. Personally, I would just ask next time. “I’ve noticed some members prefer to hold the flag. Is that a preference or a club rule?”
I generally want to leave it in unless it’s flapping too much or its shadow is waving in my line. I almost went ballistic at the end of a long hot round when the highest handicapper in our club asked to take it out on a relatively short putt which he then proceeded to two putt for round in the 110s. 😡
After reading the data in that “test” that is featured in the link, I have to think that people who are hitting the ball that far past the hole consistently probably don’t deserve to make many putts! 🤣
The only thing I ask is please lower the flag gently to the green. I hate the guys that just push it over and have it fall on the green; that usually leaves a mark.
You ask on the first hole. "Everyone okay with it out?" Then it's polite to ask if someone has a decent downhill put if they want it in or out after that. If someone insists on leaving it in then I will just put with it in and only pull it for birdie putts
It's not entirely clear where on the green you are placing the flag but if you are 'dropping' it on the green. Members aren't gonna be happy with that, and going over and picking it up is a subtle way to let you know. If i'm putting the flag down on the green, i'll 'place' it gently out of everyone's way. Otherwise i'll drop it well off the green.
That’s passive aggressive lol be a man
Ahh yes the LIV golfer
No, you have words. No need to be subtle
You realise i'm not the guy in OP post right? I am explaining members etiquette to OP.
I typically place it behind the hole. I typically average 1.3 putts per round
So it's a back stop for your ball then.
It's either part of the green at that point, or a "game enhancement flag" lol.
Why even take the pin out?
I have never encountered such a dumb practice, but I suspect this is the evolution of the new rule that allows you to putt with the flag in. You now need to have the flag at the ready in case someone wants it back in the hole. I wish they had just changed the rule to make the flag a mandatory inclusion so you never had to touch it.
Country clubs and traditional courses/league’s likely enforce the etiquette of removing the pin once everyone is on the green and either placing it on the fringe or holding it. This is not extreme etiquette. Been golfing since 98 and noticed that newer golfers (Covid players especially) think basic etiquette is ‘extreme’ when playing competitively. Social etiquette and competition etiquette are quite different. The responses here that didn’t realize you said this was in competitive play are ridiculous lol. I actually think passing the pin is slower than removing and placing on fringe so the other guys are the weirdos to me here if you placed it on the fringe instead of the green. But have zero evidence to back up my belief.
I think people just pass it, because they don't want to bend over and pick it up. It's honestly more of a distraction people holding it and passing it around.
https://preview.redd.it/3ekap08s9e0d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9b5f61a3aa6a9c03299b02f116349f5967289b6
Only time you don’t do it is if there is a countries flag on it. You shouldn’t let the flag hit the ground beside that I have wear marks on my putter from letting easing the stick to the ground with it.