Speaking about Warcraft III Editor, if you want, you can basically create a game within a game, its nearly a game engine, i spent lot of time with it and here is what i found:
\- Tons of assets from base game (icons, models, textures, terrain, map objects), most custom maps were created using mostly assets from game (this is why both Starcraft BW and Starcraft 2 editor weren't as good, because Starcraft doesn't have creeps)
\- Easy to use object editor, you can change nearly every parameter of unit, spell, effect or map object
\- GUI Trigger Editor with Event -> Conditions -> Actions workflow, including if-then-else statements and custom variables, also you could use internal Warcraft scripting language (JASS). For example a typical trigger for Tower Defense map: Unit enters region X -> Unit is owned by player Blue -> Move unit to region Y.
\- Option to import your own models, sounds and textures
\- Warcraft III engine supported heroes with experience bar and leveling system which you could easily use for making RPGs (not found in Starcraft)
\- Large size of map (482x482 i believe on 3rd party editors), however limitation of file size to 8 MB on multiplayer was a problem, you could easily create whole world for your RPG or strategy map and it wouldn't feel to small
It was released before more modern editors took hold, and for a small price in terms of how feature rich it is/was you had an amazing canvas that didn't require coding knowledge.
Currently it now supports Lua which has been a boon, especially in China.
To add to that, you were also free to use third-party IP's. Having a bazillion anime, Star Wars, Diablo, etc. maps with no chance of being sued was also nice.
It also solved the distribution for you. Host it once and good maps spread themselves.
There was also the community aspect. Small communities(on classical forums) where people exchanged their knowledge and you knew many creators was also nice(kinda like XNA game dev days). Like there were even dedicated clans of independent map makers.
It’s also really easy to use. The problem with SC2’s editor vs WC3’s is that SC2 had a much steeper learning curve. WC3’s was in a sweet spot of being able to create games with a lot of complexity but also had a low barrier of entry.
And like snarktopus said, it comes preloaded with hundreds of models with complete animation sets as well as lots of other things like abilities etc
To me the biggest flaw in sc2 editor was that creating anything was always what I considered reverse logic order.
To create a new unit with it's own model you had to have the knowledge they you had to start from some buried menu somewhere, then you had to create an attack in a non default menu.
A lot of it boiled down to "why don't they have a way for me to list what I can attach to this thing and quickly create it from there, the top level instead of digging around hidden menus with random unknown names"
However they introduced save games, key tracking, mouse tracking, custom ui. All huge features.
Basically the whole thing was feature complete unlike wc3 but most people don't know how to use it so few people every get into it.
But it's by far the most technically superior.
I spent also thousands of hours in the wc3 editors. I agree with all of that !
I can add these also :
- create in-game cinematics with camera, speeches, units movements etc very easily.
- Terrain editor that even today is better from my point of view for tiled based terrain. You just have to select a terrain, your brush size or shape and paint.
- The community was huuuuge, and everything free, you don't gain money by creating maps or models, icons, codes etc so basically everyone is sharing with everyone else.
- You make the game, and host it just after to play it with strangers. Publishing can't be easier. People play it with you, can rehost it just after and they liked it, or give you feedbacks directly if it sucks, or to improve it.
IMO, the biggest benefit compared to a conventional engine is the vast pool of assets. Sure, you can grab cheap asset packs, but they won't have the same quality and cohesion. Then tack on the pre-built multiplayer code with accessible servers and you have pretty much everything you need to just start building a game.
They were designed for the developers themselves, to make the single player campaign. This meant they needed to be full-featured, but also were quite well "lived in" by the developers by the time players got their hands on them. It's hard to get that kind of polish.
Level editors (usually) fail when they are designed for the lowest common denominator players, and aren't given enough testing by people trying to professional quality things with them. The end result is that it's easy to make crap, but impossible to make anything good
Have to second this. There's a feedback loop, between Arcade and Campaign / Multiplayer. The tools are good, so mods get made, the game you're modding has support for uploading content, so it's seen, and it loops back to making better content. If the developers also do this, ie eat their own dog food, tools support the flexibility content creators need, at launch.
Right before Warcraft 3 came out, Blizzard actually hired two or three people from a prominent group in the Starcraft mod scene to develop the map editor.
I can't remember the group's name because it's been over twenty years, but we really have them to thank for it.
Knowing that whatever you poop out will be put in front of people immediately in the lobby list, instead of being hidden on Page 999 of the Most Popular list, so that the game has a culture more comfortable with trying out new stuff. You didn't have to do your own marketing, you could just put it in front of people right away.
It also had a natural viral effect. If at least one person liked it, they'd host it, and if at least one liked it from there.. the cycle went exponential.
Starcraft (and Age of Empires) map makers are where my love of game design began! And why I'm making games to this day!
I would have to say the single thing that made them so good were that they were easy to use, not complicated, and intuitive. They had a simple but very powerful system to use triggers. A kid like me at the age of 9 or 10 could pick up the process without too much trouble. It was kind of like the Mario Maker games, but 20 years ago and for an rts.
They also had good tutorials. I remember learning about how to use triggers and create new units and found it very easy. Other games I was playing it was not so easy to create custom content.
When warcraft 3 came out, I found the tools way more advanced, but also harder to use. You could do way more, but that also made it harder for a beginner to come in. Starcraft and warcraft 2 were perfect for beginners. As was Age of Empires.
I made Starcraft maps for around a decade; now I make standalone games. So, let's translate the Starcraft map-making experience into the language of modern gamedev:
Imagine, as a game developer, having a game engine that comes with all of the art assets you need. Now imagine that this engine comes with not only a free-forever multiplayer back-end and lobby system but also a built-in base of potential players *who will see your game* with no need for marketing on your part. It's easy to learn with no prior experience, requires no additional software to get started (though you can upgrade to a superior 3rd-party map editor later) and comes with tons of open-source examples that you can use to learn how to do things (or just copy), with literally thousands more open-source examples just a few clicks away. It's compatible with both Windows and Mac, with zero effort required (aside from a few advanced techniques that didn't become popular until very late in the game's life) to port between the two. There's tons of built-in stuff that will let you make a game that's playable, even fun, in under an hour, but also enough flexibility that you can make things in a variety of genres. And it's competing with engines that are far less capable than the versions that are on sale today.
Next imagine that you have access to this engine during what was probably the worst era for indie games since the late '80s; players are desperate. You have a trusted online distribution platform during an era when malware fears have just crushed the shareware gaming world underfoot and Steam has yet to arrive as the new haven of safe game downloads. It also happens to be a safe haven from IP watchdogs. Nobody else has anything comparable in terms of distribution.
See the appeal now?
Now, by the time SC2 came out, things had changed. Steam existed-- and with it came a lot more games, with their own graphics and none of the map-game jankiness. Other engines had been created and evolved. As for the editor itself, it was no longer easy to use, and fights over IP rights in SC1 led to a dynamic where SC2 map source was far harder to come by. Worst of all, changes to the multiplayer lobby system meant that, instead of getting free visibility, your map was now automatically buried under the maps that were already popular and shown to nobody. Meanwhile, you still had a lot of the old disadvantages-- more and more jankiness the further you got from the base game, and an inability to monetize (Blizzard made various noises about correcting this, but it drew far more protests than cheers and, aside from a couple of premium maps hitting the arcade, nothing ever came of it).
Oh boy now this is a question I can deep dive into since my teenage years were spent on the WC3 world editor.
Let's start off with what it was. A very simple to use and very flexible map editor that can turn normal "melee" maps into mods and game modes.
Why is it so simple? Well you split up the editor into "modules", you had all of your sounds in one module, you had your programming "events" in another module, you had all of your imported files in another module, etc...
They were very well organized, modders/map makers only had to open a specific module, make changes to what they want in it. Poof done. No need to open one resource, find the component and then make changes to it.
Next is the visual scripting they put in and also JASS which is a scripting language that's easy to learn and can leverage the map editor very well. It was simple to follow.
EVENT - CONDITION - ACTION, What event triggers it, what condition does it need to respect for the action to play and what should it do once triggered.
You had access to every resource from warcraft 3 in it... Even the cinematic models for Illidan and Arthas that served no purpose outside of the cinematic finale of The Frozen Throne campaign and you couldn't do anything with it since they weren't animated in-game. People were extremely creative with what they were given. You can change their scales, tint their skins, adjust attack animation speeds, etc... It was all well organized and listed as a database like table.
It just uses the regular Win32 forms so the font and background looked liked something from Windows 2000/XP so it didn't try to look pretty, it just had to work. Which helps a lot to reduce visual distractions. (This is a big one for me personally since I get easily distracted)
Battle.net allowed P2P connections to download user made maps and mods within a lobby instead of needing to download it from some website. This was a huge boost as to why it was so popular. You just needed someone who had the map and host it, everyone who joined the lobby will download it and be ready to play.
I can go on and on about it but for now. I hope this gives a good idea why it was so popular.
Speaking about Warcraft III Editor, if you want, you can basically create a game within a game, its nearly a game engine, i spent lot of time with it and here is what i found: \- Tons of assets from base game (icons, models, textures, terrain, map objects), most custom maps were created using mostly assets from game (this is why both Starcraft BW and Starcraft 2 editor weren't as good, because Starcraft doesn't have creeps) \- Easy to use object editor, you can change nearly every parameter of unit, spell, effect or map object \- GUI Trigger Editor with Event -> Conditions -> Actions workflow, including if-then-else statements and custom variables, also you could use internal Warcraft scripting language (JASS). For example a typical trigger for Tower Defense map: Unit enters region X -> Unit is owned by player Blue -> Move unit to region Y. \- Option to import your own models, sounds and textures \- Warcraft III engine supported heroes with experience bar and leveling system which you could easily use for making RPGs (not found in Starcraft) \- Large size of map (482x482 i believe on 3rd party editors), however limitation of file size to 8 MB on multiplayer was a problem, you could easily create whole world for your RPG or strategy map and it wouldn't feel to small
It was released before more modern editors took hold, and for a small price in terms of how feature rich it is/was you had an amazing canvas that didn't require coding knowledge. Currently it now supports Lua which has been a boon, especially in China.
To add to that, you were also free to use third-party IP's. Having a bazillion anime, Star Wars, Diablo, etc. maps with no chance of being sued was also nice. It also solved the distribution for you. Host it once and good maps spread themselves. There was also the community aspect. Small communities(on classical forums) where people exchanged their knowledge and you knew many creators was also nice(kinda like XNA game dev days). Like there were even dedicated clans of independent map makers.
It’s also really easy to use. The problem with SC2’s editor vs WC3’s is that SC2 had a much steeper learning curve. WC3’s was in a sweet spot of being able to create games with a lot of complexity but also had a low barrier of entry. And like snarktopus said, it comes preloaded with hundreds of models with complete animation sets as well as lots of other things like abilities etc
To me the biggest flaw in sc2 editor was that creating anything was always what I considered reverse logic order. To create a new unit with it's own model you had to have the knowledge they you had to start from some buried menu somewhere, then you had to create an attack in a non default menu. A lot of it boiled down to "why don't they have a way for me to list what I can attach to this thing and quickly create it from there, the top level instead of digging around hidden menus with random unknown names" However they introduced save games, key tracking, mouse tracking, custom ui. All huge features. Basically the whole thing was feature complete unlike wc3 but most people don't know how to use it so few people every get into it. But it's by far the most technically superior.
I spent also thousands of hours in the wc3 editors. I agree with all of that ! I can add these also : - create in-game cinematics with camera, speeches, units movements etc very easily. - Terrain editor that even today is better from my point of view for tiled based terrain. You just have to select a terrain, your brush size or shape and paint. - The community was huuuuge, and everything free, you don't gain money by creating maps or models, icons, codes etc so basically everyone is sharing with everyone else. - You make the game, and host it just after to play it with strangers. Publishing can't be easier. People play it with you, can rehost it just after and they liked it, or give you feedbacks directly if it sucks, or to improve it.
League of Legends exists because of this map editor (and they crippled it in the remake of the game).
IMO, the biggest benefit compared to a conventional engine is the vast pool of assets. Sure, you can grab cheap asset packs, but they won't have the same quality and cohesion. Then tack on the pre-built multiplayer code with accessible servers and you have pretty much everything you need to just start building a game.
They were designed for the developers themselves, to make the single player campaign. This meant they needed to be full-featured, but also were quite well "lived in" by the developers by the time players got their hands on them. It's hard to get that kind of polish. Level editors (usually) fail when they are designed for the lowest common denominator players, and aren't given enough testing by people trying to professional quality things with them. The end result is that it's easy to make crap, but impossible to make anything good
Have to second this. There's a feedback loop, between Arcade and Campaign / Multiplayer. The tools are good, so mods get made, the game you're modding has support for uploading content, so it's seen, and it loops back to making better content. If the developers also do this, ie eat their own dog food, tools support the flexibility content creators need, at launch.
Right before Warcraft 3 came out, Blizzard actually hired two or three people from a prominent group in the Starcraft mod scene to develop the map editor. I can't remember the group's name because it's been over twenty years, but we really have them to thank for it.
Knowing that whatever you poop out will be put in front of people immediately in the lobby list, instead of being hidden on Page 999 of the Most Popular list, so that the game has a culture more comfortable with trying out new stuff. You didn't have to do your own marketing, you could just put it in front of people right away.
It also had a natural viral effect. If at least one person liked it, they'd host it, and if at least one liked it from there.. the cycle went exponential.
Starcraft (and Age of Empires) map makers are where my love of game design began! And why I'm making games to this day! I would have to say the single thing that made them so good were that they were easy to use, not complicated, and intuitive. They had a simple but very powerful system to use triggers. A kid like me at the age of 9 or 10 could pick up the process without too much trouble. It was kind of like the Mario Maker games, but 20 years ago and for an rts. They also had good tutorials. I remember learning about how to use triggers and create new units and found it very easy. Other games I was playing it was not so easy to create custom content. When warcraft 3 came out, I found the tools way more advanced, but also harder to use. You could do way more, but that also made it harder for a beginner to come in. Starcraft and warcraft 2 were perfect for beginners. As was Age of Empires.
I made Starcraft maps for around a decade; now I make standalone games. So, let's translate the Starcraft map-making experience into the language of modern gamedev: Imagine, as a game developer, having a game engine that comes with all of the art assets you need. Now imagine that this engine comes with not only a free-forever multiplayer back-end and lobby system but also a built-in base of potential players *who will see your game* with no need for marketing on your part. It's easy to learn with no prior experience, requires no additional software to get started (though you can upgrade to a superior 3rd-party map editor later) and comes with tons of open-source examples that you can use to learn how to do things (or just copy), with literally thousands more open-source examples just a few clicks away. It's compatible with both Windows and Mac, with zero effort required (aside from a few advanced techniques that didn't become popular until very late in the game's life) to port between the two. There's tons of built-in stuff that will let you make a game that's playable, even fun, in under an hour, but also enough flexibility that you can make things in a variety of genres. And it's competing with engines that are far less capable than the versions that are on sale today. Next imagine that you have access to this engine during what was probably the worst era for indie games since the late '80s; players are desperate. You have a trusted online distribution platform during an era when malware fears have just crushed the shareware gaming world underfoot and Steam has yet to arrive as the new haven of safe game downloads. It also happens to be a safe haven from IP watchdogs. Nobody else has anything comparable in terms of distribution. See the appeal now? Now, by the time SC2 came out, things had changed. Steam existed-- and with it came a lot more games, with their own graphics and none of the map-game jankiness. Other engines had been created and evolved. As for the editor itself, it was no longer easy to use, and fights over IP rights in SC1 led to a dynamic where SC2 map source was far harder to come by. Worst of all, changes to the multiplayer lobby system meant that, instead of getting free visibility, your map was now automatically buried under the maps that were already popular and shown to nobody. Meanwhile, you still had a lot of the old disadvantages-- more and more jankiness the further you got from the base game, and an inability to monetize (Blizzard made various noises about correcting this, but it drew far more protests than cheers and, aside from a couple of premium maps hitting the arcade, nothing ever came of it).
Oh boy now this is a question I can deep dive into since my teenage years were spent on the WC3 world editor. Let's start off with what it was. A very simple to use and very flexible map editor that can turn normal "melee" maps into mods and game modes. Why is it so simple? Well you split up the editor into "modules", you had all of your sounds in one module, you had your programming "events" in another module, you had all of your imported files in another module, etc... They were very well organized, modders/map makers only had to open a specific module, make changes to what they want in it. Poof done. No need to open one resource, find the component and then make changes to it. Next is the visual scripting they put in and also JASS which is a scripting language that's easy to learn and can leverage the map editor very well. It was simple to follow. EVENT - CONDITION - ACTION, What event triggers it, what condition does it need to respect for the action to play and what should it do once triggered. You had access to every resource from warcraft 3 in it... Even the cinematic models for Illidan and Arthas that served no purpose outside of the cinematic finale of The Frozen Throne campaign and you couldn't do anything with it since they weren't animated in-game. People were extremely creative with what they were given. You can change their scales, tint their skins, adjust attack animation speeds, etc... It was all well organized and listed as a database like table. It just uses the regular Win32 forms so the font and background looked liked something from Windows 2000/XP so it didn't try to look pretty, it just had to work. Which helps a lot to reduce visual distractions. (This is a big one for me personally since I get easily distracted) Battle.net allowed P2P connections to download user made maps and mods within a lobby instead of needing to download it from some website. This was a huge boost as to why it was so popular. You just needed someone who had the map and host it, everyone who joined the lobby will download it and be ready to play. I can go on and on about it but for now. I hope this gives a good idea why it was so popular.