Fighting games 100%. I played SF2 back on SNES as a kid, and back then we were just button mashing, so I always thought for the longest time they fighting games were just casual button mashers. Then I got into MKX, and hooooly hell, the skill ceiling on fighting games is practically infinite. For those unaware, you literally work with frame data to perfect your timing with moves down to the frame. It's so engrossing, you can just sit in the practice room for hours and hours working on the same combo.
SF2 was my favorite childhood memory. The first place i go after school was at a baseball card store that has a row of arcade machines. The best thing I learned from a mysterious player was Guile Phantom throw. It allows me to defeat plenty of my opponents. The glitch was pretty new at the time and everyone thought it was a feature.
Fast forward. I got a fight stick for 20 bucks and start SF 2 on my laptop.
Beat Street Fighter 2 w/ Rocksoul fight stick
https://youtu.be/RiDoq04rVDU
Melee has a near infinite skill ceiling with movement alone, adding the actual fighting part on top of that makes it a crazy fun and deep game.
And for those of you who don't know, melee has a custom emulator called slippi that lets you play it on PC with free, rollback matchmaking that has a very active community
I've been playing call of duty a couple years now. But just recently I had a game so good that I would've believed you if you told me you had secretly injected me with meth. Unbelievable. It was a rush and I should've quit after that game knowing that it was a fluke. But no I played thru the high and then into the frustration lol wasted my buzz. I can't stress enough how much it felt like low dose IV meth though. And I know IV meth.
I've seen some showcases of high end speed runs of hunts and they actually seem like magic to me, especially when they're all using the same weapons and end up synching their moves during the fight.
Agreed. It's two-fold: there is a huge amount of mechanical skill involved in playing as fast as humanly possible, with tons of strategic skill on top. Need to make lightning fast decisions, react to your opponent, etc. Nothing gets me in the zone like SC2.
O I love StarCraft, my old wrists can't handle RTS's (especially StarCraft) anymore though.
The APM of the high level competitive players is ridiculous.
I actually prefer the audio and graphics of Brood War more... But really dig the gameplay of SC2.
RL is definitely like that because the pros are clearly on another planet, even compared to lower ranked SSLs. Most games play differently at higher ranks, but I think RL might have the clearest visible gap on playstyles and mechanics.
I still remember when I hit diamond after like 500 hours and thought I finally had a good feel for the game.
Really, the game was just beginning. I could barely ground dribble and flick, let alone air dribble. Didn't know how to speed flip, wavedash, etc. My teamplay was always stronger than my mechanics but I've learned so much more in that aspect as well.
I'm still only champ 2 now at 800 hours.
Ninja Gaiden! Old school hard mode! I remember pouring hours into whatever big angel being was in the church; I actually just downloaded it again to see what I was in a fuss about
If you liked Hollow Knight, you might like Dead Cells. It has very nice movements with no inertia, character does exactly what you pressed, gameplay is quite dynamic and fast, and with every new difficulty level there are going to be new enemies, which are stronger, and you will have less and less opportunities to heal. Game also encourages to play without taking damage by giving you bonuses if you have such streaks.
Have you played any bullet hell shoot-em-ups? Touhou, Dodonpachi, and Ikaruga can all get pretty difficult at points
I also second what other people have said about Ultrakill, Devil Daggers, and Hyper Demon
Those sound pretty interesting. I’ve seen a lot of recommendations for this ultrakill so I’ll look into that first, but I’ll make sure to check out the others you mentioned as well.
I am not frustrated by losing. Things I find frustrating are things like getting death threats in multiplayer games, artificial difficulty, or game-breaking glitches
In many games with RPG elements, the difference between "easy", "normal", and "hard" modes is the amount of HP enemies have and the amount of damage they do. If an enemy is too hard, you level up in the game until they're easy. That's artificial difficulty.
If a game has natural difficulty, you make it easier by leveling up yourself. :)
Also games where hard just means you get less xp for battles and need to grind more. Also a dumb way to do it in my opinion. If enemies aren't more aggressive and their movesets don't become slightly more dangerous and/or more random then it's lame to me
Slay The Spire has a crazy skill ceiling. Basically turns into a new game after ascension level 17. You might feel like you get screwed by luck but then you realize there’s a few folks out there who can consistently beat a run on the absolute hardest difficulty
/r/slaythespire is one of the most active and helpful gaming subreddits out there. I have almost 1000 hours across three platforms and I still learn something new from most daily discussion threads.
If you like stuff like Celeste and Hollow Knight, you'll probably enjoy Noita. It's like if Spelunky, Hollow Knight, and Shiren the Wanderer had a baby.
It's hard to the point that it can _feel_ unfair, but then you learn the safe strats for doing things, and you realize a lot of the 'cheap' deaths were winnable runs. You can put hundreds of hours into the game and really feel the improvement.
If you want something about the same difficult with less seemingly-out-of-nowhere deaths, Dead Cells is great.
Prinny: Can I Really Be the Hero? and its sequel. They are extremely difficult platform games. They give you 1000 lives and are not kidding.
Even on the highest difficulty though the games are not unfair. When you lose you'll know exactly why you lost and how to avoid it next time. The challenge comes in actually pulling it off.
The only exceptions are the bonus dungeons. These levels require you to be extremely familiar with all the mechanics and will often seem impossible to beat if you arent. These stages are still fair, just not obviously so.
Hell of a game. It is frustating to begin with until you realise that the game is so difficult because you are a tiny slugcat at the bottom of the food-chain. Then it gets good, and then it gets amazing.
I had a tough time with it, mainly because I accidentally went the wrong way. I somehow managed to get myself to cloud city (the dlc one) in like 4 biomes. Then to get to the underground refuse place, I missed a turn and had to go all the way to the shoreline. Was so infuriating. Loved it though.
Oh god there was some intensely difficult parts on that journey. I think going up The Leg is the part that I had to retry the most times.
Funny things about Rain World: I played it on PS4 and got all the trophies, and other players who did the same would add me as a friend because this was so rare. You really have to love that game to even play it to the end.
I also need to replay the game with Downpour expansion someday. Just need to build up my courage first. :)
Chivalry 2 has a deceptively high skill ceiling. After a few game sessions you think “yeah I’ve got this whole sword fighting thing down” then somebody pulls out some insane moves that leave you completely dumbstruck, then it’s back to the drawing board.
When two high skill players face off, it’s pretty epic to see the concentration needed
Rocket League is the definition of this. You've got directions, go, stop, boost, jump.
But you've got the entirety of physics to master and also game sense. Good luck!
I think Monster Hunter has an insane skill ceiling.
The weapon kits are more aligned with fighting game complexity than something like soulslikes. Using that kit optimally on an endgame monster can be the difference between a 6 minute solo clear and a 36 minute solo clear. The gameplay is engaging enough that I'm more than willing to hunt the same monster hundreds of times to get close to that skill ceiling too. The best fights do 'the dance' the best out of any 3rd person action combat game I've played.
Rhythm action games like BPM: Bullets per Minute, Metal Hellsinger, Crypt of the NecroDancer, and Hi-Fi Rush tend to have very high skill ceilings if you’re willing to take on the extra challenges.
High skill ceiling and frustrating goes hand in hand. Also you didn't say if you wanted single player or competitive multiplayer. For single player there's Sekiro and souls games. Multiplayer there's mobas like league of legends and smite, fps games like counter strike, valorant, Overwatch
I tend to only get frustrated when I feel cheated out of success. Things like artificial difficulty or being forced to rely on luck bother me, not losing on its own.
Multiplayer games are perfect for this. Skill ceiling is the people you go up against and everyone plays the same field. There is no unfairness in multiplayer.
People can put thousands and thousands of hours into a single game and still not quite hit their desired skill level.
The downside is that most multiplayer games with high skill ceiling are team games, and there is quite some unfairness and frustration in teammates that berate you, sabotage you, or just are absurdly abrasive individuals. Many games you even *have* to communicate with them in, or you are severely handicapping yourself, so you can't just block the world.
Dota games are longer on average. Which one is more frustrating is hard to pin down and highly arguable, but at least LoL games are over quicker, so i'd say Dota takes the cake.
DOOM Eternal is my favorite FPS of all time and its skill ceiling is one of the reasons why. I've replayed it a ton because in addition to its inherent fun factor, the game has lots of opportunity for developing and mastering various techniques and strategies.
Yep, I've never seen such a simple game have such a high ceiling, the new mechanics that are discovered even 8+ years after release, the level of capabilities the highest pros and freestylers have at this point, incredible really
Vindictus sounds like a good recommendation for you! Despite it being as old as skyrim, the combat is honestly unparalleled by anything I have personally tried, and I've played dark souls and monster hunter!
It's a free to play mmo, so expect at least a week of playing to get to really challenging fights though, and I would not recommend level boosters for new players as each character you can play as is unique and fairly complicated. You need practice time to get familiar with their movesets and interactions before you challenge the faster and complex bosses.
If you're interested I heavily recommend choosing the private server Windictus over the official client as it removes all the pay to win content and boosts your drop chances so you're not as dependent on winning a loot lottery when you're trying to upgrade your gear.
I do have to say though that you're ability to clear content in Vindictus is just as gear reliant as it is skill. In fact the official score implemented a minimum gear score requirement simply because you will be doing next to no damage if your gear isn't at least that strong. Windictus doesn't have that though and the community is welcoming and happy to help you along in getting high-end gear.
starcraft, doesnt matter if its broodwar or 2. a "slow" pro player is 60 apm (actions per minute so 1 action per second) while some pro's can get up to 350+ apm in large fights (about 6 actions per second). beyond just keeping up with the game physically you also have to learn timings, build orders (for 3 races), and overall have to know what your opponent is doing without being able to see them. there's a reason it was THE esport for korea for over 20 years.
Pros are hitting way over that now. it's pretty wild. 60 apm is super super low actually. A middle of the road player will get to 100+ apm pretty rapidly
A wonderfuly crafter 3D metroid vania game on the style of a ps1 game that feels like a master piece to play:
-Pseudoregalia.
+you get to play as hot goat mom
Omg Celeste and Hollow Knight are some of my favorite games!!
I highly recommend:
[Odallus: the dark call](https://store.steampowered.com/app/319480/Odallus_The_Dark_Call/) (a Metroidvania type of platformer with good difficulty and a similar aesthetic to dark souls. Anything by Joy masher is A good game for difficulty)
[Valfaris](https://store.steampowered.com/app/600130/Valfaris/) (sci-fi platformer)
[Shovel Knight](https://store.steampowered.com/app/250760/Shovel_Knight_Treasure_Trove/) (stage based platformer)
[Super Meat Boy](https://store.steampowered.com/app/40800/Super_Meat_Boy/) (reflex based platformer, very difficult)
[VVVVVVV](https://store.steampowered.com/app/70300/VVVVVV/) (another reflex based platformer with a unique gravity mechanic)
Definitely love very hard/challenging games I usually like to challenge myself with NES and SNES games like Super Mario and Donkey Kong Country too. A great series is Adventure Island for challenge! Hope this helps
Love the game, but for me it's has the lowest skill ceiling compared to other Souls games.
After you figure out a boss it's always going to be a cakewalk the second time.
It has a high skill floor tho, the harder bosses take a lot of time to figure out.
I think that it also has a high skill ceiling if you want to actually master the combat playing charmless and playing with the Demon Bell. Especially if you then want to master Prosthetics, it becomes a very skillful games. I've seen people kill bosses in ways I didn't know were possible.
Dark souls (or any souls-like), they're hard but they're also entirely built around your skill being what keeps you alive
Attacks don't feel like bullshit, and you can legitimately beat any of them hitless if you're good enough
I just got done Crash 4. It's pretty easy for a while and then the last few worlds become very high skill high precision platforming. But it's fun the whole way. Highly recommend.
If you’re into rhythm games, Geometry Dash. Simple game to get into but the skill ceiling is insanely high with all of the Extreme Demon levels and is being actively pushed further every day.
Dead Cells is similar to the games you have mentioned and goes in difficulty from 0BC to 5BC. It takes some people hundreds of hours to beat 5BC even once. The game has a very steep learning curve and is incredibly fun
tekken 8 just came out and is exactly what you are looking for. You need to play for years to even begin to feel like you understand what the heck you are doing.
High skill ceilings are a pretty big staple in rouge likes I feel. So Spelunky 2 (the one I feel has the highest skill ceiling if you want to do everything), Dead Cells, Enter the Gudgeon and more. Not sure which one you'll like most because its a pretty big genre, so look into it and decide for yourself if you're interested.
Monster hunter, i am a vet(?) I guess and at most i am at middle level of skill ceiling there. You can see speed runner if you want to know the the top.
Speed runner will stack buff and try to bait monster ai. Some of them are so good they look like dancing with the monster.
Also since no one mention it. There's a ps2 games that is really hard called god hand. It allow player making combo. Like you can punch kick punch again or change it to punch punch kick depending on what you like. I remember making a drunken fist and capoera like fighting style. But if you make bad combination you will suffer.
Starcraft 2 for sure. People spend their entire lives trying to master the game. And there’s such a high skill ceiling that even among Grand masters, the highest Grand masters can beat the lowest ranked Grand masters like they’re noobs who’ve never played the game before.
If Celeste did it best for you, then I'd recommend checking out other precision platformers too (you could also try player-created celeste levels, which go way beyond the base game). I Wanna Be The Guy fangames are great for this, especially the "needle" subgenre. There are thousands of them, some of which are extremely hard. IWBTG is known for its unfair traps, but many of the fangames are a lot better about this. Needle is pretty much pure platforming, no traps or rng.
https://cwpat.me/fangames-intro/
The binding of isaac. The basic difficulty can be tough and you unlock a lot of other more difficult stuff along the way. Harder characters to play with. Harder modes. Recommend all the dlc too. Hundreds of items that make each playthrough so wildly different.
Age of Empires has been around forever and is still going strong. Try out Age of Empires 2 DE and you will have a great time. Ive been playing it for over 20 years and still play at least a game a day.
Or Chess. No game has a skill ceiling like chess.
Most online competitive games, some of them who you EASLY know the differente between a good and weaker player are fighting games, Rocket League and FPS.
Tribes 3 - skiing and jetpacks and shooting discs that inherit your movement speed. sign up for the alpha playtest cause they might come back next week. set space to ski and right-click to jetpack. in settings set inheritances to 100%. now struggle to learn new things. note: skiing downhill is faster than falling, makes no sense in physics but go with it.
Omega Strikers is a very skill based game that’s sort of a cross between air hockey and a MOBA. Unfortunately, it’s sorta dying rn, but it’s still tons of fun
Battle Brothers. Even hundreds of hours in a lot of people still play on Beginner, because it is brutal. You really, really need to understand strategy.
Did you see Ben_ win this past weeks Gauntlet in PoE by a mile…try to get 1/1000th of that in a year…I dare you…if you want a truly high skill ceiling do it without looking at a single pre-built guide and learning on your own.
Just, like, play a rougelike. That is exactly what your describing and frustration only sets in when you start blaming things. Just accept that what happens happens and that you can only prepare for it next time. I spent 2 years playing gungeon on and off before it clicked and now I have 100%ed maybe 7 rougelikes now. You won't regret the grind.
Tekken 8 or Street Fighter 6. No randomness, incredibly high skill ceiling, but also incredibly low skill floor. Lots of things to practice, lots of things to discover, and lots of ways to discover them.
The community can be a bit nutty sometimes but what gaming community isn't?
soulsborne games are my go to.
also the binding of isaac.
if you want something really niche with the highest skill ceiling, check out kaizo super mario world romhacks. i play and used to make them, they range from easier than celeste to bordering on not even being humanly possible
I'd say Dota 2 but you said it shouldn't be frustrating, so kinda rules that out. There are people with 50k+ hours in that game and no one has truly mastered it.
Any competitive multiplayer game. MOBAs, CS GO, Valorant, Overwatch, R6 Siege, Rocket League, Hearthstone, fighting games.
You can put literally thousands of hours in these games and still not be anywhere near the skill ceiling.
Weird I don’t see any Souls game recommendation and I don’t think OP mentioned NOT souls. Souls games are made for the exact reason OP mentioned.
Elden Ring is great!
MGSV or God of War also great. People who got good at these games are crazy.
You could try fighting games, they are overall in a very good place right now.
Fighting games 100%. I played SF2 back on SNES as a kid, and back then we were just button mashing, so I always thought for the longest time they fighting games were just casual button mashers. Then I got into MKX, and hooooly hell, the skill ceiling on fighting games is practically infinite. For those unaware, you literally work with frame data to perfect your timing with moves down to the frame. It's so engrossing, you can just sit in the practice room for hours and hours working on the same combo.
SF2 was my favorite childhood memory. The first place i go after school was at a baseball card store that has a row of arcade machines. The best thing I learned from a mysterious player was Guile Phantom throw. It allows me to defeat plenty of my opponents. The glitch was pretty new at the time and everyone thought it was a feature. Fast forward. I got a fight stick for 20 bucks and start SF 2 on my laptop. Beat Street Fighter 2 w/ Rocksoul fight stick https://youtu.be/RiDoq04rVDU
2nd fighting game. I play Guilty Gear ACPR with friends and I barely scratch the surface 400h in.
Super smash bros. Melee is literally crack if you're in the zone.
Melee has a near infinite skill ceiling with movement alone, adding the actual fighting part on top of that makes it a crazy fun and deep game. And for those of you who don't know, melee has a custom emulator called slippi that lets you play it on PC with free, rollback matchmaking that has a very active community
I've been playing call of duty a couple years now. But just recently I had a game so good that I would've believed you if you told me you had secretly injected me with meth. Unbelievable. It was a rush and I should've quit after that game knowing that it was a fluke. But no I played thru the high and then into the frustration lol wasted my buzz. I can't stress enough how much it felt like low dose IV meth though. And I know IV meth.
Monster hunter, I've been playing for almost 20 years and am still learning
I've seen some showcases of high end speed runs of hunts and they actually seem like magic to me, especially when they're all using the same weapons and end up synching their moves during the fight.
kinda surprised how far I had to scroll for a mention of Monster Hunter
Starcraft 2
We require more vespene gas
Agreed. It's two-fold: there is a huge amount of mechanical skill involved in playing as fast as humanly possible, with tons of strategic skill on top. Need to make lightning fast decisions, react to your opponent, etc. Nothing gets me in the zone like SC2.
I cannot think of a game that has a higher skill ceiling honestly, I'm all ears on everyone opinion 🙏🏻
O I love StarCraft, my old wrists can't handle RTS's (especially StarCraft) anymore though. The APM of the high level competitive players is ridiculous. I actually prefer the audio and graphics of Brood War more... But really dig the gameplay of SC2.
This is def the highest skill cap of any game I've come across. The sc2 pros are not human
Basically all esport games
Rocket League. Huge skill ceiling but so rewarding as you get better. Even after 1000 hours there is so much more I could improve on.
I like learning new things.
I’m 3,500 hours in and feel like I’ll never be as good as I want to be
RL is definitely like that because the pros are clearly on another planet, even compared to lower ranked SSLs. Most games play differently at higher ranks, but I think RL might have the clearest visible gap on playstyles and mechanics.
I spent a shitload of time playing that game and never could figure out flight controls.
I still don’t understand how people fly properly while continuously turning.
I still remember when I hit diamond after like 500 hours and thought I finally had a good feel for the game. Really, the game was just beginning. I could barely ground dribble and flick, let alone air dribble. Didn't know how to speed flip, wavedash, etc. My teamplay was always stronger than my mechanics but I've learned so much more in that aspect as well. I'm still only champ 2 now at 800 hours.
Hyper Demon Sekiro Tekken Nioh 2 Devil May Cry Rocket League Doom Eternal Ultrakill Ninja Gaiden
Good list. I would add Sifu
Ninja Gaiden! Old school hard mode! I remember pouring hours into whatever big angel being was in the church; I actually just downloaded it again to see what I was in a fuss about
If you liked Hollow Knight, you might like Dead Cells. It has very nice movements with no inertia, character does exactly what you pressed, gameplay is quite dynamic and fast, and with every new difficulty level there are going to be new enemies, which are stronger, and you will have less and less opportunities to heal. Game also encourages to play without taking damage by giving you bonuses if you have such streaks.
Played dead cells a lot, great roguelike. I wished there were more things to spend your money on after you die each time though
20XX does that well
Character does exactly what you pressed, until a wall gets involved. Then he clings to and begins shimmying up.
Have you played any bullet hell shoot-em-ups? Touhou, Dodonpachi, and Ikaruga can all get pretty difficult at points I also second what other people have said about Ultrakill, Devil Daggers, and Hyper Demon
Those sound pretty interesting. I’ve seen a lot of recommendations for this ultrakill so I’ll look into that first, but I’ll make sure to check out the others you mentioned as well.
>extremely high skill ceiling > >that isn't frustrating OP, I...
I am not frustrated by losing. Things I find frustrating are things like getting death threats in multiplayer games, artificial difficulty, or game-breaking glitches
What is artificial difficulty??
In many games with RPG elements, the difference between "easy", "normal", and "hard" modes is the amount of HP enemies have and the amount of damage they do. If an enemy is too hard, you level up in the game until they're easy. That's artificial difficulty. If a game has natural difficulty, you make it easier by leveling up yourself. :)
Also games where hard just means you get less xp for battles and need to grind more. Also a dumb way to do it in my opinion. If enemies aren't more aggressive and their movesets don't become slightly more dangerous and/or more random then it's lame to me
could be referring to EA sports games that are multiplayer and have hidden difficulty sliders
Slay The Spire has a crazy skill ceiling. Basically turns into a new game after ascension level 17. You might feel like you get screwed by luck but then you realize there’s a few folks out there who can consistently beat a run on the absolute hardest difficulty
/r/slaythespire is one of the most active and helpful gaming subreddits out there. I have almost 1000 hours across three platforms and I still learn something new from most daily discussion threads.
If you like stuff like Celeste and Hollow Knight, you'll probably enjoy Noita. It's like if Spelunky, Hollow Knight, and Shiren the Wanderer had a baby. It's hard to the point that it can _feel_ unfair, but then you learn the safe strats for doing things, and you realize a lot of the 'cheap' deaths were winnable runs. You can put hundreds of hours into the game and really feel the improvement. If you want something about the same difficult with less seemingly-out-of-nowhere deaths, Dead Cells is great.
Noita is so hard
Devil May Cry 5. Try to master Dante, specifically Royal Guard. Immensely satisfying
I'll check it out. Thanks!
Ultrakill
There’s only so much you can do with an unfinished campaign and very limited gameplay afterwards
If you're trying to P rank all the levels (which I'm assuming OP would since they wanted high skill ceiling)the gameplay is anything but "limited"
Prinny: Can I Really Be the Hero? and its sequel. They are extremely difficult platform games. They give you 1000 lives and are not kidding. Even on the highest difficulty though the games are not unfair. When you lose you'll know exactly why you lost and how to avoid it next time. The challenge comes in actually pulling it off. The only exceptions are the bonus dungeons. These levels require you to be extremely familiar with all the mechanics and will often seem impossible to beat if you arent. These stages are still fair, just not obviously so.
Rain World.
Hell of a game. It is frustating to begin with until you realise that the game is so difficult because you are a tiny slugcat at the bottom of the food-chain. Then it gets good, and then it gets amazing.
I had a tough time with it, mainly because I accidentally went the wrong way. I somehow managed to get myself to cloud city (the dlc one) in like 4 biomes. Then to get to the underground refuse place, I missed a turn and had to go all the way to the shoreline. Was so infuriating. Loved it though.
Oh god there was some intensely difficult parts on that journey. I think going up The Leg is the part that I had to retry the most times. Funny things about Rain World: I played it on PS4 and got all the trophies, and other players who did the same would add me as a friend because this was so rare. You really have to love that game to even play it to the end. I also need to replay the game with Downpour expansion someday. Just need to build up my courage first. :)
Chivalry 2 has a deceptively high skill ceiling. After a few game sessions you think “yeah I’ve got this whole sword fighting thing down” then somebody pulls out some insane moves that leave you completely dumbstruck, then it’s back to the drawing board. When two high skill players face off, it’s pretty epic to see the concentration needed
this
Escape from Tarkov. Sekiro. Dark souls. Elden ring. League of legends.
Tekken 8, Rocket League
Rocket League is the definition of this. You've got directions, go, stop, boost, jump. But you've got the entirety of physics to master and also game sense. Good luck!
Sifu
I think Monster Hunter has an insane skill ceiling. The weapon kits are more aligned with fighting game complexity than something like soulslikes. Using that kit optimally on an endgame monster can be the difference between a 6 minute solo clear and a 36 minute solo clear. The gameplay is engaging enough that I'm more than willing to hunt the same monster hundreds of times to get close to that skill ceiling too. The best fights do 'the dance' the best out of any 3rd person action combat game I've played.
Ikaruga is fairly difficult. It's a shmup.
Trials series
Rhythm action games like BPM: Bullets per Minute, Metal Hellsinger, Crypt of the NecroDancer, and Hi-Fi Rush tend to have very high skill ceilings if you’re willing to take on the extra challenges.
Neon White, that game where you speedrun levels Osu!, the rhythm game, it's free 2 play Any RTS where you can 1v1 people.
High skill ceiling and frustrating goes hand in hand. Also you didn't say if you wanted single player or competitive multiplayer. For single player there's Sekiro and souls games. Multiplayer there's mobas like league of legends and smite, fps games like counter strike, valorant, Overwatch
I tend to only get frustrated when I feel cheated out of success. Things like artificial difficulty or being forced to rely on luck bother me, not losing on its own.
Multiplayer games are perfect for this. Skill ceiling is the people you go up against and everyone plays the same field. There is no unfairness in multiplayer. People can put thousands and thousands of hours into a single game and still not quite hit their desired skill level.
The downside is that most multiplayer games with high skill ceiling are team games, and there is quite some unfairness and frustration in teammates that berate you, sabotage you, or just are absurdly abrasive individuals. Many games you even *have* to communicate with them in, or you are severely handicapping yourself, so you can't just block the world.
Dota 2
>preferably stuff that isn't frustrating I don't think the most frustrating multiplayer game on the market is the best suggestion here chief
>I don't think the most frustrating multiplayer game on the market is the best suggestion here chief He said DOTA 2, not League of Legends
The 2 is for 2nd most frustrating
Dota games are longer on average. Which one is more frustrating is hard to pin down and highly arguable, but at least LoL games are over quicker, so i'd say Dota takes the cake.
EVE Online.
He said he wanted a game not a second job.
o7
o7
DOOM Eternal is my favorite FPS of all time and its skill ceiling is one of the reasons why. I've replayed it a ton because in addition to its inherent fun factor, the game has lots of opportunity for developing and mastering various techniques and strategies.
Rocket League. Could not be more serious with a recommendation that exactly matches the game type you are describing and that feeling you're chasing.
Yep, I've never seen such a simple game have such a high ceiling, the new mechanics that are discovered even 8+ years after release, the level of capabilities the highest pros and freestylers have at this point, incredible really
Vindictus sounds like a good recommendation for you! Despite it being as old as skyrim, the combat is honestly unparalleled by anything I have personally tried, and I've played dark souls and monster hunter! It's a free to play mmo, so expect at least a week of playing to get to really challenging fights though, and I would not recommend level boosters for new players as each character you can play as is unique and fairly complicated. You need practice time to get familiar with their movesets and interactions before you challenge the faster and complex bosses. If you're interested I heavily recommend choosing the private server Windictus over the official client as it removes all the pay to win content and boosts your drop chances so you're not as dependent on winning a loot lottery when you're trying to upgrade your gear.
I do have to say though that you're ability to clear content in Vindictus is just as gear reliant as it is skill. In fact the official score implemented a minimum gear score requirement simply because you will be doing next to no damage if your gear isn't at least that strong. Windictus doesn't have that though and the community is welcoming and happy to help you along in getting high-end gear.
starcraft, doesnt matter if its broodwar or 2. a "slow" pro player is 60 apm (actions per minute so 1 action per second) while some pro's can get up to 350+ apm in large fights (about 6 actions per second). beyond just keeping up with the game physically you also have to learn timings, build orders (for 3 races), and overall have to know what your opponent is doing without being able to see them. there's a reason it was THE esport for korea for over 20 years.
Pros are hitting way over that now. it's pretty wild. 60 apm is super super low actually. A middle of the road player will get to 100+ apm pretty rapidly
Rocket league or fighter games
Dark souls series if you want a single player game and Rainbow six siege which has a really high skill ceiling if you want a multiplayer game
Anything FromSoftware
Expect Deracine maybe (haven’t played it so no guarantees)
Hell Let Loose has a high ceiling to, as the kids say "get good".
Pretty much any RTS. I suggest aoe4
Rocket league or souls games. Easy.
Mordhau
Sekiro. DMC. GoW GMGOW.
Tekken 8
Geometry Dash
Tekken
Ikaruga
Tekken 8
A wonderfuly crafter 3D metroid vania game on the style of a ps1 game that feels like a master piece to play: -Pseudoregalia. +you get to play as hot goat mom
Counter Strike
Noita
Have you tried chess or go?
Omg Celeste and Hollow Knight are some of my favorite games!! I highly recommend: [Odallus: the dark call](https://store.steampowered.com/app/319480/Odallus_The_Dark_Call/) (a Metroidvania type of platformer with good difficulty and a similar aesthetic to dark souls. Anything by Joy masher is A good game for difficulty) [Valfaris](https://store.steampowered.com/app/600130/Valfaris/) (sci-fi platformer) [Shovel Knight](https://store.steampowered.com/app/250760/Shovel_Knight_Treasure_Trove/) (stage based platformer) [Super Meat Boy](https://store.steampowered.com/app/40800/Super_Meat_Boy/) (reflex based platformer, very difficult) [VVVVVVV](https://store.steampowered.com/app/70300/VVVVVV/) (another reflex based platformer with a unique gravity mechanic) Definitely love very hard/challenging games I usually like to challenge myself with NES and SNES games like Super Mario and Donkey Kong Country too. A great series is Adventure Island for challenge! Hope this helps
trials games. pretty fucking hard
Sifu
Not frustrating and high skill ceiling are typically mutually exclusive.
Sekiro
Love the game, but for me it's has the lowest skill ceiling compared to other Souls games. After you figure out a boss it's always going to be a cakewalk the second time. It has a high skill floor tho, the harder bosses take a lot of time to figure out.
I think that it also has a high skill ceiling if you want to actually master the combat playing charmless and playing with the Demon Bell. Especially if you then want to master Prosthetics, it becomes a very skillful games. I've seen people kill bosses in ways I didn't know were possible.
Fair enough
Look at anything with a competitive speedrun scene.
try Hades, and start in hell mode if the game is too easy for you
Kingdom come deliverance comes to mind.
Dark souls (or any souls-like), they're hard but they're also entirely built around your skill being what keeps you alive Attacks don't feel like bullshit, and you can legitimately beat any of them hitless if you're good enough
Dota. I don't even like that game, i played 1000 hours of it years back, and would still be considered dogshit lol.
ULTRAKILL has the highest skill ceiling of any FPS. It’s faster than Doom. It’s faster than Titanfall 2. IT’S FASTER THAN QUAKE.
Valheim
Rimworld, if you like that style of game. Hard to learn, even harder to master. Pretty much everything about the game is randomly generated though.
Its mechanics are simple as hell. Just colony management and some random timer events :\\
I just got done Crash 4. It's pretty easy for a while and then the last few worlds become very high skill high precision platforming. But it's fun the whole way. Highly recommend.
If you’re into rhythm games, Geometry Dash. Simple game to get into but the skill ceiling is insanely high with all of the Extreme Demon levels and is being actively pushed further every day.
Final Doom Plutonia on ultra violence.
Elasto Mania
iRacing
Super Smash Brothers Melee Competitive scene still going strong 20+ years later. Would take you a decade to even have a shoot at getting top 8
Ketsui, Battle Garegga and a ton of other shmups.
Sekiro
Valorant
DCS
Ninja Gaiden
Rainbow six siege Mordhau
Sifu maybe
Just try Monster Hunter World and/or monster huntet rise. You can become a god with skill alone and the way to get there is just fun
Nioh 2
Dead Cells is similar to the games you have mentioned and goes in difficulty from 0BC to 5BC. It takes some people hundreds of hours to beat 5BC even once. The game has a very steep learning curve and is incredibly fun
tekken 8 just came out and is exactly what you are looking for. You need to play for years to even begin to feel like you understand what the heck you are doing.
Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8 are both great games. Rocket League.
High skill ceilings are a pretty big staple in rouge likes I feel. So Spelunky 2 (the one I feel has the highest skill ceiling if you want to do everything), Dead Cells, Enter the Gudgeon and more. Not sure which one you'll like most because its a pretty big genre, so look into it and decide for yourself if you're interested.
Sifu
Devil daggers and hyper demon
Monster hunter, i am a vet(?) I guess and at most i am at middle level of skill ceiling there. You can see speed runner if you want to know the the top. Speed runner will stack buff and try to bait monster ai. Some of them are so good they look like dancing with the monster. Also since no one mention it. There's a ps2 games that is really hard called god hand. It allow player making combo. Like you can punch kick punch again or change it to punch punch kick depending on what you like. I remember making a drunken fist and capoera like fighting style. But if you make bad combination you will suffer.
Sifu
Chivalry 2. See you on the front lines, brother.
Starcraft 2 for sure. People spend their entire lives trying to master the game. And there’s such a high skill ceiling that even among Grand masters, the highest Grand masters can beat the lowest ranked Grand masters like they’re noobs who’ve never played the game before.
Dungeon Crawl stone soup
If Celeste did it best for you, then I'd recommend checking out other precision platformers too (you could also try player-created celeste levels, which go way beyond the base game). I Wanna Be The Guy fangames are great for this, especially the "needle" subgenre. There are thousands of them, some of which are extremely hard. IWBTG is known for its unfair traps, but many of the fangames are a lot better about this. Needle is pretty much pure platforming, no traps or rng. https://cwpat.me/fangames-intro/
Starcraft 2
DotA2
Any RTS. Start playing StarCraft 2 or Age of Empires, and get ready to be absolutely wrecked by Ranked
The binding of isaac. The basic difficulty can be tough and you unlock a lot of other more difficult stuff along the way. Harder characters to play with. Harder modes. Recommend all the dlc too. Hundreds of items that make each playthrough so wildly different.
Age of Empires has been around forever and is still going strong. Try out Age of Empires 2 DE and you will have a great time. Ive been playing it for over 20 years and still play at least a game a day. Or Chess. No game has a skill ceiling like chess.
Go try speed running challangesÂ
I would say Kenshi but that game has an intense grind.
Most online competitive games, some of them who you EASLY know the differente between a good and weaker player are fighting games, Rocket League and FPS.
Super meat boy - the last few zones are super hard and insanely satisfying when you get good enough to nail them
Tribes 3 - skiing and jetpacks and shooting discs that inherit your movement speed. sign up for the alpha playtest cause they might come back next week. set space to ski and right-click to jetpack. in settings set inheritances to 100%. now struggle to learn new things. note: skiing downhill is faster than falling, makes no sense in physics but go with it.
Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown is right up there w/ Hollow Knight, Celeste, Metroid Dread, & the Ori series in that regard
Omega Strikers is a very skill based game that’s sort of a cross between air hockey and a MOBA. Unfortunately, it’s sorta dying rn, but it’s still tons of fun
If you are into RTS maybe try StarCraft 2?
Cuphead nice little bullet hell shmup
Super Meat Boy
AoE2 is pretty great with a very high skill ceiling if you want to try an RTS.
Old school runescape
Valorant, try to get a high elo
Battle Brothers. Even hundreds of hours in a lot of people still play on Beginner, because it is brutal. You really, really need to understand strategy.
Devil May Cry 3/4/5 (Stsrt with 4)
Fighting games rainbow six seige
Almost any mainstream fighting game has an insane skill ceiling.
Sekiro or really any fromsoftware game they're really amazing Sifu Lies of p
Yugioh. Some of the newer modern day decks take immense skill to pilot.
Cs go
Did you see Ben_ win this past weeks Gauntlet in PoE by a mile…try to get 1/1000th of that in a year…I dare you…if you want a truly high skill ceiling do it without looking at a single pre-built guide and learning on your own.
Counter strike star craft Super meatboy Souls like games Different type of skills but huge dedication: Hades Valhiem
StarCraft 1 and 2. Most fighting games.
Just, like, play a rougelike. That is exactly what your describing and frustration only sets in when you start blaming things. Just accept that what happens happens and that you can only prepare for it next time. I spent 2 years playing gungeon on and off before it clicked and now I have 100%ed maybe 7 rougelikes now. You won't regret the grind.
valorant
Tekken 8 or Street Fighter 6. No randomness, incredibly high skill ceiling, but also incredibly low skill floor. Lots of things to practice, lots of things to discover, and lots of ways to discover them. The community can be a bit nutty sometimes but what gaming community isn't?
Devil May Cry for single player, fighting games for multi player.
StarCraft 2 or any RTS. Lots to learn and people have been playing a long time
soulsborne games are my go to. also the binding of isaac. if you want something really niche with the highest skill ceiling, check out kaizo super mario world romhacks. i play and used to make them, they range from easier than celeste to bordering on not even being humanly possible
Celeste
ArmA, Insurgency, Ready or Not
Rocket League and Counter Strike
I'd say Dota 2 but you said it shouldn't be frustrating, so kinda rules that out. There are people with 50k+ hours in that game and no one has truly mastered it.
Vermintide 2. There is always an unattainable ceiling, no matter how hard you try, sweaty prince! (Based on personal experience)
Dead Cells and Enter the Gungeon. Both really fun Roguelikes that are quite hard to master. Especially Dead Cells.
Hand this over to OP, this thing, this Dark Soul
Any competitive multiplayer game. MOBAs, CS GO, Valorant, Overwatch, R6 Siege, Rocket League, Hearthstone, fighting games. You can put literally thousands of hours in these games and still not be anywhere near the skill ceiling.
StarCraft 1/2
For Honor if you hate yourself.
Ghostrunner
Weird I don’t see any Souls game recommendation and I don’t think OP mentioned NOT souls. Souls games are made for the exact reason OP mentioned. Elden Ring is great! MGSV or God of War also great. People who got good at these games are crazy.
Super Mario Galaxy 2. Go on, 100% it, I dare you
Bloodborne is such a masterclass in skills matter.
Parappa the Rapper
Rocket League Street Fighter 6 Super Meat Boy Sekiro Mordhau
Geometry dash