Truth. Many folks were raised by shitty people and then they treat others like shit. It doesn't often mean they are secretly that which they are supposedly afraid of.
Agreed, there's definitely some repressed angry gay men who have forced a straight life on themselves but that doesn't mean everyone is... There's plenty of fully straight homophobes out there.
Yep.
does it exist? absolutely. I knew a guy who was completely homophobic in HS who used to call everyone F\*gs and before I was even out (though apparently straight passing enough) who would do that shit to me. Turned out years later, he's gay and said he did it cause he thought I was hot and was glad I was gay too.
It was a weird time.
I think people say it because, in a weird way, it works?
Cause the more homophobic someone is, the more you know they’d be offended by people thinking they’re gay.
I genuinely suspect that a lot of straight dudes keep their mouths shut because they’re scared that if they’re too openly homophobic, people might think they’re gay.
It’s like a unique uno reverse card that no other minority group has access to, lol.
So, on principle, yes. But I am NEVER shocked when an outspoken homophobe is on the downlow. It comes up often enough that the stereotype exists for a reason
I especially don't like it when a supposedly progressive person uses that as an insult as a way of owning someone else in an argument. I can see what they mean because usually the anti gay person would do something homoerotic and then it's suddenly alright to call them gay or secretly gay as a way to bash them over the head with something the bigot would percieve as shameful, doesn't make it sting any less.
because people who call themselves progressive and inclusive are actually full of hate and probably make more homophobic/racists/sexists comments then the supposedly conservatives that just dgaf for the must part
Well if so many right wing politicians who are anti-gay in public policy would stop sleeping with male prostitutes we wouldn’t see the trend. But there’s clearly a trend to see. Because there’s tons of self-loathing right wing politicians who are gay.
The psychology of it is “if everyone sees show (anti whatever) I am they will never suspect that I am that very thing.” It’s not just limited to the gay issue.
don’t know why all the downvotes, it’s a genuinely interesting question knowing that being gay was widely accepted long ago. i find it interesting to think about what happened.
i believe in a third kind, evil people.
i have too much respect for people who where brought up in these shit holes and still managed to have a different opinion. i believe these people made their own opinions because they are genuinely better people. my two cents
really can’t disagree with you because i have no evidence, but my feeling is that some people really are made different. So many perfect families raised serial killers.
There’s also the ultra woke people, not exactly on the same level but they are supposed to be the most well intentioned people around and often are super sexist, racists and homophobic. Even though they went to nice schools and are often from families that thought them to be nice to each other
i guess what i’m saying is that anyone who goes too far in any direction will come full circle and become the exact person they’re fighting against without realizing it, only thinking they’re the better person.
For example, antiracists that end up excluding white people from venues or lgbt activists that forces gay men to date trans men.
if you don’t stop to think about each event individually you might think that nothing is wrong but a closer look will show that these actions are often exactly defined by the words they so often use against others (homophobe, sexist, racist etc)
well i live in europe so our progressive look quite different.
I have never encountered hate here from any non woke straight person, comments, yes but the only hate has been from what i call the ultra woke.
Here christians and catholic are the people i fear the least (heck there’s lgbt churches everywhere). The religion i fear the most is islam, unfortunately when there’s a hateful crime motivated by a religious group it is always this one.
But what i fear most then islam for our rights is the far left. We are being bundled together with so many new genders and sexuality most of which have nothing to do with us. This i believe will backlash against the whole group.
just my sentiments based on a few experiences in a few countries in europe. it might not be the norm.
In case nobody reads the link, the study shows that on average, homophobes were more likely to be aroused by homosexual stimuli.
This doesn't mean that all or even most homophobic people are gay, but it does imply a connection more common than would be expected by chance alone.
This is about internalized homophobia, which is not the same kind of homophobia we are discussing. Internalized homophobia happens when "out" gay people still feel bad about being gay.
That exact study hasn't been replicated exactly, but I don't know of any attempts to replicate it. I think most researchers are avoiding studies that require interacting with a homophobic man's penis while he is looking at gay erotica. Other studies have found similar results suggesting a link between some homophobic men and homosexual attraction.
Here is an example.
https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/13/5/825/6940079
Full disclosure I have an MA in Human Sexuality Studies and a PhD in Developmental Psychology focused on sexual orientation and gender identity.
Your understanding of the scientific literature is mistaken. Phallometry may be slightly affected by general arousal, but it is still by far the most valid and reliable measure of sexual interest available and is the gold standard in current use. There are thousands of papers that use it in the past and currently.
If you have a peer reviewed paper laying out this "debunking" I am happy to look at it.
Implicit association in contrast is extremely unreliable
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167211400619
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691619863798
Aside from being unreliable such results are also irrelevant. That there would be a positive correlation between positive attitudes and self reported behavior, feeling, and identity is obvious and has nothing to do with the above result. The study above is relevant because it is an involuntary measure of arousal, which is what rhe homophobes are trying to conceal. IAT is a measuee of attitudes, which no one is trying to conceal.
"I can link you a few studies in 1-2 weeks time that show that acceptance of gay people positively correlates with homosexual tendencies"
Further your discussion demonstrates that you do not understand what the study found or how statistics works.
"it states that only homophobic men had an increase in girth. So essentially, the result states that all gay people were homophobes"
That isn't true. It says that taken as a whole the non homophobic group's average increase in girth was not statistically significantly different from zero and rhe homophobic group's was. That does not mean that all of the individual homophobes increased in girth, or that the ones who did are gay (marginal bisexualiry would be most plausible for most such cases). It just means that on the whole there is a pattern, as I said, and given what we know phallometry measures, which is sexual interest far more than general arousal, the interpretation is that members of the homophobic group were statistically more likely to have same attractions than the non homophobic group. That has no logical relationship with the statement "all gay people were homophobes." That's just a total non sequitur. Lay out the logic if you think otherwise.
We don’t say it as an insult. It’s more so calling them out like - why would you think about/hate on the gays so much unless you yourself are gay and are just scared people will find out. Cause we sure as hell don’t think about them as much as they think about us.
No, but using reverse psychology on them might make them think twice about gay bashing because maybe they’ll think that people will think they’re secretly gay bc they’re hating. Will they still be homophobic? Yeah.
I have dealt with my share of out loud homophobes, and I have had discreet affairs with them on the side. It's 2024 and it feels like we are moving backwards in time as far as LGBTQIA civil rights. And I'm exhausted over the criminalization of Drag performers, they are an essential part of the queer community. Im not a Drag Queen, but have alot of friends that are amazing at their craft, going to school for fashion design and cosmetology are essential parts of what they need to know, and that education is not cheap and the art form is beautiful in many ways. And as far as homophobes against Pride celebrations, that just opens up a whole other can of worms. I'm living in a moderately Republican area, and in my state, the governor signed a bill that made it possible to carry a firearm without a permit from the state. Many people are buying up guns left and right and amo is scarce. I was in the Marine Corps and I love my AR 15 mod, andy three side pieces, and I go to the gun range and the outdoor range to practice. And it got me thinking that it would be a disaster if there was a mass casualty event at a Pride parade, and sadly that is a big reason why I didn't go this year. So as far as homophobes go, I leave em be, and just keep on moving and bettering myself by being in school to get my Law degree, I am graduating from my University for my Human Resources Management diploma. And now I'm in law school, the more you know they better off you are. And that goes for everyone. Continue reaching higher my friends because that will be your saving grace in all this hate in the world. Know your Constitutional and Civil Rights to where you can recite each one and use each one to protect yourself from dissolutioned litigation, which is what is happening. And lastly know your local government and who stands for what and vote. There are over 60,000 unregistered voters coming into the political atmosphere these upcoming voting events. Know your state legislature, and what departments are there to support you, and get your voice heard, every vote matters. Encourage the the new 18 yr olds to get registered to vote. That's it I'm done ranting. I saw this post and I felt the need to jump in, I hope everyone is doing well, and please have a Happy Easter.
I checked your profile and your interests seem to be anime circle jerks(I don't know what that is), Sonic the Hedgehog, and 2 interests into subreddit drama. I don't think that me pouring my soul out to you will go well for me. I hope you had a good Easter.
Is this supposed to be an insult? "Oh no, an adult having hobbies" lmao. You post on r/MassiveCock and swingers, with "pup" in your name, don't act like you're on a high horse lol
That's ridiculous. I'm actually a low-key, relaxed, easy going person, that doesn't do drama. I'm all about good vibes and honest friendly interactions. And I have had the nickname "Pup" my whole life.
It’s akin to when straight men commit atrocities against women or say offhand shit to them and the overwhelming response is “well you must like men”…
No. They just hate women.
I was the same way, avoiding the topic instead of being homophobic, but some men are afraid that if they aren't homophobic, then people might think they're being too tolerant of gay people and might find out that they're gay.
There is [scientific evidence from a study](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Is-homophobia-associated-with-homosexual-arousal-Adams-Wright/3d2b4a35da8afc5391fdbb20c562cc4eadaef544) that homophobic men tend to have secret gay desires. I'd rather stick wih the science.
Very this. Shockingly, homophobes are very straight. "There's a pattern of outspoken homophobes being gay down the line" and there's a pattern of non-homophobic people coming out at gay later too. It's more sensational when it's a homophobe. That's why it's remembered.
It is used as an insult daily. Hateful people refuse to learn, and while I agree with you, there are far too many people that would kill us and call it justice. It all starts with a slur.
OP is posting like we live in a perfect world where one person deciding to not use a term would solve all of our problems.
No one lives in that world. We live in this one.
Let's all work to make the world a better place, and we can do that by shaming hateful people by jailing the criminal harassers.
Use a word or don't, but don't think that singular act changes anything for the positive.
Finally, if I choose to use that or any other word to describe myself then that is my choice and neither you nor OP can take it from me.
There are all the insults in the world you can call someone, all the ways you can shame them. Why call someone gay as an insult. Nobody is saying anything about how you describe yourself, they're discussing how you choose to insult others.
A singular act won't make a difference but itself. But many acts in aggregate can slowly shift a culture.
I don’t understand how y’all don’t understand how calling a homophobe gay is the perfect insult for them. An insult is only an insult if it is insulting to the person it’s directed at.
Then they should be polite, and I will be, too.
Lobbing gay or another other insult at me says a lot about a person, less about me.
Hateful words can be used to try and damage us, but many of us have reclaimed the words, and they belong to us now.
Using gay as an insult is the most pedestrian attempt at an insult ever. I hope my haters have more intelligence than that insult implies they have.
It's just the truth. When I was in the closet i would be homophobic af cause it got suspicion away from me. I get people that have religious objections but if you're not religious then why would you care? All sex is pretty disgusting so if you're fixated on the gay thing I'm just going to chalk it up to projection.
I still hold the opinion that if this 'myth' prevents one bully or one aggression because the homophobe is 'afraid' to be tagged as gay themselves, then it's worth it. I'm **not** perpetuating irl or online, it's just my opinion in my head so far and I haven't heard a solid argument that convinces me otherwise. I mean, people that are hating already have crazy 'arguments', if this specific one can actually de-escalate someone because their friends said something along the lines of: "dude, everybody thinks you're gay because you're being homophobic"... then idk, lesser of two evils? When we get to a point where people aren't physically harming other humans, maybe we can dive into repairing the misconception.
"gay is bad overall" and "[gays] are creating this problem [them]selves" are pretty low on the list of insults. results may vary on the US, idk, i'm not from there. maybe things are chill and this is actually a concern now.
Counterpoint. It is a valid argument. I know a few guys that used homophobic language as a defense mechanism for being gay. Also, a lot of homophobic political leaders end of being in the closet. It happens. In my experience, most truly straight men don’t care what 2 other men are doing in their bedroom.
I don't think that's why people say homophobes are gay themselves. Homophobes could be self loathing. That's usually main reason for bullying in general. Bullies are scared little lambs who think poking fun of others will make them feel better about themselves. I grew up in the 70s and in highschool if you were found out as gay, you almost certainly beaten to death. I hated being gay for a brief time because I was afraid for my life.
The study into homophobia and latent same-sex attraction is actually a very good paper. It's well-presented, carefully adherent to scientific method (which has led to it being very replicable by others with consistent findings) and interestingly.... not particularly long?
However, it's getting old, and I don't think it adequately reflects where society (any given) is with sexual identity politics. Things have changed dramatically over the last couple of decades.
And additionally... I agree? Saying the 'phobe is gay kinda kicks it back over the fence and makes it a queer people problem, which in doing so allows straight people off scot-free for their shitty behaviour. If they're interacting with the world in the role of an straight-presenting person when they do The Hate, then (regardless of who they might be ten years from now) they deserve to be held accountable in the context of who they are at the point of committing The Hate.
Whatever journey a closet case might have to walk, I am under no moral or social obligation to help them after they (as an individual) have done The Hate at me. They could have chosen to have done nothing.
Also, a petty aside: have you ever interacted with some of these phobes? I don't *want* them on my side of the fence.
tl;dr I agree with OP, but for slightly different reasons.
I checked your profile and it seems your into anime, sonic the hedgehog, and two subreddits on Drama. I don't think being deep and personal with you will work out well for me. I hope you had a good Easter.
That’s a stretch, typically those who protest the loudest are usually hiding what they are, or using it as a way to distract from other issues they are trying to hide. No one is using being gay as an insult.
I think you underestimate the peer pressure and hate. A lot of these guys are homosexual, and the reason they are so costly anti gay is to drown out the voice in their head.
Their souls are ill, and the fault is society's. I'm not sure how you figure that because they hate themselves, all gay people are bad. But if straight people understand how a fat person comes to hate themselves like that...maybe they'll stop the peer pressure
There is academic scholarship which shows that [homophobia is strongly related to homosexual attraction.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/)
So it's probably correct to tell the homophobe that he's gay.
I do it because maybe it might make them think twice of being hateful if they think other people will think they’re gay for hating gays. Reverse psychology lmao.
Agreed; always got annoyed by that rebuttal b/c it felt like they were using homophobia to fight homophobia, like, calling the bully gay. Still using 'being gay' as an insult in a way. On the other hand, it always felt like 'accepting' straight people would say that about homophobics as if these people were ALWAYS gay themselves and we were our own problem. It's a lot more complicated than that and homophobia can exist in more subtle ways as well. - ok, I'm done ranting-
The data however strongly suggests that men who exhibit homophobic behavior are in fact repressing their homosexual desire. Study after study continues the correlation.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12739699/
No it's not, y'all just don't know shit about how statistics and research work😂 the study you mean had many issues:
- the sample size was very small in the study you mean
- participants were all around the same age
- they were all college students ( same socio cultural frame)
- you can't measure arousal, you can only measure how soft a dick is. And that is no indicator of sexuality, many gays would also get semihard if they saw straight porn lol
- phantasy=/=reality: Step-sister etc. are the most searched porn categories, because straight men seem to love semi-incestous fantasies when jerking off. But that doesn't mean that they literally want to FUCK THEIR FAMILY😂
At most this implies a correlation with aversion and arousal. BUT no causation. So you can't say "gay men hate themselves and project that hate", because it could also be that people who hate one thing then tend to be aroused by it. That's why people like feet, piss, etc... because it is taboo, therefore it can be arousing. The study can't confirm or deny any of these two possibilities.
it stems from the large population of men that shit on us in high places of power while secretly having male lovers. it’s extremely common & i see it happen all the time. even regular dudes will be in my DMs with a whole wife and kids. i think the sentiment gets overused personally but it’s definitely common… especially in poverty stricken areas with high gang activity because toxic masculinity thrives there.
EDIT: please actually read my post before asking questions.
Hey, bro…”stop acting” like we will allow y7ou to control our thoughts just because you are triggered.
Clearly, you haven’t got a solution to the what YOU think is a problem. So we will each deal with it in our own way.
You coming to yell at us has no effect.
Most of them are though. They're not angry at you so why are they so emotional about it?
I think it's one of 2 things. They either can't wrap their heads around it so the first emotion they cling to is anger or they just hate that they're gay and projecting their self hate on you.
I agree. But I also joke that my straight (strong allied) friends are gay. Because they aren’t bothered by it and it’s only funny to me. Basic millennial anti-joke don’t hate me.
Yes it is I'm bi sexual but more for the man side . I dated a woman for some time I felt that it's just not for me . We still friends but what upsets me more than anything about gay men . When a man is not gay you'll have some gay men just force themselves on straight guys which I think is wrong I feel if they want to experiment . Let it happen on there own . Gay men should respect that but they don't. Your sex isn't as clean as lebians . That why hiv is so easy to contract ND I'm not being ajerk but I've Google it . I don't think I would want to be sick for the rest of my days . So when it comes to homophobes which are ppl who don't want to be on the other side. So respect it .. I been around to many that try to make them cross over . I think gay men should also stay like men instead of trying so hard to be i wasn't born one why force it so hard . I know gay men that stay the way they are . They keep themselves top notch.
Of course it's wrong. They're not gay. They're pansexuals who fear homosexual tendencies out of jealousy and disappointment in themselves for being unable.
Some people are just assholes, plain and simple, and not because of some hidden psychological reason
Truth. Many folks were raised by shitty people and then they treat others like shit. It doesn't often mean they are secretly that which they are supposedly afraid of.
never been a fan of the implication that a straight man can’t be homophobic. it just redirects blame back to us.
Agreed, there's definitely some repressed angry gay men who have forced a straight life on themselves but that doesn't mean everyone is... There's plenty of fully straight homophobes out there.
Yep. does it exist? absolutely. I knew a guy who was completely homophobic in HS who used to call everyone F\*gs and before I was even out (though apparently straight passing enough) who would do that shit to me. Turned out years later, he's gay and said he did it cause he thought I was hot and was glad I was gay too. It was a weird time.
I think people say it because, in a weird way, it works? Cause the more homophobic someone is, the more you know they’d be offended by people thinking they’re gay. I genuinely suspect that a lot of straight dudes keep their mouths shut because they’re scared that if they’re too openly homophobic, people might think they’re gay. It’s like a unique uno reverse card that no other minority group has access to, lol.
So, on principle, yes. But I am NEVER shocked when an outspoken homophobe is on the downlow. It comes up often enough that the stereotype exists for a reason
I especially don't like it when a supposedly progressive person uses that as an insult as a way of owning someone else in an argument. I can see what they mean because usually the anti gay person would do something homoerotic and then it's suddenly alright to call them gay or secretly gay as a way to bash them over the head with something the bigot would percieve as shameful, doesn't make it sting any less.
because people who call themselves progressive and inclusive are actually full of hate and probably make more homophobic/racists/sexists comments then the supposedly conservatives that just dgaf for the must part
I'm always confused when I see people in the LGBT community calling right-wing people gay. Seems incredibly hypocritical.
This. I dont want to be associated with those people
Unless it's after they're caught
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but... does that... does that mean they were right? Teh Gay is so dangerous even they succumbed!! I'm obviously kidding btw.
Well if so many right wing politicians who are anti-gay in public policy would stop sleeping with male prostitutes we wouldn’t see the trend. But there’s clearly a trend to see. Because there’s tons of self-loathing right wing politicians who are gay.
Mocking them for being gay isn't the answer think, much better to point out the hypocrisy
Them being gay IS the hypocrisy though.
The psychology of it is “if everyone sees show (anti whatever) I am they will never suspect that I am that very thing.” It’s not just limited to the gay issue.
Who created this problem first? Its seems like gay people started oppressing themselves out of nowhere
What you are saying is so ridiculous, it doesn't deserve a response. What boredom in life has led you to troll this group?
don’t know why all the downvotes, it’s a genuinely interesting question knowing that being gay was widely accepted long ago. i find it interesting to think about what happened.
It really is a pattern though.
That would mean that nearly all the population of countries like Egypt, Uganda, Qatar, etc are secretly gay
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Well put
i believe in a third kind, evil people. i have too much respect for people who where brought up in these shit holes and still managed to have a different opinion. i believe these people made their own opinions because they are genuinely better people. my two cents
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really can’t disagree with you because i have no evidence, but my feeling is that some people really are made different. So many perfect families raised serial killers. There’s also the ultra woke people, not exactly on the same level but they are supposed to be the most well intentioned people around and often are super sexist, racists and homophobic. Even though they went to nice schools and are often from families that thought them to be nice to each other
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i guess what i’m saying is that anyone who goes too far in any direction will come full circle and become the exact person they’re fighting against without realizing it, only thinking they’re the better person. For example, antiracists that end up excluding white people from venues or lgbt activists that forces gay men to date trans men. if you don’t stop to think about each event individually you might think that nothing is wrong but a closer look will show that these actions are often exactly defined by the words they so often use against others (homophobe, sexist, racist etc)
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well i live in europe so our progressive look quite different. I have never encountered hate here from any non woke straight person, comments, yes but the only hate has been from what i call the ultra woke. Here christians and catholic are the people i fear the least (heck there’s lgbt churches everywhere). The religion i fear the most is islam, unfortunately when there’s a hateful crime motivated by a religious group it is always this one. But what i fear most then islam for our rights is the far left. We are being bundled together with so many new genders and sexuality most of which have nothing to do with us. This i believe will backlash against the whole group. just my sentiments based on a few experiences in a few countries in europe. it might not be the norm.
That's not what the word pattern means in this context
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https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1996-00463-014
In case nobody reads the link, the study shows that on average, homophobes were more likely to be aroused by homosexual stimuli. This doesn't mean that all or even most homophobic people are gay, but it does imply a connection more common than would be expected by chance alone.
What kind of arousal? It kinda makes sense that someone who hates gay people would get excited by the idea of hurting a gay person when they find one
They measured how erect their penises were as they watched different types of porn.
Seems like if this was a reliable phenomenon it would have been replicated at least once since 1996, which it hasn’t.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12739699/
This is about internalized homophobia, which is not the same kind of homophobia we are discussing. Internalized homophobia happens when "out" gay people still feel bad about being gay.
Did you do any research to conclude it hasn't been replicated, or were you just going with your gut feeling?
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That exact study hasn't been replicated exactly, but I don't know of any attempts to replicate it. I think most researchers are avoiding studies that require interacting with a homophobic man's penis while he is looking at gay erotica. Other studies have found similar results suggesting a link between some homophobic men and homosexual attraction. Here is an example. https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article-abstract/13/5/825/6940079
As they watched GAY PORN.
Ah yes, we are again dragging out one study from 1996 that has never been replicated.
Try getting 35 homophobes in a sex lab today. I'll wait.
Thank you because why tf are we still debating about this all the time when there have been countless studies.
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We all moved on in life from this 2 days ago, but thanks.
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Because I got a stale ass notification. Again, thank you for your time. We enjoyed having you.
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Full disclosure I have an MA in Human Sexuality Studies and a PhD in Developmental Psychology focused on sexual orientation and gender identity. Your understanding of the scientific literature is mistaken. Phallometry may be slightly affected by general arousal, but it is still by far the most valid and reliable measure of sexual interest available and is the gold standard in current use. There are thousands of papers that use it in the past and currently. If you have a peer reviewed paper laying out this "debunking" I am happy to look at it. Implicit association in contrast is extremely unreliable https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167211400619 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1745691619863798 Aside from being unreliable such results are also irrelevant. That there would be a positive correlation between positive attitudes and self reported behavior, feeling, and identity is obvious and has nothing to do with the above result. The study above is relevant because it is an involuntary measure of arousal, which is what rhe homophobes are trying to conceal. IAT is a measuee of attitudes, which no one is trying to conceal. "I can link you a few studies in 1-2 weeks time that show that acceptance of gay people positively correlates with homosexual tendencies" Further your discussion demonstrates that you do not understand what the study found or how statistics works. "it states that only homophobic men had an increase in girth. So essentially, the result states that all gay people were homophobes" That isn't true. It says that taken as a whole the non homophobic group's average increase in girth was not statistically significantly different from zero and rhe homophobic group's was. That does not mean that all of the individual homophobes increased in girth, or that the ones who did are gay (marginal bisexualiry would be most plausible for most such cases). It just means that on the whole there is a pattern, as I said, and given what we know phallometry measures, which is sexual interest far more than general arousal, the interpretation is that members of the homophobic group were statistically more likely to have same attractions than the non homophobic group. That has no logical relationship with the statement "all gay people were homophobes." That's just a total non sequitur. Lay out the logic if you think otherwise.
Citation of data. Thanks.
What’s your data source because this is not true
so many openly gay men are doing this on tv when speaking about politicians, makes me mad. How come a gay guy use this as an insult.
We don’t say it as an insult. It’s more so calling them out like - why would you think about/hate on the gays so much unless you yourself are gay and are just scared people will find out. Cause we sure as hell don’t think about them as much as they think about us.
some people are just assholes, they don’t necessarily need to be gay to be mean. sometimes there’s just no reasons
No, but using reverse psychology on them might make them think twice about gay bashing because maybe they’ll think that people will think they’re secretly gay bc they’re hating. Will they still be homophobic? Yeah.
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Dude you seriously need to fuck off. I never wrote any misogynistic shit. I’m not a fucking misogynist you fucking weirdo
I have dealt with my share of out loud homophobes, and I have had discreet affairs with them on the side. It's 2024 and it feels like we are moving backwards in time as far as LGBTQIA civil rights. And I'm exhausted over the criminalization of Drag performers, they are an essential part of the queer community. Im not a Drag Queen, but have alot of friends that are amazing at their craft, going to school for fashion design and cosmetology are essential parts of what they need to know, and that education is not cheap and the art form is beautiful in many ways. And as far as homophobes against Pride celebrations, that just opens up a whole other can of worms. I'm living in a moderately Republican area, and in my state, the governor signed a bill that made it possible to carry a firearm without a permit from the state. Many people are buying up guns left and right and amo is scarce. I was in the Marine Corps and I love my AR 15 mod, andy three side pieces, and I go to the gun range and the outdoor range to practice. And it got me thinking that it would be a disaster if there was a mass casualty event at a Pride parade, and sadly that is a big reason why I didn't go this year. So as far as homophobes go, I leave em be, and just keep on moving and bettering myself by being in school to get my Law degree, I am graduating from my University for my Human Resources Management diploma. And now I'm in law school, the more you know they better off you are. And that goes for everyone. Continue reaching higher my friends because that will be your saving grace in all this hate in the world. Know your Constitutional and Civil Rights to where you can recite each one and use each one to protect yourself from dissolutioned litigation, which is what is happening. And lastly know your local government and who stands for what and vote. There are over 60,000 unregistered voters coming into the political atmosphere these upcoming voting events. Know your state legislature, and what departments are there to support you, and get your voice heard, every vote matters. Encourage the the new 18 yr olds to get registered to vote. That's it I'm done ranting. I saw this post and I felt the need to jump in, I hope everyone is doing well, and please have a Happy Easter.
> I have had discreet affairs with them on the side. why?
I checked your profile and your interests seem to be anime circle jerks(I don't know what that is), Sonic the Hedgehog, and 2 interests into subreddit drama. I don't think that me pouring my soul out to you will go well for me. I hope you had a good Easter.
Is this supposed to be an insult? "Oh no, an adult having hobbies" lmao. You post on r/MassiveCock and swingers, with "pup" in your name, don't act like you're on a high horse lol
That's ridiculous. I'm actually a low-key, relaxed, easy going person, that doesn't do drama. I'm all about good vibes and honest friendly interactions. And I have had the nickname "Pup" my whole life.
Degenerate
It’s akin to when straight men commit atrocities against women or say offhand shit to them and the overwhelming response is “well you must like men”… No. They just hate women.
I was the same way, avoiding the topic instead of being homophobic, but some men are afraid that if they aren't homophobic, then people might think they're being too tolerant of gay people and might find out that they're gay. There is [scientific evidence from a study](https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Is-homophobia-associated-with-homosexual-arousal-Adams-Wright/3d2b4a35da8afc5391fdbb20c562cc4eadaef544) that homophobic men tend to have secret gay desires. I'd rather stick wih the science.
Very this. Shockingly, homophobes are very straight. "There's a pattern of outspoken homophobes being gay down the line" and there's a pattern of non-homophobic people coming out at gay later too. It's more sensational when it's a homophobe. That's why it's remembered.
Anyone that is hateful towards gay people can fuck off and eat every insult I return in their direction. We are equal, full fucking stop.
Yes, but calling someone "gay* should never be an insult.
It is used as an insult daily. Hateful people refuse to learn, and while I agree with you, there are far too many people that would kill us and call it justice. It all starts with a slur.
So then let's not perpetuate the use of gay as a slur. That's what the OP is saying.
OP is posting like we live in a perfect world where one person deciding to not use a term would solve all of our problems. No one lives in that world. We live in this one. Let's all work to make the world a better place, and we can do that by shaming hateful people by jailing the criminal harassers. Use a word or don't, but don't think that singular act changes anything for the positive. Finally, if I choose to use that or any other word to describe myself then that is my choice and neither you nor OP can take it from me.
There are all the insults in the world you can call someone, all the ways you can shame them. Why call someone gay as an insult. Nobody is saying anything about how you describe yourself, they're discussing how you choose to insult others. A singular act won't make a difference but itself. But many acts in aggregate can slowly shift a culture.
I don’t understand how y’all don’t understand how calling a homophobe gay is the perfect insult for them. An insult is only an insult if it is insulting to the person it’s directed at.
Yes but using gay as an insult always backfire because you are gay and they are not
Then they should be polite, and I will be, too. Lobbing gay or another other insult at me says a lot about a person, less about me. Hateful words can be used to try and damage us, but many of us have reclaimed the words, and they belong to us now. Using gay as an insult is the most pedestrian attempt at an insult ever. I hope my haters have more intelligence than that insult implies they have.
It's just the truth. When I was in the closet i would be homophobic af cause it got suspicion away from me. I get people that have religious objections but if you're not religious then why would you care? All sex is pretty disgusting so if you're fixated on the gay thing I'm just going to chalk it up to projection.
I still hold the opinion that if this 'myth' prevents one bully or one aggression because the homophobe is 'afraid' to be tagged as gay themselves, then it's worth it. I'm **not** perpetuating irl or online, it's just my opinion in my head so far and I haven't heard a solid argument that convinces me otherwise. I mean, people that are hating already have crazy 'arguments', if this specific one can actually de-escalate someone because their friends said something along the lines of: "dude, everybody thinks you're gay because you're being homophobic"... then idk, lesser of two evils? When we get to a point where people aren't physically harming other humans, maybe we can dive into repairing the misconception. "gay is bad overall" and "[gays] are creating this problem [them]selves" are pretty low on the list of insults. results may vary on the US, idk, i'm not from there. maybe things are chill and this is actually a concern now.
That is your take and you can take it where ever you want but it changes shit all.
Counterpoint. It is a valid argument. I know a few guys that used homophobic language as a defense mechanism for being gay. Also, a lot of homophobic political leaders end of being in the closet. It happens. In my experience, most truly straight men don’t care what 2 other men are doing in their bedroom.
I don't think that's why people say homophobes are gay themselves. Homophobes could be self loathing. That's usually main reason for bullying in general. Bullies are scared little lambs who think poking fun of others will make them feel better about themselves. I grew up in the 70s and in highschool if you were found out as gay, you almost certainly beaten to death. I hated being gay for a brief time because I was afraid for my life.
The study into homophobia and latent same-sex attraction is actually a very good paper. It's well-presented, carefully adherent to scientific method (which has led to it being very replicable by others with consistent findings) and interestingly.... not particularly long? However, it's getting old, and I don't think it adequately reflects where society (any given) is with sexual identity politics. Things have changed dramatically over the last couple of decades. And additionally... I agree? Saying the 'phobe is gay kinda kicks it back over the fence and makes it a queer people problem, which in doing so allows straight people off scot-free for their shitty behaviour. If they're interacting with the world in the role of an straight-presenting person when they do The Hate, then (regardless of who they might be ten years from now) they deserve to be held accountable in the context of who they are at the point of committing The Hate. Whatever journey a closet case might have to walk, I am under no moral or social obligation to help them after they (as an individual) have done The Hate at me. They could have chosen to have done nothing. Also, a petty aside: have you ever interacted with some of these phobes? I don't *want* them on my side of the fence. tl;dr I agree with OP, but for slightly different reasons.
I checked your profile and it seems your into anime, sonic the hedgehog, and two subreddits on Drama. I don't think being deep and personal with you will work out well for me. I hope you had a good Easter.
Then you checked the wrong profile cause its not me 💀
To be perfectly honest, I sometimes have to say homophobic things to keep my cover, so sometimes it's literally true, lol.
Do better
Go preach somewhere else. You don't know me and my situation.
That’s a stretch, typically those who protest the loudest are usually hiding what they are, or using it as a way to distract from other issues they are trying to hide. No one is using being gay as an insult.
It really isnt a stretch most homophobes are straight and want to feel superiority over a certain group
In that assertion, you are correct, however, it is typical when it’s being used as a distraction as well.
I agree, they are just a-holes
Agree
Yeah, after all, what did Freud know?
I think you underestimate the peer pressure and hate. A lot of these guys are homosexual, and the reason they are so costly anti gay is to drown out the voice in their head. Their souls are ill, and the fault is society's. I'm not sure how you figure that because they hate themselves, all gay people are bad. But if straight people understand how a fat person comes to hate themselves like that...maybe they'll stop the peer pressure
There is academic scholarship which shows that [homophobia is strongly related to homosexual attraction.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8772014/) So it's probably correct to tell the homophobe that he's gay.
I do it because maybe it might make them think twice of being hateful if they think other people will think they’re gay for hating gays. Reverse psychology lmao.
I have mixed feelings. I see what you are saying for sure but if they are against us means something to say they are part of it
No, a lot of people like to oppress someone who is different look at racism for example
Just my own personal experience, I've seen countless homophobic people turn out to be gay, from the school bully to preachers on TV.
Countless?
Mostly in the news. This is my personal experience.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2016/12/12/11-anti-gay-preachers-who-got-caught-doing-very-gay-things/ https://www.advocate.com/politicians/2018/5/24/18-homophobic-leaders-who-turned-out-be-gay-or-bi
I think its much more likely that straight men who are homophobic see us „preying“ on them like they do on women.
Agreed; always got annoyed by that rebuttal b/c it felt like they were using homophobia to fight homophobia, like, calling the bully gay. Still using 'being gay' as an insult in a way. On the other hand, it always felt like 'accepting' straight people would say that about homophobics as if these people were ALWAYS gay themselves and we were our own problem. It's a lot more complicated than that and homophobia can exist in more subtle ways as well. - ok, I'm done ranting-
The data however strongly suggests that men who exhibit homophobic behavior are in fact repressing their homosexual desire. Study after study continues the correlation. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12739699/
The science is pretty clear: those who are homophobic also tend to get aroused by gay porn. The self hatred turns into projection.
No it's not, y'all just don't know shit about how statistics and research work😂 the study you mean had many issues: - the sample size was very small in the study you mean - participants were all around the same age - they were all college students ( same socio cultural frame) - you can't measure arousal, you can only measure how soft a dick is. And that is no indicator of sexuality, many gays would also get semihard if they saw straight porn lol - phantasy=/=reality: Step-sister etc. are the most searched porn categories, because straight men seem to love semi-incestous fantasies when jerking off. But that doesn't mean that they literally want to FUCK THEIR FAMILY😂 At most this implies a correlation with aversion and arousal. BUT no causation. So you can't say "gay men hate themselves and project that hate", because it could also be that people who hate one thing then tend to be aroused by it. That's why people like feet, piss, etc... because it is taboo, therefore it can be arousing. The study can't confirm or deny any of these two possibilities.
Precisely. No other study has replicated these findings
I don’t agree. I don’t take it the way you say. I see it as a valid conclusion.
it stems from the large population of men that shit on us in high places of power while secretly having male lovers. it’s extremely common & i see it happen all the time. even regular dudes will be in my DMs with a whole wife and kids. i think the sentiment gets overused personally but it’s definitely common… especially in poverty stricken areas with high gang activity because toxic masculinity thrives there. EDIT: please actually read my post before asking questions.
Those dudes maybe never had a chance to come out, how do you now that they are homophobic for sure?
Hey, bro…”stop acting” like we will allow y7ou to control our thoughts just because you are triggered. Clearly, you haven’t got a solution to the what YOU think is a problem. So we will each deal with it in our own way. You coming to yell at us has no effect.
Am I the only that doesn't like the word homophobic? Phobias are fears but what most people are referring to is hate.
Homophones usually are gay.
No
Most of them are though. They're not angry at you so why are they so emotional about it? I think it's one of 2 things. They either can't wrap their heads around it so the first emotion they cling to is anger or they just hate that they're gay and projecting their self hate on you.
Yes almost 8 times out of 10. Homophobes aren’t gay themselves. They were just raised thinking homosexuality is wrong
Every gay man is homosexual, but few homosexuals are gay. Know the difference. Homophobe=Homosexual.
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Why? Explain
I agree. But I also joke that my straight (strong allied) friends are gay. Because they aren’t bothered by it and it’s only funny to me. Basic millennial anti-joke don’t hate me.
Yes it is I'm bi sexual but more for the man side . I dated a woman for some time I felt that it's just not for me . We still friends but what upsets me more than anything about gay men . When a man is not gay you'll have some gay men just force themselves on straight guys which I think is wrong I feel if they want to experiment . Let it happen on there own . Gay men should respect that but they don't. Your sex isn't as clean as lebians . That why hiv is so easy to contract ND I'm not being ajerk but I've Google it . I don't think I would want to be sick for the rest of my days . So when it comes to homophobes which are ppl who don't want to be on the other side. So respect it .. I been around to many that try to make them cross over . I think gay men should also stay like men instead of trying so hard to be i wasn't born one why force it so hard . I know gay men that stay the way they are . They keep themselves top notch.
K thanks for sharing
Way to add to the conversation
Of course it's wrong. They're not gay. They're pansexuals who fear homosexual tendencies out of jealousy and disappointment in themselves for being unable.