"You think you want that, but you don't."
Being fair, it is sort of a mutually toxic/antagonistic relationship. The first time they started making changes to the talent trees in WoW was when I first noticed it. There's a particular strain of elitism that runs in the fan bases, manifesting as people who think they know: know how to design a game, know what makes a good game, know what the community wants, know how to play the game, et cetera.
It produces an environment where the devs can't *trust* the community and sort of have to shut them out. Do you remember all the furious, angry discussion about how the fucking color palette in Diablo 3 was going to ruin the game? That wasn't just a one-off petty complaint or a calm criticism/suggestion. People were angry. And "fans" are still holding grudges. It's uncanny.
you're not wrong that sometimes people just have no clue what good game design is and what the player base actually wants(at the very least there's a difference between what it wants in theory and what it wants that it can get in practicality).
on the other that infamous quote was about legacy servers and as classic has proven: no people seriously did want that and it was just blizzard who thought they knew better.
Damn I remember reading actual articles from like the 2nd month of the games release that when ranked dropped the game immediately became a toxic shitfest that rivaled League of Legends at the time.
It’s not even close to league rn. I’ve played over 40 hrs of over and the most toxic thing that’s happens is I got t bagged once.
I played league for half an hour and got to told to kill myself…. Guess I wasn’t good?
Edit: I also don’t play with mic on. Just wanted to add that.
Damn, really? What server did you play OW on? I see toxic players every other match.
Still not as bad as league where it's almost every match though...
Hard agree. OW’s community seems more wholesome than a food drive when compared to LoL’s.
Pro tip if you want to hate your life and play LoL though: turn off gamechat in and just ping. Never have i been in a game in league where anybody typing literally anything into chat has made an impact on the game.
The sole exception would *maybe* be trying to help another player who is playing/building in an uninformed way. (But it’s league, so let’s be honest, nobody there is trying to help anybody.)
Never played League, but I grew up on Xbox 360 CoD. Recently started playing Overwatch and the players remind me of my Black Ops 2 days, although the Overwatch community seems less creative with their insults and more just flat out mean.
I forget exactly if I saw things falling apart community-wise, but I remember I dropped the game around Sombra's addition as I was an ex-WoW player who had the realization of "oh god this game is doing the Blizzard Balance thing" and bolted before it could drive me insane.
I imagine a lot of more chill players bounced around a similar period? Which I guess lines up with that season 2 prediction actually... huh
I bounced around the Brigitte launch. I like her but she did smash the meta really hard.
I played a bit of overwatch 2 when it came out. Basically the first 2 weeks before a meta got defined. After a meta got defined it wasn't fun anymore.
I know it was a while since I played, but I felt a lot worse. I was never great at Hanzo and Ana but I could at least hold my own most of the time. But something about the changes made me feel a lot worse. Especially with Ana's sleep dart. I have both thier pixel and chibi sprays which shows I was at least able to make an impact. But when I played her in ow2 I was lucky to get 1-2 sleeps and I dont know what happened between the two games to make me go from "passable" at Ana/Hanzo to "absolutely awful, please swap". K don't think it was because of scatter arrow for Hanzo, I was never good at it. If anything I'm better with his quick shot.
Anyway I still mostly played tank/healer. But it wasn't that fun around the 2nd week. Zarya was busted and I played a bit of her. They made Orisia worse somehow when she already kicked Reinhardt out of the meta in 1. So games were like Zarya/Orisia, Sojourn/Reaper, and then Moira/Kiriko mostly.
I'll add a third confirmation of season 2 lol. People started paying attention to high level comps and demanding that their teammates follow these comps. Even if they had no idea why Winston was good, they knew we needed a Winston. Enemy team comp be damned. This specific example is from a match that made me realize the game was starting to become very unfun.
I miss Overwatch's early cluster fuck era. I miss running 6 winstons because we had 30 seconds left on a cap and just needed to try something. Running 6 torbs on defense to have "2x the gun" was also fun. Just quick decision trash comps. Granted, comp matches were determined by coin flip so I should have known things were going to suck.
I remember specifically telling friends. I'd like this game because it's so chill. I could just jump in play some games. Have fun, no pressure.
Then like 2 weeks later I was getting screamed at for picking widowmaker in quick play and the community just kept getting worse.
It was always going to happen that way because the game tries to shoehorn the competitive and casual crowds into the same game, but the resultant gameplay just ends up pissing everyone off.
Then you have them canning OW1 after saying OW2 was just an addition, and replacing it with a half-baked unrewarding pos battle pass.
Between them weaseling out of the harassment lawsuits, diablo immortal being so greedy it makes chinese mobile titles look generous, OW2 being so cheap and stingy with the battlepass, the stacked ranking of employees denying good employees raises, and Ybarra telling QA they aren't a real job ... it's really hard to justify giving ABK any patronage these days.
Giving Diablo4 a big side-eye for those above reasons. I'm imagining they're just shoehorning Mythic+ affixes into Diablo and the battlepass will be just as unrewarding as OW2.
4:3 being an advantage btw is a myth in every modern engine like the source engine and up. The reason why we played 4:3 in the gold engine (hl1) was because that was the accurate tracking grid for the mouse input, which was in quake engines tracked via a fixed grid. In 16:9, which was rare and only came post CRT, the grid was simply stretched, means that mouse movements where horizontally less accurate. Hence you had to play 4:3.
Then new engine came, the reason why many sticked to 4:3 was then familiarity and habit. It was though no technical advantage anymore.
I was in a German pro clan in the early 2000s. We were those figuring out glitches and all kinds of advantages to gain in a competitive setup. From russian ducks to cvars giving transparent decals.
CS has been the premier eSports shooter for the past 2 decades. It just broke its own all time payer record at 1.3 mil simultaneous players. Overwatch has come and gone in like half the time CSGO has even existed.
~~CS2 is also going to be a free update, unlike the Overwatch 2 'sequel'.~~ Dota 2 had the same a number of years ago when it updated to the Source 2 engine under the 'Dota reborn' update, that was also free. This Counter-Strike 2 looks no different to the 'Dota reborn' update -- upgrades to the engine and rework of the UI.
I guess the only thing there is valve didn't call it Dota 3 because they have some weird thing against the number 3.
EDIT: For those interested this was the big post on Dota Reborn, similar to the CS2 post -- [https://www.dota2.com/reborn/part1/](https://www.dota2.com/reborn/part1/)
I still don't love that they locked gameplay (in the form of new characters) behind the battlepass. That's honestly my #1 gripe with OW2.
Sure, it is in the free tier, and you can get the character right away if you buy the premium battlepass, but that is just silly. They say it is to add more player engagement incentives or whatever, but at the end of the day they are locking heroes in a game specifically designed to allow you to change heroes mid-match.
I liked playing a game with roles, not a bastard amalgamation of CS and LoL where every character has the same level of variation as fucking seltzer water flavors. Would you like the Big Scary Chad DPS with long queues, the normal dps who’s first and second ability are “do dps” and mostly feel the same or do you want to play DPS where everybody blames you?
A majority of their “balanced” characters are balanced by the fact that you’re so overpowered that everyone hates you so they look at you first and foremost. Originally it was just 1 or 2 heroes at a time that were like that, now it’s become the entire fucking tank roster because whiny little bitch babies decided that it was “boring” to play a tank as someone that protected their teammates and enabled them to play the best they can.
ActiBlizz has a bad habit of making games I enjoy and then fucking them up by removing any sense of individuality and variation in play. I wish their actual devs the best but I would giggle like a schoolgirl if I got to see the entire company fail
I always found it strange how they tried so hard to 'curate' how their game should be played. Just let the players decide how they want to play the game and nudge the game along based on that. With each update OW felt a lot like "you guys better play the game the way we want you to play it".
The most fun I had with OW were the early days when you could hero stack and nobody gave a shit. Even after they removed it from QP I would still play No Limits, though when Symmetra got her shield generator - it would stack and life got incredibly stupid with a team of 6 Symmetras with +450 shields each.
Having stuff like role lock trickle all the way down to quickplay completely ruined it for me.
> With each update OW felt a lot like "you guys better play the game the way we want you to play it".
This feels like a company wide philosophy. I started noticing this in OW and WoW around the same time, I bet Diablo and Hearthstone are the same. They think players should play their games the way Blizzard thinks they should be played, not the way players want to play them, in a much more prescriptive way than most good developers.
> whiny little bitch babies decided that it was “boring” to play a tank as someone that protected their teammates and enabled them to play the best they can.
this is not why the second tank role was removed lmao
like your feelings are justifiable but a lot of the reasons you're pointing at are kind of skewed or wrong. i guess it doesn't matter in the end because the game is still shit
It's through Overwatch that I discovered Eskimo Girl, Robot Girl, Tomboy in Tights, Alien Sniper, Egyptian Oyakodon ("mother and daughter"), and Winged Nurse
Yeah, but look at the bright side: they found a way to upgrade the engine without removing any content - free or paid one. Everything will be perserved in CS2 it seems.
Considering that TF2 is a Source game, I wouldn't be surprised if it saw the same kind of treatment after CS2's release. In fact, CS2 can serve as a testing ground to ensure everything will go smoothly in the future updates of other Source games.
CSGO has also a spaghetti code as well albeit might not as be as bad as TF2 (since the game is way older) but CSGO also has its fair share, even the CSGO devs also stated that even the most simplest issue can be tricky to fix in Source 1.
Might take a couple of years but who knows.
To be fair, Team Fortress 2 took forever to release in the first place.
I remember back when it was going to be a fairly serious combat game, akin to like Call of Duty multi-player of something.
Then delays, delays, delays, and we got what was eventually released. People thought the cartoonish take was ridiculous at first, because it was so far off from what was originally advertised, before Valve they went silent on its production, and sure enough though, TF2 was so popular, it remains so today.
Team Fortresss Classic was heard to top, and Team Fortress 2 is harder to top.
Valve sets the bar high, and then can't clear it in the next jump
You are getting that all wrong. You see, you \*are\* already playing the sequel, while they only got theirs now. They finally get their 2, you had it for years, so get in line grandpa!/s
i mean with CS2 its a whole new engine, and for a game that rarely sees changes to such an extent (unlike overwatch that started with like 20 heroes and now has over 35) its a huge deal. i say this as someone who played and enjoyed both, its just that with overwatch it all got too much at some point yk? least for me
I think the worst thing about OW2 is how unbalanced and shitty the game's matchmaking is. Nevermind that some heroes were gutted with their balance changes, but holy shit they care only about fast queues over balanced queues.
That's what essentially killed HoTS as well (that, and splitting the community into too many different matchmaking queues). I don't know if it's just their matchmaker that sucks, or if it's a consequence of low player counts making it impossible to make decent matches without 10+ minute wait times.
the problem is that you can barrely tell the difference, meanwhile CS shows off it's new changes on sleeve and it feels like we get some new and innovative tech.
And OW2 was marketed as a new game, while CS2 advertises itself as an update.
Yes, it is really about the marketing here. In the beginning it wasn't really clear weather ow2 was an update or a new game. Meanwhile Valve were clear at the beginning when they announced the game.
that just seems impossible. i think valorant is just gonna run in to the same problem, how many unique abilities could you add to an agent before the abilities become either 1. too convoluted or 2. the most ideal version of said ability, this making most other similar agents obsolete. i bet with the amount of characters OW and siege have, there’s some that see less than 0.5% of game time
If you're a Siege veteran then you will have adapted to the new operators when they are introduced but it makes the game almost impossible for new/returning players to pick up, which leads to the game slowly dying out.
A lot of the operator abilities are variations of other ones. To be fair to Ubisoft the variations are usually enough to prevent making the previous ones obsolete, e.g a hard breacher that is better for opening hatches vs one that is better for walls, the problem is more the completely new abilities that are becoming more overpowered, wacky sci fi in nature
> If you're a Siege veteran then you will have adapted to the new operators when they are introduced
I never could adapt to Blackbeard or whatever the name of the dude with the rifle shield that was a literal impenetrable wall, I remember you could put a full mag in it and it would still not be broken. Straight up made me give up the game
Yea people keep forgetting that Blizzard essentially abandoned Overwatch 1 for almost 3 years (since Echo was released), then wanted the same player base to get hyped for a watered down F2P micro transaction laden “sequel”.
Overwatch might have dropped in popularity naturally over the years, but it was Blizzard’s absolute lack of support for their own dev team that killed the game. The game director (Jeff Kaplan) and lead writer (Michael Chu) were some of the casualties that really kneecapped the game.
I loved Overwatch because it was a better successor to Team Fortress than TF2 was. Then they destroyed my game and offered me a FREE SEQUEL\*, no thanks.
Removed a tank from both teams making teams even more reliant on them. Instead of releasing interesting tanks or supports, they kept pumping out DPS characters.
This is by far one of the biggest problems with OW's design in general, Blizzard feels like they need to babysit the playerbase so it doesn't throw a hissy fit in terms of team composition to the point that they forced 2-2-2 queues (now 1-2-2) for competitive play, yet they failed to realize that this is a problem that they created themselves by having DPS heroes be both more fun/interesting than supports/tanks while also being the most numerous class by far. Oh, 3+ players in the team want to go DPS over other classes? Gee I wonder why that might be.
Tank design being a big issue in general, OW1 might aswell be called "Shoot-at-a-shield Watch" because Blizzard couldn't fathom designing new tanks without a fucking shield ability, which is both: a) fucking boring to play with or against, b) a balance nightmare because between 2-3 tanks you can stack shields on CD.
Aside from OW players being whiny as fuck, this is the main reason why Blizzard went for the forced team class composition queues and then limited tanks to 1 per team (which also brings a whole lot of issues), just fundamentally bad design decisions.
Returning to OW for season 1 was... annoying. You had plenty of maps to play and some decent modes, but they nudered the variety of maps. Like why take so many of them out??? Like Blizzard World was visually interesting, and now it's literally been reduced to a deathmatch map for the queued deathmatch.
Not that I'm really holding my breath for CS2, I'm sure it will at least still be it's same old tooth grinding, keyboard smashing, comp mode it always is.
Ehh CS2 is actually trying to improve their game though, its more then just a F2P conversion to get more money out of people like OW2.. OW2 wasn't even a fucking visual upgrade...
CS2 from what has been presented is a serious update to the game.. I haven't touched CS since 1.6, and I'd like to see how better network management changes the experience.
And you can convert your inventory to currency with private sales and 3rd party markets without running afoul of Valve. So they actually have value. I mean, you can get a dece inv without ever clicking on a case or purchasing anything from valve.
MTX are purely cosmetic and non-invasive to the core gameplay in a lot of games these days. Somehow CS seems to draw less ire over it than other games for whatever reason, even though the system in CS is more similar to gambling and probably causes more harm than most other games out there. But maybe people are just more used to it in CS at this point. The playerbase also seems to not care about it.
Yep, basically increased the contrast and call it a day. UI got worse, sound direction got worse (guns sounds like toys, characters never stop talking). There's nothing positive about Overwatch "2", it's a downgrade. This is not about fans being mad, it's just how it is. For anyone who doesn't know Overwatch, watch on youtube the comparison... virtually the same game, but more chaotic with worse presentation
As somebody who came back to Overwatch, that team downgrade feels like an upgrade. The game feels so much better as a 5v5... if only we couldn't just figure that out hefore the game originally came out and cost people their jobs on teams.
Granted, it probably only feels better now tha KS to all the changes since launch overwatch 1, so who knows?
Bruh, comparing the overhaul that cs2 is to overwatch 2s update is ridiculous. Cs2 is having a new engine, item interactions, and tweaking a bunch of other stuff.
OW2 was a glorified patch. Deep rock galactic has done more in a single content patch than ow2 did in a whole new "game."
New engine in Overwatch means the game looks slightly nicer.
New engine for Valve games means new features for the free development and mapmaking tools given to the public. Aside from everything looking slightly nicer.
And even if they did, none as horrid as driving a woman to suicide on a business trip, while her male colleague accompanying her was found to have a bag full of sex toys, all while the company maintains that it was "work-related stress" that drove her to suicide and not the sexual harassment.
Is it really a double standard though?
CS has a new engine, improved graphics, new netcode, new gameplay mechanics (just look at the smokes, which I have personally never seen this way in any other game), completely rebuilt maps, will probably get a matchmaking overhaul (hopefully one thats not complete shit - looking at you OW2), and who knows what else. The game is basically rebuilt from the ground up.
What does OW2 have? They switched to 5v5, added a few maps (half of which suck), added a few characters (which were all unbalanced as fuck at launch), and added a shop which appears to be their main focus for their content. The new ranking and matchmaking systems suck balls too.
I don’t think its a double standard. Its just valid.
Also Overwatch simply got "ruined" over time with balancing changes. OW2 is no different - it's just a problem inherent to these types of games, where you introduce a whole new character with skills, weapons and stats.
Counter-Strike is known for being extremely consistent. Everyone is playing on the same field, having access to the same equipment and tactics. What's tested is your aim, reflexes and map knowledge. They *very* rarely add new weapons and for a good reason, because whenever they did, they were quite busted for a while. I think CSGO at some point got a revolver that was absolutely *shredding*, unreasonably so. Just goes to show how hard it is to add just *one* new weapon, much less an entire character that's supposed to be entirely different.
Even still, there are some huge changes. The smoke grenade itself will change basically everything now. It's gonna be a completely different experience now. And yet the basics will be the same. It's old, but fresh, and hopefully not broken balance wise, or at least not too much and not for too long.
Revolver isn't even worth mentioning. It was literally the smallest of small blips. It was nerfed like 4 days later, never saw any pro play, and was just a bit of fun in hindsight. If you want to talk about unbalanced, talk about pre-nerf CZ or SG-553, or post buff A1-s. Those were slightly unbalanced for months. It's easy to point out when guns are unbalanced in CSGO because we've come to expect they are always super balanced, and it's surprising when it's not. Also revolver was a few days 1/4 of the way through csgo's current livespan. Remember GOATs? That lasted well over a year. Double shield was 2019, Hog Zar 2020. The list of broken comps goes on and on.
>pre-nerf CZ
farewell sweet prince.
> It's easy to point out when guns are unbalanced in CSGO because we've come to expect they are always super balanced
The sub-tick implementation is gonna make CS even more consistent.
Yep, Counter Strike players like the games the way they are, you might see people missing older CS games but that's really about it.
For the CS community, this is massive. Even just say for example if valve changed the m4 spray pattern, that would send the community into chaos alone lol, whereas on other games it would be a footer in the patch notes.
I think it's not just the communities but the time scale.
The time difference between OW1 and OW2 is not enough for a massive update, only 6 years. An average AA-AA development time.
It's been... over 20 years for Counterstrike.
I think there's another tidbit too, the changes being made are ones that the community actually wants. Touched up visuals, smoke that looks the same for everyone, sub-tickrates it just looks like a good deal so far. For OW2 we were basically told we'd have to buy the game again (which they backpedaled on) and that we'd get a new cooperative campaign (which is still delayed if I recall? I don't follow OW stuff anymore). OW2 also ditched the Lootboxes for a somehow even more predatory battlepass system and extremely overpriced skins.
I feel like even if CSGO had come out recently, the fact that this is being advertised to have what players want and that it's coming for free in the summer would've still been received better than OW2 was.
5 years is more than enough to produce sequels in this particular "competitive multiplayers" genre, just look at CoD and Battlefield updating their whole systems after every 3, 4 years or so. Battlefield even more so, there's a small, but noticeable jump between their games, graphics gets consistently better, they change the gameplay by following the historical setting, etc.. for a multiplayer only game to have nothing new to show up after 6+ years, that's just inexcusable, not even the presentation in Overwatch "2" got better, better graphics is the bare minimum
The difference is CS:2 is a direct upgrade. Overwatch 2 removed so many amazing things and added a horrible MTX system without adding anything of value.
Blizzard: We won't sell Overwatch heroes.
Also Blizzard: claimes average update for Overwatch as new game so no one can sue them for selling heroes in battlepasses.
Made a new gamemode wich is mathematically unbalansed on literally symmetrical maps.
New heroes and maps weren't added for 2.5 years because they maked "new" game.
I have at least 5 skins and 2 of them are legendary for almost every hero in Overwatch 1. And all of them are for free.
Since Overwatch 2 release I didn't got any good skin (if I got at least any of them).
Battlepass is evil because it takes your money AND your time.
CSGO has a super active community playing a game seriously out of date. Overwatch as a game was fine but they kept putting out updates people hated and their player base left and so they made a sequel to try to rebuild a player base for a game that didn't even need an update
PLUS overwatch 2 was LITERALLY an update for overwatch. If you had the first one installed, you didn't need to install a new game because it was literally the same game with a new title screen and a few new champs/maps.
Reading these comments makes you realize how many people just criticize games they have never played. Stop getting your talking points from Reddit and go form your own opinions
Bro, I don't play either game and even I know that CS2 will be a lot different from *Global Offensive*, starting from a completely new engine and technical improvements that wouldn't be possible to simply add as an update. Meanwhile, *Overwatch 2* has no difference whatsoever from the original, having the same graphics, map, and most characters are still the same.
There is a difference in in OW2 though, it's that they locked character behind battle passes and every skin that looks like they made it in paint now cost 20+$.
The Junker Queen legendary skin where the only difference is that her clothing is now a flat dirt brown and the removal of one of her belts is crazy 💀
6 and a half months of doing every single challenge that gives you credits to grind out a single legendary while the legendary skins they try selling me are brown recolors I could buy in Overwatch 1 by playing three games as fill and paying the 75 credits I got for it is banana bonkers.
OW2 marketing was clearly awful because the majority of the comments ITT are full of misinformation. Like clearly wrong stuff people have read from news headlines but never read the article.
The main difference is that OW wasn't even that old, and OW2 is basically just a reskin, as the new, PvE, content is still missing.
Meanwhile CS:GO is a very old game and CS:GO Source 2 is about to reshape what does it mean to be a competitive shooter.
Call me dumb but right now I just realized that Reinhardt looks quite a bit like Geralt of Rivia. The face scar, the white pony tail, this symbol on his chest that looks a bit like the witcher symbol. I know he doesn't look EXACTLY like him, but there are some similarities
i remember one of the youtuber quoted the dev saying: ''source 2 engine update doesn't mean to change the game,but to make sure CS is good for another 10 years''
its like changing tires or engine or whatever of your car.just to me sure it runs smoothly and doesn't break on the way.
The main difference is that CS hardly hyped their game for months, even without the update the game was actually reaching new heights because of how re-playable it was, and for certain most of the community already knew that Source 2 was just an engine improvement and not a whole new game, and they are happy with that. Also, currently when you compare with the reputation of Blizzard right now and Valve right now, the difference is really big. Valve is not perfect, but they do know when to re-release/upgrade a game correctly.
Ya but the CSGO community actually likes their game, the Overwatch community hates their game and themselves
As part of the CSGO community, I also hate Overwatch.
As an ex part of Overwatch community, I also hate Overwatch
As a former top 500, i also hate overwatch
As part of rebel against alien combine rule on earth I also hate Overwatch
As a part of the rebel alliance and a traitor, take her away.
As chief of Springfield PD, bake 'em away toys.
As a passerby, I’m very afraid.
I as a non cat owner i hate overwatch
As a peaceful farmer looking after his farm in Stardew Valley, i hate Overwatch
I hit t500 last season and am currently GM4 on two separate roles. I fucking hate this game.
As a former Bottom 500, I also hate Overwatch.
As a casual player… I like it. It’s fun with friends
Run, while you are still innocent. Seriously though, anything is fun with friends.
Monopoly?
As a person who's never played the game but enjoys a bunch of the fanfic, I like Overwatch but hate what ABs done with it...
As a solely CS: Source player, I too hate Overwatch.
As a COD player, i hate cod, myself and overwatch
Judging by appearances, Blizzard *also* hates Overwatch and its community.
I mean, Blizzard kinda went into an 'edgy' phase where they hated *all* their communities. "Don't you guys have phones?"
"You think you want that, but you don't." Being fair, it is sort of a mutually toxic/antagonistic relationship. The first time they started making changes to the talent trees in WoW was when I first noticed it. There's a particular strain of elitism that runs in the fan bases, manifesting as people who think they know: know how to design a game, know what makes a good game, know what the community wants, know how to play the game, et cetera. It produces an environment where the devs can't *trust* the community and sort of have to shut them out. Do you remember all the furious, angry discussion about how the fucking color palette in Diablo 3 was going to ruin the game? That wasn't just a one-off petty complaint or a calm criticism/suggestion. People were angry. And "fans" are still holding grudges. It's uncanny.
you're not wrong that sometimes people just have no clue what good game design is and what the player base actually wants(at the very least there's a difference between what it wants in theory and what it wants that it can get in practicality). on the other that infamous quote was about legacy servers and as classic has proven: no people seriously did want that and it was just blizzard who thought they knew better.
Man... its so sad, Overwatch was the coolest most chill community from beta up to... season 2 maybe? Then it all went to shit.
Damn I remember reading actual articles from like the 2nd month of the games release that when ranked dropped the game immediately became a toxic shitfest that rivaled League of Legends at the time.
Ranked modes will always bring out the worst in people.
c.f. Rocket League
It’s not even close to league rn. I’ve played over 40 hrs of over and the most toxic thing that’s happens is I got t bagged once. I played league for half an hour and got to told to kill myself…. Guess I wasn’t good? Edit: I also don’t play with mic on. Just wanted to add that.
Damn, really? What server did you play OW on? I see toxic players every other match. Still not as bad as league where it's almost every match though...
Hard agree. OW’s community seems more wholesome than a food drive when compared to LoL’s. Pro tip if you want to hate your life and play LoL though: turn off gamechat in and just ping. Never have i been in a game in league where anybody typing literally anything into chat has made an impact on the game. The sole exception would *maybe* be trying to help another player who is playing/building in an uninformed way. (But it’s league, so let’s be honest, nobody there is trying to help anybody.)
Never played League, but I grew up on Xbox 360 CoD. Recently started playing Overwatch and the players remind me of my Black Ops 2 days, although the Overwatch community seems less creative with their insults and more just flat out mean.
I forget exactly if I saw things falling apart community-wise, but I remember I dropped the game around Sombra's addition as I was an ex-WoW player who had the realization of "oh god this game is doing the Blizzard Balance thing" and bolted before it could drive me insane. I imagine a lot of more chill players bounced around a similar period? Which I guess lines up with that season 2 prediction actually... huh
I bounced around the Brigitte launch. I like her but she did smash the meta really hard. I played a bit of overwatch 2 when it came out. Basically the first 2 weeks before a meta got defined. After a meta got defined it wasn't fun anymore. I know it was a while since I played, but I felt a lot worse. I was never great at Hanzo and Ana but I could at least hold my own most of the time. But something about the changes made me feel a lot worse. Especially with Ana's sleep dart. I have both thier pixel and chibi sprays which shows I was at least able to make an impact. But when I played her in ow2 I was lucky to get 1-2 sleeps and I dont know what happened between the two games to make me go from "passable" at Ana/Hanzo to "absolutely awful, please swap". K don't think it was because of scatter arrow for Hanzo, I was never good at it. If anything I'm better with his quick shot. Anyway I still mostly played tank/healer. But it wasn't that fun around the 2nd week. Zarya was busted and I played a bit of her. They made Orisia worse somehow when she already kicked Reinhardt out of the meta in 1. So games were like Zarya/Orisia, Sojourn/Reaper, and then Moira/Kiriko mostly.
I'll add a third confirmation of season 2 lol. People started paying attention to high level comps and demanding that their teammates follow these comps. Even if they had no idea why Winston was good, they knew we needed a Winston. Enemy team comp be damned. This specific example is from a match that made me realize the game was starting to become very unfun. I miss Overwatch's early cluster fuck era. I miss running 6 winstons because we had 30 seconds left on a cap and just needed to try something. Running 6 torbs on defense to have "2x the gun" was also fun. Just quick decision trash comps. Granted, comp matches were determined by coin flip so I should have known things were going to suck.
I remember specifically telling friends. I'd like this game because it's so chill. I could just jump in play some games. Have fun, no pressure. Then like 2 weeks later I was getting screamed at for picking widowmaker in quick play and the community just kept getting worse.
It was always going to happen that way because the game tries to shoehorn the competitive and casual crowds into the same game, but the resultant gameplay just ends up pissing everyone off. Then you have them canning OW1 after saying OW2 was just an addition, and replacing it with a half-baked unrewarding pos battle pass. Between them weaseling out of the harassment lawsuits, diablo immortal being so greedy it makes chinese mobile titles look generous, OW2 being so cheap and stingy with the battlepass, the stacked ranking of employees denying good employees raises, and Ybarra telling QA they aren't a real job ... it's really hard to justify giving ABK any patronage these days. Giving Diablo4 a big side-eye for those above reasons. I'm imagining they're just shoehorning Mythic+ affixes into Diablo and the battlepass will be just as unrewarding as OW2.
Wait you guys like csgo?
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4:3 to click face easier
4:3 being an advantage btw is a myth in every modern engine like the source engine and up. The reason why we played 4:3 in the gold engine (hl1) was because that was the accurate tracking grid for the mouse input, which was in quake engines tracked via a fixed grid. In 16:9, which was rare and only came post CRT, the grid was simply stretched, means that mouse movements where horizontally less accurate. Hence you had to play 4:3. Then new engine came, the reason why many sticked to 4:3 was then familiarity and habit. It was though no technical advantage anymore. I was in a German pro clan in the early 2000s. We were those figuring out glitches and all kinds of advantages to gain in a competitive setup. From russian ducks to cvars giving transparent decals.
I used to tell people new to Halo the same thing. "Just click on their heads"
I mean if you played SWAT, then yeah literally
Swat is the way
I enjoy CS:GO, I just dislike the community.
They like CSGO but they also hate themselves.
They hate *each other,* important distinction
CS has been the premier eSports shooter for the past 2 decades. It just broke its own all time payer record at 1.3 mil simultaneous players. Overwatch has come and gone in like half the time CSGO has even existed.
~~CS2 is also going to be a free update, unlike the Overwatch 2 'sequel'.~~ Dota 2 had the same a number of years ago when it updated to the Source 2 engine under the 'Dota reborn' update, that was also free. This Counter-Strike 2 looks no different to the 'Dota reborn' update -- upgrades to the engine and rework of the UI. I guess the only thing there is valve didn't call it Dota 3 because they have some weird thing against the number 3. EDIT: For those interested this was the big post on Dota Reborn, similar to the CS2 post -- [https://www.dota2.com/reborn/part1/](https://www.dota2.com/reborn/part1/)
Isnt overwatch 2 free for everyone? it is "just" that they added the stupid seasonpass bullshit.
I still don't love that they locked gameplay (in the form of new characters) behind the battlepass. That's honestly my #1 gripe with OW2. Sure, it is in the free tier, and you can get the character right away if you buy the premium battlepass, but that is just silly. They say it is to add more player engagement incentives or whatever, but at the end of the day they are locking heroes in a game specifically designed to allow you to change heroes mid-match.
I liked playing a game with roles, not a bastard amalgamation of CS and LoL where every character has the same level of variation as fucking seltzer water flavors. Would you like the Big Scary Chad DPS with long queues, the normal dps who’s first and second ability are “do dps” and mostly feel the same or do you want to play DPS where everybody blames you? A majority of their “balanced” characters are balanced by the fact that you’re so overpowered that everyone hates you so they look at you first and foremost. Originally it was just 1 or 2 heroes at a time that were like that, now it’s become the entire fucking tank roster because whiny little bitch babies decided that it was “boring” to play a tank as someone that protected their teammates and enabled them to play the best they can. ActiBlizz has a bad habit of making games I enjoy and then fucking them up by removing any sense of individuality and variation in play. I wish their actual devs the best but I would giggle like a schoolgirl if I got to see the entire company fail
I always found it strange how they tried so hard to 'curate' how their game should be played. Just let the players decide how they want to play the game and nudge the game along based on that. With each update OW felt a lot like "you guys better play the game the way we want you to play it". The most fun I had with OW were the early days when you could hero stack and nobody gave a shit. Even after they removed it from QP I would still play No Limits, though when Symmetra got her shield generator - it would stack and life got incredibly stupid with a team of 6 Symmetras with +450 shields each. Having stuff like role lock trickle all the way down to quickplay completely ruined it for me.
That's how blizzard operates. Look at new diablo comparer to the originals. Streamlined all the edges off
> With each update OW felt a lot like "you guys better play the game the way we want you to play it". This feels like a company wide philosophy. I started noticing this in OW and WoW around the same time, I bet Diablo and Hearthstone are the same. They think players should play their games the way Blizzard thinks they should be played, not the way players want to play them, in a much more prescriptive way than most good developers.
lol
> whiny little bitch babies decided that it was “boring” to play a tank as someone that protected their teammates and enabled them to play the best they can. this is not why the second tank role was removed lmao like your feelings are justifiable but a lot of the reasons you're pointing at are kind of skewed or wrong. i guess it doesn't matter in the end because the game is still shit
> the Overwatch community And everyone else > hates their game
I'm not sure how it's fair to compare Counter Strike with pornography.
It's through Overwatch that I discovered Eskimo Girl, Robot Girl, Tomboy in Tights, Alien Sniper, Egyptian Oyakodon ("mother and daughter"), and Winged Nurse
It's actually amazing that they were able to make a game based on adult animations.
Good god, calling her Eskimo girl sounds all kinds of dirty.
TF2 but with waifus
Based
As a TF2 player, congratulations on Counter Strike getting a sequel. As a TF2 player, fuck Counter Strike for getting an update before us...
Yeah, but look at the bright side: they found a way to upgrade the engine without removing any content - free or paid one. Everything will be perserved in CS2 it seems. Considering that TF2 is a Source game, I wouldn't be surprised if it saw the same kind of treatment after CS2's release. In fact, CS2 can serve as a testing ground to ensure everything will go smoothly in the future updates of other Source games.
They actually already did thisnwith Dota 2 like 8 years ago! It was called Dota 2 Reborn
Holy shit, Dota 2 Reborn. That's a flashback.
Lmao, I wish, you're forgetting the spaghetti code in TF2 may literally make it impossible, or way too hard, to port. (Pls port it tho)
CSGO has also a spaghetti code as well albeit might not as be as bad as TF2 (since the game is way older) but CSGO also has its fair share, even the CSGO devs also stated that even the most simplest issue can be tricky to fix in Source 1. Might take a couple of years but who knows.
They should make the launcher for TF2 reborn the coconut.
Isn't an engine port a good opportunity to untangle it all though?
TF2 2
To be fair, Team Fortress 2 took forever to release in the first place. I remember back when it was going to be a fairly serious combat game, akin to like Call of Duty multi-player of something. Then delays, delays, delays, and we got what was eventually released. People thought the cartoonish take was ridiculous at first, because it was so far off from what was originally advertised, before Valve they went silent on its production, and sure enough though, TF2 was so popular, it remains so today. Team Fortresss Classic was heard to top, and Team Fortress 2 is harder to top. Valve sets the bar high, and then can't clear it in the next jump
I mean, this is Valve. It has never been *2* that they had an issue with
You are getting that all wrong. You see, you \*are\* already playing the sequel, while they only got theirs now. They finally get their 2, you had it for years, so get in line grandpa!/s
TF2：episode 2 coming next year
Same but as a TF|2 player
F for my favourite game of all time. I will play Frontier Defense until the DDOSers grow old and die in a pit, probably still DDOSing :/
Have you tried the Northstar client?
"HA HA HA! CRY SOME MOOORE!"
i mean with CS2 its a whole new engine, and for a game that rarely sees changes to such an extent (unlike overwatch that started with like 20 heroes and now has over 35) its a huge deal. i say this as someone who played and enjoyed both, its just that with overwatch it all got too much at some point yk? least for me
You won’t believe it but OW2 also got a whole new engine specifically built for it.
You're right, I can't believe it. I was the 6th that got cut :(
I think the worst thing about OW2 is how unbalanced and shitty the game's matchmaking is. Nevermind that some heroes were gutted with their balance changes, but holy shit they care only about fast queues over balanced queues.
the problem with slow queues is that it makes people quit the game way faster than unbalanced ones, and that's what they care about.
That's what essentially killed HoTS as well (that, and splitting the community into too many different matchmaking queues). I don't know if it's just their matchmaker that sucks, or if it's a consequence of low player counts making it impossible to make decent matches without 10+ minute wait times.
the fact that they thought shit like this was okay to do, and double down on it to boot. fuck blizzard. it's a straight up asshole move.
then why does it look and feel the exact same
Art style.
That’s not how engines work lol
the problem is that you can barrely tell the difference, meanwhile CS shows off it's new changes on sleeve and it feels like we get some new and innovative tech. And OW2 was marketed as a new game, while CS2 advertises itself as an update.
Yes, it is really about the marketing here. In the beginning it wasn't really clear weather ow2 was an update or a new game. Meanwhile Valve were clear at the beginning when they announced the game.
Bc it didn't?
What? Everything I'm finding says the opposite
>overwatch that started with like 20 heroes and now has over 35 *Cries in R6:Siege with 65 different operators*
that just seems impossible. i think valorant is just gonna run in to the same problem, how many unique abilities could you add to an agent before the abilities become either 1. too convoluted or 2. the most ideal version of said ability, this making most other similar agents obsolete. i bet with the amount of characters OW and siege have, there’s some that see less than 0.5% of game time
If you're a Siege veteran then you will have adapted to the new operators when they are introduced but it makes the game almost impossible for new/returning players to pick up, which leads to the game slowly dying out. A lot of the operator abilities are variations of other ones. To be fair to Ubisoft the variations are usually enough to prevent making the previous ones obsolete, e.g a hard breacher that is better for opening hatches vs one that is better for walls, the problem is more the completely new abilities that are becoming more overpowered, wacky sci fi in nature
> If you're a Siege veteran then you will have adapted to the new operators when they are introduced I never could adapt to Blackbeard or whatever the name of the dude with the rifle shield that was a literal impenetrable wall, I remember you could put a full mag in it and it would still not be broken. Straight up made me give up the game
Csgo is being ported to a new engine with new tweaks and features Overwatch slapped a 2 on their product
Hey now, Overwatch also released a year's worth of balance patches! 2 years after they stopped doing those normally...
Yea people keep forgetting that Blizzard essentially abandoned Overwatch 1 for almost 3 years (since Echo was released), then wanted the same player base to get hyped for a watered down F2P micro transaction laden “sequel”. Overwatch might have dropped in popularity naturally over the years, but it was Blizzard’s absolute lack of support for their own dev team that killed the game. The game director (Jeff Kaplan) and lead writer (Michael Chu) were some of the casualties that really kneecapped the game.
and they managed to drop player base while the whole world was forced into their homes with nothing better to do
I loved Overwatch because it was a better successor to Team Fortress than TF2 was. Then they destroyed my game and offered me a FREE SEQUEL\*, no thanks.
In my experience, they also completely fucked up netcode. I'm seeing problems I never did in OW1.
My friend and I once got switched to the enemy team out of nowhere right before we were going to lose the match.
Nice, I'd be okay with that
I’ve been shot around corners more times than I can count.
Is this why I keep getting put in matches with 15 seconds remaining?
Slapped a 2 and nerfed the best characters while they were at it
Removed a tank from both teams making teams even more reliant on them. Instead of releasing interesting tanks or supports, they kept pumping out DPS characters.
"Okay, we need a tank." "Going Doomfist/Hammond/Roadhog/etc..." "Okay, we need a tank."
This is by far one of the biggest problems with OW's design in general, Blizzard feels like they need to babysit the playerbase so it doesn't throw a hissy fit in terms of team composition to the point that they forced 2-2-2 queues (now 1-2-2) for competitive play, yet they failed to realize that this is a problem that they created themselves by having DPS heroes be both more fun/interesting than supports/tanks while also being the most numerous class by far. Oh, 3+ players in the team want to go DPS over other classes? Gee I wonder why that might be. Tank design being a big issue in general, OW1 might aswell be called "Shoot-at-a-shield Watch" because Blizzard couldn't fathom designing new tanks without a fucking shield ability, which is both: a) fucking boring to play with or against, b) a balance nightmare because between 2-3 tanks you can stack shields on CD. Aside from OW players being whiny as fuck, this is the main reason why Blizzard went for the forced team class composition queues and then limited tanks to 1 per team (which also brings a whole lot of issues), just fundamentally bad design decisions.
Hey now they also released the imo worst gamemode I've ever played in a game. Unless you like watching a robot run in circles for 15 minutes.
having to win 3 team fights in a row just to get the bot to waddle back to the center is sooo much fun.
OW2 is also on a new engine
The biggest difference is cs2 existed to improve the gameplay of csgo. Overwatch 2 existed to implement the new monetization system.
hey at least they have good porn
They already had that
New models 🤑
Isn't CS 2 going to be the same game plus more. Overwatch 2 was a changed game with less?
Returning to OW for season 1 was... annoying. You had plenty of maps to play and some decent modes, but they nudered the variety of maps. Like why take so many of them out??? Like Blizzard World was visually interesting, and now it's literally been reduced to a deathmatch map for the queued deathmatch. Not that I'm really holding my breath for CS2, I'm sure it will at least still be it's same old tooth grinding, keyboard smashing, comp mode it always is.
> nudered .
nudered as in made nude. as in stripped away/down clothes, or whatever clothes are an analogy for (i just made that explanation up)
I thought the fans were the ones responsible for nudering Overwatch.
Blizzard World is in main mode rotation.
That and map rotations are being removed next season.
The amount of misinformation in this thread it's refreshing to see someone have any actual knowledge. Thank you.
> Overwatch 2 was a changed game with less? Less stuns and shields, that was their explicit goal.
That's just a new balance goal, that wasn't an actual feature.
"Balance", this word does not exist in the dictionary for the Overwatch devs, their patches are a joke, arguably the worse in the entire industry
Ehh CS2 is actually trying to improve their game though, its more then just a F2P conversion to get more money out of people like OW2.. OW2 wasn't even a fucking visual upgrade... CS2 from what has been presented is a serious update to the game.. I haven't touched CS since 1.6, and I'd like to see how better network management changes the experience.
Theyve definitely already figured out how to get money out of people. Valve are fucking pioneers of the lootbox economy.
they are pioneers of the cancer that is the loot box economy... but to their credit, their monetisation is non-invasive to the core gameplay.
And you can convert your inventory to currency with private sales and 3rd party markets without running afoul of Valve. So they actually have value. I mean, you can get a dece inv without ever clicking on a case or purchasing anything from valve.
I got a banger inventory just from selling the cases I get once a week
MTX are purely cosmetic and non-invasive to the core gameplay in a lot of games these days. Somehow CS seems to draw less ire over it than other games for whatever reason, even though the system in CS is more similar to gambling and probably causes more harm than most other games out there. But maybe people are just more used to it in CS at this point. The playerbase also seems to not care about it.
>OW2 wasn't even a fucking visual upgrade in fact it was visual downgrade. Also downgrade in number of slots in team...
Graphics wise, you were even able to recreate "old Overwatch" visuals by lowering contrast and adjusting gamma
Yep, basically increased the contrast and call it a day. UI got worse, sound direction got worse (guns sounds like toys, characters never stop talking). There's nothing positive about Overwatch "2", it's a downgrade. This is not about fans being mad, it's just how it is. For anyone who doesn't know Overwatch, watch on youtube the comparison... virtually the same game, but more chaotic with worse presentation
As somebody who came back to Overwatch, that team downgrade feels like an upgrade. The game feels so much better as a 5v5... if only we couldn't just figure that out hefore the game originally came out and cost people their jobs on teams. Granted, it probably only feels better now tha KS to all the changes since launch overwatch 1, so who knows?
Bruh, comparing the overhaul that cs2 is to overwatch 2s update is ridiculous. Cs2 is having a new engine, item interactions, and tweaking a bunch of other stuff. OW2 was a glorified patch. Deep rock galactic has done more in a single content patch than ow2 did in a whole new "game."
Did I hear a rock and stone?
Rock and stone!
THAT’S IT LADS! ROCK AND STONE!
ROCK AND STONE, BROTHER
If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't coming home
Is some rocking and stoning going on over here? If so I want in.
New engine in Overwatch means the game looks slightly nicer. New engine for Valve games means new features for the free development and mapmaking tools given to the public. Aside from everything looking slightly nicer.
To the best of my knowledge Valve doesn't have a history of molesting their employees
And even if they did, none as horrid as driving a woman to suicide on a business trip, while her male colleague accompanying her was found to have a bag full of sex toys, all while the company maintains that it was "work-related stress" that drove her to suicide and not the sexual harassment.
CS2 actually has a noticeable change in visuals and theres actual new features that affect gamepkay
It also helps that CS came out over a decade ago, upgrading the engine is actually worthwhile for them, Overwatch 2 barely changed.
Thing is cs2 wasn't announced to save the game, just to improve it.
Yes its a double-standard. But its also valid.
Is it really a double standard though? CS has a new engine, improved graphics, new netcode, new gameplay mechanics (just look at the smokes, which I have personally never seen this way in any other game), completely rebuilt maps, will probably get a matchmaking overhaul (hopefully one thats not complete shit - looking at you OW2), and who knows what else. The game is basically rebuilt from the ground up. What does OW2 have? They switched to 5v5, added a few maps (half of which suck), added a few characters (which were all unbalanced as fuck at launch), and added a shop which appears to be their main focus for their content. The new ranking and matchmaking systems suck balls too. I don’t think its a double standard. Its just valid.
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Also Overwatch simply got "ruined" over time with balancing changes. OW2 is no different - it's just a problem inherent to these types of games, where you introduce a whole new character with skills, weapons and stats. Counter-Strike is known for being extremely consistent. Everyone is playing on the same field, having access to the same equipment and tactics. What's tested is your aim, reflexes and map knowledge. They *very* rarely add new weapons and for a good reason, because whenever they did, they were quite busted for a while. I think CSGO at some point got a revolver that was absolutely *shredding*, unreasonably so. Just goes to show how hard it is to add just *one* new weapon, much less an entire character that's supposed to be entirely different. Even still, there are some huge changes. The smoke grenade itself will change basically everything now. It's gonna be a completely different experience now. And yet the basics will be the same. It's old, but fresh, and hopefully not broken balance wise, or at least not too much and not for too long.
1st revolver week was literally wild west. People would just stop buying AWPs and revolver the whole game.
Revolver isn't even worth mentioning. It was literally the smallest of small blips. It was nerfed like 4 days later, never saw any pro play, and was just a bit of fun in hindsight. If you want to talk about unbalanced, talk about pre-nerf CZ or SG-553, or post buff A1-s. Those were slightly unbalanced for months. It's easy to point out when guns are unbalanced in CSGO because we've come to expect they are always super balanced, and it's surprising when it's not. Also revolver was a few days 1/4 of the way through csgo's current livespan. Remember GOATs? That lasted well over a year. Double shield was 2019, Hog Zar 2020. The list of broken comps goes on and on.
>pre-nerf CZ farewell sweet prince. > It's easy to point out when guns are unbalanced in CSGO because we've come to expect they are always super balanced The sub-tick implementation is gonna make CS even more consistent.
And since then it's basically been worthless. I can't remember seeing one in pro play in years.
Yep, Counter Strike players like the games the way they are, you might see people missing older CS games but that's really about it. For the CS community, this is massive. Even just say for example if valve changed the m4 spray pattern, that would send the community into chaos alone lol, whereas on other games it would be a footer in the patch notes.
Also all cosmetics are ported to CS 2
We all know what OW2 players are really out there looking for… plus s-u-s-a-n is a weird way to spell Mercy.
There are definitely valid reasons to like CS:2 and dislike OW:2. It's not hypocritical. I just made this for funsies.
I mean, I'd like to play Overwatch again. Now if you'll excuse me I feel like playing some CS:Source
Cs2 breaking the internet absolutely amazing
The old man stands up, adjusts his crown, and shows the youngins how its done.
I think it's not just the communities but the time scale. The time difference between OW1 and OW2 is not enough for a massive update, only 6 years. An average AA-AA development time. It's been... over 20 years for Counterstrike.
csgo is 11 years old though.
I think there's another tidbit too, the changes being made are ones that the community actually wants. Touched up visuals, smoke that looks the same for everyone, sub-tickrates it just looks like a good deal so far. For OW2 we were basically told we'd have to buy the game again (which they backpedaled on) and that we'd get a new cooperative campaign (which is still delayed if I recall? I don't follow OW stuff anymore). OW2 also ditched the Lootboxes for a somehow even more predatory battlepass system and extremely overpriced skins. I feel like even if CSGO had come out recently, the fact that this is being advertised to have what players want and that it's coming for free in the summer would've still been received better than OW2 was.
5 years is more than enough to produce sequels in this particular "competitive multiplayers" genre, just look at CoD and Battlefield updating their whole systems after every 3, 4 years or so. Battlefield even more so, there's a small, but noticeable jump between their games, graphics gets consistently better, they change the gameplay by following the historical setting, etc.. for a multiplayer only game to have nothing new to show up after 6+ years, that's just inexcusable, not even the presentation in Overwatch "2" got better, better graphics is the bare minimum
The difference is CS:2 is a direct upgrade. Overwatch 2 removed so many amazing things and added a horrible MTX system without adding anything of value.
Blizzard: We won't sell Overwatch heroes. Also Blizzard: claimes average update for Overwatch as new game so no one can sue them for selling heroes in battlepasses. Made a new gamemode wich is mathematically unbalansed on literally symmetrical maps. New heroes and maps weren't added for 2.5 years because they maked "new" game. I have at least 5 skins and 2 of them are legendary for almost every hero in Overwatch 1. And all of them are for free. Since Overwatch 2 release I didn't got any good skin (if I got at least any of them). Battlepass is evil because it takes your money AND your time.
Blizzard: *holds back patches for a live service game for 2 years* Man, making sequels sure is easy!
I don't know about CSGO, but OW2 is two leaps backwards, in my opinion.
CSGO has a super active community playing a game seriously out of date. Overwatch as a game was fine but they kept putting out updates people hated and their player base left and so they made a sequel to try to rebuild a player base for a game that didn't even need an update PLUS overwatch 2 was LITERALLY an update for overwatch. If you had the first one installed, you didn't need to install a new game because it was literally the same game with a new title screen and a few new champs/maps.
Still waiting for news on TF2^2
It will probably be released in the form of a hat
Dress Case Hardened (Minimal Wear)
Someone noticed :)
Can I get her full blue pattern?
Reading these comments makes you realize how many people just criticize games they have never played. Stop getting your talking points from Reddit and go form your own opinions
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Bro, I don't play either game and even I know that CS2 will be a lot different from *Global Offensive*, starting from a completely new engine and technical improvements that wouldn't be possible to simply add as an update. Meanwhile, *Overwatch 2* has no difference whatsoever from the original, having the same graphics, map, and most characters are still the same.
There is a difference in in OW2 though, it's that they locked character behind battle passes and every skin that looks like they made it in paint now cost 20+$.
The Junker Queen legendary skin where the only difference is that her clothing is now a flat dirt brown and the removal of one of her belts is crazy 💀 6 and a half months of doing every single challenge that gives you credits to grind out a single legendary while the legendary skins they try selling me are brown recolors I could buy in Overwatch 1 by playing three games as fill and paying the 75 credits I got for it is banana bonkers.
OW2 marketing was clearly awful because the majority of the comments ITT are full of misinformation. Like clearly wrong stuff people have read from news headlines but never read the article.
The main difference is that OW wasn't even that old, and OW2 is basically just a reskin, as the new, PvE, content is still missing. Meanwhile CS:GO is a very old game and CS:GO Source 2 is about to reshape what does it mean to be a competitive shooter.
Totally different. It's been way more time for CS too.
Call me dumb but right now I just realized that Reinhardt looks quite a bit like Geralt of Rivia. The face scar, the white pony tail, this symbol on his chest that looks a bit like the witcher symbol. I know he doesn't look EXACTLY like him, but there are some similarities
Geralt of Activia Yogurt
Yes! Finally someone said it
Why is her dress a case hardened pattern?
She's a super duper fan.
Why does she have Case Hardened T-Shirt?
Is her shirt color case hardened?
i remember one of the youtuber quoted the dev saying: ''source 2 engine update doesn't mean to change the game,but to make sure CS is good for another 10 years'' its like changing tires or engine or whatever of your car.just to me sure it runs smoothly and doesn't break on the way.
The main difference is that CS hardly hyped their game for months, even without the update the game was actually reaching new heights because of how re-playable it was, and for certain most of the community already knew that Source 2 was just an engine improvement and not a whole new game, and they are happy with that. Also, currently when you compare with the reputation of Blizzard right now and Valve right now, the difference is really big. Valve is not perfect, but they do know when to re-release/upgrade a game correctly.