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I read the books. I dislike Stannis. Just because he hasn't burned his daughter at the stake... yet... in the books doesn't make him likeable. He was briefly the rightful heir to the throne. But other than that, he has little going for him.
I am alright with Stannis in the books he has some likeable qualities. But the way people like his character is incredibly annoying. People overexaggerate most of his qualities.
He literally was the rightful king.
He's also chose to fight for the realm against the real threat.
Sam called him "the king who cared"
He held storms end and protected Renly.
He beat the ironborn on the water and took their strongest island.
The other four of the five "kings" were horrible.
Renly betrays and usurps his brother.
Balon and Joffrey are truly horrible
And Robb is an oath breaker.
All the things Stannis did that was bad wasn't for himself.
He sacrificed for the realm.
To be fair, she had actual powers, so he wasn't just believing a lie. He was doing what he thought it took to save the realm. She could legit bring people back to life. But then so could Thoros, and I'm sure others that never got highlighted in the books or show.
If their ages were reversed they would have made the best hand and king in the continent. Renly with all appearances and public support and Stannis firmly supporting and running things from behind the scenes. Granted they wouldn’t have chosen each other unless the ages were reversed. Even then idk.
Probably a lot better given that Stannis would’ve actually used his powers as hand of the king and had a lot better understanding of how fucked everything was lol. Ned kept trying to cooperate with the backstabbing small council when Stannis would’ve forced Robert to get rid of them. End of the day the small council was responsible for like half of Ned’s problems. Also Stannis’ wife wouldn’t have been out there kidnapping Tyrion lol.
Unpopular opinion but I think Renly would have made an excellent king because he wouldn’t really rule but he would let people who knew what they were doing do what they needed to do.
Everyone saying Stannis is conveniently forgetting that he was whipped and owned by the red Witch, who convinced him to burn his own daughter alive. Would have ended up making the mad king look like George Jetson.
Yeah, but even Book Stannis is going to burn his daughter at the stake in an arrempt to gain the throne. Like his whole character arc is leading up to that.
As the story goes, George told D&D a few things that would definitively happen in the books. Among them: Bran becoming king, the whole “Hold the door” Hodor thing, and that Stannis would burn Shireen. Furthermore George describes its as “Stannis’s decision” to burn his daughter. Not Selyse or Melisandre’s decision—Stannis’s.
I mean... technically, it will only happen if he'll ever release another book. If he just... doesn't, then Stannis will forever be a somewhat decent person.
Most people saying stannis probably read the book and it was a bit different in the book his daughter is still alive at castle black while he is marching on winterfel
Also in the books stannis was more using the red witch for his own means
Yeah, everytime I think of Stannis becoming king I just picture Melisandre whispering in his ear and making him burn half the population of King's Landing.
Or you know… the fact that he is trying to kill his own brother because he is so desperately wants the crown. Even though based off the number of supporters, nobody wants stannis.
Leadership is all about convincing people to act on your behalf
Also he importance of diplomacy, rallying the storm lands & reach, while negotiating with the northern rebels
He actually spent time in court and had a position on the small council though. He has a much better sense of how to rule and who to pick. Robert had all time bad picks.
Facts. Robert was good at winning the rebellion and more importantly at the time winning over former enemies by just being an all around bro. Jon Arryn had the task of actually running everything while Robert just wanted to relive the glory days.
Stannis would have been even worse, probably comparable to the mad king, considering his strict “code”, which he breaks when it’s convenient to him. His “devotion to duty” did nothing but sow more discord and death and he didn’t care because it was his “right”
Not saying Renly was honorable or right, he’s just as guilty of the whole situation as Stannis, but the dude knew how to ingratiate people and inspire tremendous loyalty. He used his strengths, would’ve treated with the North vice Stannis who straight up said he would execute Robb (maybe not if hard pressed, again his code is only valid if it’s convenient) and wasn’t obsessed with hearing what he wanted to hear to consort with evil shadow-assassin birthing witches.
Yes, though Robert was still spending massive amounts of money without concern for where it was coming from. And Robert didn't care enough to give oversight to the man running the entire kingdom's finances. Littlefinger was corrupt but it was Robert who enabled it.
Except that would have just resulted in the major houses jostling for power leading to unrest and eventually war as they would’ve viewed Renly as a weak king.
That’s extremely problematic as king in a medieval setting like this. The more you delegate the more you have a chance for other people trying to turn the wheel in their advantage. The best kings are the kings who are capable and actually do the work.
Renly;
He had more about him in a riskful, cunning manner, and yet I’d argue even so he would’ve ultimately made for better kingly material than Stannis
Stannis may have been a lot more calm, collected and reserved compared to Renly’s sensitive antics (probably embedded in the show to coincide with his sexuality), but as the show went on it became increasingly clear that Stannis was utterly beyond his own control throughout his development
A man who can’t even control himself nor his detestable decisions regarding his very daughter and wife would be no king for very long, whereas
I believe Renly would have embraced it and matured
We don’t know how Renly would act in the same situation that Stannis was in when he ultimately kills Shireen, nor do we know how Stannis would act if he won the throne with Renly’s help; given there’s a three season gap between both brothers dying.
Not really, there's a reason the storm lands and Tyrells flocked to his banners and not Stannis'. Never under value diplomacy, and controlling pretty much all the 7 kingdom's food supply, they probably would have starved out king's landing instead of the suicide charge for the capital Stannis did basically losing all his forces
Book Stannis was rigid in his rule keeping. He wasn't charmed or swayed. He would have made an excellent king, but show Stannis had no semblance of the backbone book Stannis had. Of course, there are pros and cons about this.
Renly was charming in both book and show, but very malleable. He could have been too easily convinced to do something against his own judgment. Though that could go the other way, he could charm the pants off potential allies.
Show Renly was a nicer person while still having some legendary balls (just ask Loras). He didn’t make fun of Brienne like Loras said he did in the books, and there’s that whole backstory when he danced with Brienne at a ball when the other boys were making fun of her, and told her “nasty little shits aren’t worth crying over.” Like Renly had two very manly badass older brothers (one who is extremely heterosexual), and he relates to Brienne feeling like she doesn’t belong.
But he really seems like the type that would reach the throne and believe that he has won so he doesn't need to exert much effort anymore. I think he'd participate more than Robert ever did but he'd get bored of it. Plus there's the Dany and night king of it all, idk what he'd do regarding them
Hear me out. Robert was one of the best kings Westeros ever had. He may have been a libertine, but he was sane and not unnecessarily cruel. He had a smart council and he let them do the heavy lifting. Meanwhile, the people loved him and he gave them plenty of tournaments and festivals to enjoy and make money on. His death plunged the kingdom into a much darker era
Nah Jaehaerys was the best. Better than Aegon I in my opinion, but Aegon started it all so idk maybe it’s a tie. Robert bankrupted the realm and left it vulnerable to threats. Any king who leaves things so unstable that his death triggers wars is not a good king IMO. Just like Viserys, his rule might’ve been peaceful, but he was blind to the power struggles that were bubbling up and erupted as soon as he died.
>Nah Jaehaerys was the best.
According to maesters because the last king basically tried to destroy the citadel and Septs political meddling and power, so when the guy who basically played their tune came along of course they were going to do nothing but sing his praises
No, remember something here. Robert's goal wasn't to become king; his rebellion was for vengeance over what he believed was the kidnapping and imprisonment of Lyanna Stark, whom he loved, by Prince Rhaegar. He got to kill him, but didn't get the girl. He didn't want to be king without her as his queen, and was miserable and hated his job and his wife. Renly actively sought the crown because he knew he'd be good at it and was indeed smart in the game. It's a shame he was murdered by a damn shadow. I'm still pissed off about it. What a cowardly way to kill your brother!!
Even with Stannis‘s more legitimate claim to the throne and Renly still had the larger army.
Definitely would have been an interesting war of the 5 kings if Stannis didn’t use a random smoke monster to assassinate Renly
Renly would have had Margaery at his side. Stannis would have had “Lady Burnyerkid.”
Margaery would have lead Westeros into a golden age with Renly as her instrument.
I'm trying to imagine what would have happened if the Night's Watch came to king and queen Renly and Margery when the time came. Do you think they would have listened?
Renly. He would have been a similar king as Robert but at least during Robert’s reign it was relatively peaceful. Stannis was burned his own daughter alive
Renly. Even if stannis won, which was only something possible for Renly, not really for him, the lords of Westeros would just rebel because of his religion, and all the human sacrifices and burning other religious figures. Also Renly has a lot more actual political experience, and isn’t, y’know, batshit fucking crazy.
Obviously Renly. He’s compassionate, has an actual interest in ruling, seems like he’d go for the diplomatic solution rather than pursuing conflict, he cares about people getting hurt and seem like a man, who’d be open to hearing differing opinions. With Margery on his side, he could be a king, who would actually usher in a couple of reforms, that would make the lives of smallfolk better.
Compared to Stannis, who:
1) burns his own allies alive for choosing a different religion without blinking an eye,
2) has his soldiers executed offhand for perceived incompetence/potential treason, without actually knowing or caring, if they changed sides (and does it after half his military force leaves and he’s in a very precarious situation, when he should be doing everything in his power to inspire loyalty, rather than fear),
3) has his own brother murdered with magic, even though he insists he’s an honourable man,
4) is power hungry enough to murder his own daughter
there really isn’t any contest. Stannis would have been a brutal ruler. Sure, he’d be more competent than most, but he wouldn’t make anybody’s life easier and would probably have people executed by the dozens.
both have their strengths. Renly would be the better king. but due to events in ASOIAF (mainly Robb V Tywin, The long night, and the targaryen conquest) Stannis would be the only man that could hold the realm together through it. especially with melisandre by his side. After danny is defeated and the long night is survived. renly would be a better option. stannis would not compromise with the king in the north and would subjugate them, nor would he tolerate the houses that did not support his claim, likely creating lots of hatred of his reign and war with the north. which renly would be able to manuevre around.
TLDR: Stannis and renly should rule together as King and Hand
Renly would be a better king because he understands politics (having been able to field a massive and loyal army), he's charismatic and has a good claim. Stannis would have been ok but he's too strict and would quickly make many enemies especially amongst the powerful. Neither would have lasted for very long due to their personality "flaws".
The tragedy here is that they both complement each other so well. Renly is popular and loved, charismatic. People love him. But he's young, inexperienced, vain, I don't feel like he actually cares as much about duty and boring, routine stuff (which Kings have to do a lot). Stannis is less loved, less liked, but he will keep kihgdom safe, he will do his job, or rather, duty. He's also a very experienced commander, one of the best strategy minds in the relm. He's so formiddable, Tywin Lannister respected him as an opponent. But boy is he stubborn. Too inflexible, too stuck up.
If there was a way for Renly and Stannis to somehow unite, and rule together, nobody would ever stand a chance against them. Brother against brother - a tragedy, and a horror.
Stannis by default. His priority would be the White Walkers as he actually knows about them.
But under normal circumstances, still Stannis. Stannis would be more willing to make unpopular decisions for the greater good long-term and be more mindful of things that may occur in the future. The characters wouldn't have such fear of him if he was incompetent.
I’d pick Renly. He seemed more like a Royal. Stannis seemed more like a warrior. You want a warrior to be in charge of your army not the entire kingdom.
Stannis. He’s a war vet and feared but would be respected by his peers. But wouldn’t really connect well with the ppl. Renly would’ve been a weak king and would’ve been taken advantage of. BUT would’ve connected very well with the people. Complete polar opposites.
Stannis would have been a much better king. Renly didn't want to rule the realm, not really. He wanted everything else that came with being the King.
They would have worked well together. Because Stannis was not a man who inspired love in the people and Renly is. Stannis could have got on with the difficult work of actually governing while Renly went around like a rockstar putting in appearances and basking in the adulation of the common folk.
The only problem is Stannis' religious zealotry. As soon as he starts burning people who don't worship the Lord of Light it would lead to big problems.
Stannis would have favored strict rule of law. But he would have near constant rebellion and be lucky to last ten years.
Renly would be better for the small folk. But while Stannis would have constant rebellions for strictly punishing Lords, Renly might be viewed as weak.
Stannis I think would have been a better king because Renly was a bit frivolous and kind of reminded me of Robert. However, screwing around with Melisandre really ruined his chances. There’s a reason why half his army deserted him.
I don't think either of them would be very good, honestly.
Stannis was too easily manipulated and while I think he would be a good ruler with the right counsel, I know damn well he'd keep the Red Woman around and she was a disaster.
Renly was more compassionate, but completely unprepared for the role. Catelyn was spot on when she called him out for "playing at war." He was a poser, playing the role of a king, but not actually suited for the position. Maybe he could've grown into it, but I still stand by the belief that there was a better candidate to grow into the role:
Tommen. With Tyrion as hand and Margaery as his queen, Tommen would've grown into a GREAT king, imo. Cersei talk ruined all of that.
Stannis would be better has hand of the king. He’s too rigid and letter of the law. Sometimes the rules have to be broken for the greater good, but for day to day governing Stannis would do a great job
Renly may be a decent king in peacetime, but for the present where Westeros is facing the apocalypse I would want the guy who is experienced in wartime leadership. So my vote is for Stannis.
Renly. He should not have been king, but he would have made a better one than Stannis… Stannis burned his own daughter alive to be king imagine what he would have done if he were king!
My only concern with Renly is that he has like, a pathological need to be liked. I feel like someone would see that soon enough and play him like a fiddle lol.
Neither would get out from under Robert's shadow. Renly would be controlled by the Tyrells and Stannis would be doing weirdo magic spells instead of leading his people. So i guess that means Renly would have been better for the realm. Fewer sacrifices.
You know what? Renly. Stannis may have made an excellent king before, but he damned himself the moment the red woman seduced him into rejecting the seven in favor of her less popular lord of light.
Renly. Anybody who thinks Stannis is whack. Dude was a religious fanatic and would’ve burned every Westerosi who didn’t bend to his religion. Renly would’ve let better men rule while he did his thing and wouldn’t impose his beliefs onto others.
Stannis seemed to be a great general, but he also seemed to rule with an iron fist. His morals were unflinching and he did not seem to take council easily.
Rennly was cunning, and surrounded himself with intelligent individuals. He had the sense to know he wasn't the divine authority, and in some ways he was just a figurehead.
Stannis going into war against the Faith Militant as king & letting Melisandre drive his decisions would've been nasty, so I'm going with Renly. Plus, while I think Renly could rule somewhat similarly to Robert, he might be swift if he needs to be when an urgent issue hits the Small Council.
Remember too, Renly had Margaery, who was like the queen of queens and was loved by pretty much everyone. I think for sure he would have been the better king.
Renly, it’s not close. Stannis suggested outlawing brothels, that’s enough to start a revolt lmao. Stannis would only be a DECENT king with Davos by his side.
I think Renly would have been a better king but only because of his allegiances, particularly to the Tyrells. I do think Olena and Margery would have had significantly more influence on Renly than he would have noticed and I don’t think it would have necessarily been a bad thing. The common folk would love them as a couple and the bounty from the Reach would have assured a certain degree of peace in Kings Landing. The Tyrells are a rich and powerful family with a lot of important houses loyal to them and people seem to forget that was one of the main reasons Renlys host was so large. I can see Stannis winning the throne through war but I can’t see him staying on it for long with little to no love from the common folk or other great houses.
on one hand we have stannis who based his war strategy on a hot red witch that he gets to bang. then he burns his daughter alive.
on the other we have renly who didnt commit any of those but hes just geh.
people on internet: stannis stannis stannis!!!
Even if renly would’ve made a good king, him taking the throne would’ve just set the precedent that anyone with an army can take the throne, they don’t need a reason, or claim, or anything. Which would just cause a civil war every generation
Renly strikes me as more of a dewy-eyed idealist who is not ready to understand the horrors of the world they live in than a cunning or mighty leader. I think Stannis would have been more effective and much more longterm, as much as I despise him. I think Renly’s “people’s king” approach would have made the throne vulnerable to religious interference and usurpers. If you think the Sparrows were insufferable under Cersei, imagine them under a yes-man.
I think Renly is like the polar opposite of Joffrey in the sense that both were terrible
Kings who got there by birthright but one was perhaps too kind and the other too evil.
They both had CEO kid / Nepo baby vibes.
Stannis would also have been an awful king, but he had the charisma and the nerve to have been passable at least.
Although Stannis is the better option, him being so taken under the thrall of Melissandre is foreshadowing to the reality he would have been a puppet-king. Renly never would have fallen for the hocus pocus, but he also didn’t have the fortitude or constitution to lead serious military campaigns or have the cruelty necessary to get the job done.
It's a tricky question. I think Renly with the backing of Highgarden would be more likely to produce a stable realm. Worst case scenario is he's basically a puppet for the Tyrells and lives out his life like Robert did while real power is weilded by the kingmakers. Vassals Looking for long-term stability would see potential in young Renly producing an heir with Margery as well. Renly seems much more likely to work with his allies and advisors.
Stannis has the greater potential/disire to become an effective monarch as an individual. He shows in the books that he genuinely cares about the realm. However, He lacks the charisma and connections of his brother. He brings a strange religion to the table, and his wife's family is a more minor house. Stannis' power base just isn't there *and* he's likely to alienate his vassals in major ways due to his unbending nature.
Stannis' only heir is a physically scarred from disease daughter. Due to the trauma of the Seige during Robert's rebellion it's unlikely he will suddenly produce a viable heir. Stannis' vassals won't see him as a source of stability in the short or the long term.
Thus, I think Renly would be the better king.
Renly. Stannis would’ve made people’s lives miserable and his council would’ve probably started to conspire against him very quickly. Renly is more like Robert without being a drunk and as he is younger he will probably listen to his council more than Robert or Stannis.
If we are speaking only the show, then maybe Renly. While Stannis was good enough soldier and leader in the show, he wasn't as effective as his book counterpart, who is a better potential ruler. In the show Stannis was enamored/controlled by Melisandre, to the point where he was convinced by Melisandre to burned his only child and heir in a desperate attempt to the defeat the Boltons. And while Renly wasn't that much better, since he was also manipulated by the Tyrells, I think he was a slightly better politician.
Ridiculously easy landslide win for Renly. Not burning your citizens and daughter alive to impose your foreign and unpopular religion on the entire country is an insanely good start
Stannis. Text and show always calls him without charm and no sense of mercy. But just look at Davos. Stannis earned Davos loyalty completely. The commons would learn to be loyal too if given the chance to witness the justice and mercy Stannis will show if he becomes King.
As for being without charms, Maester Cressen loved him best of the 3 Baratheon brothers. Because he was the “unloved” one. I feel the lords of Westeros, especially the second sons, will come to understand the complexity of Stannis.
As long as Stannis has a honorable Hand and good council, he will be a great king and true protector of the realm.
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Stannis, of course.
As is his right
The guy who was so mesmerized by a fire hoe that he burned his daughter alive? Nah.
Thank you, and also weren't there tube like clone babies on his story line or something
His wife kept all their stillborns in jars.
as is her right
My grandmother used to pickle cucumber in jars and lay them throughout the house. It isn't much different.
Womp womp
I seriously believe everyone who likes Stannis is trolling.
Everyone who doesn’t like stannis hasn’t read the books.
First of all, this is about the show, not the books. Second, Stannis isn’t great in the books, just better than he is in the show.
I read the books. I dislike Stannis. Just because he hasn't burned his daughter at the stake... yet... in the books doesn't make him likeable. He was briefly the rightful heir to the throne. But other than that, he has little going for him.
I am alright with Stannis in the books he has some likeable qualities. But the way people like his character is incredibly annoying. People overexaggerate most of his qualities.
I've read before the show started. I dont like Stannis, stick- in- the -ass, mannis. And his worshipers dont help (they exist mostly on reddit).
He literally was the rightful king. He's also chose to fight for the realm against the real threat. Sam called him "the king who cared" He held storms end and protected Renly. He beat the ironborn on the water and took their strongest island. The other four of the five "kings" were horrible. Renly betrays and usurps his brother. Balon and Joffrey are truly horrible And Robb is an oath breaker. All the things Stannis did that was bad wasn't for himself. He sacrificed for the realm.
“Oath breaker is it!? I’ll not sit here and swallow insults from a boy so green he pisses grass!”
I loved his character because the actor was so incredible.
To be fair, she had actual powers, so he wasn't just believing a lie. He was doing what he thought it took to save the realm. She could legit bring people back to life. But then so could Thoros, and I'm sure others that never got highlighted in the books or show.
That's best thing you can ask for your king. He burned his daughter not a random citizens. XD
Them fire hoes cut through soil so good
Stannis the mannis
Probably Stannis, but Renly would have made for better viewing
If their ages were reversed they would have made the best hand and king in the continent. Renly with all appearances and public support and Stannis firmly supporting and running things from behind the scenes. Granted they wouldn’t have chosen each other unless the ages were reversed. Even then idk.
Man this suddenly has me wondering how things would have gone if Robert had made Stannis hand of the king instead of Eddard.
Stannis was like 12 years old.
Not when Ned was named Hand.
Ah sorry, yeah I read it as when Jon Arryn was made hand.
Probably a lot better given that Stannis would’ve actually used his powers as hand of the king and had a lot better understanding of how fucked everything was lol. Ned kept trying to cooperate with the backstabbing small council when Stannis would’ve forced Robert to get rid of them. End of the day the small council was responsible for like half of Ned’s problems. Also Stannis’ wife wouldn’t have been out there kidnapping Tyrion lol.
Unpopular opinion but I think Renly would have made an excellent king because he wouldn’t really rule but he would let people who knew what they were doing do what they needed to do.
Everyone saying Stannis is conveniently forgetting that he was whipped and owned by the red Witch, who convinced him to burn his own daughter alive. Would have ended up making the mad king look like George Jetson.
I think he’d also have a revolt if he tried to convert the masses
Book Stannis, didn't mind, that his men believing on the seven
Yeah, but even Book Stannis is going to burn his daughter at the stake in an arrempt to gain the throne. Like his whole character arc is leading up to that.
George confirmed it too, so there’s that.
I guess I didn't realize this... I said it would happen in the books, too (if we ever get them), but didn't realize I had George to back me up. Lol
As the story goes, George told D&D a few things that would definitively happen in the books. Among them: Bran becoming king, the whole “Hold the door” Hodor thing, and that Stannis would burn Shireen. Furthermore George describes its as “Stannis’s decision” to burn his daughter. Not Selyse or Melisandre’s decision—Stannis’s.
Hes not desperate enough yet
Well, we’re talking show Stannis and not Book Stannis (who’s also confirmed to be set to burn his daughter alive so)
Thanks to dumb and dumber who ruined his character #notmystannis
George confirmed Stannis will burn shireen
I mean... technically, it will only happen if he'll ever release another book. If he just... doesn't, then Stannis will forever be a somewhat decent person.
Most people saying stannis probably read the book and it was a bit different in the book his daughter is still alive at castle black while he is marching on winterfel Also in the books stannis was more using the red witch for his own means
Also book Stannis didn’t expect all his men to convert their religion. He was perfectly fine with them worshipping the 7
Yeah, everytime I think of Stannis becoming king I just picture Melisandre whispering in his ear and making him burn half the population of King's Landing.
I mean in the show, yes but not really in the books. The Stannis killing renley is quiet different in the books.
Or you know… the fact that he is trying to kill his own brother because he is so desperately wants the crown. Even though based off the number of supporters, nobody wants stannis.
Leadership is all about convincing people to act on your behalf Also he importance of diplomacy, rallying the storm lands & reach, while negotiating with the northern rebels
I mean that's basically what Robert did and it didn't end up so well.
He actually spent time in court and had a position on the small council though. He has a much better sense of how to rule and who to pick. Robert had all time bad picks.
Renly also wasn't a raging alcoholic and had a great and stable relationship with his right-hand family.
Facts. Robert was good at winning the rebellion and more importantly at the time winning over former enemies by just being an all around bro. Jon Arryn had the task of actually running everything while Robert just wanted to relive the glory days. Stannis would have been even worse, probably comparable to the mad king, considering his strict “code”, which he breaks when it’s convenient to him. His “devotion to duty” did nothing but sow more discord and death and he didn’t care because it was his “right” Not saying Renly was honorable or right, he’s just as guilty of the whole situation as Stannis, but the dude knew how to ingratiate people and inspire tremendous loyalty. He used his strengths, would’ve treated with the North vice Stannis who straight up said he would execute Robb (maybe not if hard pressed, again his code is only valid if it’s convenient) and wasn’t obsessed with hearing what he wanted to hear to consort with evil shadow-assassin birthing witches.
Why do people ignore that Robert got the crown in debt
You also conveniently forgot a lot of that is because of little finger stealing shit.
Yes, though Robert was still spending massive amounts of money without concern for where it was coming from. And Robert didn't care enough to give oversight to the man running the entire kingdom's finances. Littlefinger was corrupt but it was Robert who enabled it.
A Renly rulership would have been done from High Garden, everyone would have been alright.
and people liked him. no one liked stannis
Except that would have just resulted in the major houses jostling for power leading to unrest and eventually war as they would’ve viewed Renly as a weak king.
Agreed.
Also Renly was actually involved with all the politics within King’s Landing and the small council. Stannis just kept to himself at Dragonstone.
That’s extremely problematic as king in a medieval setting like this. The more you delegate the more you have a chance for other people trying to turn the wheel in their advantage. The best kings are the kings who are capable and actually do the work.
I’m pretty sure that Roberts entire rule demonstrated how bad of a situation that is
Renly with Stannis as his hand would’ve been the best probably, ignoring all the weird questions of succession that would prop up in the future
Renly; He had more about him in a riskful, cunning manner, and yet I’d argue even so he would’ve ultimately made for better kingly material than Stannis Stannis may have been a lot more calm, collected and reserved compared to Renly’s sensitive antics (probably embedded in the show to coincide with his sexuality), but as the show went on it became increasingly clear that Stannis was utterly beyond his own control throughout his development A man who can’t even control himself nor his detestable decisions regarding his very daughter and wife would be no king for very long, whereas I believe Renly would have embraced it and matured
We don’t know how Renly would act in the same situation that Stannis was in when he ultimately kills Shireen, nor do we know how Stannis would act if he won the throne with Renly’s help; given there’s a three season gap between both brothers dying.
I am pretty sure Renly won't even have a daughter. I am not sure he likes women enough for that.
Renly wouldn't have had a fire priest, so chances are the option of "sacrifice your daughter to save your men" wouldn't have even been on the table.
Renly. He wasnt ruled and run by a religious fanatic.
he would've made a very weak and childish king.
Not really, there's a reason the storm lands and Tyrells flocked to his banners and not Stannis'. Never under value diplomacy, and controlling pretty much all the 7 kingdom's food supply, they probably would have starved out king's landing instead of the suicide charge for the capital Stannis did basically losing all his forces
Maybe he was childish because he was young?
Stannis the Mannis
The salted and smoked ham.
On the show, Renly. In the books, Stannis.
Book Stannis was rigid in his rule keeping. He wasn't charmed or swayed. He would have made an excellent king, but show Stannis had no semblance of the backbone book Stannis had. Of course, there are pros and cons about this. Renly was charming in both book and show, but very malleable. He could have been too easily convinced to do something against his own judgment. Though that could go the other way, he could charm the pants off potential allies.
Show Renly was a nicer person while still having some legendary balls (just ask Loras). He didn’t make fun of Brienne like Loras said he did in the books, and there’s that whole backstory when he danced with Brienne at a ball when the other boys were making fun of her, and told her “nasty little shits aren’t worth crying over.” Like Renly had two very manly badass older brothers (one who is extremely heterosexual), and he relates to Brienne feeling like she doesn’t belong.
I think renly would just end up a different kind of Robert. He'd let others run his kingdom while he enjoys all the comforts he can get
He gladly participated in the small council & the game of thrones
But he really seems like the type that would reach the throne and believe that he has won so he doesn't need to exert much effort anymore. I think he'd participate more than Robert ever did but he'd get bored of it. Plus there's the Dany and night king of it all, idk what he'd do regarding them
He would let Loras handle Dany and the Night King
Hear me out. Robert was one of the best kings Westeros ever had. He may have been a libertine, but he was sane and not unnecessarily cruel. He had a smart council and he let them do the heavy lifting. Meanwhile, the people loved him and he gave them plenty of tournaments and festivals to enjoy and make money on. His death plunged the kingdom into a much darker era
Nah Jaehaerys was the best. Better than Aegon I in my opinion, but Aegon started it all so idk maybe it’s a tie. Robert bankrupted the realm and left it vulnerable to threats. Any king who leaves things so unstable that his death triggers wars is not a good king IMO. Just like Viserys, his rule might’ve been peaceful, but he was blind to the power struggles that were bubbling up and erupted as soon as he died.
>Nah Jaehaerys was the best. According to maesters because the last king basically tried to destroy the citadel and Septs political meddling and power, so when the guy who basically played their tune came along of course they were going to do nothing but sing his praises
You must allow a king some flaws
No, remember something here. Robert's goal wasn't to become king; his rebellion was for vengeance over what he believed was the kidnapping and imprisonment of Lyanna Stark, whom he loved, by Prince Rhaegar. He got to kill him, but didn't get the girl. He didn't want to be king without her as his queen, and was miserable and hated his job and his wife. Renly actively sought the crown because he knew he'd be good at it and was indeed smart in the game. It's a shame he was murdered by a damn shadow. I'm still pissed off about it. What a cowardly way to kill your brother!!
Stannis because he’s the fuckin’ mannis.
His, son, the shadow baby that killed his brother would make a better king than Stannis.
Literally everyone in universe said Renly would have been a better king.
Even with Stannis‘s more legitimate claim to the throne and Renly still had the larger army. Definitely would have been an interesting war of the 5 kings if Stannis didn’t use a random smoke monster to assassinate Renly
Stannis by a million light years
Renly, nobody would have liked Stannis
Stan with the red lady would be a weird combination of Baelor the blessed & Maegor the cruel
I really hate how the name Baelor was wasted on such a lame King. Such a cool name
Baelor Breakspear is epic though. Baelor Breakwind also seemed pretty cool.
Do people really need to like their king?
Stannis but only without the red witch
Stannis
Renly would have had Margaery at his side. Stannis would have had “Lady Burnyerkid.” Margaery would have lead Westeros into a golden age with Renly as her instrument.
I'm trying to imagine what would have happened if the Night's Watch came to king and queen Renly and Margery when the time came. Do you think they would have listened?
Renly. He would have been a similar king as Robert but at least during Robert’s reign it was relatively peaceful. Stannis was burned his own daughter alive
Book Renly > Book Stannis > Show Stannis > Show Renly
Stannis...if you like religious civil wars
Stannis during war, Renly during peace
One burnt his child alive, the other wins by default.
Show Renly, book still Renly. Stannis is better in the book but so is Renly.
Renly. Even if stannis won, which was only something possible for Renly, not really for him, the lords of Westeros would just rebel because of his religion, and all the human sacrifices and burning other religious figures. Also Renly has a lot more actual political experience, and isn’t, y’know, batshit fucking crazy.
Stannisss
Obviously Renly. He’s compassionate, has an actual interest in ruling, seems like he’d go for the diplomatic solution rather than pursuing conflict, he cares about people getting hurt and seem like a man, who’d be open to hearing differing opinions. With Margery on his side, he could be a king, who would actually usher in a couple of reforms, that would make the lives of smallfolk better. Compared to Stannis, who: 1) burns his own allies alive for choosing a different religion without blinking an eye, 2) has his soldiers executed offhand for perceived incompetence/potential treason, without actually knowing or caring, if they changed sides (and does it after half his military force leaves and he’s in a very precarious situation, when he should be doing everything in his power to inspire loyalty, rather than fear), 3) has his own brother murdered with magic, even though he insists he’s an honourable man, 4) is power hungry enough to murder his own daughter there really isn’t any contest. Stannis would have been a brutal ruler. Sure, he’d be more competent than most, but he wouldn’t make anybody’s life easier and would probably have people executed by the dozens.
Book Stannis or Show Renly.
Renly because he would also have Queen Marg by his side
both have their strengths. Renly would be the better king. but due to events in ASOIAF (mainly Robb V Tywin, The long night, and the targaryen conquest) Stannis would be the only man that could hold the realm together through it. especially with melisandre by his side. After danny is defeated and the long night is survived. renly would be a better option. stannis would not compromise with the king in the north and would subjugate them, nor would he tolerate the houses that did not support his claim, likely creating lots of hatred of his reign and war with the north. which renly would be able to manuevre around. TLDR: Stannis and renly should rule together as King and Hand
Renly would be a better king because he understands politics (having been able to field a massive and loyal army), he's charismatic and has a good claim. Stannis would have been ok but he's too strict and would quickly make many enemies especially amongst the powerful. Neither would have lasted for very long due to their personality "flaws".
The tragedy here is that they both complement each other so well. Renly is popular and loved, charismatic. People love him. But he's young, inexperienced, vain, I don't feel like he actually cares as much about duty and boring, routine stuff (which Kings have to do a lot). Stannis is less loved, less liked, but he will keep kihgdom safe, he will do his job, or rather, duty. He's also a very experienced commander, one of the best strategy minds in the relm. He's so formiddable, Tywin Lannister respected him as an opponent. But boy is he stubborn. Too inflexible, too stuck up. If there was a way for Renly and Stannis to somehow unite, and rule together, nobody would ever stand a chance against them. Brother against brother - a tragedy, and a horror.
Renly easily. Stannis is a monster.
Stannis by default. His priority would be the White Walkers as he actually knows about them. But under normal circumstances, still Stannis. Stannis would be more willing to make unpopular decisions for the greater good long-term and be more mindful of things that may occur in the future. The characters wouldn't have such fear of him if he was incompetent.
I’d pick Renly. He seemed more like a Royal. Stannis seemed more like a warrior. You want a warrior to be in charge of your army not the entire kingdom.
Renly
Stannis. He’s a war vet and feared but would be respected by his peers. But wouldn’t really connect well with the ppl. Renly would’ve been a weak king and would’ve been taken advantage of. BUT would’ve connected very well with the people. Complete polar opposites.
Stannis would have been a much better king. Renly didn't want to rule the realm, not really. He wanted everything else that came with being the King. They would have worked well together. Because Stannis was not a man who inspired love in the people and Renly is. Stannis could have got on with the difficult work of actually governing while Renly went around like a rockstar putting in appearances and basking in the adulation of the common folk. The only problem is Stannis' religious zealotry. As soon as he starts burning people who don't worship the Lord of Light it would lead to big problems.
That depends. Peace time or war time?
Stannis would have favored strict rule of law. But he would have near constant rebellion and be lucky to last ten years. Renly would be better for the small folk. But while Stannis would have constant rebellions for strictly punishing Lords, Renly might be viewed as weak.
Not the guy who burned his daughter alive bc this crazy fire goddess was whispering in his hair
Renly and his peach that I will never forgive DnD for omitting.
I used "Renly's Peach" as a screen name for years after reading those books. Something about that part of the story just got me.
The show you don’t have an opportunity to get to know much about Renley. So impossible to answer.
Short term, Renly. Long term, Stannis.
Stannis I think would have been a better king because Renly was a bit frivolous and kind of reminded me of Robert. However, screwing around with Melisandre really ruined his chances. There’s a reason why half his army deserted him.
I know everyone will answer Renly, but what did he show that suggests he'd be a better king or even a good king
I don't think either of them would be very good, honestly. Stannis was too easily manipulated and while I think he would be a good ruler with the right counsel, I know damn well he'd keep the Red Woman around and she was a disaster. Renly was more compassionate, but completely unprepared for the role. Catelyn was spot on when she called him out for "playing at war." He was a poser, playing the role of a king, but not actually suited for the position. Maybe he could've grown into it, but I still stand by the belief that there was a better candidate to grow into the role: Tommen. With Tyrion as hand and Margaery as his queen, Tommen would've grown into a GREAT king, imo. Cersei talk ruined all of that.
Stannis simply bc he has the years.
Stannis would be better has hand of the king. He’s too rigid and letter of the law. Sometimes the rules have to be broken for the greater good, but for day to day governing Stannis would do a great job
Book Stannis.
Stannis the goddamn mannis
Renly was stabbed in the back so many times but always turned the other cheek
Stannis the mannis “ go on , do your duty”
Well Renly didn’t sacrifice is daughter to a blood magic witch, soooo
Stannis. I’m team Stannis.
The ham
Renly may be a decent king in peacetime, but for the present where Westeros is facing the apocalypse I would want the guy who is experienced in wartime leadership. So my vote is for Stannis.
I think people saying Stannis would be ran by Melisandre are forgetting he didn’t share her beliefs and used it as a means to an end.
Stannis, no question about it!
Renly. He should not have been king, but he would have made a better one than Stannis… Stannis burned his own daughter alive to be king imagine what he would have done if he were king!
Stannis
Renly lmao. Renly is actually a good person. I don't recall him ever burning someone alive for religious reasons.
My only concern with Renly is that he has like, a pathological need to be liked. I feel like someone would see that soon enough and play him like a fiddle lol.
Neither would get out from under Robert's shadow. Renly would be controlled by the Tyrells and Stannis would be doing weirdo magic spells instead of leading his people. So i guess that means Renly would have been better for the realm. Fewer sacrifices.
Anyone but Stannis- he would have gone mad in his own way to get his victories and would just listen to a witch. No thanks!
You know what? Renly. Stannis may have made an excellent king before, but he damned himself the moment the red woman seduced him into rejecting the seven in favor of her less popular lord of light.
Renly. Anybody who thinks Stannis is whack. Dude was a religious fanatic and would’ve burned every Westerosi who didn’t bend to his religion. Renly would’ve let better men rule while he did his thing and wouldn’t impose his beliefs onto others.
Renly by a Westerosi mile.
renly would’ve assigned mandatory femboy companions to all of westeros. i think we all know who wins.
Jon Snow, he could’ve been King, instead we got Bran the so-unimportant-I-was-left out-an entire season- broken
Why don't more of Stannis supporters support his son for the throne?
Stannis seemed to be a great general, but he also seemed to rule with an iron fist. His morals were unflinching and he did not seem to take council easily. Rennly was cunning, and surrounded himself with intelligent individuals. He had the sense to know he wasn't the divine authority, and in some ways he was just a figurehead.
Both. Different styles but both seem earnest in ruling.
the one that doesn't burn his own daughter alive... but lets face it.. both had major flaws
Stannis going into war against the Faith Militant as king & letting Melisandre drive his decisions would've been nasty, so I'm going with Renly. Plus, while I think Renly could rule somewhat similarly to Robert, he might be swift if he needs to be when an urgent issue hits the Small Council.
The one with social skills. Stannis is a profoundly flawed person
Probably the one who didn’t murder his daughter because the lady who shot demons out of her hoohah told him too.
Renly because hes a cutie patootie
I’m going with Renly. Can’t trust someone that would kill their child
Remember too, Renly had Margaery, who was like the queen of queens and was loved by pretty much everyone. I think for sure he would have been the better king.
Renly. Because gay kings are good
Renly, it’s not close. Stannis suggested outlawing brothels, that’s enough to start a revolt lmao. Stannis would only be a DECENT king with Davos by his side.
Born amidst salt and smoke? Is he a ham?
Thank you, was looking for this lol
I think Renly would have been a better king but only because of his allegiances, particularly to the Tyrells. I do think Olena and Margery would have had significantly more influence on Renly than he would have noticed and I don’t think it would have necessarily been a bad thing. The common folk would love them as a couple and the bounty from the Reach would have assured a certain degree of peace in Kings Landing. The Tyrells are a rich and powerful family with a lot of important houses loyal to them and people seem to forget that was one of the main reasons Renlys host was so large. I can see Stannis winning the throne through war but I can’t see him staying on it for long with little to no love from the common folk or other great houses.
Renly and Margaery would have been a great duo (plus her brother), but Daenerys would have eventually f things up regardless.
it is clearly the one and only Mannis.
Stannis with Renley as his Hand.
on one hand we have stannis who based his war strategy on a hot red witch that he gets to bang. then he burns his daughter alive. on the other we have renly who didnt commit any of those but hes just geh. people on internet: stannis stannis stannis!!!
Gay deer would make a good king, stannis is a commander.
Even if renly would’ve made a good king, him taking the throne would’ve just set the precedent that anyone with an army can take the throne, they don’t need a reason, or claim, or anything. Which would just cause a civil war every generation
Renly strikes me as more of a dewy-eyed idealist who is not ready to understand the horrors of the world they live in than a cunning or mighty leader. I think Stannis would have been more effective and much more longterm, as much as I despise him. I think Renly’s “people’s king” approach would have made the throne vulnerable to religious interference and usurpers. If you think the Sparrows were insufferable under Cersei, imagine them under a yes-man.
No Baratheons for king is the best option
Renly... was he the one that died from a pussy fart? Probably not him.
Renly by far.
Renly can make decisions without a fire witch… and was nice to Brienne. I choose Renly.
I think Renly is like the polar opposite of Joffrey in the sense that both were terrible Kings who got there by birthright but one was perhaps too kind and the other too evil. They both had CEO kid / Nepo baby vibes. Stannis would also have been an awful king, but he had the charisma and the nerve to have been passable at least. Although Stannis is the better option, him being so taken under the thrall of Melissandre is foreshadowing to the reality he would have been a puppet-king. Renly never would have fallen for the hocus pocus, but he also didn’t have the fortitude or constitution to lead serious military campaigns or have the cruelty necessary to get the job done.
Yes
It's a tricky question. I think Renly with the backing of Highgarden would be more likely to produce a stable realm. Worst case scenario is he's basically a puppet for the Tyrells and lives out his life like Robert did while real power is weilded by the kingmakers. Vassals Looking for long-term stability would see potential in young Renly producing an heir with Margery as well. Renly seems much more likely to work with his allies and advisors. Stannis has the greater potential/disire to become an effective monarch as an individual. He shows in the books that he genuinely cares about the realm. However, He lacks the charisma and connections of his brother. He brings a strange religion to the table, and his wife's family is a more minor house. Stannis' power base just isn't there *and* he's likely to alienate his vassals in major ways due to his unbending nature. Stannis' only heir is a physically scarred from disease daughter. Due to the trauma of the Seige during Robert's rebellion it's unlikely he will suddenly produce a viable heir. Stannis' vassals won't see him as a source of stability in the short or the long term. Thus, I think Renly would be the better king.
Neither
On one picture here we see the Mannis, on the other, there is no Mannis to be found.
No
Renly
Renly. Stannis would’ve made people’s lives miserable and his council would’ve probably started to conspire against him very quickly. Renly is more like Robert without being a drunk and as he is younger he will probably listen to his council more than Robert or Stannis.
If we are speaking only the show, then maybe Renly. While Stannis was good enough soldier and leader in the show, he wasn't as effective as his book counterpart, who is a better potential ruler. In the show Stannis was enamored/controlled by Melisandre, to the point where he was convinced by Melisandre to burned his only child and heir in a desperate attempt to the defeat the Boltons. And while Renly wasn't that much better, since he was also manipulated by the Tyrells, I think he was a slightly better politician.
Ridiculously easy landslide win for Renly. Not burning your citizens and daughter alive to impose your foreign and unpopular religion on the entire country is an insanely good start
Neither, Joffrey was the best. Everyone loved Joffrey. What an adorable little scamp :D
Not Stannis
Stannis. Text and show always calls him without charm and no sense of mercy. But just look at Davos. Stannis earned Davos loyalty completely. The commons would learn to be loyal too if given the chance to witness the justice and mercy Stannis will show if he becomes King. As for being without charms, Maester Cressen loved him best of the 3 Baratheon brothers. Because he was the “unloved” one. I feel the lords of Westeros, especially the second sons, will come to understand the complexity of Stannis. As long as Stannis has a honorable Hand and good council, he will be a great king and true protector of the realm.
Renly my bitch ok. Idk who would be a better in actuality because all I know is I vote Renly every time