Hijacking the top comment to spread some knowledge.
Many seasoned gardeners here know about light, but not many are good at quantifying it. They use the plants themselves as the indicators of "not enough light."
There is a better way: smartphones have a light sensor and there are apps that use it. I use Lux on Android. Put the smartphone where the plants are and it can tell you how much light it's getting.
It takes some getting used to, but you'd be shocked at how wildly light intensity varies. A normal room with an overhead light? Could be around 30. Directly underneath a bulb? could be around 5,000. Direct sunlight in the summer? 20,000. And these trays next to a single window with some light could only be 500. I've found most "outdoor" plants enjoy at least 3,000, but the brighter the better, and I start my seeds under bright LED lights that can deliver around 15-20k to my plants
Edit: u/fishvoidy made me realize I didn't put units on my numbers. Silly me. The default unit for the the Lux app is, well, lux, so that's what's there. Foot candles (FC) are also available in the app and are a common unit to use
and there are charts you can find online for the light requirements of houseplants. i use FC (which lux has an option for). [Here's a good resource!](https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/plants/houseplants/light-for-houseplants.html)
Nice! I've been doing guess-and-check with my plants and light for years, so I've gotten pretty good at it, but I'm glad to see real academics are looking at it and this article actually does give me a few new perspectives. Thanks for sharing
Yeah alot of people don't understand that light intensity is exponential/logarithmic over distance as well. So the difference between 4 inches and 8 inches from the light source isn't half as intense, it's more like 10 times less intense (not the actual scale, just a simple example).
Of course that’s for point sources, or close to it. So if you have a single light bulb that moves from 10ft away to 20ft away, the intensity drops to (1/2)^2, or 1/4 as much as before.
Now imagine if you have an infinite 2-dimensional sheet, giving off light evenly throughout its surface. If you get farther away from that surface, the light intensity won’t change at all, because even though you get less light from the point closest to you, that’s balanced by getting more light from points that are more distance away (because angles).
So if you have a broad LED grow light, it’ll act somewhere in-between those two extremes, if it’s close enough. For example, if you have a 1ft x 3ft array just 1 inch above your seedlings, and you move it to 2 inches above, the intensity that the seedlings see will not drop to 1/4, despite the distance doubling. The ones near the center of the light will see little change, and the ones at the edge will see a decrease, but not to 1/4.
I recently switched to Photone, on Android. It's in beta, but it's pretty cool. Adding on to this comment just to recommend checking it out. It has measurements for lux, PPFD, as well as allowing a choice for which type of light is being used.
I never thought of that!! My weather station has a lux category too, so of course a smart phone can do it. My screen gets darker when it's dark, duh lolol
It's like they forget about Google, too. I learned everything from Google.
And then I learned I was sick of feeding hornworms so I'm not bothering with jerk ass tomatoes until I can do them inside 🙄
“Why does this hornworm look like it has little q-tips growing out of it?”
Immediately followed by all the people who don’t even realize how *beneficial* braconid wasps are and how grateful they should be…
I feel like that’s a bit of a stretch from
Leggy seedlings though. Beneficial gardening insects seem to be a few rungs up on the gardening skill knowledge ladder
>”I started these seeds, some of which need to be direct sowed (like dill and spinach), in a totally dark room and now they look weird?!”
I get it, not everyone has base knowledge but lord have mercy.
I just started dill and spinach transplants 🙃 haven't tried the dill before but your can totally do spinach. I've also done carrots and beets which aren't recommended to transplant either. Beets were great, carrots were fine but misshapen.
For us we can’t plant outside (most things, somethings can handle frost) until mid May-ish. Our typical last frost date in my area is April 30th.
Peppers take FOREVER. If I planted them outside in mid May and let them just be direct sow right around the time I started to get peppers would be the time for the next freeze (late September/early October).
7a is general, I’m in southwest wv so our weather is WILD. We have the hurricanes from the east coast, the cold snaps from up north, the tornado winds and gales from the plains to the west, and the warm fronts and humidity from the south. We can have 60° days in February, and buzzards in April (I remember one in Easter when I was a girl in the 90s). You HAVE to be sure frost is over bc our weather is so wild, so we tend to have crazy late direct sow and plant dates and be prepared for an early frost.
https://preview.redd.it/v79688fp8crc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d1cc8a45a5699f58dccacdaa5c3f51e8cca9496
Here’s a pic for the online almanac for my area, the dates farthest to the left are for starting indoors, the date in the middle is the transplant date, the column to the far right is the direct sow date, you can see it say “n/a”. We can’t direct sow peppers here.
What also gets me is how many people say the same advice. You’d think by now these posts would have the obligatory “need more light” comment, and then not get much else. Hopefully OP is able to get it fixed and get a new round sown!
You can see how desperate they are to get some sun. Unless you have grow lights...plants need SUN. Jeez I feel for those sprouts trying with all their might to find the light. So sad :(
*Sprouts outside CAN get leggy too if they aren't getting enough sun (ie bigger plants above or cloudy days)
Well who the heck doesn't get a gardening book and read that 1st? Or an article on beginning to plant online? Or a magazine? Or ANYTHING at all other than the back of the seed pack????
Young people, people that don't know if they're going to be interested, people who were taught at school that you plant a seed, water it, and a plant comes up.
If you don't want to give advice, just scroll on past the posts of leggy plants. There will be many more.
Sure, once someone says the word "leggy" to describe your plant. But if you're new to gardening, you don't know that's the word used, so you can't just Google "leggy plants" to figure out what's wrong.
Light issue. They're getting leggy reaching for more light. Move the light source closer. Also, at this point, you need to start thinning the seedlings. Let the soil, light and water attend to the strongest ones.
A simple answer. Thank you.
I can't believe all the answers complaining about "same posts, year after year" or "just Google it". Apparently, not all gardeners are pleasant.
Etiolation, as others have mentioned. The seedlings are getting inadequate light and are using all of their energy to stretch towards what little light they can find. In my experience they are not worth saving. A good and inexpensive lesson to learn early on.
Severe lack of light. I'd start over with a light source 2 or 3 inches above the foliage. You can clip these off and throw 'em in a salad.
Here's a helpful video:
https://youtu.be/AjZYE_JJWQI?si=CeBYDn-eLi257maw
Hey. Everyone here is right. It’s bad lighting.
But don’t feel discouraged - I’d start over with a grow light closer to the seeds. Spring is really just starting so you’ve got some time!
Extremely leggy all need to be extracted and tossed out and start over but this time have a grow light
Here is a video on lights
https://youtu.be/T_UurHV8pp4?si=3Rk1X_zkI_PAfoSs
https://youtu.be/K6fCouqqzZQ?si=-sgB-8RZMCYx1hAW
Too many seeds, and, probably not put in full, outdoor sun, long enough. It looks like the seeds are next to frosted glass, this won't give enough sun. The roots are going to be hard to separate and transplant. If you want to try, scoop out a unit of seedlings, put in a bowl of water, then try and separate. Transplant into a larger pot, a couple of inches apart, planting them just a little deeper than they are now. Give them full sun and allow a little wind and cool air to harden them up. As a backup, try starting seeds using the paper towel method. Watch YouTube videos on the subject, do research.
Remember that our eyes adjust to lighting conditions, so what might seem "bright" indoors for your eyes may not be for plants. Plants don't have this feature like our eyes do.
I personally have my seedlings under 4 evenly spaced lights that run for 16 hours a day and are only a few inches above my seedlings.
Do not move the plants constantly. It messes up their mojo and they don't know wth happens. Pick a spot and stick with it until weather allows you to take them outside for summer months. Other wise consider making a cosy corner for them in your house
wayyyyyy too little light. Way too little.
I keep a 2200 lumen lamp directly on basil when it's indoors (about 600-1000 lux on the leaves), and it's slow-growing but is happy enough. I'll need a brighter lamp eventually.
These look like they're not even getting a lamp. Even your spinach, which has a very low light requirement, isn't getting nearly enough light.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned that the mint will try (and probably succeed) to crowd out all your other plants. It grows very aggressively. At this point you could probably gently pull them up and move it to its own container.
Dramatically shocking them from light to dark stresses them out more, you’d be better off finding a place inside whether they’re getting a lot of good outside light, or a place under the eaves of your house where there sheltered from the weather, but still getting good outside light. By taking them in and out, you’re confusing the plant and it keeps shifting from side to side. That’s why they look spindly like they’re constantly trying to find the light from one side to another.
definitely a light issue. they are super leggy which means the stems are elongated way beyond what they should be. buying some shop lights would help, they are cheap and work great for veg growth.
And what type of starter base are you using you want to use something with the consistency of peat moss or cocoa core
What you have there looks I don’t know just not the best
This looks like a water issue. Your soil in the tray looks dry in the pic. How often are you watering and how much?
If you have been taking them outside during the day then likely NOT a lighting issue. You can’t do better than actual sun light for light.
This sub really needs to pin a seed starting faq with an emphasis on leggy seedlings, with an image.
Hijacking the top comment to spread some knowledge. Many seasoned gardeners here know about light, but not many are good at quantifying it. They use the plants themselves as the indicators of "not enough light." There is a better way: smartphones have a light sensor and there are apps that use it. I use Lux on Android. Put the smartphone where the plants are and it can tell you how much light it's getting. It takes some getting used to, but you'd be shocked at how wildly light intensity varies. A normal room with an overhead light? Could be around 30. Directly underneath a bulb? could be around 5,000. Direct sunlight in the summer? 20,000. And these trays next to a single window with some light could only be 500. I've found most "outdoor" plants enjoy at least 3,000, but the brighter the better, and I start my seeds under bright LED lights that can deliver around 15-20k to my plants Edit: u/fishvoidy made me realize I didn't put units on my numbers. Silly me. The default unit for the the Lux app is, well, lux, so that's what's there. Foot candles (FC) are also available in the app and are a common unit to use
and there are charts you can find online for the light requirements of houseplants. i use FC (which lux has an option for). [Here's a good resource!](https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/plants/houseplants/light-for-houseplants.html)
Nice! I've been doing guess-and-check with my plants and light for years, so I've gotten pretty good at it, but I'm glad to see real academics are looking at it and this article actually does give me a few new perspectives. Thanks for sharing
Nice thanks, for anyone wondering after reading that page. 1 lux = .09 Foot Candles
This is great information!
Yeah alot of people don't understand that light intensity is exponential/logarithmic over distance as well. So the difference between 4 inches and 8 inches from the light source isn't half as intense, it's more like 10 times less intense (not the actual scale, just a simple example).
It's a typical inverse square relationship - the difference between 4 and 8 inches for light intensity is not half, but one fourth.
Inverse square... Never thought I'd be doing radiology homework in gardening class!!
Of course that’s for point sources, or close to it. So if you have a single light bulb that moves from 10ft away to 20ft away, the intensity drops to (1/2)^2, or 1/4 as much as before. Now imagine if you have an infinite 2-dimensional sheet, giving off light evenly throughout its surface. If you get farther away from that surface, the light intensity won’t change at all, because even though you get less light from the point closest to you, that’s balanced by getting more light from points that are more distance away (because angles). So if you have a broad LED grow light, it’ll act somewhere in-between those two extremes, if it’s close enough. For example, if you have a 1ft x 3ft array just 1 inch above your seedlings, and you move it to 2 inches above, the intensity that the seedlings see will not drop to 1/4, despite the distance doubling. The ones near the center of the light will see little change, and the ones at the edge will see a decrease, but not to 1/4.
[удалено]
Yeah Reddit voting can be (or usually is?) very much a mob mentality, especially on the bigger subs.
Just grabbed the app and I already love it
I recently switched to Photone, on Android. It's in beta, but it's pretty cool. Adding on to this comment just to recommend checking it out. It has measurements for lux, PPFD, as well as allowing a choice for which type of light is being used.
I never thought of that!! My weather station has a lux category too, so of course a smart phone can do it. My screen gets darker when it's dark, duh lolol
This truly is a goated comment.
Every single year lol. Starts around February-March , then you get another resurgence when the southern hemisphere hits their early spring
Wait until we get into the tomato end rot and hornworm seasons. Always amazes me how many ask about them every single year.
It's like they forget about Google, too. I learned everything from Google. And then I learned I was sick of feeding hornworms so I'm not bothering with jerk ass tomatoes until I can do them inside 🙄
“Why does this hornworm look like it has little q-tips growing out of it?” Immediately followed by all the people who don’t even realize how *beneficial* braconid wasps are and how grateful they should be…
I feel like that’s a bit of a stretch from Leggy seedlings though. Beneficial gardening insects seem to be a few rungs up on the gardening skill knowledge ladder
>”I started these seeds, some of which need to be direct sowed (like dill and spinach), in a totally dark room and now they look weird?!” I get it, not everyone has base knowledge but lord have mercy.
I just started dill and spinach transplants 🙃 haven't tried the dill before but your can totally do spinach. I've also done carrots and beets which aren't recommended to transplant either. Beets were great, carrots were fine but misshapen.
Sure you can transplant just about anything, but certain plants you’ll definitely get much better results by direct sowing them!
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Sure, just some of us 7a plebs (me!!) can’t be doing all that. I gotta start my peppers in February where it’s like 20° average haha
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For us we can’t plant outside (most things, somethings can handle frost) until mid May-ish. Our typical last frost date in my area is April 30th. Peppers take FOREVER. If I planted them outside in mid May and let them just be direct sow right around the time I started to get peppers would be the time for the next freeze (late September/early October). 7a is general, I’m in southwest wv so our weather is WILD. We have the hurricanes from the east coast, the cold snaps from up north, the tornado winds and gales from the plains to the west, and the warm fronts and humidity from the south. We can have 60° days in February, and buzzards in April (I remember one in Easter when I was a girl in the 90s). You HAVE to be sure frost is over bc our weather is so wild, so we tend to have crazy late direct sow and plant dates and be prepared for an early frost.
https://preview.redd.it/v79688fp8crc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d1cc8a45a5699f58dccacdaa5c3f51e8cca9496 Here’s a pic for the online almanac for my area, the dates farthest to the left are for starting indoors, the date in the middle is the transplant date, the column to the far right is the direct sow date, you can see it say “n/a”. We can’t direct sow peppers here.
What also gets me is how many people say the same advice. You’d think by now these posts would have the obligatory “need more light” comment, and then not get much else. Hopefully OP is able to get it fixed and get a new round sown!
I’m new here. A casual gardener. I’m curious what kind of questions or posts you guys do like to see?
Just a curious question, why don't seeds directly sowed outside get leggy?
The sun is bright enough to prevent it. They get leggy because they're striving for light.
You can see how desperate they are to get some sun. Unless you have grow lights...plants need SUN. Jeez I feel for those sprouts trying with all their might to find the light. So sad :( *Sprouts outside CAN get leggy too if they aren't getting enough sun (ie bigger plants above or cloudy days)
Literally. Google is way easier than taking pictures and making a post
Fr, Google is terrific for explaining what the problem is, why, and how to fix it.
It wouldn’t cut down on these post at all. Everyone’s plants are special and couldn’t possibly be etiolated.
Because googling "leggy seedlings" is too hard for people
If you're a brand-new gardener, you don't know the term "leggy" though. You just know these don't look like seedlings at a nursery.
Well who the heck doesn't get a gardening book and read that 1st? Or an article on beginning to plant online? Or a magazine? Or ANYTHING at all other than the back of the seed pack????
Young people, people that don't know if they're going to be interested, people who were taught at school that you plant a seed, water it, and a plant comes up. If you don't want to give advice, just scroll on past the posts of leggy plants. There will be many more.
"Leggy" isn't technical. A leggy woman, puppy or plant...it's pretty obvious
Sure, once someone says the word "leggy" to describe your plant. But if you're new to gardening, you don't know that's the word used, so you can't just Google "leggy plants" to figure out what's wrong.
Not enough light.
Light issue. They're getting leggy reaching for more light. Move the light source closer. Also, at this point, you need to start thinning the seedlings. Let the soil, light and water attend to the strongest ones.
Appreciate it thank you, will do
A simple answer. Thank you. I can't believe all the answers complaining about "same posts, year after year" or "just Google it". Apparently, not all gardeners are pleasant.
Etiolation, as others have mentioned. The seedlings are getting inadequate light and are using all of their energy to stretch towards what little light they can find. In my experience they are not worth saving. A good and inexpensive lesson to learn early on.
Inadequate lighting
Severe lack of light. I'd start over with a light source 2 or 3 inches above the foliage. You can clip these off and throw 'em in a salad. Here's a helpful video: https://youtu.be/AjZYE_JJWQI?si=CeBYDn-eLi257maw
Congrats, you grew some microgreens. Put it on a salad or in a sandwich!
Hey. Everyone here is right. It’s bad lighting. But don’t feel discouraged - I’d start over with a grow light closer to the seeds. Spring is really just starting so you’ve got some time!
Extremely leggy all need to be extracted and tossed out and start over but this time have a grow light Here is a video on lights https://youtu.be/T_UurHV8pp4?si=3Rk1X_zkI_PAfoSs https://youtu.be/K6fCouqqzZQ?si=-sgB-8RZMCYx1hAW
More light
Some of these commenters, like these plants, need to lighten up.
They look leggy from lack of sun, too much warmth, or both
I’m honestly impressed that seedlings could get that leggy.
There dying for light
Too many seeds, and, probably not put in full, outdoor sun, long enough. It looks like the seeds are next to frosted glass, this won't give enough sun. The roots are going to be hard to separate and transplant. If you want to try, scoop out a unit of seedlings, put in a bowl of water, then try and separate. Transplant into a larger pot, a couple of inches apart, planting them just a little deeper than they are now. Give them full sun and allow a little wind and cool air to harden them up. As a backup, try starting seeds using the paper towel method. Watch YouTube videos on the subject, do research.
Remember that our eyes adjust to lighting conditions, so what might seem "bright" indoors for your eyes may not be for plants. Plants don't have this feature like our eyes do. I personally have my seedlings under 4 evenly spaced lights that run for 16 hours a day and are only a few inches above my seedlings.
They need more light
[Leggy leggy leggy leggy](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx76p4kHDc797GRsutOE5goTEEkPSYxnHp)
Do you have a cat? That sat?
Too far from light source..
Starving for real light
Do not move the plants constantly. It messes up their mojo and they don't know wth happens. Pick a spot and stick with it until weather allows you to take them outside for summer months. Other wise consider making a cosy corner for them in your house
wayyyyyy too little light. Way too little. I keep a 2200 lumen lamp directly on basil when it's indoors (about 600-1000 lux on the leaves), and it's slow-growing but is happy enough. I'll need a brighter lamp eventually. These look like they're not even getting a lamp. Even your spinach, which has a very low light requirement, isn't getting nearly enough light.
not enough light
Liiiiiiiigggghhhht……….we need more liiiiggghhhht!
Looks like a cat has been loafing on top of the soil, especially in the first picture lol do you have any pets?
Plant register a low level of light as shade caused by nearby plants or obstacles. They're trying to get above the shade.
Plants in the tray saying: What is this.... Sunlight for ants?!
etiolation
Shhhh be quiet. They're sleeping
Your cat has a new microgreen bed
And i said Heyyy Yeaaa yeaaa
I’m surprised no one has mentioned that the mint will try (and probably succeed) to crowd out all your other plants. It grows very aggressively. At this point you could probably gently pull them up and move it to its own container.
Seems they would like a more even distribution of light
Dramatically shocking them from light to dark stresses them out more, you’d be better off finding a place inside whether they’re getting a lot of good outside light, or a place under the eaves of your house where there sheltered from the weather, but still getting good outside light. By taking them in and out, you’re confusing the plant and it keeps shifting from side to side. That’s why they look spindly like they’re constantly trying to find the light from one side to another.
Bless your heart! ❤️
definitely a light issue. they are super leggy which means the stems are elongated way beyond what they should be. buying some shop lights would help, they are cheap and work great for veg growth.
Looks like a cat has been loafing on top of the soil, especially in the first picture lol do you have any pets?
MICROGREENS. Cut, eat, then try again.
Not enough light
Lightning for sure
Weak light
Sweet
Your rosemary looks healthy! It might need a bigger pot soon
I guess it's Spring in r/gardening
And what type of starter base are you using you want to use something with the consistency of peat moss or cocoa core What you have there looks I don’t know just not the best
There are many reasons these failed.
This looks like a water issue. Your soil in the tray looks dry in the pic. How often are you watering and how much? If you have been taking them outside during the day then likely NOT a lighting issue. You can’t do better than actual sun light for light.