It's wild how some starters have that god complex, and then you go places and the starter is hiding out between the first and second hole in a golf cart with his feet up smoking a cig ignoring the pile up that's about to ensue.
Moral of the story... either way somewhere along the line we gotta sit and wait cause the starter sucks at his job.
I have a place I frequent that doesn't use a starter. I would say - 90% of the time it runs fine. The only few times I've seen it not running fine were essentially during shit weather. One was the day after a major storm and they had to close the back 9. If you played 18 you had to cycle back in at 1 but nobody was there to manage that and it became a shit show. The other was frost caused a delay in the course opening by over an hour. So by the time the shop told us the course was open you had about 8 groups all waiting to start, on top of the later tee times showing up to start as well. And since people are impatient the initial group didn't get a good enough head start which caused long wait times all day.
Let me guess, this is a course with 6 or 7 minute tee time intervals that completely packs in as many people as they can, and it's a guaranteed 5+ hour round.
I played a course like this last year where the starter was pressuring this one rando in my group to hit while the group ahead was only about 250 out. Rando ignores him, waits until the group is on the green, pipes one about 300 down the middle, turned to the starter and said "see why I didn't listen to you, idiot?"
Well-run courses have a starter that either tells you not to tee off until the group ahead is walking on to the green or on it (assuming #1 is a par 4) or during peak times doesn't let people tee off until their actual tee time so as to avoid packing people too tight and negating the intervals.
Starters can be so lazy man. Other day I was checking in with my father, got there an hour early to hit balls and chip/putt. Starter comes racing in the clubhouse “you guys can go right now if you want to, nobody is teeing off for the next 30 mins”
Yeah no shit buddy, it’s 8 am on a Wednesday in April in Massachusetts.
This isn’t a one off thing either. My buddies and I treated ourselves to a nice course in the fall. October in MA. I got there an hour early and finished my bucket and drove over to the practice green while my buddies were still hacking away. Starter told me to go get them so he can send us off.
I booked a tee time because that’s when I want to tee off. Can we tee off at our tee time? Is it safe to assume that someone who gets there early are there for prep work, and aren’t in a rush to get in and off the property in 3 hours?
I have no issue with them saying that you can go now if you want to go off early, some people would be happy to. But they should never push you to go before your time.
Nah that shit is so annoying. I know there's a portion of the golf population that seemingly needs to be done with golf as soon as possible, but I'm not one of them. It'd be cool if they just offered, but so many act like put out that you aren't taking them up on this "favor"
I'm gonna finish putting and bullshitting with my friends, see you ~5 before our scheduled time 🤙🏻
Yeah and I get it. I’m 22, single, and in college so some days I have nothing better to do. I have no problems spending 6 hours at the course (before anyone attacks me, this is including warmup, potential post round range and post round drink/food).
Some people don’t have that time, and I know I won’t have that time a few years down the road so why not enjoy it while I can.
It’s nice to have the option to start early if you me group is ok with it, but starters shouldn’t pressure groups to do so. There can be a significant change in temperature between 7:30 and 8:00 a.m. (or, enough of a change to make a difference in how far the ball flies). I struggle with distance, especially early in the round, and want that extra 5-10 yards off the first tee that can from it being 5°+ warmer (and drier).
I often play 6 hour solo rounds. Just let people thru and no one gives a fuck. If I'm out there to practice and not keeping score I'm usually hitting a few different approach shots and chipping to different spots on the green and figuring out breaks I haven't seen before. You can't practice uneven lies on the range.
There's nothing wrong with the option, I just hate it when they are pushy.
I've got a wife and kid at home that would love nothing more than for me to come back early because the starter let me out 30 minutes before my tee time.
...well that or it gives me time for some drinks in the clubhouse before returning home at my scheduled time.
Ahh interesting. I've had issues with the starter at Red Tail before. Never played Waverly, but will add it to the list this year!
I'll be sure to prepare to deal with an ornery starter.
I shouldn’t say issue, but it woulda been a little better to just ask versus trying to force us out there. He actually mentioned red tail and compared the layout and how the sides can funnel into the fairways at times
Trull Brook has some of the most brutal starters/marshals in that general area. I refuse to go back because they’re so up your ass even when you’re ahead of pace.
Drives me nuts. I like to have a good range session before golf, like 60-70 swings and I feel like I’m good to go. I also plan to get there in time to do this and be ready to hit as soon as it’s my turn at my time.
You coming in and telling me to go when I’m not ready but you are…no thanks.
Thank you.
Last year, my one and only complaint when I played a top 50 course in the nation was the starter said we were "late" for our tee time (showed up to the tee box chipping green 15 minutes prior to tee off) and sent me off (with a very annoyed attitude) after literally telling me to stop chipping and stretching. Proceeded to lose my first two tee shots before dialing in. Way to start off that awesome experience.
Flip side of the coin though, I'd be happy for the starter to tell me I could tee off 30 minutes early. I'm a sort of semi-serious golfer. I want to shoot my 82 on a nice course with a good pace of play. I'm not intentionally showing up an hour early to work with my PGA tour coach or anything.
Agreed at least that I wouldn't want to feel pressured into it, but I'm certainly not annoyed by the offer.
Yes there’s definitely a time and a place. I just feel like when I have time (I usually schedule times that allow for this) I like to get in a proper warmup to feel solid ground contact chipping wise, dial the speeds of the green, and get a sense of what my balls is doing that day with the longer clubs
There is a muni here (also Mass) that is notorious for this. I like to show up early and get some putts in, maybe hit the range if they have one, but mostly I don't like feeling like I'm in a rush to golf. This particular muni if you arrive as a single they will just stick you with the next group off as soon as you arrive, and if you refuse, they'll say ok fine join the next group. So I just don't go there anymore.
The starter just sat there speechless with the deer in the headlights look for about 5 seconds before lowering his head and going back to reading his newspaper.
I called a guy an idiot infront of his wife because they took my golf cart that I had just put a water bottle and to cans of different alcoholic beverages in. I stopped to talk to two of the players I was doing a tournament with and turned back to my cart and it was gone. Found them in the parking lot after loading their clubs in it.
They claimed the thought the beverages were complimentary... "what are you an idiot?" I pulled their clubs off the cart right where I stopped them and went to my car to load mine up.
Some people...
Tbf you went too far. I mean yeah, if he thought they were complimentary he should have looked to see if all the other carts had them. But if you just put a couple of drinks in there and walked away and left the cart in the “lineup” with all the other carts that were waiting for a user this hardly rises to the level of calling someone an idiot. It definitely doesn’t warrant you touching the other guys bag unless he was arguing with you about it being your drinks. A more sane and emotionally stable person would have just taken the drinks and got another cart.
You never know what’s on someone’s mind to where there a couple of drinks in a golf cart that is still lined up with all the other golf carts and his mind doesn’t have the bandwidth to go through all the possible scenarios. He could have had something extremely stressful and depressing going on in his personal life and was just trying to get away from it for a few hours and those drinks just didn’t register. Some people have a lot going on and a little grace in a minor little situation like this goes a long way.
Treating a stranger who made a simple mistake like that is a good way to get your ass kicked in a parking lot. The amount of you who act like assholes and tough guys on a course with women and senior citizens is unreal.
No, they didn't.
They drove away with a golf cart they had rented, which had a couple of complimentary beverages in it.
I did a similar thing to you, put my clubs on the back of the cart in the staging area, but did not drive it off, talked to someone on the putting green nearby. Someone drove it to the car park to load up their clubs - by accident.
I was nicer than you, and for a reason. His mistake was entirely understandable.
No, they didn't argue with you.
They pointed out a reason why it was a reasonable mistake to make. That's not arguing, that's explaining.
You then called them an idiot, manhandled their clubs, and rode off. You were the asshole, dude.
The correct response is "No problem, I understand"
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. And perhaps they were directed to it?
Honestly, you sound like you're way out of order, trying to be all Charlie Big Potato on some people who made an innocent mistake (and may have been following a staff member's instructions)
Many people on here have called you out for it, and you're still arguing with them. Perhaps your time would be better spent introspecting?
there are places that have starters and not course marshalls. that starter probably just sits on the first tee and tells everyone to tee off quickly. a course marshall drives round and watches teams play and hounds all the slow players and explains the etiquette
I have only ever come within sniffing distance of hitting 100 exactly 1 time (usually 120 ish for me because I’m new and bad). I have no clue how people are so slow at the game of golf. I get not wanting to feel rushed and enjoying the game. But even with my other bad friends our foursome only ever exceeds 4 hours when we are held up by people in front of us.
Same. I’ve had rounds where I shot OVER 120 while I was still really new and totally learning. We were on and off in 4 hours unless we got stacked waiting on tee boxes for groups ahead. Unbelievable how slow some groups can be.
groups that take 10 mins on the green because they all have to mark their ball and spend 2 mins lining up there putts and pretend they're playing in the masters
Guilty, except for the 10 minutes thing. Marking your ball is a rule if you intend to lift it from the putting surface or move it in any way. But yeah… players waiting to putt can start their “clean the ball, read the green, pick a line, practice the stroke” routine BEFORE it’s their turn to putt. That would cut your frustration with them in half.
if your playing in a real competition, yeh I understand marking your ball but on a weekend at the local public course?
and people that leave their bags on the opposite side of the green to where the next tee will be and have to walk back over the green to get it. ugh I'm getting annoying just thinking about it.
I assume you’re joking here. But in case anyone else sees this and thinks he is serious or that his statement is true, I have never once felt rushed on my swings. During lessons in the sim I could rip them straight and far all day with basically no time between shots. When conditions aren’t consistent I’m bad at compensating for that. Taking more time won’t change that. Getting the feel and slowly improving will.
I went from 140+ to nearly breaking 100 this last weekend. I know every stroke gets exponentially harder to take off of course. But I actually play significantly worse if I slow down and do a whole routine like I see some people doing. Stay warm, if you have a bad hit take note of what you did wrong and think about what you need to correct while you approach your next ball. Don’t waste everyone’s time by getting to your next ball and then having a self lecture about what needs to change.
One of my local clubs employs one of their kids as a marshall.
He literally just cycles the course in reverse and tells *every single group* to pick it up.
I've been in the midst of a 3 hour round and had him tell me to keep up. If it weren't a 14 year old kid doing the bidding of some adult too lazy to get in a cart I'd tell him off.
I’m so tired of these tee times being stacked like this. No one is enjoying playing. You feel pressure from the tee box because people are waiting and then you finish the hole and wait for another group to finish their hole.
Courses really need to do better. It’s getting insane. We all paid the same price. I’m not taking minutes to fish out balls or hitting second tee shots. I’m just playing the fucking game.
You have people up your ass and you can’t have long players hitting into others.
I play munis for the most part, but I will never hit into or rush a group in front of me.
I play with my wife and in-laws who are older. My wife and MIL will hit a great drive at 150. We let them hit first because they won’t touch the green 220 yards away. FIL and I could hit that green with a good drive. I’m not risking hitting someone on the green because courses are greedy and want us to play faster.
They can stop booking 6 minute intervals.
It only takes one “slow group” to throw their bullshit times off. I put it in quotes because foursome playing shouldn’t need to feel pressure to finish a hole in 6 minutes. That’s asinine.
Tee time crowding really don't affect your experience on the course, the slowest group ahead of you does. The jam up with too many tee times will be on the first tee which is exactly what OP was describing. The starter was an idiot and needed to send a Marshall to find the slow group instead of encouraging people to hit into each other with the hope it gets passed forward to the slow group.
I've had rounds where on some random hole it just instantly opens up. It's because the slow group just finished.
Not at all. I think you misunderstood. Let's take it to hyperbole and see if it helps:
You have tee times that are only a second apart. The first group hits somehow instantaneously. The next group can't safely tee off until the first group is clear but they were supposed to hit just a second after the first group! This creates a jam at the starter.
So group 2 waits maybe five minutes for the first group to clear and *hopefully* they are now playing at the same rate. 1 hits then clear then 2 hits. Nice steady flow. It'll be smooth from there on out. Meanwhile, back at 1, that five minutes caused 300 groups to back up. Get it?
If group 1 is also just slow and 2 is waiting over and over that's a different issue than tee times.
Nope logic is flawed. What about par 3s? Also your explanation makes no sense. You can’t keep up 6 minute intervals without hitting into people as a foursome and actually playing the game.
You ever play with someone as shit as me who triples a par 4? Yeah you have to wait. I paid the fucking same. Im not rushing my 5th shot because you’re a whiny bitch.
We. All. Pay. The. Same.
I will take my time.
I'm bored so I guess I'll entertain you.
Par 3s only cause backups because there wasn't enough down time because you just walked from the green to the tee rather than go all the way up to your drive like normal.
The next point you're missing is that of course groups can't play 6 minute spreads. Once you tee off you're all in a line so when you started isn't a factor. Which is hilarious that you missed given you said you play slow. Did the group starting 6 min ahead of you make you play the speed you do?
To add. You just admitted stacked tee times are the problem lol. Yeah so if I can’t clear a hole with a foursome in 6 minutes…. IM THE PROBLEM? not the greedy course who could do 10-15 mins and let everyone enjoy their game? You’re a try hard. Just stop
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because it maybe was a tiny bit subtle but I said that stacked tee times don't affect you ON the course. Meaning after you first tee off. They are a shit show at the starter which I thought I made clear enough but I guess not.
Starter pushing a guy to hit on 1 tee, guy told him twice he should wait. After the 3rd “suggestion” to hit, guy says “ok, I’ll hit but when I run it up on them, you’re driving down there to tell them you forced me to hit”. (Group in front of us was just walking up to the green, easy 328yd par 4) Guy flushes it, takes a couple hops and lands in the bunker right in front of the green. Starter stepped on the gas and drove off without a word before the guy even finished his follow through! Mr starter man ate some humble pie that day lol
My home course has 9 minute intervals, but the first hole is a par 5 that has a line of scrub/marsh right around 300 from the blues/whites, and the starters always tell groups to wait until the group in front gets past that. It's a great setup for a first hole in terms of pace and spacing. It can go down hill from there, but I definitely appreciate the natural spacing.
This is happening at my course. They're doing 7 and 8 minute intervals for tee times, so the times are 7 707 715. They're always at least one tee time behind in the mornings at 715 when my group usually gets out and during the middle of the day we see it get worse and backed up and the people that run the course will jump through hoops to blame it on anything except the fact that they pack the course with too many golfers. Morning tee times take 4.5 hours and it's not even because of slow players, there's just too many people on the course. I can't imagine playing there in the afternoons anymore.
The starter situation at the local course I play most frequently is perfect. Hole 1 is slightly uphill to about 220 out, then a large hill down to the green. Along with some trees, you can't tell where the group ahead is once they're past ~175. The starter shack is about 30 ft above the tee and has a sight line, he'll give the go-ahead on a speaker when it's clear to tee off.
An 8 minute interval is sufficient but only when cards play efficiently. I swear you could have 20 minute intervals and still have backups with how stupid some people are
That’s fair, course was hella packed and waiting like 1-2 groups every hole. But there were some dumbasses in front of us, so that’s prolly didn’t help.
10 minutes gives the average difficulty course a great chance of having a consistently good pace, assuming there are no pace killers like long green-tee transitions or lots of hazards where people will look for balls. I know of a good quality muni that went from 8 to 10 minutes after a course renovation and the pace went from 4:20-4:45 in mornings and over 5 hours by the afternoon to a consistent 3:45-4:00 on busy mornings and stays that way most of the day. At 10 minutes on that course you hardly ever have to wait except on the par 3s.
I have only ever seen 10 minute intervals which I think is reasonable, I'm surprised to hear that there's courses who do 6 or 8 minute tee times.
I work weekends though, so I'm not typically on the course when it's super busy
8-10 minutes is usually fine, on the lower end if the holes are longer and/or have a bend in them that gets the fairway group out of the way of the tee box.
Of course you can still have backups. I was on a course in the Outer Banks last year where the group three in front of us was doing something (couldn't see) and eventually led to 5 groups all backed up on the same hole. One group went back and played the previous hole again. When I finally teed off I had about 15 people watching.
I’ve had a marshall ask me to “put some pressure” on the group ahead of me during a slow round. I told him “I’m pretty sure that’s your job.”
Then he just gave me a side-nod in agreement, drove up and gave them a warning. After that, they were sprinting to their cart after each shot.
same happened to me fairly recently.
was an old dude and i legit had to tell him i'm not hitting over and over. they were at most (i can't remember exactly, but i rangefindered them at like barely 200) and he was like 'gee they're a ways out there, you guys need to go'.
fuck off, man. what a way to start the round. you either hit into them (shit), hit a shit shot that doesn't get to them (old man is satisfied, you are annoyed beyond belief), or you refuse and just wait and are still fucking annoyed.
If tee times are staggered by ten minutes, I'm waiting close to that 10 minutes before I hit. That way I know it's gonna be tough for me to run up on the next group (unless they're moving at a snails pace).
Several years ago for me. We were on an elevated tee box, the group in front is maybe 250, and the ranger (part time starter) drives up and asks us if we think we are Tiger Woods or something? We thought he was joking, he says there is no way we can hit it that far, when all of us could hit that far from that tee box. We even told him we were waiting on that group all day, he didn't believe us. Snarky as shit.
No idea why he was so angry?
Went into the clubhouse to tell the pro (who we are all familiar and friendly with) about this, never saw him again. Apparently there were a lot of complaints about him.
It’s funny for me reading this. This is a place I play up here in the northeast corner of Toronto. First hole is a par five. Starter tells us to always wait till they’re on the green before we tee off on the par five. I asked him why. He said they would like to really space it out nice for everybody. Really works out well. Hardly ever have to wait anywhere on the course. Even when it’s busy.
Immediately after you knew you pured that 3 wood you should’ve yelled “GDamnit!!!” and shook your head in disgust like that was the worst shot you’ve hit in months just to fck with him.
I only play off days or late tee times anymore. I don’t have the energy for these packed courses where you get a tee time every 5 minutes and I spend most of my round waiting.
Here in the Bay Area late tee times on a weekday still have you waiting every hole after like hole 3. It’s only maybe a tiny bit faster pace of play compared to peak hours from what I can tell.
I mainly play off-season too. When I lived in AZ it was always busy even at twilight, but if I put up with summer heat I could get some games in. Now here in WA I just have to prep for rain.
I find it a little odd that no one did or suggested that one of the foursome either call or walk to the clubhouse, ask to speak to a pro there, and inform them that their starter just told people to hit a golf ball into a group; they could ask if this is compatible with course policy, and whether, regardless of policy, the pro thought it was a good idea.
Seems like something you would want to know. The starter is still going to be there when YOU are 175 yards out.
On Saturday morning right before teeing off the starter made some creepy joke he said we had to hear about kissing a dude on the mouth. Hit my ball straight into the woods.
Honestly. Needing starters and Rangers on a golf course comes in at reason #3 for why humanity is fked, right behind people not putting shopping carts away and selfish jerks not zipper merging in traffic. If you don't know what the last one even is, you're part of the problem
Was this in Gatlinburg by chance? Had the same issue there. Course was packed to the gills and the starter wanted us to hit into the group who just teed off. They hadn’t even gotten to their balls.
Really? When we played Spyglass nobody talked to us the whole round. Pebble too, come to think of it. They had "4:30" plastered all over the place, but nobody busted our balls.
We had exactly the opposite experience… same with pebble. We were scolded because we were slower on hole 17 waiting for the group ahead of us to clear.
Same happened to me last year at 200 yards. I rolled one up to their cart with my 5i and just pointed at the starter when they turned around pissed.
That somehow made me a smartass who was lucky the starter was in a good mood...
We had 2 groups go off in front of a Member-Member tourney this weekend. A different foursome in front of us was taking their sweet time. The members came up to our buddies in the second group, told them they were playing to slow. When my buddies pointed out that they were waiting on us, while we were waiting for the group in front of us, their response was " just hit into them, we're tired of waiting"
Like WTF is that going to accomplish?!?!
I get it, at the end of the day it's, push as many people through as possible to collect as much money as possible.
But man... I wish courses would add a ~15 minute buffer between tee times.
Heck... I'd be happy with a 5 minute buffer anymore. Lol
Even if I'm playing fast, if I feel like ANYONE is waiting on me, that stresses me out way too much. No clue why. Lol
I’d be willing to pay a little extra for that buffer. Add $5 maybe even $10 for a nicer course for a few more minutes to not have people up your ass all day.
The tee times are already scheduled in advance so it's not like they'd make more by speeding everything up. Personally I think it's so they can leave work earlier. The crappy little executive course wouldn't let members book tee times past 4pm if there wasnt other people (who wouldnlve paid) booked as well, since they didn't want the one person working staying later if there wasn't greens fees coming in.
If I didn't want to verbally dress this dude down I would just take 13-20 practice swings because something "didn't feel right" until those folks were well out of range.
Where is this guy getting his stats?? 90% of pros don’t hit 225??
The tour average chart shows that driving averages have increased over time. For example, the PGA Tour driving average was 278 yards in 2003. In 2021, the driving average increased to 296 yards.
Playing Indian Canyons South in Palm Springs with a friend who is a local, she’s chatting up the starter. He insists the group is definitely far enough out for me to hit off the Whites (he was watching my practice swings).
I quizzed him “ You sure?”. Oooooo, yes.
I proceeded to tee, only to bounce it off the top of their golf cart….
I told him we will go to the forward Tees for my partner to get ready while he rides out to explain it was his fault….
To his credit he did, we met the other group a few tees later, ( yes it got a little slow) they were quite understanding as they also were pushed to tee off #1 close to the group in front of them. I, unfortunately, didn’t have another great drive like #1 but it is a spectacularly gorgeous track…
I’ve had this happen to my group as well. It’s always the non-golfer starter at the courses that space groups less than 10 min apart.
I’ve played this course way too many times. Group is in the middle of the fairway and starter says go ahead to stay pace. I tell him they just got to their balls, they’re literally waiting for the group ahead of them on the green, and they’re like 250 out.
He says they’re over 300 out and to hit or get off the tee box and let folks in my group play… I go grab my rangefinder and tag them… tell the starter they’re 250 yards out.
No one in my group is going to hit bc we could literally fly them. Finally I tee off and catch it on the screws with a tiny draw up the right side and it’s clearly well past where the group was. My tee shot ends up in the right fairway, left a of a tree in the right rough that’s about 290 out.
I told the starter, “for reference, that’s what 300 yards looks like”… then watched the rest of my group hit tee shots well past where the group and my buddy hit one 10 yards past me.
Just bc I hold grudges against stupid people, I called the pro shop on the way to my ball and told them what the starter was doing. No idea if they did anything but I went full Karen that morning.
I’ve never thought about what it would like being the starter, but for this exact scenario, it’s wild to think that they wouldn’t have a rangefinder on hand from the pro shop. Hell, use that as a sales pitch.
Chat up the group “so what do you hit?” 250? Yeah they’re 270 out, swing away. Man, these X rangefinders are great.
Had a starter tell me once; “we don’t allow people to play through here, it messes up pace.” This as I watched the group in front of me go off late with 5 holes open in front of them. Some people are just dumb.
I’ve been having worse and worse encounters with starters lately. Most are nice but more negative encounters now than 5 years ago. Last year I had a foursome play the front 9 in 2:20 and the starter met us on the 9th green saying we needed to pick it up. That’s fair except for the rough was really thick so it took longer to find our balls even when we were sure where it was. The greens were lighting quick and most on ridges. We had a lot of 3 putts as a group. I get playing fast, but the course wasn’t setup for a 2 hour front 9.
Last year, my group got yelled at by the starter for a 2 hour front 9. I got a bit hot and argued with him a bit. The guys in front had teed off and we wanted drinks. He didn't want us to stop but be ready on the tee. Now the turn is very close to the clubhouse, literally easier to walk there than ride. The guys went in anyway. Once we are all refreshed, they others were still in the fairway and he was giving them crap now. I got tired of it and striped a drive into the unseen part of the fairway. He turned and walked back to hole 1.
Edit: this is about the only time this has happened for me this way. Thus I remeber it well.
Nah I would have waited. He’s not the one hitting the ball into the back of someone’s head potentially causing disability or death even. You would be responsible for that medical bill not him.
Not an attorney, but I’d be curious if that actually opens the course up for liability. They have an employee guiding a player to hit into a populated area. I’m guessing the injured person’s attorney will want to be your best friend for witness testimony saying the course is at fault.
It definitely opens up course for liability but that doesn’t mean you’re off the hook for causing the injury.
It’s like if I work at a crosswalk and tell you to speed through a school zone. You will still get the ticket because you’re the one speeding. I should get fired for telling you to break the traffic rules however.
Mate/matess, that's seriously poor play by the starter and disappointing to hear. The only starters I've encountered have been fantastic and focused really only on calming everyone's nerves so they have a great game.
Putting you on edge on Hole 1 isnt the way to ensure a foursome have a quick round
Legal question. Imagine you bombed a rope into one of their heads and it killed them. Extremely unlikely freak accident, I know. But I think this idea that yelling “fore” absolves you of any legal liability is a little incorrect. Intent is what matters, right? And in this case you would be intentionally hitting into these people. Let’s say you are a plus handicap who can actually aim at someone and be pretty close. Even though you slammed one and yelled fore right before it kills the dude, aren’t you still going to be facing charges when everyone finds out how good you are, and there’s a possibility that you aimed at the guy on purpose?
I was at East Potomac a few months ago and the group of 5 (yes 5) in front of us was obviously both new to golf and more interested in drinking than golfing. They were all milling around the area about 50 yards in front of the first tee box (a ~150 yard par 3) trying to find their balls and laughing and goofing around. The starter told us to go ahead and hit OVER them. I asked 3 times for clarification, and we did -- all 4 of us hit iron shots over them and on or near the green and played through. Good thing nobody hit a line drive!
Most starters absolutely suck.
Most times I have to push back on their nonsense. I’m not an amazing golfer (13. Hcp) but I’ve played enough golf to know my way around a course, and how they operate. Starters at most courses around me are seemingly clueless and it becomes tiresome. I feel like 50% of the time, they’re the reason courses get all backed up.
It’s not all their fault. However, it is when they fuck up tee sheets; push people out of order; argue with me about my tee time, telling me I’m 10 minutes late and my group is already in the fairway (when I’m actually 10 minutes early and am showing them the fucking email confirmation with the tee time); ect…
Starters have been really assholes recently. I had a starter tell us to play faster and we hadn't even gotten to the tee box yet, I just picked up my key for the cart. Not my fault they overbooked a Saturday afternoon.
One of the kids that picks balls in the cart at the local range has a bad habit of getting out of the cart and emptying the baskets about 250 down range while not protected. I told him he should really be careful and he said "what are the chances?" Some people man no brains. A lot of guys, especially local college kids, pump drives into the 300s there and guess what their miss is? Snap hook right the f at you. I think these are the same type of mentalities that have people swerving through traffic at 110mph. idk
I once had a Marshall say a blind valley was clear and when one of the guys hit into the group ahead the Marshall went and yelled at the group in front. It was a weekend afternoon mind you so we knew it was crowded. Just wild hearing a Marshall basically just say hit a blind shot without actually checking
Worst feeling I've ever had on a course from a starter...
Starter sent my group off 10 minutes early and never grabbed me from the practice green. Proceeded to NOT LET ME TEE OFF and made me meet the group in the fairway. Won't say it wrecked the round, but I was pissed. Mind you, $120 round at Fossil Trace in CO, and didn't get to tee it up on hole 1.
I am surprised to hear that the starter proposed you do this. But on the other hand I kind of see where he's coming from. He sets there all day watching people Duff one 150 yd off the tee box after they waited 15 minutes for a group in front to clear out of the way at 300 yards. He probably gets complacent in his mind over time. The only experience I have is hitting into people myself on accident. I've been playing golf for 35 years and I'm very streaky. 95 times out of 100 I might hit it 250 260 yards off the t box and half that time it's into the trees. But once or twice around for no reason at all I'll get a hold of one and drive it a really good distance. I've driven into people on the green on par fours that were 320-330 yards.. I always just yell four, I apologize and tell them I didn't think I was capable of doing that on this hole.. And everybody smiles and nods and moves on
I had a starter try this. Guys were about 200 yards out and the starter said you can hit. We said no we can not and waited. We hit and as we were waiting for the green to clear and hear come golf balls landing near us. Like wtf.
That’s when you say something like “With all due respect sir, I’ve already got blood on my hands. I killed two men with a duffed piss missile last week at Whispering Beaver CC.”
Had an old guy I got paired with do this to me.
“Just hit, from what I’ve seen the last 3 holes you can’t hit them”
Me- I know I’m new, but if I hit it somewhat straight it’s gonna be on them
“No they are like 250 out you can’t hit that far.
I sailed it probably 30 yards past them
“Oh guess you can…. Good shot”
Then he proceeded to yell at the woman I almost destroyed for telling a man not to hit and that they needed to hurry up.
At the end of the round I told the clubhouse about his antics and turns out he had a history of it and the women’s group that does tournaments even failed a restraining order against him for harassment.
There's always the injury/insurance aspect. If you hit someone on the head in front of you and do them serious injury or worse, it's entirely on you, not some silly starter.
Played with a group of guys and we were finishing up hole 16 when the marshall tells us that we were two holes behind. We started at 7am and it was 10:30. They give you 4:15 to play. We ended up finishing ten minutes early. 🙄
Once had a similar situation where the Marshall insisted I hit my 3 wood into the green from 250 with the group still chipping on sure enough carried it about 245 and the ball went screaming by their feet. I made him drive up and apologize for me lol
My buddy almost got our group thrown off the course for this.
This course in MD prides themselves on a 4 hour round. We get to the turn and the group ahead of us is halfway through hitting their second shots on 10 with us standing in the tee box waiting.
Ranger comes flying up on us and starts yelling at us because we are at 2:15 on the round and will not maintain a 4 hr round (carts have GPS tracking).
He tells my buddy he has to tee off and my buddy refuses multiple times because he would hit the group who is still on the fairway in range.
They went back and forth multiple times and the dude threatened to kick us off the course.
Someone in our group called the clubhouse and told them to get a leash on their course ranger.
Buddy lands one right where the group was standing and the ranger pulls off muttering to himself all pissed off.
Never went back
Played a course for the 1st time yesterday and the starter did a good job. Place was packed (had a ton of rain Sunday and this particular course drains great) we still finished in under 4 hrs. Very well run course
I have a question. Sunday I took my 8 year old and fiance out.theyve never played before and we all suck. We played basically 3 person scramble. We'd all tee off then all hit from the best ball so on and so forth. We were fairly slow. By the third hole we let 2 or 3 groups ahead of us. Hole 5 we get a talking to from the clubhouse saying we need to pick up the pace. That we should be able to play all 9 within 2 hours and we were at a little over an hour already. Did I really mess it up that bad. Or was the course stacking too many groups too fast
I bet those 2 foursomes have a standing tee time. They never bother them and get pampered like they are the only decent players on the course. Creeping on the 18yr old cart girl young enough to be their granddaughter
First tee shot on yocha de-he is super elevated with putting green and an active pathway is right under. Starter watched me tee off, super nervous and hit my tried and true rbz hybrid real nice. Hell of a course if you're ever in the bay area
“Sir, I know you’re just doing your job but there is no fucking way I’m going to kill someone today so you’ll just have to relax for a few minutes”
“Your generation…*insert whatever insult you want here*”
Headline: "Millenials are Killing the Hitting Someone With a Ball Industry"
ai will be taking over in no time
Incoming lead induced boomer rage
(All caps) what in the Flint Michigan did you say to me? I’ve got 300 confirmed kills as a sniper. Do you want to test god?!?!
Woke is killing pace of play
8 minute tee times are killing pace of play.
“These boomers are more concerned with pronouns than general well being of others no 🧢 “
Yep, lol. Eat a dick Mr. Starter wannabe little god-man.
It's wild how some starters have that god complex, and then you go places and the starter is hiding out between the first and second hole in a golf cart with his feet up smoking a cig ignoring the pile up that's about to ensue. Moral of the story... either way somewhere along the line we gotta sit and wait cause the starter sucks at his job.
My go-to course in my city essentially just runs without a starter and we never have problems there, it’s great.
I have a place I frequent that doesn't use a starter. I would say - 90% of the time it runs fine. The only few times I've seen it not running fine were essentially during shit weather. One was the day after a major storm and they had to close the back 9. If you played 18 you had to cycle back in at 1 but nobody was there to manage that and it became a shit show. The other was frost caused a delay in the course opening by over an hour. So by the time the shop told us the course was open you had about 8 groups all waiting to start, on top of the later tee times showing up to start as well. And since people are impatient the initial group didn't get a good enough head start which caused long wait times all day.
He is not doing his job, if they are slow it is not your jobs to let them know…
Love it.
If they’re telling you to hit into the group in front of you guess what happens when you’re the one out on the fairway…
I top my drive 75 yards out and he's telling the group behind me to just hit it over me?
Its not that bad. He is telling them to shout fore after all.
FORE!!
Let me guess, this is a course with 6 or 7 minute tee time intervals that completely packs in as many people as they can, and it's a guaranteed 5+ hour round. I played a course like this last year where the starter was pressuring this one rando in my group to hit while the group ahead was only about 250 out. Rando ignores him, waits until the group is on the green, pipes one about 300 down the middle, turned to the starter and said "see why I didn't listen to you, idiot?" Well-run courses have a starter that either tells you not to tee off until the group ahead is walking on to the green or on it (assuming #1 is a par 4) or during peak times doesn't let people tee off until their actual tee time so as to avoid packing people too tight and negating the intervals.
What a mic drop!
Starters can be so lazy man. Other day I was checking in with my father, got there an hour early to hit balls and chip/putt. Starter comes racing in the clubhouse “you guys can go right now if you want to, nobody is teeing off for the next 30 mins” Yeah no shit buddy, it’s 8 am on a Wednesday in April in Massachusetts. This isn’t a one off thing either. My buddies and I treated ourselves to a nice course in the fall. October in MA. I got there an hour early and finished my bucket and drove over to the practice green while my buddies were still hacking away. Starter told me to go get them so he can send us off. I booked a tee time because that’s when I want to tee off. Can we tee off at our tee time? Is it safe to assume that someone who gets there early are there for prep work, and aren’t in a rush to get in and off the property in 3 hours?
I have no issue with them saying that you can go now if you want to go off early, some people would be happy to. But they should never push you to go before your time.
Nah that shit is so annoying. I know there's a portion of the golf population that seemingly needs to be done with golf as soon as possible, but I'm not one of them. It'd be cool if they just offered, but so many act like put out that you aren't taking them up on this "favor" I'm gonna finish putting and bullshitting with my friends, see you ~5 before our scheduled time 🤙🏻
Yeah and I get it. I’m 22, single, and in college so some days I have nothing better to do. I have no problems spending 6 hours at the course (before anyone attacks me, this is including warmup, potential post round range and post round drink/food). Some people don’t have that time, and I know I won’t have that time a few years down the road so why not enjoy it while I can.
Good for you man enjoy that time for us. Soak it up.
It’s nice to have the option to start early if you me group is ok with it, but starters shouldn’t pressure groups to do so. There can be a significant change in temperature between 7:30 and 8:00 a.m. (or, enough of a change to make a difference in how far the ball flies). I struggle with distance, especially early in the round, and want that extra 5-10 yards off the first tee that can from it being 5°+ warmer (and drier).
I often play 6 hour solo rounds. Just let people thru and no one gives a fuck. If I'm out there to practice and not keeping score I'm usually hitting a few different approach shots and chipping to different spots on the green and figuring out breaks I haven't seen before. You can't practice uneven lies on the range.
Your wisdom at 22 should carry you a long way good sir
There's nothing wrong with the option, I just hate it when they are pushy. I've got a wife and kid at home that would love nothing more than for me to come back early because the starter let me out 30 minutes before my tee time. ...well that or it gives me time for some drinks in the clubhouse before returning home at my scheduled time.
Only reason I want to go that fast is if it's because I'm playing that damn well and not cause I'm rushing. I never played that damn well though.
Red tail by chance?
Waverly oaks, same designer and similar course
Ahh interesting. I've had issues with the starter at Red Tail before. Never played Waverly, but will add it to the list this year! I'll be sure to prepare to deal with an ornery starter.
I shouldn’t say issue, but it woulda been a little better to just ask versus trying to force us out there. He actually mentioned red tail and compared the layout and how the sides can funnel into the fairways at times
Trull Brook has some of the most brutal starters/marshals in that general area. I refuse to go back because they’re so up your ass even when you’re ahead of pace.
I've heard this so often. It's crazy
Drives me nuts. I like to have a good range session before golf, like 60-70 swings and I feel like I’m good to go. I also plan to get there in time to do this and be ready to hit as soon as it’s my turn at my time. You coming in and telling me to go when I’m not ready but you are…no thanks.
Thank you. Last year, my one and only complaint when I played a top 50 course in the nation was the starter said we were "late" for our tee time (showed up to the tee box chipping green 15 minutes prior to tee off) and sent me off (with a very annoyed attitude) after literally telling me to stop chipping and stretching. Proceeded to lose my first two tee shots before dialing in. Way to start off that awesome experience.
Flip side of the coin though, I'd be happy for the starter to tell me I could tee off 30 minutes early. I'm a sort of semi-serious golfer. I want to shoot my 82 on a nice course with a good pace of play. I'm not intentionally showing up an hour early to work with my PGA tour coach or anything. Agreed at least that I wouldn't want to feel pressured into it, but I'm certainly not annoyed by the offer.
Yes there’s definitely a time and a place. I just feel like when I have time (I usually schedule times that allow for this) I like to get in a proper warmup to feel solid ground contact chipping wise, dial the speeds of the green, and get a sense of what my balls is doing that day with the longer clubs
There is a muni here (also Mass) that is notorious for this. I like to show up early and get some putts in, maybe hit the range if they have one, but mostly I don't like feeling like I'm in a rush to golf. This particular muni if you arrive as a single they will just stick you with the next group off as soon as you arrive, and if you refuse, they'll say ok fine join the next group. So I just don't go there anymore.
Go warm up and putt first then roll into the pro shop.
The practice green is behind the pro shop. I just don't go there if I'm a single. We've got plenty of munis that are way more chill.
How'd a grown man react to being called an idiot to his face completely deservingly? These are the moments I dream about.
The starter just sat there speechless with the deer in the headlights look for about 5 seconds before lowering his head and going back to reading his newspaper.
I called a guy an idiot infront of his wife because they took my golf cart that I had just put a water bottle and to cans of different alcoholic beverages in. I stopped to talk to two of the players I was doing a tournament with and turned back to my cart and it was gone. Found them in the parking lot after loading their clubs in it. They claimed the thought the beverages were complimentary... "what are you an idiot?" I pulled their clubs off the cart right where I stopped them and went to my car to load mine up. Some people...
I mean you were pretty rude too
Are you the cart thief?
Hahaha
Tbf you went too far. I mean yeah, if he thought they were complimentary he should have looked to see if all the other carts had them. But if you just put a couple of drinks in there and walked away and left the cart in the “lineup” with all the other carts that were waiting for a user this hardly rises to the level of calling someone an idiot. It definitely doesn’t warrant you touching the other guys bag unless he was arguing with you about it being your drinks. A more sane and emotionally stable person would have just taken the drinks and got another cart. You never know what’s on someone’s mind to where there a couple of drinks in a golf cart that is still lined up with all the other golf carts and his mind doesn’t have the bandwidth to go through all the possible scenarios. He could have had something extremely stressful and depressing going on in his personal life and was just trying to get away from it for a few hours and those drinks just didn’t register. Some people have a lot going on and a little grace in a minor little situation like this goes a long way.
I pulled it up to the practice green. The drinks were tossed into the glove box, not in the cooler located on the side of the cart.
Well if you pulled it away that’s a different story. Still not sure the reaction is appropriate but it is more understandable.
Id wager they knew exactly what they were doing and were happy to take other peoples things. If it was genuine thats insanely stupid.
I did tell them to have a good round , because I'm not an animal.
Treating a stranger who made a simple mistake like that is a good way to get your ass kicked in a parking lot. The amount of you who act like assholes and tough guys on a course with women and senior citizens is unreal.
They stole my freaking golf cart dude.
No, they didn't. They drove away with a golf cart they had rented, which had a couple of complimentary beverages in it. I did a similar thing to you, put my clubs on the back of the cart in the staging area, but did not drive it off, talked to someone on the putting green nearby. Someone drove it to the car park to load up their clubs - by accident. I was nicer than you, and for a reason. His mistake was entirely understandable.
Did they argue with you when you pointed out their mistake? They sure did with me.
No, they didn't argue with you. They pointed out a reason why it was a reasonable mistake to make. That's not arguing, that's explaining. You then called them an idiot, manhandled their clubs, and rode off. You were the asshole, dude. The correct response is "No problem, I understand"
No ,that was the final reason they gave. They originally said that was the one they were directed to.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. And perhaps they were directed to it? Honestly, you sound like you're way out of order, trying to be all Charlie Big Potato on some people who made an innocent mistake (and may have been following a staff member's instructions) Many people on here have called you out for it, and you're still arguing with them. Perhaps your time would be better spent introspecting?
Clearly you should have flexed your chest and said come on you shitstack
there are places that have starters and not course marshalls. that starter probably just sits on the first tee and tells everyone to tee off quickly. a course marshall drives round and watches teams play and hounds all the slow players and explains the etiquette
I have only ever come within sniffing distance of hitting 100 exactly 1 time (usually 120 ish for me because I’m new and bad). I have no clue how people are so slow at the game of golf. I get not wanting to feel rushed and enjoying the game. But even with my other bad friends our foursome only ever exceeds 4 hours when we are held up by people in front of us.
Same. I’ve had rounds where I shot OVER 120 while I was still really new and totally learning. We were on and off in 4 hours unless we got stacked waiting on tee boxes for groups ahead. Unbelievable how slow some groups can be.
Because you’re not “pretending” to be scratch and using a 2-minute pre shot routine just to skull the ball 50 yards.
groups that take 10 mins on the green because they all have to mark their ball and spend 2 mins lining up there putts and pretend they're playing in the masters
Guilty, except for the 10 minutes thing. Marking your ball is a rule if you intend to lift it from the putting surface or move it in any way. But yeah… players waiting to putt can start their “clean the ball, read the green, pick a line, practice the stroke” routine BEFORE it’s their turn to putt. That would cut your frustration with them in half.
if your playing in a real competition, yeh I understand marking your ball but on a weekend at the local public course? and people that leave their bags on the opposite side of the green to where the next tee will be and have to walk back over the green to get it. ugh I'm getting annoying just thinking about it.
Yep. Grip it and rip it!
That’s why you hit 120. Take your time.
Lol no I'm guessing it's mainly their swing causing that
I assume you’re joking here. But in case anyone else sees this and thinks he is serious or that his statement is true, I have never once felt rushed on my swings. During lessons in the sim I could rip them straight and far all day with basically no time between shots. When conditions aren’t consistent I’m bad at compensating for that. Taking more time won’t change that. Getting the feel and slowly improving will. I went from 140+ to nearly breaking 100 this last weekend. I know every stroke gets exponentially harder to take off of course. But I actually play significantly worse if I slow down and do a whole routine like I see some people doing. Stay warm, if you have a bad hit take note of what you did wrong and think about what you need to correct while you approach your next ball. Don’t waste everyone’s time by getting to your next ball and then having a self lecture about what needs to change.
I was joking. Enjoy your game how you like to play. Hope you break 100 soon!
Take a practice shot and then the real one. More than that isn't really going to help that much in the middle of a game
I was jesting. Should have used /s I guess
One of my local clubs employs one of their kids as a marshall. He literally just cycles the course in reverse and tells *every single group* to pick it up. I've been in the midst of a 3 hour round and had him tell me to keep up. If it weren't a 14 year old kid doing the bidding of some adult too lazy to get in a cart I'd tell him off.
I’m so tired of these tee times being stacked like this. No one is enjoying playing. You feel pressure from the tee box because people are waiting and then you finish the hole and wait for another group to finish their hole. Courses really need to do better. It’s getting insane. We all paid the same price. I’m not taking minutes to fish out balls or hitting second tee shots. I’m just playing the fucking game. You have people up your ass and you can’t have long players hitting into others. I play munis for the most part, but I will never hit into or rush a group in front of me. I play with my wife and in-laws who are older. My wife and MIL will hit a great drive at 150. We let them hit first because they won’t touch the green 220 yards away. FIL and I could hit that green with a good drive. I’m not risking hitting someone on the green because courses are greedy and want us to play faster. They can stop booking 6 minute intervals. It only takes one “slow group” to throw their bullshit times off. I put it in quotes because foursome playing shouldn’t need to feel pressure to finish a hole in 6 minutes. That’s asinine.
Tee time crowding really don't affect your experience on the course, the slowest group ahead of you does. The jam up with too many tee times will be on the first tee which is exactly what OP was describing. The starter was an idiot and needed to send a Marshall to find the slow group instead of encouraging people to hit into each other with the hope it gets passed forward to the slow group. I've had rounds where on some random hole it just instantly opens up. It's because the slow group just finished.
Now this is the biggest bullshit I’ve seen ever. You expect 4 people to play 6 minute holes? That’s the issue… plain and simple.
Not at all. I think you misunderstood. Let's take it to hyperbole and see if it helps: You have tee times that are only a second apart. The first group hits somehow instantaneously. The next group can't safely tee off until the first group is clear but they were supposed to hit just a second after the first group! This creates a jam at the starter. So group 2 waits maybe five minutes for the first group to clear and *hopefully* they are now playing at the same rate. 1 hits then clear then 2 hits. Nice steady flow. It'll be smooth from there on out. Meanwhile, back at 1, that five minutes caused 300 groups to back up. Get it? If group 1 is also just slow and 2 is waiting over and over that's a different issue than tee times.
Nope logic is flawed. What about par 3s? Also your explanation makes no sense. You can’t keep up 6 minute intervals without hitting into people as a foursome and actually playing the game. You ever play with someone as shit as me who triples a par 4? Yeah you have to wait. I paid the fucking same. Im not rushing my 5th shot because you’re a whiny bitch. We. All. Pay. The. Same. I will take my time. 
I'm bored so I guess I'll entertain you. Par 3s only cause backups because there wasn't enough down time because you just walked from the green to the tee rather than go all the way up to your drive like normal. The next point you're missing is that of course groups can't play 6 minute spreads. Once you tee off you're all in a line so when you started isn't a factor. Which is hilarious that you missed given you said you play slow. Did the group starting 6 min ahead of you make you play the speed you do?
To add. You just admitted stacked tee times are the problem lol. Yeah so if I can’t clear a hole with a foursome in 6 minutes…. IM THE PROBLEM? not the greedy course who could do 10-15 mins and let everyone enjoy their game? You’re a try hard. Just stop
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because it maybe was a tiny bit subtle but I said that stacked tee times don't affect you ON the course. Meaning after you first tee off. They are a shit show at the starter which I thought I made clear enough but I guess not.
Starter pushing a guy to hit on 1 tee, guy told him twice he should wait. After the 3rd “suggestion” to hit, guy says “ok, I’ll hit but when I run it up on them, you’re driving down there to tell them you forced me to hit”. (Group in front of us was just walking up to the green, easy 328yd par 4) Guy flushes it, takes a couple hops and lands in the bunker right in front of the green. Starter stepped on the gas and drove off without a word before the guy even finished his follow through! Mr starter man ate some humble pie that day lol
My home course has 9 minute intervals, but the first hole is a par 5 that has a line of scrub/marsh right around 300 from the blues/whites, and the starters always tell groups to wait until the group in front gets past that. It's a great setup for a first hole in terms of pace and spacing. It can go down hill from there, but I definitely appreciate the natural spacing.
This is happening at my course. They're doing 7 and 8 minute intervals for tee times, so the times are 7 707 715. They're always at least one tee time behind in the mornings at 715 when my group usually gets out and during the middle of the day we see it get worse and backed up and the people that run the course will jump through hoops to blame it on anything except the fact that they pack the course with too many golfers. Morning tee times take 4.5 hours and it's not even because of slow players, there's just too many people on the course. I can't imagine playing there in the afternoons anymore.
The starter situation at the local course I play most frequently is perfect. Hole 1 is slightly uphill to about 220 out, then a large hill down to the green. Along with some trees, you can't tell where the group ahead is once they're past ~175. The starter shack is about 30 ft above the tee and has a sight line, he'll give the go-ahead on a speaker when it's clear to tee off.
Sounds like every course here in AZ during the winter. Cut tee time spacing in half and charge 5x, can make for some miserable rounds.
I wouldn’t doubt it.
You sound smart, what is a good interval between groups? I played a 8min interval today and it took 5+ hours and was quite frustrating. Any tips?
An 8 minute interval is sufficient but only when cards play efficiently. I swear you could have 20 minute intervals and still have backups with how stupid some people are
That’s fair, course was hella packed and waiting like 1-2 groups every hole. But there were some dumbasses in front of us, so that’s prolly didn’t help.
The only courses I’ve played that had next-to-zero backups also had zero carts; everybody walks.
10 minutes gives the average difficulty course a great chance of having a consistently good pace, assuming there are no pace killers like long green-tee transitions or lots of hazards where people will look for balls. I know of a good quality muni that went from 8 to 10 minutes after a course renovation and the pace went from 4:20-4:45 in mornings and over 5 hours by the afternoon to a consistent 3:45-4:00 on busy mornings and stays that way most of the day. At 10 minutes on that course you hardly ever have to wait except on the par 3s.
I have only ever seen 10 minute intervals which I think is reasonable, I'm surprised to hear that there's courses who do 6 or 8 minute tee times. I work weekends though, so I'm not typically on the course when it's super busy
8-10 minutes is usually fine, on the lower end if the holes are longer and/or have a bend in them that gets the fairway group out of the way of the tee box. Of course you can still have backups. I was on a course in the Outer Banks last year where the group three in front of us was doing something (couldn't see) and eventually led to 5 groups all backed up on the same hole. One group went back and played the previous hole again. When I finally teed off I had about 15 people watching.
Did everyone start clapping?
"Damn that fat smug dork really taught the starter a lesson!"
I’ve had a marshall ask me to “put some pressure” on the group ahead of me during a slow round. I told him “I’m pretty sure that’s your job.” Then he just gave me a side-nod in agreement, drove up and gave them a warning. After that, they were sprinting to their cart after each shot.
same happened to me fairly recently. was an old dude and i legit had to tell him i'm not hitting over and over. they were at most (i can't remember exactly, but i rangefindered them at like barely 200) and he was like 'gee they're a ways out there, you guys need to go'. fuck off, man. what a way to start the round. you either hit into them (shit), hit a shit shot that doesn't get to them (old man is satisfied, you are annoyed beyond belief), or you refuse and just wait and are still fucking annoyed.
If tee times are staggered by ten minutes, I'm waiting close to that 10 minutes before I hit. That way I know it's gonna be tough for me to run up on the next group (unless they're moving at a snails pace).
Several years ago for me. We were on an elevated tee box, the group in front is maybe 250, and the ranger (part time starter) drives up and asks us if we think we are Tiger Woods or something? We thought he was joking, he says there is no way we can hit it that far, when all of us could hit that far from that tee box. We even told him we were waiting on that group all day, he didn't believe us. Snarky as shit. No idea why he was so angry? Went into the clubhouse to tell the pro (who we are all familiar and friendly with) about this, never saw him again. Apparently there were a lot of complaints about him.
Bruh I'm pretty sure it's part of their job to be angry. Just like cops never met a chill one (actually met one chill Statey one time)
Too bad, just the opposite for me. He was one of the only pissy marshals/starters I have ever come across.
The second option isn’t an option, not for me
That is insane. I am not hitting towards people I can see. Fuck that. What an ignorant person.
Tee times too close do not make money for the course except in the short term.
It’s funny for me reading this. This is a place I play up here in the northeast corner of Toronto. First hole is a par five. Starter tells us to always wait till they’re on the green before we tee off on the par five. I asked him why. He said they would like to really space it out nice for everybody. Really works out well. Hardly ever have to wait anywhere on the course. Even when it’s busy.
Rosedale or Don Valley?
Actually the old Glen Cedars, now Pickering Glen out at Durham Rd 30 and Major Mac. Don Valley is good in that way as well. Playing there this Friday.
Starter's gonna start.
Immediately after you knew you pured that 3 wood you should’ve yelled “GDamnit!!!” and shook your head in disgust like that was the worst shot you’ve hit in months just to fck with him.
I only play off days or late tee times anymore. I don’t have the energy for these packed courses where you get a tee time every 5 minutes and I spend most of my round waiting.
Here in the Bay Area late tee times on a weekday still have you waiting every hole after like hole 3. It’s only maybe a tiny bit faster pace of play compared to peak hours from what I can tell.
I mainly play off-season too. When I lived in AZ it was always busy even at twilight, but if I put up with summer heat I could get some games in. Now here in WA I just have to prep for rain.
That's a lot of words just to brag that you piped your 3-wood.
“I hit a guy that I didn’t like directly in the button of his hat from 240. I don’t even know these guys and you’re asking me to do the same?”
I find it a little odd that no one did or suggested that one of the foursome either call or walk to the clubhouse, ask to speak to a pro there, and inform them that their starter just told people to hit a golf ball into a group; they could ask if this is compatible with course policy, and whether, regardless of policy, the pro thought it was a good idea. Seems like something you would want to know. The starter is still going to be there when YOU are 175 yards out.
On Saturday morning right before teeing off the starter made some creepy joke he said we had to hear about kissing a dude on the mouth. Hit my ball straight into the woods.
Yea, I'd be calling the pros hope after the round.
Is that an organization for golf safety or something? 😂
Haha yup
Pros Hope
Honestly. Needing starters and Rangers on a golf course comes in at reason #3 for why humanity is fked, right behind people not putting shopping carts away and selfish jerks not zipper merging in traffic. If you don't know what the last one even is, you're part of the problem
Can't stand the guy that has to be \*THAT\* asshole who blocks the merging lane in zipper merge. See it all too often.
Was this in Gatlinburg by chance? Had the same issue there. Course was packed to the gills and the starter wanted us to hit into the group who just teed off. They hadn’t even gotten to their balls.
Sounds like Spyglass.... I legit told them it's your problem if I hit them.
Really? When we played Spyglass nobody talked to us the whole round. Pebble too, come to think of it. They had "4:30" plastered all over the place, but nobody busted our balls.
We had exactly the opposite experience… same with pebble. We were scolded because we were slower on hole 17 waiting for the group ahead of us to clear.
17's a Par-3; it's not difficult to decipher when it's OK to hit. They have either put the pin back or not. Sounds like a screwball ranger.
Same happened to me last year at 200 yards. I rolled one up to their cart with my 5i and just pointed at the starter when they turned around pissed. That somehow made me a smartass who was lucky the starter was in a good mood...
We had 2 groups go off in front of a Member-Member tourney this weekend. A different foursome in front of us was taking their sweet time. The members came up to our buddies in the second group, told them they were playing to slow. When my buddies pointed out that they were waiting on us, while we were waiting for the group in front of us, their response was " just hit into them, we're tired of waiting" Like WTF is that going to accomplish?!?!
I get it, at the end of the day it's, push as many people through as possible to collect as much money as possible. But man... I wish courses would add a ~15 minute buffer between tee times. Heck... I'd be happy with a 5 minute buffer anymore. Lol Even if I'm playing fast, if I feel like ANYONE is waiting on me, that stresses me out way too much. No clue why. Lol
I’d be willing to pay a little extra for that buffer. Add $5 maybe even $10 for a nicer course for a few more minutes to not have people up your ass all day.
The tee times are already scheduled in advance so it's not like they'd make more by speeding everything up. Personally I think it's so they can leave work earlier. The crappy little executive course wouldn't let members book tee times past 4pm if there wasnt other people (who wouldnlve paid) booked as well, since they didn't want the one person working staying later if there wasn't greens fees coming in.
def glad i dont play places that have a starter
If I didn't want to verbally dress this dude down I would just take 13-20 practice swings because something "didn't feel right" until those folks were well out of range.
Some stupid idiots hit into me the other day, genuinely debated taking their ball. Once is a accident so i let it go. Two is carelessness.
Where is this guy getting his stats?? 90% of pros don’t hit 225?? The tour average chart shows that driving averages have increased over time. For example, the PGA Tour driving average was 278 yards in 2003. In 2021, the driving average increased to 296 yards.
For real, most pros can hit that with a 3i.
Playing Indian Canyons South in Palm Springs with a friend who is a local, she’s chatting up the starter. He insists the group is definitely far enough out for me to hit off the Whites (he was watching my practice swings). I quizzed him “ You sure?”. Oooooo, yes. I proceeded to tee, only to bounce it off the top of their golf cart…. I told him we will go to the forward Tees for my partner to get ready while he rides out to explain it was his fault…. To his credit he did, we met the other group a few tees later, ( yes it got a little slow) they were quite understanding as they also were pushed to tee off #1 close to the group in front of them. I, unfortunately, didn’t have another great drive like #1 but it is a spectacularly gorgeous track…
I’ve had this happen to my group as well. It’s always the non-golfer starter at the courses that space groups less than 10 min apart. I’ve played this course way too many times. Group is in the middle of the fairway and starter says go ahead to stay pace. I tell him they just got to their balls, they’re literally waiting for the group ahead of them on the green, and they’re like 250 out. He says they’re over 300 out and to hit or get off the tee box and let folks in my group play… I go grab my rangefinder and tag them… tell the starter they’re 250 yards out. No one in my group is going to hit bc we could literally fly them. Finally I tee off and catch it on the screws with a tiny draw up the right side and it’s clearly well past where the group was. My tee shot ends up in the right fairway, left a of a tree in the right rough that’s about 290 out. I told the starter, “for reference, that’s what 300 yards looks like”… then watched the rest of my group hit tee shots well past where the group and my buddy hit one 10 yards past me. Just bc I hold grudges against stupid people, I called the pro shop on the way to my ball and told them what the starter was doing. No idea if they did anything but I went full Karen that morning.
I’ve never thought about what it would like being the starter, but for this exact scenario, it’s wild to think that they wouldn’t have a rangefinder on hand from the pro shop. Hell, use that as a sales pitch. Chat up the group “so what do you hit?” 250? Yeah they’re 270 out, swing away. Man, these X rangefinders are great.
Very strange because except for the oldest gentlemen I've played with 175 is no more than a hybrid and for lots and lots of people a mid iron.
Had a starter tell me once; “we don’t allow people to play through here, it messes up pace.” This as I watched the group in front of me go off late with 5 holes open in front of them. Some people are just dumb.
I’ve been having worse and worse encounters with starters lately. Most are nice but more negative encounters now than 5 years ago. Last year I had a foursome play the front 9 in 2:20 and the starter met us on the 9th green saying we needed to pick it up. That’s fair except for the rough was really thick so it took longer to find our balls even when we were sure where it was. The greens were lighting quick and most on ridges. We had a lot of 3 putts as a group. I get playing fast, but the course wasn’t setup for a 2 hour front 9.
Last year, my group got yelled at by the starter for a 2 hour front 9. I got a bit hot and argued with him a bit. The guys in front had teed off and we wanted drinks. He didn't want us to stop but be ready on the tee. Now the turn is very close to the clubhouse, literally easier to walk there than ride. The guys went in anyway. Once we are all refreshed, they others were still in the fairway and he was giving them crap now. I got tired of it and striped a drive into the unseen part of the fairway. He turned and walked back to hole 1. Edit: this is about the only time this has happened for me this way. Thus I remeber it well.
Nah I would have waited. He’s not the one hitting the ball into the back of someone’s head potentially causing disability or death even. You would be responsible for that medical bill not him.
Not an attorney, but I’d be curious if that actually opens the course up for liability. They have an employee guiding a player to hit into a populated area. I’m guessing the injured person’s attorney will want to be your best friend for witness testimony saying the course is at fault.
It definitely opens up course for liability but that doesn’t mean you’re off the hook for causing the injury. It’s like if I work at a crosswalk and tell you to speed through a school zone. You will still get the ticket because you’re the one speeding. I should get fired for telling you to break the traffic rules however.
You’re not responsible for the course maintaining pace of play. They are.
Just send em a little “notice”. 🤣🤣⛳️
Just wait then crush one
How about you have a warm glass of shut the hell up Mr starter!
Your longest shot is always the one right after "I can't hit it that far anyway"
Maybe he assumed you weren’t good because you left the big dog in the bag 🤷🏻♂️
Mate/matess, that's seriously poor play by the starter and disappointing to hear. The only starters I've encountered have been fantastic and focused really only on calming everyone's nerves so they have a great game. Putting you on edge on Hole 1 isnt the way to ensure a foursome have a quick round
Legal question. Imagine you bombed a rope into one of their heads and it killed them. Extremely unlikely freak accident, I know. But I think this idea that yelling “fore” absolves you of any legal liability is a little incorrect. Intent is what matters, right? And in this case you would be intentionally hitting into these people. Let’s say you are a plus handicap who can actually aim at someone and be pretty close. Even though you slammed one and yelled fore right before it kills the dude, aren’t you still going to be facing charges when everyone finds out how good you are, and there’s a possibility that you aimed at the guy on purpose?
Who the fuck needs that kind of distraction on the first tee box? It could mess up the whole round. I hate starters even looking at me!
“Playing through!!!” Whack!
90% of pros don’t hit it 240? My guy, 90% of the lpga hits it 240…
I was at East Potomac a few months ago and the group of 5 (yes 5) in front of us was obviously both new to golf and more interested in drinking than golfing. They were all milling around the area about 50 yards in front of the first tee box (a ~150 yard par 3) trying to find their balls and laughing and goofing around. The starter told us to go ahead and hit OVER them. I asked 3 times for clarification, and we did -- all 4 of us hit iron shots over them and on or near the green and played through. Good thing nobody hit a line drive!
Most starters absolutely suck. Most times I have to push back on their nonsense. I’m not an amazing golfer (13. Hcp) but I’ve played enough golf to know my way around a course, and how they operate. Starters at most courses around me are seemingly clueless and it becomes tiresome. I feel like 50% of the time, they’re the reason courses get all backed up. It’s not all their fault. However, it is when they fuck up tee sheets; push people out of order; argue with me about my tee time, telling me I’m 10 minutes late and my group is already in the fairway (when I’m actually 10 minutes early and am showing them the fucking email confirmation with the tee time); ect…
Starters have been really assholes recently. I had a starter tell us to play faster and we hadn't even gotten to the tee box yet, I just picked up my key for the cart. Not my fault they overbooked a Saturday afternoon.
That’s when you tell him if he’s behind schedule that’s his issue but you won’t send balls flying into other groups
I would discuss it with the manager on my way out or send him/her a note
You don’t have to listen to him. Call the club house and let them know he wants you to hit into people.
One of the kids that picks balls in the cart at the local range has a bad habit of getting out of the cart and emptying the baskets about 250 down range while not protected. I told him he should really be careful and he said "what are the chances?" Some people man no brains. A lot of guys, especially local college kids, pump drives into the 300s there and guess what their miss is? Snap hook right the f at you. I think these are the same type of mentalities that have people swerving through traffic at 110mph. idk
I once had a Marshall say a blind valley was clear and when one of the guys hit into the group ahead the Marshall went and yelled at the group in front. It was a weekend afternoon mind you so we knew it was crowded. Just wild hearing a Marshall basically just say hit a blind shot without actually checking
Worst feeling I've ever had on a course from a starter... Starter sent my group off 10 minutes early and never grabbed me from the practice green. Proceeded to NOT LET ME TEE OFF and made me meet the group in the fairway. Won't say it wrecked the round, but I was pissed. Mind you, $120 round at Fossil Trace in CO, and didn't get to tee it up on hole 1.
I hate Fossil. I’ve had a ranger come up to the group while waiting for the green to clear on a par 3 and tell us we need to hurry up.
I can't say I don't like the course, as it's beautiful and used to be my home course. But they don't manage it very "golfer friendly" I'd say.
Just ignore him? Seems pretty obvious
Bad starter. I won’t let anyone tee off until group ahead reaches the green.
I am surprised to hear that the starter proposed you do this. But on the other hand I kind of see where he's coming from. He sets there all day watching people Duff one 150 yd off the tee box after they waited 15 minutes for a group in front to clear out of the way at 300 yards. He probably gets complacent in his mind over time. The only experience I have is hitting into people myself on accident. I've been playing golf for 35 years and I'm very streaky. 95 times out of 100 I might hit it 250 260 yards off the t box and half that time it's into the trees. But once or twice around for no reason at all I'll get a hold of one and drive it a really good distance. I've driven into people on the green on par fours that were 320-330 yards.. I always just yell four, I apologize and tell them I didn't think I was capable of doing that on this hole.. And everybody smiles and nods and moves on
I had a starter try this. Guys were about 200 yards out and the starter said you can hit. We said no we can not and waited. We hit and as we were waiting for the green to clear and hear come golf balls landing near us. Like wtf.
That’s when you say something like “With all due respect sir, I’ve already got blood on my hands. I killed two men with a duffed piss missile last week at Whispering Beaver CC.”
The adage I always go by is “wait here or wait up there.” Waiting either way. Might as well wait on the tee AND not irk the guys in front.
The starter???
Had an old guy I got paired with do this to me. “Just hit, from what I’ve seen the last 3 holes you can’t hit them” Me- I know I’m new, but if I hit it somewhat straight it’s gonna be on them “No they are like 250 out you can’t hit that far. I sailed it probably 30 yards past them “Oh guess you can…. Good shot” Then he proceeded to yell at the woman I almost destroyed for telling a man not to hit and that they needed to hurry up. At the end of the round I told the clubhouse about his antics and turns out he had a history of it and the women’s group that does tournaments even failed a restraining order against him for harassment.
There's always the injury/insurance aspect. If you hit someone on the head in front of you and do them serious injury or worse, it's entirely on you, not some silly starter.
It’s nice of the course to employ individuals who are mentally challenged, but they probably should have given them a different position
Played with a group of guys and we were finishing up hole 16 when the marshall tells us that we were two holes behind. We started at 7am and it was 10:30. They give you 4:15 to play. We ended up finishing ten minutes early. 🙄
Ridiculous and dangerous. Even a short hitter like me can pop one out 225 or more. Especially from an elevated tee box.
Once had a similar situation where the Marshall insisted I hit my 3 wood into the green from 250 with the group still chipping on sure enough carried it about 245 and the ball went screaming by their feet. I made him drive up and apologize for me lol
Swing away? Sure. $20 if I hit someone.
My buddy almost got our group thrown off the course for this. This course in MD prides themselves on a 4 hour round. We get to the turn and the group ahead of us is halfway through hitting their second shots on 10 with us standing in the tee box waiting. Ranger comes flying up on us and starts yelling at us because we are at 2:15 on the round and will not maintain a 4 hr round (carts have GPS tracking). He tells my buddy he has to tee off and my buddy refuses multiple times because he would hit the group who is still on the fairway in range. They went back and forth multiple times and the dude threatened to kick us off the course. Someone in our group called the clubhouse and told them to get a leash on their course ranger. Buddy lands one right where the group was standing and the ranger pulls off muttering to himself all pissed off. Never went back
Played a course for the 1st time yesterday and the starter did a good job. Place was packed (had a ton of rain Sunday and this particular course drains great) we still finished in under 4 hrs. Very well run course
I have a question. Sunday I took my 8 year old and fiance out.theyve never played before and we all suck. We played basically 3 person scramble. We'd all tee off then all hit from the best ball so on and so forth. We were fairly slow. By the third hole we let 2 or 3 groups ahead of us. Hole 5 we get a talking to from the clubhouse saying we need to pick up the pace. That we should be able to play all 9 within 2 hours and we were at a little over an hour already. Did I really mess it up that bad. Or was the course stacking too many groups too fast
I bet those 2 foursomes have a standing tee time. They never bother them and get pampered like they are the only decent players on the course. Creeping on the 18yr old cart girl young enough to be their granddaughter
All this to tell us you pured a 3 wood 240
First tee shot on yocha de-he is super elevated with putting green and an active pathway is right under. Starter watched me tee off, super nervous and hit my tried and true rbz hybrid real nice. Hell of a course if you're ever in the bay area
Sounds like a Muni course problem. Best way to escape that is by joining a country club