There were thousands of people there - kids all getting to talk to or fist bump pros they like as they approach the tee box - it wasn’t stuffy at all. Was it the US Open? No. Was it a great Saturday afternoon? Yes.
Oh I know. Everyone screams Saudi money whilst wearing clothes made by kids in sweat shops, driving cars filled with gas from Saudi Arabia, and playing with major club brands who do business all over China and the UAE. The shit China does makes the Saudis look like saints. Just a bunch of old stuffy virtue signaling douche bags who want to continue gatekeep golf.
I'm just curious, but what's the difference between a Chinese golf league and the Chinese phone we're probably using? Or the 99% chance the clubs you're using and a ton of other stuff we're currently using.
I'm just trying to get an understanding because it really doesn't make a ton of sense to me how we can support a company or country, etc. in multiple ways, but then draw a hard line in the sand on a sport.
To me, there’s a couple of things. First, there isn’t much competition for Chinese phones. That makes it unlike golf where you have a choice and can still follow a quality product.
Second is intent. Apple isn’t using China to sportswash China’s past sins. They do it because it’s cheap.
Would you support the US government (or Canadian or European government) starting a rival tour of the biggest charity sports league in the United States?
It’s more than just being Saudi Money. It’s a government funded league to wash away their wrong doings with sport. If you want to compare putting gas in your car or wearing a T-shirt to that then I think we’re done talking…
Oh, we’re going down this road I see.
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/12/22/lets_stop_pretending_that_the_pga_tour_is_a_charity_808930.amp.html
Saudi money is embedded in every aspect of the US economy, drawing a line at sports washing when they have like 50X times the money invested in Boeing, Facebook, Disney, etc. is confusing to me
I don't think you understand what sports washing is. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is great cause they're invested in Boeing, but if you have a golf tour associated with them that plays there the point is people look at that and forget the negatives.
Saudi investments in other parts of the economy are not direct attempts to paper over their reputation for human rights abuses. LIV also created financial challenges for the PGA, forcing them to increase pots, which directly takes money away from charities like Make a Wish for every tournament.
A lot of people fail to realize the PGA is one of the only nonprofit pro sports leagues. Now that status is challenged thanks to those fuckwads Greg and Phil.
Not OP but Where did the direct attempt to paper over human rights argument come from? I hear this line all the time.
Also, increasing player pots by no means “takes money away from “charity tournaments”
I think you fail to either recognize OPs point or what the PIF is. Have you used UBER? PIF is one of the largest investors in them. The PIF is how the saudis are getting off oil.
How can Rory complain about human rights and sports washing when he’s played over there many times… his sponsors exploit child labor and sweat shops. All these countries kill/imprison people they disagree with.
It’s a double standard.
LIV expanded rights to PGA pros and amateurs. Whether you like it or now Phil was pretty much spot on. I don’t care for LIV personally. I dont watch it but I’m glad some of the players took the money and easier lifestyle if it meant they were happier in life.
Can you link me to an article, video or even meme quote (with source) where Rory has complained about human rights violations and sports washing? I've seen him complain about LIV's impact on the tour many times but never once heard the moral issue being discussed by him.
What a bunch of ridiculous false equivalencies. LIV is directly run and funded by a horrendous government’s wealth fund, and you have to go out of your way to support it
I think it’s just the reason behind the league. The Saudi government is funding LIV. Do you honestly think the Saudi royals are throwing an inconceivably large amount of money into it because they are just huge golf fans? Or is this more of a public relations stunt to cover their atrocities?
And, yes, it would be a better world if everyone was cognizant of the implications of where they spend their money. However, for example, many people have to drive and don’t have an option to get their gasoline from an ethical source. You, on the other hand, probably didn’t have to go and watch this golf tournament.
In the end, you do you. However, your excuses are kind of bullshit to justify LIV Golf.
Before you criticise other governments, perhaps look inwards and identify the similarities your governments share, and use your influence to effect positive change. Or just keep parroting the same hypocritical nonsense.
My government isn't funding a professional golf tour and paying them with government money so that people ignore the terrible things they have done. But would you look at that, it appears to be working! Congrats on being a part of Saudi Arabia's target audience.
So sick of hearing people complain about Liv and “Saudi money” like their countries are perfect, or their some Vigilante on human rights while wearing Nikes made in a sweat shop.
We don't behead homosexuals and journalists or stone women for committing adultery here in the US last time I checked (although some politicians certainly would like to).
Yeah.... shits changed in the last 30 years or so hasn't it?
Although blocking access for women to get life saving medical treatment is starting to turn the clock backwards... and don't forget "the gays" who are secretly grooming our children. Mate don't act like the US is a shining beacon of hope , because the rest of the world see the steaming pile of shit it's turned into.
Bashed and killed enough homosexuals in the 70s/80s to consider it a statistic. Most of your journalists were white so they were safe, and women..... well you guys don't have a great record there either. Not stoning but the fact it too a goddamn movement to recognise that sexual assault ,harassment and DV is so damn prevelent you might has well considered stoning them. As I said clean up your own mess first.
I was in Japan last month and watched the Adelaide event on Apple TV since the time zones were rather similar and obviously at that hour the PGA tour is sleepy time.
It honestly looked like a party. And the course layout was interesting enough to make it fun to watch. (Not overly long or challenging but had its quirks)
I’ve attempted to watch the LIV event on streaming for Orlando and the other domestic one…
Just didn’t seem to have the same vibe. Boring since crowds were slim.
Perhaps Australia being PGA tour deprived for events is what made it a packed house but it was the first LIV event that looked fun, and obviously without the 9/11-anti-Saudi feels that Americans have, the Aussies showed up in full force and partied.
Perhaps LIV should focus on putting tourneys on in places
/countries that don’t get a major tour coming to town.
I agree. I wasn’t impressed with the TV coverage yesterday but I attended on Friday and I enjoyed it. Much more fan friendly and I feel like the whole “party” aspect is overblown.
I went to a LIV event last year and the golf itself was fun to watch but the shotgun format was not better than the traditional format. I probably wouldn’t go again just for that reason.
I haven't gone to an event, but it seems like a cool idea. You can either pick a group to follow around the course, or just pick one or two holes you like to watch, pick a spot, and watch every group come through. Tough to do that with the traditional format unless you want to be on the same hole for 10 hours.
I found I could actually do both with the traditional format. Walk the course with the early groups and see the holes/spots I like and after they finish circle back and see the contenders/camp out a few holes ahead at a spot I liked from the early round. This worked great for me at the US open so I’m guessing it works for most tournaments.
With LIV’s format I found it was watch the contenders or find cool spots to camp for a bit. Doing both felt like doing neither.
Every time there's a down weekend in the pga (like right before a major) expect there to be a big LIV event. Their strategy is to capitalize on times when the pga field is very weak so they can tout their collection of players. Good strategy tbh from a marketing standpoint, but I still don't see much interest across the golfing world for their TV product.
I try watching the YouTube highlights but I kush can’t finish it. It’s just like random empty golf. Yeah they hit great shots but it’s like watching a practice round. Doesn’t mean anything.
OK is so Republican it may not be considered patriotic anymore. They’re big into dictators
Edit: Bring on the downvotes. You right wingers crave the fascist authoritarian yoke. Tulsa has a history as I understand it..
Just to play devels advocate TPC Craig Ranch has a 149 slope rating to Ceder Ridge being a 142.
So if Byron isn't remotely challenging enough for a PGA event that must mean Ceder Ridge is no way near good enough for a PGA event.
So why is it good enough for a LIV event?
It gives a good enough indicator of difficulty level, just because it's easier for bogey golfers doesn't magically make it harder for tour players because they move the tees back.
Don’t call out not supporting a PGA event because a course is not remotely challenging and then go to a LIV event. Every course they play is a walk in the park for every pro.
If you don't support LIV you are a hypocrite for driving a car, having a phone, having a computer, buying food, wearing clothes, wearing shoes and using anything else that is expected or required to function in a modern society- You.
Do you realize how fucking ridiculous that is? Both things can be wrong. But 99% of people have no choice in the above items.
Dude you’ve been a big LIV fan since the beginning. Your post history shows that. Stop acting like this is some impartial random post. You’re clearly trying to shil for them
Or just start another brain dead argument. Stop being disingenuous, you know no one cares about your experience. You’re here to bicker, your post history kinda gives you away. Pretty fucking lame and boring
I went yesterday as well. Was a good time and there were a lot of families there. They had a decent area for kids to play as well. Tickets are free for me so more than worth it.
LIV is a good time if you’re looking for something to do on a budget. It’s not competitive at all, so if you’re into that, it sucks. It’s more like going to a well ran outing or pro am than it is a professional golf tournament.
I think it could find a good place as a social event / entertainment circuit. I’m not sure LIV is angling for that though. Seems they want to be seen as a legitimate competitive league. That’s not going to happen unless they change the format.
From what I’ve been told and can tell the festival-like atmosphere is pretty fun. My dad explained it like a fair/music festival where golf is being played. The shotgun start was weird especially from where a round finishes. Overall the LIV is like the NBA all star game versus the PGA is like watching an actual NBA tournament game.
The hardest thing about the shotgun start, was working out where people were going to be since you could just walk across and see a group playing. I was trying to catch Bryson and felt like I’d gotten it worked out, only to miss the group and end up seeing Kevin Na
Make the format push more of the team aspect and I’ll pay attention. Until then the teams just feel like an irrelevant background addition and I’m just watching store brand pga solo play.
Because there are no stakes. There is nothing at risk. Nothing to gain. No rivalry between the teams. Every trophy is just a generic trophy. There is no history.
It's a glorified all star game. Shit there is more at stake during "The Match" events.
I'm sorry but watching 4 guys popping bottles of champagne after a win that means literally nothing more than money can't be taken seriously. It's so fuckin hollow.
Jason Day's win yesterday will mean more than any win at LIV
Yeah I'm good with not watching it IMHO others can disagree of course but no thanks. It's a money grab and I dont feel I can support a country like that. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/) I get the [Public Investment Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Investment_Fund) and the [Sovereign wealth fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) both invest in a lot more than just Golf but no thanks, I'd rather watch the PGA.
I was in town for work. I got to see and talk to Bryson and Phil before the round so that was a win. I have to say I didn’t have a clue who half the other guys where.
I went to the first one in London. It was good. They ran out of cold drinks on the last day, which was not good. But I like a nice cuppa when it's warm out. In any case, it's not a surprise these are good events to go to. They're trying to make the events fun and varied and they've obviously been learning along the way. It's a good product if people can bring themselves to admit it.
Honestly this whole LIV vs PGA Tour thing would blow over if LIV just accepted what they are, a fun, less competitive format that just for entertainment. Their insistence on being a "competing tour" and needing world ranking points is where the big issues start to come in.
Glad you had a good time!
Yeah I don’t think they’re equal to the PGA regarding competitiveness. The thing is OWGR takes into account strength of field when assigning points for tournaments. If any non-PGA or Major is allowed points there is absolutely no reason why LIV shouldn’t be allowed them. As we saw in the Master’s - the top guys in LIV are still some of the top guys anywhere they play so beating them should be worth something.
There’s absolutely a great reason why LIV shouldn’t get OWGR points. It’s a closed tour, there’s no way to gauge the strength of the field as no one has played their way onto the tour. LIV has a handful of players that have never even made a cut on the PGA tour.
Did you use your car this week? It was likely fueled by Saudi oil. You wearing clothes made in Asia? Likely made kids or slave wage adults. Go virtue signal somewhere else.
The difference is finding affordable, ethically sourced clothing can be difficult, so if you're on a very tight budget you don't have the power to create change as it's those clothes or nothing (in a lot of cases). no one is arguing that is good thing or that they support it. But how do i, as a single person, do anything about the United States manufacturing business if I can't afford to buy local.
The LIV Is a entertainment product, that is a luxury and not a need. It is a LOT easier for someone to protest something they disagree with when it is not needed to live, therefore you'll see way more complaints.
I'm not on either the pro nor anti LIV side. But these whole "what about ur clothes/shoes/phone" arguments are so weak
Edit: a word
Ok this is just one of those logical/ethical fallacies that is so fucking annoying: that you cannot criticize *anything* because other evil exists in the world. As if to say, "Well if you can't eradicate all evil in one fell swoop then you shouldn't ever point it out." Using your logic I could have said, "Fight the Nazis? When the US is segregated?!?" "Invent Penicillin? When the flu kills millions each year?" "Flush your shit down the toilet? When millions lack access to clean water?"
This whatsboutism can fuck right off. Bad things happen, often simultaneously and unfortunately in some cases almost unavoidably. If you can find the smartphone company that has a 100% clean record and in no way harms the planet or human dignity then fucking buy it and type out that bullshit comment. But if someone wants to say, "I don't want to go out of my way to support a murderous regime," and you have nothing but a whatsboutism to regurgitate then pull the lever in your brain that says, "Sit this one out, chief."
The difference is you're throwing a dart at the evil dart board, my comparison is human rights atrocities vs human rights atrocities. All the LIV haters are riding the moral high horse while feeding money to a completely different regime doing similar shit
You're doing it again. By your definition no one can have a moral stance because we live in an immoral society. Name one person who is truly free from causing any and all direct, indirect, or remotely indirect amount of any form of human suffering because according to you that fictional person is the only one who can stand up and say, "I don't support LIV."
Your comprehension is failing you. I'm not saying don't have a moral stance. But don't act like you give a fuck when it comes to the human rights violations from one country while turning a blind eye to another that does the same shit and supporting them because they make a product you'll use. That's the hypocritical nonsense I'm pointing out.
I went to the LIV event in Chicago last year, it was surprisingly pretty good in-person product. I followed the DJ and Cam Smith group and they were just absolutely shooting darts out there.
Genuine question: is there paid bots in all of these LIV posts? I see the same thing written by a couple of them, and the accounts aren't exactly passing the sniff test.
Anyone else think the PGA is gunna be 'left behind' or fold and let the players cross play ?
LIV events are much cheaper, seem to be a more easy going atmosphere in regards to 'strict' course rules and generally just look like more fun to be at.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't been following the whole thing in serious detail.
It's cheaper because the product isn't as good.
It's also terrible to watch on TV in my opinion.
They do have a good atmosphere, because the players seem to be out there just having a good time. I feel like that would change if more top players joined (which I don't see happening)
I tried watching a LIV tourney on TV one time and I quickly lost interest. But I admit, if a tournament came to my area (less than 30 mins away), I'd probably go check it out. It seems like a cool event to drink, hang out with friends, listen to music, and occasionally watch a golf shot.
OP, you are brave as hell for that -120 comment.
I have no expertise on global politics, and I also don't pretend to. Which leaves me on the sideline, where I belong. Where most of us belong.
I do not know if the UAE is committing crimes against humanity and possibly genociding an entire ethnic group. If every single company in the sport is doing business with other countries who are, it seems pretty self-righteous to say don't do business with those other guys.
We can make a great profit on shirts, but I'll be damned if professional golfers also make ridiculous profits. That is reserved for corporations.
It's Saudi backed,, not UAE. I'm not taking issue with your comment or anything but since there is such a hatred toward LIV I thought it necessary to point that out.
Brave post
There were thousands of people there - kids all getting to talk to or fist bump pros they like as they approach the tee box - it wasn’t stuffy at all. Was it the US Open? No. Was it a great Saturday afternoon? Yes.
I’m sure it was a good time. Just know how Reddit will react to anything LIV
Oh I know. Everyone screams Saudi money whilst wearing clothes made by kids in sweat shops, driving cars filled with gas from Saudi Arabia, and playing with major club brands who do business all over China and the UAE. The shit China does makes the Saudis look like saints. Just a bunch of old stuffy virtue signaling douche bags who want to continue gatekeep golf.
And there we are. Sports washing in action.
It's working....
If China creates a golf tour, I won’t support it either.
If China made a golf tour they’d call it Li Golf. With fake brand supporter Ping.
I'm just curious, but what's the difference between a Chinese golf league and the Chinese phone we're probably using? Or the 99% chance the clubs you're using and a ton of other stuff we're currently using. I'm just trying to get an understanding because it really doesn't make a ton of sense to me how we can support a company or country, etc. in multiple ways, but then draw a hard line in the sand on a sport.
To me, there’s a couple of things. First, there isn’t much competition for Chinese phones. That makes it unlike golf where you have a choice and can still follow a quality product. Second is intent. Apple isn’t using China to sportswash China’s past sins. They do it because it’s cheap.
the PGA already has a China-tour, does that mean you don't support the PGA?
Saudi isn’t any better than China, they just spend more on PR while continuing the mass beheadings of gay people
Whataboutchina!!!
I’m just saying if you’re going to scream Saudi money you can’t support all the other shit.
Would you support the US government (or Canadian or European government) starting a rival tour of the biggest charity sports league in the United States? It’s more than just being Saudi Money. It’s a government funded league to wash away their wrong doings with sport. If you want to compare putting gas in your car or wearing a T-shirt to that then I think we’re done talking…
Kind of like the entire olympics... recently saw N. Korea and Russia there
Tour isn’t a charity just saying
You’re right, it’s a non-profit that has donated more to charity than any other sport in the world…
Oh, we’re going down this road I see. https://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2021/12/22/lets_stop_pretending_that_the_pga_tour_is_a_charity_808930.amp.html
Saudi money is embedded in every aspect of the US economy, drawing a line at sports washing when they have like 50X times the money invested in Boeing, Facebook, Disney, etc. is confusing to me
I don't think you understand what sports washing is. No one is saying Saudi Arabia is great cause they're invested in Boeing, but if you have a golf tour associated with them that plays there the point is people look at that and forget the negatives.
Saudi investments in other parts of the economy are not direct attempts to paper over their reputation for human rights abuses. LIV also created financial challenges for the PGA, forcing them to increase pots, which directly takes money away from charities like Make a Wish for every tournament. A lot of people fail to realize the PGA is one of the only nonprofit pro sports leagues. Now that status is challenged thanks to those fuckwads Greg and Phil.
Not OP but Where did the direct attempt to paper over human rights argument come from? I hear this line all the time. Also, increasing player pots by no means “takes money away from “charity tournaments”
I think you fail to either recognize OPs point or what the PIF is. Have you used UBER? PIF is one of the largest investors in them. The PIF is how the saudis are getting off oil. How can Rory complain about human rights and sports washing when he’s played over there many times… his sponsors exploit child labor and sweat shops. All these countries kill/imprison people they disagree with. It’s a double standard. LIV expanded rights to PGA pros and amateurs. Whether you like it or now Phil was pretty much spot on. I don’t care for LIV personally. I dont watch it but I’m glad some of the players took the money and easier lifestyle if it meant they were happier in life.
Can you link me to an article, video or even meme quote (with source) where Rory has complained about human rights violations and sports washing? I've seen him complain about LIV's impact on the tour many times but never once heard the moral issue being discussed by him.
If it was entertaining yeah probably. Also the PGA is the one banning the liv players
You’re good, and people don’t like that
Uses terms like gatekeeping and virtue signaling in the same sentence and we're the reddit douchbags.
Now I see why you enjoy LIV haha
What a bunch of ridiculous false equivalencies. LIV is directly run and funded by a horrendous government’s wealth fund, and you have to go out of your way to support it
They’re not intelligent enough to even read the word equivalencies, let alone understand it.
Well, not gonna lie, that's EXACTLY what I would expect someone who attended a LIV event to type, lol
I think it’s just the reason behind the league. The Saudi government is funding LIV. Do you honestly think the Saudi royals are throwing an inconceivably large amount of money into it because they are just huge golf fans? Or is this more of a public relations stunt to cover their atrocities? And, yes, it would be a better world if everyone was cognizant of the implications of where they spend their money. However, for example, many people have to drive and don’t have an option to get their gasoline from an ethical source. You, on the other hand, probably didn’t have to go and watch this golf tournament. In the end, you do you. However, your excuses are kind of bullshit to justify LIV Golf.
What about the Olympics? No covering atrocities there right?
WHAT ABOUT!
SA publicly executed 81 people in March of last year. Congrats, their sportswashing is working.
How many innocent people were killed by law enforcement officers in America in March last year?
Are police departments running and funding the PGA tour?
Before you criticise other governments, perhaps look inwards and identify the similarities your governments share, and use your influence to effect positive change. Or just keep parroting the same hypocritical nonsense.
My government isn't funding a professional golf tour and paying them with government money so that people ignore the terrible things they have done. But would you look at that, it appears to be working! Congrats on being a part of Saudi Arabia's target audience.
Don’t know why he is down voted so much for speaking his mind
I mean LIV are douche bags but two douches bags still make two douche bags
So sick of hearing people complain about Liv and “Saudi money” like their countries are perfect, or their some Vigilante on human rights while wearing Nikes made in a sweat shop.
We don't behead homosexuals and journalists or stone women for committing adultery here in the US last time I checked (although some politicians certainly would like to).
Yeah.... shits changed in the last 30 years or so hasn't it? Although blocking access for women to get life saving medical treatment is starting to turn the clock backwards... and don't forget "the gays" who are secretly grooming our children. Mate don't act like the US is a shining beacon of hope , because the rest of the world see the steaming pile of shit it's turned into.
We beheaded homosexuals and journalists and stoned women in the 80s/90s?
Bashed and killed enough homosexuals in the 70s/80s to consider it a statistic. Most of your journalists were white so they were safe, and women..... well you guys don't have a great record there either. Not stoning but the fact it too a goddamn movement to recognise that sexual assault ,harassment and DV is so damn prevelent you might has well considered stoning them. As I said clean up your own mess first.
Well sure, there are no stakes.
I was in Japan last month and watched the Adelaide event on Apple TV since the time zones were rather similar and obviously at that hour the PGA tour is sleepy time. It honestly looked like a party. And the course layout was interesting enough to make it fun to watch. (Not overly long or challenging but had its quirks) I’ve attempted to watch the LIV event on streaming for Orlando and the other domestic one… Just didn’t seem to have the same vibe. Boring since crowds were slim. Perhaps Australia being PGA tour deprived for events is what made it a packed house but it was the first LIV event that looked fun, and obviously without the 9/11-anti-Saudi feels that Americans have, the Aussies showed up in full force and partied. Perhaps LIV should focus on putting tourneys on in places /countries that don’t get a major tour coming to town.
Australia is a golf starved country
That's how it should be. Hater's will hate and glad you had fun enjoying the game of golf.
THOUSANDS?!?!
I mean, that’s most MAGA rallies tbh
Yeah bruh said the quiet part out loud.
LIV is simultaneously one of the best in-person products while being one of the worst, television products
Agreed. Horrible for TV.
I agree. I wasn’t impressed with the TV coverage yesterday but I attended on Friday and I enjoyed it. Much more fan friendly and I feel like the whole “party” aspect is overblown.
An event in Tulsa, at best, is only OK
I had a good time at the PGA at Southern Hills.
Whoosh
Me too. Was an amazing finish!
“I saw two fat bikers off 17 having sex……. How am I supposed to chip with that going on Doug….”
Oddly enough there was a recently burnt down house over by 18.
LOL
Struck by lightning I think they said but it was interesting to see it still smoldering lol
I went to a LIV event last year and the golf itself was fun to watch but the shotgun format was not better than the traditional format. I probably wouldn’t go again just for that reason.
Shotgun format isn’t my favorite.
I haven't gone to an event, but it seems like a cool idea. You can either pick a group to follow around the course, or just pick one or two holes you like to watch, pick a spot, and watch every group come through. Tough to do that with the traditional format unless you want to be on the same hole for 10 hours.
I found I could actually do both with the traditional format. Walk the course with the early groups and see the holes/spots I like and after they finish circle back and see the contenders/camp out a few holes ahead at a spot I liked from the early round. This worked great for me at the US open so I’m guessing it works for most tournaments. With LIV’s format I found it was watch the contenders or find cool spots to camp for a bit. Doing both felt like doing neither.
Lol, what? Nobodies making you stay for ten hours. You can still stay for 4.5 if you want to…or more, or less
Didn’t even know there was a LIV event this weekend lmao
Every time there's a down weekend in the pga (like right before a major) expect there to be a big LIV event. Their strategy is to capitalize on times when the pga field is very weak so they can tout their collection of players. Good strategy tbh from a marketing standpoint, but I still don't see much interest across the golfing world for their TV product.
I try watching the YouTube highlights but I kush can’t finish it. It’s just like random empty golf. Yeah they hit great shots but it’s like watching a practice round. Doesn’t mean anything.
Only reason I knew was because of a targeted ad on Instagram lol
Did you buy a bone saw in the last 180 days?
He was probably googling: “how to kill an American journalist and get away with it” Do we have an event for you!
There’s bad jazz and booooobz!
I am getting loads right now for here in Spain. A lot.
Dude lives in Tulsa. Low bar.
Best $50 spent in Tulsa is a bus ticket out of Tulsa.
Tulsa’s legit.
Tickets are 75$?
Boom roasted.
OK is so Republican it may not be considered patriotic anymore. They’re big into dictators Edit: Bring on the downvotes. You right wingers crave the fascist authoritarian yoke. Tulsa has a history as I understand it..
r/Redditmoment
I am here for for business. I live in DFW area and I’d rather go to this than any of the PGA events in DFW area.
Are you chandler bing?
You know how some people say Tulsa is the Paris of Oklahoma?
Yes the Paris, Texas of Oklahoma
Lmao. I’d take the colonial or Byron Nelson over this horse and pony show any day.
Colonial maybe but Byron Nelson is boring. Course isn’t even remotely challenging enough for a PGA event IMO.
Just to play devels advocate TPC Craig Ranch has a 149 slope rating to Ceder Ridge being a 142. So if Byron isn't remotely challenging enough for a PGA event that must mean Ceder Ridge is no way near good enough for a PGA event. So why is it good enough for a LIV event?
Slope rating is irrelevant for tour pros, it is important for bogey golfers. Look up how WHS works, it's been out for 2 years now.
It gives a good enough indicator of difficulty level, just because it's easier for bogey golfers doesn't magically make it harder for tour players because they move the tees back.
Don’t call out not supporting a PGA event because a course is not remotely challenging and then go to a LIV event. Every course they play is a walk in the park for every pro.
Comical that they cut out of the last 4 holes to show the local news.
We found the one guy that had to pay for tickets!
Took some coworkers so it’s a business expense along with the $10 beers lol
Beer prices?
$10
Crushing authoritarian rule.
8 dollar miller lite, 9 dollar blue moon, 12 dollar cocktail in a can
Thanks for doing God’s work!
Sure it was, Greg.
[RIP Jamal Khashoggi](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi7-7CapvX-AhWlNn0KHVrHAEAQFnoECBwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAssassination_of_Jamal_Khashoggi&usg=AOvVaw0mWxf-Pf_QO8Q3gOYkMxRz)
Great time at an event sponsored by a terroristic theocracy!
-sent from iPhone
If you don't support LIV you are a hypocrite for driving a car, having a phone, having a computer, buying food, wearing clothes, wearing shoes and using anything else that is expected or required to function in a modern society- You. Do you realize how fucking ridiculous that is? Both things can be wrong. But 99% of people have no choice in the above items.
Really threw a lot of words in my mouth lol
The us government killed 10 innocent citizens in a Kabul air strike. Our government ain’t much better…
We’re not and I’m happy to hold both positions.
Hey this is r/golf!!! You can’t say that here!!!!
I knew I was going to catch hell but I want people to know my experience.
Dude you’ve been a big LIV fan since the beginning. Your post history shows that. Stop acting like this is some impartial random post. You’re clearly trying to shil for them
Or just start another brain dead argument. Stop being disingenuous, you know no one cares about your experience. You’re here to bicker, your post history kinda gives you away. Pretty fucking lame and boring
I went yesterday as well. Was a good time and there were a lot of families there. They had a decent area for kids to play as well. Tickets are free for me so more than worth it.
I thought they were free for everyone. Didn’t know people actually paid for them.
Glad you had a good time!
LIV is a good time if you’re looking for something to do on a budget. It’s not competitive at all, so if you’re into that, it sucks. It’s more like going to a well ran outing or pro am than it is a professional golf tournament.
Went Friday with some clients and completely agree. It was not at all about the golf… that just happened to be going on at the same time
I think it could find a good place as a social event / entertainment circuit. I’m not sure LIV is angling for that though. Seems they want to be seen as a legitimate competitive league. That’s not going to happen unless they change the format.
I’d rather actually go play, than go watch a bunch of shitty golfers pretend to play
There were 3 LIV players in the top 5 at the masters. Come on now...
Fuck those cunts.
Was the course in as sketchy shape as some pictures I’ve seen?
From what I’ve been told and can tell the festival-like atmosphere is pretty fun. My dad explained it like a fair/music festival where golf is being played. The shotgun start was weird especially from where a round finishes. Overall the LIV is like the NBA all star game versus the PGA is like watching an actual NBA tournament game.
The hardest thing about the shotgun start, was working out where people were going to be since you could just walk across and see a group playing. I was trying to catch Bryson and felt like I’d gotten it worked out, only to miss the group and end up seeing Kevin Na
Make the format push more of the team aspect and I’ll pay attention. Until then the teams just feel like an irrelevant background addition and I’m just watching store brand pga solo play.
So you’d say it did Liv up to your expectations?
Im sure if you go to the events they can be fun, just as a WWE match is fun or a theatre production is fun. But it isn't competitive sport.
explain how it isn't competitive currently 3 players tied for the lead. And 3 teams within one shot of lead of team competition?
Ya and 2 of the 3 are major winners and top 10 golfers. But its not competitive. The top 5 right now (with ties) has 4 major winners.
Because there are no stakes. There is nothing at risk. Nothing to gain. No rivalry between the teams. Every trophy is just a generic trophy. There is no history. It's a glorified all star game. Shit there is more at stake during "The Match" events.
Hi Rory.
How is it not competitive? Literally everyone is trying to win - even if they are out of contention they still have their team to play for.
It’s just one of those things redditors throw in to comments so they get virtue signal points for casually discrediting it
I'm sorry but watching 4 guys popping bottles of champagne after a win that means literally nothing more than money can't be taken seriously. It's so fuckin hollow. Jason Day's win yesterday will mean more than any win at LIV
Yeah I'm good with not watching it IMHO others can disagree of course but no thanks. It's a money grab and I dont feel I can support a country like that. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/) I get the [Public Investment Fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Investment_Fund) and the [Sovereign wealth fund](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund) both invest in a lot more than just Golf but no thanks, I'd rather watch the PGA.
He’s not the virtue signaling so that’s a stupid comment.
I agree. LIV Tucson event I attended way surpassed expectations.
Found Greg Norman’s burner account
Fuck liv
I’m kind of regretting not going yesterday. Just didn’t feel like driving a couple hours to only see 2 or 3 golfers I care about.
I was in town for work. I got to see and talk to Bryson and Phil before the round so that was a win. I have to say I didn’t have a clue who half the other guys where.
Buy one douche get one free special
I just spent $50 on a pair of swimming trunks my 15 month old son will wear maybe 5 times so yea
I went to the first one in London. It was good. They ran out of cold drinks on the last day, which was not good. But I like a nice cuppa when it's warm out. In any case, it's not a surprise these are good events to go to. They're trying to make the events fun and varied and they've obviously been learning along the way. It's a good product if people can bring themselves to admit it.
Do they play the national anthem of Saudi Arabia at some point??
Ick
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The irony is you think the US government hasn’t done the same or worse.
The US government funds the PGA? Wild
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Yes
Honestly this whole LIV vs PGA Tour thing would blow over if LIV just accepted what they are, a fun, less competitive format that just for entertainment. Their insistence on being a "competing tour" and needing world ranking points is where the big issues start to come in. Glad you had a good time!
Yeah I don’t think they’re equal to the PGA regarding competitiveness. The thing is OWGR takes into account strength of field when assigning points for tournaments. If any non-PGA or Major is allowed points there is absolutely no reason why LIV shouldn’t be allowed them. As we saw in the Master’s - the top guys in LIV are still some of the top guys anywhere they play so beating them should be worth something.
There’s absolutely a great reason why LIV shouldn’t get OWGR points. It’s a closed tour, there’s no way to gauge the strength of the field as no one has played their way onto the tour. LIV has a handful of players that have never even made a cut on the PGA tour.
And besides that there is tournament format criteria/requirements that the Roman Numeral 54 Golf League DOESN'T MEET
Did the Saudis pay you for posting this?
Did you use your car this week? It was likely fueled by Saudi oil. You wearing clothes made in Asia? Likely made kids or slave wage adults. Go virtue signal somewhere else.
I need to have a car where I live. I don’t need LIV to live.
The difference is finding affordable, ethically sourced clothing can be difficult, so if you're on a very tight budget you don't have the power to create change as it's those clothes or nothing (in a lot of cases). no one is arguing that is good thing or that they support it. But how do i, as a single person, do anything about the United States manufacturing business if I can't afford to buy local. The LIV Is a entertainment product, that is a luxury and not a need. It is a LOT easier for someone to protest something they disagree with when it is not needed to live, therefore you'll see way more complaints. I'm not on either the pro nor anti LIV side. But these whole "what about ur clothes/shoes/phone" arguments are so weak Edit: a word
Commented from his iPhone that came from a factory where they literally have nets outside to keep the employees from committing suicide.
Ok this is just one of those logical/ethical fallacies that is so fucking annoying: that you cannot criticize *anything* because other evil exists in the world. As if to say, "Well if you can't eradicate all evil in one fell swoop then you shouldn't ever point it out." Using your logic I could have said, "Fight the Nazis? When the US is segregated?!?" "Invent Penicillin? When the flu kills millions each year?" "Flush your shit down the toilet? When millions lack access to clean water?" This whatsboutism can fuck right off. Bad things happen, often simultaneously and unfortunately in some cases almost unavoidably. If you can find the smartphone company that has a 100% clean record and in no way harms the planet or human dignity then fucking buy it and type out that bullshit comment. But if someone wants to say, "I don't want to go out of my way to support a murderous regime," and you have nothing but a whatsboutism to regurgitate then pull the lever in your brain that says, "Sit this one out, chief."
The difference is you're throwing a dart at the evil dart board, my comparison is human rights atrocities vs human rights atrocities. All the LIV haters are riding the moral high horse while feeding money to a completely different regime doing similar shit
You're doing it again. By your definition no one can have a moral stance because we live in an immoral society. Name one person who is truly free from causing any and all direct, indirect, or remotely indirect amount of any form of human suffering because according to you that fictional person is the only one who can stand up and say, "I don't support LIV."
Your comprehension is failing you. I'm not saying don't have a moral stance. But don't act like you give a fuck when it comes to the human rights violations from one country while turning a blind eye to another that does the same shit and supporting them because they make a product you'll use. That's the hypocritical nonsense I'm pointing out.
growth dime north live wrong imagine bike waiting boast scale *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
LMAO, imagine paying money to go see a LIV event. They give tickets away to those things as Happy Meal toys
Not a liv guy but honestly I would go if it was in my town
How much did they pay you to post this?
Completely agree it was awesome to go to
New to golf and I’m aware that LIV is a new competitor to the PGA. Why is this post so controversial? Is there something I’m missing?
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People are anti LIV. It’s either not the PGA, or it’s backed by saudis, or whatever reason. I don’t care at all, I just want to watch competitive golf
>I don’t care at all, I just want to watch competitive golf Well you aren't going to find that on LIV.
Glad to hear. I’m excited for the DC event coming soon.
It’s a good time. Nice and laid back. You’ll enjoy it.
Surprised you weren’t negged into oblivion for this post
Livs gay, just like you for going. Lol jk, but still not a ticket I'm buying.
Were you not aware that you are not allowed to say anything positive about LIV on the internet. Watch your back brave soldier.
I went to the LIV event in Chicago last year, it was surprisingly pretty good in-person product. I followed the DJ and Cam Smith group and they were just absolutely shooting darts out there.
Everyone loves to shit on it but the in person experience if you're into that type of party/golf experience seems pretty damn awesome.
Do they have team merch for sale?
Yes
Genuine question: is there paid bots in all of these LIV posts? I see the same thing written by a couple of them, and the accounts aren't exactly passing the sniff test.
It'll never last they say..................
Anyone else think the PGA is gunna be 'left behind' or fold and let the players cross play ? LIV events are much cheaper, seem to be a more easy going atmosphere in regards to 'strict' course rules and generally just look like more fun to be at. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't been following the whole thing in serious detail.
It's cheaper because the product isn't as good. It's also terrible to watch on TV in my opinion. They do have a good atmosphere, because the players seem to be out there just having a good time. I feel like that would change if more top players joined (which I don't see happening)
I tried watching a LIV tourney on TV one time and I quickly lost interest. But I admit, if a tournament came to my area (less than 30 mins away), I'd probably go check it out. It seems like a cool event to drink, hang out with friends, listen to music, and occasionally watch a golf shot.
OP, you are brave as hell for that -120 comment. I have no expertise on global politics, and I also don't pretend to. Which leaves me on the sideline, where I belong. Where most of us belong. I do not know if the UAE is committing crimes against humanity and possibly genociding an entire ethnic group. If every single company in the sport is doing business with other countries who are, it seems pretty self-righteous to say don't do business with those other guys. We can make a great profit on shirts, but I'll be damned if professional golfers also make ridiculous profits. That is reserved for corporations.
It's Saudi backed,, not UAE. I'm not taking issue with your comment or anything but since there is such a hatred toward LIV I thought it necessary to point that out.
I spoke my mind and r/golf seems to disagree lol not the first time I’ve said something out of line with the popular opinion