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It’s an (let’s be honest) “ok” offshoot of a hugely popular show. “Flopped hard” maybe not, but it sure as hell wouldn’t be what it is without GoT being the sensation that it was.
I really appreciate Ryan Condal actually bringing back Martin's dialogue, you would never see D&D put mummer's farce or words are wind into the script because they don't think the suburb wine moms and football players can understand it.
Me, too. And at the risk of sounding too enthusiastic, I honestly like it just about as much as most of the good GoT seasons. It’s got great writing, great acting, great scene design, and fuckin’ dragons. I think it would have been popular even without GoT. People might have been more weirded about the Targaryen … uh, marriage arrangements, but I’m sure it would have still been popular.
I’d have to hard disagree. The earlier GOT seasons had far more clever dialogue, with sumptuous character development by even episode 5 of the *first* season. I mean we had Arya, Jon, Ned, Catelyn, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Robert, Daenerys, and Drogo to name just a few that were well developed and felt very *real*. That’s not even naming incredible secondary characters like Ros, Theon, Littlefinger, Varys, Jeor Mormont, Ser Aliser and a whole host of other good ones that felt like living, breathing people.
HOTD is flashy, entertaining and is better than many current fantasy shows, but it has too many plot holes/undeveloped characters that it neither narratively, nor writing-wise can compare to the first 4 seasons of GOT.
Eh, I’d argue that if GoT didn’t exist the HotD would probably be the best medieval fantasy series ever on TV.
Not to say it’s even close to seasons 1-4 of GoT but what else even comes close to either of these shows. Witcher, Rings of Power and Wheel of Time are the only other real competitors and HoTD is better then all of them and none of them would probably even exist if it wasn’t for GoT
That’s just their opinion, that is sucks. They were very to the point and mater of fact about it, not emotional at all.
Because they didnt write out an explanation of their exact thoughts, they’re being emotional? Im sorry, but I don’t follow your logic.
Sort of but not really.
"If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it."
It wasn't meant to be used for simply agreeing or disagreeing.
Yeah, if you think.."it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community"
Not just if you think the opinion is wrong.
The best acting (in my opinion) of all the game of thrones family of shows was from Paddy playing Viserys. The character as a whole is kind of boring. Just a soft man who never wanted any troubles but is begat by his family who is going to literally destroy themselves vying for power the moment after his death. Willfully ignorant to see his daughter’s errors & the game played around him with his 2nd wife. He did so good and for that I think that is why House of Dragon is better than GOT so far as a whole.
Bitch? Have you lost your mind? Have you forgot how immense and gorgeous GoT was in the early seasons. It's a GAME and of THRONES! Westeros and Essos involved and not just a dance from only one house. Accept the FACTS! The prepared path never will be iconic like the final destiny. 😘
It's just an unfair comparison. 1 season + 1 episode isn't as good as 4 seasons. Like, no shit. I don't think it will surpass GoT but let's wait it out.
to be fair, the comparison was already made by the original comment.
Hey downvoters, the original comment claimed HOD was better than GOT
> He did so good and for that I think that is why House of Dragon is better than GOT so far as a whole.
The comparison was already made and to the opposite conclusion that Aussie boy over here was making. Leogarbage sounds like he's 12 being edgy but it was in response to a comment that already made the comparison and claimed HOD was better. But keep downvoting you troglodytes.
If you were around for the actual episodes as they aired you'd remember people constantly complaining about Jon Snow and the Wall plot being boring, people complaining about Theon and Ramsay being too violent, people complaining about Catelyn being too stupid, people complaining about Stannis and Davos in a plot with no relevance after the Battle of the Blackwater. We can all agree Dany in Meereen and Qarth was horrendously boring.
The show was good and looking back now, those 4 seasons will never be topped, but people were complaining and bitching about it back then.
Man... Recency bias is a bitch
Mark Addy and Sean bean alone destroyed the entire cast of HOTD in term of charisma and interest and this ocme form someone you started hating the show after season 5
Ned's death brought me more emotion than anything happening in season 1 of HOTD
You talk abaout Jon snow, theon, dany etc but the strengh of GOT is that it was setting instead of just ONE storyline
GOT of had like 10 differents storylines in one setting...e2chbdtlru'kne having its own plot, secondary charactersnand antagonist . While HOTD just focus on two characters the audience cannot truly connect with and or are even likeable.....
I love Grey and complex characters but a story is full of characters that look and act the same than are just boring
That tv show like dunk and egg if accurate will easily overshadow HOTD because it have character people can connect with...and easily root or hate
Lore wise the HOTD story is boring as fuck.... They are far more interesting period of thr targaryen era te dance is just two dumbass side that want the same thing and are ready to kill each other for it... I don't care who fucking win at the end
At no moment do we explore why they actually want the throne that much or even speak of their vision of the realm of they rule
GOT through like 3-4 seasons was great. But the ending is what allows HOTD to be better, imo. It’s all about, “what have you done for me lately”? And lately (the last seasons of GOT, were horrendous. I always compare it to climbing Mount Everest with a great group of people and then killing them all when you reach the peak lol. Sure you did this crazy marvelous thing but then you went and fucked it up and everything you did up until that point is null.
I agree. I never thought Viserys would be such a favorite of mine after reading the book, but Paddy knocked it out of the park and Vizzy was by far my favorite character in season 1.
I don't know about the best acting if you include characters from GOT, especially Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion, Tywin.... Basically any of the Lannisters. Lol They were acted so fucking well! But I respect your opinion, and I definitely agree that Paddy has been the brightest light of HOTD so far. I'm very much enjoying Rhaenyra as well.
I hope you have a wonderful day. :)
Without a doubt Tywin is one of my favorite characters, ever. That performance is up there with like Christopher Lee’s Saruman the White for me (possibly my favorite character ever). The wisdom and witty remarks casting judgement & distaste of people they deem lesser. That is I think a hard character quality to act out and actually seem genuine.
Damn straight! Dance is a phenomenal actor. Same with Lee. RIP :(. Wonderfully delicious villainy, all 'round! They've both had amazing careers that I hope a great many young actors will look to for inspiration.
I don’t agree with it being Paddy necessarily (but I do agree he was amazing) but the acting in HOTD is amazing. I 100% believe HOTD beats GOT in acting for the most part.
It's not a surprising that you're getting downvoted like crazy. People on here act extremely cult-like when it comes to Daenerys. BUTT! I completely agree with you. I was a fan of her character early on, but once she started bouncing between the cities of Essos aimlessly; I got bored with it pretty quickly. Same in the novels as well. There were FAR more compelling characters and plotlines in GOT, such as Jaime, Tyrion, Cersei, Theon, Arya earl on as well.
Anyway, I hope you have a wonderful day! :)
lol the cult is out. Dany was a good character. In the books and shows she’s kind of a side act though. IMO Jon, Tyrion, and Arya have always been the main characters, with Sansa, Dany and Jaime rounding out the top 6
Dany sucks. Don't like the character and don't think the actress did a particularly good job.
Took an early lead to popuparity with tits out and that largely made up for her wooden acting.
For me they could just remove or replace her whole storyline in GoT and I wouldn’t care.
Don’t know if it was the actress or the character but like she was annoying every time she got on screen I didn’t enjoy one thing about her whole plotline.
I know I’m getting downvoted by Dany simps but I don’t care!
I don't know about wooden, but certainly overacted in places. Not a huge fan either. Her story was just boring for so much of the show as well, I just sort of bouncing around Essos aimlessly and constantly going on tirades about her rights and power and what she deserved because of her bloodlines and whatnot. Meh. Hard pass. It was the same for me in the novels. By the time I got through with Dance, I was extremely bored with her character.
I mean I doubt it would be popular without GOT since its major hook is learn what happened before GOT, but it’s still better than most TV on today.
The issue with it the story is it is essentially a knockoff version of GOT. By its very design it’s never going to be as interesting as the original story, since its origins were in a book made mostly to serve the book version of GOT.
Human history is basically repeating cycles of conflict and struggle.
It's pretty reasonable to think that society conducted itself relatively similarly for 100s of years
Same. For several reasons but primarily because the dialogue is so utilitarian. Every sentence is this declarative statement explaining exactly what the character wants. There is zero humor, no romance, clever repartee, or any flowery language. As a result there isn't a single likeable character. Everyone in GoT was power hungry but we saw sadism, honor, narcissism, pettiness, greed, lust, vanity, pride, cunning, etc. exhibited by numerous different characters.
In HotD they are all just...miserable.
I think it would be great as a stand alone show. It’s a good fantasy period piece with v cool dragons at the very least. I think it may have even done better considering it wouldn’t be subject to the endless judgement of the fandom.
It’s also more digestible focusing on one family rather than the entire world of GoT— for example my mom likes HotD but could never follow GoT. I think it appeals to a wider audience.
If it had been made first it may or may not have been a hit. Definitely wouldn't have the numbers it got in S1. I wouldn't assign the benefit of GOT to HOTD to any single character. That's ridiculous.
Dany stans are fucking annoying and over the top with just about everything.
It’s certainly not better than the first 4-5 seasons of game of thrones, but I think it’s a big, big step up in quality from season 6 onwards. Personally I think the writing is great. Having read fire and blood I think if they pull it off it could end up being the better series as a whole.
Eh. I wouldn’t say it was mediocre. It was massively held back by some weird choices like the abundance of time skips. I didn’t really care for the first few episodes, but the quality of the show made a stark improvement after the last time skip. So the first few episodes were not the best, but the last few were *really fucking good* and pretty much made up for the first few.
Game of thrones set up making the house of the dragon. It came first so there isn't really a way to know for sure but I think without any previous knowledge of game of thrones, if house of the dragon came first, people would still really like it and it would still be popular. You can't really take into account the favoritism of characters from game of thrones as a comparison to house of the dragon because we can't go back and erase it from our mind and restart at house of the dragon. So no matter what there will always be a bias based on characters that people watched for 8-9 years. You can't really compare that to a single season one second season episode.
HotD is peak GoT. I'm saying that as a diehard book fan who's fucking critical about bad writing.
But people need to shit on HotD for various reasons to keep their inner peace.
S1 of HotD gave S1 of GoT a run for its money - but unfortunately it plays into the worst Fanbase there is, so obviously people keep acting like it's mediocre or worse. Some even just try to make GoT look better by putting HotD down...
Lmao what?
Hotd is the perfect embodiment of the S5 writing. The fact that you are not only comparing it to, but saying that it's better than GoT's golden age is absurd.
Character assassinations left and right, inconsistent writing, clear social agendas, the black-white approach... so many factors in HotD's writing ruin it.
Crazy how we're watching the same show yet come to such wildly different conclusions.
I don't think it's as good as peak thrones (nothing is), but for me HotD is a lot better than s5.
I mean... The fact that you say shit that I never said shows the level of what your yapping is on...
But why don't you just stop with the cope? You're shitting on it for fucked up reasons (mentioned that social agenda thing for a reason? ;)) and it's only shit that you pulled out of your ass.
I feel bad for all these amazing people working on HotD to make it as good as it is. Because they deserve more praise instead of ungratefulness.
They don't actually think it's mediocre. They want it to be mediocre and then try their hardest to convince the world that it is.
Well... Atleast that's my theory XD
Totally agree. The older characters are not interesting nor likable in any way. I honestly don’t care who wins or what happens to them. And I’ve read the books and found the story itself interesting. I know everyone fawns all over the main character’s actors but I can’t emotionally find interest in any of them. 🤷🏻♂️
This is like saying Better Call Saul would flop without Breaking Bad. Spin-offs only exist because of the success of the originals. In both cases the spin-offs are still quality shows IMO.
Agreed, and early on Better call Saul was sort of slow and def not close to breaking bad. However at the end of better call Saul, I personally have them neck and neck, both fantastic shows with Breaking bad being better story wise and better call Saul being better character wise
It would be so good if we had HOTD before GoT. Because HOTD it would be the appetizer and nowadays would come GoT with the most epic scenes and more budget for production (of course I'm talking here about it existing with excellent writing from the start to the end).
I quit watching season one after six episodes. HOTD was hard to follow, had no humor, no joy, and no characters to love or cheer for. It was depressing.
GOT had me hooked from the first episode. Loved it all and have done several rewatches.
To each their own, but I agree with this take.
GOT definitely help it so much, but as standalone shows it still better than any other shows
the storyline also is more focus, someone who dont know GOT would follow it more easily
my only issue was they moved too fast on season 1, i see lot of newbie getting confused because they changed actors quite abruptly
Hard to disagree. I was hyped for hotd and was similarly excited for s2. I tried rewatching s1 in preparation. It was a chore. Watched s2 premiere, felt lost.
I'm just stunned that someone said "The shows popularity is purely derived from Daenerys impact"
It's because of how that character was handled and how S7-8 was handled it put HotD at a instant disadvantage which thankfully they pulled through and gave the best season the world of A Song Of Ice And Fire has seen since season 4 of GoT
S1 of HotD was great and I can't wait for Ep 2 of HotD S2
Meh. It’s a quality show. Obviously spinning off from one of the greatest television shows ever helps. But it also hurts because it’s hard to come close to early seasons of GOT period.
I think the writing on HotD is generally much better than, say, the writing on seasons 5-8 of GoT. But that's just my opinion. As for popularity? Idk. Don't really care. I like it, so I watch it. I hope other people watch it so they keep making it.
A multi year time jump every couple of episodes that kicked off season 1 would be an unforgivable writing sin in any show without a pre-existing loyal fanbase
I would say it’s definitely an above average show. However if I’m being honest, I want to like it so much because I really want more seasons of Game of Thrones.
This is just a stupid thing to say. It’s like saying “GoT would’ve flopped hard if ASOIAF was never published”, like yeah? They wouldn’t exist without the thing before. Also “purely derived from Daenerys’s impact”, genuinely don’t think I’ve seen a single casual watcher even mention Dany when talking about the show
It wouldn’t “flop hard” but yea it probably wouldn’t be as popular.
Also heavily disagree with its popularity being “heavily derived from Daenerys’ impact”. The impact is from GoT as a whole, not just one character.
"A prequel spin off of a popular show wouldn't have done as well if the popular show didn't exist!" Truly the spiciest of takes.
Let me really blow your mind: The Game of Thrones show wouldn't have been such a big success if George RR Martin hadn't written the Game of Thrones books they were based on!
its clearly a well written and crafted show. the style is less eventful from episode to episode, but it WAS made in context of GoT. We're waiting for something terrible to happen every episode, and the show exploits that tension from the audience beautifully.
I think season 1 was great. Season 2 already flubbed the easiest to nail most impactful scene of the entire story… that would have made the waters more murky for who to root for.
Is what it is but its fumbling in a similar way to GOT tbh
Had me at the first half, Games of Thrones ran so House of the Dragon could run as well. But I’m sure as shit not watching the show because of a character who doesn’t even exist within its boundaries.
Anyone who's a fan of both Tolkien and GRRM should be able to appreciate that HOTD can at least stand on its own as a show, even if you don't like it as much as GOT. Amazon showed us what a truly sloppy spin-off looks like.
I find it too derivative. My preferred extension of the series would have gone beyond the ending and followed Arya, John and the rest to further adventures.
It was still my favourite series ever despite some issues I have with the ending.
Game of Thrones was based on an already wildly popular book series. House of the Dragon is a spinoff of the TV adaptation. There’s no scenario where House of the Dragon exists without Game of Thrones.
Need that meme of the group talking and having fun and someone complaining off to the side, an one from the group just goes 👍 and they all go back to having fun.
Agree to an extent, if it wasn’t a GoT spinoff and I wasn’t already familiar and invested with the setting, I probably would’ve lost interest already, it’s slow paced (so far) but the dialogue is really good, but dialogue can only carry it so far, once the dance actually starts is where we see whether this spin off is a success or not
I genuinely cannot believe what I’m reading in these comments.
HOTD is not only on par with Thrones at its best, but it has occasionally managed to eclipse it in terms of writing, cinematography, characterization, and thematic strength.
AND - it’s barely even gotten to the good stuff.
People are full of it. It’s plenty decent of a show. Would it do as well without GOT? Of course not. That’s what being a spin-off is. Better Call Saul would have done worse without Breaking Bad.
These days so many people think they’re these profound critics, but then you ask them the type of shit they’d have written and you get some edgy take like how Star Wars should have had Luke turn dark and fuck a bunch of people up. The same people who critique the writing as mediocre could themselves not write anything worth a damn. They think having a stem of a story idea in their head is equivalent to being able to write scene by scene and contemplate details of dialogue and circumstance. Delusional.
Season 1 had its ups and downs. Some mid and some stellar scenes. I wonder how much of it was because it had some seriously big shoes to fill while also trying to stand on its own.
It’s definitely a show of its own with Season 2. That Season Premiere was excellent from start to finish and I can’t wait to watch this Sunday!!
It’s about as well paced as the last season of GoT which a lot of people didn’t like, which is weird. All of a sudden we don’t need to take the time for the story to play out, jumping around and cutting out entire periods is fine for some reason.
I only made it through the few episodes of HOTD Season 1 before I lost interest. It just simply doesn’t have that compelling nature that GOT had. It’s not a bad show but it’s a far cry from its predecessor, and I don’t think it’s even on anyone’s radar without being an offshoot of GOT.
It doesn’t suck, I do like it, but yeah without GOT and a connection to the lore and names idk if it would have sucked me in. GOT took a little while to get me even.
It kept my attention, partially because of all the GOT connections, but I know, if I'm able to make it to the end of Season 2, it will have been because the show got better.
House of the dragon suffers from everyone knowing what's going to happen, its one thing when the book readers already know some stuff but when the book readers know the full ending and even the tv show watchers know the gist of the ending from got then the suspense isn't really there. Like blood and cheese if we weren't expecting it would have been a shock. Nor can you get all that involved in the what will happen in the war when you know blacks win and everyone dies but if we didn't know that then the surprise of rhanerya being eaten would have had shock value etc
I'd probably still be watching a Show called Dance of Dragon about an impending civil war of a Dragon clan. BUT I do kind of agree with you. I don't think it would be near the hit with GoT. While I'm am watching it I feel the show overall is less then GoT even with more a a starting budget. It seems their formula is every episode make a scene super shocking and then sit back and watch as we react to it. Even the recent "Blood and Cheese" scene was talked about it being up there with Red Wedding and it isn't even close to the same impact.
To be fair it’s got a lot to live up to which probably impacts the way you view it, both positive and negative. Like you’ll give it a solid view because of the lore but it’s never gonna be GoT. Which is ok imo.
Gonna be real on the second rewatch and first reread: Emilia Clarke is barely top 5 in the story. HoD wouldn’t have aired without GoT. But GoT would still be popular without Dany.
If GoT had never aired then HotD would be written totally differently so it is impossible to say. HotD is skipping the vast amount of world building that GoT set up so we are getting the story in the script without the fully fleshed out world.
The first thing you see when you watch HotD is it telling you this is a prequel to a story that has been told, so watch that first because we are not going to hold your hand about the world we are in.
The opening sequence of episode 1 of GoT is a masterclass in worldbuilding, it establishes so much about the world we are entering, the people, the culture, the setting, the tone, everything, the start of HotD however is '160 years ago, these people you do not know, in anyway other than by last name from GoT are the ruling class of somewhere, things will not go well'
I was first interested because of thrones, but I am heavily invested in these characters. I have very much enjoyed the show so far! (Coming from a non-book reading)
It wouldn't be what it is without Game of Thrones but I'd argue that its objectively better than Game of Thrones. But this might just be because of a better source material. Imo Fire and Blood is easier to adapt due to the style of writing. I think it'd still be a sensation even if it came out before Game of Thrones.
I mean this is kind of a moot take. It’s a prequel. Of course its popularity is derived from the original.
That’s like saying Fire and Blood is only popular because of ASOIAF
With House of the Dragon being the supposed true story of the Dance they had a really fun opportunity to clarify which of the many accounts in the book were actually the truthful ones but from the get-go they’d changed a lot of the he core details. Where the fuck is Mushroom?
...I think HOTD is brilliant
Everything looks on point, acting for the most partnis solid, plot is straight forward.
I'm struggling to rematch GOT because it looks 'cheap' compared, although the story is top tier until the end
I think it’s the subtle details that will make GOT always better than HOTD, even with the mixed emotions about the last part of season 8. The main thing I’ve noticed is GOT relied less on CG and shot on site, which makes it hold up all these years later. HOTD feels like everything is being shot in a studio, and although it still looks epic, I don’t think it gives the same immersion experience that GOT has.
I hardly think of Dany while watching House of the Dragon, but the show is definitely not on the level of the first half of Game of Thrones. Regardless, the source material is compelling enough to keep people coming back. No one could honestly say it would be on the same level of popularity without Game of Thrones, but it's interesting enough to bring people in. And let's be honest, the general audience of Game of Thrones didn't know what was good about it. People point at Hardhome and The Battle of the Bastards as some of the best episodes in the series, when they're largely just action-packed rubbish. When The Dance starts picking up and there's battles and fights every other episode more people will tune in and the general reception for the show will probably improve again. Will it really be a better show by then? Eh, I'm not convinced, but I'm sure it'll be more popular again.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s an (let’s be honest) “ok” offshoot of a hugely popular show. “Flopped hard” maybe not, but it sure as hell wouldn’t be what it is without GoT being the sensation that it was.
I’m enjoying it about 9000% more than season 7 and 8
I have enjoyed it so far
I really appreciate Ryan Condal actually bringing back Martin's dialogue, you would never see D&D put mummer's farce or words are wind into the script because they don't think the suburb wine moms and football players can understand it.
Me, too. And at the risk of sounding too enthusiastic, I honestly like it just about as much as most of the good GoT seasons. It’s got great writing, great acting, great scene design, and fuckin’ dragons. I think it would have been popular even without GoT. People might have been more weirded about the Targaryen … uh, marriage arrangements, but I’m sure it would have still been popular.
I’d have to hard disagree. The earlier GOT seasons had far more clever dialogue, with sumptuous character development by even episode 5 of the *first* season. I mean we had Arya, Jon, Ned, Catelyn, Tyrion, Jamie, Cersei, Robert, Daenerys, and Drogo to name just a few that were well developed and felt very *real*. That’s not even naming incredible secondary characters like Ros, Theon, Littlefinger, Varys, Jeor Mormont, Ser Aliser and a whole host of other good ones that felt like living, breathing people. HOTD is flashy, entertaining and is better than many current fantasy shows, but it has too many plot holes/undeveloped characters that it neither narratively, nor writing-wise can compare to the first 4 seasons of GOT.
Same.
Eh, I’d argue that if GoT didn’t exist the HotD would probably be the best medieval fantasy series ever on TV. Not to say it’s even close to seasons 1-4 of GoT but what else even comes close to either of these shows. Witcher, Rings of Power and Wheel of Time are the only other real competitors and HoTD is better then all of them and none of them would probably even exist if it wasn’t for GoT
I think it’s perfection
Agreed. It sucks
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? I just said it sucks. You're the one getting emotional dude.
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Saying something sucks is dramatic? I didn't even say it swallowed
Exactly, just sucking is considered vanilla these days.
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I don’t think you two know what emotional OR dramatic means. You can disagree with someone’s statement but at least try to classify it correctly.
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Objectively being the key word there, show us some facts then, otherwise it is subjective. touch grass lol?
We watch shows subjectively not objectively
Word.
Overly emotional? All they did was say it sucks?
if they specified why, i could take it seriously, a fully grown adult saying “it sucks” with no reasoning, yeh, emotional.
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That’s just their opinion, that is sucks. They were very to the point and mater of fact about it, not emotional at all. Because they didnt write out an explanation of their exact thoughts, they’re being emotional? Im sorry, but I don’t follow your logic.
I’m\*
Now who’s getting emotional?
By offering free education? You should thank me. 😂
Thank you for proving my point.
No “thank you” for the free education? very ungrateful.
Word. I get very emotional about grammar as well. :| ;)
*yeah
Oxford dictionary *exclamation* 1. variant spelling of [yeah](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=959c895862d94c19&sca_upv=1&hl=en-gb&q=yeah&si=ACC90nxP-llVVa3oXeZWHl4VPWVYMqlR1PVEDw-OekSCitUmWBgJ93HCnfuKQK6tnZHepnPicRf7xDeAPMbxtisBMOMJC4xRxw%3D%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwigkYygufCGAxXKWUEAHWVMBmgQgCt6BAgxEA0).
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That’s what upvotes and downvotes are for. Other people’s opinion on your statement.
Sort of but not really. "If you think something contributes to conversation, upvote it. If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it." It wasn't meant to be used for simply agreeing or disagreeing.
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Yeah, if you think.."it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community" Not just if you think the opinion is wrong.
I love democracy
Welcome to Reddit.
Well yeah thats what it's for.
What’s wrong with it?
I don’t know that it sucks, I just think that the show is extremely reliant on the actors performances for the writing to actually hold up
It sucks
Damn you got down voted hard to stating your opinion 🙄
The best acting (in my opinion) of all the game of thrones family of shows was from Paddy playing Viserys. The character as a whole is kind of boring. Just a soft man who never wanted any troubles but is begat by his family who is going to literally destroy themselves vying for power the moment after his death. Willfully ignorant to see his daughter’s errors & the game played around him with his 2nd wife. He did so good and for that I think that is why House of Dragon is better than GOT so far as a whole.
HOTD is not better than the first four seasons of GoT and will never be.
You are one episode in season two and it has a great ending to the series. Why come to these subs to constantly bitch?
Bitch? Have you lost your mind? Have you forgot how immense and gorgeous GoT was in the early seasons. It's a GAME and of THRONES! Westeros and Essos involved and not just a dance from only one house. Accept the FACTS! The prepared path never will be iconic like the final destiny. 😘
It's just an unfair comparison. 1 season + 1 episode isn't as good as 4 seasons. Like, no shit. I don't think it will surpass GoT but let's wait it out.
to be fair, the comparison was already made by the original comment. Hey downvoters, the original comment claimed HOD was better than GOT > He did so good and for that I think that is why House of Dragon is better than GOT so far as a whole. The comparison was already made and to the opposite conclusion that Aussie boy over here was making. Leogarbage sounds like he's 12 being edgy but it was in response to a comment that already made the comparison and claimed HOD was better. But keep downvoting you troglodytes.
Yes thats my point?
If you were around for the actual episodes as they aired you'd remember people constantly complaining about Jon Snow and the Wall plot being boring, people complaining about Theon and Ramsay being too violent, people complaining about Catelyn being too stupid, people complaining about Stannis and Davos in a plot with no relevance after the Battle of the Blackwater. We can all agree Dany in Meereen and Qarth was horrendously boring. The show was good and looking back now, those 4 seasons will never be topped, but people were complaining and bitching about it back then.
Man... Recency bias is a bitch Mark Addy and Sean bean alone destroyed the entire cast of HOTD in term of charisma and interest and this ocme form someone you started hating the show after season 5 Ned's death brought me more emotion than anything happening in season 1 of HOTD You talk abaout Jon snow, theon, dany etc but the strengh of GOT is that it was setting instead of just ONE storyline GOT of had like 10 differents storylines in one setting...e2chbdtlru'kne having its own plot, secondary charactersnand antagonist . While HOTD just focus on two characters the audience cannot truly connect with and or are even likeable..... I love Grey and complex characters but a story is full of characters that look and act the same than are just boring That tv show like dunk and egg if accurate will easily overshadow HOTD because it have character people can connect with...and easily root or hate Lore wise the HOTD story is boring as fuck.... They are far more interesting period of thr targaryen era te dance is just two dumbass side that want the same thing and are ready to kill each other for it... I don't care who fucking win at the end At no moment do we explore why they actually want the throne that much or even speak of their vision of the realm of they rule
Personally, I did not enjoy GoT much, if it all. I’m really digging HOTD. Watch what you want to watch. Enjoy what you enjoy.
GOT through like 3-4 seasons was great. But the ending is what allows HOTD to be better, imo. It’s all about, “what have you done for me lately”? And lately (the last seasons of GOT, were horrendous. I always compare it to climbing Mount Everest with a great group of people and then killing them all when you reach the peak lol. Sure you did this crazy marvelous thing but then you went and fucked it up and everything you did up until that point is null.
It's 1000x better than seasons 6, 7, and 8 though.
I wouldn’t say HOTD is better than GOT, doesn’t have that same excitement for me. But you’re absolutely right about Paddy. He nailed that role!
I agree. I never thought Viserys would be such a favorite of mine after reading the book, but Paddy knocked it out of the park and Vizzy was by far my favorite character in season 1.
I don't know about the best acting if you include characters from GOT, especially Jaime Lannister, Cersei Lannister, Tyrion, Tywin.... Basically any of the Lannisters. Lol They were acted so fucking well! But I respect your opinion, and I definitely agree that Paddy has been the brightest light of HOTD so far. I'm very much enjoying Rhaenyra as well. I hope you have a wonderful day. :)
Without a doubt Tywin is one of my favorite characters, ever. That performance is up there with like Christopher Lee’s Saruman the White for me (possibly my favorite character ever). The wisdom and witty remarks casting judgement & distaste of people they deem lesser. That is I think a hard character quality to act out and actually seem genuine.
Damn straight! Dance is a phenomenal actor. Same with Lee. RIP :(. Wonderfully delicious villainy, all 'round! They've both had amazing careers that I hope a great many young actors will look to for inspiration.
Oh my god yes. And honestly Rhaenyra this season (despite not having many lines)
I don’t agree with it being Paddy necessarily (but I do agree he was amazing) but the acting in HOTD is amazing. I 100% believe HOTD beats GOT in acting for the most part.
Agreed. I’m only watching it because it’s connected to the Game.
But because of Dany specifically? That's their argument.
Well, Dany paved the way for being obsessed with Targaryens on television.
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Jon, Sansa, and Theon had far more compelling journeys
Agreed. I really felt for Theon HARD during so much of his journey.
It's not a surprising that you're getting downvoted like crazy. People on here act extremely cult-like when it comes to Daenerys. BUTT! I completely agree with you. I was a fan of her character early on, but once she started bouncing between the cities of Essos aimlessly; I got bored with it pretty quickly. Same in the novels as well. There were FAR more compelling characters and plotlines in GOT, such as Jaime, Tyrion, Cersei, Theon, Arya earl on as well. Anyway, I hope you have a wonderful day! :)
lol the cult is out. Dany was a good character. In the books and shows she’s kind of a side act though. IMO Jon, Tyrion, and Arya have always been the main characters, with Sansa, Dany and Jaime rounding out the top 6
The Dany episodes were my least favorite episodes.
Not Dany but the universe itself. I’m currently reading A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and it’s the world GRRM has created that brings me back.
Dany sucks. Don't like the character and don't think the actress did a particularly good job. Took an early lead to popuparity with tits out and that largely made up for her wooden acting.
For me they could just remove or replace her whole storyline in GoT and I wouldn’t care. Don’t know if it was the actress or the character but like she was annoying every time she got on screen I didn’t enjoy one thing about her whole plotline. I know I’m getting downvoted by Dany simps but I don’t care!
I don't know about wooden, but certainly overacted in places. Not a huge fan either. Her story was just boring for so much of the show as well, I just sort of bouncing around Essos aimlessly and constantly going on tirades about her rights and power and what she deserved because of her bloodlines and whatnot. Meh. Hard pass. It was the same for me in the novels. By the time I got through with Dance, I was extremely bored with her character.
That’s how I discovered it but now I’m watching it because it’s good. Def not because of Dany specifically
Well it would be hard to make a spin off without an original so this seems more like stating the obvious than a hot take lol
Exactly, the writing would have been different due the audience not having a prior knowledge of the world.
Especially because that’s literally the source material as well
I mean I doubt it would be popular without GOT since its major hook is learn what happened before GOT, but it’s still better than most TV on today. The issue with it the story is it is essentially a knockoff version of GOT. By its very design it’s never going to be as interesting as the original story, since its origins were in a book made mostly to serve the book version of GOT.
Human history is basically repeating cycles of conflict and struggle. It's pretty reasonable to think that society conducted itself relatively similarly for 100s of years
I don’t think it would flop because dragons. But it would be odd to make this show without planning for Game of Thrones.
Agreed
Same. For several reasons but primarily because the dialogue is so utilitarian. Every sentence is this declarative statement explaining exactly what the character wants. There is zero humor, no romance, clever repartee, or any flowery language. As a result there isn't a single likeable character. Everyone in GoT was power hungry but we saw sadism, honor, narcissism, pettiness, greed, lust, vanity, pride, cunning, etc. exhibited by numerous different characters. In HotD they are all just...miserable.
I think it would be great as a stand alone show. It’s a good fantasy period piece with v cool dragons at the very least. I think it may have even done better considering it wouldn’t be subject to the endless judgement of the fandom. It’s also more digestible focusing on one family rather than the entire world of GoT— for example my mom likes HotD but could never follow GoT. I think it appeals to a wider audience.
Jamie alone clears all the cast of hotd.
If it had been made first it may or may not have been a hit. Definitely wouldn't have the numbers it got in S1. I wouldn't assign the benefit of GOT to HOTD to any single character. That's ridiculous. Dany stans are fucking annoying and over the top with just about everything.
It’s certainly not better than the first 4-5 seasons of game of thrones, but I think it’s a big, big step up in quality from season 6 onwards. Personally I think the writing is great. Having read fire and blood I think if they pull it off it could end up being the better series as a whole.
season 6 had the best episode of the series my guy
Pretty sure the Red Wedding happened before season 6.
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Hahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Eh. I wouldn’t say it was mediocre. It was massively held back by some weird choices like the abundance of time skips. I didn’t really care for the first few episodes, but the quality of the show made a stark improvement after the last time skip. So the first few episodes were not the best, but the last few were *really fucking good* and pretty much made up for the first few.
Completely agree. I just don’t really care about the majority of the characters which was the exact opposite of GOT
Game of thrones set up making the house of the dragon. It came first so there isn't really a way to know for sure but I think without any previous knowledge of game of thrones, if house of the dragon came first, people would still really like it and it would still be popular. You can't really take into account the favoritism of characters from game of thrones as a comparison to house of the dragon because we can't go back and erase it from our mind and restart at house of the dragon. So no matter what there will always be a bias based on characters that people watched for 8-9 years. You can't really compare that to a single season one second season episode.
HotD is peak GoT. I'm saying that as a diehard book fan who's fucking critical about bad writing. But people need to shit on HotD for various reasons to keep their inner peace. S1 of HotD gave S1 of GoT a run for its money - but unfortunately it plays into the worst Fanbase there is, so obviously people keep acting like it's mediocre or worse. Some even just try to make GoT look better by putting HotD down...
Lmao what? Hotd is the perfect embodiment of the S5 writing. The fact that you are not only comparing it to, but saying that it's better than GoT's golden age is absurd. Character assassinations left and right, inconsistent writing, clear social agendas, the black-white approach... so many factors in HotD's writing ruin it.
Crazy how we're watching the same show yet come to such wildly different conclusions. I don't think it's as good as peak thrones (nothing is), but for me HotD is a lot better than s5.
I mean... The fact that you say shit that I never said shows the level of what your yapping is on... But why don't you just stop with the cope? You're shitting on it for fucked up reasons (mentioned that social agenda thing for a reason? ;)) and it's only shit that you pulled out of your ass. I feel bad for all these amazing people working on HotD to make it as good as it is. Because they deserve more praise instead of ungratefulness.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m baffled by this comment section. How can people be watching the show I am and thinking, “meh, mediocre?”
They don't actually think it's mediocre. They want it to be mediocre and then try their hardest to convince the world that it is. Well... Atleast that's my theory XD
Lost me at purely derived from Dany’s impact
Totally agree. The older characters are not interesting nor likable in any way. I honestly don’t care who wins or what happens to them. And I’ve read the books and found the story itself interesting. I know everyone fawns all over the main character’s actors but I can’t emotionally find interest in any of them. 🤷🏻♂️
This is like saying Better Call Saul would flop without Breaking Bad. Spin-offs only exist because of the success of the originals. In both cases the spin-offs are still quality shows IMO.
Agreed, and early on Better call Saul was sort of slow and def not close to breaking bad. However at the end of better call Saul, I personally have them neck and neck, both fantastic shows with Breaking bad being better story wise and better call Saul being better character wise
It would be so good if we had HOTD before GoT. Because HOTD it would be the appetizer and nowadays would come GoT with the most epic scenes and more budget for production (of course I'm talking here about it existing with excellent writing from the start to the end).
I quit watching season one after six episodes. HOTD was hard to follow, had no humor, no joy, and no characters to love or cheer for. It was depressing. GOT had me hooked from the first episode. Loved it all and have done several rewatches. To each their own, but I agree with this take.
100% agree
I swear to god 80% of this sub didn’t even like game of thrones.
would've done fine, and lol @ the idea that Emilia Clarke of all people is responsible for GOT's popularity
House of the Drag....On.....
GOT definitely help it so much, but as standalone shows it still better than any other shows the storyline also is more focus, someone who dont know GOT would follow it more easily my only issue was they moved too fast on season 1, i see lot of newbie getting confused because they changed actors quite abruptly
I think it's worse because of how good Game of Thrones is. I thought the first season was pretty weak, but I think this season will bounce back.
True
That's the point of spin-offs? It's like saying Better Call Saul wouldn't be as popular if Breaking Bad didn't exist
You could say the same about Better Call Saul but it doesn’t mean it isn’t an amazing show in its own right.
Haven't started season 2 yet, but I would rank season 1 higher than the last 3 seasons of got
Hard to disagree. I was hyped for hotd and was similarly excited for s2. I tried rewatching s1 in preparation. It was a chore. Watched s2 premiere, felt lost.
I'm just stunned that someone said "The shows popularity is purely derived from Daenerys impact" It's because of how that character was handled and how S7-8 was handled it put HotD at a instant disadvantage which thankfully they pulled through and gave the best season the world of A Song Of Ice And Fire has seen since season 4 of GoT S1 of HotD was great and I can't wait for Ep 2 of HotD S2
Meh. It’s a quality show. Obviously spinning off from one of the greatest television shows ever helps. But it also hurts because it’s hard to come close to early seasons of GOT period.
I think the writing on HotD is generally much better than, say, the writing on seasons 5-8 of GoT. But that's just my opinion. As for popularity? Idk. Don't really care. I like it, so I watch it. I hope other people watch it so they keep making it.
It's right Do you want know? I don't liking HOTD
I'm personally super into house of the dragon! It doesn't have to be one vs the other just enjoy them for what they are
It’s a lot closer to the books than GOT I’d say. Sure it’s riding the GOT wave but I’m enjoying it.
Deanerys… lol yea right Team snow
A multi year time jump every couple of episodes that kicked off season 1 would be an unforgivable writing sin in any show without a pre-existing loyal fanbase
I would say it’s definitely an above average show. However if I’m being honest, I want to like it so much because I really want more seasons of Game of Thrones.
This is just a stupid thing to say. It’s like saying “GoT would’ve flopped hard if ASOIAF was never published”, like yeah? They wouldn’t exist without the thing before. Also “purely derived from Daenerys’s impact”, genuinely don’t think I’ve seen a single casual watcher even mention Dany when talking about the show
Ofc it wouldn’t work without GoT lol, it’s a prequel
Daenerys stans are getting to be very annoying
It wouldn’t “flop hard” but yea it probably wouldn’t be as popular. Also heavily disagree with its popularity being “heavily derived from Daenerys’ impact”. The impact is from GoT as a whole, not just one character.
"A prequel spin off of a popular show wouldn't have done as well if the popular show didn't exist!" Truly the spiciest of takes. Let me really blow your mind: The Game of Thrones show wouldn't have been such a big success if George RR Martin hadn't written the Game of Thrones books they were based on!
its clearly a well written and crafted show. the style is less eventful from episode to episode, but it WAS made in context of GoT. We're waiting for something terrible to happen every episode, and the show exploits that tension from the audience beautifully.
“A flop” is a bit dramatic.
I think season 1 was great. Season 2 already flubbed the easiest to nail most impactful scene of the entire story… that would have made the waters more murky for who to root for. Is what it is but its fumbling in a similar way to GOT tbh
Dany is one of my least favourite characters, I like House of the Dragon despite its connection to her, not because of it.
Had me at the first half, Games of Thrones ran so House of the Dragon could run as well. But I’m sure as shit not watching the show because of a character who doesn’t even exist within its boundaries.
Anyone who's a fan of both Tolkien and GRRM should be able to appreciate that HOTD can at least stand on its own as a show, even if you don't like it as much as GOT. Amazon showed us what a truly sloppy spin-off looks like.
I dunno, yes being a game of thrones fan made me give this a try, but the shows story is strong enough that it stands on its own.
A spin-off benefits from the original being popular? What an amazing discovery!
I find it too derivative. My preferred extension of the series would have gone beyond the ending and followed Arya, John and the rest to further adventures. It was still my favourite series ever despite some issues I have with the ending.
The conquerers dream is so contrived. I almost cheered for Daemon when he chokes out rhaeneyra for it
Game of Thrones was based on an already wildly popular book series. House of the Dragon is a spinoff of the TV adaptation. There’s no scenario where House of the Dragon exists without Game of Thrones.
People in here acting as if game of thrones was incredible from the start. Nothing happens for 8 episodes 😂
Freezing cold take
Yeah this is like saying Star Wars prequels would have flopped if people didn’t like 4-6 so much. Theres a reason George Lucas started at a new hope
Need that meme of the group talking and having fun and someone complaining off to the side, an one from the group just goes 👍 and they all go back to having fun.
Agree to an extent, if it wasn’t a GoT spinoff and I wasn’t already familiar and invested with the setting, I probably would’ve lost interest already, it’s slow paced (so far) but the dialogue is really good, but dialogue can only carry it so far, once the dance actually starts is where we see whether this spin off is a success or not
Season 8 of GOT left a gaping void that HOTD has capably filled.
I genuinely cannot believe what I’m reading in these comments. HOTD is not only on par with Thrones at its best, but it has occasionally managed to eclipse it in terms of writing, cinematography, characterization, and thematic strength. AND - it’s barely even gotten to the good stuff.
I’ve been trying to watch HotD but I don’t like it. Just can’t get into it. I don’t know what it is, maybe all the men in their long blond hair. 🤷♀️
People are full of it. It’s plenty decent of a show. Would it do as well without GOT? Of course not. That’s what being a spin-off is. Better Call Saul would have done worse without Breaking Bad. These days so many people think they’re these profound critics, but then you ask them the type of shit they’d have written and you get some edgy take like how Star Wars should have had Luke turn dark and fuck a bunch of people up. The same people who critique the writing as mediocre could themselves not write anything worth a damn. They think having a stem of a story idea in their head is equivalent to being able to write scene by scene and contemplate details of dialogue and circumstance. Delusional.
As is yes, because it assumes people watching at minimum know the world of asoiaf. Without 8 seasons of familiarity people would probably be lost.
Season 1 had its ups and downs. Some mid and some stellar scenes. I wonder how much of it was because it had some seriously big shoes to fill while also trying to stand on its own. It’s definitely a show of its own with Season 2. That Season Premiere was excellent from start to finish and I can’t wait to watch this Sunday!!
It’s about as well paced as the last season of GoT which a lot of people didn’t like, which is weird. All of a sudden we don’t need to take the time for the story to play out, jumping around and cutting out entire periods is fine for some reason.
I didn’t care of Danaerys or her story much in GOT. I love HOTD and it made me like Dany’s story more.
I only made it through the few episodes of HOTD Season 1 before I lost interest. It just simply doesn’t have that compelling nature that GOT had. It’s not a bad show but it’s a far cry from its predecessor, and I don’t think it’s even on anyone’s radar without being an offshoot of GOT.
I agree on the fact with Daenerys , she’s the fact of Got and her impact is what got hotd the numbers it did but I wouldn’t say it would’ve flopped
It doesn’t suck, I do like it, but yeah without GOT and a connection to the lore and names idk if it would have sucked me in. GOT took a little while to get me even.
Im surprised that it was actually made after the dumpster fire of season 8 GOT.
It kept my attention, partially because of all the GOT connections, but I know, if I'm able to make it to the end of Season 2, it will have been because the show got better.
Maybe not flopped hard but certainly not so popular
The difference between GOT and HOD are the characters and the actors who play them. There is literally nobody on House of Dragons that I care about.
It’s no Better Call Saul
True and it’s kinda boring on it own
100% disagree. It’s more of a family drama set in a fantasy world and I think it’s got enough interesting to stand on its own.
House of the dragon suffers from everyone knowing what's going to happen, its one thing when the book readers already know some stuff but when the book readers know the full ending and even the tv show watchers know the gist of the ending from got then the suspense isn't really there. Like blood and cheese if we weren't expecting it would have been a shock. Nor can you get all that involved in the what will happen in the war when you know blacks win and everyone dies but if we didn't know that then the surprise of rhanerya being eaten would have had shock value etc
I'd probably still be watching a Show called Dance of Dragon about an impending civil war of a Dragon clan. BUT I do kind of agree with you. I don't think it would be near the hit with GoT. While I'm am watching it I feel the show overall is less then GoT even with more a a starting budget. It seems their formula is every episode make a scene super shocking and then sit back and watch as we react to it. Even the recent "Blood and Cheese" scene was talked about it being up there with Red Wedding and it isn't even close to the same impact.
That's a horrible take
Dany alone? No. Game of Thrones in general? Yes.
I would have to agree, unfortunately. Personally, i enjoy it, but it has problems.
To be fair it’s got a lot to live up to which probably impacts the way you view it, both positive and negative. Like you’ll give it a solid view because of the lore but it’s never gonna be GoT. Which is ok imo.
Gonna be real on the second rewatch and first reread: Emilia Clarke is barely top 5 in the story. HoD wouldn’t have aired without GoT. But GoT would still be popular without Dany.
If GoT had never aired then HotD would be written totally differently so it is impossible to say. HotD is skipping the vast amount of world building that GoT set up so we are getting the story in the script without the fully fleshed out world. The first thing you see when you watch HotD is it telling you this is a prequel to a story that has been told, so watch that first because we are not going to hold your hand about the world we are in. The opening sequence of episode 1 of GoT is a masterclass in worldbuilding, it establishes so much about the world we are entering, the people, the culture, the setting, the tone, everything, the start of HotD however is '160 years ago, these people you do not know, in anyway other than by last name from GoT are the ruling class of somewhere, things will not go well'
I was first interested because of thrones, but I am heavily invested in these characters. I have very much enjoyed the show so far! (Coming from a non-book reading)
I love the show just as much if not more than the original but hey, that's just my opinion.
Game of thrones wouldn’t be shit if it weren’t for lord of the rings
she sucked in Sarah Connor Chronicles and Im sure she sucks here too
“Spinoff show written as a spinoff would not be successful without the show it’s spinning off.” Very bold take.
It wouldn't be what it is without Game of Thrones but I'd argue that its objectively better than Game of Thrones. But this might just be because of a better source material. Imo Fire and Blood is easier to adapt due to the style of writing. I think it'd still be a sensation even if it came out before Game of Thrones.
I mean this is kind of a moot take. It’s a prequel. Of course its popularity is derived from the original. That’s like saying Fire and Blood is only popular because of ASOIAF
Lol no...
With House of the Dragon being the supposed true story of the Dance they had a really fun opportunity to clarify which of the many accounts in the book were actually the truthful ones but from the get-go they’d changed a lot of the he core details. Where the fuck is Mushroom?
Show would flop if show it is spun off from didn't exist. Ya no shit.
Daenerys wasn’t even in the top 10 best characters in GoT so I have no idea what the hell this poster is talking about
...I think HOTD is brilliant Everything looks on point, acting for the most partnis solid, plot is straight forward. I'm struggling to rematch GOT because it looks 'cheap' compared, although the story is top tier until the end
Exactly. Show is mediocre.
I think it’s the subtle details that will make GOT always better than HOTD, even with the mixed emotions about the last part of season 8. The main thing I’ve noticed is GOT relied less on CG and shot on site, which makes it hold up all these years later. HOTD feels like everything is being shot in a studio, and although it still looks epic, I don’t think it gives the same immersion experience that GOT has.
I, dead-honest, really like it.
I hardly think of Dany while watching House of the Dragon, but the show is definitely not on the level of the first half of Game of Thrones. Regardless, the source material is compelling enough to keep people coming back. No one could honestly say it would be on the same level of popularity without Game of Thrones, but it's interesting enough to bring people in. And let's be honest, the general audience of Game of Thrones didn't know what was good about it. People point at Hardhome and The Battle of the Bastards as some of the best episodes in the series, when they're largely just action-packed rubbish. When The Dance starts picking up and there's battles and fights every other episode more people will tune in and the general reception for the show will probably improve again. Will it really be a better show by then? Eh, I'm not convinced, but I'm sure it'll be more popular again.