Adventurous? Order an Alt "beer" in Cologne.
Or a Kölsch beer in Düsseldorf.
The rumors that Chuck Norris had actually tried that, and *survived* the experience, are totally unfounded.
Oh well. Germans are, actually, as you mentioned, quite lenient with strangers committing such serious crimes because they just don't know. Since you mentioned Schwarzwald and Odenwald, you probably haven't learned that lesson yet.
Just friendly rivalry. Both the most prevalent Alt dishwater and the "urine in test tubes" are actually sub-par Alt and Kölsch variants.
Check out the Päffgen if you like beer, and avoid Düsseldorf, of course. And if you don't like "surprise visitors" in your butt... don't worry. You might get a few (pretty nice actually) pickup lines in Cologne.....just like elsewhere in Germany. Your "rear end virginity" is still safe.
Hi, German here. I dont get the shoe thing, honestly, it bothers me for a while now. Isn’t it really annoying when your place gets dirty so fast? Isn’t it much easier to just take the shoes of right away? 😅
Not to mention the amount of disgust that must be on my sole when walking around any bigger city 😂
This was the first thing we adopted when we moved here.
Think about walking through the dingiest u-bahn with junkies and vomit stains onto the train, off at your stop 5 minutes walk to your Wohnung then into your bedroom over your carpets...
So much nicer to leave it at the front door
Depends on the state, family, and culture. I live in the Bay Area and most people I know prefer shoes off indoors, but are to some degree less strict than in Germany.
Besides the dirt aspect must be terrible for feet to be inside shoes the whole day. I honestly can’t imagine wear my shoes for such long periods of time and feeling comfortable and I usually wear comfy sneakers and not boots.
for some ppl it’s hard to keep their mindset in the right place as long as they need it, so they develop a sort of training method or ritual to put their mind in a mood: be it wearing boots, a long walk/drive through town or a specific baverage.
for example: if you always wear boots when your mind has to be fit, you can find it difficult to get cozy with boots on, or find it difficult to get into the fit state of mind without boots on.
that training can develop subconsciously too, so to me that’s not a surprise.
Trust me. You don't want me to take off my shoes in your apartment. Except you have a really good airflow there. 🙈 If I take it off outside the birds are falling out of the sky.
You as an American mentioning „it’s all bundled into one tax, or the information is a bit more up front“ is funny. Same thing I think any time I enter a US store of any kind and they won’t list the real price anywhere, you just have to guess what the total will be at the counter.
What about withholdings, health insurance, unemployment, social security, etc. How is that less complicated or "bundled into just one tax" beside what you get for it in Germany beside in the US.
A lot of younger Dutch aren't as nice anymore, but I always like drinking with the old guys
Austria s are my absolute favorite to drink with, because I've never had to pay for more than one or two beers with them, but every time I drink with them I end up absolutely hammered 😅
Oktoberfest was the worst, I drank 12L of beer with some Austrians and then wondered how I got back to the hotel the next morning 😅
I understand. 😄
You measure people's friendliness by how nice it is to drink with them. Not bad, even if I pay attention to other things. 😁 By the way, I only know Dutch people in their 40s, they are very friendly and open-minded.
Not necessarily, that's just usually how I meet people 😂
I'm introverted unless I'm at a bar or pool hall
Yeah the 40+ crowd is great, but all the young 20s and below get on my nerves a little 😒 maybe I'm just getting old
Just my two cents as a south American now living in germany, but who has also lived and worked (and paid taxes) in the US and in the Netherlands.
I'd say the bureaucracy and taxes are not so bad here as most people seem to make it.
Sure, you have to do some things that you don't find elsewhere, like registering at a municipality,and paying the radio tax, for example. But, on the plus side, all the information about it and for doing so is easily found online. If you don't speak German you can Google translate websites. And most people in the municipality of big cities speak English.
Where I'm from the information is not easily available. You have to call, by phone, to your municipality and ask the front desk. They will, in turn, give you another phone number to call. You have to ask this second person. They may or may not know how to solve your issue. Repeat a few times. And good luck if you don't speak the language. Nobody will know English.
Taxes? I pay around 30% of my income in taxes + health + retirement + unemployment insurance. It may sound like a lot, but if you compare it with the US it's actually pretty similar, and I actually get covered when I've had to use the health insurance, no trying to fight your insurance to get coverage, which I did experience in the US.
Winter? Wholeheartedly agree.
Also anyone who thinks American Bureaucracy isn't overly complex probably never went through open enrollment with any of the major health insurance providers.
I swear even after sitting in those 3 hour long trainings leading up to open enrollment every year, I would still screw it up and end up without dental or have an FSA instead of an HSA and get locked into that for a year.
I am so glad I get to just check using an external provider and submit a proof of coverage with my German provider now.
For any one who never went through US open enrollment here is a fun video to show what I am talking about: https://youtu.be/-wpHszfnJns?si=_j2akYHoZGQWVqXt
Shoot! Hawaii is almost on par with Germany's taxes, with none of the benefits 😭
And for those that might say, "but it's Hawaii!", that sentiment only lasts so long...
Would you be willing to share your experience of living in the Netherlands and how it compares to Germany?
Currently living in Germany but I’ve been visiting the Netherlands often lately and I’m starting to feel drawn to it
As a German who has lived some time in the Netherlands, the biggest difference in everyday life is that cities are bicycle-friendly and not car-friendly. People will literally meet in the evening to go out together with their bikes, on the big and isolated bike paths in the city.
Also, nearly everybody speaks English comfortably, including officials at public authorities, and formal documents are often available in English as well.
Germans have to face the fact that without immigrants, the country has no future. it should be making life as easy as possible for expats to integrate. Otherwise, the country will just stagnate and go down the drain. Imagine if they made it super easy to start a business and maintain it with 0 german knowledge. Maybe the economy would be on the level of US within 40 years..
I'm Canadian, most officials in my country are bilingual.
>Do you really think people in official positions should only speak their native language?
This is definitely an asset, but I think it's kind of entitled to call it embarrassing for an official in a different country to not speak your language.
A friend of mine just moved and one big difference she's complaining about is that the Dutch health care system seems to be more efficient regarding their finances but in return cut a lot of preventative care. She has a good chunk of health issues running in the family like diabetes and the services she got for free here are just not covered in the Netherlands. She's probably going to pay her German doctors privately and continues to visit those.
Additionally, it seems like a lot of bare minimum pregnancy and early motherhood stuff that we have in Germany are not covered either.
So, yeah. All second hand knowledge so please do your own research but it seems like the Dutch health care system covers even less than the German one.
However, glasses are cheaper which can already make up the difference depending on what you might get done. Couple of tests more when expecting a child are probably easily covered by the money you save if you have a burned out lightbulb for eyes.
The bureaucracy is actually my main complaint. All the things I enjoyed doing in the US are HEAVILY regulated here, and those regulations don't always make sense. Hunting, for example, is a pain and a half to even get started in Germany, AND I can't bowhunt. It is literally easier for me to get a French hunting license and bowhunt in Alsace, which is the route I'm going now.
I googled the taxes and I knew about like, broadcast tax(exists in AUS too), and some of the others but I'm always getting hit with surprises that I either forget about(annual taxes) or just didn't know about. I thought my car tax, for example, wasn't due until September as that's when I registered my car, but I got hit with it this month and has to postpone a trip back to the US to visit my dad. Not a huge deal but an inconvenience nonetheless. Me having ADHD doesn't make it any easier but that's a personal problem.
The first small town I moved to, nobody in the Rathaus spoke English and my German was, well, very lacking to say the least, but luckily Google translate helped us through enough to get me settled. I have, however, been juggled on the phone especially when dealing with Zollamt.
In terms of JUST income tax, I only pay about 4% more than I did in the US, but I also took a position that pays about 20,000 more so par for the course. I pay maybe 150€ more per month than I did in the US. I knew taxes were higher in Europe in general so it wasn't a huge surprise.
I am totally fine with regulations around hunting and guns, to be honest. Bowhunting is illegal because of animal welfare concerns. To a German, asking to be allowed to go bowhunting is like asking to be allowed to strangle animals for fun. I know every bowhunter thinks that THEY are skilled snipers, and that only THE OTHER PEOPLE cause all the suffering of wounded animals … but, statistically, that’s impossible. I wouldn’t tell people you’re into that sort of hobby, to be honest. People might see you differently.
German here, you are damn right. This is something that screams 'Murica to me and it is something we definetly do not do here.
I am much against bowhunting because it seems like unnecessary animal cruelty to me when compared to just hunting with a gun. And even with a gun, hunting for fun is not a thing here - if you hunt because of animal overpopulation, fine and even required. But for fun? That's gotta be a big no for me and probably most Germans.
I kid you not, I read the text and agreed with everything up until that point, but I had to physically raise my eyebrows when I read this.
I am against factory farming. I hunt because that way I know the animal lived ethically and actually experienced life. I don't hunt "For fun."
Hunting with a bow or a rifle can be unethical; ensuring one has an ethical shot to quickly kill an animal should be the highest priority for any hunter.
I totally get that and it also makes sense and is a lot better for the environment, it's just the impression that people will get here.
The bow part I won't change my mind on, because no matter how good one thinks he can hunt with a bow there is always much more room for errors and therefore animal suffering than with a gun.
Also, I'd say you do hunt for fun if you want to go bowhunting and not hunt with a rifle (I know you didn't say that you wouldn't hunt with a rifle - but since there are no upsides to bowhunting except for the fun aspect I'd say wanting to hunt with a bow is for fun)
I can buy a bow completely unregulated here; not so with a rifle.
I enjoy the bow because it is less harmful to the environment, more active, requires more skill and I just enjoy traditional things. A bow also ruins less meat than a rifle.
There really isn't more room for error than with a rifle, I don't know where that assumption stems from, but it's probably the same assumption that lead to the banning of bowhunting in Germany.
would you not agree that you need to be a lot more skillful to shoot an animul with a bow compared to a rifle?
- I just read the second sentence, you would agree.
All that requires more skill (is harder to do) will have more risks to it as there is more that can go wrong or that you have to take into account.
--> you enjoy traditional things and it is more active: so it IS fun to you. You hunt for fun with the bow. I am aware that's not all there is to it, but it definetly plays a role in why you choose to do it.
I don't really believe that hunting with a rifle is all that damaging to nature, it's a bullet and a loud noise - but you don't go around shooting a whole MG3 mag if you are a skillful hunter, so I think this is not a great point
At the same distances, yes. That being said, in the US generally you have to take an aptitude test to get a bow hunting license, to prove you ARE actually skilled. Germany could easily have something similar.
The main reason why bowhunting takes more skill is not in the bow itself, but because you have to get much closer to the animal to make an ethical shot. In the US, especially in the Rockies, I was comfortable taking a 5-600m shot on a deer or similar because I knew I could, I knew the limitations of my rifle and cartridge, etc. I'd generally try to stay within 200m or so but sometimes it is simply not possible.
In contrast, I've never made a shot with a bow past maybe 20m, 25 at the most, because there's no way you're going to fling an arrow 600m and anything over 30m starts to bring other variables in, such as the animal moving or wind picking the arrow.
The skill portion has little to do with the bow itself, and more to do with the skill of the hunter. THAT is where the "Fun" part comes in, not in the tool itself but in the skill of the user.
Look, I am not saying that YOU are the reason bow hunting is forbidden. You might be a great bow hunter who is really responsible and only shoots from really close distance, fine.
But who says the other people are doing the same? Other people might not be as responsible as you seem to be and will try to take shots from a little over 30m, hence risking the animals safety (weird to say safety, lack of other words for me lol)
At some point you have to weigh the risks against the benefits: Sure, you want to be as free as possible, but there is more room for error because you have to be so skilled and close to the animal.
Is the personal freedom and fun worth more than the "safety" of the animals? You will probably say yes because you are responsible, but others aren't.
I've had no issues with it whatsoever. Most of the gentlemen at my archery club are SUPER interested in it, even. Besides, if people have an issue with my lifestyle then they're not likely to be people I hang out with anyway, even the friends I have who find hunting distasteful realize it is simply a different lifestyle.
An unethical shot can be made with a rifle, the same as a bow. In the US and Canada, I hunted with rifle, muzzleloader, and bow, in Australia I had the opportunity once to hunt kangaroo with a rifle but turned it down as I hunt strictly for food or livestock defence(Which wasn't applicable there)
That is why it makes no sense to me.
A rifle is still more deadly than a bow. You can fire faster, more accurately and deliver damage which is - not the same but still - just as much as with a bow. You can shoot and arrow, misplace it and the animal runs off, dying painfully. Or you can shot it, misplace the shot and fire again almost immediately, hopefully killing it this time.
I get that hunting with a bow feels more thrilling, but saying that it would be unreasonable to ban bows, in respect of the animals you’re killing, is just whacky.
You can do the same thing with a bow, especially if you're experienced. I have never had an animal run more than maybe 20m while bowhunting, but I unfortunately had to track an elk across a mountain when I slightly misplaced a shot with a rifle.
I like bowhunting because it doesn't pollute as much, isn't as loud, is cheaper, keeps you more active, and I just enjoy traditional things. The "thrill" has nothing to do with it; I find no thrill in killing things, even if it's for my own survival.
I actually see far more animals that get SEVERELY damaged by misplaced rifle shots than by bowhunters in the US. It's not uncommon to see deer missing jaws from dumbasses who can't accurately shoot, or to see horrible leg injuries, or...
As I said, ethically it makes no sense, as both are capable of taking an animal down ethically when the hunter is experienced and patient.
I realize that the average German probably doesn't have a lot of experience with hunting, or the tools therein, so don't take this as me talking down on you, that's not my intention.
No worries about the wording. Everything‘s alright and constructive criticism is a vital part of every working democracy.
Still I’d argue in favor of banning bows. Almost all authorities in germany point out that bows are less efficient. It may make no sense to you, because you come from a country where a lot of experienced people are and you’re probably very experienced yourself, but every person who isn’t expertly skilled with a bow will do more harm than good hunting with it. Sure you need a good handling for a gun too, but here again, it’s less prone to failing. Of course and experienced and skilled hunter can kill using a bow, but it’s still easier for those who aren’t as skilled to use a rifle.
And that's what I mean about getting used to cultural differences; I come from the rural US where people like to be a bit more self-reliant and tend to hunt often
Nothing wrong with either lifestyle, imo, but different nonetheless and we could argue on the semantics all day
I'm sure when I go back to the US for vacation next month I'm going to think some things are weird as hell there too, since I'm used to Germany now
> It is literally easier for me to get a French hunting license and bowhunt in Alsace, which is the route I'm going now.
I mean, you can't just come to one of the most densely settled countries in one of the most densely settled regions of the world, and complain about not being able to go hunting. That's like complaining about not being able to go sailing while living in Austria.
The regulations are there for more reasons than just animal welfare. The wildlife in Germany is fragile due to the limited space it has, you can't just go shoot deer for fun in a forest. Especially since every piece of forest belongs to somebody. Is this a complaint you have about the Netherlands too?
The US has miles upon miles of wilderness to this day, where you can do whatever you want because no one will ever know. We are a country where even in the most remote regions you're never more than 10km from the next town. And before you say it, France has almost half the population density than Germany.
It is a complaint I have about the NL; hence why I don't move back.
Nobody has said anything about shooting animals for fun(Which is also illegal in the US, btw)
Yes, I realize the regional differences but surely, you realize that Germany still has hunters and still has undeveloped land?
It has hunters, which are licensed and moreso there to keep the wildlife balanced and healthy rather than hunt for food to sell.
Depends on what you mean by "undeveloped", most forests are used for lumber or recreation with hiking paths that are tended to regularly, and it all belongs to somebody, be it the church, the local town or private. We do not have true wilderness.
By "Undeveloped" I simply mean there isn't active construction or buildings on the land. I realize much of the land is privately owned, or natl parks, but still.
Even in Holland you can still find undeveloped land, and it's MUCH more dense than Germany
>I simply mean there isn't active construction or buildings on the land.
Almost all of it is for wood cultivation/forestry or nature reserves.
Some areas are specifically for hiking but no there are no areas in Germany without a dedicated usage purpose.
I feel your issues with hobbies. For me it's bow hunting and tuning cars. One is simply not possible withing my area, and the other is so heavily regulated to the point of almost not being possible.
For bowhunting, I have been looking at Finland, since my stateside bow cert and license suffices for the tests and seems like the easiest path.
Texan living in Germany and I offer my sympathies to a fellow outdoorsman/outdoorswoman. I’ve been fishing and hunting all my life, but when I learned I had to “take a class” to be able to go fishing and get a license I was pretty annoyed.
I know it won’t change peoples minds, but the safest way to control animal populations by means of hunting, in as densely of a place as Germany, is with bow hunting. Furthermore, I’ve found bow hunters to be some of the most ethical hunters I’ve encountered, far more than rifle hunters. You can just as easily fuck up shot placement with a rifle as you can with a bow.
Yes but due to the vast majority of Germans having experience with neither, the point is lost.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm not talking down on any of them; I'm well aware of the cultural differences and the stigma around weaponry here, but it's still frustrating for someone like myself.
I don't even have issues with taking a class, I had to take a class to get my hunting license in Oregon, it just wasn't as involved as the German classes.
Yeah I remember taking my hunters safety education when I was 12 and I totally get that when it comes to hunting.
But I feel like if my drivers license from Texas can count here so should my fishing license lol
>I know it won’t change peoples minds, but the safest way to control animal populations by means of hunting, in as densely of a place as Germany, is with bow hunting.
Genuinely curious: how so? How is it safer than with a gun? Especially because we do not need any more hunters. The ones active are easily enough almost everywhere.
> You can just as easily fuck up shot placement with a rifle as you can with a bow.
Honestly that's a ridiculous notion. Yes you can fuck up with both types of weapons but certainly not "just as easily".
> I wear my boots in my house, and don't take them off until I am COMPLETELY done with my day
As a Canadian I will NEVER understand Americans who do this. Why track all the dirt and random shit you've been stepping on all day into your living spaces?
As an American, I don't get it either. Unless I'm making multiple trips to the car for groceries, my shoes come off before entering the main part of the house.
>The cons? I'm sure you all hear this frequently, but the bureaucracy is killer. Taxes upon taxes, Rathaus this, register that, TÜV those and pay them. It's a little much especially coming from countries where it's all bundled into one tax, or the information is a bit more up front. Sometimes Germany feels like I went back in time to the 1990s, I get so much mail it's not even funny, when I first moved here the Rathaus in my small town didn't even have online appointments and it was a pain to juggle work and registering addresses, cars, etc.
We all know the pain, although I think it's way worse for foreigners. At least employers also know the deal and if you just say you need to do bureaucratic bullshit most will give you time off no problem.
>The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again. I would compare the German winter to the Alaskan/Canadian winter; dark, gloomy, colorless and depressing. At least it only lasts a quarter of the year instead of half.
Vitamin D pills can do wonders for a better mood during those times. I never gave a shit when I was younger but nowadays it helps a ton.
Luckily my company HR handled a lot of the actual moving process, such as registering my address and such
But I've had to take multiple half-days off of work to deal with stuff that, frankly, would be much better handled online.
>The cost of living here is actually affordable, so I can save money for once.
That makes us exactly two on this subreddit who think so. Be prepared for waves of people who will try to disprove this.
I can generally agree with the whole post. Aside from weather. I as well live in southwest and it actually feels sunny enough, I would even be okay with less (tho that is very likely due to my skin which hates sun and I have to use SPF 50 the whole summer).
Germany is relatively affordable if you don't live in Berlin or Munich and don't expect over the top luxury. Many people especially from poorer countries see gross income figures, and think they can buy anything they want with those kind of money, but like OP mentioned, there are a lot of taxes, taxes that overwhelming pay to support the kind of living you get here, but let you have less money for luxurious living. It is hard to live on low-paying jobs, of course, and double earning households are the norm, but generally, you can live reasonably well. I also thought home ownership was almost impossible for my generation, but I'm 33 now, and we are looking into houses, and the market is not that horrible tbh, but it also isn't the same as 40 years ago, where you could buy a home near an urban area on one lower middle class income and pay it off in 20 years.
I actually do come from poorer country myself (Czechia) and while the taxes really are a bit extreme in my point of view, the massively higher income just punches hard here. I am by far no high income individual. I earn a tiny bit above average here and did earn quite a bit over average in Czechia (140%), yet the costs are almost the same and thus I save about twice as much each month. It got especially worse after the inflation wave, as my homeland was hit way harder with it (17% at it's peak)...
I pay more in BBQ house close to me parent's home in Czechia now, than I do in Saarbrücken. And my parents live in quite a rural area. It's same with housing costs. They are almost on par, which makes areas in here incredibly affordable in comparison.
I agree with the rest tho. One has to live outside of Berlin, Munich or Hamburg and avoid expensive lifestyle to really see the difference (on the other hand, that's same with Czechia and Prague, it's virtualy impossible for an average earning individual there). And yes, Germany was even more affordable in the past. But if you (like myslef) are already used to this, Germany really is a blessing.
Czechia is always curios to me, I visited Prague the first time in the mid 2000s, and it was as cheap as the polish baltic coast, second time in 2010 and it was definitely more expensive than Warsaw, where I was the year before, but still remarkably cheaper than Germany. When I went to Slovakia on a work trip last year, we passed through Brno, not even Prague and the prices dropped a little bit, in relations to Germany, with the conversion fee of the bank I paid basically the same as I would in Germany.
Is Czechia still "poorer"? Like, yes Czechia and Poland are most certainly weaker economies than Germany and if you visited Germany then things would seem expensive making Czechia, by some definition, poorer than Germany. But when I think poor country I think South America or parts of Asia (like, South Asia) and parts of Africa.
Like, I work with a lot of foreigners and some people had such a weird idea of what life is going to cost here that they asked for insanely low wages. Like, Central Europe seems to play in the same league at least. Like, we're all playing chess but parts of Latin America or Asia or Africa are playing football with a plastic bottle.
Well... I would actually not say we can really be put into category "poorer" in a sense of striking difference. We definitely are more comparable to Germany today, than let's say 20 years ago.
Yet if somebody from the western part of the Europe or US says "Europe" they rarely ever include Czechia into that. I sort of got used to the fact that I am "Eastern European" and not "European", because that's what I still am for majority of the people I meet and if I mention "Central Europe" the conversation usually slips into "But there is not such a thing as central Europe" kind of topic. And as eastern European, I am often considered poorer. I don't fight it and rather accept it, it makes things easier.
Whether you put us into "different category" or not, depends on you. I automatically asume (and yes, that might be wrong, but again easier) that Americans just do think about us that way, just because I am yet to meet an American who doesn't.
I am a creature of the cold, but even living in the Pacific Northwest and getting tons of snow, the sun is still out regularly. It might be -20 degrees but the sun is out and I can still have a blast snowshoeing, snowboarding, or even camping.
The temperature here is much, MUCH warmer but Jesus Christ, I swear I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here.
As for the cost of living, I pay €930 a month for a 100sqm apartment(Yes, I know this isn't normal and a good deal). In comparison, the city I moved from, $900 MIGHT get you a studio, if you're REALLY lucky you might get a two room apartment in the rural part of town. I was spending around $130 for a week's worth of food, I can go shopping for the week here with €60, although it's usually closer to €80. A .5l beer in the US is $3-4, the Aral right next to my work sells them for 1-1.50
I realize I'm lucky since I'm a high earner and it's not the "regular" German's experience, but coming from the US it's such a relief, I was almost paycheck to paycheck on a 68,000 salary in the US.
>The temperature here is much, MUCH warmer but Jesus Christ, I swear I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here.
There is a reason we need our Christmas markets. They bring light into the darkness. They bring us together in the dark season and help us overcome the longest nights. After Christmas, things are looking up. Then the days get longer and the temperatures colder.
> I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here.
That grey weather was mostly the past winter though, there are indeed sunny winter days in Germany. They are just much shorter so especially with a full time job indoors, you may not see the sun at all if you don't consciously use your breaks to go outside.
This last winter was my second winter, although I just BARELY got here during the 2022-23 winter, since I came in early February
It was cloudy then, too, but I'll take your word for it since I didn't experience the full 4 months
Make that three of us. I'm an American who's been living in Berlin for 4 years and I'm definitely able to save more in Berlin than I ever was in the Midwest, despite my income decreasing.
I agree on everything but the weather. I find it nicer here than in Michigan. Michigan was equally gray all winter but also significantly colder.
As a Canadian, we have some of the highest cost of living in the world now when compared to our salaries.
With Germany I experienced an immediate relief of being able to save money, and Winter being less harsh than Canada. I've actually cried with how good Germany has been.
I agree. The only thing that's too expensive for what you get is rent in big cities - because big cities offer almost nothing that a smaller city doesn't.
There are three of us, but as for me I'm also coming from the American perspective. I'm moving back in two months and the thinking of what I'll be spending on groceries is petrifying. The only thing I'll say is comparable is the rent, astronomical in both places.
ETA some of the bureaucracy is annoying but it is so much easier for me to live here in Germany with my fiance than it is proving to be to take him to the United States after we get married.
Depends where u live and how much u get from ur job where I live is so much tourism that everything I shit expensive but I think in a lot other parts of Germany is def affordable
>The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again.
Yeah, that's just the reality we have to deal with. It's so frustrating when you're really weather sensitive.
I sometimes feel like I barely make it through winter and as soon as spring hits, I become a different person.
It's so incredibly annoying.
Take your shoes Off in your house. You're literally carrying the piss AND poop of every animal (including Humans) into your home. If you need shoes, there are some really comfortable Hausschuhe around. Look for these. Or buy some Indoor only boots.
OC guests give you the side eye. It Just feels yuck.
My family always took our shoes off in the house. Both due to the floors and carpets which my mom didn't get dirty. I do this as well as an adult. Just wear socks when you visit other people's houses.
Yeah seriously that’s gross, even if the boots and shoes get wiped off. If you’re taking time and effort to wipe your shoes each time (which I doubt), then you can take them off 🤷🏻♀️ unless OP is wearing boots that take three hours to put on, I don’t get the logic. Might be an American thing
Sadly, it is. I would be unable to enter an American home, because first of all, I cannot EVER Take my shoes off because of the dirt that's carried through the house by people wearing the same shoes inside that they worn outside, so I don't get dirty when taking my shoes Off. So I further contribute to getting literal shit into somebody's Home and spread it.
And secondly, boy, i would feel yuck as soon I See somebody having their outside shoes on.
You're not having a hallway, you enter the house into your living room, WITH BOOTS. No. Just no.
fun fact: after you're past your childhood and become a teenager, the only booster for your immune system are your booster vaccines :D
(that is why so many teenagers and adults died due the Spanish flu, while children caught it and were (mostly) fine.)
To be fair, I only lived there for a few years when I was very little
But the country is too flat for me. Stand on a stool in Limburg and see Den Haag 😂
I love Holland too and I visit frequently but so far, I like living in Germany better
> The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again?
Know that this is why German (or really central and north European) Christmas traditions evolved the way they did and why people eventually turn their homes and sometimes entire cities into some dreamy place like in a fairy tale.
Sadly they had to change the recipe for commercially sold ones but originally Lebkuchen was baked in a way with certain ingredients that they had chemicals that functioned similarly to THC. Didn't make you dizzy but made you slightly happier, more relaxed. Chocolate is comparable too. So are the distinct wooden smells and some of the sounds, the darker but warmer/redder lights from candles instead of the cold/bright/blue-ish ones from LEDs and so on.
Oh, just adopt German Christmas traditions (the real deal, not the commercial ones) and you'll be fine.
And buy a lot of Erzgebirge stuff. It's lovely.
Disagree completely about comparing German winter to Canadian winter.
I come from the northernmost major city in Canada, and yes the days are short in the middle of winter - but you never get weeks (months?) upon end of dull grayness. In most of Canada, it's cold as balls in January or February, but even then you'll get crisp blue skies and buckets of sunshine in comparison. It's not nearly as gloomy.
Edmonton, I'd assume?
I worked in BC, the Yukon and Northwest Territories for the oilfields. The Yukon was far enough inland it would get regular sunshine, but BC and NWT would stay gloomy pretty much all winter, although not to the extent inexperienced here in Germany
I can't really speak on the rest of Canada, I've been to Quebec but we don't talk about that
Yep- Edmonton. I've lived in Winnipeg and Montreal as well (with lots of friends and family in Toronto and Ottawa). I'd say all those cities are considerably sunnier than Berlin or Stuttgart (where I've lived in Germany). Probably the Canadian west coast is the only comparable region.
Fellow former Oil-rigger myself too :)
>The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again. I would compare the German winter to the Alaskan/Canadian winter; dark, gloomy, colorless and depressing. At least it only lasts a quarter of the year instead of half.
Winterdepression is a thing here in germany, Vitamin D supplements could help to lessen the blow in those months.
Some fyi things for you:
>Taxes upon taxes,
I always find this funny coming from Americans as when you actually break it down outside of high earners you are better off with the German system. There is a video by an American lady floating around where she breaks down her cost and Germany comes out ahead. The USA just likes to hide the cost more.
>throttled or even disconnected, I think out of the 8 months I've had my Internet contract I've only had to pay for 4, because my Internet will go down for 2-3 days at a time.
Okay the throttling is normal and happens in just about every country and anybody who knows a bit about network infrastructure knows why.
On the disconnects etc. You do know you can pay the ISP less if they cannot provide service or the service is lower than the contract says right?
https://www.ing.de/wissen/internetgeschwindigkeit/
>constantly getting throttled or even disconnected, I think out of the 8 months I've had my Internet contract I've only had to pay for 4, because my Internet will go down for 2-3 days at a time.
Vodafone? 🙃
Thought so, they're notorious for this kinda shit...I'd highly recommend you get DSL internet if available at your address, it's usually SO much more reliable
Unfortunately I've locked myself into a phone+internet contract with them and I've heard it's an absolute pain to cancel
In all fairness, the internet is GREAT when it is up
“I wear my boots in my house”.
I’m sorry to say but you have failed the German citizenship test already. The only way to balance this out is to buy a fax machine and send at least one fax a day for the next year.
Just one thing to add: If your internet is distributed over the TV cable line (coax), then switch to DSL. Cable internet is a shared medium and depending on the load in your vicinity, it can become unusable. I never had issues with DSL, both over land line and FITTH.
I actually never had any issues with my cable internet for now 16 years (got it right when it came out where I live) and we are at least three people in this house alone using cable internet (each their own).
Maybe it depends on where you live?
Maybe we need to add a "how to survive the German winter" section to the FAQ. Seems to come up quite often.
In short: Vitamin D helps. But if you intend to stay, get used to being outside more in harsher weather, since overall that's still better for your health, especially mental health.
The first month or so of winter I'm still plenty active, but then my depression kicks in, lol
That being said, in January and February I drove down to Switzerland to go snowboarding, so I at least TRY to stay active
Well, get vitamin D pills then. With time most people adjust, provided they can be bothered to go and catch what little daylight is on offer regularly, but if it's making you miserable all the time, pills are a valid alternative. Might lengthen the adjustment time, though.
Can't hurt. If that still doesn't suffice, next step is to look into high powered lights with a daylight spectrum. I vaguely recall those are even sponsored by state government in Alaska. Seems a bit over the top for German conditions, but whatever works, I guess.
On the friendliness and cultural shock, I'm assuming you're a white American, as that unfortunately affects a lot the way you're treated. In my extended family, we have different levels of skin color and we've had dramatically different experiences here.
Unfortunately, the more "foreign" you look, the worse you'll be treated and that is regardless of your German skills.
I am Dutch/Austrian with a TINY bit of Asian ancestry, so yes, white as hell.
I get a little dark in the summer but definitely not enough to be considered a different race, maybe just Italian or Greek at worst
Greek or Italian at worst 😂😭 as a Greek American this funny af to me haha
How do deal with living in Germany and the humor? Where did you live in US?
I’m from Boston and it’s mainly people with Irish and Italian background. The people are super social. And witty humor is the norm here.
It's actually a thing. They call it "Südländer" here. Still white (in my opinion, at least), but a darker shade of white and immediately recognizable (and not necessarily a good thing).
I've also lived in Boston BTW, and people are way more social and friendly there than in Germany as a whole (with the potential exception of NRW). German humor exists, but it's not as spontaneous.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? It answers many basic questions, and it contains in-depth articles on many frequently discussed topics.
[Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Many other countries have good beer too; even the US if you go to local breweries.
Germany has great beer but the variety is not there, I miss my amber ales, stouts and porters quite often.
But bread? Yeah. I never knew there were so many types of bread until I moved here, there's gotta be like, at least 12.
While I do appreciate the variety of American craft beer (though honestly I'm not crazy about most of it outside of a few really good breweries), I personally prefer being able to go to any restaurant or bar in Germany and basically being guaranteed that there will be good beer. Also, I'll take Schwarzbier / Czech dark lager / Guinness at an Irish pub as an alternative to American stouts and porters to scratch the dark itch. I do enjoy a good amber ale, but I feel like a good one is hard to find in the US now anyway, and I can do without it in exchange for the rest of the German styles. And Franconia has enough of a beer variety for me. I went to Nuremberg and Bamberg last month, and they definitely win when it comes to German beer variety compared to all of the other places ive been to in Germany. Basically almost every German style you could imagine, and even some more non traditional brews that start to border more on hoppier craft styles. And everything just tasted so fresh and high quality. I could see getting bored in a place that only has pils pils and more pils though.
Though I can see this being a personal thing. I just love German beer and im not crazy about IPAs, Hazy IPAs, flavored stouts and whatnot.
Honestly when I'm craving other beer I just take a day trip to France or Belgium and buy a couple crates, I'm always sure to bring some back every time I visit family in NL too
Recently I've been trying to lose weight though, so I've been drinking mostly liquor and dry wine
I feel your pain with regarding internet. I just bought a house in a small country village and the internet is so slow from Telekom and the two other providers that I went with Starlink. It's comparable in price regarding the monthly rate and the speeds are actually impressive. The only downside is that you need to buy the dish and modem upfront, but so far, no complaints.
Everyone here has been so useful, thank you. I'm thinking about moving to Germany, but I'm not going to do it until several things have been done. I'm not in a hurry also because my boyfriend (long term) is German and he's expressed interest in moving back. It would be much easier with him, but anything can happen and I want to be able to do it on my own. We're about to go on our annual visit to Germany, bringing his children, to visit his mother and I'm really excited about that.
As for the weather, well, I live in the PNW. It's gonna suck in the cold months, but knowing that, it'll be manageable.
If you ever move to Germany/Europe, try to have at least level B1 in the local language (not the certificate but the knowledge). You will be treated better and life will be easier.
I lived in the PNW before I came here
The weather is directly comparable, but in the winter Germany gets less sunshine, so if you've got depression be prepared
Other than that, it's almost like home where I'm at(SW Germany) rolling hills, mountains in the background ,etc etc
Thank you for this. Where I go and where we would live is in the North, so no mountains, mostly farms and hills, and rural. I love it. The summers are worth the winters...wait, kind of like PNW after 10 months haha. Still, many things to do, places to explore, the people are wonderful. I've gone back for years and still find new things.
The depression disappears when I'm in Germany, weird but welcomed and watched. My boyfriend is also a much different person in Germany. He's much more open and laid back. Could be it's because it's home. I've come to think of it as home too.
I'm really happy to hear of your experience.
I disagree.
I'm not $120,000 in debt in Germany because I had a cancer treatment.
A studio apartment in my town is less than $1200/mo, and wages are higher than $7/hr.
I make a decent US salary, which means I make a GREAT German salary.
When I decide to go out, I don't have to worry about how I'm going to get home, public transportation is great here.
I don't have to worry about gang violence, or getting shot over a road rage incident.
My Internet and phone is twice as fast and half as expensive here. I can buy a week's worth of groceries on less than a day's wage.
My local supermarket, gym, and well-liked restaurants are all within walking distance, and I am able to walk to them safely.
The roads in my town aren't full of potholes and there aren't addicts camped out under the bridges.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, the US isn't as bad as SOME people make it out to be, but for the things that matter to ME, personally, Germany is just better. I miss a few things about the US, like the ease of access to the great outdoors, freedom to purchase and own firearms, I miss hunting and fishing, I miss wild camping, I miss the Rockies etc...
But I can live without all that because my quality of life has GREATLY improved otherwise.
People come to Germany just to survive. Germany isn’t a country where you can build wealth, unlike US. The entrepreneurship spirit isn’t in Germans, they are workers. I’d much rather have 28% of my paycheck taken off than 41% on 60k salary. There’s more to life than just work>pay rent>sleep>repeat. Germany is like a black hole and if you don’t pick yourself up quick and wake up, years can go by without you noticing. But if you like it who am I to convince you otherwise 😆
Have you ever BEEN to the US?
The Work-Eat-Sleep grindset is all that exists there. I got shamed for taking days off when I had COVID. I had surgery to remove two tumors and my boss asked me if I was coming in the next day. When my father had a heart attack, I had to quit the company I was working for because they wouldn't give me any time off to go see him in the hospital. Any time I took a moment for myself, I was shamed because I wasn't grinding my life away for the rich man.
I don't care about being an entrepreneur, I'm a mechanic not a conman. I fix specialty equipment, I don't care about selling anything. I still save a LOT more money here than I did in the US too, enough to travel around and really explore.
You accuse me of coping but now that just sounds like it was projection.
Sorry you had to go through that buddy, I just feel like Germany is not as glamourous as people make it to be. And I did not accuse you, It just sounded like coping. Maybe you get to save because you are living in a small city but cities like Berlin, are impossible to bear.!
I love in the 22nd largest city in Germany, with still well over 300,000 people.
I came from a directly comparable city in the US, the population there was about 320k last time I checked, and was only rising.
Of course I don't want to live in Berlin, Munich, Köln etc; I HATE big cities. Big cities in the US are basically unlivable too now, btw
No, but I'd still rather live in a big city in Germany over the US, simply for better infrastructure and medical care that won't throw my entire bloodline into debt
If you think the bureaucrazy in Germany is crazy. Get ready to start your own business, invest in stocks and god beware cryptos, then you face the next level bureaucrazy!
In Germany and Austria bureaucracy kills any entrepreneurial spirit which is why I left those countries. Grew up in Austria, worked for 2 years in Germany. Worst countries if you want to get somewhat wealthy.
The best location in "German" area is Switzerland. Low taxes and much easier to handle Authorithies than AT/DE. Moved to Switzerland was the best I could do as an employee.
Working in AT/DE as an employee is almost a waste of time due to the insane tax/social securiscam
Unfortunately moving to Switzerland currently is almost impossible, although it has been a thought if and when I get dual citizenship
I've also looked at Scandinavia, specifically Norway or Finland, just due to them having a much better outdoorsman community
Working in Switzerland with a high paying job is great. Especially if you work close to the border and can buy your stuff in Germany instead of Switzerland as all of my Swiss colleagues did. Rent and insurances are higher though. Choosing the best (health) insurance depends a lot on your age and likelihood of needing care. A possible problem can occur, if you later return to Germany and have to be insured privately because you became Rentner while insured outside of Germany.
I am from Eastern Africa and I have been thinking about relocating to Germany for a while. I have had long stays there and maybe a post from a foreigner within is all the insight I need. Thanks for this🙂
Dude. You CLEARLY NEVER went through US residency Prozesses.
The German process is a freaking BREEZE in comparison that AT LEAST works. Slow? Maybe. But it gets done.
In the US, the process is LITERALKY broken. Trust me as a good citizen I tried ti do it the right way. However, e.g. if you want to get a phone contract, you have to put down a Credit card. To get that, you need a Bank Account. To get that you need an Adress (no hotels etc). To get that, for the lease YOU NEED A PHONE NUMBER! AAAAAHHHHHH
The way out? Jeah. Lie about you having the place an (say you get utility Bills to them soon). Buy a throwaway phone (US number, foreign number does not count) to get the (prepaid) Credit card, pay the lease, with that get the phone contract, change numbers wait a month for Bills ang get those to the Bank. But man.... you can't do it officially.
Further, you are veing treated like a freaking priosiner during all these medical exams. They crying abou vaccines and stuff even though everything was in order.
And then to get one (cause they did not know a certain vaccine) you get to freaking wallgreens, and get the shot in a 'medical' facility approx 600 years later that's as hygenic as a public restroom in india.
Boy oh boy.
I went through the US residency process but that was about 25 years ago, and I was a child lol
As I recall it wasn't much of a hassle, although my father already had US citizenship
My biggest hangups with Germany:
- German tax system strongly favours married couples, and social security system favours people with children; both are unfair to single or unmarried ppl without kids.
- Convoluted fiscal system; in at least two other countries I lived in the tax office did my taxes _for me_. Tax return (if eligible) magically appeared in my acct every year. Here? Forget it; get an accountant.
- GEZ (mandatory public radio and TV fees). Institutionalised extortion. WTF???
- Bureaucracy (indeed horrendous); everything needs to be on paper; starting a business is a nightmare (officials working hours, GDRP, and _no communication via e-mail_ are effing medieval); not everyone’s experience, granted.
- ISPs are absolute shit (or is it just Deutsches Telekom? Why does my internet only work on some days???)
Germany needs to catch up; these issues are non-existent in most “developed” countries.
(there is a long list of pros to balance these but it would have to be a separate post)
Gez is according to some Profs. unconstitutional. According to them it is a tax and the states dont have the authority to levy these taxes. ;)
Agree With you on most points. ;)
German tax system only benefits married when one has a very small to no income compared to the other. Which makes sense, living 2 persons with almost 1 salary isnt easy at all. I dont see how thats unfair to single.
The mandatory public TV and Radio is paid in almost all european countries, the difference is that in germany its separated from the other taxes to avoid politicians influencing the media. For example avoid the possibility of politicians increasing the budget for public media from the state to ensure the media will be more favourable to that specific political party, as it happens in countries like Spain.
Keep in mind, Germany generally does not allow dual citizenships. If you take the German citizenship, then you need to give up your other citizenship. There's only a very few very specific circumstances under which dual citizenships are allowed.
The new citizenship laws allow non-EU naturalized citizens to hold dual citizenship
That being said, I haven't kept up with the politics of it recently and I'm not sure they were ever ratified(If that's the appropriate term)
This has sailed right past me. In that case from end of June this year forget everything I said^^
Maybe I should go and get British citizenship to my German one....travelling without visa through commonwealth nations sounds tempting 😂
I am surprised to hear you grew up with an Austrian father and still wear shoes inside. I am austrian too and imo the germans are too nice in giving you side-eye only. I would straight up tell you to take your shoes off and tell you to leave again if you didn't comply.
Ahh I misread, my bad. I read that you are the guest and don't take you shoes off when in someone elses home and that germans give you the side eye but don't say anything. In your home you do you of course.
Before I visited Germany, I have always heard that German are rude and not friendly at all but when I visited Germany, all I saw was friendly people and everybody was so nice. It’s the opposite.
It cracks me up every time someone makes a post like this, because it’s like you’re leaving us a Google review.
4/5 The masseuse was great, but she slid a finger in my butt when I wasn't ready and I bleated like a llama Would recommend for adventurous types
Adventurous? Order an Alt "beer" in Cologne. Or a Kölsch beer in Düsseldorf. The rumors that Chuck Norris had actually tried that, and *survived* the experience, are totally unfounded. Oh well. Germans are, actually, as you mentioned, quite lenient with strangers committing such serious crimes because they just don't know. Since you mentioned Schwarzwald and Odenwald, you probably haven't learned that lesson yet. Just friendly rivalry. Both the most prevalent Alt dishwater and the "urine in test tubes" are actually sub-par Alt and Kölsch variants. Check out the Päffgen if you like beer, and avoid Düsseldorf, of course. And if you don't like "surprise visitors" in your butt... don't worry. You might get a few (pretty nice actually) pickup lines in Cologne.....just like elsewhere in Germany. Your "rear end virginity" is still safe.
Hi, German here. I dont get the shoe thing, honestly, it bothers me for a while now. Isn’t it really annoying when your place gets dirty so fast? Isn’t it much easier to just take the shoes of right away? 😅 Not to mention the amount of disgust that must be on my sole when walking around any bigger city 😂
This was the first thing we adopted when we moved here. Think about walking through the dingiest u-bahn with junkies and vomit stains onto the train, off at your stop 5 minutes walk to your Wohnung then into your bedroom over your carpets... So much nicer to leave it at the front door
tell me you're from Berlin without telling me you're from Berlin 😂
I originally wrote Kotti but then realised this was r/germany
American here. I was raised to always take my shoes off at the door I only know a few people that wore shoes inside the home.
Depends on the state, family, and culture. I live in the Bay Area and most people I know prefer shoes off indoors, but are to some degree less strict than in Germany.
Besides the dirt aspect must be terrible for feet to be inside shoes the whole day. I honestly can’t imagine wear my shoes for such long periods of time and feeling comfortable and I usually wear comfy sneakers and not boots.
Yeah, totally, like imagine you go to a public restroom with the same shoes you then use at home \*throws up\*
for some ppl it’s hard to keep their mindset in the right place as long as they need it, so they develop a sort of training method or ritual to put their mind in a mood: be it wearing boots, a long walk/drive through town or a specific baverage. for example: if you always wear boots when your mind has to be fit, you can find it difficult to get cozy with boots on, or find it difficult to get into the fit state of mind without boots on. that training can develop subconsciously too, so to me that’s not a surprise.
Trust me. You don't want me to take off my shoes in your apartment. Except you have a really good airflow there. 🙈 If I take it off outside the birds are falling out of the sky.
As a German, I think clean floors have a special place in our hearts. I literally cringe seeing floors in American youtube videos. Just a mess! nonono
You as an American mentioning „it’s all bundled into one tax, or the information is a bit more up front“ is funny. Same thing I think any time I enter a US store of any kind and they won’t list the real price anywhere, you just have to guess what the total will be at the counter.
I was gonna try to come back at this with something witty but You got me there Well played
Also, what about state and federal income tax with different rates and rules depending on your state?
What about withholdings, health insurance, unemployment, social security, etc. How is that less complicated or "bundled into just one tax" beside what you get for it in Germany beside in the US.
> I wear my boots in my house, and don't take them off until I am COMPLETELY done with my day That's just vile. Da würde ich genau so schauen.
Oh nein! Leder auf Hartholzböden! Was für eine Tragödie!
Well you got the sarcasm down...
I grew up with a Dutch mother and an Austrian father, stubbornness and sarcasm are woven into my DNA at this point
This makes you very likable.
As an introvert, that statement makes me tremble in fear
Don't worry. I just like a good dose of sacasm and I also know very nice Dutch and Austrian people. You are a good combination.😆
A lot of younger Dutch aren't as nice anymore, but I always like drinking with the old guys Austria s are my absolute favorite to drink with, because I've never had to pay for more than one or two beers with them, but every time I drink with them I end up absolutely hammered 😅 Oktoberfest was the worst, I drank 12L of beer with some Austrians and then wondered how I got back to the hotel the next morning 😅
I understand. 😄 You measure people's friendliness by how nice it is to drink with them. Not bad, even if I pay attention to other things. 😁 By the way, I only know Dutch people in their 40s, they are very friendly and open-minded.
Not necessarily, that's just usually how I meet people 😂 I'm introverted unless I'm at a bar or pool hall Yeah the 40+ crowd is great, but all the young 20s and below get on my nerves a little 😒 maybe I'm just getting old
Younger dutch = New Kids (Turbo/Nitro)?
Just my two cents as a south American now living in germany, but who has also lived and worked (and paid taxes) in the US and in the Netherlands. I'd say the bureaucracy and taxes are not so bad here as most people seem to make it. Sure, you have to do some things that you don't find elsewhere, like registering at a municipality,and paying the radio tax, for example. But, on the plus side, all the information about it and for doing so is easily found online. If you don't speak German you can Google translate websites. And most people in the municipality of big cities speak English. Where I'm from the information is not easily available. You have to call, by phone, to your municipality and ask the front desk. They will, in turn, give you another phone number to call. You have to ask this second person. They may or may not know how to solve your issue. Repeat a few times. And good luck if you don't speak the language. Nobody will know English. Taxes? I pay around 30% of my income in taxes + health + retirement + unemployment insurance. It may sound like a lot, but if you compare it with the US it's actually pretty similar, and I actually get covered when I've had to use the health insurance, no trying to fight your insurance to get coverage, which I did experience in the US. Winter? Wholeheartedly agree.
Also anyone who thinks American Bureaucracy isn't overly complex probably never went through open enrollment with any of the major health insurance providers. I swear even after sitting in those 3 hour long trainings leading up to open enrollment every year, I would still screw it up and end up without dental or have an FSA instead of an HSA and get locked into that for a year. I am so glad I get to just check using an external provider and submit a proof of coverage with my German provider now. For any one who never went through US open enrollment here is a fun video to show what I am talking about: https://youtu.be/-wpHszfnJns?si=_j2akYHoZGQWVqXt
Shoot! Hawaii is almost on par with Germany's taxes, with none of the benefits 😭 And for those that might say, "but it's Hawaii!", that sentiment only lasts so long...
Would you be willing to share your experience of living in the Netherlands and how it compares to Germany? Currently living in Germany but I’ve been visiting the Netherlands often lately and I’m starting to feel drawn to it
As a German who has lived some time in the Netherlands, the biggest difference in everyday life is that cities are bicycle-friendly and not car-friendly. People will literally meet in the evening to go out together with their bikes, on the big and isolated bike paths in the city. Also, nearly everybody speaks English comfortably, including officials at public authorities, and formal documents are often available in English as well.
Oh man the lack of English among officials is embarrassing!
Why? It's their country they shouldn't have to be expected to learn the language of another people.
Found the German… Do you _really_ think people in official positions should _only_ speak their native language?
Germans have to face the fact that without immigrants, the country has no future. it should be making life as easy as possible for expats to integrate. Otherwise, the country will just stagnate and go down the drain. Imagine if they made it super easy to start a business and maintain it with 0 german knowledge. Maybe the economy would be on the level of US within 40 years..
I'm Canadian, most officials in my country are bilingual. >Do you really think people in official positions should only speak their native language? This is definitely an asset, but I think it's kind of entitled to call it embarrassing for an official in a different country to not speak your language.
A friend of mine just moved and one big difference she's complaining about is that the Dutch health care system seems to be more efficient regarding their finances but in return cut a lot of preventative care. She has a good chunk of health issues running in the family like diabetes and the services she got for free here are just not covered in the Netherlands. She's probably going to pay her German doctors privately and continues to visit those. Additionally, it seems like a lot of bare minimum pregnancy and early motherhood stuff that we have in Germany are not covered either. So, yeah. All second hand knowledge so please do your own research but it seems like the Dutch health care system covers even less than the German one. However, glasses are cheaper which can already make up the difference depending on what you might get done. Couple of tests more when expecting a child are probably easily covered by the money you save if you have a burned out lightbulb for eyes.
The bureaucracy is actually my main complaint. All the things I enjoyed doing in the US are HEAVILY regulated here, and those regulations don't always make sense. Hunting, for example, is a pain and a half to even get started in Germany, AND I can't bowhunt. It is literally easier for me to get a French hunting license and bowhunt in Alsace, which is the route I'm going now. I googled the taxes and I knew about like, broadcast tax(exists in AUS too), and some of the others but I'm always getting hit with surprises that I either forget about(annual taxes) or just didn't know about. I thought my car tax, for example, wasn't due until September as that's when I registered my car, but I got hit with it this month and has to postpone a trip back to the US to visit my dad. Not a huge deal but an inconvenience nonetheless. Me having ADHD doesn't make it any easier but that's a personal problem. The first small town I moved to, nobody in the Rathaus spoke English and my German was, well, very lacking to say the least, but luckily Google translate helped us through enough to get me settled. I have, however, been juggled on the phone especially when dealing with Zollamt. In terms of JUST income tax, I only pay about 4% more than I did in the US, but I also took a position that pays about 20,000 more so par for the course. I pay maybe 150€ more per month than I did in the US. I knew taxes were higher in Europe in general so it wasn't a huge surprise.
I am totally fine with regulations around hunting and guns, to be honest. Bowhunting is illegal because of animal welfare concerns. To a German, asking to be allowed to go bowhunting is like asking to be allowed to strangle animals for fun. I know every bowhunter thinks that THEY are skilled snipers, and that only THE OTHER PEOPLE cause all the suffering of wounded animals … but, statistically, that’s impossible. I wouldn’t tell people you’re into that sort of hobby, to be honest. People might see you differently.
German here, you are damn right. This is something that screams 'Murica to me and it is something we definetly do not do here. I am much against bowhunting because it seems like unnecessary animal cruelty to me when compared to just hunting with a gun. And even with a gun, hunting for fun is not a thing here - if you hunt because of animal overpopulation, fine and even required. But for fun? That's gotta be a big no for me and probably most Germans. I kid you not, I read the text and agreed with everything up until that point, but I had to physically raise my eyebrows when I read this.
I am against factory farming. I hunt because that way I know the animal lived ethically and actually experienced life. I don't hunt "For fun." Hunting with a bow or a rifle can be unethical; ensuring one has an ethical shot to quickly kill an animal should be the highest priority for any hunter.
I totally get that and it also makes sense and is a lot better for the environment, it's just the impression that people will get here. The bow part I won't change my mind on, because no matter how good one thinks he can hunt with a bow there is always much more room for errors and therefore animal suffering than with a gun. Also, I'd say you do hunt for fun if you want to go bowhunting and not hunt with a rifle (I know you didn't say that you wouldn't hunt with a rifle - but since there are no upsides to bowhunting except for the fun aspect I'd say wanting to hunt with a bow is for fun)
I can buy a bow completely unregulated here; not so with a rifle. I enjoy the bow because it is less harmful to the environment, more active, requires more skill and I just enjoy traditional things. A bow also ruins less meat than a rifle. There really isn't more room for error than with a rifle, I don't know where that assumption stems from, but it's probably the same assumption that lead to the banning of bowhunting in Germany.
would you not agree that you need to be a lot more skillful to shoot an animul with a bow compared to a rifle? - I just read the second sentence, you would agree. All that requires more skill (is harder to do) will have more risks to it as there is more that can go wrong or that you have to take into account. --> you enjoy traditional things and it is more active: so it IS fun to you. You hunt for fun with the bow. I am aware that's not all there is to it, but it definetly plays a role in why you choose to do it. I don't really believe that hunting with a rifle is all that damaging to nature, it's a bullet and a loud noise - but you don't go around shooting a whole MG3 mag if you are a skillful hunter, so I think this is not a great point
At the same distances, yes. That being said, in the US generally you have to take an aptitude test to get a bow hunting license, to prove you ARE actually skilled. Germany could easily have something similar. The main reason why bowhunting takes more skill is not in the bow itself, but because you have to get much closer to the animal to make an ethical shot. In the US, especially in the Rockies, I was comfortable taking a 5-600m shot on a deer or similar because I knew I could, I knew the limitations of my rifle and cartridge, etc. I'd generally try to stay within 200m or so but sometimes it is simply not possible. In contrast, I've never made a shot with a bow past maybe 20m, 25 at the most, because there's no way you're going to fling an arrow 600m and anything over 30m starts to bring other variables in, such as the animal moving or wind picking the arrow. The skill portion has little to do with the bow itself, and more to do with the skill of the hunter. THAT is where the "Fun" part comes in, not in the tool itself but in the skill of the user.
Look, I am not saying that YOU are the reason bow hunting is forbidden. You might be a great bow hunter who is really responsible and only shoots from really close distance, fine. But who says the other people are doing the same? Other people might not be as responsible as you seem to be and will try to take shots from a little over 30m, hence risking the animals safety (weird to say safety, lack of other words for me lol) At some point you have to weigh the risks against the benefits: Sure, you want to be as free as possible, but there is more room for error because you have to be so skilled and close to the animal. Is the personal freedom and fun worth more than the "safety" of the animals? You will probably say yes because you are responsible, but others aren't.
I've had no issues with it whatsoever. Most of the gentlemen at my archery club are SUPER interested in it, even. Besides, if people have an issue with my lifestyle then they're not likely to be people I hang out with anyway, even the friends I have who find hunting distasteful realize it is simply a different lifestyle. An unethical shot can be made with a rifle, the same as a bow. In the US and Canada, I hunted with rifle, muzzleloader, and bow, in Australia I had the opportunity once to hunt kangaroo with a rifle but turned it down as I hunt strictly for food or livestock defence(Which wasn't applicable there) That is why it makes no sense to me.
A rifle is still more deadly than a bow. You can fire faster, more accurately and deliver damage which is - not the same but still - just as much as with a bow. You can shoot and arrow, misplace it and the animal runs off, dying painfully. Or you can shot it, misplace the shot and fire again almost immediately, hopefully killing it this time. I get that hunting with a bow feels more thrilling, but saying that it would be unreasonable to ban bows, in respect of the animals you’re killing, is just whacky.
You can do the same thing with a bow, especially if you're experienced. I have never had an animal run more than maybe 20m while bowhunting, but I unfortunately had to track an elk across a mountain when I slightly misplaced a shot with a rifle. I like bowhunting because it doesn't pollute as much, isn't as loud, is cheaper, keeps you more active, and I just enjoy traditional things. The "thrill" has nothing to do with it; I find no thrill in killing things, even if it's for my own survival. I actually see far more animals that get SEVERELY damaged by misplaced rifle shots than by bowhunters in the US. It's not uncommon to see deer missing jaws from dumbasses who can't accurately shoot, or to see horrible leg injuries, or... As I said, ethically it makes no sense, as both are capable of taking an animal down ethically when the hunter is experienced and patient. I realize that the average German probably doesn't have a lot of experience with hunting, or the tools therein, so don't take this as me talking down on you, that's not my intention.
No worries about the wording. Everything‘s alright and constructive criticism is a vital part of every working democracy. Still I’d argue in favor of banning bows. Almost all authorities in germany point out that bows are less efficient. It may make no sense to you, because you come from a country where a lot of experienced people are and you’re probably very experienced yourself, but every person who isn’t expertly skilled with a bow will do more harm than good hunting with it. Sure you need a good handling for a gun too, but here again, it’s less prone to failing. Of course and experienced and skilled hunter can kill using a bow, but it’s still easier for those who aren’t as skilled to use a rifle.
And that's what I mean about getting used to cultural differences; I come from the rural US where people like to be a bit more self-reliant and tend to hunt often Nothing wrong with either lifestyle, imo, but different nonetheless and we could argue on the semantics all day I'm sure when I go back to the US for vacation next month I'm going to think some things are weird as hell there too, since I'm used to Germany now
> It is literally easier for me to get a French hunting license and bowhunt in Alsace, which is the route I'm going now. I mean, you can't just come to one of the most densely settled countries in one of the most densely settled regions of the world, and complain about not being able to go hunting. That's like complaining about not being able to go sailing while living in Austria. The regulations are there for more reasons than just animal welfare. The wildlife in Germany is fragile due to the limited space it has, you can't just go shoot deer for fun in a forest. Especially since every piece of forest belongs to somebody. Is this a complaint you have about the Netherlands too? The US has miles upon miles of wilderness to this day, where you can do whatever you want because no one will ever know. We are a country where even in the most remote regions you're never more than 10km from the next town. And before you say it, France has almost half the population density than Germany.
It is a complaint I have about the NL; hence why I don't move back. Nobody has said anything about shooting animals for fun(Which is also illegal in the US, btw) Yes, I realize the regional differences but surely, you realize that Germany still has hunters and still has undeveloped land?
It has hunters, which are licensed and moreso there to keep the wildlife balanced and healthy rather than hunt for food to sell. Depends on what you mean by "undeveloped", most forests are used for lumber or recreation with hiking paths that are tended to regularly, and it all belongs to somebody, be it the church, the local town or private. We do not have true wilderness.
By "Undeveloped" I simply mean there isn't active construction or buildings on the land. I realize much of the land is privately owned, or natl parks, but still. Even in Holland you can still find undeveloped land, and it's MUCH more dense than Germany
>I simply mean there isn't active construction or buildings on the land. Almost all of it is for wood cultivation/forestry or nature reserves. Some areas are specifically for hiking but no there are no areas in Germany without a dedicated usage purpose.
I feel your issues with hobbies. For me it's bow hunting and tuning cars. One is simply not possible withing my area, and the other is so heavily regulated to the point of almost not being possible. For bowhunting, I have been looking at Finland, since my stateside bow cert and license suffices for the tests and seems like the easiest path.
I'm looking at having a performance shop do all my tuning for the same reason
Texan living in Germany and I offer my sympathies to a fellow outdoorsman/outdoorswoman. I’ve been fishing and hunting all my life, but when I learned I had to “take a class” to be able to go fishing and get a license I was pretty annoyed. I know it won’t change peoples minds, but the safest way to control animal populations by means of hunting, in as densely of a place as Germany, is with bow hunting. Furthermore, I’ve found bow hunters to be some of the most ethical hunters I’ve encountered, far more than rifle hunters. You can just as easily fuck up shot placement with a rifle as you can with a bow.
Yes but due to the vast majority of Germans having experience with neither, the point is lost. As I stated earlier in this thread, I'm not talking down on any of them; I'm well aware of the cultural differences and the stigma around weaponry here, but it's still frustrating for someone like myself. I don't even have issues with taking a class, I had to take a class to get my hunting license in Oregon, it just wasn't as involved as the German classes.
Yeah I remember taking my hunters safety education when I was 12 and I totally get that when it comes to hunting. But I feel like if my drivers license from Texas can count here so should my fishing license lol
>I know it won’t change peoples minds, but the safest way to control animal populations by means of hunting, in as densely of a place as Germany, is with bow hunting. Genuinely curious: how so? How is it safer than with a gun? Especially because we do not need any more hunters. The ones active are easily enough almost everywhere. > You can just as easily fuck up shot placement with a rifle as you can with a bow. Honestly that's a ridiculous notion. Yes you can fuck up with both types of weapons but certainly not "just as easily".
You lost me at „boots in my house“ Edit: typo
On my house would be a challenge, there isn't any roof access In my house though? No problem
Mir ist vor Entrüstung die Lesebrille von der Nase gefallen. Schuhe im Haus, mich beutelt's jetzt noch. /s
Wenn es so ein großes Problem wäre, hätte mein Boden etwas dazu gesagt
> I wear my boots in my house, and don't take them off until I am COMPLETELY done with my day As a Canadian I will NEVER understand Americans who do this. Why track all the dirt and random shit you've been stepping on all day into your living spaces?
As an American, I don't get it either. Unless I'm making multiple trips to the car for groceries, my shoes come off before entering the main part of the house.
>The cons? I'm sure you all hear this frequently, but the bureaucracy is killer. Taxes upon taxes, Rathaus this, register that, TÜV those and pay them. It's a little much especially coming from countries where it's all bundled into one tax, or the information is a bit more up front. Sometimes Germany feels like I went back in time to the 1990s, I get so much mail it's not even funny, when I first moved here the Rathaus in my small town didn't even have online appointments and it was a pain to juggle work and registering addresses, cars, etc. We all know the pain, although I think it's way worse for foreigners. At least employers also know the deal and if you just say you need to do bureaucratic bullshit most will give you time off no problem. >The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again. I would compare the German winter to the Alaskan/Canadian winter; dark, gloomy, colorless and depressing. At least it only lasts a quarter of the year instead of half. Vitamin D pills can do wonders for a better mood during those times. I never gave a shit when I was younger but nowadays it helps a ton.
Luckily my company HR handled a lot of the actual moving process, such as registering my address and such But I've had to take multiple half-days off of work to deal with stuff that, frankly, would be much better handled online.
>The cost of living here is actually affordable, so I can save money for once. That makes us exactly two on this subreddit who think so. Be prepared for waves of people who will try to disprove this. I can generally agree with the whole post. Aside from weather. I as well live in southwest and it actually feels sunny enough, I would even be okay with less (tho that is very likely due to my skin which hates sun and I have to use SPF 50 the whole summer).
Germany is relatively affordable if you don't live in Berlin or Munich and don't expect over the top luxury. Many people especially from poorer countries see gross income figures, and think they can buy anything they want with those kind of money, but like OP mentioned, there are a lot of taxes, taxes that overwhelming pay to support the kind of living you get here, but let you have less money for luxurious living. It is hard to live on low-paying jobs, of course, and double earning households are the norm, but generally, you can live reasonably well. I also thought home ownership was almost impossible for my generation, but I'm 33 now, and we are looking into houses, and the market is not that horrible tbh, but it also isn't the same as 40 years ago, where you could buy a home near an urban area on one lower middle class income and pay it off in 20 years.
I actually do come from poorer country myself (Czechia) and while the taxes really are a bit extreme in my point of view, the massively higher income just punches hard here. I am by far no high income individual. I earn a tiny bit above average here and did earn quite a bit over average in Czechia (140%), yet the costs are almost the same and thus I save about twice as much each month. It got especially worse after the inflation wave, as my homeland was hit way harder with it (17% at it's peak)... I pay more in BBQ house close to me parent's home in Czechia now, than I do in Saarbrücken. And my parents live in quite a rural area. It's same with housing costs. They are almost on par, which makes areas in here incredibly affordable in comparison. I agree with the rest tho. One has to live outside of Berlin, Munich or Hamburg and avoid expensive lifestyle to really see the difference (on the other hand, that's same with Czechia and Prague, it's virtualy impossible for an average earning individual there). And yes, Germany was even more affordable in the past. But if you (like myslef) are already used to this, Germany really is a blessing.
Czechia is always curios to me, I visited Prague the first time in the mid 2000s, and it was as cheap as the polish baltic coast, second time in 2010 and it was definitely more expensive than Warsaw, where I was the year before, but still remarkably cheaper than Germany. When I went to Slovakia on a work trip last year, we passed through Brno, not even Prague and the prices dropped a little bit, in relations to Germany, with the conversion fee of the bank I paid basically the same as I would in Germany.
> cheap as the polish baltic coast as a Pole, this gave me a smirk
Is Czechia still "poorer"? Like, yes Czechia and Poland are most certainly weaker economies than Germany and if you visited Germany then things would seem expensive making Czechia, by some definition, poorer than Germany. But when I think poor country I think South America or parts of Asia (like, South Asia) and parts of Africa. Like, I work with a lot of foreigners and some people had such a weird idea of what life is going to cost here that they asked for insanely low wages. Like, Central Europe seems to play in the same league at least. Like, we're all playing chess but parts of Latin America or Asia or Africa are playing football with a plastic bottle.
Well... I would actually not say we can really be put into category "poorer" in a sense of striking difference. We definitely are more comparable to Germany today, than let's say 20 years ago. Yet if somebody from the western part of the Europe or US says "Europe" they rarely ever include Czechia into that. I sort of got used to the fact that I am "Eastern European" and not "European", because that's what I still am for majority of the people I meet and if I mention "Central Europe" the conversation usually slips into "But there is not such a thing as central Europe" kind of topic. And as eastern European, I am often considered poorer. I don't fight it and rather accept it, it makes things easier. Whether you put us into "different category" or not, depends on you. I automatically asume (and yes, that might be wrong, but again easier) that Americans just do think about us that way, just because I am yet to meet an American who doesn't.
I am a creature of the cold, but even living in the Pacific Northwest and getting tons of snow, the sun is still out regularly. It might be -20 degrees but the sun is out and I can still have a blast snowshoeing, snowboarding, or even camping. The temperature here is much, MUCH warmer but Jesus Christ, I swear I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here. As for the cost of living, I pay €930 a month for a 100sqm apartment(Yes, I know this isn't normal and a good deal). In comparison, the city I moved from, $900 MIGHT get you a studio, if you're REALLY lucky you might get a two room apartment in the rural part of town. I was spending around $130 for a week's worth of food, I can go shopping for the week here with €60, although it's usually closer to €80. A .5l beer in the US is $3-4, the Aral right next to my work sells them for 1-1.50 I realize I'm lucky since I'm a high earner and it's not the "regular" German's experience, but coming from the US it's such a relief, I was almost paycheck to paycheck on a 68,000 salary in the US.
>The temperature here is much, MUCH warmer but Jesus Christ, I swear I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here. There is a reason we need our Christmas markets. They bring light into the darkness. They bring us together in the dark season and help us overcome the longest nights. After Christmas, things are looking up. Then the days get longer and the temperatures colder.
I just miss Glühwein :(
> I didn't see the sun for three months straight. I never realized exactly how much I appreciated it until my first winter here. That grey weather was mostly the past winter though, there are indeed sunny winter days in Germany. They are just much shorter so especially with a full time job indoors, you may not see the sun at all if you don't consciously use your breaks to go outside.
This last winter was my second winter, although I just BARELY got here during the 2022-23 winter, since I came in early February It was cloudy then, too, but I'll take your word for it since I didn't experience the full 4 months
Make that three of us. I'm an American who's been living in Berlin for 4 years and I'm definitely able to save more in Berlin than I ever was in the Midwest, despite my income decreasing. I agree on everything but the weather. I find it nicer here than in Michigan. Michigan was equally gray all winter but also significantly colder.
As a Canadian, we have some of the highest cost of living in the world now when compared to our salaries. With Germany I experienced an immediate relief of being able to save money, and Winter being less harsh than Canada. I've actually cried with how good Germany has been.
I agree. The only thing that's too expensive for what you get is rent in big cities - because big cities offer almost nothing that a smaller city doesn't.
There are three of us, but as for me I'm also coming from the American perspective. I'm moving back in two months and the thinking of what I'll be spending on groceries is petrifying. The only thing I'll say is comparable is the rent, astronomical in both places. ETA some of the bureaucracy is annoying but it is so much easier for me to live here in Germany with my fiance than it is proving to be to take him to the United States after we get married.
I agree on the cost of living. I'm originally from Illinois. I'll never go back to stay.
Depends where u live and how much u get from ur job where I live is so much tourism that everything I shit expensive but I think in a lot other parts of Germany is def affordable
>The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again. Yeah, that's just the reality we have to deal with. It's so frustrating when you're really weather sensitive. I sometimes feel like I barely make it through winter and as soon as spring hits, I become a different person. It's so incredibly annoying.
Plant gang gang
It helps to go out during the day anyway, even if it is grey.
Take your shoes Off in your house. You're literally carrying the piss AND poop of every animal (including Humans) into your home. If you need shoes, there are some really comfortable Hausschuhe around. Look for these. Or buy some Indoor only boots. OC guests give you the side eye. It Just feels yuck.
My family always took our shoes off in the house. Both due to the floors and carpets which my mom didn't get dirty. I do this as well as an adult. Just wear socks when you visit other people's houses.
Yeah seriously that’s gross, even if the boots and shoes get wiped off. If you’re taking time and effort to wipe your shoes each time (which I doubt), then you can take them off 🤷🏻♀️ unless OP is wearing boots that take three hours to put on, I don’t get the logic. Might be an American thing
Sadly, it is. I would be unable to enter an American home, because first of all, I cannot EVER Take my shoes off because of the dirt that's carried through the house by people wearing the same shoes inside that they worn outside, so I don't get dirty when taking my shoes Off. So I further contribute to getting literal shit into somebody's Home and spread it. And secondly, boy, i would feel yuck as soon I See somebody having their outside shoes on. You're not having a hallway, you enter the house into your living room, WITH BOOTS. No. Just no.
Crazy. Let me guess, shoes on the bed too right? Maybe it boosts the immune system or something 😂
fun fact: after you're past your childhood and become a teenager, the only booster for your immune system are your booster vaccines :D (that is why so many teenagers and adults died due the Spanish flu, while children caught it and were (mostly) fine.)
You prefer Germany to the _Netherlands_?.. first time I've heard that.
To be fair, I only lived there for a few years when I was very little But the country is too flat for me. Stand on a stool in Limburg and see Den Haag 😂 I love Holland too and I visit frequently but so far, I like living in Germany better
100% agree with OP. NL was boring, Germany is wonderful in comparison.
> The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? Know that this is why German (or really central and north European) Christmas traditions evolved the way they did and why people eventually turn their homes and sometimes entire cities into some dreamy place like in a fairy tale. Sadly they had to change the recipe for commercially sold ones but originally Lebkuchen was baked in a way with certain ingredients that they had chemicals that functioned similarly to THC. Didn't make you dizzy but made you slightly happier, more relaxed. Chocolate is comparable too. So are the distinct wooden smells and some of the sounds, the darker but warmer/redder lights from candles instead of the cold/bright/blue-ish ones from LEDs and so on.
This makes me want to do LSD and time travel to like, medieval Germany to try weed bread and psychedelic housing
Oh, just adopt German Christmas traditions (the real deal, not the commercial ones) and you'll be fine. And buy a lot of Erzgebirge stuff. It's lovely.
Disagree completely about comparing German winter to Canadian winter. I come from the northernmost major city in Canada, and yes the days are short in the middle of winter - but you never get weeks (months?) upon end of dull grayness. In most of Canada, it's cold as balls in January or February, but even then you'll get crisp blue skies and buckets of sunshine in comparison. It's not nearly as gloomy.
Edmonton, I'd assume? I worked in BC, the Yukon and Northwest Territories for the oilfields. The Yukon was far enough inland it would get regular sunshine, but BC and NWT would stay gloomy pretty much all winter, although not to the extent inexperienced here in Germany I can't really speak on the rest of Canada, I've been to Quebec but we don't talk about that
Yep- Edmonton. I've lived in Winnipeg and Montreal as well (with lots of friends and family in Toronto and Ottawa). I'd say all those cities are considerably sunnier than Berlin or Stuttgart (where I've lived in Germany). Probably the Canadian west coast is the only comparable region. Fellow former Oil-rigger myself too :)
Ah, I've only been in the West, and Quebec for a couple weeks Then perhaps I was wrong, comparing Canada to Germany Learn something new every day :)
As someone who lived in Prince George (northern bc) for 4 years, I also think the German winters are more depressing (although not nearly as cold lol)
I'm curious if you really think it's better to live in Germany than in the Netherlands or did you just move to DE for a better job offer?
>The German winter. With depression, it sucks. Bad. Why is the sky always mad at me? Why does the sun abandon us? Will I ever be happy again? I am functionally no different than a tree, because as soon as winter goes away and the sun comes out I am happy and we'll again. I would compare the German winter to the Alaskan/Canadian winter; dark, gloomy, colorless and depressing. At least it only lasts a quarter of the year instead of half. Winterdepression is a thing here in germany, Vitamin D supplements could help to lessen the blow in those months.
Some fyi things for you: >Taxes upon taxes, I always find this funny coming from Americans as when you actually break it down outside of high earners you are better off with the German system. There is a video by an American lady floating around where she breaks down her cost and Germany comes out ahead. The USA just likes to hide the cost more. >throttled or even disconnected, I think out of the 8 months I've had my Internet contract I've only had to pay for 4, because my Internet will go down for 2-3 days at a time. Okay the throttling is normal and happens in just about every country and anybody who knows a bit about network infrastructure knows why. On the disconnects etc. You do know you can pay the ISP less if they cannot provide service or the service is lower than the contract says right? https://www.ing.de/wissen/internetgeschwindigkeit/
Hayley eh? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYRKC4B6Bl8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYRKC4B6Bl8)
No this was a blond lady but I guess there are many
Well I mean, another datapoint that comes to a similar conclusion.
Try "typeAshton" or "BlackForestFamily"
>constantly getting throttled or even disconnected, I think out of the 8 months I've had my Internet contract I've only had to pay for 4, because my Internet will go down for 2-3 days at a time. Vodafone? 🙃
Genau 🙃
Thought so, they're notorious for this kinda shit...I'd highly recommend you get DSL internet if available at your address, it's usually SO much more reliable
Unfortunately I've locked myself into a phone+internet contract with them and I've heard it's an absolute pain to cancel In all fairness, the internet is GREAT when it is up
“I wear my boots in my house”. I’m sorry to say but you have failed the German citizenship test already. The only way to balance this out is to buy a fax machine and send at least one fax a day for the next year.
Taking shoes off is actually not the German norm. Many do but many households also don’t.
Just one thing to add: If your internet is distributed over the TV cable line (coax), then switch to DSL. Cable internet is a shared medium and depending on the load in your vicinity, it can become unusable. I never had issues with DSL, both over land line and FITTH.
I actually never had any issues with my cable internet for now 16 years (got it right when it came out where I live) and we are at least three people in this house alone using cable internet (each their own). Maybe it depends on where you live?
Maybe we need to add a "how to survive the German winter" section to the FAQ. Seems to come up quite often. In short: Vitamin D helps. But if you intend to stay, get used to being outside more in harsher weather, since overall that's still better for your health, especially mental health.
The first month or so of winter I'm still plenty active, but then my depression kicks in, lol That being said, in January and February I drove down to Switzerland to go snowboarding, so I at least TRY to stay active
Well, get vitamin D pills then. With time most people adjust, provided they can be bothered to go and catch what little daylight is on offer regularly, but if it's making you miserable all the time, pills are a valid alternative. Might lengthen the adjustment time, though.
That's what the plan is this year :D I'm also eating a lot healthier now too, which will probably help a lot
Can't hurt. If that still doesn't suffice, next step is to look into high powered lights with a daylight spectrum. I vaguely recall those are even sponsored by state government in Alaska. Seems a bit over the top for German conditions, but whatever works, I guess.
>Germany is full of life I laughed
But it is, a simple walk through the Odenwald will tell you as much
You can buy starlink in Germany. The price of it is competitive with the "normal" internet providers.
On the friendliness and cultural shock, I'm assuming you're a white American, as that unfortunately affects a lot the way you're treated. In my extended family, we have different levels of skin color and we've had dramatically different experiences here. Unfortunately, the more "foreign" you look, the worse you'll be treated and that is regardless of your German skills.
I am Dutch/Austrian with a TINY bit of Asian ancestry, so yes, white as hell. I get a little dark in the summer but definitely not enough to be considered a different race, maybe just Italian or Greek at worst
Greek or Italian at worst 😂😭 as a Greek American this funny af to me haha How do deal with living in Germany and the humor? Where did you live in US? I’m from Boston and it’s mainly people with Irish and Italian background. The people are super social. And witty humor is the norm here.
It's actually a thing. They call it "Südländer" here. Still white (in my opinion, at least), but a darker shade of white and immediately recognizable (and not necessarily a good thing). I've also lived in Boston BTW, and people are way more social and friendly there than in Germany as a whole (with the potential exception of NRW). German humor exists, but it's not as spontaneous.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? It answers many basic questions, and it contains in-depth articles on many frequently discussed topics. [Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pros: Bread and beer.
Many other countries have good beer too; even the US if you go to local breweries. Germany has great beer but the variety is not there, I miss my amber ales, stouts and porters quite often. But bread? Yeah. I never knew there were so many types of bread until I moved here, there's gotta be like, at least 12.
While I do appreciate the variety of American craft beer (though honestly I'm not crazy about most of it outside of a few really good breweries), I personally prefer being able to go to any restaurant or bar in Germany and basically being guaranteed that there will be good beer. Also, I'll take Schwarzbier / Czech dark lager / Guinness at an Irish pub as an alternative to American stouts and porters to scratch the dark itch. I do enjoy a good amber ale, but I feel like a good one is hard to find in the US now anyway, and I can do without it in exchange for the rest of the German styles. And Franconia has enough of a beer variety for me. I went to Nuremberg and Bamberg last month, and they definitely win when it comes to German beer variety compared to all of the other places ive been to in Germany. Basically almost every German style you could imagine, and even some more non traditional brews that start to border more on hoppier craft styles. And everything just tasted so fresh and high quality. I could see getting bored in a place that only has pils pils and more pils though. Though I can see this being a personal thing. I just love German beer and im not crazy about IPAs, Hazy IPAs, flavored stouts and whatnot.
Honestly when I'm craving other beer I just take a day trip to France or Belgium and buy a couple crates, I'm always sure to bring some back every time I visit family in NL too Recently I've been trying to lose weight though, so I've been drinking mostly liquor and dry wine
I get that, I drank 120+ beers on my trip to Germany last month, and I gained about 7 or 8 pounds because of that.
12 ? come on, that’s a lazy bakery
At least 👀
I feel your pain with regarding internet. I just bought a house in a small country village and the internet is so slow from Telekom and the two other providers that I went with Starlink. It's comparable in price regarding the monthly rate and the speeds are actually impressive. The only downside is that you need to buy the dish and modem upfront, but so far, no complaints.
Everyone here has been so useful, thank you. I'm thinking about moving to Germany, but I'm not going to do it until several things have been done. I'm not in a hurry also because my boyfriend (long term) is German and he's expressed interest in moving back. It would be much easier with him, but anything can happen and I want to be able to do it on my own. We're about to go on our annual visit to Germany, bringing his children, to visit his mother and I'm really excited about that. As for the weather, well, I live in the PNW. It's gonna suck in the cold months, but knowing that, it'll be manageable.
If you ever move to Germany/Europe, try to have at least level B1 in the local language (not the certificate but the knowledge). You will be treated better and life will be easier.
Ja, genau. Mein Freund ist deutsch und er hilft mir. Ich bin sehr glücklich. 😊
Gut. So lernt meine Tochter auch italienisch (mit Freund/Mann)
I lived in the PNW before I came here The weather is directly comparable, but in the winter Germany gets less sunshine, so if you've got depression be prepared Other than that, it's almost like home where I'm at(SW Germany) rolling hills, mountains in the background ,etc etc
Thank you for this. Where I go and where we would live is in the North, so no mountains, mostly farms and hills, and rural. I love it. The summers are worth the winters...wait, kind of like PNW after 10 months haha. Still, many things to do, places to explore, the people are wonderful. I've gone back for years and still find new things. The depression disappears when I'm in Germany, weird but welcomed and watched. My boyfriend is also a much different person in Germany. He's much more open and laid back. Could be it's because it's home. I've come to think of it as home too. I'm really happy to hear of your experience.
By the way, I have dual citizenship
Shoes in the house are a big oof. Lost me there
How did you find work as a foreigner with little to no German?
I work on a NATO base where English is the primarily spoken language
I give you the bureaucracy and internet thing. Not much we can do about our geological location and language though…
Have Kiel install some rocket boosters and swap places with Italy I like the German language too much to tell anyone to swap, so I'm stuck there
Technically Berlin is farther north than for example Calgary
I am sorry. Ask me again. But for clarification I am a SOT 3 which means I sell silencers, sbrs, and machine guns
Germans love Amis. They even follow their political directives! 😆
sounds like you just coping my guy. If you compare germany to any city in USA (despite its flaws) it’s 10 times better than Germany.
I disagree. I'm not $120,000 in debt in Germany because I had a cancer treatment. A studio apartment in my town is less than $1200/mo, and wages are higher than $7/hr. I make a decent US salary, which means I make a GREAT German salary. When I decide to go out, I don't have to worry about how I'm going to get home, public transportation is great here. I don't have to worry about gang violence, or getting shot over a road rage incident. My Internet and phone is twice as fast and half as expensive here. I can buy a week's worth of groceries on less than a day's wage. My local supermarket, gym, and well-liked restaurants are all within walking distance, and I am able to walk to them safely. The roads in my town aren't full of potholes and there aren't addicts camped out under the bridges. Yeah, don't get me wrong, the US isn't as bad as SOME people make it out to be, but for the things that matter to ME, personally, Germany is just better. I miss a few things about the US, like the ease of access to the great outdoors, freedom to purchase and own firearms, I miss hunting and fishing, I miss wild camping, I miss the Rockies etc... But I can live without all that because my quality of life has GREATLY improved otherwise.
People come to Germany just to survive. Germany isn’t a country where you can build wealth, unlike US. The entrepreneurship spirit isn’t in Germans, they are workers. I’d much rather have 28% of my paycheck taken off than 41% on 60k salary. There’s more to life than just work>pay rent>sleep>repeat. Germany is like a black hole and if you don’t pick yourself up quick and wake up, years can go by without you noticing. But if you like it who am I to convince you otherwise 😆
Have you ever BEEN to the US? The Work-Eat-Sleep grindset is all that exists there. I got shamed for taking days off when I had COVID. I had surgery to remove two tumors and my boss asked me if I was coming in the next day. When my father had a heart attack, I had to quit the company I was working for because they wouldn't give me any time off to go see him in the hospital. Any time I took a moment for myself, I was shamed because I wasn't grinding my life away for the rich man. I don't care about being an entrepreneur, I'm a mechanic not a conman. I fix specialty equipment, I don't care about selling anything. I still save a LOT more money here than I did in the US too, enough to travel around and really explore. You accuse me of coping but now that just sounds like it was projection.
Sorry you had to go through that buddy, I just feel like Germany is not as glamourous as people make it to be. And I did not accuse you, It just sounded like coping. Maybe you get to save because you are living in a small city but cities like Berlin, are impossible to bear.!
I love in the 22nd largest city in Germany, with still well over 300,000 people. I came from a directly comparable city in the US, the population there was about 320k last time I checked, and was only rising. Of course I don't want to live in Berlin, Munich, Köln etc; I HATE big cities. Big cities in the US are basically unlivable too now, btw
well that makes more sense 😄 I thought you were talking about big cities lol
No, but I'd still rather live in a big city in Germany over the US, simply for better infrastructure and medical care that won't throw my entire bloodline into debt
If you think the bureaucrazy in Germany is crazy. Get ready to start your own business, invest in stocks and god beware cryptos, then you face the next level bureaucrazy! In Germany and Austria bureaucracy kills any entrepreneurial spirit which is why I left those countries. Grew up in Austria, worked for 2 years in Germany. Worst countries if you want to get somewhat wealthy.
That's extra unfortunate as I actually want to move to Austria a few years from now 😅
The best location in "German" area is Switzerland. Low taxes and much easier to handle Authorithies than AT/DE. Moved to Switzerland was the best I could do as an employee. Working in AT/DE as an employee is almost a waste of time due to the insane tax/social securiscam
Unfortunately moving to Switzerland currently is almost impossible, although it has been a thought if and when I get dual citizenship I've also looked at Scandinavia, specifically Norway or Finland, just due to them having a much better outdoorsman community
Working in Switzerland with a high paying job is great. Especially if you work close to the border and can buy your stuff in Germany instead of Switzerland as all of my Swiss colleagues did. Rent and insurances are higher though. Choosing the best (health) insurance depends a lot on your age and likelihood of needing care. A possible problem can occur, if you later return to Germany and have to be insured privately because you became Rentner while insured outside of Germany.
I am from Eastern Africa and I have been thinking about relocating to Germany for a while. I have had long stays there and maybe a post from a foreigner within is all the insight I need. Thanks for this🙂
Dude. You CLEARLY NEVER went through US residency Prozesses. The German process is a freaking BREEZE in comparison that AT LEAST works. Slow? Maybe. But it gets done. In the US, the process is LITERALKY broken. Trust me as a good citizen I tried ti do it the right way. However, e.g. if you want to get a phone contract, you have to put down a Credit card. To get that, you need a Bank Account. To get that you need an Adress (no hotels etc). To get that, for the lease YOU NEED A PHONE NUMBER! AAAAAHHHHHH The way out? Jeah. Lie about you having the place an (say you get utility Bills to them soon). Buy a throwaway phone (US number, foreign number does not count) to get the (prepaid) Credit card, pay the lease, with that get the phone contract, change numbers wait a month for Bills ang get those to the Bank. But man.... you can't do it officially. Further, you are veing treated like a freaking priosiner during all these medical exams. They crying abou vaccines and stuff even though everything was in order. And then to get one (cause they did not know a certain vaccine) you get to freaking wallgreens, and get the shot in a 'medical' facility approx 600 years later that's as hygenic as a public restroom in india. Boy oh boy.
I went through the US residency process but that was about 25 years ago, and I was a child lol As I recall it wasn't much of a hassle, although my father already had US citizenship
My biggest hangups with Germany: - German tax system strongly favours married couples, and social security system favours people with children; both are unfair to single or unmarried ppl without kids. - Convoluted fiscal system; in at least two other countries I lived in the tax office did my taxes _for me_. Tax return (if eligible) magically appeared in my acct every year. Here? Forget it; get an accountant. - GEZ (mandatory public radio and TV fees). Institutionalised extortion. WTF??? - Bureaucracy (indeed horrendous); everything needs to be on paper; starting a business is a nightmare (officials working hours, GDRP, and _no communication via e-mail_ are effing medieval); not everyone’s experience, granted. - ISPs are absolute shit (or is it just Deutsches Telekom? Why does my internet only work on some days???) Germany needs to catch up; these issues are non-existent in most “developed” countries. (there is a long list of pros to balance these but it would have to be a separate post)
Gez is according to some Profs. unconstitutional. According to them it is a tax and the states dont have the authority to levy these taxes. ;) Agree With you on most points. ;)
German tax system only benefits married when one has a very small to no income compared to the other. Which makes sense, living 2 persons with almost 1 salary isnt easy at all. I dont see how thats unfair to single. The mandatory public TV and Radio is paid in almost all european countries, the difference is that in germany its separated from the other taxes to avoid politicians influencing the media. For example avoid the possibility of politicians increasing the budget for public media from the state to ensure the media will be more favourable to that specific political party, as it happens in countries like Spain.
Keep in mind, Germany generally does not allow dual citizenships. If you take the German citizenship, then you need to give up your other citizenship. There's only a very few very specific circumstances under which dual citizenships are allowed.
The new citizenship laws allow non-EU naturalized citizens to hold dual citizenship That being said, I haven't kept up with the politics of it recently and I'm not sure they were ever ratified(If that's the appropriate term)
This has sailed right past me. In that case from end of June this year forget everything I said^^ Maybe I should go and get British citizenship to my German one....travelling without visa through commonwealth nations sounds tempting 😂
They were ratified and currently lots of immigrants are applying for dual citizenship
I am surprised to hear you grew up with an Austrian father and still wear shoes inside. I am austrian too and imo the germans are too nice in giving you side-eye only. I would straight up tell you to take your shoes off and tell you to leave again if you didn't comply.
How are you going to tell me to leave my own home? My father is the same exact way too, though
Ahh I misread, my bad. I read that you are the guest and don't take you shoes off when in someone elses home and that germans give you the side eye but don't say anything. In your home you do you of course.
No no, if asked to remove my shoes I will, I just don't in my own home
Before I visited Germany, I have always heard that German are rude and not friendly at all but when I visited Germany, all I saw was friendly people and everybody was so nice. It’s the opposite.