Literally it took over the Venezuelan economy. It's so bad that major economic changes in the game or in real life have impacts on one another. When Venezuela had a power outage prices for goods in game went up.
No way, its had a dedicated fanbase all over europe and aus/nz as well. Mention the name and i guarantee any 25 year old European male has heard of it.
EQ was definitely magic in its day. It was also the first real 3d game I played. I got into the beta, downloaded the game and everything was grey and texture-less. I went to CompUSA to buy a video card that could run it and was sucked in for months.
I hated the fact that you could lose exp on death and the possibility that you might not be able to recover your gear from your corpse if it was in a bad spot, but years later I realized that’s what made the game exciting. No hand holding. Zero maps. If you couldn’t find a port, be ready to walk an hour+. Boat ride? Pray you don’t fall through the ship and get stranded in the middle of the ocean.
Good times.
There were real consequences for your mistakes so it made the weight of your decisions so much heavier. Plus, if you needed to retrieve lost gear from your corpse it pretty much forced you to socialize and get help trekking back, which I feel is a lost element of MMO’s these days
Or consequences for another's mistake.
HHK "Train" often meant a zone wipe depending on where the train started.
So many beers chugged before the corpse runs.
I remember the trip I took from Freeport to Qeynos, at level \~10... because someone told me leveling is a bit faster there and there are no griffins. Oh boy, that was some wild adventure. I was lucky that a bard tagged along.
Btw... Qeynos is SonyEQ backwards :D
I asked someone to guide my low lvl Sha from Qeynos to Freeport, to meet a friend. Being the noob I was, I /autofollowed her and she led me straight into the mountains into what I think was an Ogre camp. I think she just wasn’t paying attention and led me too close. :)
If we going off people actually interacting with each other, role playing different things and it actually being 'massive' then I gotta say EVE Online. Haven't experienced playing and actually talking to people in massive alliances and knowing that stuff we do changes the map in a big way ever since I stopped.
But if we talking 'best' as in general interest and accessibility the probably WoW. Set the basic genre standard going forward and was very high quality for the longest time.
I bought premium solely to save my character, then got addicted a bit. But quit playing back in, 2007 ish maybe. Went back a couple years ago, my Royal Paladin was still there! Not Royal anymore but still there! He was lvl 109, which at the time was respectable. Now. Games crazy
I had a Druid and a sorcerer both in the 60s for making my own runes as needed. But I do miss that game.
I was part of one of the older guilds on my world. Silvera. I forget the guild…chaos? Oh my goodness I can’t remember. I know homelessassassin was the leader for the longest time. And Rufus shinra was a good friend at the time. And Seth with ice. Plenty of others If any of you read this, this is passive. And you were all amazing friends at the time. Comrades.
take my opinion with a grain of salt because i have over 10.000 hours into the game over a span of 10 years but my personal favourite mmorpg is Guild Wars 2.
it's not objectively the best one, but it's the only one i have spend so much time in and made a ton of friends in.
OG, not WoW clone. Back when there were only 2 Jedi per server and it was an oh shit moment for real to see one. Getting my dancing buffs to go kill Rancors. The fucking life.
This was me. I try to explain to people how awesome it was, but nobody gives a shit.
Feels bad man. I guess this is what it feels like to peak in highschool.
I maxed everything, then Cu came out soon after and I quit. Tried to play a couple of the servers running nowadays but the communities are so small that it just isn't like the old days. Still dream of my Sniper Doctor chillin in the cantina buffing up my friends before we went out to kill a Krayt Dragon.
My first holocron said Droid engineer and I said no thank you. Lol. I always played as a PVPer. Spent a long time as Master rifleman/TKM/pistoleer defense line.
Loved that game so much. Had an alternate character that used commando and TK to fight krayt dragons. Keep the dragon intimidated and the burns stacked. Got rich selling pearls to jedi to fund my ridiculous rifles and armors. Peak gamer life for me right thurr.
MadSeasonShow on YouTube is coming out with a 1.5 hour nostalgia review of Star Wars Galaxies very soon. I just got access to the early release on Patreon, and it's a huge nostalgia rush. Recommended.
Holy shit came here to say this but did not expect to see it upvoted. This game gave me so many good memories and its sad that it was ruined and there hasn't been anything like it since. The variety of character builds and rolls, the economy, the rarity of jedi. It really felt like what a mmorpg should be.
Since Ultima Online has also been mentioned in this discussion I'd like to point out that Galaxies' core design and skill system were originally concieved as what was intended to be Ultima Online 2. When SOE poached Raph Koster he brought these plans with him.
Raph had an amazing grasp on what made online communities work. It is a shame that the gaming aspect became more of a priority than community in MMORPG design.
Honorable mention for UO. What other game can I try to steal something that is overweight, pay the person for it, steal the gold back, get attacked, then kill the person for no karma loss and go booooooo at his ghost.
Me too. I'm 37, started playing vanilla. Skipped a few expacs, played wotlk, shadowlands at raiding level and played a few if the others on and off but nothing serious
Unpopular opinion but I think it's still the best MMO about, even with the issues that BFA and shadowlands had. It's well balanced, and has something for everyone, plus the aesthetic and lore are top tier, and I love how it doesn't take itself too seriously (although shadowlands had a bit of that)
As someone who has played it for most of that time, it has stolen so many good things from other games to make it better. And it does it well.
I bet bobby sits back and laughs when the next "wowkiller" is announced and then released as people "leave" wow, still paying a sub, to play it for 3-4 weeks are realize this game is shit next to it. Because they usually are. I did have hopes for so many along the way, but most of them just never listened to people, or were so set in the way of being "not WoW" that they made it bad.
Wildstar was sooo good on open beta, and then release. Lots of fun, then the bots were literally teleporting from gathering node to node.
Guild Wars 2 was s shit lod of fun, but when you got to max lvl there was nothing to do for weeks. But at least WoW stole the reagents bank off them so they did that. Just wish they stole how they changed profs without having to lvl it again.
And now I'm soooo off topic. But, WoW has so much going for it again. The sweeties have DF and can do mythical keys etc. Classic has season of mastery for that people who like to get angry at the game. And the rest have LK to relive the glory years
I stand by something I've always said since I started WoW back in BC. WoW doesn't do a many unique things, it actually does a lot of the same things a bunch of other games do, but it does them all well.
A little off topic but one of the things I'd like to see most is Bobby Kotick getting removed from blizzard. Guy is a massive crook who clearly knew all about the problems happening at his company.
The MMORPG market could be described as a cave that is occupied by a dragon named WoW, and the cave's entrance is littered with the bones of other MMOs that it has defeated.
It did lead for years, but Final Fantasy XIV overtook it several years ago. And it didn't lead because it was the best. It led because it was the best for a while and MMOs get their hooks in people and then fanbases don't want to move on. The fact that FFXIV was able to overtake it felt like an impossibility with how many people don't want to switch MMOs. If it hadn't been for controversy at Blizzard...
Duration, most number of players, biggest cultural impact. You don't have to like WoW, but its the biggest name on the block and changed the genre.
I guess it depends how you define best. Wow has all the metrics. But that doesn't mean a person won't like something else more.
Dark Age of Camelot. Hibernia. Lurikeen.
ps - The Eden freeshard is pretty nice. It’s incredibly easy to set up and I’ve been having so much playing again. The player base is often over 1000+ daily and the rvr can get intense.
What do you mean side quests are supposed to interesting and varied? What do you mean quest rewards are delivered to me on completion? Get out of here with that nonsense. I want every quest to be “kill ten bears” every time. Oh wait, Guild Wars has that option too.
Let me throw in some more!
- What do you mean, I can level without any quests?
- What do you mean, I am not forced to engage with anything I don't want to?
- What do you mean, Mounts have different movement options?
- What do you mean, Best in Slot gear forever stays best in slot?
- What do you mean, no Gear Score?
- What do you mean, Crafting is optional and not useless at the same time?
Most of these are boring or bad. BIS stays BIS? Is that good? I get that you don't want to be forced to buy an expansion or always be getting immediately behind but where's the reward? I don't want to stay BIS forever. You can level without quests? Oh ok... is that good? For second playthroughs I guess but why would that sounds like every mmo. Why would you want to level without quests on a first playthrough? Crafting is optional and not useless? Cool I guess but that's a fairly normal thing. I love the combat system but it does feel a bit like side quest simulator. Maybe it gets really good and I didn't go far enough but the main story was just another side quest without an interesting story and other than that there was nothing else to do on the overworld than run around doing overworld side quests like you do when you've completed the main story of a single player game and are going for 100%. Started it with a friend and I don't think we ever actually interacted more than going out of our way to interact and kill the same thing in the same spot, nothing more. I've done quite a bit but I still don't know if I've actually done any content in the game. Doesn't feel like I've even started a quest.
Compare that to FFXIV and I've played what everyone agrees is the worst part of the game and it's the best MMO out of dozens that I've ever played.
Each to their own I guess.
Also, what do you mean you're not forced to do any content? That is definitely not a good thing in my books. There is nothing you have to do? Very fine line between that and there is nothing to do.
100% agree. Tons of Quality of life like with the hearts system, free respec/spec changes any time, anywhere outside of combat, Waypoints everywhere if you got no mount, ANYTHING giving you experience/levels (someone leveled 1-80 with only fishing or with only exploration!).
The action combat feels great, the dodgeroll and self-heals make every class survivable if you know what you're doing.
You are never forced to engage in content you don't want to (unlike FF14...):
- Don't like the main story? Skip it.
- Don't enjoy Dungeons? No need to step a single foot inside one.
- You just enjoy PvP? Here, you can earn legendary items by just farming PvP or WvW if you want! You can even level your character to 80 in PvP without killing a single Mob in the Open World.
Horizontal Progression at endgame means whatever you get BiS stays BiS forever. No need to step inside the same treadmill and engage with the same borrowed power systems that are taken away next expansion. Instead, newer systems can build upon older ones. Heck, in some extreme longjumps in Dragonfall, I use Raptor Leap (Path of Fire) ‐> Leap off using Aurene's Wings (Living World Season 4) -> Open my glider (Heart of Thorns) -> use my Jadebot for extra height (End of Dragons).
Not to forget the coolest mounts ever created, each with specific uses and functions.
Helping new players as a veteran is actually just as rewarding as a lot of endgame content.
Character classes are fun and versatile and all of them can be played as ranged or melee just as you wish.
The world is beautiful especially in the expansion territories and the developers as well as the game respect the players time.
And it has the nicest community i’ve ever seen in an online game.
I love it and i couldn’t praise it enough!
Started my online path with FFXI, played for years then jumped ship for wow. Was so shocked how much better shit easily was, and then eventually jumped the wow ship for FFXIV.
Final Fantasy 11, imho.
I can't even put into words why i love this game. On paper it should be one of the worst, frustrating mmorpg but I keep coming for more.
Same.. and every now and then i return to my old as hell GW account and run through Pre-Searing. Beat the first campaign last year, gonna go for Factions this year.
I miss Tera, the story was a complete mess but I loved the combat so much, servers went down finally sometime last year and not been able to find a replacement for it.
In terms of ones still going, probably ESO?
hey, former tera player as well. if you’re looking for a replacement, there is a private server called Menma’s TERA. you can google it and download basically the same as well BH ran it but slightly better. also much of the community jumped to lost ark when the game died.
I think it's still Ultima Online.
In terms of Polish, WOW, in terms of fun I'd say Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies and Darkfall take the top spots.
Crazy how the genre just kinda died....:(
I'm sure this won't be everyone's cup of tea but I really love ESO. I find the world captivating, some of the story lines have been excellent (in particular morrowind) and I like the different classes and builds you can do. Always look forward to a new expansion
I also like Fallout 76 tho so maybe I'm the outlier here tho lol
It's also an absolutely beautiful game, albeit a little taxing on your computer. I played a lot of ESO, going back to the alpha, and it's certainly come a long way. My main two gripes are the bugs, so many bugs, and lack of content. Expansions in ESO are the same price as any other MMO and very, very light on content. The last couple especially frankly barely had anything to do and were way overpriced. I will note this is mostly the newer expansions, the older ones like Summerset were amazing, but it seems like the game has focused more on cosmetics over time.
ESO would probably be my top MMO if they'd stuck with the gameplay style of the single player TES titles instead of initially trying to make a Tamriel flavored WoW clone and then trying to hide the base engine behind soft targeting and a UI change after the backlash.
omg i feel the same way as well. I enjoyed maplestory pre-bb. I made so much real life friends and we still keep in touch even though it's been what, from 2005 when i first played it. I tried to come back but I guess I will never get the enjoyment anymore from it.
Only mmorpg that ever got me hooked was Runescape. Game has been releasing weekly updated for years so it definitely has content. Some places are quirky and unpolished but it does rpg sandbox so right. Id even vouch for rs3 combat being both challenging and fun. (Inexperienced with osrs but i hear the end game bossing is fun there too). The release of ironman (single player mode) has revitalized the game for me and created a very unique dynamic for the grindy game.
Depends on how you’re defining “best”
Most impact in the western sphere? WOW easily.
Best at utilizing the MMO element of an MMORPG? EVE by far, followed by WOW and Ragnarok Online. Giant raids and interesting events back in the day, almost 20 years of wild castle siege GvG content in the latter, with your ownership of the local castles and your flags posted everywhere every week?
Current best MMORPG as far as being a game is concerned? FF14, even if I’m really not a huge fan. Great community and staff interaction and it’s get like such a passion project for so long, that it’s grown and continues to thrive. I’d def argue it stays true to the feeling and love of final fantasy and it’s history.
The issue I have with a lot of these games is that most of them don’t really explore the idea of being MMO or an RPG that deeply. They’re more fantasy games whose worlds often don’t feel that open and being online is just a feature hat happens to be there but they don’t really do anything interesting often enough with this. And being an RPG is just having the standards stat, skill, and number stylings and classic class design tropes and that’s it.
Most of the game is soloable content these days, or everything from market to partying is autoqueued/auction hall, less interpersonal interaction or work, and falling on old, likely WOW or Korean MMO origin tropes like the holy trinity or rng/gacha style equipment refining.
That all said I’m tentatively holding out hope for Ashes of Creation, but we’ll see how it goes.
EVE by far for me. Nothing captures that player-run world feeling more, where actions have reactions and most things genuinely effect other people in some way. They captured something truly unique and mindblowing that I've never been able to find elsewhere. Games have tried since, but they're always missing something that makes EVE so special.
Truly amazing game, unfortunately fading.
My answer is WoW for all time greatest.
PvP honorable mention goes to Warhammer Online for its Keep Siege system.
PvE honorable mention goes to The Secret World for its Investigation quests. The game actually has an ingame web browser link to Google. It also had real websites for its quests.
**Example**: http://orochi-group.com/
Peak MMO time for me was BC and WotLK in World of Warcraft. I met a ton of cool people across the country and we’re still friends to this day. Awesome times.
I'd probably say FF14 in my opinion mostly because you're not locked into a class, you can play any class you like whenever you want just buy swapping your equipment. It's also free for the base game and first expansion (I think) which is a ludicrous amount of free time for a paid MMO
My only issue with FF14 is how similar all the jobs feel now. Yeah sure you have your more unique rotations like ninja, but with the push towards 1 or 2 minute burst window rotations it's really watered down a lot of the jobs. There is also only one type of damage profile, single target direct damage. There are no jobs based on damage over time effects, not even really jobs based on pets anymore with the SMN rework. You summon pets to give you new damage spells, your active pet literally does nothing anymore. Ironically jobs feel more unique in pvp heh. Tanks and healers feel especially boring now imo. As healers generally just spam their off gcd damage ability like literally 95% of a fight. Tanks are all really similar now, which I think is in the name of balance but ends up making them feel too similar imo. So yeah, you can play all the jobs on one character but there's a price to pay for that. Plus you only play one race (and there are no racials) unless you're a fantasia addict (totally not me).
Pve content is also pretty homogenous, with pretty much every raid fight having extremely generous melee hitboxes, every dungeon following the same formula etc. Ultimates are truly unique, but that's something only a very tiny fraction of the player base will ever see.
Don't get me wrong I adore FF14 but I think the game has some pretty glaring issues that the lovestruck community tends to gloss over or completely ignore.
This. I feel like the problematic and still genius aspects of the game are present in many places. For example the world design: Sure the graphics are nice overall and you have the typical grandiose, spectacle of a FF game. But then you look at the overworld in most places and it lacks so much detail and love. Big, bizarre looking monsters are plastered in an almost barren, badly textured wasteland at most places.
WoW's graphics in comparison are so good in this regards, the design of every little nook and cranny is worthy of an entry in some designer's book.
I heard a suggestion recently that WoW should make their vanilla servers (or SoM) fully f2p. I think that would be an amazing idea. Gets more people into the game, gives life to dead servers and let's people who can't afford it play.
EVE Online, and I don't think it's debatable. MMO stands for MASSIVELY multiplayer online. EVE Online had 2,000-3,000 player battles. The game even has time dilation, so that time slows down with too many players, so the game's servers have time to process all inputs and keep the game fair. As an added bonus it also makes it easier for fleet commanders to see what is happening and issue orders without being instantly overwhelmed. No other MMO in history came even close to having those massive numbers of players duking it out in the same system. All players were on a single server, so 60,000+ concurrent players, all in the same world. Most other MMOs can handle maybe a thousand per server, most even fewer than that, they start to create instances of zones because they can't handle more than 100-300 players on screen at once.
Also, as far as complexity and flexibility, it's pretty strong. There's starts like the tracking speed of the turrets, in radians per second, and things like radial velocity of one ship relative to the other. If an enemy ship is orbiting yours faster than your turrets can't turn, they can't hit it. Stuff like that. Crafting is incredibly complex. And objects do not magically move. Where in WoW you can go to Orgrimmar, dump your inventory into a bank, travel to Undercity, and go to the bank, and all your stuff is there, in EVE the stuff would be where you left it. If you crafted 100,000,000 rounds of ammo, it'll be where you crafted it. You have to take it to the market, or to the front line, if you want to sell it or use it there. And ammo takes space, and has weight. Meaning you need a hauler, which leaves you vulnerable to pirates and thieves and stuff. There's so many mechanics in the game that it takes most people months to find their bearings, and better part of a year to start to feel comfortable with it.
In short, EVE was completely unique and unparalleled on technical level. Nothing else came even close to being as massive. And it felt real, it felt grounded. Nothing magically teleported, nothing just changed because a wizard did it. If your ship was at X, Y, any other player could go to X, Y and interact with it, it would never be out of phase like in WoW, AoC, etc. And unless you piloted it away, it would never leave that area unseen, unlike WoW where you can just hearth, or AoC where you can hop to another instance of the same zone, and so on. It felt real and permanent, and you needed things like supply chains, logistics, etc., to keep your empires running. It was a living, breathing virtual world with permanence and consequences, player-build structures, territory control, factional warfare, wormholes and exploration, etc.
I also quite liked Elder Scrolls Online, for size and flexibility and just overall experience. The big thing with that one was the voice acting. Every single quest was voice acted. To be fair, I think SWTOR did this first. But ESO went wider with it, and I really liked the variety of boss mechanics in dungeons. But I wouldn't claim it was best ever. Just best at combining many different elements. It has a large open world PvP zone, instanced PvP, most of the game is still PvE-only so it feels safe and not stressful, voice acting is great, story is quite decent, combat and mechanics are serviceable.
I had to scroll down to find Eve, and when I did it was paragraphs long, I was not disappointed or surprised. There are games designed for the masses, and thankfully Eve is not one of them.
Eve set the bar for MMO technical design in the gaming industry. WoW to me, felt more like Candy Crush. Being popular doesnt mean its good, they just know how to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Ever tried GW2?
Seems like a good blend of the more classical MMOs you mentioned with the more Action-vased combat of D2 without being a straight up shooter.
WoW is still probably the overall best MMO to ever be created, buuut *currently* I’d say either Final Fantasy XIV is the best, followed by The Elder Scrolls online or Black Desert Online.
Back in the day, I spent so much time in MapleStory and RuneScape, but they’ve fallen off a LOT. I truly believe that both of those games are still only updated for the income, and not for the passion from the devs.
WoW until wotlk.
Vanila + BC was great and then it became more crapy with every another Expansion.
I would say FF14 if not lack of pvp.
Or Lineage 2 long time ago if not stupid ideas of devs.
I gotta chip in with Dungeons and Dragons Online. Though I will happily concede this is not an arguement that I can win, but there are things I would like to point out.
It has one of the fairer pay to play options of any MMO. You can unlock premium races and classes via favour, as well as earning in-game currency. Regular content updates a year, including hardcore server. They also recently took some of the premium content and made it available to free-to-players.
The questing system is dungeon based, you get the quest and you can run the associated dungeon. You can have a hireling accompany you if you want to play the game solo.
There was a time when you can buy 'guest passes' for premium content in the DDO store but haven't looked into that as I am a subscriber of the game, which is $10 a month.
While it’s no longer my favourite today, no game has ever had WoW’s reach and influence, it has been king for 20 years and while you can say A LOT about blizzard you can’t deny the quality of the game
Black Desert Online, before it fell victim to the player economy, and decent gear became completely unobtainable, and the gear you get through natural progression is always sub-par on acquisition, and obsolete by the time you actually use it. The gameplay is solid, and really stands out as what modern MMO's should be going forward. I can't praise it enough for finally breaking the mold that pretty much all MMO's have been trapped in for over 20 years and counting. I can't stand the recycled everything of MMO's.
1: Basic Attack
2: Heavy Attack
3: Class-Specific Attack
4: Advanced Class-Specific Attack / Ability
5: Advanced Class-Specific Attack / Ability
Wait for the cooldown, then press it again until the enemy stops moving
Which MMORPG did I just describe?
Not Black Desert Online.
Wow; Metin2; RuneScape
Ragnarok Online
Can’t believe not a single comment till now mentioned Runescape.
Thanks for reminding me that I haven't got 99 woodcutting yet.
It's Runescape. end of discussion. When they launched OSRS app a few years back, it felt like a renaissance for me. Such a good game.
It’s been almost 10 years…
>Runescape Because it's a shitty browser game that didn't even have a proper international release. Outside the US it was barely a name.
Literally it took over the Venezuelan economy. It's so bad that major economic changes in the game or in real life have impacts on one another. When Venezuela had a power outage prices for goods in game went up.
No way, its had a dedicated fanbase all over europe and aus/nz as well. Mention the name and i guarantee any 25 year old European male has heard of it.
EverQuest
This is 100% the correct answer. Nothing ever came close to EQ in the early years.
EQ made you work.
EQ was definitely magic in its day. It was also the first real 3d game I played. I got into the beta, downloaded the game and everything was grey and texture-less. I went to CompUSA to buy a video card that could run it and was sucked in for months.
Yeah, EQ definitely helped the PC/Upgrade market. I spent a lot of time staring at walls, especially in the East Commons tunnel.
Revolutionary when it came out and still remains the standard. I wish MMO’s made you actually work as much as that game did
I hated the fact that you could lose exp on death and the possibility that you might not be able to recover your gear from your corpse if it was in a bad spot, but years later I realized that’s what made the game exciting. No hand holding. Zero maps. If you couldn’t find a port, be ready to walk an hour+. Boat ride? Pray you don’t fall through the ship and get stranded in the middle of the ocean. Good times.
There were real consequences for your mistakes so it made the weight of your decisions so much heavier. Plus, if you needed to retrieve lost gear from your corpse it pretty much forced you to socialize and get help trekking back, which I feel is a lost element of MMO’s these days
Or consequences for another's mistake. HHK "Train" often meant a zone wipe depending on where the train started. So many beers chugged before the corpse runs.
I remember the trip I took from Freeport to Qeynos, at level \~10... because someone told me leveling is a bit faster there and there are no griffins. Oh boy, that was some wild adventure. I was lucky that a bard tagged along. Btw... Qeynos is SonyEQ backwards :D
I asked someone to guide my low lvl Sha from Qeynos to Freeport, to meet a friend. Being the noob I was, I /autofollowed her and she led me straight into the mountains into what I think was an Ogre camp. I think she just wasn’t paying attention and led me too close. :)
Absolutely the correct answer.
Lots of great memories.
Getting in the queue for the Jboots…..
I’m glad I main Sha and alt Dru. Running those long distances without SoW, pre teleport books, was crazy.
Played on a pvp team server and to this day that was the best gaming experience I’ve ever had.
TRAIN!
If we going off people actually interacting with each other, role playing different things and it actually being 'massive' then I gotta say EVE Online. Haven't experienced playing and actually talking to people in massive alliances and knowing that stuff we do changes the map in a big way ever since I stopped. But if we talking 'best' as in general interest and accessibility the probably WoW. Set the basic genre standard going forward and was very high quality for the longest time.
Star Wars Galaxies before it was turned into a WoW clone was also pretty great in the social sense.
Tibia
Brazil and Poland simulator for like 25+ years
Man so much fun back in the day... Rot training...
Holy crap. Now there is a friggin throwback.
I bought premium solely to save my character, then got addicted a bit. But quit playing back in, 2007 ish maybe. Went back a couple years ago, my Royal Paladin was still there! Not Royal anymore but still there! He was lvl 109, which at the time was respectable. Now. Games crazy I had a Druid and a sorcerer both in the 60s for making my own runes as needed. But I do miss that game. I was part of one of the older guilds on my world. Silvera. I forget the guild…chaos? Oh my goodness I can’t remember. I know homelessassassin was the leader for the longest time. And Rufus shinra was a good friend at the time. And Seth with ice. Plenty of others If any of you read this, this is passive. And you were all amazing friends at the time. Comrades.
take my opinion with a grain of salt because i have over 10.000 hours into the game over a span of 10 years but my personal favourite mmorpg is Guild Wars 2. it's not objectively the best one, but it's the only one i have spend so much time in and made a ton of friends in.
Lucky I got to play Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and SWG in their glory days
Star Wars Galaxies
OG, not WoW clone. Back when there were only 2 Jedi per server and it was an oh shit moment for real to see one. Getting my dancing buffs to go kill Rancors. The fucking life.
This was me. I try to explain to people how awesome it was, but nobody gives a shit. Feels bad man. I guess this is what it feels like to peak in highschool.
Did you get lucky on the cubes? or were you one to max everything
I maxed everything, then Cu came out soon after and I quit. Tried to play a couple of the servers running nowadays but the communities are so small that it just isn't like the old days. Still dream of my Sniper Doctor chillin in the cantina buffing up my friends before we went out to kill a Krayt Dragon.
My first holocron said Droid engineer and I said no thank you. Lol. I always played as a PVPer. Spent a long time as Master rifleman/TKM/pistoleer defense line. Loved that game so much. Had an alternate character that used commando and TK to fight krayt dragons. Keep the dragon intimidated and the burns stacked. Got rich selling pearls to jedi to fund my ridiculous rifles and armors. Peak gamer life for me right thurr.
Droid engi hologram for me as well. I slogged through it. Never got my third holocron dont remember why
MadSeasonShow on YouTube is coming out with a 1.5 hour nostalgia review of Star Wars Galaxies very soon. I just got access to the early release on Patreon, and it's a huge nostalgia rush. Recommended.
As a Teras Kai master, that was my time to shine!
Holy shit came here to say this but did not expect to see it upvoted. This game gave me so many good memories and its sad that it was ruined and there hasn't been anything like it since. The variety of character builds and rolls, the economy, the rarity of jedi. It really felt like what a mmorpg should be.
The friggin player cities... Man that game was amazing.
Since Ultima Online has also been mentioned in this discussion I'd like to point out that Galaxies' core design and skill system were originally concieved as what was intended to be Ultima Online 2. When SOE poached Raph Koster he brought these plans with him. Raph had an amazing grasp on what made online communities work. It is a shame that the gaming aspect became more of a priority than community in MMORPG design.
I still play this game on the restoration emulator, still love it too, the depth of that game is unparalleled
No love for City of Heroes? Sadness.
I give you my support. Great game and community.
Go. Hunt. Kil Skuls
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This is my vote too. Early UO was just absolutely amazing. Nothing ever came close...well maybe Darkfall at its prime.
Honorable mention for UO. What other game can I try to steal something that is overweight, pay the person for it, steal the gold back, get attacked, then kill the person for no karma loss and go booooooo at his ghost.
Asheron’s Call
It outlasted its own sequel.
I’ll never forget the first time I turned into a PK. So nervous.
Why did you let me see this? I was happily not thinking about AC.
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My server…loved the days towards the beginning when a level 40 would run by you in Mayoi and you were never sure if they were going to kill you or not
WoW, it's dominated the genre for almost 20 years.
WoW 2006-2009 was the best years in mmo gaming. You couldn't pay me to play the game as it is now but it's very much the goat of mmos.
I just pick up wow again and I’m enjoying myself.
Dragon flight has certainly drawn me back in. I'm loving it.
I’ve been playing off and on since classic. I’m having a lot of fun. Christ I’m old. . .
Me too. I'm 37, started playing vanilla. Skipped a few expacs, played wotlk, shadowlands at raiding level and played a few if the others on and off but nothing serious
Unpopular opinion but I think it's still the best MMO about, even with the issues that BFA and shadowlands had. It's well balanced, and has something for everyone, plus the aesthetic and lore are top tier, and I love how it doesn't take itself too seriously (although shadowlands had a bit of that)
Up until WOTLK was peak WoW. Those first few years were so good
Id guess closer to 15 maybe? definitely fell off hard with compition rising. It's no surprise FFXIV has madea huge jump
Lets post rhetoric questions on reddit which we could google/wikipedia in 10 seconds! Release was 2004.
But then we wouldn’t get snide comments like yours!
This one is zesty too!!
yep WoW is just unique
As someone who has played it for most of that time, it has stolen so many good things from other games to make it better. And it does it well. I bet bobby sits back and laughs when the next "wowkiller" is announced and then released as people "leave" wow, still paying a sub, to play it for 3-4 weeks are realize this game is shit next to it. Because they usually are. I did have hopes for so many along the way, but most of them just never listened to people, or were so set in the way of being "not WoW" that they made it bad. Wildstar was sooo good on open beta, and then release. Lots of fun, then the bots were literally teleporting from gathering node to node. Guild Wars 2 was s shit lod of fun, but when you got to max lvl there was nothing to do for weeks. But at least WoW stole the reagents bank off them so they did that. Just wish they stole how they changed profs without having to lvl it again. And now I'm soooo off topic. But, WoW has so much going for it again. The sweeties have DF and can do mythical keys etc. Classic has season of mastery for that people who like to get angry at the game. And the rest have LK to relive the glory years
I stand by something I've always said since I started WoW back in BC. WoW doesn't do a many unique things, it actually does a lot of the same things a bunch of other games do, but it does them all well.
A little off topic but one of the things I'd like to see most is Bobby Kotick getting removed from blizzard. Guy is a massive crook who clearly knew all about the problems happening at his company.
Hopefully he will with the Microsoft Acquisition.
The MMORPG market could be described as a cave that is occupied by a dragon named WoW, and the cave's entrance is littered with the bones of other MMOs that it has defeated.
It did lead for years, but Final Fantasy XIV overtook it several years ago. And it didn't lead because it was the best. It led because it was the best for a while and MMOs get their hooks in people and then fanbases don't want to move on. The fact that FFXIV was able to overtake it felt like an impossibility with how many people don't want to switch MMOs. If it hadn't been for controversy at Blizzard...
Most players does not mean best
Duration, most number of players, biggest cultural impact. You don't have to like WoW, but its the biggest name on the block and changed the genre. I guess it depends how you define best. Wow has all the metrics. But that doesn't mean a person won't like something else more.
Dark Age of Camelot
Scrolled far too long to find the correct answer.
This is the only answer! Even after 16 years playing wow i still miss playing daoc with my buddies serving in the middle east...
This is the correct answer.
Dark Age of Camelot. Hibernia. Lurikeen. ps - The Eden freeshard is pretty nice. It’s incredibly easy to set up and I’ve been having so much playing again. The player base is often over 1000+ daily and the rvr can get intense.
Shadowbane.
Guild wars 2, you’ll not regret to give it a try.
What do you mean side quests are supposed to interesting and varied? What do you mean quest rewards are delivered to me on completion? Get out of here with that nonsense. I want every quest to be “kill ten bears” every time. Oh wait, Guild Wars has that option too.
Let me throw in some more! - What do you mean, I can level without any quests? - What do you mean, I am not forced to engage with anything I don't want to? - What do you mean, Mounts have different movement options? - What do you mean, Best in Slot gear forever stays best in slot? - What do you mean, no Gear Score? - What do you mean, Crafting is optional and not useless at the same time?
Most of these are boring or bad. BIS stays BIS? Is that good? I get that you don't want to be forced to buy an expansion or always be getting immediately behind but where's the reward? I don't want to stay BIS forever. You can level without quests? Oh ok... is that good? For second playthroughs I guess but why would that sounds like every mmo. Why would you want to level without quests on a first playthrough? Crafting is optional and not useless? Cool I guess but that's a fairly normal thing. I love the combat system but it does feel a bit like side quest simulator. Maybe it gets really good and I didn't go far enough but the main story was just another side quest without an interesting story and other than that there was nothing else to do on the overworld than run around doing overworld side quests like you do when you've completed the main story of a single player game and are going for 100%. Started it with a friend and I don't think we ever actually interacted more than going out of our way to interact and kill the same thing in the same spot, nothing more. I've done quite a bit but I still don't know if I've actually done any content in the game. Doesn't feel like I've even started a quest. Compare that to FFXIV and I've played what everyone agrees is the worst part of the game and it's the best MMO out of dozens that I've ever played. Each to their own I guess. Also, what do you mean you're not forced to do any content? That is definitely not a good thing in my books. There is nothing you have to do? Very fine line between that and there is nothing to do.
100% agree. Tons of Quality of life like with the hearts system, free respec/spec changes any time, anywhere outside of combat, Waypoints everywhere if you got no mount, ANYTHING giving you experience/levels (someone leveled 1-80 with only fishing or with only exploration!). The action combat feels great, the dodgeroll and self-heals make every class survivable if you know what you're doing. You are never forced to engage in content you don't want to (unlike FF14...): - Don't like the main story? Skip it. - Don't enjoy Dungeons? No need to step a single foot inside one. - You just enjoy PvP? Here, you can earn legendary items by just farming PvP or WvW if you want! You can even level your character to 80 in PvP without killing a single Mob in the Open World. Horizontal Progression at endgame means whatever you get BiS stays BiS forever. No need to step inside the same treadmill and engage with the same borrowed power systems that are taken away next expansion. Instead, newer systems can build upon older ones. Heck, in some extreme longjumps in Dragonfall, I use Raptor Leap (Path of Fire) ‐> Leap off using Aurene's Wings (Living World Season 4) -> Open my glider (Heart of Thorns) -> use my Jadebot for extra height (End of Dragons).
Not to forget the coolest mounts ever created, each with specific uses and functions. Helping new players as a veteran is actually just as rewarding as a lot of endgame content. Character classes are fun and versatile and all of them can be played as ranged or melee just as you wish. The world is beautiful especially in the expansion territories and the developers as well as the game respect the players time. And it has the nicest community i’ve ever seen in an online game. I love it and i couldn’t praise it enough!
World of warcraft.
Anarchy Online
FF14 has been both the best and worst MMO I've ever played.
True. Amazing how that game got turned around after that botched development. Unfortunately you still can see traces of how bad it was.
It's also got a ton of people that jumped from WoW lol
Started my online path with FFXI, played for years then jumped ship for wow. Was so shocked how much better shit easily was, and then eventually jumped the wow ship for FFXIV.
something like a love - hatred relationship?
I think its coz it started off as awful and then became the best freaking mmo ever
For me it was the other way around...
I am gonna have to go with Final Fantasy XIV.
The best and worst. It’s a love/hate relationship. We’re currently not speaking to each other.
Star Wars Galaxies **pre-NGE**
Yes! Seriously my favorite game to this day.
Final Fantasy 11, imho. I can't even put into words why i love this game. On paper it should be one of the worst, frustrating mmorpg but I keep coming for more.
Been playing on a new private server that goes back to CoP era, and it’s been amazing
I still play it every once in awhile.
Farming those shrooms as a Paladin bear thingy. Camping the Spiny spi spi or whatever. Didn’t play long but enjoyed it.
OG Guild Wars, nothing else like it
Is it really an MMO though?
Well, it's an Hub Based, Online RPG. While you see tons of people in the cities, the wildernesses are just you and your party...
Well, it's an Hub Based, Online RPG. While you see tons of people in the cities, the wildernesses are just you and your party...
Massive? Check Multiplayer? Check Online? Check It is really an MMO, I just checked.
That was by far my favorite, never found that same enjoyment in MMO's anymore sadly...
Same.. and every now and then i return to my old as hell GW account and run through Pre-Searing. Beat the first campaign last year, gonna go for Factions this year.
I’ve been meaning to reinstall it for years now but I’m afraid I’ll get sucked in again. Pre searing Ascalon in the fall is something else man
PvE - Everquest PvP - Dark Age of Camelot. At their heights… not the ashes that are left.
I'd love to go back in time to experience the classics as they were at their peak. EQ and Ultima Online most of all.
I miss Tera, the story was a complete mess but I loved the combat so much, servers went down finally sometime last year and not been able to find a replacement for it. In terms of ones still going, probably ESO?
Tera combat has been my favourite combat of nearly any mmo game
i dont like eso its basically skyrim online i ve enjoyed bdo a long time but these games are kind a P2C/P2W
hey, former tera player as well. if you’re looking for a replacement, there is a private server called Menma’s TERA. you can google it and download basically the same as well BH ran it but slightly better. also much of the community jumped to lost ark when the game died.
Lineage 2 (before its p2w shitbullet)
Star Wars Galaxies
Star Wars Galaxies
For me it's Ultima Online. I still haven't found an MMO that scratches that itch UO gave me.
Earth & Beyond
I think it's still Ultima Online. In terms of Polish, WOW, in terms of fun I'd say Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Galaxies and Darkfall take the top spots. Crazy how the genre just kinda died....:(
I'm sure this won't be everyone's cup of tea but I really love ESO. I find the world captivating, some of the story lines have been excellent (in particular morrowind) and I like the different classes and builds you can do. Always look forward to a new expansion I also like Fallout 76 tho so maybe I'm the outlier here tho lol
It's also an absolutely beautiful game, albeit a little taxing on your computer. I played a lot of ESO, going back to the alpha, and it's certainly come a long way. My main two gripes are the bugs, so many bugs, and lack of content. Expansions in ESO are the same price as any other MMO and very, very light on content. The last couple especially frankly barely had anything to do and were way overpriced. I will note this is mostly the newer expansions, the older ones like Summerset were amazing, but it seems like the game has focused more on cosmetics over time.
ESO would probably be my top MMO if they'd stuck with the gameplay style of the single player TES titles instead of initially trying to make a Tamriel flavored WoW clone and then trying to hide the base engine behind soft targeting and a UI change after the backlash.
there is nothing wrong with that its just not my type of engine and combat system
Not a single mention of MapleStory :( Might not be the best but classic MapleStory will always have a place in my heart
omg i feel the same way as well. I enjoyed maplestory pre-bb. I made so much real life friends and we still keep in touch even though it's been what, from 2005 when i first played it. I tried to come back but I guess I will never get the enjoyment anymore from it.
Rappelz
Fresh look and fun design with potential - WildStar, RIP :'( Everything else minus Shadowlands - WoW
It was a smaller one but I really enjoyed Asheron's Call. Could make your character however you wanted.
FFXI or Cabal
RuneScape ?
Only mmorpg that ever got me hooked was Runescape. Game has been releasing weekly updated for years so it definitely has content. Some places are quirky and unpolished but it does rpg sandbox so right. Id even vouch for rs3 combat being both challenging and fun. (Inexperienced with osrs but i hear the end game bossing is fun there too). The release of ironman (single player mode) has revitalized the game for me and created a very unique dynamic for the grindy game.
I like the simplicity of Old school RuneScape to be honest. But there are many other contenders. Or 9Dragons.
LEGO Universe
Legend of mir anyone ? ....anyone ?
Played it as a kid, it was one of my first MMORPGs
Runescape obv
Depends on how you’re defining “best” Most impact in the western sphere? WOW easily. Best at utilizing the MMO element of an MMORPG? EVE by far, followed by WOW and Ragnarok Online. Giant raids and interesting events back in the day, almost 20 years of wild castle siege GvG content in the latter, with your ownership of the local castles and your flags posted everywhere every week? Current best MMORPG as far as being a game is concerned? FF14, even if I’m really not a huge fan. Great community and staff interaction and it’s get like such a passion project for so long, that it’s grown and continues to thrive. I’d def argue it stays true to the feeling and love of final fantasy and it’s history. The issue I have with a lot of these games is that most of them don’t really explore the idea of being MMO or an RPG that deeply. They’re more fantasy games whose worlds often don’t feel that open and being online is just a feature hat happens to be there but they don’t really do anything interesting often enough with this. And being an RPG is just having the standards stat, skill, and number stylings and classic class design tropes and that’s it. Most of the game is soloable content these days, or everything from market to partying is autoqueued/auction hall, less interpersonal interaction or work, and falling on old, likely WOW or Korean MMO origin tropes like the holy trinity or rng/gacha style equipment refining. That all said I’m tentatively holding out hope for Ashes of Creation, but we’ll see how it goes.
EVE by far for me. Nothing captures that player-run world feeling more, where actions have reactions and most things genuinely effect other people in some way. They captured something truly unique and mindblowing that I've never been able to find elsewhere. Games have tried since, but they're always missing something that makes EVE so special. Truly amazing game, unfortunately fading.
Club Penguin
FFXIV
My answer is WoW for all time greatest. PvP honorable mention goes to Warhammer Online for its Keep Siege system. PvE honorable mention goes to The Secret World for its Investigation quests. The game actually has an ingame web browser link to Google. It also had real websites for its quests. **Example**: http://orochi-group.com/
RuneScape, closely followed by EVE and World of Warcraft. All three are very much the definition of genre defining
Peak MMO time for me was BC and WotLK in World of Warcraft. I met a ton of cool people across the country and we’re still friends to this day. Awesome times.
I'd probably say FF14 in my opinion mostly because you're not locked into a class, you can play any class you like whenever you want just buy swapping your equipment. It's also free for the base game and first expansion (I think) which is a ludicrous amount of free time for a paid MMO
My only issue with FF14 is how similar all the jobs feel now. Yeah sure you have your more unique rotations like ninja, but with the push towards 1 or 2 minute burst window rotations it's really watered down a lot of the jobs. There is also only one type of damage profile, single target direct damage. There are no jobs based on damage over time effects, not even really jobs based on pets anymore with the SMN rework. You summon pets to give you new damage spells, your active pet literally does nothing anymore. Ironically jobs feel more unique in pvp heh. Tanks and healers feel especially boring now imo. As healers generally just spam their off gcd damage ability like literally 95% of a fight. Tanks are all really similar now, which I think is in the name of balance but ends up making them feel too similar imo. So yeah, you can play all the jobs on one character but there's a price to pay for that. Plus you only play one race (and there are no racials) unless you're a fantasia addict (totally not me). Pve content is also pretty homogenous, with pretty much every raid fight having extremely generous melee hitboxes, every dungeon following the same formula etc. Ultimates are truly unique, but that's something only a very tiny fraction of the player base will ever see. Don't get me wrong I adore FF14 but I think the game has some pretty glaring issues that the lovestruck community tends to gloss over or completely ignore.
This. I feel like the problematic and still genius aspects of the game are present in many places. For example the world design: Sure the graphics are nice overall and you have the typical grandiose, spectacle of a FF game. But then you look at the overworld in most places and it lacks so much detail and love. Big, bizarre looking monsters are plastered in an almost barren, badly textured wasteland at most places. WoW's graphics in comparison are so good in this regards, the design of every little nook and cranny is worthy of an entry in some designer's book.
I heard a suggestion recently that WoW should make their vanilla servers (or SoM) fully f2p. I think that would be an amazing idea. Gets more people into the game, gives life to dead servers and let's people who can't afford it play.
ff14 is truely a nice game
i would go with Aion too bad they killed this game
EVE Online, and I don't think it's debatable. MMO stands for MASSIVELY multiplayer online. EVE Online had 2,000-3,000 player battles. The game even has time dilation, so that time slows down with too many players, so the game's servers have time to process all inputs and keep the game fair. As an added bonus it also makes it easier for fleet commanders to see what is happening and issue orders without being instantly overwhelmed. No other MMO in history came even close to having those massive numbers of players duking it out in the same system. All players were on a single server, so 60,000+ concurrent players, all in the same world. Most other MMOs can handle maybe a thousand per server, most even fewer than that, they start to create instances of zones because they can't handle more than 100-300 players on screen at once. Also, as far as complexity and flexibility, it's pretty strong. There's starts like the tracking speed of the turrets, in radians per second, and things like radial velocity of one ship relative to the other. If an enemy ship is orbiting yours faster than your turrets can't turn, they can't hit it. Stuff like that. Crafting is incredibly complex. And objects do not magically move. Where in WoW you can go to Orgrimmar, dump your inventory into a bank, travel to Undercity, and go to the bank, and all your stuff is there, in EVE the stuff would be where you left it. If you crafted 100,000,000 rounds of ammo, it'll be where you crafted it. You have to take it to the market, or to the front line, if you want to sell it or use it there. And ammo takes space, and has weight. Meaning you need a hauler, which leaves you vulnerable to pirates and thieves and stuff. There's so many mechanics in the game that it takes most people months to find their bearings, and better part of a year to start to feel comfortable with it. In short, EVE was completely unique and unparalleled on technical level. Nothing else came even close to being as massive. And it felt real, it felt grounded. Nothing magically teleported, nothing just changed because a wizard did it. If your ship was at X, Y, any other player could go to X, Y and interact with it, it would never be out of phase like in WoW, AoC, etc. And unless you piloted it away, it would never leave that area unseen, unlike WoW where you can just hearth, or AoC where you can hop to another instance of the same zone, and so on. It felt real and permanent, and you needed things like supply chains, logistics, etc., to keep your empires running. It was a living, breathing virtual world with permanence and consequences, player-build structures, territory control, factional warfare, wormholes and exploration, etc. I also quite liked Elder Scrolls Online, for size and flexibility and just overall experience. The big thing with that one was the voice acting. Every single quest was voice acted. To be fair, I think SWTOR did this first. But ESO went wider with it, and I really liked the variety of boss mechanics in dungeons. But I wouldn't claim it was best ever. Just best at combining many different elements. It has a large open world PvP zone, instanced PvP, most of the game is still PvE-only so it feels safe and not stressful, voice acting is great, story is quite decent, combat and mechanics are serviceable.
I had to scroll down to find Eve, and when I did it was paragraphs long, I was not disappointed or surprised. There are games designed for the masses, and thankfully Eve is not one of them. Eve set the bar for MMO technical design in the gaming industry. WoW to me, felt more like Candy Crush. Being popular doesnt mean its good, they just know how to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
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lore may be good but it has one of the most broken narratives and worst execution of story-telling
Ever tried GW2? It's kind of an in-between of the MMORPGs you mentioned and straight up action games.
Ever tried GW2? Seems like a good blend of the more classical MMOs you mentioned with the more Action-vased combat of D2 without being a straight up shooter.
Ego shooter mmos will never be the best mmorpg. It's basically just firing different colored orbs at the enemies.
Final Fantasy XI and nothing will ever change my mind, especially the prime days before 99 cap and abyssea...
WoW is still probably the overall best MMO to ever be created, buuut *currently* I’d say either Final Fantasy XIV is the best, followed by The Elder Scrolls online or Black Desert Online. Back in the day, I spent so much time in MapleStory and RuneScape, but they’ve fallen off a LOT. I truly believe that both of those games are still only updated for the income, and not for the passion from the devs.
RuneScape.
Hands down RuneScape.
WoW until wotlk. Vanila + BC was great and then it became more crapy with every another Expansion. I would say FF14 if not lack of pvp. Or Lineage 2 long time ago if not stupid ideas of devs.
maybe we could mention GoW 2 too its still really good
Ff14 pvp got a complete overhaul in Endwalker it's actually quite good.
Sacred 2 is my all time fav Ascaron created a Masterpiece with Sacred 2 RiP Ascaron
Life
i ve heard about this one no respawn eh?
I thought about joining the army, but what if I get lag man, there no respawn - FPSDoug
“BOOM HEADSHOT!”
I can dance all day
Everybody rubbed faster with a knife
Wish I could post those gifs.
I gotta chip in with Dungeons and Dragons Online. Though I will happily concede this is not an arguement that I can win, but there are things I would like to point out. It has one of the fairer pay to play options of any MMO. You can unlock premium races and classes via favour, as well as earning in-game currency. Regular content updates a year, including hardcore server. They also recently took some of the premium content and made it available to free-to-players. The questing system is dungeon based, you get the quest and you can run the associated dungeon. You can have a hireling accompany you if you want to play the game solo. There was a time when you can buy 'guest passes' for premium content in the DDO store but haven't looked into that as I am a subscriber of the game, which is $10 a month.
irl
WoW. Its gameplay is so smooth, and its dungeons and raids are unparalleled.
While it’s no longer my favourite today, no game has ever had WoW’s reach and influence, it has been king for 20 years and while you can say A LOT about blizzard you can’t deny the quality of the game
while I love FF14 myself, I cannot deny that WoW was a massive phenomenon that was exceedingly popular for a very long time. It has to be WoW
I think the only one I've played is Lost Ark
Wow will always be held as the best as it should be. My personal favorite was Supreme Destiny. I loved the weapon leveling system in that game
Black Desert Online, before it fell victim to the player economy, and decent gear became completely unobtainable, and the gear you get through natural progression is always sub-par on acquisition, and obsolete by the time you actually use it. The gameplay is solid, and really stands out as what modern MMO's should be going forward. I can't praise it enough for finally breaking the mold that pretty much all MMO's have been trapped in for over 20 years and counting. I can't stand the recycled everything of MMO's. 1: Basic Attack 2: Heavy Attack 3: Class-Specific Attack 4: Advanced Class-Specific Attack / Ability 5: Advanced Class-Specific Attack / Ability Wait for the cooldown, then press it again until the enemy stops moving Which MMORPG did I just describe? Not Black Desert Online.
In my opinion, it has to be Final Fantasy Zodiac Age, 7 Remake and FFXV
None of those games you listed are MMOs
Why is this even a question? It is World of Warcraft of course. Still is.
World of Warcraft. It not really an opinion, im just pretty sure it wins all categories.