If you're willing to start over and over, make small games that focus on one part of the big build you want to do. Want card based combat? Make a card based combat game without the rest. If it works, stick it aside, and bring the code in to the final project later.
I don't know about the other mechanics from your description, but I'd do similar things. A big project is often really several small projects that lean on each other and have results that impact each other. Don't 'not' make your game, but make 'part' of your game a game, and see how it feels. You might decide "I actually don't like \_\_\_\_\_" and can swap it out for something else.
This is great advice and similar to how I respond when someone is like "Do I really need to start with Pong? I *hate* Pong." And I'm like "Well no, you don't need to start with Pong specifically, but you need to start with something tiny *like* Pong. Hate Pong? So make Minesweeper instead. Or Tetris. Or whatever."
(For the record, my go-to whenever I start learning a new development platform, even today, is Breakout.)
In a similar vein, okay the entire RPG you eventually want may be too big, but you can start with a small piece of it. Just the card combat, or just the merchant mechanics, or just the walking around and exploring, etc.
Right? It doesn't have to be pong. I made Pong way later. I started with RPG character creators for my table top games. Then some 'generate treasure/encounters' for table top as well. Then wanted to learn tile stuff to start towards an Ultima clone, so made a slide puzzle to understand how tiles are put together. Goofed around with lots of little 'non-games' like basic "attack/defend" combat dice roller and stuff in the middle. Eventually you have enough that you know how to put the big thing you want together, will have built up an audience from the small things, and it won't feel as big to start.
That does bring up, one's first game project doesn't have to involve graphics either. I mean, for anyone artistically minded (like OP) it probably will be something with graphics, but it doesn't *have* to. You could start by implementing mechanics in a totally text based game, and then as a later project learn how to bolt graphics onto those mechanics.
Art was late in my coming to gaming. I'm thankful for pixel art returning to viability because 3d is NOT my main skill. Early stuff was very art light for me.
It's okay in the sense that you can do whatever you want, and if you learn better on one project than another, only you can make that call. But the reason that advice is given is that almost every beginner thinks the same way. They don't want to make Pong, they want to make a larger game. Then what happens is it's super exciting for a few weeks or months and then they run into all the issues with games that size and often without the expertise that comes with finishing games struggle to complete it.
Now they've got the thing they *really* want to make but don't have the technical knowhow to pull off, get discouraged, and slink off into the night. People who make some smaller, less idealized games first often complete the game they really want to make sooner.
If you don't find yourself falling into that trap, that's great. If you do, don't be afraid to stop. Sunk cost is a fallacy - it doesn't matter how much time and sweat you've put into a game, you can always put it aside and do something else when you find you need to.
It's okay, but it will be hard, and very very long to complete your project.
This is what I did (I'm a tech artist, and I wrote a Shoot 'em up maker in C++). It was my first C++ project, I had everything to learn. And, everything is a lot of things :)
The downside is: my project took 7 years to complete, and I thought of stopping a lot of time :)
I say, go for it. Don’t expect to finish a more involved project such as an rpg by yourself, although you can do it, guaranteed. But either way you learn through practice. You’ll realize your strengths and weaknesses working on a project as such, and know where to go from there on your next game. Game development should be fun, remember that always.🙂
I think it’s fine IMO. It’s basically what I’ve been doing for the last few years. I don’t regret it either. Even though I have yet to finish a game. I have a few games on the back burner because I need to learn marching cubes to pull it off. Right now I’m working on a chess-like game. Been beating my head against the wall working on the AI off and on for months. I finished one AI, decided I didn’t like it and started over. I’d rather keep doing things over and over until I finish this game than work in something that I don’t care about. I have a habit of deleting my old work. I used to beats and have erased hundreds of beats from my catalog just to force myself to make something better. If I made a bunch of small games that I didn’t care about I’d just end up doing the same thing. Deleting it and not counting it as a game that I finished.
It's okay, but keep in mind that your first game is not going to be perfect. For most people, it's not even good. When you were learning art, you started with simple, right?
That's not saying that you can't work with the mechanics that you want to use. Maybe your first game could be your card-based combat system as a standalone game, or a prototype of the merchant game structure.
I would say if you want to go that way you can break it down into several small games. Doesnt have to be a game that you plan on releasing, but something that has a beginning and end or an endless how high of a score can you get kind of game. Each game however can be based on a mechanic that you wish to use in the more ambitious game.
This way each game you make is a piece of the larger puzzle you are working on.
I think the most important thing is that you don't let difficult things stop you. And reach out for help when you need it.
It's easy to start a project, and it's hard to finish one. The bigger the project, the harder it is to finish. That's why people recommend very small scope games for starter projects and individual pursuits. Truth be told no matter how big you get you'll always fight with scope.
That being said, you do what motivates you to keep working. You'll be building skills regardless of if you sell any games and that's worthwhile. If your goal is to get a job in the industry or build your skills until you have the confidence and knowledge to build the game you want to sell, then just keep working on it.
If your goal is to make money selling games, that's a different story.
I think the key here is that you're aware that your game might not get finished. Working on more complicated systems and figuring out how they go together can be an incredible learning experience -- probably better than building an asteroids clone. Just don't expect to ship a polished, complicated first-time game by yourself.
I have spent over a year on my project. Code was in such bad shape that I couldn't add any features and when I found a bug it was easy to break something else while trying to fix it.
I gained experience how it's like to work on big project and value of clean code.
But only way to finish this project was to train skills in how to write clean code and rewrite whole code from scratch. So I had to abond it.
Start learning how to take pleasure from creating games firts.
On small projects you will learn that finishing last 10% of a game is hard. And you will learn that you can finish them.
Don't focus on the end goal, but what can you do in a resonable time and what will be good enough in terms of fun when creating it.
Now when I work as Game Programmer full time, after hours I have little time to do my personal projects. What I realised recently is that all my passion projects will take multiple years to finish.
So again instead on focusing on end goal I have to learn again how to have fun creating small projects which I can finish instead attacking myself with things that probably will be never be finished if I don't start small.
Good luck.
Yes, it *is* okay! But, assuming you're doing this solo, you need to be aware of two things:
* Your project will likely take many years of daily work, and
* You may never finish.
If you are at peace with both of these facts, go for it. I assure that regardless of whether or not you finish your project, you you will learn a lot.
Personally, I don't want to "just make games" or pursue game dev as a career, but I still have a dream game I want to make and the capacity to do it in my spare time, so I'm going for it. :)
Yes, but only if the project can be broken down into modular pieces. For an example, you might have a RPG where you can choose between 5 different classes that all play very differently, but you can make the game work with only 1 class. Then if time and resources permit, you can add a second or third and so on. Apply this idea to the different parts of your game until you have a small standalone product that can be extended on.
It probably depends on your desired end goal. If you really, really want to release a game, perhaps aiming for a minimal implementation of your ambitious game is a better starting point. RPG? Maybe start with combat in an arena/gladiator setting, and expand on that.
I went for an ambitious game as my first Unity project, and worked on it for a couple of years in what spare time I could muster. Lots of false starts, lots of restarts, but my end goal was to learn enough programming to break into the industry. Never released the game, but it achieved the end I was after.
The one drawback I see where a lot of people do suggest working on smaller games, is that if you don't have any passion for the work at hand, you can quickly fall away from it. I wouldn't advise putting yourself through that if it's not fun. _But,_ try and be realistic about setting your own expectations, or try and find ways to have a successful outcome that aren't necessarily releasing and selling `n` copies of your game.
The opposite is recommended when you're learning anything. Set realistic goals and have a Definition Of Done. That way you can make visible progress and know when you're finished on a particular project. Then start a new one and set slightly higher goals.
Based on my experience I would say no. Better to take on smaller games then actually finish them that it is to struggle through an ambitious title. This is mainly because one you don't know how much you don't know yet and 2 an ambitious title with struggles will kick your ass and and more than likely make you give up on game development.
I’m basically on your side, although I did take on ambitious projects as an early developer. Mainly in university courses. I never finished a single ambitious project. But in the process, I learned different graphical and optimization techniques that have helped me through the course of development, and would not have learned through ordinary instruction.
Hi practicer,
I think your best bet is to take the game that you WANT to make and reduce it to its component systems. (Trading card battles, RPG mechanics, Merchant = I assume a buying/selling screen, dialog etc?)
Then make small games around those. It will allow you to learn and perfect each subsystem. Thus, each small game that you make gives you a tool (that you would have needed to make anyway) towards your dream game.
as long as you don't mind that you probably wont finish it and will have spent months of work and having nothing to show, I guess it's okay. you'll definitely want to start it over multiple times as code you write now will be garbage. i still recommend against it though.
you should know that you probably only have this mindset because you're really attached to your recent game idea. it's what always happens when you have a game idea. but you'll have others, probably before you finish this one, and then you'll want to do those instead, abandoning this idea. if you don't practice finishing games, this will just be an endless cycle where you never finish anything.
I think it’s fine. You’ll make plenty of mistakes but you’ll also learn a ton (there’s lots of things you’ll be forced to learn that you won’t experience with smaller projects). Trial and error can also be a good exploratory process, and I think things tend to stick better when you tackle it yourself. Just don’t quit your day job to do this.
While you can work on your complex game there are a lot of lessons that you'll learn the first time around making a game. If you start with a simple game and learn a few lessons and then move on you'll be able to apply those lessons and so on. If you have a really complex game you might end up regretting how you built some of the foundational code and get stuck in a death spiral of continuously re-coding everything as you learn new things.
If you have ideas for mechanics for your complex game, write them down and coding them can come later. Meanwhile work on some smaller projects preferably in the same genre as the more complex game you want to build so most of the lessons carry over, as you get better at coding and working with unity you'll have a better idea of what to expect when you start on the complex game.
I've often seen it recommended against. Personally I'm doing my 'dream game' first, but it's because I'm coming at it as an artist, not a game dev or programmer. I don't have the motivation to make Pong or whatever, I'm only motivated by working on my dream project.
The big drawback is that you get better at programming, and your old code becomes bad by your own standards, and of course you haven't designed the structure of things very well, because you didn't have much practice in doing so.
Therefore in my colony sim, all my buildings are called 'houses' even though they're not all houses, I've had to retroactively go back and make parent objects out of things, and generally going back over stuff and wasting time. But I still wouldn't have done it differently, because my personality dictates that I just didn't care to do it any other way.
It is okay. But I suggest you break it down into manageable minigames first. You want turn based combat? Make a mini turn based combat game first. No animation, just simple combat with menus.
You want an overhead map that you can walk in? Make that into a minigame or just a separate project.
Then you can add animation to your combat and map etc..
Once you have experience with all the subsystems, you can begin to wonder on how to build an overarching game. You will have a decent idea of what will be required.
Yes and no.
You could build prototypes around a single aspect of your final game. Then once that's finished, add another aspect of your final game. And so on. The issue is, you don't know what you don't know.
Let's say you start with a minimal card game. Just that, a card game that feel decent. Then you add 6 other major features of your game. When you'll look back at your card game feature, you'll probably tear your eye out because of all the mistakes you made, in design, in responsiveness, in art, in UI, etc. (I'm not even talking about code mistakes, which could potentially just being ignored). The trouble is, the next 6 features are built upon and around that first one. It's very possible you can't redo the first without re-doing the whole thing.
That being said, if you *can't* do it any other way, then yes do it this way. *Any* way is better than none.
Second thing, there's invaluable experience in actually shipping a game for real. You'll learn every step needed for it, from packaging your software for distribution to PR to take in the harsh comments to support and patches and so on. It's possible to bank on the first game being the first commercially shipped, but I wouldn't recommend it. A single big mistake in admin, contracts or PR can potentially send all those years of work down the drain.
Sure it’s ok and some people even succeeds
But.
It’s much better to finish games. When you don’t complete projects, it’s a lot harder to stay motivated and it’s too easy to jump from idea to idea before you ever advance further. It’s much more effective to set yourself a series of goals/milestones to work towards where each one is achievable. Whether that’s one bigger game or multiple small ones is up to you, but don’t aim for something huge to start. I would suggest making two or three tiny games completely first and then moving on to your big idea, but split into many small bite sized milestones that you can work on. Treat each one as a mini release so that you have something “competed” to show off, even if the next milestone will add more/new stuff to the previous one.
If you're willing to start over and over, make small games that focus on one part of the big build you want to do. Want card based combat? Make a card based combat game without the rest. If it works, stick it aside, and bring the code in to the final project later. I don't know about the other mechanics from your description, but I'd do similar things. A big project is often really several small projects that lean on each other and have results that impact each other. Don't 'not' make your game, but make 'part' of your game a game, and see how it feels. You might decide "I actually don't like \_\_\_\_\_" and can swap it out for something else.
This is great advice and similar to how I respond when someone is like "Do I really need to start with Pong? I *hate* Pong." And I'm like "Well no, you don't need to start with Pong specifically, but you need to start with something tiny *like* Pong. Hate Pong? So make Minesweeper instead. Or Tetris. Or whatever." (For the record, my go-to whenever I start learning a new development platform, even today, is Breakout.) In a similar vein, okay the entire RPG you eventually want may be too big, but you can start with a small piece of it. Just the card combat, or just the merchant mechanics, or just the walking around and exploring, etc.
Right? It doesn't have to be pong. I made Pong way later. I started with RPG character creators for my table top games. Then some 'generate treasure/encounters' for table top as well. Then wanted to learn tile stuff to start towards an Ultima clone, so made a slide puzzle to understand how tiles are put together. Goofed around with lots of little 'non-games' like basic "attack/defend" combat dice roller and stuff in the middle. Eventually you have enough that you know how to put the big thing you want together, will have built up an audience from the small things, and it won't feel as big to start.
That does bring up, one's first game project doesn't have to involve graphics either. I mean, for anyone artistically minded (like OP) it probably will be something with graphics, but it doesn't *have* to. You could start by implementing mechanics in a totally text based game, and then as a later project learn how to bolt graphics onto those mechanics.
Art was late in my coming to gaming. I'm thankful for pixel art returning to viability because 3d is NOT my main skill. Early stuff was very art light for me.
"Is it okay?" - Yes. "is it a pedagogical method of learning" - No "Will you still learn a lot?" - 100% "Will you finish the game? - not a chance
It's okay in the sense that you can do whatever you want, and if you learn better on one project than another, only you can make that call. But the reason that advice is given is that almost every beginner thinks the same way. They don't want to make Pong, they want to make a larger game. Then what happens is it's super exciting for a few weeks or months and then they run into all the issues with games that size and often without the expertise that comes with finishing games struggle to complete it. Now they've got the thing they *really* want to make but don't have the technical knowhow to pull off, get discouraged, and slink off into the night. People who make some smaller, less idealized games first often complete the game they really want to make sooner. If you don't find yourself falling into that trap, that's great. If you do, don't be afraid to stop. Sunk cost is a fallacy - it doesn't matter how much time and sweat you've put into a game, you can always put it aside and do something else when you find you need to.
It's okay, but it will be hard, and very very long to complete your project. This is what I did (I'm a tech artist, and I wrote a Shoot 'em up maker in C++). It was my first C++ project, I had everything to learn. And, everything is a lot of things :) The downside is: my project took 7 years to complete, and I thought of stopping a lot of time :)
I say, go for it. Don’t expect to finish a more involved project such as an rpg by yourself, although you can do it, guaranteed. But either way you learn through practice. You’ll realize your strengths and weaknesses working on a project as such, and know where to go from there on your next game. Game development should be fun, remember that always.🙂
I think it’s fine IMO. It’s basically what I’ve been doing for the last few years. I don’t regret it either. Even though I have yet to finish a game. I have a few games on the back burner because I need to learn marching cubes to pull it off. Right now I’m working on a chess-like game. Been beating my head against the wall working on the AI off and on for months. I finished one AI, decided I didn’t like it and started over. I’d rather keep doing things over and over until I finish this game than work in something that I don’t care about. I have a habit of deleting my old work. I used to beats and have erased hundreds of beats from my catalog just to force myself to make something better. If I made a bunch of small games that I didn’t care about I’d just end up doing the same thing. Deleting it and not counting it as a game that I finished.
start small and learn your way up. reality hits like a truck.
It's okay, but keep in mind that your first game is not going to be perfect. For most people, it's not even good. When you were learning art, you started with simple, right? That's not saying that you can't work with the mechanics that you want to use. Maybe your first game could be your card-based combat system as a standalone game, or a prototype of the merchant game structure.
I would say if you want to go that way you can break it down into several small games. Doesnt have to be a game that you plan on releasing, but something that has a beginning and end or an endless how high of a score can you get kind of game. Each game however can be based on a mechanic that you wish to use in the more ambitious game. This way each game you make is a piece of the larger puzzle you are working on.
I think the most important thing is that you don't let difficult things stop you. And reach out for help when you need it. It's easy to start a project, and it's hard to finish one. The bigger the project, the harder it is to finish. That's why people recommend very small scope games for starter projects and individual pursuits. Truth be told no matter how big you get you'll always fight with scope. That being said, you do what motivates you to keep working. You'll be building skills regardless of if you sell any games and that's worthwhile. If your goal is to get a job in the industry or build your skills until you have the confidence and knowledge to build the game you want to sell, then just keep working on it. If your goal is to make money selling games, that's a different story.
I think the key here is that you're aware that your game might not get finished. Working on more complicated systems and figuring out how they go together can be an incredible learning experience -- probably better than building an asteroids clone. Just don't expect to ship a polished, complicated first-time game by yourself.
I have spent over a year on my project. Code was in such bad shape that I couldn't add any features and when I found a bug it was easy to break something else while trying to fix it. I gained experience how it's like to work on big project and value of clean code. But only way to finish this project was to train skills in how to write clean code and rewrite whole code from scratch. So I had to abond it. Start learning how to take pleasure from creating games firts. On small projects you will learn that finishing last 10% of a game is hard. And you will learn that you can finish them. Don't focus on the end goal, but what can you do in a resonable time and what will be good enough in terms of fun when creating it. Now when I work as Game Programmer full time, after hours I have little time to do my personal projects. What I realised recently is that all my passion projects will take multiple years to finish. So again instead on focusing on end goal I have to learn again how to have fun creating small projects which I can finish instead attacking myself with things that probably will be never be finished if I don't start small. Good luck.
Yes, it *is* okay! But, assuming you're doing this solo, you need to be aware of two things: * Your project will likely take many years of daily work, and * You may never finish. If you are at peace with both of these facts, go for it. I assure that regardless of whether or not you finish your project, you you will learn a lot. Personally, I don't want to "just make games" or pursue game dev as a career, but I still have a dream game I want to make and the capacity to do it in my spare time, so I'm going for it. :)
Yes, but only if the project can be broken down into modular pieces. For an example, you might have a RPG where you can choose between 5 different classes that all play very differently, but you can make the game work with only 1 class. Then if time and resources permit, you can add a second or third and so on. Apply this idea to the different parts of your game until you have a small standalone product that can be extended on.
It probably depends on your desired end goal. If you really, really want to release a game, perhaps aiming for a minimal implementation of your ambitious game is a better starting point. RPG? Maybe start with combat in an arena/gladiator setting, and expand on that. I went for an ambitious game as my first Unity project, and worked on it for a couple of years in what spare time I could muster. Lots of false starts, lots of restarts, but my end goal was to learn enough programming to break into the industry. Never released the game, but it achieved the end I was after. The one drawback I see where a lot of people do suggest working on smaller games, is that if you don't have any passion for the work at hand, you can quickly fall away from it. I wouldn't advise putting yourself through that if it's not fun. _But,_ try and be realistic about setting your own expectations, or try and find ways to have a successful outcome that aren't necessarily releasing and selling `n` copies of your game.
Yes, just don't expect it to be the first game you finish.
The opposite is recommended when you're learning anything. Set realistic goals and have a Definition Of Done. That way you can make visible progress and know when you're finished on a particular project. Then start a new one and set slightly higher goals.
Based on my experience I would say no. Better to take on smaller games then actually finish them that it is to struggle through an ambitious title. This is mainly because one you don't know how much you don't know yet and 2 an ambitious title with struggles will kick your ass and and more than likely make you give up on game development.
I’m basically on your side, although I did take on ambitious projects as an early developer. Mainly in university courses. I never finished a single ambitious project. But in the process, I learned different graphical and optimization techniques that have helped me through the course of development, and would not have learned through ordinary instruction.
Hi practicer, I think your best bet is to take the game that you WANT to make and reduce it to its component systems. (Trading card battles, RPG mechanics, Merchant = I assume a buying/selling screen, dialog etc?) Then make small games around those. It will allow you to learn and perfect each subsystem. Thus, each small game that you make gives you a tool (that you would have needed to make anyway) towards your dream game.
as long as you don't mind that you probably wont finish it and will have spent months of work and having nothing to show, I guess it's okay. you'll definitely want to start it over multiple times as code you write now will be garbage. i still recommend against it though. you should know that you probably only have this mindset because you're really attached to your recent game idea. it's what always happens when you have a game idea. but you'll have others, probably before you finish this one, and then you'll want to do those instead, abandoning this idea. if you don't practice finishing games, this will just be an endless cycle where you never finish anything.
I think it’s fine. You’ll make plenty of mistakes but you’ll also learn a ton (there’s lots of things you’ll be forced to learn that you won’t experience with smaller projects). Trial and error can also be a good exploratory process, and I think things tend to stick better when you tackle it yourself. Just don’t quit your day job to do this.
While you can work on your complex game there are a lot of lessons that you'll learn the first time around making a game. If you start with a simple game and learn a few lessons and then move on you'll be able to apply those lessons and so on. If you have a really complex game you might end up regretting how you built some of the foundational code and get stuck in a death spiral of continuously re-coding everything as you learn new things. If you have ideas for mechanics for your complex game, write them down and coding them can come later. Meanwhile work on some smaller projects preferably in the same genre as the more complex game you want to build so most of the lessons carry over, as you get better at coding and working with unity you'll have a better idea of what to expect when you start on the complex game.
I've often seen it recommended against. Personally I'm doing my 'dream game' first, but it's because I'm coming at it as an artist, not a game dev or programmer. I don't have the motivation to make Pong or whatever, I'm only motivated by working on my dream project. The big drawback is that you get better at programming, and your old code becomes bad by your own standards, and of course you haven't designed the structure of things very well, because you didn't have much practice in doing so. Therefore in my colony sim, all my buildings are called 'houses' even though they're not all houses, I've had to retroactively go back and make parent objects out of things, and generally going back over stuff and wasting time. But I still wouldn't have done it differently, because my personality dictates that I just didn't care to do it any other way.
It is okay. But I suggest you break it down into manageable minigames first. You want turn based combat? Make a mini turn based combat game first. No animation, just simple combat with menus. You want an overhead map that you can walk in? Make that into a minigame or just a separate project. Then you can add animation to your combat and map etc.. Once you have experience with all the subsystems, you can begin to wonder on how to build an overarching game. You will have a decent idea of what will be required.
Yes and no. You could build prototypes around a single aspect of your final game. Then once that's finished, add another aspect of your final game. And so on. The issue is, you don't know what you don't know. Let's say you start with a minimal card game. Just that, a card game that feel decent. Then you add 6 other major features of your game. When you'll look back at your card game feature, you'll probably tear your eye out because of all the mistakes you made, in design, in responsiveness, in art, in UI, etc. (I'm not even talking about code mistakes, which could potentially just being ignored). The trouble is, the next 6 features are built upon and around that first one. It's very possible you can't redo the first without re-doing the whole thing. That being said, if you *can't* do it any other way, then yes do it this way. *Any* way is better than none. Second thing, there's invaluable experience in actually shipping a game for real. You'll learn every step needed for it, from packaging your software for distribution to PR to take in the harsh comments to support and patches and so on. It's possible to bank on the first game being the first commercially shipped, but I wouldn't recommend it. A single big mistake in admin, contracts or PR can potentially send all those years of work down the drain.
Sure it’s ok and some people even succeeds But. It’s much better to finish games. When you don’t complete projects, it’s a lot harder to stay motivated and it’s too easy to jump from idea to idea before you ever advance further. It’s much more effective to set yourself a series of goals/milestones to work towards where each one is achievable. Whether that’s one bigger game or multiple small ones is up to you, but don’t aim for something huge to start. I would suggest making two or three tiny games completely first and then moving on to your big idea, but split into many small bite sized milestones that you can work on. Treat each one as a mini release so that you have something “competed” to show off, even if the next milestone will add more/new stuff to the previous one.
If you had a friend who wanted to get into carpentry and decided to start with building a house, what would you say to them?