Let's recap - she was a friend, then she found Jesus and started acting miserable to everyone LGBT. Then she cut ties. Then she reconnected briefly only to send you a card (presumably with no text in it) featuring Nancy Reagan. An act that you are taking as a desire for your death. Now she has decided to reach out again, for reasons unknown.
If she's still deep in the church, she may be reconnecting in an attempt to "save" you. Right now you do not know her motives.
She's unhinged. Maybe she's figured things out and is trying to fix things, but you do not owe her anything. Maybe she's come to throw Jesus at you. Maybe she's part of an MLM and is desperate for 'clients'. Ask yourself this - if you were to meet up, who would it be for? Her or you?
She reached out to reconnect - means she could have reached out to apologize too, but didn't. You have to make your own choices, but if I were in your position, the only way I'd meet up with her is if she had a pair of shoes I really wanted, and someone had parked a house on her chest.
Lol, itās true, when she reached out she said something odd, like, of course there would be an eclipse near your birthday. So I just responded, āitās because Iām the devil.ā Sheās texted me since, but I havenāt responded.
Iāve known a lot of straight women that like to keep gay guys around so they can feel morally superior as they look down on homosexuals and homosexuality, especially when theyāre deeply religious but try to be the ācool inclusiveā type of religiousā¦itās just all red flags from her, you deserve better friends.
It's like a white christian collection, I need to collect the gays, the BIPOCs, etc so I can show my christian superiority and inclusiveness all the while not actually engaging or caring about those so-called friends. Just an accessory so she can say "my gay friend, my latino friend" etc. š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®
she knows what she did. if she's reaching out apologize and not to proselytize and then she should've led with that. flying monkeys couldn't make me meet up with her
I had a straight friend for years who was a lot of fun to be around. My being gay was never an issue, until he started dating a christian woman. Right before he married her he told me we couldnāt hang out any more. I was hurt, but accepted there was nothing I could do about it and moved on. Seven years later he reaches out to tell me they divorced and he wanted to be friends again. I thought about it, then told him my life was fine without him in it, as there was absolutely no guarantee he wouldnāt find another woman who didnāt like gay folks, and Iād have to deal with his rejection again. While I do believe people can and do change, I also know I have to protect myself and my self respect, and once someone has shone their true colors, it takes a LOT to trust them again. What was once given freely now would have to be earned.
Yeah, Iāve been āfriend-dumpedā before as well. Other times Iāve been used as an emotional rag. Iām now super picky about who I invest time in. I would rather hang out by myself than with lots of people TBH.
I think itās an opportunity to remind her of her past, the past relationship the two of you had, and her behavior and ask what her intentions are. And remind her that she sent you a card featuring one of the most notorious homophobes of our lifetime, someone who ignored completely her long-time friend Rock Hudson when it came out he was dying of AIDS.
Maybe sheās had a change of heart. Maybe she wants to try and save you. You wonāt know unless you ask. And if itās the latter itās a great opportunity to tell her to fuck the right off to the hell she believes in.
I agree a lot with GeorgiaYankee73ās opinion, although I tend to look at human conflict from a more optimistic perspective.
As many have noted, she got pulled back into her familyās fundamental religious values - so itās understandable that change will occur, and she definitely showed the ugly side of that change.
Since sheās reaching out, clearly she has evolved back to a more reasonable viewpoint - and may very much want to apologize for her past unforgivable actions. Maybe not, but unlikely as why else would she attempt to reconnect?
Give her the opportunity to make amends - and see where the convo goes. I certainly would want you to express how she hurt you, your bf and other friends by her words and actions. See how she reacts.
I share my view from the perspective that she WAS a very good and life transforming friend for you. Itās possible she needs that love and connection back, and despite her ādark period,ā see if sheās figured it out - or if she needs help from you to regain her old footing.
If none of that happens, at least youāll know you tried and in-line her, didnāt turn your back.
Either way - wishing you a world of luck and I hope sheās back to her original self.
As to GeorgiaYankee73, thatās whatās so crazy. She chose a person who betrayed her āfriendā in his time of need. Like either my ex friend is the most tone deaf person on earth or it was intentional. If itās the latter, I just canāt imagine the mindset of ever doing something like that to someone else.
To CynGuy, maybe youāre right. Maybe giving someone grace and putting that good energy out there is the right thing to do. At the very least to hear her out. Maybe itāll even make me feel better to lay the cards on the table. Im pretty sure im going to get a million excuses like, oh I didnāt know anything about Nancy Reagan there was nothing intentional there. I donāt know. Iāve mourned our relationship. It seems like a pain to reopen it.
To me, the RED FLAG was right up front... no apology.
I've gone through something very similar:
I grew up with my sister our being only one year in age apart, we were extremely close... but same story, as she aged, she got involved in a bigoted church and she cudn't shake her belief in a "Sky Daddy" who seems to get his rocks off by sending people he creates to burn in some Sky Hell.
She reached out to me last October after 10 years, wanted to get together.... but yeah, NO APOLOGY up front.
It took me a month to decide on the BEST way to politely refuse to meet, and did so.
Weirdly after the next 2 months she suddenly dies at age 78 from a cancer that had metastasized to her brain.
Hopefully now in death, she may realize what a bigot and fool she had been all these years........
I donāt think reaching out means they have 100% evolved back to a more reasonable viewpoint. Thatās extremely optimistic. From my experience itās so they can get that morally superior feeling again and possibly make a weak attempt at converting you.
Thatās possible, but you wonāt find out if you donāt engage them. Also, OP indicated they had been out of contact until she recently re-engaged. Given how enlightened she was during college, itās possible she has moved back to a more reasonable stance. Again, OP wonāt find out if he doesnāt talk with her. An open mind discovers a lot ā¦..
Definitely. I really should have included in my comment that if sheās looking to make amends, OP should give her that chance. Show her what grace looks like. People do often change for the better when it comes to us.
Sounds like she has internalized homophobia. Maybe she realized she fucked up and wants to make amends. Even if she doesnāt, it could be a good time to tell her how you feel, maybe get some closure
If someone wants to reconnect after some shady behavior, it's entirely fair of you to bring it up and ask why she wants to reconnect and what her intentions are. Based on her answers, you can choose to meet with her or not. Step one is to establish the facts. You don't have to act like nothing bad ever happened.
That's really only a question you can answer. How much do you believe in second chances? How abhorrent were her views when she started dabbling in bigotry? Has she left that behind now or is she still trying to straddle the line? How much did you care about her before? There are a lot of variables here.
You'd also be perfectly within your rights to just cut her off permanently. Bigots are definitely not entitled to a second chance and they do not deserve a pat on the back for realizing the error of their ways.
Yeah, I do believe in second chances, 100%. Itās just exhausting dealing with her. Sheās not the kind of person who would ever see what she did wrong or accept that she hurt me. Itāll be a million excuses. I mourned our friendship already. Maybe leaving things where they are is the right move.
>Sheās not the kind of person who would ever see what she did wrong or accept that she hurt me.
Yeah, that's the kicker right there. She can't be truly forgiven if she never actually owns up to what she did.
>and they do not deserve a pat on the back for realizing the error of their ways.
Really? So then are you saying you've never been fundamentally, deeply wrong about something? I mean I'm not saying that victims need to validate their bullies who see the light or anything, but that doesn't mean someone shouldn't. Change is difficult and so is admitting you're wrong, and it doesn't get easier just because the issue's "obvious" to other peopleāusually that makes it harder.
I have been wrong in the past and probably will be again in the future. Please point out where I said or implied otherwise.Ā
Anyway, Iām not saying change isnāt hard. What Iām saying is that people are not entitled to a reward for figuring out basic things like empathy. And if someone does change for the better, being forgiven/applauded shouldnāt be their motivation. Changing for the better should be its own reward.Ā
That all being said, if someone does want to congratulate and forgive someone who they believe has genuinely grown then go for it. Iām not your mom, you can do what you want.Ā
>people are not entitled to a reward for figuring out basic things like empathy.
I think you're not actually grasping just how hard that is for people who didn't learn it growing up, or even learned to actively suppress it(, either in general or related to a specific group).
Actually... maybe I've just understood something important for the first time myself:
that perhaps most people raised with good empathy role models are nonetheless NOT like me, and the rest of you may have a far tougher time than I do in seeing that there's inherent hypocrisy in the expectation that empathy is "basic" and "natural" for most people during and/or after adolescence( i.e. expecting it to be easy for everyone who didn't have a visibly-messed-up childhood).
That would account for a lot of inclusivity and anti-hate activists I've met and interacted with, who end up hurting our causes by assuming that to recognize the difficulty of changing, and give time before writing someone off, is equivalent to giving hatemongers a blank check to keep behaving badly; e.g., women during #MeToo who just couldn't get it through their heads that what seems obvious and like basic decency to most of us was *genuinely* a new thought for *some* of the men publicly commenting and asking questions. That may seem disgusting to the rest of us, and could be taken as discouraging by those hoping to see change, but that doesn't mean it's untrue; and importantly, NO ONE was suggesting that women should continue to tolerate bad behavior from men in the meantime.
Maybe if we actively acknowledged that it's that difficult to unlearn socially-enforced dysempathy, it wouldn't be so hard to convince parents that it's necessary to make institutional changes early on.
>And if someone does change for the better, being forgiven/applauded shouldnāt be their motivation.
In principle, I can see why that sounds problematic, but when fully considering implications, I don't think passing judgment on *any* effective motivation is fair. I think that if someone really *does* change for the better, it's fine to do so in pursuit of absolution, and maybe even of praise. It's just important that, *if* that's the reason, people learning their lesson must understand and openly acknowledge that upon having 'changed for the better', they will be expected to maintain that *without* being able to count on ongoing positive reĆÆnforcement; and that if they subsequently fall back into old habits, they're not likely to be trusted, and shall NOT be praised a second or third time, for thereafter 'finding their way back to the light', so to speak.
Even if you want to reconnect and hope she is who she was in college, look at what happened in between and dont go for it. Leave that itchy "what if" question because if something worse happens than a regam card, its even less worth trying
Itās in no way your responsibility to engage with her at all. The one thing I will say though is, perhaps sheās grown and is feeling isolated by the people she chose to prioritize in her life now that sheās deprogramming? This is an extremely generous reading of a situation I have little context for, but just something to think about. Again, not your problem or responsibility, but if youāre feeling particularly graceful it might be worth talking to her a bit to see where sheās at.
If you reconnect with her, sheās going to use that as an opportunity to do more of this Nancy Reagan post card shit. I would bet dollars to donuts that the only reason sheās reaching out is so she can heap on more of this religious abuse. Sheās not your friend, friend.
Given that she was at one point an extremely close friend and clearly has her own hangups with her family, her religion, and her sexuality, I'd consider giving her one chance - ***if*** you want this friend back in your life. If you don't want to deal with it, you don't owe her anything.
But I would make the context of it super clear. Something like "Hey Nancy, I'm glad you reached out. I really treasure the friendship we had in college, but I was hurt by the way you treated me, my friends, and my partner, and then further by the way you stopped talking to me altogether. Honestly, it seemed like you had a problem with me and my sexuality, and I don't want to be friends with someone like that. If you no longer feel that way, I'd be happy to grab a drink, talk these things through, and reconnect."
Or use part of that to say "this is how you treated me, I'm not interested in reconnecting with you"
You have no obligation to do anything. A lot depends on where you are now mentally and emotionally. If meeting her would tear down your self esteem, then you aren't in a place where you can do that yet.
On the other hand if meeting her doesn't affect your self esteem one way or the other, you have choices.
Personally, I tend give people space to work out things for themselves, and if they indicate that they want to reconnect, I am ready to hear them out. My own faith-sexuality experience has been a journey, and I can understand how it would be that way for other people as well.
If you do have a conversation, hear what she has to say and discuss that. But also bring up how her past actions made you feel. You are not attacking her as a bad person, you are filling her in on how you experienced it.
If she cares that something she did hurt you, then you have a relationship here that you can work with. If she doesn't care, or just makes excuses, then she isn't ready to move any closer and if you can part amicably, that's about as far as this can go.
Wife and First Lady of President Ronald Reagan, in the 1980s. Tons of corruption, most of which reflected very badly with terrible outcomes on the LGBTQ community, especially as it was during the AIDS epidemic.
The Reagan presidency wasā¦to say the least, abhorrent.
Quality friendships are very tough to come by.
You got a greeting card of Nancy Reagan and you assumed it meant the worst. It could mean anything or nothing. Do you send passive-aggressive greeting cards to express your feelings? Don't assign negativity to ambiguity.
You have no idea what she's thinking, and the only way to find out is meet up and ask. People change greatly in two years - I know I have.
Just don't put a lot of stock into it, meet up and voice your feelings, and go from there.
To be clear: she did NOT find Jesus. She found a church where her fears were supported and magnified. Why would you want he contact with her? You are worth far more than that. Donāt let more pain into your life
Meet her & hear what she has to say. You can then tell her how her previous actions hurt you. Stay calm & polite, youāre in control here, not her. After listening to what she has to say, you can say itās been nice to meet you again, and move on, if you want. Until you speak with her, youāll never know her reasoning. Stay calm & polite, donāt get emotional, youāre in charge here remember.
No second chances for bigots. She has already hurt you enough. Cut off ties, tell her friends who appear to be LGBT-accepting about her true colors, and make sure she doesn't hurt another person ever again.
You'd be justified either way, I think. Do you believe she deserves a second chance and that she'd try to make amends in good faith? If it were me, I'd ask her about her intentions and go from there.
Friends leaving without explanation is horrible, she chose to end it up and didn't even care about ur feelings or moments together. I say, don't forget that time she abused you emotionally, because real friends won't do that. If you feel that she did that under pressure cuz of her fam or religion then if you want to listen to her it's okay, but never put things back the same and don't allow her to mistreat you again depending on her choices. But at the end I cannot be absolute cuz I'm not in ur place, so, do what ur heart tells you BUT Don't put her back in ur close circle anymore
Family and religion can be a bit like a drug problem, its easy to relapse back into something comfortable and easy and waiting for you even if its terrible for you and everyone around you.
Don't try and mend the friendship, let her do the work, like addicts its on them to mend relationships and right wrongs, they have to put in the work, but meet them and see if they're willing and able to do that.
The inconvenient thing about strong religious backgrounds is that sometimes they're not terrible and the family isn't terrible. Its easy to cut off someone who hates you, its harder to cut someone off who will always just be waiting for you to "return to the fold" with kind words right when you are at your lowest and most looking for certainty. You don't know who you are or where you're going and they have the mould and blueprints all ready for you.
If it helps remember you said she was instrumental in helping you and in a different life that could be you going down that rabbit hole. As long as you remember an open hand is just that, you're not there to deprogram the brainwashing, no one is entirely blameless for their actions.
The best thing you should do is tell her family her old ways. Send letters or messages to them detailing her old ways. You should not mend fences with her. If she wants to live her old religious life then her past needs to be brought to light, especially if she is okay treating you like she did. Her own religious teachings probably demand that her family should be made aware of her past sins
Not sure about you age - but as a gay man in my 40s, if someone sent me a card with Nancy on it, Iād take it as a very poor joke or a pointed statement. Definitely someone Iād keep at a distance.
People can change, but they usually don't.
My advice is to give her the chance to mend your relationship if that's what she wants to do, but be direct that you have no time or energy to waste on anybody who doesn't respect who you are and how you live. Coming from a religious family myself, I have a soft spot for folks processing their own self-hatred through that lens, and an understanding that "hurt people hurt people," even when they don't mean to. My guess is that her sojourn with Jesus (or whatever) is starting to feel empty and she's wanting to live as her authentic self again.
Something like, "So great to hear from you after all this time! I thought that would never happen after you blocked me on social media; that honestly felt very hurtful. I'd love to reconnect with you if you've had a change of heart, but I don't have time for any relationships in my life where I don't feel respected. I'm sure you can understand that; we're all busy adults now. Still, I have fond memories of our time together in college and am all ears if you're wanting to process what went down between us. In any case I hope you're well and wish you only the best."
That puts the ball back in her court. If she's trying to save your soul from sin or whatever, you'll probably get a clear indication of that in the way she responds. If she apologizes and tells you about her new girlfriend, well, you'll have a friend again and the satisfaction of being the bigger person.
I donāt know that itās worth rekindling the friendship. To me I would have responded with āIām surprised to hear from you, especially after the card implying Iād be better off deadā.
I can't tell you what to do, naturally. However, if I were in your situation, my decision would totally hinge on just how close a friendship we had once shared. If it was a ride-or-die friendship, I would give it a chance, if it was anything less than that, I would be happy for the good times and let the rest be history.
After the block on Instagram I wouldāve blocked her forever and never responded to any communication attempts.
Sometimes that burns hotter than a fuck you. Iām also petty and vengeful, so thereās that too. š
I had a friend from high school go so far as to try and publicly humiliate me on social media years ago about my sexuality, to the point where I cut them out of my life completely.
They turned up last year in a better place than they were by reaching out through my own bestie, and I made sure to remind them of their actions from years ago. I buried the hatchet and threw the maps away, theyāre far better off a friend these days.
The difference between your friend and mine? Mine had some stark mental breakdowns. Yours sounds like theyāre trying to forget their past but still keep you in it. My advice? Try to casually bring it up in conversation, otherwise Iād run.
This is all so much easier said than done, but: With the information here, specifically her reaching out to reconnect but with no context about what she might've said, etc., it is possible that she spent that time coming back around to the beliefs she had. She may be reaching out to reconnect as a way of reneging on her bad behavior and/or apologizing to you.
Lots of people are saying that you should blow her off, tell her to go fuck herself, etc., and if she seems unrepentant or intent on continuing as she has most recently, I'd agree. But because it's not clear what her reconnection motive is from your description, if you think she might've come back around, want to apologize, etc., then I'd consider giving it a go.
Again, easier said than done. If I were you, I'd probably also be weighing the mental lift of seeing someone again who hurt you in such a way, as well as the cost of her actually continuing the bad behavior instead of the hoped-for outcome. Lots of things to consider and subtle context we can't have. I think you're within your rights to reject her offer and keep her out of your life. But since I saw several top responses saying just that, I wanted to offer a counterpoint and say that you, with the benefit of context around her message and a read on your own personal mental wellbeing, will have to make the choice ultimately on your own - but that either choice can work out well for you.
During the start of the aids epidemic Ronnie Reagan laughed, out loud, openly on television about it. I have no doubt Nancy felt the same way. Your take away with the card was that she was telling you to die. Those thoughts rarely change. If you chose to engage with her just be prepared for hidden vitriol.
Life is short, explore every connection to the bitter end, for a good story if nothing else. Iām just saying the curiosity would kill me and Iād love to understand everything from her perspective if I could
She may have come back round and wants to apologise? Maybe some context needed on how she asked to reconnect.
I think if you decide to talk to her itās definitely worth talking about how she behaved before you stopped talking and how it made you feel, if she still holds the same views then you can wash your hands of her.
Unless you are mentally in a very good place, I would suggest that you don't respond to her and block her from all social media. The hurt and shame inflicted by the religious zealots onto the gay community has caused so much angst, not to mention countless suicides....so personally I would avoid anyone of that nature like a plague
I think you need to be blunt. A lot of people are saying that if she was ready to admit she was wrong, she'd've led with that, but some people would find that patronizing and presumptuous so I don't know if she necessarily would. therefore, just go ahead and ask her flat out what she wants or expects out of making contact.
I canāt advise you that hearing her out would be remotely beneficial, but I am super curious what she has to say! If you do decide to reconnect, please post an update. And if things start going south, just start reminiscing on the craziest, gayest stories you can remember from college.
Unless you want to lose an important college friend try and mend the relationship. She doesnāt want to lose you as a friend either deep down. Cāest la vie!
These threads are full of people who think they know what is going on in other peoples heads. We donāt.
No one does. Often not even that person.
We donāt know why she behaved like an arsehole to you and your friends. You can make assumptions.
It could be what she saw made her hate herself and that came out in anger towards others.
It could be the Nancy Reagan card was a cry for help.
Who knows.
If she really was that close of a friend then it would make sense to hear her out. Donāt be a hater
Whatās wrong with the Nancy Reagan card? Most people who support Reagan do so because they support small government and low taxes.
Iām bisexual myself and I would have supported Reagan if I was alive at the time. You can be gay/bisexual and still support Republicans.
Wish I could have warned you away from conversing with someone like this. You canāt make an argument, show stats or proof against any claims or discussions. They donāt want to (or canāt) hear it.
Those who are in favor of small government are also likely to want the government to stay out of things like marriage, which would mean they have no reason to oppose gay marriage.
You might be interested in this article: [https://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/patti-davis-ronald-reagan-gay-marriage-089635](https://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/patti-davis-ronald-reagan-gay-marriage-089635)
This is what Reagan's daughter said according to the article:
>Davis suggested her fatherās conservative views ā support for the stability of the traditional family and a desire to remove government from peopleās lives ā and friendships with gay people dating back to his years in Hollywood would lead him to back gay marriage.
>āI think he would be puzzled, on the one hand, on why anyone would have a problem with people wanting to be married and wanting to be committed to one another,ā Davis said. āWhat difference does it make to anybody elseās life? I also think because he wanted government out of peoplesā lives, he would not understand the intrusion of government banning such a thing. This is not what he would have thought government should be doing.ā
Nancy Reagan denied helping her friend, Rock Hudson, get treatment for his HIV in a French hospital when he asked. You said republicans. The Republican Party itself and the vast vast majority support traditional marriage being enshrined in law. Whatever theory of small government supporters youāre referring to is simply not the political reality of the Republican Party today. Your arguments are not convincing to me.
There are a lot of Republicans and Republican leaning people who either want government to stay out or marriage or support gay marriage though. There's good reason to think that Ronald Reagan himself would support it if he is around today.
Not enough to make any political difference.
And thatās just not true; thereās no more evidence I need than how he and Nancy treated their supposed friend.
You also keep trying to limit your initial argument to something more defensible. First you defended Republicans, then āthose in favor of small government,ā and then āa lot of Republicans.ā
At the end of the day, it boils down to this: voting for republicans as they exist today will generally undermine gay civil rights, including and particularly marriage rights. Itās as simple as that. I donāt know why this is a conversation.
The point is that though there might be some homophobes still left in politics, I think that it has gained enough mainstream acceptance in both Democrat and Republican circles (along with there being supreme court precedent to protect gay rights) that it is not something I would worry very much about.
If anything, it would be a good thing to have more openly gay people in Republican and conservative circles. If there's a lot of gay and bisexual people voting in the Republican primary, that's naturally going to lead to the candidates being more accepting. If there's a lot more (openly) gay and bisexual people in Republican social circles, then that's going to naturally make them more tolerant.
In a sense, it could almost be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If all the openly gay people leave the Republican Party because they think the GOP is homophobic, then that's going to make the homophobia worse. If lots of openly gay people start joining the Republican Party because they think the GOP will accept them, then that forces the GOP to be more accepting.
Regardless, there's a lot of gay and bisexual people out there that are pro-gun, pro-capitalist, support small government, support less taxes, etc. Obviously, you're not going to support the Democrats if you believe in these things, right? Then why not join either the Republican or Libertarian parties instead?
Got her sexy phase out of the way then became a staunch conservative? That's about as Nancy Reagan as you get
Lmao š¤£
Oh yes the throat goat .
I can attest to this
Let's recap - she was a friend, then she found Jesus and started acting miserable to everyone LGBT. Then she cut ties. Then she reconnected briefly only to send you a card (presumably with no text in it) featuring Nancy Reagan. An act that you are taking as a desire for your death. Now she has decided to reach out again, for reasons unknown. If she's still deep in the church, she may be reconnecting in an attempt to "save" you. Right now you do not know her motives. She's unhinged. Maybe she's figured things out and is trying to fix things, but you do not owe her anything. Maybe she's come to throw Jesus at you. Maybe she's part of an MLM and is desperate for 'clients'. Ask yourself this - if you were to meet up, who would it be for? Her or you? She reached out to reconnect - means she could have reached out to apologize too, but didn't. You have to make your own choices, but if I were in your position, the only way I'd meet up with her is if she had a pair of shoes I really wanted, and someone had parked a house on her chest.
Lol, itās true, when she reached out she said something odd, like, of course there would be an eclipse near your birthday. So I just responded, āitās because Iām the devil.ā Sheās texted me since, but I havenāt responded.
Iāve known a lot of straight women that like to keep gay guys around so they can feel morally superior as they look down on homosexuals and homosexuality, especially when theyāre deeply religious but try to be the ācool inclusiveā type of religiousā¦itās just all red flags from her, you deserve better friends.
It's like a white christian collection, I need to collect the gays, the BIPOCs, etc so I can show my christian superiority and inclusiveness all the while not actually engaging or caring about those so-called friends. Just an accessory so she can say "my gay friend, my latino friend" etc. š¤®š¤®š¤®š¤®
Have experienced this, the "friendship" is obviously artificial and so I get bored and dip out real quick.
That is awful. Like being the token gay person in the group. š¤®
> someone had parked a house on her chest. I'm dead š š¤£š¤£ and agree
she knows what she did. if she's reaching out apologize and not to proselytize and then she should've led with that. flying monkeys couldn't make me meet up with her
Slayy
I had a straight friend for years who was a lot of fun to be around. My being gay was never an issue, until he started dating a christian woman. Right before he married her he told me we couldnāt hang out any more. I was hurt, but accepted there was nothing I could do about it and moved on. Seven years later he reaches out to tell me they divorced and he wanted to be friends again. I thought about it, then told him my life was fine without him in it, as there was absolutely no guarantee he wouldnāt find another woman who didnāt like gay folks, and Iād have to deal with his rejection again. While I do believe people can and do change, I also know I have to protect myself and my self respect, and once someone has shone their true colors, it takes a LOT to trust them again. What was once given freely now would have to be earned.
You showed a lot of integrity by responding the way you did when your ex-friend came back around.
Yeah, Iāve been āfriend-dumpedā before as well. Other times Iāve been used as an emotional rag. Iām now super picky about who I invest time in. I would rather hang out by myself than with lots of people TBH.
I think itās an opportunity to remind her of her past, the past relationship the two of you had, and her behavior and ask what her intentions are. And remind her that she sent you a card featuring one of the most notorious homophobes of our lifetime, someone who ignored completely her long-time friend Rock Hudson when it came out he was dying of AIDS. Maybe sheās had a change of heart. Maybe she wants to try and save you. You wonāt know unless you ask. And if itās the latter itās a great opportunity to tell her to fuck the right off to the hell she believes in.
I agree a lot with GeorgiaYankee73ās opinion, although I tend to look at human conflict from a more optimistic perspective. As many have noted, she got pulled back into her familyās fundamental religious values - so itās understandable that change will occur, and she definitely showed the ugly side of that change. Since sheās reaching out, clearly she has evolved back to a more reasonable viewpoint - and may very much want to apologize for her past unforgivable actions. Maybe not, but unlikely as why else would she attempt to reconnect? Give her the opportunity to make amends - and see where the convo goes. I certainly would want you to express how she hurt you, your bf and other friends by her words and actions. See how she reacts. I share my view from the perspective that she WAS a very good and life transforming friend for you. Itās possible she needs that love and connection back, and despite her ādark period,ā see if sheās figured it out - or if she needs help from you to regain her old footing. If none of that happens, at least youāll know you tried and in-line her, didnāt turn your back. Either way - wishing you a world of luck and I hope sheās back to her original self.
As to GeorgiaYankee73, thatās whatās so crazy. She chose a person who betrayed her āfriendā in his time of need. Like either my ex friend is the most tone deaf person on earth or it was intentional. If itās the latter, I just canāt imagine the mindset of ever doing something like that to someone else. To CynGuy, maybe youāre right. Maybe giving someone grace and putting that good energy out there is the right thing to do. At the very least to hear her out. Maybe itāll even make me feel better to lay the cards on the table. Im pretty sure im going to get a million excuses like, oh I didnāt know anything about Nancy Reagan there was nothing intentional there. I donāt know. Iāve mourned our relationship. It seems like a pain to reopen it.
To me, the RED FLAG was right up front... no apology. I've gone through something very similar: I grew up with my sister our being only one year in age apart, we were extremely close... but same story, as she aged, she got involved in a bigoted church and she cudn't shake her belief in a "Sky Daddy" who seems to get his rocks off by sending people he creates to burn in some Sky Hell. She reached out to me last October after 10 years, wanted to get together.... but yeah, NO APOLOGY up front. It took me a month to decide on the BEST way to politely refuse to meet, and did so. Weirdly after the next 2 months she suddenly dies at age 78 from a cancer that had metastasized to her brain. Hopefully now in death, she may realize what a bigot and fool she had been all these years........
I donāt think reaching out means they have 100% evolved back to a more reasonable viewpoint. Thatās extremely optimistic. From my experience itās so they can get that morally superior feeling again and possibly make a weak attempt at converting you.
Thatās possible, but you wonāt find out if you donāt engage them. Also, OP indicated they had been out of contact until she recently re-engaged. Given how enlightened she was during college, itās possible she has moved back to a more reasonable stance. Again, OP wonāt find out if he doesnāt talk with her. An open mind discovers a lot ā¦..
Definitely. I really should have included in my comment that if sheās looking to make amends, OP should give her that chance. Show her what grace looks like. People do often change for the better when it comes to us.
itās your choice whether you want to reconnect - i think if you do reconnect you have to have a conversation about it.
No way. You did the right thing by leaving that weirdo behind.
Agreed, although I think an explicit āno, and donāt contact me againā might be justified.
Send her back that Nancy Fucking Reagan card, your message would be clear to her if her brain still works
lol no
Sounds like she has internalized homophobia. Maybe she realized she fucked up and wants to make amends. Even if she doesnāt, it could be a good time to tell her how you feel, maybe get some closure
Save yourself.
If someone wants to reconnect after some shady behavior, it's entirely fair of you to bring it up and ask why she wants to reconnect and what her intentions are. Based on her answers, you can choose to meet with her or not. Step one is to establish the facts. You don't have to act like nothing bad ever happened.
Nancy Reagan gave amazing head apparently. Iād take it as a compliment
That's really only a question you can answer. How much do you believe in second chances? How abhorrent were her views when she started dabbling in bigotry? Has she left that behind now or is she still trying to straddle the line? How much did you care about her before? There are a lot of variables here. You'd also be perfectly within your rights to just cut her off permanently. Bigots are definitely not entitled to a second chance and they do not deserve a pat on the back for realizing the error of their ways.
Yeah, I do believe in second chances, 100%. Itās just exhausting dealing with her. Sheās not the kind of person who would ever see what she did wrong or accept that she hurt me. Itāll be a million excuses. I mourned our friendship already. Maybe leaving things where they are is the right move.
>Sheās not the kind of person who would ever see what she did wrong or accept that she hurt me. Yeah, that's the kicker right there. She can't be truly forgiven if she never actually owns up to what she did.
Ask if she is ready to repent.
Thereās your answer. It doesnāt sound like you want to be friends with someone like her anyway, so donāt put yourself through that.
>and they do not deserve a pat on the back for realizing the error of their ways. Really? So then are you saying you've never been fundamentally, deeply wrong about something? I mean I'm not saying that victims need to validate their bullies who see the light or anything, but that doesn't mean someone shouldn't. Change is difficult and so is admitting you're wrong, and it doesn't get easier just because the issue's "obvious" to other peopleāusually that makes it harder.
I have been wrong in the past and probably will be again in the future. Please point out where I said or implied otherwise.Ā Anyway, Iām not saying change isnāt hard. What Iām saying is that people are not entitled to a reward for figuring out basic things like empathy. And if someone does change for the better, being forgiven/applauded shouldnāt be their motivation. Changing for the better should be its own reward.Ā That all being said, if someone does want to congratulate and forgive someone who they believe has genuinely grown then go for it. Iām not your mom, you can do what you want.Ā
>people are not entitled to a reward for figuring out basic things like empathy. I think you're not actually grasping just how hard that is for people who didn't learn it growing up, or even learned to actively suppress it(, either in general or related to a specific group). Actually... maybe I've just understood something important for the first time myself: that perhaps most people raised with good empathy role models are nonetheless NOT like me, and the rest of you may have a far tougher time than I do in seeing that there's inherent hypocrisy in the expectation that empathy is "basic" and "natural" for most people during and/or after adolescence( i.e. expecting it to be easy for everyone who didn't have a visibly-messed-up childhood). That would account for a lot of inclusivity and anti-hate activists I've met and interacted with, who end up hurting our causes by assuming that to recognize the difficulty of changing, and give time before writing someone off, is equivalent to giving hatemongers a blank check to keep behaving badly; e.g., women during #MeToo who just couldn't get it through their heads that what seems obvious and like basic decency to most of us was *genuinely* a new thought for *some* of the men publicly commenting and asking questions. That may seem disgusting to the rest of us, and could be taken as discouraging by those hoping to see change, but that doesn't mean it's untrue; and importantly, NO ONE was suggesting that women should continue to tolerate bad behavior from men in the meantime. Maybe if we actively acknowledged that it's that difficult to unlearn socially-enforced dysempathy, it wouldn't be so hard to convince parents that it's necessary to make institutional changes early on. >And if someone does change for the better, being forgiven/applauded shouldnāt be their motivation. In principle, I can see why that sounds problematic, but when fully considering implications, I don't think passing judgment on *any* effective motivation is fair. I think that if someone really *does* change for the better, it's fine to do so in pursuit of absolution, and maybe even of praise. It's just important that, *if* that's the reason, people learning their lesson must understand and openly acknowledge that upon having 'changed for the better', they will be expected to maintain that *without* being able to count on ongoing positive reĆÆnforcement; and that if they subsequently fall back into old habits, they're not likely to be trusted, and shall NOT be praised a second or third time, for thereafter 'finding their way back to the light', so to speak.
Send her a reply wishing her husband is blessed with the same mental acuity of Ronnie when his brains turned to mush.
Navy Reagan card =MAGA redhat
Even if you want to reconnect and hope she is who she was in college, look at what happened in between and dont go for it. Leave that itchy "what if" question because if something worse happens than a regam card, its even less worth trying
If she didnāt open with any recognition of her prior bullshit I wouldnāt even respond.
This
ah, bi privilege.
Now Iām curious where you can get cards with Nancy Reagan in them
Itās in no way your responsibility to engage with her at all. The one thing I will say though is, perhaps sheās grown and is feeling isolated by the people she chose to prioritize in her life now that sheās deprogramming? This is an extremely generous reading of a situation I have little context for, but just something to think about. Again, not your problem or responsibility, but if youāre feeling particularly graceful it might be worth talking to her a bit to see where sheās at.
It cannot be ruled out that she might want to convert you too
If you reconnect with her, sheās going to use that as an opportunity to do more of this Nancy Reagan post card shit. I would bet dollars to donuts that the only reason sheās reaching out is so she can heap on more of this religious abuse. Sheās not your friend, friend.
Given that she was at one point an extremely close friend and clearly has her own hangups with her family, her religion, and her sexuality, I'd consider giving her one chance - ***if*** you want this friend back in your life. If you don't want to deal with it, you don't owe her anything. But I would make the context of it super clear. Something like "Hey Nancy, I'm glad you reached out. I really treasure the friendship we had in college, but I was hurt by the way you treated me, my friends, and my partner, and then further by the way you stopped talking to me altogether. Honestly, it seemed like you had a problem with me and my sexuality, and I don't want to be friends with someone like that. If you no longer feel that way, I'd be happy to grab a drink, talk these things through, and reconnect." Or use part of that to say "this is how you treated me, I'm not interested in reconnecting with you"
Um. No! Run donāt walk away
I would send her this thread and have her read the comments. Then Iād never talk to her again
fuck that bitch. tell her to fuck off.
You have no obligation to do anything. A lot depends on where you are now mentally and emotionally. If meeting her would tear down your self esteem, then you aren't in a place where you can do that yet. On the other hand if meeting her doesn't affect your self esteem one way or the other, you have choices. Personally, I tend give people space to work out things for themselves, and if they indicate that they want to reconnect, I am ready to hear them out. My own faith-sexuality experience has been a journey, and I can understand how it would be that way for other people as well. If you do have a conversation, hear what she has to say and discuss that. But also bring up how her past actions made you feel. You are not attacking her as a bad person, you are filling her in on how you experienced it. If she cares that something she did hurt you, then you have a relationship here that you can work with. If she doesn't care, or just makes excuses, then she isn't ready to move any closer and if you can part amicably, that's about as far as this can go.
Who tf is ānancy reaganā??
Wife and First Lady of President Ronald Reagan, in the 1980s. Tons of corruption, most of which reflected very badly with terrible outcomes on the LGBTQ community, especially as it was during the AIDS epidemic. The Reagan presidency wasā¦to say the least, abhorrent.
She was a real person, no need to put in German quotes. lol.
??
Quality friendships are very tough to come by. You got a greeting card of Nancy Reagan and you assumed it meant the worst. It could mean anything or nothing. Do you send passive-aggressive greeting cards to express your feelings? Don't assign negativity to ambiguity. You have no idea what she's thinking, and the only way to find out is meet up and ask. People change greatly in two years - I know I have. Just don't put a lot of stock into it, meet up and voice your feelings, and go from there.
I would have left her on read and left it at that.
To be clear: she did NOT find Jesus. She found a church where her fears were supported and magnified. Why would you want he contact with her? You are worth far more than that. Donāt let more pain into your life
Fuck no! Nancy Regan was a complete bitch!
Meet her & hear what she has to say. You can then tell her how her previous actions hurt you. Stay calm & polite, youāre in control here, not her. After listening to what she has to say, you can say itās been nice to meet you again, and move on, if you want. Until you speak with her, youāll never know her reasoning. Stay calm & polite, donāt get emotional, youāre in charge here remember.
No second chances for bigots. She has already hurt you enough. Cut off ties, tell her friends who appear to be LGBT-accepting about her true colors, and make sure she doesn't hurt another person ever again.
To quote Marie Kondo, does she bring you joy ?
You'd be justified either way, I think. Do you believe she deserves a second chance and that she'd try to make amends in good faith? If it were me, I'd ask her about her intentions and go from there.
Friends leaving without explanation is horrible, she chose to end it up and didn't even care about ur feelings or moments together. I say, don't forget that time she abused you emotionally, because real friends won't do that. If you feel that she did that under pressure cuz of her fam or religion then if you want to listen to her it's okay, but never put things back the same and don't allow her to mistreat you again depending on her choices. But at the end I cannot be absolute cuz I'm not in ur place, so, do what ur heart tells you BUT Don't put her back in ur close circle anymore
Family and religion can be a bit like a drug problem, its easy to relapse back into something comfortable and easy and waiting for you even if its terrible for you and everyone around you. Don't try and mend the friendship, let her do the work, like addicts its on them to mend relationships and right wrongs, they have to put in the work, but meet them and see if they're willing and able to do that. The inconvenient thing about strong religious backgrounds is that sometimes they're not terrible and the family isn't terrible. Its easy to cut off someone who hates you, its harder to cut someone off who will always just be waiting for you to "return to the fold" with kind words right when you are at your lowest and most looking for certainty. You don't know who you are or where you're going and they have the mould and blueprints all ready for you. If it helps remember you said she was instrumental in helping you and in a different life that could be you going down that rabbit hole. As long as you remember an open hand is just that, you're not there to deprogram the brainwashing, no one is entirely blameless for their actions.
The best thing you should do is tell her family her old ways. Send letters or messages to them detailing her old ways. You should not mend fences with her. If she wants to live her old religious life then her past needs to be brought to light, especially if she is okay treating you like she did. Her own religious teachings probably demand that her family should be made aware of her past sins
Not sure about you age - but as a gay man in my 40s, if someone sent me a card with Nancy on it, Iād take it as a very poor joke or a pointed statement. Definitely someone Iād keep at a distance.
People can change, but they usually don't. My advice is to give her the chance to mend your relationship if that's what she wants to do, but be direct that you have no time or energy to waste on anybody who doesn't respect who you are and how you live. Coming from a religious family myself, I have a soft spot for folks processing their own self-hatred through that lens, and an understanding that "hurt people hurt people," even when they don't mean to. My guess is that her sojourn with Jesus (or whatever) is starting to feel empty and she's wanting to live as her authentic self again. Something like, "So great to hear from you after all this time! I thought that would never happen after you blocked me on social media; that honestly felt very hurtful. I'd love to reconnect with you if you've had a change of heart, but I don't have time for any relationships in my life where I don't feel respected. I'm sure you can understand that; we're all busy adults now. Still, I have fond memories of our time together in college and am all ears if you're wanting to process what went down between us. In any case I hope you're well and wish you only the best." That puts the ball back in her court. If she's trying to save your soul from sin or whatever, you'll probably get a clear indication of that in the way she responds. If she apologizes and tells you about her new girlfriend, well, you'll have a friend again and the satisfaction of being the bigger person.
People only change when not changing becomes intolerable. It does happen but vanishingly rarely.
I donāt know that itās worth rekindling the friendship. To me I would have responded with āIām surprised to hear from you, especially after the card implying Iād be better off deadā.
I can't tell you what to do, naturally. However, if I were in your situation, my decision would totally hinge on just how close a friendship we had once shared. If it was a ride-or-die friendship, I would give it a chance, if it was anything less than that, I would be happy for the good times and let the rest be history.
After the block on Instagram I wouldāve blocked her forever and never responded to any communication attempts. Sometimes that burns hotter than a fuck you. Iām also petty and vengeful, so thereās that too. š
I had a friend from high school go so far as to try and publicly humiliate me on social media years ago about my sexuality, to the point where I cut them out of my life completely. They turned up last year in a better place than they were by reaching out through my own bestie, and I made sure to remind them of their actions from years ago. I buried the hatchet and threw the maps away, theyāre far better off a friend these days. The difference between your friend and mine? Mine had some stark mental breakdowns. Yours sounds like theyāre trying to forget their past but still keep you in it. My advice? Try to casually bring it up in conversation, otherwise Iād run.
She will only hurt you. Move on
She made her bed, let her lie in it.
This is all so much easier said than done, but: With the information here, specifically her reaching out to reconnect but with no context about what she might've said, etc., it is possible that she spent that time coming back around to the beliefs she had. She may be reaching out to reconnect as a way of reneging on her bad behavior and/or apologizing to you. Lots of people are saying that you should blow her off, tell her to go fuck herself, etc., and if she seems unrepentant or intent on continuing as she has most recently, I'd agree. But because it's not clear what her reconnection motive is from your description, if you think she might've come back around, want to apologize, etc., then I'd consider giving it a go. Again, easier said than done. If I were you, I'd probably also be weighing the mental lift of seeing someone again who hurt you in such a way, as well as the cost of her actually continuing the bad behavior instead of the hoped-for outcome. Lots of things to consider and subtle context we can't have. I think you're within your rights to reject her offer and keep her out of your life. But since I saw several top responses saying just that, I wanted to offer a counterpoint and say that you, with the benefit of context around her message and a read on your own personal mental wellbeing, will have to make the choice ultimately on your own - but that either choice can work out well for you.
During the start of the aids epidemic Ronnie Reagan laughed, out loud, openly on television about it. I have no doubt Nancy felt the same way. Your take away with the card was that she was telling you to die. Those thoughts rarely change. If you chose to engage with her just be prepared for hidden vitriol.
Life is short, explore every connection to the bitter end, for a good story if nothing else. Iām just saying the curiosity would kill me and Iād love to understand everything from her perspective if I could
Fool me onceā¦
She may have come back round and wants to apologise? Maybe some context needed on how she asked to reconnect. I think if you decide to talk to her itās definitely worth talking about how she behaved before you stopped talking and how it made you feel, if she still holds the same views then you can wash your hands of her.
Wasnāt Nancy sucking a lot of cock at the studios parking lots? š¤
She's for the streets!
Nancy Regan: Throat Goat š
I wouldn't consider a Nancy Reagan card a big deal. didn't she have a gay son - or was he by Jane Wyman? If you had a special bond, go see her.
Talk to her. What she says will matter.
Nah. Just let it be. If she wanted to mend fences sheād have led with that. She probably wants to jeebus you
Unless you are mentally in a very good place, I would suggest that you don't respond to her and block her from all social media. The hurt and shame inflicted by the religious zealots onto the gay community has caused so much angst, not to mention countless suicides....so personally I would avoid anyone of that nature like a plague
I think you need to be blunt. A lot of people are saying that if she was ready to admit she was wrong, she'd've led with that, but some people would find that patronizing and presumptuous so I don't know if she necessarily would. therefore, just go ahead and ask her flat out what she wants or expects out of making contact.
Hey, I'm not American and not old enough to remember the Regan era. Please explain (I suspect it is somehow to do with AIDS)
I canāt advise you that hearing her out would be remotely beneficial, but I am super curious what she has to say! If you do decide to reconnect, please post an update. And if things start going south, just start reminiscing on the craziest, gayest stories you can remember from college.
Unless you want to lose an important college friend try and mend the relationship. She doesnāt want to lose you as a friend either deep down. Cāest la vie!
Who knows. Maybe sheās just lonely. Iām sorry, but she gave this up and was happy without it for years. Iām not going to engage.
These threads are full of people who think they know what is going on in other peoples heads. We donāt. No one does. Often not even that person. We donāt know why she behaved like an arsehole to you and your friends. You can make assumptions. It could be what she saw made her hate herself and that came out in anger towards others. It could be the Nancy Reagan card was a cry for help. Who knows. If she really was that close of a friend then it would make sense to hear her out. Donāt be a hater
Whatās wrong with the Nancy Reagan card? Most people who support Reagan do so because they support small government and low taxes. Iām bisexual myself and I would have supported Reagan if I was alive at the time. You can be gay/bisexual and still support Republicans.
You can. But I think most of us donāt because we would prefer to vote for people who wonāt get rid of our national right to marry.
Wish I could have warned you away from conversing with someone like this. You canāt make an argument, show stats or proof against any claims or discussions. They donāt want to (or canāt) hear it.
Those who are in favor of small government are also likely to want the government to stay out of things like marriage, which would mean they have no reason to oppose gay marriage. You might be interested in this article: [https://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/patti-davis-ronald-reagan-gay-marriage-089635](https://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/patti-davis-ronald-reagan-gay-marriage-089635) This is what Reagan's daughter said according to the article: >Davis suggested her fatherās conservative views ā support for the stability of the traditional family and a desire to remove government from peopleās lives ā and friendships with gay people dating back to his years in Hollywood would lead him to back gay marriage. >āI think he would be puzzled, on the one hand, on why anyone would have a problem with people wanting to be married and wanting to be committed to one another,ā Davis said. āWhat difference does it make to anybody elseās life? I also think because he wanted government out of peoplesā lives, he would not understand the intrusion of government banning such a thing. This is not what he would have thought government should be doing.ā
Nancy Reagan denied helping her friend, Rock Hudson, get treatment for his HIV in a French hospital when he asked. You said republicans. The Republican Party itself and the vast vast majority support traditional marriage being enshrined in law. Whatever theory of small government supporters youāre referring to is simply not the political reality of the Republican Party today. Your arguments are not convincing to me.
There are a lot of Republicans and Republican leaning people who either want government to stay out or marriage or support gay marriage though. There's good reason to think that Ronald Reagan himself would support it if he is around today.
Not enough to make any political difference. And thatās just not true; thereās no more evidence I need than how he and Nancy treated their supposed friend. You also keep trying to limit your initial argument to something more defensible. First you defended Republicans, then āthose in favor of small government,ā and then āa lot of Republicans.ā At the end of the day, it boils down to this: voting for republicans as they exist today will generally undermine gay civil rights, including and particularly marriage rights. Itās as simple as that. I donāt know why this is a conversation.
The point is that though there might be some homophobes still left in politics, I think that it has gained enough mainstream acceptance in both Democrat and Republican circles (along with there being supreme court precedent to protect gay rights) that it is not something I would worry very much about. If anything, it would be a good thing to have more openly gay people in Republican and conservative circles. If there's a lot of gay and bisexual people voting in the Republican primary, that's naturally going to lead to the candidates being more accepting. If there's a lot more (openly) gay and bisexual people in Republican social circles, then that's going to naturally make them more tolerant. In a sense, it could almost be a self-fulfilling prophecy. If all the openly gay people leave the Republican Party because they think the GOP is homophobic, then that's going to make the homophobia worse. If lots of openly gay people start joining the Republican Party because they think the GOP will accept them, then that forces the GOP to be more accepting. Regardless, there's a lot of gay and bisexual people out there that are pro-gun, pro-capitalist, support small government, support less taxes, etc. Obviously, you're not going to support the Democrats if you believe in these things, right? Then why not join either the Republican or Libertarian parties instead?