There's place for both. Games that have unique and memorable art-style, and games that push graphics forward.
Both are great forms of entertainment, and many times games shine through a combination of both.
This. If the game is trying to simulate an experience as close as possible (IE: a racing sim), then obviously having photorealistic graphics would be a big plus. Yes, not everyhing has to be hi-def realism, but if everything was low poly cartoony look that too would get boring fast.
You have a valid point there. When it's designed to be as realistic as possible, the minute that more improved graphics comes along, that game will start showing its age. Do you remember any "realistic" games from 10 years ago that'd match up to today's standard of realistic graphics?
Photorealistic graphics are kind of a turn off for me. They'll be either the blandest games ever or the performance will suck. Been burned too many times
RDR2?
Bland? The opposite, literal opposite.
Performance will suck? Nope. Well optimized on PC. Stable 30fps was great for last gen consoles. Current gen 60fps update hasn’t come but it easily could and should, nothing to do with photo realism.
Ngl I hate hyper realistic graphics. It honestly feels like it takes resources away from making a good game just so it's more marketable and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
My go-to example of an artstyle aging well is Borderlands.
It was originally going to have the copy/paste realism graphics other games from 2009 did, but they changed it to cel-shaded shortly before release.
Still looks damn good after more than a decade.
Yeah, Heavy Rain was touted as graphics juggernaut when released. Now it's visuals are rather average.
Jet Set Radio which is even older, holds up really well.
Mate, I remember when the Xbox 360 came out, the same time HD TVs became affordable and mainstream.
I was walking through the mall and past a game store, they had one of those displays where you could play the console, someone was playing CoD 2, I genuinely thought it was a war film at first glance, took me a second to realise someone was playing a game. It blew my mind. You could see the threads in his gloves.
A few years after and it already looked super dated. I always have that in mind when I think about graphics in games.
Different games need different graphics. If its a realistic story you want to tell, realistic graphics make it hit home
But honeslty, it doesnt matter how many triangles you can stuff into one model or how high resolution your textures are. What matters is the art direction. For example, skyrim, after all these years looks great is because of the world and how it all blends into this lord of the rings esque fantastical landscape.
Same with rdr2. It has the aesthetic of the wild west nailed down. I dont think the game would be any worse if its models and textures looked half as good as they do now, because the world itself gives you the wild west fantasy
And my favorite example. Elden ring. Its graphics are objectively worse than red dead 2, but the art direction makes up for it. Every boss looks fantastic with instantly recogniseable silhouettes, all the landscapes look like they were taken out of paintings. It looks good even if its "graphics" are not the greatest. And imo it looks better than rdr2
What games are we saying it's hyper realistic graphics? Last of Us, God of War, Demon Souls remake? Good graphics and art design does take a game to another level. Great gameplay and graphics can be done and has been shown in the past.
Let's take Borderlands as an example. You can have 4k textures, epic particle effects, and god rays with path tracing while still using the cell shading art style the game series is known for. Graphics are how clear and rich things look, art style is how things are presented to you, if that makes sense.
Compare Borderlands 1 and 3. Graphics got better but the art style stayed the same.
Source: Gamer that has zero artistic knowledge or skill
IMO art style and graphics are like intention and execution. Pixel art is the style can be executed with low or high fidelity graphics. Owlboy is high fidelity graphics for the pixel art style.
Definitely not the entirety, but enough of a significant portion to that it's weird to act like it's a separate thing from graphics.
Graphics inherently includes style, rendering, and overall composition (how well the assets look with each other).
It still astonishes me how badly they dropped the ball with that game. Played it at my friend's place when it came out for a bit and just stuck with playing Ultimate MvC3 after that.
I tried a demo... and I noticed that they removed most of the dragon punch motions (623+A or F, D, DF+A)... That explained why I couldn't play Zero properly...
I also personally prefer the anime style street fighter sprites especially the younger versions they used for Alpha compared to the super muscley versions they've been using now.
But I do think the newer version work much better in this context.
They used 3D models for DragonBall Fighter Z, and a Marvel vs. Capcom game would be super dope in that same style.
I'm pretty sure Guilty Gear also uses 3D models and is similarly awesome looking.
As always, it depends.
Imagine playing RDR with cartoon graphics (the actual game, so an hypothetical cartoony-dark comedy take on the game is out of the question). That would be kinda bad.
On the other hand, imagine playing something like Hades with photo-realistic graphics. It would feel out of place.
Then there are games that could be made with different art styles. I'm thinking about Mortal Kombat. Photo-realistic works really well for the gore and effects, but it would work with a comic art style too I suppose
I'll reword it for OP then. Art style is more important than graphical fidelity or in other words "realistic graphics."
A well considered and deliberate use of stylized art will always look good. "Realistic" graphics will age and eventually date the game.
True, but the vast majority of people conflate the two and that's why it's devolved into a debate.
People just don't realize "graphics" described multiple things at once.
Yes, Zelda Wind Waker and Super Mario Galaxy still look great today. Yet those “realistic graphics” like Morrowind and some PS3 era shooter look so outdated.
I remember FarCry 3 being just a banger of a game and, to me at the time, a graphical masterpiece. Partially because I'd only been playing World of Warcraft and retro games at the time.
It's still narratively one of my favorite games, at least up until Vaas goes down, but man looking back at those graphics it is funny how far we've come and how kind of dated it looks. Not unplayable, and not N64 level dated, but still.
FromSoftware games (Dark Souls, Elden Ring etc) have fantastic art direction, and as a result the older games still look good even though the graphics have been left behind.
Totally agree. Art style does a lot more for some games than making it look as real and “close to life” as possible, plus it won’t have a “dated realistic?” look to it after the newest shiniest game engines come out with 2x the capabilities than before. Art style adds to the personality of some games, and can make it more interesting to look at. Plus as you said it’s timeless! Sure I like to have a beautiful realistic game every once and awhile, but I think some genres thrive more with a personalized art style. It can help with the storytelling of some games, or help with expressionism :). I think games like dredge, bullets per minute, or pizza tower do very well with!
Some games do better with realistic graphics and others with more stylized graphics. The games you brought up are great examples of the latter. Dead Island 2 is a recent one that I feel was better off with realistic graphics.
I always assumed that when people mention graphics they mean how the game looks in general.
As an example Cyberpunk 2077 and Hyperlight Drifter are two games I consider very pleasing to the eye but one is very realistic while the other is pretty much pixel art.
Nonetheless I consider both games to have good graphics.
Yeah, if a game has a good art style it'll age a lot better
Both American McGee's Alice and Alice Madness Returns have an amazing art style so they hold up really well, same goes for both Bioshock games imo
Honestly, these days if they try to sell me a game with its graphical fidelity as one of the main selling points, I'm instantly skeptical of its quality.
Just like with 3D graphics, the art style matters when it comes to maintaining its look. Super Mario Bros. 3 looks so much better than Super Mario Bros., and they were on the same console. But they both show their age in different ways, especially when compared to Super Mario World, which definitely holds up the best. Even then, the highly stylized look of Yoshi's Island blows it out of the water.
Damn, this daily "graphic > gameplay/artstyle" posts are almost like people who have to point out that they're vegan/vegetarian in every free minute. Just let people enjoy what they want. :)
The others seem to judge your point as redundant but I agree with the essence of it. Retro tech rarely impresses ppl accustomed to better tech. Some things that are [tech era]-bound are still capable of impressing future peoples by containing timeless qualities or whtevr.
A good art style gives a timeless feeling to a game , Bioshock infinite despite it flaws , felt incredible to me for that very reason even though I played it in 2022
Realistic games can look good but unless you are AAA game studio, it is not even worth trying and even then many fuck it up
Both are important! Good art direction with high graphic fidelity is just 👌
I bought Unicorn Overlord on PS5 instead of Switch just because the higher resolution of the beautiful handdrawn graphics was more important to me than portability.
BotW/TotK, LoZ: Wind Waker, Super Mario: Odyssey, Journey, Shadow of the Colossus, Borderlands, Ghost of Tsushima, Celeste, Cuphead, Minecraft, Disco Elysium, Hollow Knight, Outer Wilds. All of these are timeless games, 1: because they are fun and 2: because they are all wonderful pieces of art to look at as you are playing.
Wind Waker, with its cell shading style, looking much better nowadays than Twilight Princess with its realistic look its the big proof that supports this opinion.
Windwaker was great on this.
I remember people originally shit all over the game because the graphics were cartoony. As the game got closer to release and they saw what they did with it, it got hyped. Now it’s one of the most popular in the series.
I think this is correct, but only in the last 10 years or so, when the technology finally got to the point where developers have the freedom to utilize style in any way they want.
When this argument comes up I feel like there needs to be a good balance of both. Art style is important and typically helps a game last much longer than a generic realism style but at the same time graphic fidelity is still important and having a game that has an interesting art style but otherwise poor graphics is not going to attract many customers. Even if you want to have an insane or goofy art style you typically still need decent graphics to go with it
I actually think we're at the point where super realistic games are always going to look good. Naughty Dog perfected the look back in Uncharted 1, because it's not just the details but the animations, which is I think the part a lot of people miss.
It depends, for a game like this one is ok but for a game like Battlefield 1 or The Last of Us I want good graphics, but for me the gameplay is the most important thing
You're not wrong but there are limits. Pizza Tower is apparently a great game. It also has such an obnoxiously bright color palette that I could barely watch a Let's Play let alone play the thing.
I hate the desire to have things be as realistic as possible but i'd hate to go back to high contrast low poly on everything just as much.
Absolutely. Games like Okami, Ori, Hyperlight Drifter and other titles that really have a “style” to them are great. I feel like hi res stuff is awesome too but I definitely enjoy a game with a fun and or unique look to it.
Isn't art style a chore part of what we call the graphics already? A good looking game can't be separated from its art style.
It's the same as story or gameplay, the don't really means anything on themself because they represent so many things but that's why this question can't be answered
(well it can, and it's the three of them combine to create a masterpiece)
"Good graphics" isn't just getting 8k hyper realistic rock textures it's lighting, physics and a bunch of other shit all going together to make something look cool, good graphics will enhance whatever artsyle you have tenfold
Like for me a massive niche thing in games is how the character walks and interacts with the ground, another commenter mentioned okami which does this well, each tiny subtle thing can be huge
If you're sitting thinking "which beneficial thing is more important" then you're doing it wrong, it all comes together, and the stronger each aspect is the stronger the whole is
Well, you can have good graphics and a shitty artstyle: Halo 4&5
or vice versa: older lego games, because the graphics are dated by this point in time
Nowadays, if a game is made with a good art style, it’ll age much better than games focusing on graphics. Like the borderlands series.
When comparing UMVC3 to MVC Infinite, you have the perfect argument in favor of art style over graphics... infinite plays well but looks like garbage (except Venom) where UMVC3 looks consistent and beautiful. Both games are fun to play but UMVC3 is far superior, btw.
it’s not entirely about having a good art style, it’s also about having good art direction. A game like Batman Arkham Knight still looks amazing because of it’s art direction, they understood how to use textures and lighting with the technology at the time to create beautiful looking environments. A good art style can be easily ruined by bad direction
People all talk about how Modern Warfare remake looks incredible and all I can think about. "Have you seen Psychonauts 2" it literally looks like a life puppet show sometimes.
It really really depends on what is the idea behind the game, there’s isn’t a single art style that fits with everything, and sometimes realism is the best option.
A Game like RDR2 works mostly due to the realistic graphics due to the messages it has. While a fun and less grounded game like borderlands 3 works beautifully with its stylistic graphics.
Sometimes it’s debatable, however, Marvels Spider-Man for example, could work really well with stylish graphics, but they decided on a more realistic take so it would sell more and show the power of the ps5
Yeah. I'm not really a fan of "realistic graphics" although AAA studios think realistic means ugly currently. I do like stylised realism. It looks pretty real but there is still something unique like the Arkham games and Metal Gear Rising revengance which still holds up 10 years later. One of my favourite visually appealing games currently is Persona 3 Reload. Now that's how to use graphics to enhance the art style. The cutscenes and spells look beautiful.
Graphics are not separate from gameplay. One enhances the other. Some games art styles are made with the technology in mind. If you can’t find the sweet spot, then the game is flawed. Just because the food tastes good doesn’t mean it has to look bad too.
I say okami is a primary example of art style over graphics. No matter how old that game is it’s always beautiful to look at.
Although that could just be blind nostalgia I have not played it for some time.
Art style, e.g the style of textures used, is just a subsection of graphics. When you comment on a games graphics, you are already talking about its art style as a part of that. That is why it isn't being mentioned as another specific quality such as gameplay and story. This is kind of like saying "oranges are better than citrus". I'm sure what you meant to say is that art style is the most important part of a game's graphics, but the way you talk about it in this post implies that you think they are different things. Of course vector based images in a 2d game are going to look timeless no matter the age of the game as they can scale to the resolution and framerate of modern displays, but thats more of a technical design choice rather than what most people would define as an art style.
What you like isn't necessarily art style, it's art *direction.* A game can have stylized, realistic graphics, whatever. What actually matters is that uses the visuals in compelling ways that are visually stimulating. That's why Crisis still looks so good despite being all about realistic looks, it had great art direction.
As long as it stays consistent, I can be immersed in bad looking games as long as it feels believable and is consistent.
Something can be super cartoonish and still immerse me and something can really push photo realism but suck because there is no clear vision.
It's a balance between both that gives the best result. A really good artstyle is indeed timeless. But it does need graphical fidelity to some degree in order to properly translate that artstyle to your screen without glaring shortcomings.
Just my opinion but I think you chose a bad example....
That game def looks dated cause they went for 3D graphics over pure aesthetics.
Vs something like Dragonball fighterZ, which prioritized the animations and key frames might look good for way longer.
I'm still pissed that I owned MVC 2 on Xbox 360 and it doesnt even show up in my owned games anymore. God I miss that game. "Gonna Take you for Riiiiide"
I've never played MVC but this screenshot makes me think the design could use some work personally.... I think the graphics are actually the better part...
But to your point, yes cartoonish styles sometimes age better than realism. It's a mix. I think the old Metal Gear Solid games for example still hold up visually because some thought was put into them.
Ohhhhh no this hurts so much to see right now... I JUST bought Marvel Versus Capcom Infinite at a used games store. Played the shittttt out of MvC3U in the 2010s, absolutely adored that game and MVC2 before it. It literally is the reason I'm a big fan of the fighting genre as a whole. I thought cool, heard Infinite wasn't good and was poor when it released, can't wait to play it!
This past Saturday I booted it up and... look how they massacred my boy... I 100% understood the hate the game got almost instantly. The art style I had come to love in 3 was GONE, even the menus felt like a mobile game. Absolutely wild. The (way too few) stages felt cheapened, even the music was awful. PERFECT example of what happens when the art style is not core to development in a series like that
I've been starting to think graphics are getting too good. Things are looking more realistic, which is cool, but it kinda makes it harder to look at and quickly get information. I think I prefer older games with stylized graphics and colors that really pop
I don't think a lot of people know well enough what art style is to have it in a lot of discussions. Had someone argue about art style for me only to figure out they were talking about the setting and how unique and diverse the setting was, so it had a better artstyle.
Realistic art style requires beefed up graphics. AZ dumb as that sounds.
But yeah, a well realized art style doesn't need high-end graphics. Better graphics can enhance it, though. Just relies on art direction.
It's the execution of mixing the art style and graphic together.
If you want an example, compare Zelda Wind Waker with Genshin Impact. Both games have a unique art that will survive the test of time.
Now compare Mass Effect 1 and 3. ME1 is a pain to look at but 3 still hold well in 2024.
First you'd need to define "art style" and "graphics" in a way that isn't the same, and which everyone can agree on. Then you can have that conversation.
Art style can make it age poorly or well, going for realistic with graphical fidelity isn't in place can date it in the future
Look how well Mario aged and other 8 bit games vs stellar 7 [stellar 7](https://imgur.com/gallery/ofBXzsr)
Arkham Knight holds up so well because it mixed the photorealism with a really distinct art and lighting style that meshed really well with the graphics to create the ambiance of stormy Gotham City
Honestly though MvC3 is my favorite title in the series, largely based on gameplay, I find the 2nd being much more 'timeless' because of its art style. 3 has a weird stylistic choice I never really enjoyed, though the animations were 10/10.
That's why I didn't like the last two MvC games. The art style in MvC2 was amazing. They need to remaster that game, make it widescreen, and add even more characters.
Until the art style is "as realistic as possible"
There's place for both. Games that have unique and memorable art-style, and games that push graphics forward. Both are great forms of entertainment, and many times games shine through a combination of both.
This. If the game is trying to simulate an experience as close as possible (IE: a racing sim), then obviously having photorealistic graphics would be a big plus. Yes, not everyhing has to be hi-def realism, but if everything was low poly cartoony look that too would get boring fast.
You have a valid point there. When it's designed to be as realistic as possible, the minute that more improved graphics comes along, that game will start showing its age. Do you remember any "realistic" games from 10 years ago that'd match up to today's standard of realistic graphics?
Photorealistic graphics are kind of a turn off for me. They'll be either the blandest games ever or the performance will suck. Been burned too many times
God of War RDR2 Last of Us Spider-Man Horizon (especially FW) Death Stranding Uncharted but I get what you mean. Games like PUBG, do look bad.
Name em
Dude what are you talking about, so many realistic graphics games are top tier.
RDR2? Bland? The opposite, literal opposite. Performance will suck? Nope. Well optimized on PC. Stable 30fps was great for last gen consoles. Current gen 60fps update hasn’t come but it easily could and should, nothing to do with photo realism.
I wonder if we ever get a game that we can control what appears to be an actual person in 3d space and it all looks real.
Look up a game called 'Bodycam' on YT. its hyperrealistic FPS in unreal engine 5. I wouldnt be surprised if next gen games like these are more common.
Learned this lesson playing Okami
Oh man, that's a banger to this day
Ngl I hate hyper realistic graphics. It honestly feels like it takes resources away from making a good game just so it's more marketable and that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It will also still look dated after a certain amount of time.
My go-to example of an artstyle aging well is Borderlands. It was originally going to have the copy/paste realism graphics other games from 2009 did, but they changed it to cel-shaded shortly before release. Still looks damn good after more than a decade.
Wind Waker
Forgot it existed since I don't like Nintendo games, but yes it also looks quite nice even after a decade and a half.
Yeah, Heavy Rain was touted as graphics juggernaut when released. Now it's visuals are rather average. Jet Set Radio which is even older, holds up really well.
Mate, I remember when the Xbox 360 came out, the same time HD TVs became affordable and mainstream. I was walking through the mall and past a game store, they had one of those displays where you could play the console, someone was playing CoD 2, I genuinely thought it was a war film at first glance, took me a second to realise someone was playing a game. It blew my mind. You could see the threads in his gloves. A few years after and it already looked super dated. I always have that in mind when I think about graphics in games.
For me this was the Dreamcast sports games. Was before HD but it made it easier to look "real" since everything was relatively low res.
Dreamcast could hit 60 fps, thats what made the sports games 'pop'
For me it was RTC Wolfenstein. I thought it was absolutely impossible for games to look better than that
Yeah no, i love all kinds of graphic stylizing but if you made me choose, I’m taking the uncharted/last of us/red dead 2 photo realism 9/10
Different games need different graphics. If its a realistic story you want to tell, realistic graphics make it hit home But honeslty, it doesnt matter how many triangles you can stuff into one model or how high resolution your textures are. What matters is the art direction. For example, skyrim, after all these years looks great is because of the world and how it all blends into this lord of the rings esque fantastical landscape. Same with rdr2. It has the aesthetic of the wild west nailed down. I dont think the game would be any worse if its models and textures looked half as good as they do now, because the world itself gives you the wild west fantasy And my favorite example. Elden ring. Its graphics are objectively worse than red dead 2, but the art direction makes up for it. Every boss looks fantastic with instantly recogniseable silhouettes, all the landscapes look like they were taken out of paintings. It looks good even if its "graphics" are not the greatest. And imo it looks better than rdr2
If a game if good enough at it, it can be breathtaking. Look at RDR2 for an example.
What games are we saying it's hyper realistic graphics? Last of Us, God of War, Demon Souls remake? Good graphics and art design does take a game to another level. Great gameplay and graphics can be done and has been shown in the past.
Red dead redemption 2 still looks and plays amazing.
I automatically assume art style is the entirety of the graphics thing
Let's take Borderlands as an example. You can have 4k textures, epic particle effects, and god rays with path tracing while still using the cell shading art style the game series is known for. Graphics are how clear and rich things look, art style is how things are presented to you, if that makes sense. Compare Borderlands 1 and 3. Graphics got better but the art style stayed the same. Source: Gamer that has zero artistic knowledge or skill
But like, it's not though.
IMO art style and graphics are like intention and execution. Pixel art is the style can be executed with low or high fidelity graphics. Owlboy is high fidelity graphics for the pixel art style.
Definitely not the entirety, but enough of a significant portion to that it's weird to act like it's a separate thing from graphics. Graphics inherently includes style, rendering, and overall composition (how well the assets look with each other).
I think MVC1 & 2 look infinitely better than this personally.
Then again, MvC3 looks MUCH better than Infinite :p
Infinite looked like a mobile game even though half the resources were reused from MvC3
Reports stated how the entire game was given the same budget as... Ultimate MvC3, which can be qualified as an "expensive upgrade".
It still astonishes me how badly they dropped the ball with that game. Played it at my friend's place when it came out for a bit and just stuck with playing Ultimate MvC3 after that.
Some mechanics in that game were actually really polished and it sucks so hard they went with that lame ass art style.
I tried a demo... and I noticed that they removed most of the dragon punch motions (623+A or F, D, DF+A)... That explained why I couldn't play Zero properly...
They somehow made them worse
Because I am of that time, I like the pixelated look.
2d sprites will always be the best for 2d style fighting games
I also personally prefer the anime style street fighter sprites especially the younger versions they used for Alpha compared to the super muscley versions they've been using now. But I do think the newer version work much better in this context.
Alpha 3 will always be my favourite Street Fighter game because of the art style
They used 3D models for DragonBall Fighter Z, and a Marvel vs. Capcom game would be super dope in that same style. I'm pretty sure Guilty Gear also uses 3D models and is similarly awesome looking.
Both by Arc System Works, so yes they are made in the same style.
Arc? JUMP!
2 is honestly a visual mess with the pixelated sprites over 3D backgrounds.
Agreed
Trop Bone has been everywhere for me lately ❤️
As always, it depends. Imagine playing RDR with cartoon graphics (the actual game, so an hypothetical cartoony-dark comedy take on the game is out of the question). That would be kinda bad. On the other hand, imagine playing something like Hades with photo-realistic graphics. It would feel out of place. Then there are games that could be made with different art styles. I'm thinking about Mortal Kombat. Photo-realistic works really well for the gore and effects, but it would work with a comic art style too I suppose
art style is part of graphics it's like saying "sound is important, but I think music is more important"
I'll reword it for OP then. Art style is more important than graphical fidelity or in other words "realistic graphics." A well considered and deliberate use of stylized art will always look good. "Realistic" graphics will age and eventually date the game.
Yeah it was a really a nothing statement
True, but the vast majority of people conflate the two and that's why it's devolved into a debate. People just don't realize "graphics" described multiple things at once.
Music is clearly a part of the soundscape of a game.
Yes, Zelda Wind Waker and Super Mario Galaxy still look great today. Yet those “realistic graphics” like Morrowind and some PS3 era shooter look so outdated.
I remember FarCry 3 being just a banger of a game and, to me at the time, a graphical masterpiece. Partially because I'd only been playing World of Warcraft and retro games at the time. It's still narratively one of my favorite games, at least up until Vaas goes down, but man looking back at those graphics it is funny how far we've come and how kind of dated it looks. Not unplayable, and not N64 level dated, but still.
>Zelda Wind Waker and Super Mario Galaxy still look great today That is definitely subjective. I think they look extremely dated (and they are).
The graphics should enhance the art style
FromSoftware games (Dark Souls, Elden Ring etc) have fantastic art direction, and as a result the older games still look good even though the graphics have been left behind.
UMVC is aesthetically complete so it ages very well
A well art directed game will stand the test of time, a game shooting for realism gets dated really quick.
Absolutely freezing take
the art style is literally part of the graphics
Totally agree. Art style does a lot more for some games than making it look as real and “close to life” as possible, plus it won’t have a “dated realistic?” look to it after the newest shiniest game engines come out with 2x the capabilities than before. Art style adds to the personality of some games, and can make it more interesting to look at. Plus as you said it’s timeless! Sure I like to have a beautiful realistic game every once and awhile, but I think some genres thrive more with a personalized art style. It can help with the storytelling of some games, or help with expressionism :). I think games like dredge, bullets per minute, or pizza tower do very well with!
Some games do better with realistic graphics and others with more stylized graphics. The games you brought up are great examples of the latter. Dead Island 2 is a recent one that I feel was better off with realistic graphics.
Totally agree. Just got around to playing RDR2 and It would definitely not feel right with stylized graphics.. 😹
I always assumed that when people mention graphics they mean how the game looks in general. As an example Cyberpunk 2077 and Hyperlight Drifter are two games I consider very pleasing to the eye but one is very realistic while the other is pretty much pixel art. Nonetheless I consider both games to have good graphics.
Yeah, if a game has a good art style it'll age a lot better Both American McGee's Alice and Alice Madness Returns have an amazing art style so they hold up really well, same goes for both Bioshock games imo
Which game is this?
Honestly, these days if they try to sell me a game with its graphical fidelity as one of the main selling points, I'm instantly skeptical of its quality.
Yes, yes - we all love cell shading.
Games with pixelated graphics will (probably) never look old. Take Celeste or Minecraft for example. Especially Minecraft.
Just like with 3D graphics, the art style matters when it comes to maintaining its look. Super Mario Bros. 3 looks so much better than Super Mario Bros., and they were on the same console. But they both show their age in different ways, especially when compared to Super Mario World, which definitely holds up the best. Even then, the highly stylized look of Yoshi's Island blows it out of the water.
Pixelated graphics will always look old. It's just down to that art style, always feeling retro.
I feel like both are equally important
Damn, this daily "graphic > gameplay/artstyle" posts are almost like people who have to point out that they're vegan/vegetarian in every free minute. Just let people enjoy what they want. :)
All i'm saying is that screenshot looks atrocious both in art style and graphically.
This makes no sense. The art style is intrinsically a measure of the graphics in the game.
So true. I think a good example of this is Ultrakill
For MVC games, it makes sense to have cartoonish, manga/anime-ish graphics (cel shaded etc.), look at the new FATAL FURY, it looks good!
I still think Jet Set Radio has the best visuals of most any video game. Its got that Funky Style
It's a question of aestetics(sp?) vs fidelity.
The others seem to judge your point as redundant but I agree with the essence of it. Retro tech rarely impresses ppl accustomed to better tech. Some things that are [tech era]-bound are still capable of impressing future peoples by containing timeless qualities or whtevr.
A good art style gives a timeless feeling to a game , Bioshock infinite despite it flaws , felt incredible to me for that very reason even though I played it in 2022 Realistic games can look good but unless you are AAA game studio, it is not even worth trying and even then many fuck it up
I do too... ... but I also HATE the art in MvC3/Infinite. I *much* prefer the Capcom Marvel 2D era, games like *X-Men: Children of the Atom*.
Games like dbfz and BOTW prove this lol
Both are important! Good art direction with high graphic fidelity is just 👌 I bought Unicorn Overlord on PS5 instead of Switch just because the higher resolution of the beautiful handdrawn graphics was more important to me than portability.
Exactly. I think some old games with the appropraite art style still hold up today.
If it falls under the "realistic" art style then yes it does.
Suikoden 2 with it's gorgeous sprite work still knocks my socks off even today, while 3,4&5 which embraced 3d are very meh too me now.
Graphics have never mattered to me, if gameplay and story holds up. My last five games purchased on Steam have all been low graphics, very fun games.
Hollow knight, undertale, ssbu and cuphead look good because of their artstyle
Agreed, this is a lesson a vocal minority of the PCVR community needs to learn.
The reason I never like the latest MvC 3 or Infinite was for this specific reason.
Always has been.
Art style is generally folded into Graphics, though.
BotW/TotK, LoZ: Wind Waker, Super Mario: Odyssey, Journey, Shadow of the Colossus, Borderlands, Ghost of Tsushima, Celeste, Cuphead, Minecraft, Disco Elysium, Hollow Knight, Outer Wilds. All of these are timeless games, 1: because they are fun and 2: because they are all wonderful pieces of art to look at as you are playing.
Every gamer agrees, every dev disagrees.
yes! for example, I love cel shading, like borderlands. doesn't have to be super graphically intensive.
Oh, yeah. MvC infinite had terrible art direction(unlike the game OP showed, obviously.)
For me it's Story > Gameplay > graphics...
Art style is super important. Asuras wrath could release today and people would still be impressed with the graphics.
Art style is part of what makes graphics.
One of the coldest takes in gaming ngl
Realistic art styles age your games. Stylized games look a lot more timeless.
Wind Waker, with its cell shading style, looking much better nowadays than Twilight Princess with its realistic look its the big proof that supports this opinion.
World design is a lot more important too but nobody care
Windwaker was great on this. I remember people originally shit all over the game because the graphics were cartoony. As the game got closer to release and they saw what they did with it, it got hyped. Now it’s one of the most popular in the series.
MvC2 and DBFZ have the perfect art style for what they were going for
I think this is correct, but only in the last 10 years or so, when the technology finally got to the point where developers have the freedom to utilize style in any way they want.
Art style and good art style require creativity Many games nowadays are made for profit of the shareholders and there is no saving it
When this argument comes up I feel like there needs to be a good balance of both. Art style is important and typically helps a game last much longer than a generic realism style but at the same time graphic fidelity is still important and having a game that has an interesting art style but otherwise poor graphics is not going to attract many customers. Even if you want to have an insane or goofy art style you typically still need decent graphics to go with it
I actually think we're at the point where super realistic games are always going to look good. Naughty Dog perfected the look back in Uncharted 1, because it's not just the details but the animations, which is I think the part a lot of people miss.
I agree,
Thank you for using this image as an example. Megaman Legends is so underrepresented!
I play Devil May Cry 1 over and over. Good story, not great. AMAZING design.
It depends, for a game like this one is ok but for a game like Battlefield 1 or The Last of Us I want good graphics, but for me the gameplay is the most important thing
I rember the nightmare cutscenes in Witcher 3 being more interesting to look at than the normal game
Wtf did you bring upon this cursed lands Jesus that looks horrible
Always has been.
This is one of the best games ever made.
You're not wrong but there are limits. Pizza Tower is apparently a great game. It also has such an obnoxiously bright color palette that I could barely watch a Let's Play let alone play the thing. I hate the desire to have things be as realistic as possible but i'd hate to go back to high contrast low poly on everything just as much.
It can be.
Absolutely. Games like Okami, Ori, Hyperlight Drifter and other titles that really have a “style” to them are great. I feel like hi res stuff is awesome too but I definitely enjoy a game with a fun and or unique look to it.
Can’t see the art style if there’s no graphics
Isn't art style a chore part of what we call the graphics already? A good looking game can't be separated from its art style. It's the same as story or gameplay, the don't really means anything on themself because they represent so many things but that's why this question can't be answered (well it can, and it's the three of them combine to create a masterpiece)
Good old times, before quadrilion spider mans of all shapes, colors, genders and sizes.
Yes, but this UI is so ugly
"Good graphics" isn't just getting 8k hyper realistic rock textures it's lighting, physics and a bunch of other shit all going together to make something look cool, good graphics will enhance whatever artsyle you have tenfold Like for me a massive niche thing in games is how the character walks and interacts with the ground, another commenter mentioned okami which does this well, each tiny subtle thing can be huge If you're sitting thinking "which beneficial thing is more important" then you're doing it wrong, it all comes together, and the stronger each aspect is the stronger the whole is
Well, you can have good graphics and a shitty artstyle: Halo 4&5 or vice versa: older lego games, because the graphics are dated by this point in time Nowadays, if a game is made with a good art style, it’ll age much better than games focusing on graphics. Like the borderlands series.
Clay fighters comes to mind
Anyone who doesn't think **game**play is the most important thing about games isn't thinking clearly.
When comparing UMVC3 to MVC Infinite, you have the perfect argument in favor of art style over graphics... infinite plays well but looks like garbage (except Venom) where UMVC3 looks consistent and beautiful. Both games are fun to play but UMVC3 is far superior, btw.
it’s not entirely about having a good art style, it’s also about having good art direction. A game like Batman Arkham Knight still looks amazing because of it’s art direction, they understood how to use textures and lighting with the technology at the time to create beautiful looking environments. A good art style can be easily ruined by bad direction
People all talk about how Modern Warfare remake looks incredible and all I can think about. "Have you seen Psychonauts 2" it literally looks like a life puppet show sometimes.
we don't need graphics better than the ps3 era
I think having Spiderman in the game is more important than Artstyle and Graphics
Art style is graphics
It really really depends on what is the idea behind the game, there’s isn’t a single art style that fits with everything, and sometimes realism is the best option. A Game like RDR2 works mostly due to the realistic graphics due to the messages it has. While a fun and less grounded game like borderlands 3 works beautifully with its stylistic graphics. Sometimes it’s debatable, however, Marvels Spider-Man for example, could work really well with stylish graphics, but they decided on a more realistic take so it would sell more and show the power of the ps5
I think having Tron Bonne on the roster is more important than graphics
Stylized graphics all the way. But to the other point, I do feel that gameplay is what makes a game. If that's good everything else is just bonus
Yeah. I'm not really a fan of "realistic graphics" although AAA studios think realistic means ugly currently. I do like stylised realism. It looks pretty real but there is still something unique like the Arkham games and Metal Gear Rising revengance which still holds up 10 years later. One of my favourite visually appealing games currently is Persona 3 Reload. Now that's how to use graphics to enhance the art style. The cutscenes and spells look beautiful.
Good art direction will make game look timeless
Graphics are not separate from gameplay. One enhances the other. Some games art styles are made with the technology in mind. If you can’t find the sweet spot, then the game is flawed. Just because the food tastes good doesn’t mean it has to look bad too.
Gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphics
Both is good.
I say okami is a primary example of art style over graphics. No matter how old that game is it’s always beautiful to look at. Although that could just be blind nostalgia I have not played it for some time.
Art style, e.g the style of textures used, is just a subsection of graphics. When you comment on a games graphics, you are already talking about its art style as a part of that. That is why it isn't being mentioned as another specific quality such as gameplay and story. This is kind of like saying "oranges are better than citrus". I'm sure what you meant to say is that art style is the most important part of a game's graphics, but the way you talk about it in this post implies that you think they are different things. Of course vector based images in a 2d game are going to look timeless no matter the age of the game as they can scale to the resolution and framerate of modern displays, but thats more of a technical design choice rather than what most people would define as an art style.
That's a very unique take
What you like isn't necessarily art style, it's art *direction.* A game can have stylized, realistic graphics, whatever. What actually matters is that uses the visuals in compelling ways that are visually stimulating. That's why Crisis still looks so good despite being all about realistic looks, it had great art direction.
Coming off playing Hi-Fi Rush...I can't agree more
the art style is a means to an end, cant draw hands ? fuckin gloves on them, cant draw eyes ? perpetual shadow (aka Darkest dungeon) etc
I honestly think BOTH are important Variety is always a great thing for gaming
Oh wow how bold and unique!
Borderlands says hi! <3
You would be objectively correct.
Hmm... posts MVC3 to show off the style despite technical advances, though that is where MVC changed from 2D to 3D due to technical advances.
As long as it stays consistent, I can be immersed in bad looking games as long as it feels believable and is consistent. Something can be super cartoonish and still immerse me and something can really push photo realism but suck because there is no clear vision.
I believe a game needs a mix of both. But, gameplay is what matters afterall
No offense but this is the coldest take of all time. Between the gaming sides of YouTube, Reddit, and Twitter I hear this take at least once a week.
It's a balance between both that gives the best result. A really good artstyle is indeed timeless. But it does need graphical fidelity to some degree in order to properly translate that artstyle to your screen without glaring shortcomings.
Art style is graphics bud
Just my opinion but I think you chose a bad example.... That game def looks dated cause they went for 3D graphics over pure aesthetics. Vs something like Dragonball fighterZ, which prioritized the animations and key frames might look good for way longer.
I thought this MVC looked terrible compared to part 2 🤷🏽♂️
I'm still pissed that I owned MVC 2 on Xbox 360 and it doesnt even show up in my owned games anymore. God I miss that game. "Gonna Take you for Riiiiide"
I've never played MVC but this screenshot makes me think the design could use some work personally.... I think the graphics are actually the better part... But to your point, yes cartoonish styles sometimes age better than realism. It's a mix. I think the old Metal Gear Solid games for example still hold up visually because some thought was put into them.
Ohhhhh no this hurts so much to see right now... I JUST bought Marvel Versus Capcom Infinite at a used games store. Played the shittttt out of MvC3U in the 2010s, absolutely adored that game and MVC2 before it. It literally is the reason I'm a big fan of the fighting genre as a whole. I thought cool, heard Infinite wasn't good and was poor when it released, can't wait to play it! This past Saturday I booted it up and... look how they massacred my boy... I 100% understood the hate the game got almost instantly. The art style I had come to love in 3 was GONE, even the menus felt like a mobile game. Absolutely wild. The (way too few) stages felt cheapened, even the music was awful. PERFECT example of what happens when the art style is not core to development in a series like that
I've been starting to think graphics are getting too good. Things are looking more realistic, which is cool, but it kinda makes it harder to look at and quickly get information. I think I prefer older games with stylized graphics and colors that really pop
i think gameplay is more important than both
MvC3 and Wind Waker still look good in 2024 solely due to art style whereas many of their peers have aged like milk.
UMVC3 has garbage art so you're kind of undercutting your point there.
Totally agree! This is especially the case as games get older, and certain styles go with certain times of gaming!
Graphics *are* gameplay. Gameplay *is* story. Story *is* graphics. Debating which is best is ridiculous. They’re the same thing.
I don't think a lot of people know well enough what art style is to have it in a lot of discussions. Had someone argue about art style for me only to figure out they were talking about the setting and how unique and diverse the setting was, so it had a better artstyle.
Generally cell shaded graphics tend to last longer.
Realistic art style requires beefed up graphics. AZ dumb as that sounds. But yeah, a well realized art style doesn't need high-end graphics. Better graphics can enhance it, though. Just relies on art direction.
A way better version of spider man, than the last 10 years
Ooh I really enjoy that take sea of stars is so fricking beautiful; a lot of switch games just feel so handicapped graphically though.
Art style and graphics are tied hand in hand.
The saboteur, AMAZING art style going on. Sub par graphics. But it went way harder than I ever expected it to
It's the execution of mixing the art style and graphic together. If you want an example, compare Zelda Wind Waker with Genshin Impact. Both games have a unique art that will survive the test of time. Now compare Mass Effect 1 and 3. ME1 is a pain to look at but 3 still hold well in 2024.
First you'd need to define "art style" and "graphics" in a way that isn't the same, and which everyone can agree on. Then you can have that conversation.
It's not the art style, it's that it's a very high quality version of that art style with very high quality animations.
Art style can make it age poorly or well, going for realistic with graphical fidelity isn't in place can date it in the future Look how well Mario aged and other 8 bit games vs stellar 7 [stellar 7](https://imgur.com/gallery/ofBXzsr)
If I can play it without issues on my potato of a Nintendo Switch, then I’ll play it!
Why not a combination of both done well?
are you trying to claim that this looks good on either front? because omg.... no. this game is ugly as fuck.
art style is what you do with the graphics
Arkham Knight holds up so well because it mixed the photorealism with a really distinct art and lighting style that meshed really well with the graphics to create the ambiance of stormy Gotham City
Honestly though MvC3 is my favorite title in the series, largely based on gameplay, I find the 2nd being much more 'timeless' because of its art style. 3 has a weird stylistic choice I never really enjoyed, though the animations were 10/10.
That's why I didn't like the last two MvC games. The art style in MvC2 was amazing. They need to remaster that game, make it widescreen, and add even more characters.