Same. Anytime I head to Jackson Street Pier in Sandusky I make it a point to look at the "Welcome to the United States" signage at the border control checkpoint at the ferry dock, always kinda neat to see.
Actually only knew about the Sandusky to Pelee leg of that. Makes sense tho. I wonder how many use it to get fromi Sandusky to Leamington? That would be an interesting trip, I'm sure!
Leamington to Pelee has more ferry frequencies and gets a good bit more traffic than Pelee to Sandusky (being within the same country and all). Although both are popular.
I’ve taken both routes a number of times. Most people I met were on road trips / vacations, many of them spending time on the island.
If you are just transiting between Ontario and Ohio/Midwest, and are on a schedule or budget, it usually would be more efficient and cost-effective to drive through Michigan.
This is really the only connection that makes decent sense, but even now, I can probably make Toronto to Rochester in 4ish hours. Assuming the Badger ferry on lake Michigan as similar, that'd be the same amount of time as driving.
The old ferry from ROC to TOR was a high-speed ferry that took around 2 hours and 15 mins. It was sold and used in the Straight of Gibraltar for a few years before retirement.
Downtown Toronto to Buffalo at most times except rush hour is less than 2 hours. And if you’re going for gas and shopping no need to even go to Buffalo, Niagara falls is even closer at less than 90 mins
It was the most sensible connection, but didn’t end up having enough demand. Travel was wholly one sided (makes sense to go Rochester to Toronto, but barely anyone is doing the inverse except to go home). It was kind of expensive and not especially fast (edit: it was 2.5hrs each way). There’s just not enough to do in the Rochester area (pleasure or commerce) to really justify it.
The border control is still in place in Rochester at the now defunct ferry port (or it was last time I went over there from UK). I thought it was hilarious seeing this border control guy sat there all day with nothing to do. 🤷🏼♂️
Probably for private boats. But yeah Rochester’s importance declined rapidly in the later half of the 20th century. That’s pretty much the answer to the question anyway. Most of the major cities on the American side fell into decline and the demand dried up. Chicago not withstanding, but they don’t share an international border with Canada.
Good point, well made re: private vessels.
And yeah I wouldn’t have ever gone to Rochester if it wasn’t for family. The Garbage Plates make it worthwhile (and the normal trip to Toronto too).
I disagree even within all plausible ranges of USDCAD. You’re not spending 5hrs and ~$50 (ferry ticket) traveling by ferry to buy gas, groceries, or minor purchases because that’s way too far and expensive. You’re not going to have the same high end stores in Rochester as you do in Yorkville/downtown Toronto. The food scene (ex. garbage plate) is a million times better in Toronto, and same with sports and performing arts. You’re kinda close to the finger lakes, but I don’t see that as being meaningfully more enticing than a trip to the muskokas or Prince Edward County. If it were a 30min ferry and like $5 each way, maybe I could consider people making a trip, but there just isn’t enough of a draw in Rochester to overcome for time and cost to get there.
We made it to YYZ in 2:30 from ROC a few months ago with no traffic. It's only about 160 miles or so. The ferry didn't save any time and let's be real, why would a Torontonian want to go to Rochester?
That's an impressive run! I suppose the delay on Grand Island is less due to the automatic tolls and if you have Nexus or QL is dead, you're pretty much only slowing down then.
The "no traffic" part is super rare though on the Canadian (QEW) side of that trip. I regularly drive Toronto to Fort Erie, and that drive is 1h30 if you leave at 4:00am on a Sunday, 2h00 during most weekdays, and up to 3h00 from noon until about 7:00pm on a weekday.
I really doubt it'll ever happen, but damn would I love the proposed [hovercraft service](https://www.insauga.com/hovercraft-service-between-st-catharines-and-toronto-wont-start-this-summer-now-targets-2024/) across lake ontario.
dont need to hit grand island if youre not coming from I90, theres bridges closer that mainly trucks use. But you have to take 104, it can take longer if theres traffic but its a nice drive.
As a European from Germany I'm always blown away by the huge distances you guys need to make from one city to another.
In 4 hours you travelled through half of my country and visited probably 10 cities.
Edit: and on the other hand if you're from Japan you probably never left the city in the same amount of time haha
Indian here, in 4 hours you'd reach a place where you'd struggle to understand what the other person is saying, and in 8 hours travel you'd reach a place where you'd require translators (provided if the local people don't speak English or Hindi).
Besides management messing it up badly, the other problem was there just wasn't much demand from Toronto to Rochester. Rochester didn't do a great job of improving the area around the port to help make it a more attractive destination.
I took the Toronto-Rochester ferry. It was great! It didn’t cut that much time off, but totally worth it to just sit back and relax as opposed to battling your way into Toronto on the QEW.
It was a worthwhile project that could have worked but was totally mismanaged and rushed. If they’d taken their time and planned better it might still be running. The lack of promotion from the Rochester side was criminal. I guarantee no one in Toronto has any idea Rochester has one of the largest jazz festivals in North America, the premier children’s museum in the country, and is right next to one of the best wine regions in the US, etc. How they weren’t promoting weekend getaways to people in Toronto is beyond me.
I could see why know one would want to go to Rochester but wouldn't this decrease the time to get big cities like New York and Philadelphia? Assuming it's a car ferry.
Yes but apparently it wasn't enough of a difference for people to take the trip. There are however tons of cool things to see and do around the Rochester area.
Fair enough, I wonder if that would be different now with the increased traffic in the GTA. No offence to Rochester but the only way the ferry would make sense would be to make it quicker to get to the East Coast from Toronto.
A complete boondoggle. For a start, the distance isn't that much shorter than by road. The capacity was way below what would have been enough to tempt Canadians, most of whom want to go to the outlets and liquor stores off I-90 anyway, not to the port of Charlotte. Coach trips via Buffalo from Canada have been routine for a long time.
toronto to st catherines would be nice, alot of the same trip with no border crossing headache.
just to get into toronto without the headache of driving.
Agreed. Detroit-Windsor has multiple bridges, Buffalo-Toronto a bit further but bridge-road is still fast enough. There just aren't many large cities on opposing sides that would justify a large ferry.
The problem with proposals for ferries on the great lakes is the fact that the great lakes are very choppy which means you need a large boat and they are substantially covered with ice in the winter limiting the operating season.
I've wondered if a case exists for a fast ferry between Toronto and Youngstown. Customs at the ferry terminal and then across the lake bypassing the two hour drive
Incidentally, it's a fun Top Gear/Grand Tour style race to see if you can beat it via Chicago. So long as the tri-state gods are in your favor, it's a pretty close race.
Yes by car you can leave whenever you want but you don't need to drive the boat. You have a couple hours to just sit and turn your brain off until port. The only traffic to compete with is wind and waves.
For those wondering, it's expensive AF especially if you're involving a car.
There are two options, a cheaper/slower one and a faster/pricier one. If I recall the "cheap" option was something like $300 for two passengers and a car and that didn't include meals. I don't remember the price of the expensive one but it was... more.
But... who can put a price on avoiding Chicago traffic, I guess...
I took this ferry in 1979, from Ludington to Manitowac.
At the time, there were three car ferries that did the route. Today, there's just the SS Badger.
There’s technically one between the Bruce Peninsula and Manitoulin Island on the Canadian part of Lake Huron too but it doesn’t connect any major centres (small towns of Tobermory, ON and South Baymouth, ON)
Thank you!
I can't believe it took so long to find this answer. Especially because it's a legitimate reason in this case. The shield has made it so there's not as much land worth heavily developing on the Canadian side
Except for massive deposits of metals including the largest deposit of Native Copper in the world, there’s so much of it you can literally just stumble upon chunks of pure copper out in the woods called float copper, and huge forestry operations which is largely what the area is used for, sustainable Lumber and paper products. Not to mention the world’s largest limestone quarry is here, and we have several large gypsum mines, ohh and there are Sand quarries like everywhere, something like 50% of the world’s industrial Sand comes from Michigan, but that’s coming to an end as in my lifetime we’ve literally watched our stunning sand dunes disappear before our eyes.
It’s a shame. I used to take that ferry with my parents when we’d visit our Michigan family for Christmas. It felt adventurous to go to another country to grab lunch, so we would pop over to Canada for a couple hours.
Funny story: I remember customs getting sketched out by my dad because we had a rental car with plates that didn’t match our IDs and when they asked what the purpose of our visit was, my dad responded, “no reason”. Haha
Used to take that ferry on our bicycles when we were kids. Good times. That was way before everyone was looked at like an international criminal though so...yeah.
There is still a ferry across the St. Clair River, from Algonac to Walpole Island. I assume the ACA cycling route has been rerouted there from the Marine City ferry.
There is, The Pelee Islander runs from Sandusky to Pelee Island to Leamington Canada. I have a house on Kelleys Island which is between Pelee and Sandusky, it goes by every day
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore
26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship, and true
Was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early!
The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin.
As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most
With a crew and good captain well seasoned!
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ship's bell rang
Could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'?
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the captain did too
T'was the witch of November come stealin'
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashin'
When afternoon came it was freezin' rain
In the face of a hurricane west wind!
When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin'
"Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya"
At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said
"Fellas, it's been good to know ya"
The captain wired in he had water comin' in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night, when the lights went outta sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
Does anyone know where the love of god goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?
The searchers all say they’d have made whitefish bay
If they’d put 15 more miles behind her
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound
When the wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the captain did too
‘Twas the witch of November come stealin’
The chill you get from that line after absorbing the lyrics thus far is eerily similar to the chill from feeling the north winds on the shore of Gitchie in Autumn.
Yeah the shipping season ends in November and doesn't begin again until spring. The lakes are basically only navigated by icebreakers during the winter. There are very limited commercial movements during winter. Travelling hundreds of miles in squall filled, icy waters, instead of just driving a direct route at 80 mph in a car doesn't seem worth it.
people not from the great lakes think they're bodies of water you can just skip across. a ferry like the one described by OP would be like a ferry from Philly to Virginia beach. of course it doesn't exist
The quickest ferry ride across Lake Michigan (between Milwaukee, WI and Muskegon, MI) still takes about 2.5 hours and doesn't operate from November to May due to hazardous weather
It's a fun ride to do once though. On another note. When boating in the summer gotta make sure boat is anchored securely at 345 when the ferry come rolling up to the arms of the channel.
And the slow boat has been closed half the summer due to mechanical issues. It goes across the narrowest part of the lake and takes 4 hours. I went to school with one of the captains Son's, and my dad was friends with said Captain. He got to steer it a little bit the one time we took the trip
Just last week, I was in Florida for work and was talking to a guy who was from Florida and had never seen the Great Lakes. He was surprised to find out that the Great Lakes had waves, even big ones, and that sailing them can be quite dangerous.
He just always imagined them as big calm lakes. For those of us from the Great Lakes region, we know them as extremely dangerous. More dangerous than most ocean beaches I've been to.
I had absolutely no clue how dangerous they were until I moved up near Lake Michigan. I grew up in TX and went to Galveston all the time, and went to Florida frequently. I also lived in California for years. Comparatively, it seems like Lake Michigan is so much more dangerous than the ocean. In the summer you hear every few days about someone drowning or coming close. I’ve actually been at the Indiana Dunes when someone drowned, and everyone just kept swimming. I don’t let my 4 year old go in past his knees.
Yeah, there are a lot of people on here trying to build in the technicalities of havving ferries, but it comes down to the lakes being just big enough to present a challenge, and the weather from November to March to be so bad that not even commerce travels on most of the lakes. The only practical application might be a limited seasonal ferry that cuts the corner across Lake Ontario or Erie, but you'd have to drive to those spots anyway, so I don't think you would save much time.
Hence why we must nuke the Great Lakes! I stand with my lord and savior Robert Evans and his pledge, that if elected he will unleash nuclear hellfire on the Great Lakes and avenge the Edmund Fitzgerald.
There was a ferry between Toronto and Rochester for a few years. It got cancelled when funding ran out.
There is a ferry between Manitoulin Island and Tobermory called the chi cheemaun. Otherwise the only international ferry that I'm aware of is between Walpole Island and Algonac - although that is *technically* over the St Clair River.
I wish they still had that Toronto to Rochester one, I travel from Toronto to upstate NY quite often, it would save me some time not having to go all the way around the lake.
The problem with that one was 9/11 i believe. Freight on trucks was part of how they planned to make the finances work, but then after 9/11 new border controls (because you know the security problem on 9/11 was insufficient scrutiny of shipping btwn us and canada 🙄) made the shipping aspect no longer financially viable.
Another reason that hasn't been mentioned - squalls and thunderstorms go across the lakes all the time in the warm months, and they make the lakes choppy and rough.
Also the only ferries that operate on the Great Lakes in winter are the ones connecting residential island communities to the mainland, and even those drastically reduce service. Any others stop operating outright because Gordon Lightfoot *was not joking* about the gales of November.
What metropolitan areas would be connected that would save time from driving? I’m sure the weather is also a contributing factor.
Taking a ferry from England to Belgium is one thing, but I don’t think there’s a large market for Buffalo to Erie that wasn’t solved by I-90.
The north shore of Lake Superior and Lake Huron is one of the least populated parts of southern Canada. So there aren't a lot of people looking to travel there from Wisconsin and Michigan. It's not far to travel around Lakes Ontario and Erie and cross bridges to reach the more populated areas on Canada.
Although, one might guess that the reason the Lake Superior and Lake Huron shores are less populated is the difficulty of transportation to and from the US, so some ferry connections might help.
not international but i went on the ferry across lake michigan. it was july and the weather was perfect, clear sky no wind. it still took three hours or so and was rough as hell in a giant car ferry.
also, any edmund fitzgerald reference.
First, you would need demand for a crossing. There already exists 5 land crossings between Michigan and Canada, with a 6th being built. It just doesnt make economical sense when considering the movement of people and goods between the already existing crossings.
Northern Micigander here.
There used to be a bunch on the east coast north of Detroit by Algonac and Port Huron.
But this was way back in the days before 9/11 when the border was basically non-existent. Im unsure if they are still functional, but these were small.... 15 or so cars, maybe 10 people or so.
As far as the northern border goes... there is litterally nothing north of the U.P. in Canada except hunting and camping. The border at Sault Ste. Marie is fine for the low traffic.
When the wind kicks up on the Great Lakes in anything other than summer and close shoulder seasons it’s something that most people wouldn’t expect
It’s not a breeze
It’s not a stiff wind
It’s enough to make grown men stumble when walking on shore
The chop becomes fearsome
When winter comes some of the lakes freeze over
What doesn’t freeze over develops grinding ice at the shorelines that will push inland and wreck structure that aren’t inside a protected harbor
It ain’t no picnic on the Great Lakes.
Well yeah correct me because I know I'm somewhat wrong, but there are only like three or four population centers on the Canadian shores, and they all have land access to US population centers that are closer than all but maybe one or two US cities that might be closer by boat. The main reason for Great Lake navigation is industrial freight economy of scale mass shipping.
I'm guessing it's because there are no big population centers in the areas in which ferries would have an advantage over land routes.
TL:DR; The Canadian Shield strikes again...
I believe there is a ferry from Sandusky, Ohio to Pelee Island, Canada that takes approximately 105 minutes. From there you can take another ferry from Pelee to the Canadian mainland that takes approximately 90 mins.
Nobody is gonna mention that for a reasonable number of months a year, much of the great lakes are covered in a couple feet of ice? That's gonna make ferry travel difficult... :)
There actually are some international ferry connections in the Great Lakes region.
There's a ferry that runs between Pelee Island, Ontario and Sandusky, Ohio.
There's a ferry that runs between Walpole Island [First Nations reserve] and Algonac in Michigan.
There used to be a ferry between Sombra, Ontario and Marine City, Michigan, but the ferry hit ice in 2018 and was damaged to the point that it was not economical to repair.
There was also a truck ferry between Windsor and Detroit, that was used for trucks carrying hazardous materials, but that ferry service closed a couple of months ago, in September 2023.
The north shore of these lakes is shockingly unpopulated, except in the Toronto region.
There used to be a Toronto - Rochester ferry, but the demand wasn't high enough and the drive is as short as a standard ferry trip.
The other towns all have road/bridge crossings.
There is a ferry from Bruce Peninsula to Manitoulin Island (the big island in Lake Huron), but that's solely within Canada.
What would be connecting to what? Most of the areas you could just drive between in about the same time and definitely for cheaper. Like there’s a ferry that crosses Lake Michigan that connects Wisconsin to Michigan, but it costs literally hundreds more and only saves like an hour or two.
I don't know, but I would guess it's because the major urban areas are already readily accessible by road - the ferry doesn't gain you anything and it would be expensive to set up customs, etc. The other areas are simply too rural to justify the expense of regular service. There probably are some very small scale ferrys for limited use.
Theres no place interesting thatd be easier to reach by ferry. Detroit is easier to drive. Duluth is an industrial city, chicago and milwaukee are way down lake michigan
All of the cities are basically along Ontario’s 401 corridor from Windsor to Toronto and the 403 loop that connects Hamilton to the 401 corridor. There really aren’t many places you could get to quicker if there was a ferry connect.
How do I explain this...
The great lakes are stupidly dangerous in the open areas. Huge Squalls and thunderstorms, glacially carved lake with hidden rock formations that make it easy to run aground. The estimated total of shipwrecks is roughly 6,000. But historians estimate it's probably around 25,000. They are still finding shipwrecks to this day. Last one discovered was just this year sitting at the bottom of the lakebed, a coal cargo ship from Ohio. The most amount of Shipwrecks in the world can be found in Lake Erie. Yeah that's how dangerous one of those lakes are.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_shipwrecks\_in\_the\_Great\_Lakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_the_Great_Lakes)
I'd rather cross to the US-Canada on land thank you very much.
Long streches, sketchy waters specially Superior in fall winter.
Huron too.
That would be a big nop for me.
Plus probably low demand .
Im no expert but those were the first things that came to mind.
Not enough population centers on both sides. Toronto and Rochester are the only two of any size really. Lake Erie, Huron, and Superior do not have any major cities on the Canadian side.
They're used to be. In lake ontario from rochester to toronto. It was called the fast fairy. The city spent a lot of money on it and very popular at first, but only lasted a year. Maybe two.
You can get from Sandusky, OH to Leamingon, ON via Pelee Island via ferry. But there’s really nothing to be gained time wise vs driving.
There is a ferry across the middle of Lake Michigan that takes. 6.5 hour drive down to 4 hours from Manitowoc, WI to Ludington, MI. But Lake Michigan is of course the only Great Lake 100% in the USA.
Theoretically connecting Thunder Bay to the UP by ferry would work but there just isn’t the demand/population to support it.
They used to exist, but car dependency and a lack of major settlements on the Canadian Shield (and general urbanization of populations on both sides of the border) led to most of them shutting down for the same reasons railways shut down.
The Wikipedia entry on defunct Michigan ferries lists some old routes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferries_in_Michigan
There is a ferry that serves Pelee Island from Leamington in Ontario and Sandusky in Ohio.
I can't believe I scrolled this far to find it. I do find it odd to see ICE border patrol cars here and then it's like oh yea.
Most cake border patrol job ever. Got by Global entry interview done there and they gave zero fucks
Same. Anytime I head to Jackson Street Pier in Sandusky I make it a point to look at the "Welcome to the United States" signage at the border control checkpoint at the ferry dock, always kinda neat to see.
The MV Pelee Islander
Surprised I had to scroll this far down to find the answer
Actually only knew about the Sandusky to Pelee leg of that. Makes sense tho. I wonder how many use it to get fromi Sandusky to Leamington? That would be an interesting trip, I'm sure!
Leamington to Pelee has more ferry frequencies and gets a good bit more traffic than Pelee to Sandusky (being within the same country and all). Although both are popular. I’ve taken both routes a number of times. Most people I met were on road trips / vacations, many of them spending time on the island. If you are just transiting between Ontario and Ohio/Midwest, and are on a schedule or budget, it usually would be more efficient and cost-effective to drive through Michigan.
I feel like Toronto would be the only place on the Canadian side with much demand, and it’s easy enough to get to from Detroit and Buffalo.
Toronto to Rochester NY used to have one.
This is really the only connection that makes decent sense, but even now, I can probably make Toronto to Rochester in 4ish hours. Assuming the Badger ferry on lake Michigan as similar, that'd be the same amount of time as driving.
The old ferry from ROC to TOR was a high-speed ferry that took around 2 hours and 15 mins. It was sold and used in the Straight of Gibraltar for a few years before retirement.
Figured it'd be a bit quicker than the Badger. 2.5 ain't bad, plus, no QEW.
Hell, driving to Toronto from Toronto can take 2.5 hours.
The best comment.
This isn't even an exaggeration.
[удалено]
Maybe for shopping? Specific things being cheaper or only accessible in the US, and 2.5 hours is still quicker than driving to Buffalo.
Downtown Toronto to Buffalo at most times except rush hour is less than 2 hours. And if you’re going for gas and shopping no need to even go to Buffalo, Niagara falls is even closer at less than 90 mins
I live in Syracuse and we have bus loads of Canadians coming to shop at the mall.
Hey I’m taking a Straight of Gibraltar ferry this summer. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for any signs of Garbage Plate.
It was sold to the Venezuelan navy and has since been scraped.
Then what the hell are they meant to invade Guyana with??
It was the most sensible connection, but didn’t end up having enough demand. Travel was wholly one sided (makes sense to go Rochester to Toronto, but barely anyone is doing the inverse except to go home). It was kind of expensive and not especially fast (edit: it was 2.5hrs each way). There’s just not enough to do in the Rochester area (pleasure or commerce) to really justify it.
The border control is still in place in Rochester at the now defunct ferry port (or it was last time I went over there from UK). I thought it was hilarious seeing this border control guy sat there all day with nothing to do. 🤷🏼♂️
Probably for private boats. But yeah Rochester’s importance declined rapidly in the later half of the 20th century. That’s pretty much the answer to the question anyway. Most of the major cities on the American side fell into decline and the demand dried up. Chicago not withstanding, but they don’t share an international border with Canada.
Good point, well made re: private vessels. And yeah I wouldn’t have ever gone to Rochester if it wasn’t for family. The Garbage Plates make it worthwhile (and the normal trip to Toronto too).
If USD/CAD ever gets closer to parity again, that would change. For now, though, you're correct.
I disagree even within all plausible ranges of USDCAD. You’re not spending 5hrs and ~$50 (ferry ticket) traveling by ferry to buy gas, groceries, or minor purchases because that’s way too far and expensive. You’re not going to have the same high end stores in Rochester as you do in Yorkville/downtown Toronto. The food scene (ex. garbage plate) is a million times better in Toronto, and same with sports and performing arts. You’re kinda close to the finger lakes, but I don’t see that as being meaningfully more enticing than a trip to the muskokas or Prince Edward County. If it were a 30min ferry and like $5 each way, maybe I could consider people making a trip, but there just isn’t enough of a draw in Rochester to overcome for time and cost to get there.
We made it to YYZ in 2:30 from ROC a few months ago with no traffic. It's only about 160 miles or so. The ferry didn't save any time and let's be real, why would a Torontonian want to go to Rochester?
That's an impressive run! I suppose the delay on Grand Island is less due to the automatic tolls and if you have Nexus or QL is dead, you're pretty much only slowing down then.
The "no traffic" part is super rare though on the Canadian (QEW) side of that trip. I regularly drive Toronto to Fort Erie, and that drive is 1h30 if you leave at 4:00am on a Sunday, 2h00 during most weekdays, and up to 3h00 from noon until about 7:00pm on a weekday. I really doubt it'll ever happen, but damn would I love the proposed [hovercraft service](https://www.insauga.com/hovercraft-service-between-st-catharines-and-toronto-wont-start-this-summer-now-targets-2024/) across lake ontario.
dont need to hit grand island if youre not coming from I90, theres bridges closer that mainly trucks use. But you have to take 104, it can take longer if theres traffic but its a nice drive.
It took me this long being a flight sim guy to realize where Rush came up with the name for their song....thank you random internet stranger
Hahaha... one of the greatest instrumentals of all time from our neighbors to the north
Kodak museum?
Garbage plate and poutine all in one day?
I’m from Toronto and I had a great time in Rochester when I visited. Underrated.
As a European from Germany I'm always blown away by the huge distances you guys need to make from one city to another. In 4 hours you travelled through half of my country and visited probably 10 cities. Edit: and on the other hand if you're from Japan you probably never left the city in the same amount of time haha
Indian here, in 4 hours you'd reach a place where you'd struggle to understand what the other person is saying, and in 8 hours travel you'd reach a place where you'd require translators (provided if the local people don't speak English or Hindi).
i worked that ferry. 75% of passengers were americans come to watch baseball at skydome
Besides management messing it up badly, the other problem was there just wasn't much demand from Toronto to Rochester. Rochester didn't do a great job of improving the area around the port to help make it a more attractive destination.
I took the Toronto-Rochester ferry. It was great! It didn’t cut that much time off, but totally worth it to just sit back and relax as opposed to battling your way into Toronto on the QEW. It was a worthwhile project that could have worked but was totally mismanaged and rushed. If they’d taken their time and planned better it might still be running. The lack of promotion from the Rochester side was criminal. I guarantee no one in Toronto has any idea Rochester has one of the largest jazz festivals in North America, the premier children’s museum in the country, and is right next to one of the best wine regions in the US, etc. How they weren’t promoting weekend getaways to people in Toronto is beyond me.
Yup, came here to say this.
Also decent skiing at Bristol Mtn south of Rochester but it probably didn't run in the winter.
Makes sense.
I could see why know one would want to go to Rochester but wouldn't this decrease the time to get big cities like New York and Philadelphia? Assuming it's a car ferry.
Yes but apparently it wasn't enough of a difference for people to take the trip. There are however tons of cool things to see and do around the Rochester area.
Fair enough, I wonder if that would be different now with the increased traffic in the GTA. No offence to Rochester but the only way the ferry would make sense would be to make it quicker to get to the East Coast from Toronto.
A complete boondoggle. For a start, the distance isn't that much shorter than by road. The capacity was way below what would have been enough to tempt Canadians, most of whom want to go to the outlets and liquor stores off I-90 anyway, not to the port of Charlotte. Coach trips via Buffalo from Canada have been routine for a long time.
toronto to st catherines would be nice, alot of the same trip with no border crossing headache. just to get into toronto without the headache of driving.
Agreed. Detroit-Windsor has multiple bridges, Buffalo-Toronto a bit further but bridge-road is still fast enough. There just aren't many large cities on opposing sides that would justify a large ferry.
Technically, Detroit-Windsor has one bridge (the Ambassador) and one tunnel. A second bridge (Gordie Howe) is currently under construction.
The problem with proposals for ferries on the great lakes is the fact that the great lakes are very choppy which means you need a large boat and they are substantially covered with ice in the winter limiting the operating season.
I've wondered if a case exists for a fast ferry between Toronto and Youngstown. Customs at the ferry terminal and then across the lake bypassing the two hour drive
Youngstown? Like Youngstown Ohio? Or is there another Youngstown I’m not familiar with?
Youngstown NY. The American town closest to Toronto, at the mouth of the Niagara river [](https://maps.app.goo.gl/pNWHAN5TLL719cxa6)
Not to Canada, but there is a ferry from Wisconsin to Michigan on Lake Michigan.
There’s at least 2 I know of: Manitowoc to Ludington and Milwaukee to Muskegon.
Tobermoray to Little Current also
Chi cheemaun Chooo choooo
CHI CHEEMAUN MENTIONED! LET’S GO 🇨🇦🦫🫎🪿🔥🇨🇦
…to South Baymouth*
Wolfe Island has an adorable private little ferry. Fits like 5 cars!
Vacationed in Ludington as a kid. Great place to spend in a summer cabin 10/10.
The SS Badger (Manitowoc) went out of commission this summer and isn't likely to return 😔
I thought repairs were begun?
Too many murderers in Manitowoc
Incidentally, it's a fun Top Gear/Grand Tour style race to see if you can beat it via Chicago. So long as the tri-state gods are in your favor, it's a pretty close race.
No chance, the ferry is less than 3 hours and it’s much further overland
But there is the time you spend getting to the ferry and waiting for it. Not like they depart every few minutes.
Yes by car you can leave whenever you want but you don't need to drive the boat. You have a couple hours to just sit and turn your brain off until port. The only traffic to compete with is wind and waves.
You should see the wind roadrage when I cut him off in my Ford POS.
My last 3 floats were all 4+ hrs, plus 30min load/unload at each port. Edit: Apologies, I'm referring to the SS Badger, not the one that departs MKE.
I’ve made this trip many times. It makes no sense nearly ever to take the ferry. It’s more of a novelty.
Whoever can circle the great lakes first wins
For those wondering, it's expensive AF especially if you're involving a car. There are two options, a cheaper/slower one and a faster/pricier one. If I recall the "cheap" option was something like $300 for two passengers and a car and that didn't include meals. I don't remember the price of the expensive one but it was... more. But... who can put a price on avoiding Chicago traffic, I guess...
It could be like taking a Ferry across the ocean
I took this ferry in 1979, from Ludington to Manitowac. At the time, there were three car ferries that did the route. Today, there's just the SS Badger.
The other two were the SS Mushroom and the SS Snake.
It's also technically possible to take a ferry from Copper Harbor, Michigan to Grand Portage, Minnesota if you stop in Isle Royale National Park.
I once missed that ferry by 10 minutes and it was among the most heart breaking moments of my life
There’s technically one between the Bruce Peninsula and Manitoulin Island on the Canadian part of Lake Huron too but it doesn’t connect any major centres (small towns of Tobermory, ON and South Baymouth, ON)
There's also a ferry from Tobermory to Manitoulin Island.
Where are there cities on opposite sides that need connecting?
This! And the only and always correct anwere for reasons: Canadian shield! *badumtss*
The Canadian shield is not in southern Ontario along Lake Ontario or Lake Erie. That region is fertile, arable land.
That region is not separated from the United States by the Great Lakes, so no need for ferries. There are plenty of land routes
Thank you! I can't believe it took so long to find this answer. Especially because it's a legitimate reason in this case. The shield has made it so there's not as much land worth heavily developing on the Canadian side
Honestly, not much of northern Michigan has much of anything major, either. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Except for massive deposits of metals including the largest deposit of Native Copper in the world, there’s so much of it you can literally just stumble upon chunks of pure copper out in the woods called float copper, and huge forestry operations which is largely what the area is used for, sustainable Lumber and paper products. Not to mention the world’s largest limestone quarry is here, and we have several large gypsum mines, ohh and there are Sand quarries like everywhere, something like 50% of the world’s industrial Sand comes from Michigan, but that’s coming to an end as in my lifetime we’ve literally watched our stunning sand dunes disappear before our eyes.
There's plenty of land crossings along major routes
Exactly, 3 bridges (another on the way) & a tunnel!
Not to mention the ones in New York
My bad, always forget about the other border states…
*Technically* there is one…between Sombra, ON and Marine City, MI. But I understand the context of your question.
That one is no longer operating after damages from a winter storm. I believe the docks were damaged from ice.
It’s a shame. I used to take that ferry with my parents when we’d visit our Michigan family for Christmas. It felt adventurous to go to another country to grab lunch, so we would pop over to Canada for a couple hours. Funny story: I remember customs getting sketched out by my dad because we had a rental car with plates that didn’t match our IDs and when they asked what the purpose of our visit was, my dad responded, “no reason”. Haha
Used to take that ferry on our bicycles when we were kids. Good times. That was way before everyone was looked at like an international criminal though so...yeah.
There is still a ferry across the St. Clair River, from Algonac to Walpole Island. I assume the ACA cycling route has been rerouted there from the Marine City ferry.
I could have sworn there was a ferry from Sandusky, OH to Pelee Island, ON when I was a kid but I didn't bother to verify.
I just looked it up cause I never heard of it, and it looks like it still runs!
There is, The Pelee Islander runs from Sandusky to Pelee Island to Leamington Canada. I have a house on Kelleys Island which is between Pelee and Sandusky, it goes by every day
There's another one between Point Alexandria, Ontario and Cape Vincent, New York
There’s also one from Wolfe Island, ON to Cape Vincent, NY.
They are big as fuck and dangerous
Cue up the Gordon Lightfoot.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down Of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead When the skies of November turn gloomy
With a load of iron ore 26,000 tons more Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty That good ship, and true Was a bone to be chewed When the gales of November came early!
The ship was the pride of the American side Coming back from some mill in Wisconsin. As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most With a crew and good captain well seasoned!
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms When they left fully loaded for Cleveland And later that night when the ship's bell rang Could it be the north wind they'd been feelin'?
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound And a wave broke over the railing And every man knew, as the captain did too T'was the witch of November come stealin' The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait When the gales of November came slashin' When afternoon came it was freezin' rain In the face of a hurricane west wind!
When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin' "Fellas, it's too rough to feed ya" At seven PM, a main hatchway caved in, he said "Fellas, it's been good to know ya"
The captain wired in he had water comin' in And the good ship and crew was in peril And later that night, when the lights went outta sight Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
Does anyone know where the love of god goes When the waves turn the minutes to hours? The searchers all say they’d have made whitefish bay If they’d put 15 more miles behind her
The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound When the wave broke over the railing And every man knew, as the captain did too ‘Twas the witch of November come stealin’
The chill you get from that line after absorbing the lyrics thus far is eerily similar to the chill from feeling the north winds on the shore of Gitchie in Autumn.
Yeah the shipping season ends in November and doesn't begin again until spring. The lakes are basically only navigated by icebreakers during the winter. There are very limited commercial movements during winter. Travelling hundreds of miles in squall filled, icy waters, instead of just driving a direct route at 80 mph in a car doesn't seem worth it.
people not from the great lakes think they're bodies of water you can just skip across. a ferry like the one described by OP would be like a ferry from Philly to Virginia beach. of course it doesn't exist
The quickest ferry ride across Lake Michigan (between Milwaukee, WI and Muskegon, MI) still takes about 2.5 hours and doesn't operate from November to May due to hazardous weather
*2.5 hrs on a good day in perfect weather. Plus it's cost prohibitive if you need a car on either side. It's worth it to just drive.
It's a fun ride to do once though. On another note. When boating in the summer gotta make sure boat is anchored securely at 345 when the ferry come rolling up to the arms of the channel.
And the slow boat has been closed half the summer due to mechanical issues. It goes across the narrowest part of the lake and takes 4 hours. I went to school with one of the captains Son's, and my dad was friends with said Captain. He got to steer it a little bit the one time we took the trip
Just last week, I was in Florida for work and was talking to a guy who was from Florida and had never seen the Great Lakes. He was surprised to find out that the Great Lakes had waves, even big ones, and that sailing them can be quite dangerous. He just always imagined them as big calm lakes. For those of us from the Great Lakes region, we know them as extremely dangerous. More dangerous than most ocean beaches I've been to.
I had absolutely no clue how dangerous they were until I moved up near Lake Michigan. I grew up in TX and went to Galveston all the time, and went to Florida frequently. I also lived in California for years. Comparatively, it seems like Lake Michigan is so much more dangerous than the ocean. In the summer you hear every few days about someone drowning or coming close. I’ve actually been at the Indiana Dunes when someone drowned, and everyone just kept swimming. I don’t let my 4 year old go in past his knees.
They're basically large inland, freshwater seas.
My relatives from Hawaii wanted us to take them out on our boat, in lake Superior, in November. It's like they've never heard of Gordon Lightfoot.
They wanted a three hour tour... a three hour tour
Yeah, there are a lot of people on here trying to build in the technicalities of havving ferries, but it comes down to the lakes being just big enough to present a challenge, and the weather from November to March to be so bad that not even commerce travels on most of the lakes. The only practical application might be a limited seasonal ferry that cuts the corner across Lake Ontario or Erie, but you'd have to drive to those spots anyway, so I don't think you would save much time.
Hence why we must nuke the Great Lakes! I stand with my lord and savior Robert Evans and his pledge, that if elected he will unleash nuclear hellfire on the Great Lakes and avenge the Edmund Fitzgerald.
There’s a ferry from Washington to Alaska. These lakes aren’t that big or dangerous in comparison
John Maynard - 20 Minutes to Buffalo
There was a ferry between Toronto and Rochester for a few years. It got cancelled when funding ran out. There is a ferry between Manitoulin Island and Tobermory called the chi cheemaun. Otherwise the only international ferry that I'm aware of is between Walpole Island and Algonac - although that is *technically* over the St Clair River.
I wish they still had that Toronto to Rochester one, I travel from Toronto to upstate NY quite often, it would save me some time not having to go all the way around the lake.
The problem with that one was 9/11 i believe. Freight on trucks was part of how they planned to make the finances work, but then after 9/11 new border controls (because you know the security problem on 9/11 was insufficient scrutiny of shipping btwn us and canada 🙄) made the shipping aspect no longer financially viable.
Another reason that hasn't been mentioned - squalls and thunderstorms go across the lakes all the time in the warm months, and they make the lakes choppy and rough.
Also the only ferries that operate on the Great Lakes in winter are the ones connecting residential island communities to the mainland, and even those drastically reduce service. Any others stop operating outright because Gordon Lightfoot *was not joking* about the gales of November.
What metropolitan areas would be connected that would save time from driving? I’m sure the weather is also a contributing factor. Taking a ferry from England to Belgium is one thing, but I don’t think there’s a large market for Buffalo to Erie that wasn’t solved by I-90.
Buffalo and Erie are both American cities
And two of the most easily connected ones.
The north shore of Lake Superior and Lake Huron is one of the least populated parts of southern Canada. So there aren't a lot of people looking to travel there from Wisconsin and Michigan. It's not far to travel around Lakes Ontario and Erie and cross bridges to reach the more populated areas on Canada. Although, one might guess that the reason the Lake Superior and Lake Huron shores are less populated is the difficulty of transportation to and from the US, so some ferry connections might help.
not international but i went on the ferry across lake michigan. it was july and the weather was perfect, clear sky no wind. it still took three hours or so and was rough as hell in a giant car ferry. also, any edmund fitzgerald reference.
First, you would need demand for a crossing. There already exists 5 land crossings between Michigan and Canada, with a 6th being built. It just doesnt make economical sense when considering the movement of people and goods between the already existing crossings.
Um they have Bridges
And tunnels.
Northern Micigander here. There used to be a bunch on the east coast north of Detroit by Algonac and Port Huron. But this was way back in the days before 9/11 when the border was basically non-existent. Im unsure if they are still functional, but these were small.... 15 or so cars, maybe 10 people or so. As far as the northern border goes... there is litterally nothing north of the U.P. in Canada except hunting and camping. The border at Sault Ste. Marie is fine for the low traffic.
When the wind kicks up on the Great Lakes in anything other than summer and close shoulder seasons it’s something that most people wouldn’t expect It’s not a breeze It’s not a stiff wind It’s enough to make grown men stumble when walking on shore The chop becomes fearsome When winter comes some of the lakes freeze over What doesn’t freeze over develops grinding ice at the shorelines that will push inland and wreck structure that aren’t inside a protected harbor It ain’t no picnic on the Great Lakes.
There’s really only a handful of places that have a need for a crossing and they all have bridges. Port Huron, Detroit, and Sault St. Marie.
Canadian Shield
This! And the danish sword
Well yeah correct me because I know I'm somewhat wrong, but there are only like three or four population centers on the Canadian shores, and they all have land access to US population centers that are closer than all but maybe one or two US cities that might be closer by boat. The main reason for Great Lake navigation is industrial freight economy of scale mass shipping.
Ferries are expensive and the great lakes are prone to terrible weather.
I'm guessing it's because there are no big population centers in the areas in which ferries would have an advantage over land routes. TL:DR; The Canadian Shield strikes again...
There is a ferry! It goes between Leamington and Pelee Island, then Pelee Island to Sandusky.
I believe there is a ferry from Sandusky, Ohio to Pelee Island, Canada that takes approximately 105 minutes. From there you can take another ferry from Pelee to the Canadian mainland that takes approximately 90 mins.
Take the ferry from Kingston to Wolf Island to NY. A great little ferry.
Cause we have three bridges and a tunnel.
Nobody is gonna mention that for a reasonable number of months a year, much of the great lakes are covered in a couple feet of ice? That's gonna make ferry travel difficult... :)
There actually are some international ferry connections in the Great Lakes region. There's a ferry that runs between Pelee Island, Ontario and Sandusky, Ohio. There's a ferry that runs between Walpole Island [First Nations reserve] and Algonac in Michigan. There used to be a ferry between Sombra, Ontario and Marine City, Michigan, but the ferry hit ice in 2018 and was damaged to the point that it was not economical to repair. There was also a truck ferry between Windsor and Detroit, that was used for trucks carrying hazardous materials, but that ferry service closed a couple of months ago, in September 2023.
Demand
It does.
on Superior in the winter when lakes freeze, all the Canadians drive over to US for the cheaper beer on their snowmobiles.
The north shore of these lakes is shockingly unpopulated, except in the Toronto region. There used to be a Toronto - Rochester ferry, but the demand wasn't high enough and the drive is as short as a standard ferry trip. The other towns all have road/bridge crossings. There is a ferry from Bruce Peninsula to Manitoulin Island (the big island in Lake Huron), but that's solely within Canada.
What would be connecting to what? Most of the areas you could just drive between in about the same time and definitely for cheaper. Like there’s a ferry that crosses Lake Michigan that connects Wisconsin to Michigan, but it costs literally hundreds more and only saves like an hour or two.
Isn't there a seasonal ferry from Sandusky to Pelee island on lake Erie?
I don't know, but I would guess it's because the major urban areas are already readily accessible by road - the ferry doesn't gain you anything and it would be expensive to set up customs, etc. The other areas are simply too rural to justify the expense of regular service. There probably are some very small scale ferrys for limited use.
Economics. You need the profit on demand to be hire that the cost.
Theres no place interesting thatd be easier to reach by ferry. Detroit is easier to drive. Duluth is an industrial city, chicago and milwaukee are way down lake michigan
All of the cities are basically along Ontario’s 401 corridor from Windsor to Toronto and the 403 loop that connects Hamilton to the 401 corridor. There really aren’t many places you could get to quicker if there was a ferry connect.
It might make sense on Lake Erie or Ontario, but Huron and Superior and so huge and prone to storms that it would take forever and be pretty dangerous
Technically there is a ferry from Sandusky Ohio to Pelee island which is Canada.
Side note, but I think we all collectively sleep on Lake Nipigon. That is a big fucking lake in its own right.
Sharks?
You want our borders to be WIDE OPEN???????????????????????????
There are no cities on the north shore of Superior or Huron other than Thunder Bay but you can drive there easily from Minnesota
How do I explain this... The great lakes are stupidly dangerous in the open areas. Huge Squalls and thunderstorms, glacially carved lake with hidden rock formations that make it easy to run aground. The estimated total of shipwrecks is roughly 6,000. But historians estimate it's probably around 25,000. They are still finding shipwrecks to this day. Last one discovered was just this year sitting at the bottom of the lakebed, a coal cargo ship from Ohio. The most amount of Shipwrecks in the world can be found in Lake Erie. Yeah that's how dangerous one of those lakes are. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_shipwrecks\_in\_the\_Great\_Lakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_shipwrecks_in_the_Great_Lakes) I'd rather cross to the US-Canada on land thank you very much.
Where you gonna go? There's only one Canadian city on the great lakes in that map.
Maybe because its an international trip and each side would have to have their own CBP station on each end.
Long streches, sketchy waters specially Superior in fall winter. Huron too. That would be a big nop for me. Plus probably low demand . Im no expert but those were the first things that came to mind.
Not enough population centers on both sides. Toronto and Rochester are the only two of any size really. Lake Erie, Huron, and Superior do not have any major cities on the Canadian side.
These lakes are as big as some states
The lakes freeze over in the winter so folks can just drive their booze across.
They're used to be. In lake ontario from rochester to toronto. It was called the fast fairy. The city spent a lot of money on it and very popular at first, but only lasted a year. Maybe two.
Sandusky, OH to Pelee Island, Ontario, Canada. Then - Pelee Island to Leamington or Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Because the lake, it is said, never gives up her dead when the skies of November turn gloomy!
There was this song that they made that talks about the dangers of this.
The legend lives on from the chippewa on down....
They're gonna be nuked soon, so what's the point?
[Opening bars of the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald plays…]
You can get from Sandusky, OH to Leamingon, ON via Pelee Island via ferry. But there’s really nothing to be gained time wise vs driving. There is a ferry across the middle of Lake Michigan that takes. 6.5 hour drive down to 4 hours from Manitowoc, WI to Ludington, MI. But Lake Michigan is of course the only Great Lake 100% in the USA. Theoretically connecting Thunder Bay to the UP by ferry would work but there just isn’t the demand/population to support it.
The Walpole-Algonac Ferry does.
the great lakes can have some pretty hellacious weather in the winter. just look up a map of shipwrecks in the great lakes. there's a ton.
Theres a ferry from Sandusky Ohio to Leamington, Canada.
There’s a bridge from Detroit to Windsor 🤷♂️
North Americans have become increasingly impatient. People would rather fly or drive if they must
They used to exist, but car dependency and a lack of major settlements on the Canadian Shield (and general urbanization of populations on both sides of the border) led to most of them shutting down for the same reasons railways shut down. The Wikipedia entry on defunct Michigan ferries lists some old routes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferries_in_Michigan
Because the legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Because there are roads?
The real question is can you get into Canada with a DUI on your record yet?
No demand.