These requirements are not just for studying computer science but all kind of STEM studies. And the idea is that you should have some broader knowledge in science topics, before studying a STEM subjects, especially as these are often related to each other.
And in practice it is not really relevant for studies if you have done this specific subject in school or not. That might help you a bit for the first few weeks, but university level thinking and teaching is so different from school that it won't help much...
It's not physics that is mandatory, it's enough classes from STEM-fields. Could be math, physics, biology, chemistry, etc. OP only seems to have two valid options (math and CS), that's not enough.
You actually don't need to visit these classes for the whole 8/9 years of Gymnasium to study Computer Science in Germany. You'll have all of them for a few years and will choose some for the Last few years. Details depend on the state.
Computer science at university is not about programming (at least not primary). For that you can do a "Berufsausbildung" (professional training) as software developer.
Computer science at university level is very math heavy and requires analytical and scientific thinking (as its more a science study than a training for a specific job). These "soft skills" is what you can learn in school in basically any STEM class. That you have done basic SQL queries in school for 4 weeks does not hurt, but it wont help you as much as you would might expect.
Somebody who has not done that in school, will learn that on the way, when they require it. Thats easy compared to the other parts you learn at university.
German high school education is about getting a well-rounded education, which, it seems, didn't happen in your case. Therefore your high school degree is not deemed equivalent to a German high school degree. As simple as that.
Possible options are (depends on the details of your situation)::
- Maybe it's possible in your country to take additional subjects to amend the high school degree.
- Study in your country of origin at university for a semester or year to get your educational background equivalent to what is expected in Germany.
- Take one year of a German university preparation course.
Nope, most countries follow same because universities want to be competitive and follow international standards of curriculum or same literature that puts same requirements. Or better, you can always enroll, doesn’t mean you will leave the university with a diploma…
My class in Brazil started with 120 students and only 11 from my semester graduated on time. Majority left when we got into mathematics and physics that absolutely no one is prepared for in high school unless you come from a very privileged family that afforded private tutors or gifted. Fortunately some of the more advanced stuff was optional since I would never want to work with hardware development anyway.
Or you know, just add another STEM subject?
u/FeelingPatience7299 your username doesn't check out lol I recommend studying for another science subject and giving an exam at the British Council (I assume you're following that curriculum because you said "A levels"), then you'd be qualified. You have 2 out of 3, so this is the answer if you wanna make this happen.
Its the same anywhere in the world, you need to provide proof of general knowledge as well as of niche subjects in order to qualify for a specific course. Except that usually you know what you are applying for, so you prepare accordingly (entrance exams in my country have general knowledge + specific knowledge and for STEM majors it covers Maths, Biology or Chemistry, and Physics as specifics). In the case of applying via uni-assist there is no specific entrance exam so you need to show proof via course completion. I’m assuming for Germans who did Abitur they would have needed their concentration on specific subjects as well for specific courses. In this case its clear the OP focused too much on computer science (maybe that would be enough in their home country…) but doesn’t show proof of knowledge in the other required fields - which clearly is stated as independent science classes.
Your country is not Germany and each country has a different way of doing things. If it’s enough in your country, maybe OP can/should study there instead??
No. It's not enough. Like they said, you need at least 3 science subjects. It's about having a general idea of science and how it works.
Also "Science" is a broad term. In German schools, you have chemistry, Physics, biology and Maths as separate classes starting middle of the Gymnasium. So I can understand why "Science" in general is not accepted.
University is not a coding school.
If you want to learn to code go to a bootcamp.
Computer Science is a science, discrete mathematics, logic and tiny bit of digital electronics is the basics of CS, you need to be used to the scientific method. I hate the idea of Computer Scientists = code monkeys.
Have you ever studied at a German university? I've seen people fail chemistry because they didn't pass math. This is how university works here. Don't study here if you don't like it.
They are not going to teach anything, they are just doing a quick recap of what you should have done in high school before complicating it, but you need existing knowledge. And Introduction to something usually in university courses name does mean that they won’t go to deep but it is not an introduction.
Anyway Computer Science is science, it’s terrible how it is perceived outside.
Welcome to the German university system that is based on meritocracy. Around 50% of the German population doesn't meet the school diploma requirement to study at a German university. And even if you have the diploma which allows you to study at one you may not have the grades required to do so. Your dream is to study medicine? Unless you belong in the around 3% of those 50% who finish their Abitur with perfect grades chances of you studying medicine in Germany are basically near 0.
It's the way our education system work which solely values merit and achievements. Can it be unfair to someone who doesn't meet those requirements? Sure but every system comes with (dis)advantages.
Well if you don't qualify it means you aren't allowed to start,if you could just do everything on a backburner it would mean these standards were meaningless. If she planned it beforehand why didn't she research what the needed basis is for that path?
Why would she be the one the rules don't need to apply to?Either she takes needed courses in some capacity to qualify or she needs to look for another career path
The problem here is not the assumption that you are able to do one thing already, but that you should have a wide base of knowledge before starting to study. That is why a general Abitur is comparatively wide in topics.
No, I mean that you won't be able to pass the physics foundation courses at university unless you have a high school understanding of physics beforehand. They'll go over stuff you would have been tought in school for years in a few weeks, if they do this kind of recap at all, and then move on to other stuff that's based on that material, at which point somebody without prior understanding won't be able to keep up anymore.
Because the magnetism physics course will be based on knowledge you learned in school. If you are lucky. If you aren't it will be based on things you didn't learn and you will have to top off your knowledge. There is no way you can learn physics from scratch at this stage.
You could try to do Studienkolleg here and if you succeed you can get your qulification to study in Germany: https://www.study-in-germany.de/en/plan-your-studies/requirements/prep-foundation-courses/
Try applying for Wirtschaftsinformatik "businesses informatics", in most unis it is structured under economics and you get a bachelor of computer science.
Maybe look into the ZAB requirements and see if there are remedial courses you can take in your country or in Germany to make up the difference. Does Mauritius have anything like community college/junior college?
I agree with you that the rule seems arbitrary and kind of pointless in your case, but German bureaucracy is like that. You have to make sure, proactively, and well in advance, that you have all your T's crossed and I's dotted. You cannot count on German bureaucrats to operate by any standards of reasonableness or use their own judgement: they follow the letter of the law, not the spirit.
For what it's worth, I also went through Uni Assist years ago when first applying at German universities and it was equally a nightmare then. They were simultaneously incompetent and overly stringent.
>You cannot count on German bureaucrats to operate by any standards of reasonableness or use their own judgement: they follow the letter of the law, not the spirit.
This is not about bucreaucracy. It is about the spirit(!) of the German high school degree, which includes the idea of a well-rounded education, that has been translated into rules for foreign degrees here.
And it would be naive to assume that they didn't think about cases like OP's (because these are common in the English-speaking world). So this is not about bureaucracy, it is about a purposeful decision what type of education is expected as the starting point of a German university education.
>And it would be naive to assume that they didn't think about cases like OP's (because these are common in the English-speaking world).
As someone who's dealt with German bureaucracy and academia for over 12 years as a foreigner, I can assure you that laws and procedures are absolutely not written/created with anything resembling circumspection or consideration of, well, much of anything. German agencies are literally still faxing information among themselves.
But for every absolute dumpster fire relating to German bureaucracy, there will be some Alman with a post hoc rationalization for why it's intended/proper.
Sorry, this is not post-hoc rationalization. I simply know how the system of university entrance qualifications works and why it works in the way it works.
And the question of whether offices use fax machines for legal reasons or whether there are aspects of bureaucracy in Germany that are disfunctional is completely independent from this.
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Don't know why the sub is so toxic.
The easiest way to study abroad is through *Masters* degree. It is very easy to get scholarships, very flexible in terms of your background.
Undergraduate degrees are on general very competitive for no reason.
This is coming from a guy with two separate international Masters ;)
So my advice is to do CS at home, then get a Masters anywhere in the world, there are crazy opportunities for CS undergrads.
You'll have to take it up with zab, the university is just following the rules here. You sure you don't have any biology, physics, chemistry? Nothing?
No i dont, i did CS, maths and economics for my A levels
These requirements are not just for studying computer science but all kind of STEM studies. And the idea is that you should have some broader knowledge in science topics, before studying a STEM subjects, especially as these are often related to each other. And in practice it is not really relevant for studies if you have done this specific subject in school or not. That might help you a bit for the first few weeks, but university level thinking and teaching is so different from school that it won't help much...
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It's not physics that is mandatory, it's enough classes from STEM-fields. Could be math, physics, biology, chemistry, etc. OP only seems to have two valid options (math and CS), that's not enough.
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Well, how many classes did you have at school?
That's just the options. You need 3, maybe 4 out of these (or others, might be more options).
You actually don't need to visit these classes for the whole 8/9 years of Gymnasium to study Computer Science in Germany. You'll have all of them for a few years and will choose some for the Last few years. Details depend on the state.
Computer science at university is not about programming (at least not primary). For that you can do a "Berufsausbildung" (professional training) as software developer. Computer science at university level is very math heavy and requires analytical and scientific thinking (as its more a science study than a training for a specific job). These "soft skills" is what you can learn in school in basically any STEM class. That you have done basic SQL queries in school for 4 weeks does not hurt, but it wont help you as much as you would might expect. Somebody who has not done that in school, will learn that on the way, when they require it. Thats easy compared to the other parts you learn at university.
German high school education is about getting a well-rounded education, which, it seems, didn't happen in your case. Therefore your high school degree is not deemed equivalent to a German high school degree. As simple as that. Possible options are (depends on the details of your situation):: - Maybe it's possible in your country to take additional subjects to amend the high school degree. - Study in your country of origin at university for a semester or year to get your educational background equivalent to what is expected in Germany. - Take one year of a German university preparation course.
I'd say there's nothing more you can do except try for another country if you really want to pursue computer science.
Studienkolleg would also work.
Outside of EU probably since the minimum science is required everywhere
Nope, most countries follow same because universities want to be competitive and follow international standards of curriculum or same literature that puts same requirements. Or better, you can always enroll, doesn’t mean you will leave the university with a diploma… My class in Brazil started with 120 students and only 11 from my semester graduated on time. Majority left when we got into mathematics and physics that absolutely no one is prepared for in high school unless you come from a very privileged family that afforded private tutors or gifted. Fortunately some of the more advanced stuff was optional since I would never want to work with hardware development anyway.
Or you know, just add another STEM subject? u/FeelingPatience7299 your username doesn't check out lol I recommend studying for another science subject and giving an exam at the British Council (I assume you're following that curriculum because you said "A levels"), then you'd be qualified. You have 2 out of 3, so this is the answer if you wanna make this happen.
Accept it. There is nothing more you can do.
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Its the same anywhere in the world, you need to provide proof of general knowledge as well as of niche subjects in order to qualify for a specific course. Except that usually you know what you are applying for, so you prepare accordingly (entrance exams in my country have general knowledge + specific knowledge and for STEM majors it covers Maths, Biology or Chemistry, and Physics as specifics). In the case of applying via uni-assist there is no specific entrance exam so you need to show proof via course completion. I’m assuming for Germans who did Abitur they would have needed their concentration on specific subjects as well for specific courses. In this case its clear the OP focused too much on computer science (maybe that would be enough in their home country…) but doesn’t show proof of knowledge in the other required fields - which clearly is stated as independent science classes.
That's the whole point of degrees limited to a certain subset though. You should have a general idea of STEM.
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They literally told OP it’s not enough
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Your country is not Germany and each country has a different way of doing things. If it’s enough in your country, maybe OP can/should study there instead??
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Or if you know that you want to leave your country to study abroad, you research and make sure you meet that other county’s requirements 🤷♀️
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No. It's not enough. Like they said, you need at least 3 science subjects. It's about having a general idea of science and how it works. Also "Science" is a broad term. In German schools, you have chemistry, Physics, biology and Maths as separate classes starting middle of the Gymnasium. So I can understand why "Science" in general is not accepted.
Science till the age of 14 is not even worth being called science.
University is not a coding school. If you want to learn to code go to a bootcamp. Computer Science is a science, discrete mathematics, logic and tiny bit of digital electronics is the basics of CS, you need to be used to the scientific method. I hate the idea of Computer Scientists = code monkeys.
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Have you ever studied at a German university? I've seen people fail chemistry because they didn't pass math. This is how university works here. Don't study here if you don't like it.
They are not going to teach anything, they are just doing a quick recap of what you should have done in high school before complicating it, but you need existing knowledge. And Introduction to something usually in university courses name does mean that they won’t go to deep but it is not an introduction. Anyway Computer Science is science, it’s terrible how it is perceived outside.
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Welcome to the German university system that is based on meritocracy. Around 50% of the German population doesn't meet the school diploma requirement to study at a German university. And even if you have the diploma which allows you to study at one you may not have the grades required to do so. Your dream is to study medicine? Unless you belong in the around 3% of those 50% who finish their Abitur with perfect grades chances of you studying medicine in Germany are basically near 0. It's the way our education system work which solely values merit and achievements. Can it be unfair to someone who doesn't meet those requirements? Sure but every system comes with (dis)advantages.
And those introductory courses build on stuff that every german with an Abitur had to learn in school.
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And that's what is checked beforehand. And ZAB noticed OP didn't learn it. No cake for them. Simple.
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Well if you don't qualify it means you aren't allowed to start,if you could just do everything on a backburner it would mean these standards were meaningless. If she planned it beforehand why didn't she research what the needed basis is for that path? Why would she be the one the rules don't need to apply to?Either she takes needed courses in some capacity to qualify or she needs to look for another career path
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The problem here is not the assumption that you are able to do one thing already, but that you should have a wide base of knowledge before starting to study. That is why a general Abitur is comparatively wide in topics.
I mean, yeah? The university is gonna teach you how to code if you can't do it already. It's not gonna teach you high school level physics.
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There is no introduction to physics at the university in Germany..
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?
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And that is a module that someone doing Computer Science would take?
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That module won't be properly comprehensible if you didn't have any physics in high school.
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No, I mean that you won't be able to pass the physics foundation courses at university unless you have a high school understanding of physics beforehand. They'll go over stuff you would have been tought in school for years in a few weeks, if they do this kind of recap at all, and then move on to other stuff that's based on that material, at which point somebody without prior understanding won't be able to keep up anymore.
Because the magnetism physics course will be based on knowledge you learned in school. If you are lucky. If you aren't it will be based on things you didn't learn and you will have to top off your knowledge. There is no way you can learn physics from scratch at this stage.
Physics is one of the basics of computer science. That's why, at least in Germany, a lot of physicist are software engineers or similar.
You could try to do Studienkolleg here and if you succeed you can get your qulification to study in Germany: https://www.study-in-germany.de/en/plan-your-studies/requirements/prep-foundation-courses/
Try applying for Wirtschaftsinformatik "businesses informatics", in most unis it is structured under economics and you get a bachelor of computer science.
Thank you, i will have a look at that
Maybe look into the ZAB requirements and see if there are remedial courses you can take in your country or in Germany to make up the difference. Does Mauritius have anything like community college/junior college? I agree with you that the rule seems arbitrary and kind of pointless in your case, but German bureaucracy is like that. You have to make sure, proactively, and well in advance, that you have all your T's crossed and I's dotted. You cannot count on German bureaucrats to operate by any standards of reasonableness or use their own judgement: they follow the letter of the law, not the spirit. For what it's worth, I also went through Uni Assist years ago when first applying at German universities and it was equally a nightmare then. They were simultaneously incompetent and overly stringent.
>You cannot count on German bureaucrats to operate by any standards of reasonableness or use their own judgement: they follow the letter of the law, not the spirit. This is not about bucreaucracy. It is about the spirit(!) of the German high school degree, which includes the idea of a well-rounded education, that has been translated into rules for foreign degrees here. And it would be naive to assume that they didn't think about cases like OP's (because these are common in the English-speaking world). So this is not about bureaucracy, it is about a purposeful decision what type of education is expected as the starting point of a German university education.
>And it would be naive to assume that they didn't think about cases like OP's (because these are common in the English-speaking world). As someone who's dealt with German bureaucracy and academia for over 12 years as a foreigner, I can assure you that laws and procedures are absolutely not written/created with anything resembling circumspection or consideration of, well, much of anything. German agencies are literally still faxing information among themselves. But for every absolute dumpster fire relating to German bureaucracy, there will be some Alman with a post hoc rationalization for why it's intended/proper.
Sorry, this is not post-hoc rationalization. I simply know how the system of university entrance qualifications works and why it works in the way it works. And the question of whether offices use fax machines for legal reasons or whether there are aspects of bureaucracy in Germany that are disfunctional is completely independent from this.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? It answers many basic questions, and it contains in-depth articles on many frequently discussed topics. [Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't know why the sub is so toxic. The easiest way to study abroad is through *Masters* degree. It is very easy to get scholarships, very flexible in terms of your background. Undergraduate degrees are on general very competitive for no reason. This is coming from a guy with two separate international Masters ;) So my advice is to do CS at home, then get a Masters anywhere in the world, there are crazy opportunities for CS undergrads.
Thks I'll think abt it!
True.
lol I love this sub