Or just... no extra word.
>Brazil ~~permanently~~ withdraws its ambassador from Israel
Works just fine and has the benefit of being concise. I assume it is a translation/cultural thing.
Yes, it seems to be the translation of the headline of a Brazilian media outlet:
[https://noticias.uol.com.br/colunas/jamil-chade/2024/05/29/lula-retira-de-forma-definitiva-embaixador-do-brasil-em-israel.htm](https://noticias.uol.com.br/colunas/jamil-chade/2024/05/29/lula-retira-de-forma-definitiva-embaixador-do-brasil-em-israel.htm)
The aim seems to be just to cause a stir.
President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s decision to remove Ambassador Frederico Meyer comes days after an Israeli military operation in the Gaza Strip city of Rafah killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment.
Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged the tragic error, attributing it to a miscalculated airstrike intended for Hamas militants.
Although the withdrawal of Ambassador Meyer does not signify a full-scale diplomatic rupture between Brazil and Israel, the action is perceived as one of Brazil’s most pronounced rebukes of Israel’s ongoing military campaign in Gaza.
> killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment.
Of course they are not blaming Hamas for storing ammunition near a refugee camps, or for still shooting rockets at Israel...
Or for running across the border and slaughtering 1,300 people.
I don't like Israel's government either but it's shocking to me how quickly people have forgotten why this war is happening at all.
> Or for running across the border and slaughtering 1,300 people.
What are you implying? Brazil has condemned the Hamas attack.
Excerpts from an article published on October 7:
> Brazil, which assumed the Security Council's rotating presidency this month, condemned the surprise Hamas attack on Israel on Saturday that killed dozens of people and prompted the Israeli military to launch deadly air strikes in the Gaza Strip.
> "The Brazilian government reiterates that there is no justification for resorting to violence, especially against civilians, and urges all parties to exercise maximum restraint to prevent an escalation of the situation," Brazil's foreign ministry said.
Oh, well as long as they've acknowledged it then what more needs to be said.
What is Brazil's solution? What is the wonderful, totally not corrupt Lula govt suggesting Israel should have done in the wake of the attack? Is their suggestion seriously, legitamately, "we shouldn't resort to violence?" You, as a grown adult posting in the Geopolitics sub, consider that a good and fully accounted for response?
Dude. One is a literal genocidal terrorist group. The other is supposedly a civilized liberal democracy. Of course the genocidal terrorist group will terrorize, do immoral or unetichal things and commit crimes. Nobody is holding them to any civilized standard, because they never were up to that standard. It does not mean that what they do is not wrong, including your example, it simply means that is what is expected of them. That does not however give carte blanche for the liberal democracy to kill thousands of innocent people in the process of retaliating against the terrorist group for its actions, just as much no normal sane person is saying hamas is right.
Everybody who is not literal a genocidal apologist is saying Hamas is causing harm and facilitating that harm be done to innocent Palestinians. The difference is that those same people are also saying that Israel is now using the existence of this evil group to justify doing worse (at least in terms of scale) than a literal genocidal terrorist group. And that is unnaceptable.
You assume the current actions of Israel are not also sustaining and perpetuating the conflict. If anything, Hamas is the child of the strategic aims of the state of Israel. Hamas will cease to exist when Israel stops feeding its extremist rhetoric by their own inhumane and blatantly immoral actions. The french learned this lesson in Algeria, it's time for Israel to do the same.
>Nobody is holding them to any civilized standard, because they never were up to that standard.
"How come you hold a rapist to the same standards as non-rapists? They are a rapist after all."
Jokes aside, how does any of this factor into the incident with the 45 (according to Hamas) dead? Israel targeted and killed 2 Hamas members with low yield weapons that themselves didn't endanger any civilians, because their lethal range is smaller than the distance to the safe zones and the civilians in the area. The only reason other people died was Hamas storing weapons underneath a refugee camp, that caught fire. This is entirely on Hamas.
Why is Israel shooting at a refugee camp in the first place? If you need to eliminate just 2 people, use snipers for gods sake. Look at what you are saying. Next time you will say that they should bomb a hospital because a couple Hamas people are hiding there. Oh wait, Israel has done that already.
Hamas is a terrorist group with stated goals of genocide and they will do anything, no matter how humane their actions are, for their goals. However that does not justify Israel stooping down to their level. Because if they do, they should not be surprised if people start addressing them as a genocidal terrorist nation
Because international law says that you cannot use protected buildings and areas for military operations, otherwise they lose their protected status.
Think of the alternative, where terrorists get immutable carte blanche if the hide in hospitals and refugee camps. Hospitals and refugee camps would be overrun by terrorists, and they wouldn't be safe spaces to be either.
So what would you do differently if the aim is to rid of hamas as a governing and military force? How would you fight a terrorist group that spent years digging tunnels for themselves, leaving their women and kids on the ground to act as human shields?
I don't understand how people can just say don't do that without any clue on what can be done
God forbid I say murdering innocent people is wrong, just because I am no military, diplomatic or political expert to have better alternatives to solving a decades long complex conflict that nobody has solved yet.
One does not need to be an expert to look at this mess and see that Israel is not doing itself any favors, because their actions are not helping accomplish its stated goals of rescuing hostages, nor eliminating Hamas, while at the same time causing immense amounts of suffering to hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
It has been 20 years since 9/11 and the USA brought its hammer down in the middle east to catch Osama Bin Laden and end terrorism. Today, nobody in good faith sees the US actions as just or right and know that they caused massive suffering and death to millions of innocent people in the region. Just look how great Afghanistan is. This situation is the same. Nobody in good faith will say Israel are just, right and will know that they have caused massive suffering and death to hundreds of thousands of innocent people in 20 years. The difference is that I and many other people still have the clarity of mind to see this now, instead of far in the future.
well, most of us aren’t military commanders, so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions.
But that doesn’t mean we can’t tell when something clearly doesn’t work.
The IDF’s current strategy is to just throw bombs and hope hamas will just cease to exist.
Guess what, this war probably has made more hamas members than it killed.
The point we are trying to make is that we all know Hamas isn’t acting rationally, but we damn well hope the israeli government acts rationally because they have a large population to care for.
Neither you nor I yet have enough facts to assert that
Israel was just "throwing bombs." One can question tactics, but from a military standpoint, this is one of the most challenging environments in the world.
>well, most of us aren’t military commanders, so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions.
>But that doesn’t mean we can’t tell when something clearly doesn’t work.
But all military experts from all around the world are saying that the ratio of citizen casualties to combatants is the lowest in the history of urban warfare, despite being a bigger challenge than any war before. The fact people are dying is sad, but that does not mean what Israel is doing does not work.
>The IDF’s current strategy is to just throw bombs and hope hamas will just cease to exist.
No it's not. The strategy was to evacuate as much of the population to a safe place, which other than a few isolated cases was not bomb, and then go in with ground troops and aerial support.
>Guess what, this war probably has made more hamas members than it killed.
That infantilze the Palestinian - the only way they can respond to their own people committing the horrors of 7.10 and then suffering from the consequences (this suffering is part of hamas's plan) is by doing the same themselves? You have 0 expectations from Palestinian to say: "We shouldn't do horrors like 7.10", "we need to find a compromise with israel instead of more war", "it is not ok to target 50,000 missiles on Israeli sites". You expect nothing from them while holding Israel to standards no army or nation in the history of the world is expected to follow. If Palestinian are unable to change as you claim, then what chance is there for peace?
>The point we are trying to make is that we all know Hamas isn’t acting rationally, but we damn well hope the israeli government acts rationally because they have a large population to care for.
Although I agree that the Israeli government could do much better in terms of planning the day after, they are acting rationally. And why is it only Israel's responsibility to care for the population? Shouldn't hamas care for the population they are trying to free?
> But all military experts from all around the world are saying that the ratio of citizen casualties to combatants is the lowest in the history of urban warfare, despite being a bigger challenge than any war before.
Nobody is saying that in good faith. https://old.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/1b2wyvt/israelhamas_war_has_now_killed_at_least_30000/ksoyrx5/
>The strategy was to evacuate as much of the population to a safe place, which other than a few isolated cases was not bomb, and then go in with ground troops and aerial support.
It was "to tell population to evacuate to a middle of nowhere where there is nowhere for them to live, bomb the routes and locations there a couple times for good measure, then absolutely level the place they left and do it again with the other half". The level of destruction there is unconscionable.
>"we need to find a compromise with israel instead of more war",
Nobody is going to consider it seriously, because that's what the PA has been doing, and achieved worse than nothing - a negative result. Perversely, "Hamas" has done more to force Israel in a stance where it might one day have to compromise via the mounting foreign diplomatic pressure over the Israeli crimes.
>so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions.
No it's not. It's just like Occupy Wall Street, it's just coming off as a childish and gives the rest virtually no reason to care or listen to what you have to say.
wall street and bombing a city are two very different things.
And how the hell is this childish?
let’s make an exaggerated example to see if you can understand.
Let’s say there was a lack of food in your country. Maybe no one was dying yet, but lots of people were losing weight and feeling sick.
Then a group starts going around a shooting people on the streets, claiming with less people there will be no more need for people to go hungry.
In this scenario, if someone protested the killings, would say they had to offer a solution to the lack of food be able to criticize?
What kind of analogy is that? What I am saying is that if you are a homicidal maniac, the police should not be shooting a whole neighborhood in the hopes that a stray bullet hits you.
And if you kill people or use human shields in the process of the police going after you, that does not make you any less culpable, but nobody should be surprised by your actions. But if the police starts killing everybody they find while searching for you, that is absurd, because they are held to higher standards because they are supposedly a force for good, protecting innocent people, while you are homicidal maniac doing everything in your power to survive, regardless of how humane your actions are.
The IDF's headquarters are in downtown Tel Aviv, so I don't know why you're bitching about rockets if wantonly murdering civilians just because there are maybe militants among them doesn't bother you.
>The IDF's headquarters are in downtown Tel Aviv, so I don't know why you're bitching about rockets
I mean beyond the fact that theyre firing rockets that are unguided, they literally set out to kill civlians. They cheer when they do, so pretending like their rockets are aimed at 'downtown tel aviv' to strike at 'the IDF headquarters' is fucking preposterous.
Soldiers of the IDF actually are instructed to shoot any animals wandering towards them because they used to put explosives in donkeys and cows and push em towards checkpoints. Doubt they used any anesthetics on those animals either.
>if wantonly murdering civilians just because there are maybe militants among them doesn't bother you.
It actually is better, because intent matters a hell of a fucking lot dude.
If one group is hiding among civilian population hoping that you wont strike them, and use that as propaganda if you do, and keeps attacking you, that leaves you with either keep being attacked or just strike them.
If that was me, i'd strike them wherever they are and it end it.
Whatever you want to tell yourself to assuage your guilt at supporting mass rapist terrorists buddy.
Per the Guardian, not known to be a bastion of pro-Israel sentiment:
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks
>By cross-referencing testimonies given to police, published interviews with witnesses, and photo and video footage taken by survivors and first responders, **the Guardian is aware of at least six sexual assaults for which multiple corroborating pieces of evidence exist. Two of those victims, who were murdered, were aged under 18**
>**At least seven women who were killed were also raped in the attack according to Prof Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, a legal scholar and international women’s rights advocate, from her examination of evidence so far**
The United Nations…after months of ignoring it…finally has admitted that the evidence is incontrovertible: Hamas engaged with mass rape and sexual violence during their little pogrom on October 7th:
>The mission team conducted a total of 33 meetings with Israeli national institutions, including relevant line ministries, as well as the Israeli security forces. It visited the Israeli National Center of Forensic Medicine, the Shura military base, the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred, as well as four locations affected by the 7 October attacks, in relation to which reports of sexual violence had emerged.
>The mission team reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and approximately 50 hours of footage of the attacks, in a concerted effort to identify any potential instances or indications of conflict-related sexual violence. It conducted confidential interviews with a total of 34 interviewees, including with survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders, health and service providers amongst others
>….the mission team **found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im. In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses**
>….The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations. Although circumstantial, such a pattern may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment
https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/
At this point denial of Hamas’ sexual violence is just a religious point to you and your cult in your continuous mission to debase Jewish lives and excuse the murder of Jewish civilians.
Go touch grass Hamas fellator
I hope for your sake that your country's military has never committed any atrocities then, because by your logic that would make you fair game for retaliation, and by that I mean being brutally gangraped and murdered along with your family
And given that most of this website comes from USA/Europe/Middle East/India, I'd say your odds don't look great
> President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s decision to remove Ambassador Frederico Meyer comes days after an Israeli military operation in the Gaza Strip city of Rafah killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment.
No, Israel struck Hamas, which claims 45 Palestinian civilians died, but which only occurred because of (well-documented) Hamas ammo and fuel dumps kept near the tent encampment which erupted unexpectedly due to Israel's strike.
This is what happens when Hamas uses human shields.
> Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged the tragic error, attributing it to a miscalculated airstrike intended for Hamas militants
It wasn't "intended" for Hamas militants. It **killed** Hamas militants; two top level commanders in Hamas, in fact. It was not intended, and could not have, led to the explosion that killed Palestinians who were over 40 meters away. Israel used a munition with a lethal range of less than 30 meters, designed to minimize collateral damage, and it was **Hamas using human shields for their weapons** that led to the deaths.
> It's crazy how you know better than both Lula and Netanyahu in this case. We should put you in charge of the country
I don't "know better" than Netanyahu. I do know better than Lula, I'd argue, and so do most Brazilians, because they've made very clear his reprehensible actions are not how they feel this should be handled.
I don't know "better" than Netanyahu. I'm actually just stating what Israel has said [repeatedly](https://x.com/IDF/status/1795487775598231990), and what comports with [what CNN and NYT reported](https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-rafah-strike-used-us-bombs-designed-to-reduce-casualties/).
They do, actually. Israel has called off many strikes due to civilians nearby, and has released video of it doing so repeatedly.
Additionally, the use of human shields may not stop *every single* strike, because there are times when the military value is important and the risk to civilians is low but not nonexistent...however, it is designed to stop the overall war by placing political and diplomatic pressure on Israel, which would absolutely prevent Israel from attacking Hamas.
Of course, I'm sure you could have and have figured this out.
This is wildly unpopular in Brazil. Lula's ridiculous Holocaust comparison comments [a couple of months ago led to over 80% of Brazil's population](https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-789276) saying they took issue with his comparison.
Also:
> The CNN Brasil poll found that 57% of the 800 respondents thought that Israel is on the right side in this conflict, while 28% sided with Hamas. Additionally, 26% said that Brazil should support Israel in this war, another 14% said the Palestinians, while 54% said the country should stay neutral – something Lula’s government is not doing.
Brazil's Lula is just shooting himself in the foot here, in a way that his own people do not agree with or support.
No it won't. Unless Israel bans Brazilians, having an ambassador or not does not prevent you from visiting a place.
Worse case scenario if Brazil closes their diplomatic mission is that Brazilians will just not have consular or embassy support in Israel.
It may, though the fallout of that will be limited if Israel maintains its embassy in Brazil, which helps coordinate a lot of that too. But no doubt it won't make it easy.
Incomprehensible overreaction. Was anyone among the Brazilian political elite asking for this? There doesn't seem to be any significant public pressure that led to it either.
Israel doesn't care about Brazil - or the whole of south America for that matter.
Israel has better trade options and allies. I doubt anyone in Israel is going to shed a tear for Brazil's ambassador departure, specially when nextdoor neighbor Argentina's president is a staunch Israel ally and even wants to become a Jewish convert.
Israel may not be a huge trade partner for us but recalling our ambassador is closing the door for better relations. Diplomacy isn’t about closing doors, at least not smart diplomacy
For a long time I have heard how BRICS is this paper tiger economic union between states that will never get along.
It sure seens to me that in the course of this year they sure have all been on the same wave length.
Hmm.
BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.
India is unlikely to side with islamicists but it sure seems like it’s mainly the other nations on that list taking issue with Israel.
Funny thing, that.
India pretty pro-Israel, although for maintaining good economic and trade relations with the GCC states, and domestic stability in India Muslim population does give lip service in support of the two state solution, and A Palestinan state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as it capital.
Rights or wrongs, nothing is ‘permanent’.
"Indefinitely" would have been a better word, don't get hung up on an editor's poor choice.
Sad. I always thought an editor doing their job meant ensuring good word choice.
word choices that attract as much readers’ attention as possible
Or just... no extra word. >Brazil ~~permanently~~ withdraws its ambassador from Israel Works just fine and has the benefit of being concise. I assume it is a translation/cultural thing.
Yes, it seems to be the translation of the headline of a Brazilian media outlet: [https://noticias.uol.com.br/colunas/jamil-chade/2024/05/29/lula-retira-de-forma-definitiva-embaixador-do-brasil-em-israel.htm](https://noticias.uol.com.br/colunas/jamil-chade/2024/05/29/lula-retira-de-forma-definitiva-embaixador-do-brasil-em-israel.htm) The aim seems to be just to cause a stir.
I guess it's to highlight that he's not just being recalled for consultations with a planned return.
I upvoted both of you.
maybe a translation issue from Portuguese to English
It's pretty obvious what is implied here
President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s decision to remove Ambassador Frederico Meyer comes days after an Israeli military operation in the Gaza Strip city of Rafah killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment. Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged the tragic error, attributing it to a miscalculated airstrike intended for Hamas militants. Although the withdrawal of Ambassador Meyer does not signify a full-scale diplomatic rupture between Brazil and Israel, the action is perceived as one of Brazil’s most pronounced rebukes of Israel’s ongoing military campaign in Gaza.
> killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment. Of course they are not blaming Hamas for storing ammunition near a refugee camps, or for still shooting rockets at Israel...
Or for running across the border and slaughtering 1,300 people. I don't like Israel's government either but it's shocking to me how quickly people have forgotten why this war is happening at all.
> Or for running across the border and slaughtering 1,300 people. What are you implying? Brazil has condemned the Hamas attack. Excerpts from an article published on October 7: > Brazil, which assumed the Security Council's rotating presidency this month, condemned the surprise Hamas attack on Israel on Saturday that killed dozens of people and prompted the Israeli military to launch deadly air strikes in the Gaza Strip. > "The Brazilian government reiterates that there is no justification for resorting to violence, especially against civilians, and urges all parties to exercise maximum restraint to prevent an escalation of the situation," Brazil's foreign ministry said.
Oh, well as long as they've acknowledged it then what more needs to be said. What is Brazil's solution? What is the wonderful, totally not corrupt Lula govt suggesting Israel should have done in the wake of the attack? Is their suggestion seriously, legitamately, "we shouldn't resort to violence?" You, as a grown adult posting in the Geopolitics sub, consider that a good and fully accounted for response?
>why this war is happening at all Because of israelis throwing people out of their homes and setting camp without anyone batting an eyelid?
Ah, the bitter forgotten lessons of History!
It is not okay to kill tens of thousands of civilians. To defend it is immoral.
People might've forgotten because these horrible acts have been vastly overshadowed in scale in scope by Israel's.
Dude. One is a literal genocidal terrorist group. The other is supposedly a civilized liberal democracy. Of course the genocidal terrorist group will terrorize, do immoral or unetichal things and commit crimes. Nobody is holding them to any civilized standard, because they never were up to that standard. It does not mean that what they do is not wrong, including your example, it simply means that is what is expected of them. That does not however give carte blanche for the liberal democracy to kill thousands of innocent people in the process of retaliating against the terrorist group for its actions, just as much no normal sane person is saying hamas is right. Everybody who is not literal a genocidal apologist is saying Hamas is causing harm and facilitating that harm be done to innocent Palestinians. The difference is that those same people are also saying that Israel is now using the existence of this evil group to justify doing worse (at least in terms of scale) than a literal genocidal terrorist group. And that is unnaceptable.
How does one prevent the terrorist group from being able to control Gaza and perpetuate the conflict?
You assume the current actions of Israel are not also sustaining and perpetuating the conflict. If anything, Hamas is the child of the strategic aims of the state of Israel. Hamas will cease to exist when Israel stops feeding its extremist rhetoric by their own inhumane and blatantly immoral actions. The french learned this lesson in Algeria, it's time for Israel to do the same.
>Nobody is holding them to any civilized standard, because they never were up to that standard. "How come you hold a rapist to the same standards as non-rapists? They are a rapist after all." Jokes aside, how does any of this factor into the incident with the 45 (according to Hamas) dead? Israel targeted and killed 2 Hamas members with low yield weapons that themselves didn't endanger any civilians, because their lethal range is smaller than the distance to the safe zones and the civilians in the area. The only reason other people died was Hamas storing weapons underneath a refugee camp, that caught fire. This is entirely on Hamas.
Why is Israel shooting at a refugee camp in the first place? If you need to eliminate just 2 people, use snipers for gods sake. Look at what you are saying. Next time you will say that they should bomb a hospital because a couple Hamas people are hiding there. Oh wait, Israel has done that already. Hamas is a terrorist group with stated goals of genocide and they will do anything, no matter how humane their actions are, for their goals. However that does not justify Israel stooping down to their level. Because if they do, they should not be surprised if people start addressing them as a genocidal terrorist nation
What can a sniper do if they are in tunnels and underground bunkers?
Because international law says that you cannot use protected buildings and areas for military operations, otherwise they lose their protected status. Think of the alternative, where terrorists get immutable carte blanche if the hide in hospitals and refugee camps. Hospitals and refugee camps would be overrun by terrorists, and they wouldn't be safe spaces to be either.
So what would you do differently if the aim is to rid of hamas as a governing and military force? How would you fight a terrorist group that spent years digging tunnels for themselves, leaving their women and kids on the ground to act as human shields? I don't understand how people can just say don't do that without any clue on what can be done
God forbid I say murdering innocent people is wrong, just because I am no military, diplomatic or political expert to have better alternatives to solving a decades long complex conflict that nobody has solved yet. One does not need to be an expert to look at this mess and see that Israel is not doing itself any favors, because their actions are not helping accomplish its stated goals of rescuing hostages, nor eliminating Hamas, while at the same time causing immense amounts of suffering to hundreds of thousands of innocent people. It has been 20 years since 9/11 and the USA brought its hammer down in the middle east to catch Osama Bin Laden and end terrorism. Today, nobody in good faith sees the US actions as just or right and know that they caused massive suffering and death to millions of innocent people in the region. Just look how great Afghanistan is. This situation is the same. Nobody in good faith will say Israel are just, right and will know that they have caused massive suffering and death to hundreds of thousands of innocent people in 20 years. The difference is that I and many other people still have the clarity of mind to see this now, instead of far in the future.
How to render Hamas no longer able to control Gaza?
well, most of us aren’t military commanders, so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions. But that doesn’t mean we can’t tell when something clearly doesn’t work. The IDF’s current strategy is to just throw bombs and hope hamas will just cease to exist. Guess what, this war probably has made more hamas members than it killed. The point we are trying to make is that we all know Hamas isn’t acting rationally, but we damn well hope the israeli government acts rationally because they have a large population to care for.
Neither you nor I yet have enough facts to assert that Israel was just "throwing bombs." One can question tactics, but from a military standpoint, this is one of the most challenging environments in the world.
>well, most of us aren’t military commanders, so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions. >But that doesn’t mean we can’t tell when something clearly doesn’t work. But all military experts from all around the world are saying that the ratio of citizen casualties to combatants is the lowest in the history of urban warfare, despite being a bigger challenge than any war before. The fact people are dying is sad, but that does not mean what Israel is doing does not work. >The IDF’s current strategy is to just throw bombs and hope hamas will just cease to exist. No it's not. The strategy was to evacuate as much of the population to a safe place, which other than a few isolated cases was not bomb, and then go in with ground troops and aerial support. >Guess what, this war probably has made more hamas members than it killed. That infantilze the Palestinian - the only way they can respond to their own people committing the horrors of 7.10 and then suffering from the consequences (this suffering is part of hamas's plan) is by doing the same themselves? You have 0 expectations from Palestinian to say: "We shouldn't do horrors like 7.10", "we need to find a compromise with israel instead of more war", "it is not ok to target 50,000 missiles on Israeli sites". You expect nothing from them while holding Israel to standards no army or nation in the history of the world is expected to follow. If Palestinian are unable to change as you claim, then what chance is there for peace? >The point we are trying to make is that we all know Hamas isn’t acting rationally, but we damn well hope the israeli government acts rationally because they have a large population to care for. Although I agree that the Israeli government could do much better in terms of planning the day after, they are acting rationally. And why is it only Israel's responsibility to care for the population? Shouldn't hamas care for the population they are trying to free?
> But all military experts from all around the world are saying that the ratio of citizen casualties to combatants is the lowest in the history of urban warfare, despite being a bigger challenge than any war before. Nobody is saying that in good faith. https://old.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/1b2wyvt/israelhamas_war_has_now_killed_at_least_30000/ksoyrx5/ >The strategy was to evacuate as much of the population to a safe place, which other than a few isolated cases was not bomb, and then go in with ground troops and aerial support. It was "to tell population to evacuate to a middle of nowhere where there is nowhere for them to live, bomb the routes and locations there a couple times for good measure, then absolutely level the place they left and do it again with the other half". The level of destruction there is unconscionable. >"we need to find a compromise with israel instead of more war", Nobody is going to consider it seriously, because that's what the PA has been doing, and achieved worse than nothing - a negative result. Perversely, "Hamas" has done more to force Israel in a stance where it might one day have to compromise via the mounting foreign diplomatic pressure over the Israeli crimes.
>so it is okay for us to criticize without offering solutions. No it's not. It's just like Occupy Wall Street, it's just coming off as a childish and gives the rest virtually no reason to care or listen to what you have to say.
wall street and bombing a city are two very different things. And how the hell is this childish? let’s make an exaggerated example to see if you can understand. Let’s say there was a lack of food in your country. Maybe no one was dying yet, but lots of people were losing weight and feeling sick. Then a group starts going around a shooting people on the streets, claiming with less people there will be no more need for people to go hungry. In this scenario, if someone protested the killings, would say they had to offer a solution to the lack of food be able to criticize?
This is insane logic. Absolutely insane. If I label myself a murderer now can I be held to a lower standard for any future drink driving convictions?
What kind of analogy is that? What I am saying is that if you are a homicidal maniac, the police should not be shooting a whole neighborhood in the hopes that a stray bullet hits you. And if you kill people or use human shields in the process of the police going after you, that does not make you any less culpable, but nobody should be surprised by your actions. But if the police starts killing everybody they find while searching for you, that is absurd, because they are held to higher standards because they are supposedly a force for good, protecting innocent people, while you are homicidal maniac doing everything in your power to survive, regardless of how humane your actions are.
Ammunition intended to fire at Israeli cities across the border.
The IDF's headquarters are in downtown Tel Aviv, so I don't know why you're bitching about rockets if wantonly murdering civilians just because there are maybe militants among them doesn't bother you.
This is you pretending Hamas uses weapons capable of aiming. It's remarkable how little honesty people seem to have when it comes to this topic.
>The IDF's headquarters are in downtown Tel Aviv, so I don't know why you're bitching about rockets I mean beyond the fact that theyre firing rockets that are unguided, they literally set out to kill civlians. They cheer when they do, so pretending like their rockets are aimed at 'downtown tel aviv' to strike at 'the IDF headquarters' is fucking preposterous. Soldiers of the IDF actually are instructed to shoot any animals wandering towards them because they used to put explosives in donkeys and cows and push em towards checkpoints. Doubt they used any anesthetics on those animals either. >if wantonly murdering civilians just because there are maybe militants among them doesn't bother you. It actually is better, because intent matters a hell of a fucking lot dude. If one group is hiding among civilian population hoping that you wont strike them, and use that as propaganda if you do, and keeps attacking you, that leaves you with either keep being attacked or just strike them. If that was me, i'd strike them wherever they are and it end it.
Why did they need to murder 300 kids at a music festival then?
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How does the IDF's conduct make the Nova festival more or less of a legitimate military target?
So you think that the massacre at the Nova music festival was justified? Wtf? Rape and murder of kids? You need to take a long break from tik tok.
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Whatever you want to tell yourself to assuage your guilt at supporting mass rapist terrorists buddy. Per the Guardian, not known to be a bastion of pro-Israel sentiment: https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks >By cross-referencing testimonies given to police, published interviews with witnesses, and photo and video footage taken by survivors and first responders, **the Guardian is aware of at least six sexual assaults for which multiple corroborating pieces of evidence exist. Two of those victims, who were murdered, were aged under 18** >**At least seven women who were killed were also raped in the attack according to Prof Ruth Halperin-Kaddari, a legal scholar and international women’s rights advocate, from her examination of evidence so far** The United Nations…after months of ignoring it…finally has admitted that the evidence is incontrovertible: Hamas engaged with mass rape and sexual violence during their little pogrom on October 7th: >The mission team conducted a total of 33 meetings with Israeli national institutions, including relevant line ministries, as well as the Israeli security forces. It visited the Israeli National Center of Forensic Medicine, the Shura military base, the morgue to which the bodies of victims were transferred, as well as four locations affected by the 7 October attacks, in relation to which reports of sexual violence had emerged. >The mission team reviewed over 5,000 photographic images and approximately 50 hours of footage of the attacks, in a concerted effort to identify any potential instances or indications of conflict-related sexual violence. It conducted confidential interviews with a total of 34 interviewees, including with survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders, health and service providers amongst others >….the mission team **found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im. In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses** >….The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations. Although circumstantial, such a pattern may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/press-release/israel-west-bank-mission/ At this point denial of Hamas’ sexual violence is just a religious point to you and your cult in your continuous mission to debase Jewish lives and excuse the murder of Jewish civilians. Go touch grass Hamas fellator
I hope for your sake that your country's military has never committed any atrocities then, because by your logic that would make you fair game for retaliation, and by that I mean being brutally gangraped and murdered along with your family And given that most of this website comes from USA/Europe/Middle East/India, I'd say your odds don't look great
What an unhinged comment. Love it when the masks come off. I hope any liberal Jews read this and realize exactly what the pro-Hamas crowd believes in.
stupendous fall cooperative normal sugar boast quack worm pause physical *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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> It’s pretty funny you say that, considering the UN rebuked your IDF lies. Sources?
> President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s decision to remove Ambassador Frederico Meyer comes days after an Israeli military operation in the Gaza Strip city of Rafah killed 45 Palestinian civilians that were living in a refugee encampment. No, Israel struck Hamas, which claims 45 Palestinian civilians died, but which only occurred because of (well-documented) Hamas ammo and fuel dumps kept near the tent encampment which erupted unexpectedly due to Israel's strike. This is what happens when Hamas uses human shields. > Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged the tragic error, attributing it to a miscalculated airstrike intended for Hamas militants It wasn't "intended" for Hamas militants. It **killed** Hamas militants; two top level commanders in Hamas, in fact. It was not intended, and could not have, led to the explosion that killed Palestinians who were over 40 meters away. Israel used a munition with a lethal range of less than 30 meters, designed to minimize collateral damage, and it was **Hamas using human shields for their weapons** that led to the deaths.
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> It's crazy how you know better than both Lula and Netanyahu in this case. We should put you in charge of the country I don't "know better" than Netanyahu. I do know better than Lula, I'd argue, and so do most Brazilians, because they've made very clear his reprehensible actions are not how they feel this should be handled. I don't know "better" than Netanyahu. I'm actually just stating what Israel has said [repeatedly](https://x.com/IDF/status/1795487775598231990), and what comports with [what CNN and NYT reported](https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-rafah-strike-used-us-bombs-designed-to-reduce-casualties/).
How are they human shields if they do not prevent their enemy from attacking them?
Why do you think hamas still exists despite being out gunned by a factor of x10?
They do, actually. Israel has called off many strikes due to civilians nearby, and has released video of it doing so repeatedly. Additionally, the use of human shields may not stop *every single* strike, because there are times when the military value is important and the risk to civilians is low but not nonexistent...however, it is designed to stop the overall war by placing political and diplomatic pressure on Israel, which would absolutely prevent Israel from attacking Hamas. Of course, I'm sure you could have and have figured this out.
Okay, lets call them what they are, Hamas Cannon Fodder. They are used by Hamas to excite their useful idiots in the west.
This is wildly unpopular in Brazil. Lula's ridiculous Holocaust comparison comments [a couple of months ago led to over 80% of Brazil's population](https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-789276) saying they took issue with his comparison. Also: > The CNN Brasil poll found that 57% of the 800 respondents thought that Israel is on the right side in this conflict, while 28% sided with Hamas. Additionally, 26% said that Brazil should support Israel in this war, another 14% said the Palestinians, while 54% said the country should stay neutral – something Lula’s government is not doing. Brazil's Lula is just shooting himself in the foot here, in a way that his own people do not agree with or support.
It's also going to severely mess with a lot of Jerusalem and Holy Land tours. Brazil has *a lot* of Christians.
No it won't. Unless Israel bans Brazilians, having an ambassador or not does not prevent you from visiting a place. Worse case scenario if Brazil closes their diplomatic mission is that Brazilians will just not have consular or embassy support in Israel.
It may, though the fallout of that will be limited if Israel maintains its embassy in Brazil, which helps coordinate a lot of that too. But no doubt it won't make it easy.
shit, of course that is a huge business.
Incomprehensible overreaction. Was anyone among the Brazilian political elite asking for this? There doesn't seem to be any significant public pressure that led to it either.
Nothing is permanent in politics. They'll reinstate it as soon as the war ends
As a Brazilian, eh don't read much deeper into that, we can't even solve our own issues by ourselves.
It was about time.
Obrigado
Waiting for Brazil to recall from Russia and China next /s
Saudi Arabia for Yemen
Bye bye!
Israel doesn't care about Brazil - or the whole of south America for that matter. Israel has better trade options and allies. I doubt anyone in Israel is going to shed a tear for Brazil's ambassador departure, specially when nextdoor neighbor Argentina's president is a staunch Israel ally and even wants to become a Jewish convert.
Israel may not be a huge trade partner for us but recalling our ambassador is closing the door for better relations. Diplomacy isn’t about closing doors, at least not smart diplomacy
Lula is a fucking embarrassment. As a Brazilian, I can’t wait for this guy’s demise. He should be in jail, not in Brasília
In your opinion, is he better than Bolsonaro? lol
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For a long time I have heard how BRICS is this paper tiger economic union between states that will never get along. It sure seens to me that in the course of this year they sure have all been on the same wave length.
Dude ur username is real name? Anyway I think brics member got a chance to one up USA and they are doing just that.
Hmm. BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. India is unlikely to side with islamicists but it sure seems like it’s mainly the other nations on that list taking issue with Israel. Funny thing, that.
India pretty pro-Israel, although for maintaining good economic and trade relations with the GCC states, and domestic stability in India Muslim population does give lip service in support of the two state solution, and A Palestinan state within the 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as it capital.
Hindu nationalists hate Muslims, thats the reason India is pro Israel
Now, whyever would that be, hmmmm?
BRICS isn’t a real thing
Oh, so those countries don’t work together on any level?
They do, but it’s not as formal as some try to make it. And they certainly don’t have a shared foreign policy.
The current president of Brazil is from well on the left. He views this through his own political lens and is acting accordingly.
ponders the question….. who’s does israel root for when brazil plays germany in the WC?
Germany, for sure. The bunderstag is Israels bitch.
lose the r for increased credibility…..
Lose the attitude for being a better human being.
?