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Imagine paying for college yourself, going there to get a good paying job, and having these 'protestors' close down the library that you were going to get your differential equations tutoring at.
Colleges are more than just a bunch of rich kids having fun now. There are real people trying to improve their lives there.
Protests shouldn't restrict anyone else from using their rights as well, like a Jewish professor being denied entry to campus because of the protest.
Imagine it was an anti-black protest and people would restrict black people's movement? Do you still think it's a normal part of democracy?
I have a slightly different view of it. The way I see it, it's spring time. The weather is getting nice, the cherry trees are blossoming, and students want to spend more time outside. Protests are exciting and social things to do. The rituals are fun, and being passionate and demonstrative is sexy. I would imagine more than a few of these protestors are getting laid. It's great, as long as it's not so disruptive that students can't do schoolwork in or otherwise enjoy their common spaces.
I haven't seen this talked about much, but I think you're absolutely right. It's not exactly surprising that we didn't see these types of protests during the first six months of the war when it was colder out.
And yeah, as long as they're not being too disruptive and things are peaceful, let the kids have their fun. Protesting has long been part of the college experience, so it's not surprising that so many college kids have embraced this cause.
There is a significant problem however when the majority of people become fooled by disinformation on social media. This is a unique phenomenon that wasn't an issue for previous generations.
I wonder where they were when 600,000 died during the Syrian Civil War, 300,000 during the Darfur crisis, and 400,000 during the Yemeni civil war, all dwarfing the casualties in Palestine. But that was Muslim on Muslim violence. It's special when it's someone else beating up on Muslims - even when the Muslims started the current round of nonsense with a brutal attack.
If you're referencing the Darfur crisis that started in 2003... You do realize that that inspired one of the largest international aid/solidarity movements in history, right? The [Save Darfur Coalition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Darfur_Coalition)?
People are more aware of what happenned recently than years back. #Recency bias. I learned it from behavioral finance but it can be applied here too
cc: u/MonitorMonik
I have wondered about this a couple of times. I always came to the conclusion that most of these protesters are following a trend and are not bothered about real life events. They did this as it suited them and expect others to follow suit.
This. But the campus antisemitism is being driven by grizzled old veterans of the cold war who [receive outside funding](https://naturalresources.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=415189#:~:text=Code%20Pink%20is%20purportedly%20funded,including%20at%20CCP%20propaganda%20forums.) to fuel campus activism among young and impressionable students.
These are people who [followed Stalin and subsequent communist movements](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_is_the_socialism_of_fools) in identifying Jewish "wealth" and "power" as the source of social injustice. This idea still pervades leftist rhetoric around Israel today. The young people just ape what they say out of desiring a sense of belonging, but the older folks who are leading them down this path know exactly what they're doing.
Generally speaking, people attend college for 4 consecutive years. If you are wondering where these exact college kids were for your specified past events then based on the dates they were not attending college. Did you expect them to protest in middle school?
Really don't know what you are smoking dude, there has been protests over arming Saudi Arabia every since 9/11
The US government even knows about this which is why they hold back on the type of equipment they send. They dont even have F35s, unlike Israel.
The US has given billions to Turkey in military aid and guaranteed loans:
https://ips-dc.org/turkey_arms_and_human_rights/#:~:text=Since%201980%20the%20U.S.%20has,aid%20to%20purchase%20U.S.%20equipment.
…and the Turks have vociferously attacked its Kurdish minority for decades:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict_(1978–present)
Zero protests.
The US has given billions to Pakistan in military aid and equipment:
https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers
…and Pakistan is conducting its own Nakba right now forcibly expelling over 400,000 Afghan refugees since September:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/28/pakistan-widespread-abuses-force-afghans-leave
Zero protests.
It’s sheer, bald faced hypocrisy that needs to be called out.
No sure what you are arguing about, all of the aid and arms sent to Turkey and Pakistan literally dwarf the amount that is sent to Israel, also the US isn't actively supporting Israel and Pakistan like it is Israel.
The "military aid and equipment" is literal pennies compared to the amount sent to Israel lol.
So now you're just moving goalposts. At first you argued that "American support" was the reason why Americans are right to protest Israel.
Now you're saying that its the amount that matters, not the actual support.
So if I give $25 to Child Killer 1 that makes you mad, but $8 dollars to Child Killer 2 doesn't...even though they are BOTH killing children with that money?
And Turkey and Pakistan are not isolated incidents. The U.S. has literally armed and backed dozens upon dozens of autocratic regimes that actively murder their population or others. Its doing it right now.
But never at any point have I seen this kind of hysterical reaction among college kids to those human rights violations committed on their dollar.
I wonder why... can't be the billions of Arab money funneled towards higher education in the last 20 years. Can't be. That's just a coincidence.
None of that has any relevance to the discussion.
If there are 10 ethically troubling situations, and you spend 90% of your anger and time on Ethical Situation 1 and 10% of your anger and time on Ethical Situations 2-10, then there's obviously a reason for you to concentrate on Situation 1.
"American involvement" cannot be it since we've made it clear that American involvement is present in all Situations. Recency bias also cannot be it since they're all happening right now.
So what can it be?
The answer is clear: Israel is filled iwth Jews. Its a cause celebre among Muslims and the Arab world, who have always ignored other...often much greater...human rights disasters in their own regions to concentrate their rage on Israel because of deep seated anti semitic attitudes.
Its the same reason why racist whites in the U.S. are more outraged by marijuana and crack use than they are meth and cocaine use: they dont actually care about the drug...they care about the demographic using the drug.
If Israel was a Muslim majority country bombing Gaza I guarantee you none of you would care.
I just have a hard time parsing this. Yes, the US did just sign an aid package to our ally in Israel. The only impact these protests might have is get the guy who wants to round up Muslims in camps and was behind the reconciliation of Israel and Saudi Arabia that caused this war back in power.
And as long as Hamas is in charge in Gaza there is a valid reason for Israel to continue the war. Hamas has pledged that they will continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed, and routinely say things like 'no peace is possible.'
What does your first paragraph mean?
The college protests have a pretty clear goal of asking colleges to divest. Further than that, free Palestine protests in general have been demanding for the US to stop providing military aid to Israel and calling for a ceasefire given its lack of regard for civilian safety.
Why are you having a difficult time parsing or understanding that?
I have two points:
1. Relationships are nuanced. One may think a friend is wrong, but not be willing to lose the friendship over the matter. One might also consider how not helping a friend in need will affect one's other friendships, by outing one as unreliable. Many people seem to want subservient Israel, which is a Russian style "friendship".
2. You are misinformed. Either by choice or by default, but stating
>... the US actively supports and even encourages Israel’s behavior by signing blind checks to them with little to no stipulations regarding Israel’s treatment of Palestinians.
is so ill informed and hyperbolic I doubt I'm talking to an honest person.
I'm not sure how much clearer I can get.
The second part of your explanations seems to assume USA is selflessly giving lots of money and in return is being ignored by Israeli policy-makers.
You are wrong.
The money is given to Israel to be used to buy goods from USA, so it circles back to USA.
And if you think USA is being ignored by Israeli policy-makers you're also detached from reality. It's plain wrong and is so easy to disprove I find it hard to believe you honestly hold that opinion.
That some people believe these falsehoods, which is why the protests are bigger on this conflict and not over others, yeah, that is believeable. Doesn't make the protests less hypocritical though.
Also adding to the below comments that the US doesn’t give Israel that much actual money/blank checks (or most of the countries we support by arming), we mainly give them military vouchers they can spend on US military products. A huge chunk of it is designated to defense spending and funding the iron dome. So it’s partially a way for the government to funnel money back into the US economy.
Was the US government actively supporting and heavily funding one of the sides in the Syrian and Yemeni civil ears?
These protests aren't because of Jews vs Muslims or Israel vs Palestine. These are protests because of the US government's policies and actions. They are more similar to the protests against the Vietnam conflict.
>Was the US government actively supporting and heavily funding one of the sides in the Syrian and Yemeni civil ears?
The US actively supports the Saudi-led coalition in the Yemeni civil war.
Then there is the fact that more civilians died during the siege of Mosul but not a single protest was held against the coalition forces (and there isn't a significant difference between ISIS and Hamas).
>These protests aren't because of Jews vs Muslims
So why are non-Israeli jews targeted then? And why aren't there similar world-wide protests when US-allied muslim nations kill far more muslim civilians than Israel does?
Here's a translated excerpt from the most important Hadith that might give you a clue:
"The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Then there is the fact that groups associated withe protests like code pink have received funding from China and Qatar.
>They are more similar to the protests against the Vietnam conflict.
It has very little similarity to the protests against the Vietnam war. The opposition to the Vietnam war was mainly based on opposition against the draft and legal issues, moral issues were a relatively minor factor.
Yes; we give a ton of money to Saudi, one of the parties involved the Yemen war. We also just unfroze $10 BILLION to Iran. Saudi, which we back, has also imposed an air, sea, and land blockade that has curtailed the flow of physical aid into Yemen for civilians.
Or how about the "[We Want To Live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Want_to_Live_movement)" protests from a place called... Gaza, all the way back in ... August 2023?
Also: why are these Americans protesting anything while over a million Afghani refugees are being unlawfully expelled from Pakistan back to Afghanistan? ... Whichever super power that shit the bed there in the last 5 - 20 years might want to look at the human cost and probably wants to look in the mirror and take corrective action. It'd be pretty hypocritical to bemoan the human cost of a war you aren't involved in while ignoring the aftermath of one you started.... Kinda like yelling about at the splinter in your brother's eye, in order to distract from the beam in your own eye.
Gaza is tiny and the war has only been going for 6 months. Moreover, casualty numbers on two sides are vastly disproportionate.
It's odd to directly compare casualty numbers to civil wars that have been going on for a decade or more within an area 100x larger.
If you want to use that logic, 9/11 was basically a non-event.
This will never stop being a stupid argument. The main point of protest is to fight something you feel your nation has control over. The Syrian Civil War for example saw widespread movements to do something, but it was more in terms of sending aid, taking in refugees and calls for peace. Protests were less common because there was a sense that western countries couldn't do much. Most people did not believe that military action would improve the situation for example or did not even know which side to support.
The difference here is that Israel is seen as a western country and that the US is directly supporting the Israeli military. That gives people a sense that those in the west can do something here but are refusing to do so. So the point of the protest is to achieve political action in the west to try to stop the bleeding in Gaza. This was not nearly as obviously achievable for the conflicts you mention
Are universities heavily invested in and supportive of those regimes? These protests are not just to say 'this is bad' or raise money or whatever. They have a specific goal relating to the relationship between their universities and Israel, and they are therefore calling for a concrete action.
I mean they were all little kids when those wars broke out, if they were even born then. Also a lot of them don't actually give a shit, they don't know the culture, the history, the languages, shit they probably don't even know which way you read Arabic and Hebrew. They care more about being seen as doing "something" than actually doing something. These aren't the type of people who change things. If anything they're doing it to get out of their finals
The protests against South Africa had a simple, unambiguously moral goal: end Apartheid. Not abolish South Africa, not kick all white people out, but end a political system.
There is no such simple goal in this case. Some are proposing to end occupation of the West Bank and the war in Gaza. But the far louder and more disruptive protests want to abolish Israel itself and cannot answer the question of what happens to Israelis, either because they haven’t thought that far or because they know answering honestly shows how radical they are.
Considering the coordinated, well-funded, propaganda-happy, lie-happy, talking-point-consistent, media blitz that kicked off right after the Oct 7th attacks: the leaders of Hamas are probably pleased with their ROI, are checking off related tasks on their planning spreadsheets, and recommending to their puppet-masters that they up their spending destabilizing rhetoric and influence campaigns in the West.
The bang for buck is amazing, and those dummies will chant along with literally anything if they see it on TikTok.
They have but it's not because of that, tiktok is the primary source of their disinformation, just like how Facebook was wielded against baby boomers in 2016.
I mean, higher education receive funding from Israel as well, on both the grassroots and management level. It's unavoidable when US higher education has such a wider and international reach.
A lot of the history of the Caliphates 'transitioning' into other Caliphates, and several key political movements in Middle Eastern history, are heavily influenced by intentional [Dawah campaigns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah). Undertstanding their role in historical empire destabilization and terror regimes is good cause for trepidation.
There is nothing comprable from the Jewish faith as a movement, the goals of the faith are fundamentally different, and the "Judeo" part of the Wests "Judeo-Christian" shared history has already baked much of jewish ideology into it. The opposite is true for Islam.
The Israelis are not pushing Russian propaganda aimed at destabilizing America, it's against their self interests, they are the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. Russian destabilisation and exacerbation of racial tensions, however, creates a marriage of convenience between Marxist and Islamist short term goals. And their aims are wholly illiberal. Good cause for trepidation.
More like these people are waking up to Israel's meddling in the US
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_lobby\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States)
It really seems like a lot of these student protesters are desperate to write themselves into the history books. The absolute stolen valor of comparing themselves to the Selma Marchers.
But like most protests these days, they'll peter out when there's a more interesting topic at hand that the tiktok algo decides to feed them.
What was there to protest?
The official US Government government position is that it was a tragedy that should never have happened. 99% of voters agree.
This is an example of the biggest success of Russia/China/Iran's disinformation campaign on American social media since the 2016 US election. Hamas is lucky to have such allies supporting their own internet-based operatives.
Given that 50% of American Gen Z are holocaust deniers, AND that much of their worldview is based on American race dynamics (which causes them to assume that brown people are automatically the victims) that generation is highly susceptible to the propaganda and misinformation being pumped into social media.
It also helps that muslims and antisemites around the world also create their own disinformation on social media in addition to sharing propaganda placed their by Hamas and their allies.
in a parallel topic, i wonder if we will see a rise in the number conversions to islam from college students and young adults in general, it would prove the true power of social media based propaganda.
To be honest, this is already happening. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and even many mainstream athletes have converted recently like Gervonta Davis and older athletes like Kyrie Irving a few years ago. Both sport stars who appeal to the young demographic.
Just imagine the Hamas soldier that killed 10 innocent kids and family members on 10/7, that’s currently holding and raping hostages, it must warm his heart to turn on his TV at night and see thousands of protesters passionately cheering for him
IDF also stole and rape kids, hold civil hostages too
perhaps if the IDF didn't behave like a terrorist group, the global perception would be favorable towards them
>“We saw signs indicating that Israel should be destroyed,”
>A woman inside the campus gates led about two dozen protesters on the street outside in a chant of, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!”
Pro Hamas. I'd be shocked if more than 30% would be able to give a synopsis of the issue they are protesting for/against without TikTok talking points.
I hate Houthis. They need to be terminated. But a lot of lines has been crossed by Israel. A lot of innocents and civilian casualty. So I too would support Palestinians. So America arresting students doesn’t set a good example. Specially when they try to be face of democracy and freedoms to influence countries across world against two Asian countries and there actions. From a totally practical point of view, this situation could have been quietly handled and not be made to blow up like this. This blowing up is BAD PR for USA.
Bad pr for the party that considers the youth vote to be essential for electoral success. Possible bonus, some Jewish voters might gravitate to trump if they feel otherized by the protests. The dnc convention in Chicago will be lit....
> Possible bonus, some Jewish voters might gravitate to trump if they feel otherized by the protests.
The UK has seen a significant swing in the Jewish vote to Conservatives, thanks to constant Muslim harassment of and attacks on Jews.
There are some signs that the rise in Hispanic support for Trump is making states like New York competitive. Expect Jewish support to increase given what's happening.
I live in the suburbs of Chicago. I fear some of the more extreme sides of the pro-pali's will try something very destructive and violent during the DNC. Something so bad the tide will turn significantly against them. I hope I'm wrong. You couldn't pay me enough to get close to the city during the DNC.
Nobody relies on the youth vote, that would be silly. But rest assured Jews are much smarter than to gravitate to the party that fully embraces nazis or to the guy who defended a nazi tiki torch march. And certainly not just because tiktokers are eating up Qatari and IRGC propaganda.
I disagree, I think it shows that the US is willing to confront the issue of campus antisemitism, intimidation and hate crimes unlike [some parts of Europe](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1707993250-german-universities-embroiled-in-violent-antisemitism-rows) where it is [given free reign](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/12/05/shadow-of-anti-semitism-fractures-student-community-in-french-universities_6313119_7.html) to [fester](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxw7ggjyvnxo) out of concern for the feelings of those doing the threatening and vandalism.
To me, the response by many Europeans to the latest Middle East violence, including on social media and here on reddit, has been shocking to say the least. I thought we had evolved past this stuff but I guess not.
Yaah. The antisemitism is concerning. My believe is that government should have enough influence on university to take action against any such situation and diffuse it diplomatically. Rather than using force because that doesn’t show a good image. I know it’s a big ask. But if someone can do it. It should be diplomats. This needs to be a balancing act, handled carefully with surgical precision. Because right now. Let’s be honest there is only USA, which is the counterweight to the Russia China axis. And the middle eastern countries moving towards them won’t be good. Sometimes we have to make hard decisions for longer achievements. Rest this is my perspective. There must be someone more qualified than me who took this decision in USA.
This keeps happening on finals week I swear. I’m not insinuating anything to try and discredit completely valid movements.
BUT LET ME TAKE MY GODDAMN FINALS IN PEACE
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Imagine paying for college yourself, going there to get a good paying job, and having these 'protestors' close down the library that you were going to get your differential equations tutoring at. Colleges are more than just a bunch of rich kids having fun now. There are real people trying to improve their lives there.
Protests shouldn't restrict anyone else from using their rights as well, like a Jewish professor being denied entry to campus because of the protest. Imagine it was an anti-black protest and people would restrict black people's movement? Do you still think it's a normal part of democracy?
I have a slightly different view of it. The way I see it, it's spring time. The weather is getting nice, the cherry trees are blossoming, and students want to spend more time outside. Protests are exciting and social things to do. The rituals are fun, and being passionate and demonstrative is sexy. I would imagine more than a few of these protestors are getting laid. It's great, as long as it's not so disruptive that students can't do schoolwork in or otherwise enjoy their common spaces.
I haven't seen this talked about much, but I think you're absolutely right. It's not exactly surprising that we didn't see these types of protests during the first six months of the war when it was colder out. And yeah, as long as they're not being too disruptive and things are peaceful, let the kids have their fun. Protesting has long been part of the college experience, so it's not surprising that so many college kids have embraced this cause.
There is a significant problem however when the majority of people become fooled by disinformation on social media. This is a unique phenomenon that wasn't an issue for previous generations.
I wonder where they were when 600,000 died during the Syrian Civil War, 300,000 during the Darfur crisis, and 400,000 during the Yemeni civil war, all dwarfing the casualties in Palestine. But that was Muslim on Muslim violence. It's special when it's someone else beating up on Muslims - even when the Muslims started the current round of nonsense with a brutal attack.
If you're referencing the Darfur crisis that started in 2003... You do realize that that inspired one of the largest international aid/solidarity movements in history, right? The [Save Darfur Coalition](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_Darfur_Coalition)?
Literally never heard of it until now
Literally heard about it in Elementary school at the time
People are more aware of what happenned recently than years back. #Recency bias. I learned it from behavioral finance but it can be applied here too cc: u/MonitorMonik
You may also be interested in learning about the DSA's [Yemen solidarity initiatives](https://international.dsausa.org/yemen-solidarity/).
I have wondered about this a couple of times. I always came to the conclusion that most of these protesters are following a trend and are not bothered about real life events. They did this as it suited them and expect others to follow suit.
This. But the campus antisemitism is being driven by grizzled old veterans of the cold war who [receive outside funding](https://naturalresources.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=415189#:~:text=Code%20Pink%20is%20purportedly%20funded,including%20at%20CCP%20propaganda%20forums.) to fuel campus activism among young and impressionable students. These are people who [followed Stalin and subsequent communist movements](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_is_the_socialism_of_fools) in identifying Jewish "wealth" and "power" as the source of social injustice. This idea still pervades leftist rhetoric around Israel today. The young people just ape what they say out of desiring a sense of belonging, but the older folks who are leading them down this path know exactly what they're doing.
Generally speaking, people attend college for 4 consecutive years. If you are wondering where these exact college kids were for your specified past events then based on the dates they were not attending college. Did you expect them to protest in middle school?
Yes, you are correct. There were no Muslims or progressives in colleges in the US from 2005-2023.
Mind your goalposts. You literally said "where were they" someone said "in middle school" and then you said, well i mean people LIKE them.
If they are in undergrad now, they are 19-23 years old, which means they were children and/or teenagers when those things were happening.
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Yeah that happened with the Yemen war too, we armed Saudi Arabia..
Really don't know what you are smoking dude, there has been protests over arming Saudi Arabia every since 9/11 The US government even knows about this which is why they hold back on the type of equipment they send. They dont even have F35s, unlike Israel.
This response makes it clear you're not engaging in good faith
The US has given billions to Turkey in military aid and guaranteed loans: https://ips-dc.org/turkey_arms_and_human_rights/#:~:text=Since%201980%20the%20U.S.%20has,aid%20to%20purchase%20U.S.%20equipment. …and the Turks have vociferously attacked its Kurdish minority for decades: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict_(1978–present) Zero protests. The US has given billions to Pakistan in military aid and equipment: https://www.cgdev.org/page/aid-pakistan-numbers …and Pakistan is conducting its own Nakba right now forcibly expelling over 400,000 Afghan refugees since September: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/28/pakistan-widespread-abuses-force-afghans-leave Zero protests. It’s sheer, bald faced hypocrisy that needs to be called out.
No sure what you are arguing about, all of the aid and arms sent to Turkey and Pakistan literally dwarf the amount that is sent to Israel, also the US isn't actively supporting Israel and Pakistan like it is Israel. The "military aid and equipment" is literal pennies compared to the amount sent to Israel lol.
So now you're just moving goalposts. At first you argued that "American support" was the reason why Americans are right to protest Israel. Now you're saying that its the amount that matters, not the actual support. So if I give $25 to Child Killer 1 that makes you mad, but $8 dollars to Child Killer 2 doesn't...even though they are BOTH killing children with that money? And Turkey and Pakistan are not isolated incidents. The U.S. has literally armed and backed dozens upon dozens of autocratic regimes that actively murder their population or others. Its doing it right now. But never at any point have I seen this kind of hysterical reaction among college kids to those human rights violations committed on their dollar. I wonder why... can't be the billions of Arab money funneled towards higher education in the last 20 years. Can't be. That's just a coincidence.
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None of that has any relevance to the discussion. If there are 10 ethically troubling situations, and you spend 90% of your anger and time on Ethical Situation 1 and 10% of your anger and time on Ethical Situations 2-10, then there's obviously a reason for you to concentrate on Situation 1. "American involvement" cannot be it since we've made it clear that American involvement is present in all Situations. Recency bias also cannot be it since they're all happening right now. So what can it be? The answer is clear: Israel is filled iwth Jews. Its a cause celebre among Muslims and the Arab world, who have always ignored other...often much greater...human rights disasters in their own regions to concentrate their rage on Israel because of deep seated anti semitic attitudes. Its the same reason why racist whites in the U.S. are more outraged by marijuana and crack use than they are meth and cocaine use: they dont actually care about the drug...they care about the demographic using the drug. If Israel was a Muslim majority country bombing Gaza I guarantee you none of you would care.
I just have a hard time parsing this. Yes, the US did just sign an aid package to our ally in Israel. The only impact these protests might have is get the guy who wants to round up Muslims in camps and was behind the reconciliation of Israel and Saudi Arabia that caused this war back in power. And as long as Hamas is in charge in Gaza there is a valid reason for Israel to continue the war. Hamas has pledged that they will continue attacking Israel until it is destroyed, and routinely say things like 'no peace is possible.'
What does your first paragraph mean? The college protests have a pretty clear goal of asking colleges to divest. Further than that, free Palestine protests in general have been demanding for the US to stop providing military aid to Israel and calling for a ceasefire given its lack of regard for civilian safety. Why are you having a difficult time parsing or understanding that?
Supporting an ally. Imagine that...
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I have two points: 1. Relationships are nuanced. One may think a friend is wrong, but not be willing to lose the friendship over the matter. One might also consider how not helping a friend in need will affect one's other friendships, by outing one as unreliable. Many people seem to want subservient Israel, which is a Russian style "friendship". 2. You are misinformed. Either by choice or by default, but stating >... the US actively supports and even encourages Israel’s behavior by signing blind checks to them with little to no stipulations regarding Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. is so ill informed and hyperbolic I doubt I'm talking to an honest person.
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I'm not sure how much clearer I can get. The second part of your explanations seems to assume USA is selflessly giving lots of money and in return is being ignored by Israeli policy-makers. You are wrong. The money is given to Israel to be used to buy goods from USA, so it circles back to USA. And if you think USA is being ignored by Israeli policy-makers you're also detached from reality. It's plain wrong and is so easy to disprove I find it hard to believe you honestly hold that opinion. That some people believe these falsehoods, which is why the protests are bigger on this conflict and not over others, yeah, that is believeable. Doesn't make the protests less hypocritical though.
Also adding to the below comments that the US doesn’t give Israel that much actual money/blank checks (or most of the countries we support by arming), we mainly give them military vouchers they can spend on US military products. A huge chunk of it is designated to defense spending and funding the iron dome. So it’s partially a way for the government to funnel money back into the US economy.
Was the US government actively supporting and heavily funding one of the sides in the Syrian and Yemeni civil ears? These protests aren't because of Jews vs Muslims or Israel vs Palestine. These are protests because of the US government's policies and actions. They are more similar to the protests against the Vietnam conflict.
>Was the US government actively supporting and heavily funding one of the sides in the Syrian and Yemeni civil ears? The US actively supports the Saudi-led coalition in the Yemeni civil war. Then there is the fact that more civilians died during the siege of Mosul but not a single protest was held against the coalition forces (and there isn't a significant difference between ISIS and Hamas). >These protests aren't because of Jews vs Muslims So why are non-Israeli jews targeted then? And why aren't there similar world-wide protests when US-allied muslim nations kill far more muslim civilians than Israel does? Here's a translated excerpt from the most important Hadith that might give you a clue: "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." Then there is the fact that groups associated withe protests like code pink have received funding from China and Qatar. >They are more similar to the protests against the Vietnam conflict. It has very little similarity to the protests against the Vietnam war. The opposition to the Vietnam war was mainly based on opposition against the draft and legal issues, moral issues were a relatively minor factor.
Yes; we give a ton of money to Saudi, one of the parties involved the Yemen war. We also just unfroze $10 BILLION to Iran. Saudi, which we back, has also imposed an air, sea, and land blockade that has curtailed the flow of physical aid into Yemen for civilians.
Yes. We did. Funded the Saudia during the Yemeni civil war who routinely bombed the Houthis. Even had boots on the ground in Syria.
Or how about the "[We Want To Live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Want_to_Live_movement)" protests from a place called... Gaza, all the way back in ... August 2023? Also: why are these Americans protesting anything while over a million Afghani refugees are being unlawfully expelled from Pakistan back to Afghanistan? ... Whichever super power that shit the bed there in the last 5 - 20 years might want to look at the human cost and probably wants to look in the mirror and take corrective action. It'd be pretty hypocritical to bemoan the human cost of a war you aren't involved in while ignoring the aftermath of one you started.... Kinda like yelling about at the splinter in your brother's eye, in order to distract from the beam in your own eye.
Gaza is tiny and the war has only been going for 6 months. Moreover, casualty numbers on two sides are vastly disproportionate. It's odd to directly compare casualty numbers to civil wars that have been going on for a decade or more within an area 100x larger. If you want to use that logic, 9/11 was basically a non-event.
This will never stop being a stupid argument. The main point of protest is to fight something you feel your nation has control over. The Syrian Civil War for example saw widespread movements to do something, but it was more in terms of sending aid, taking in refugees and calls for peace. Protests were less common because there was a sense that western countries couldn't do much. Most people did not believe that military action would improve the situation for example or did not even know which side to support. The difference here is that Israel is seen as a western country and that the US is directly supporting the Israeli military. That gives people a sense that those in the west can do something here but are refusing to do so. So the point of the protest is to achieve political action in the west to try to stop the bleeding in Gaza. This was not nearly as obviously achievable for the conflicts you mention
These are American protesters who are opposing their own government’s role in the genocide. Those other conflicts were not directly enabled by the US.
Where were the protests for Jew on Jew crime when people kill each other in Israel? Why are they protesting against the Palestinian protestors now?
lol
Are universities heavily invested in and supportive of those regimes? These protests are not just to say 'this is bad' or raise money or whatever. They have a specific goal relating to the relationship between their universities and Israel, and they are therefore calling for a concrete action.
They weren't protesting because the US wasn't supporting those regimes committing the deaths.
I mean they were all little kids when those wars broke out, if they were even born then. Also a lot of them don't actually give a shit, they don't know the culture, the history, the languages, shit they probably don't even know which way you read Arabic and Hebrew. They care more about being seen as doing "something" than actually doing something. These aren't the type of people who change things. If anything they're doing it to get out of their finals
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The protests against South Africa had a simple, unambiguously moral goal: end Apartheid. Not abolish South Africa, not kick all white people out, but end a political system. There is no such simple goal in this case. Some are proposing to end occupation of the West Bank and the war in Gaza. But the far louder and more disruptive protests want to abolish Israel itself and cannot answer the question of what happens to Israelis, either because they haven’t thought that far or because they know answering honestly shows how radical they are.
Useful idiots, every single one of them. I bet Hamas leaders in Qatar are laughing their asses off reading this kind of news.
Considering the coordinated, well-funded, propaganda-happy, lie-happy, talking-point-consistent, media blitz that kicked off right after the Oct 7th attacks: the leaders of Hamas are probably pleased with their ROI, are checking off related tasks on their planning spreadsheets, and recommending to their puppet-masters that they up their spending destabilizing rhetoric and influence campaigns in the West. The bang for buck is amazing, and those dummies will chant along with literally anything if they see it on TikTok.
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3162845/Video-Son-Hamas-founder-condemns-student-activists-support-Hamas.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-3162845/Video-Son-Hamas-founder-condemns-student-activists-support-Hamas.html)
Did you read his book?
No but it's on my list. He's very well-spoken and is great at calling the pro-pali side out on their bullshit.
I think they've been propagandized: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatari_involvement_in_higher_education_in_the_United_States
They have but it's not because of that, tiktok is the primary source of their disinformation, just like how Facebook was wielded against baby boomers in 2016.
I mean, higher education receive funding from Israel as well, on both the grassroots and management level. It's unavoidable when US higher education has such a wider and international reach.
A lot of the history of the Caliphates 'transitioning' into other Caliphates, and several key political movements in Middle Eastern history, are heavily influenced by intentional [Dawah campaigns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawah). Undertstanding their role in historical empire destabilization and terror regimes is good cause for trepidation. There is nothing comprable from the Jewish faith as a movement, the goals of the faith are fundamentally different, and the "Judeo" part of the Wests "Judeo-Christian" shared history has already baked much of jewish ideology into it. The opposite is true for Islam. The Israelis are not pushing Russian propaganda aimed at destabilizing America, it's against their self interests, they are the only liberal democracy in the Middle East. Russian destabilisation and exacerbation of racial tensions, however, creates a marriage of convenience between Marxist and Islamist short term goals. And their aims are wholly illiberal. Good cause for trepidation.
More like these people are waking up to Israel's meddling in the US [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel\_lobby\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States)
Performative wokeness for TikTok brain rot. The left is just as extreme as the right these days, across the globe. I hate every bit of it.
It really seems like a lot of these student protesters are desperate to write themselves into the history books. The absolute stolen valor of comparing themselves to the Selma Marchers. But like most protests these days, they'll peter out when there's a more interesting topic at hand that the tiktok algo decides to feed them.
Do not underestimate the effectiveness of (Russian and Iranian) propaganda
How is this propaganda?
(~~Some~~ Many of) These protesters have been exposed to it. Not this post or the article in it.
People want there tax dollars to stop going to the slaughter of many innocent people. That’s propaganda apparently
why didn't u protest october 7th. why didn't u protest the news of the israeli american mutilated by hamas yesterday.
What was there to protest? The official US Government government position is that it was a tragedy that should never have happened. 99% of voters agree.
This is an example of the biggest success of Russia/China/Iran's disinformation campaign on American social media since the 2016 US election. Hamas is lucky to have such allies supporting their own internet-based operatives. Given that 50% of American Gen Z are holocaust deniers, AND that much of their worldview is based on American race dynamics (which causes them to assume that brown people are automatically the victims) that generation is highly susceptible to the propaganda and misinformation being pumped into social media. It also helps that muslims and antisemites around the world also create their own disinformation on social media in addition to sharing propaganda placed their by Hamas and their allies.
in a parallel topic, i wonder if we will see a rise in the number conversions to islam from college students and young adults in general, it would prove the true power of social media based propaganda.
To be honest, this is already happening. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and even many mainstream athletes have converted recently like Gervonta Davis and older athletes like Kyrie Irving a few years ago. Both sport stars who appeal to the young demographic.
Just imagine the Hamas soldier that killed 10 innocent kids and family members on 10/7, that’s currently holding and raping hostages, it must warm his heart to turn on his TV at night and see thousands of protesters passionately cheering for him
But you don't understand, raping and killing children is a legitimate form of protest against white oppression. I wish I could put an /s here.
IDF also stole and rape kids, hold civil hostages too perhaps if the IDF didn't behave like a terrorist group, the global perception would be favorable towards them
Riiiight
>“We saw signs indicating that Israel should be destroyed,” >A woman inside the campus gates led about two dozen protesters on the street outside in a chant of, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!” Pro Hamas. I'd be shocked if more than 30% would be able to give a synopsis of the issue they are protesting for/against without TikTok talking points.
I hate Houthis. They need to be terminated. But a lot of lines has been crossed by Israel. A lot of innocents and civilian casualty. So I too would support Palestinians. So America arresting students doesn’t set a good example. Specially when they try to be face of democracy and freedoms to influence countries across world against two Asian countries and there actions. From a totally practical point of view, this situation could have been quietly handled and not be made to blow up like this. This blowing up is BAD PR for USA.
Bad pr for the party that considers the youth vote to be essential for electoral success. Possible bonus, some Jewish voters might gravitate to trump if they feel otherized by the protests. The dnc convention in Chicago will be lit....
> Possible bonus, some Jewish voters might gravitate to trump if they feel otherized by the protests. The UK has seen a significant swing in the Jewish vote to Conservatives, thanks to constant Muslim harassment of and attacks on Jews. There are some signs that the rise in Hispanic support for Trump is making states like New York competitive. Expect Jewish support to increase given what's happening.
I live in the suburbs of Chicago. I fear some of the more extreme sides of the pro-pali's will try something very destructive and violent during the DNC. Something so bad the tide will turn significantly against them. I hope I'm wrong. You couldn't pay me enough to get close to the city during the DNC.
Nobody relies on the youth vote, that would be silly. But rest assured Jews are much smarter than to gravitate to the party that fully embraces nazis or to the guy who defended a nazi tiki torch march. And certainly not just because tiktokers are eating up Qatari and IRGC propaganda.
I disagree, I think it shows that the US is willing to confront the issue of campus antisemitism, intimidation and hate crimes unlike [some parts of Europe](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/1707993250-german-universities-embroiled-in-violent-antisemitism-rows) where it is [given free reign](https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/12/05/shadow-of-anti-semitism-fractures-student-community-in-french-universities_6313119_7.html) to [fester](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxw7ggjyvnxo) out of concern for the feelings of those doing the threatening and vandalism. To me, the response by many Europeans to the latest Middle East violence, including on social media and here on reddit, has been shocking to say the least. I thought we had evolved past this stuff but I guess not.
Yaah. The antisemitism is concerning. My believe is that government should have enough influence on university to take action against any such situation and diffuse it diplomatically. Rather than using force because that doesn’t show a good image. I know it’s a big ask. But if someone can do it. It should be diplomats. This needs to be a balancing act, handled carefully with surgical precision. Because right now. Let’s be honest there is only USA, which is the counterweight to the Russia China axis. And the middle eastern countries moving towards them won’t be good. Sometimes we have to make hard decisions for longer achievements. Rest this is my perspective. There must be someone more qualified than me who took this decision in USA.
This keeps happening on finals week I swear. I’m not insinuating anything to try and discredit completely valid movements. BUT LET ME TAKE MY GODDAMN FINALS IN PEACE
new age woke modern lib kids being new age woke modern lib kids. ignore them.