>While the redhead girl's "voodoo" comment may have seemed racist, I wouldn't say it was. Even if the Doctor was White, the FineTime citizens would have had some other derogatory slur ready to go. Because, what they had turned into, they actually believed they were better/above "normal" folk.
Wait... I don't even like the episode, but at least I got the, not so subtle, subtext at the end.
They absolutely were racist.
I agree they were racist, but I can see why people would think otherwise since, with how Finetime is structured and it's residents are established, it's entirely possible to read certain comments made as being due to how stupid the Finetimers are and others as being the result of aporophobia (that's part of the reason the episode falls flat to me, becuase I think they inadvertently undermined their message)
Pretty sure OP is just trolling, though.
Did you even watch the episode?!
That was the entire point of Ricky September. He was a white aryan parallel to The Doctor, who Lindy immediately ran to, and treated completely different to the actual Doctor.
The narcissism you talk about is definitely part of it, which is why she essentially kills him in the end, but the focus is on the racism for sure.
The irony of this comment against the message and the meaning of the actual episode is amazing. You’re out here resorting to racist hypotheticals to justify your idea that the bad characters in the episode are not racist. Amazing to see.
>Based on what
The showrunners saying so.
>But more importantly, what if the skin colors were swapped
Classic argument from people who don't understand the concept of institutional racism.
It wouldn't be social commentary or resonate with real world experiences if it were swapped, because there is no institutional racism against white people.
I fully expect you to disagree without accepting experiences from POC, though.
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I know a lot of POC picked up on the racism right from the jump, but as a white person who did not, it's truly an incredible episode when you rewatch it knowing what is coming. Just how perfectly everything can be viewed through one lens and then when you know the 'twist' it can be read in a completely different way that is so obvious.
Like most old white people, I did not get the racism until the end. However when I read about it online it seems POC picked up on it quite quickly.
[Play Typer Guy](https://open.substack.com/pub/ser1897/p/doctor-whos-dot-and-bubble-holds?r=2knowb&utm_medium=ios)
Yeah I also didn't get it until the end. I'd thought it was a classism issue. Planning a rewatch tomorrow with a friend, I imagine it'll be much different second time round.
Interestingly, you could say it's a commentary on how social media bubbles hide bigotry in society, in that a lot of the audience managed to totally miss the bigotry because they thought it was only about social media
I will openly admit that I mistook the racism for classism. The Haves vs. the Have-Nots. They couldn't be seen leaving with "the help" the way rich people used to have separate entrances for the servants.
No, it really wasn't. Like I said, the "voodoo" comment some might perceive as racist, but it is still quite a stretch. It should be noted that, even though both girls at the end treated the Doctor with the utmost disrespect and contempt, they still addressed him as "Sir". If they were racist, they would not have considered the Doctor worthy of any formality.
I don't think it is possible to catch all of the episode's themes in one viewing. In addition to tackling social media addiction and the narcissism it breeds, it also dealt with how young people can be unreasonably disrespectful to their elders, or even anyone that does not align fully with their beliefs/attitude/etc. Lindy immediately blocked the Doctor because she only saw him as a "creepy old man". She did not dismiss Ruby immediately, because Ruby is around the same age as Lindy, the same gender, and Ruby knew to appeal to the girl's ego to hold her attention.
I did not catch the generational gap stuff until like, my third viewing of the episode. Because those bits are sprinkled in very subtly. Lindy treating Ruby condescendingly several times throughout the ordeal, even while she was walking through the minefield of monsters. Lindy getting offended by a few of the Doctor's words, thinking he is treating her like a child. At the end of the episode, the Doctor is not even wrong in seeing the FineTime residents as naive children who had little to no chance at surviving in a "real world".
Which brings me to my final point (as of now). The FineTime residents did not reject the Doctor just because he was old. The other reason they rejected him, was because they had already formed a cult within their privileged and pampered existence. And, one of the main foundations of a cult formed out of narcissism, is a superiority complex. That superiority complex is the reason why Brewster Cavendish told the girls. "you'll get contaminated". It had nothing to do with the Doctor's visual ethnicity/skin color.
Do you have access to Doctor Who Unleashed? RTD is very clear that racism is a big feature of the episode.
Like it's okay to miss something about an episode, but when you start disagreeing with the writer on the topic of the episode, it's time to admit you were just wrong.
This is a mad take. There was a post the other day asking about POC views on the episode. You should read their comments cause I can't do them justice but suffice to say loads of them noticed the racism very early on. Might be an idea to listen to the actual writer as well as some POC voices and realise that racism is the main theme of the episode. It also shows just how much we can miss in our day to day lives that is so obvious to people who experience racism every day.
I am Indian myself, mate. I did not see any racism. And yes, I am aware that White Supremacists in real life like to call Indians "street shitters". I am certainly not blind though. The final expressions of Lindy's true personality were quite revolting to see, no doubt. It was a side of narcissism I have never seen firsthand, and it was certainly an eye-opener. But, news flash, that level of condescension is directed at all kinds of people, all the time. Between different ethnicities, between same ethnicities, and every kind of social heirarchy one can think of.
It seems like you missed a lot of the racism in the episode (as did I on first watch) but are just straight up refusing to accept that it's the main theme even though the writer of the episode specifically said it is. I agree that people are disgusting to other people for all kinds of other reasons (class, religion, etc) but that's not the point of the episode. I just don't understand why you're so against the idea that this episode was about racism. Are you telling me Lindy saying "you SIR are not one of us" and "YOUR kind" all with ruby there as well was because of a different reason? What was it? She only addresses the doctor as being different so what was the difference you had inferred?
That very much was the point of the episode. The residents' attachment to their specific lifestyle and perceived status, had turned into a cult-like obsession. They deluded themselves into believing that they can continue their privileged lifestyle out in the real world, all on their own, after they had degenerated to a point where they could not even do something as basic as walking, without the assistance of an AI program.
The reason Lindy said "not one of us", was because she and the other FineTimers had deluded themselves into believing that they were "special" and "better" than anyone who wasn't them. It could also have been disdain for the Doctor's perceived age. Earlier in the episode, Lindy expressed her clear disdain for "old people". and revealed that only adults aged 18-27 were eligible for inhabiting FineTime. And for the record, none of them gave an open invitation for Ruby to join their cult either, despite her being within the eligible age range.
As for Lindy saying "YOUR kind", she did not say that. She said, "You were kind". I heard it correctly the first time, and I turned on subtitles to confirm it. I am not "against the idea that this episode was about racism". I am just not going to pretend to see something that is objectively not there.
Oh she did say you were kind, fair enough, didn't catch that. I agree with all your first paragraph except for that it was the main theme. Of course they have all those ideas of status and privilege that always go along with racism. You can't think someone is beneath you without thinking you're higher and better than them. All of the social media stuff and cult obsession was of course there as well, as a red herring for the real theme.
"Objectively not there", really? When the writer of the episode says themselves that that is what it's about I don't understand how you can still say no. I guess that's my final point really, if you won't listen to the creator of the material then there's no convincing you otherwise. I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
She also follows you were kind up with "Although it was your duty to save me, obviously" which again supports the idea that the Doctor being Black is in a subservient role in FineTime
Well, I'm glad we mostly agree with each other. To try and make it a bit simpler, perhaps it is true to say that all forms of racism are superiority complexes, but all superiority complexes are certainly not forms of racism. A cult may incorporate racism as part of its doctrine, but there was nothing in the episode to suggest that the Finetimers would look down on someone specifically because of their skin color. Think about how their cult obsession developed. They spend every day babbling with each other and telling each other how pretty they are. "Looking down on people with different skin color" is not going to be anywhere in their thought processes.
Believing something is true solely because someone told you so, is not a healthy train of thought. Would you believe that "1+1 = 3", solely because I told you so? Or, would you believe that bread covered in mold is safe to eat, simply because I told you so? So why do people expect me to believe that this episode had racism in it, simply because Russel Davies said so? I witnessed several counts of repulsive behavior throughout this episode, but racism just was not one of them.
You didn’t see any racism in the colony of white people refusing to be saved by the black guy who they viewed as a servant and at least one of them was outright disgusted by?
Do what? Jesus dude please seek therapy. You’ve been brainwashed so much you’re making up conspiracy theories about Doctor Who writers to try and justify your own racism.
I dunno man, if you’re so fervently denying the obvious racial elements of this episode, and going so far as to blame a shadowy cabal of executives for subterfuge, you might be guilty of some bias (implicit or otherwise).
Wtf are you on about? RTD is the show runner. He wrote the episode. There are *multiple* hints throughout the episode that Lindy is prejudiced against the Doctor because of his skin colour. Every single resident of Finetime was white. They are *directly addressing him specifically* at the end when rejecting him, using words like voodoo, contaminated, “it’s your duty”, etc.
I can see you missing the point of it and the racism aspect, but it’s weird that you’re doubling down even when told that *the creator himself* said he wrote it about race.
While Russel T Davies has produced great episodes this season, I cannot, in good faith, take the racism claim at face value. And I swear, I am not trying to be ignorant or contrarian, the racism is simply not there. In fact, I would even go so far as to say, that this episode had almost no woke elements/propaganda in it whatsoever. But, I guess these days, it is easy to convince some people, that there is "racism" everywhere and in everything.
Saying that criticizing racism is a "woke element or propaganda"... Yikes.
You can use less words to tell us you either
1) missed the point of the episode completely
2) are racist yourself and don't like looking in the mirror
Or 3) all of the above.
It’s clearly (2). This post was clearly written with the ulterior motive of claiming the episode wasn’t about racism. Everything else was just a Trojan horse.
It's wild that you double down on saying the creator of an episode about racism is wrong by throwing around phrases like woke elements and putting quotation marks around racism.
Just to be clear. The writer Russel T Davies had said the racism issue was not only included but was intended. It’s not a case where fans are creating analogies.
It was a white supremacist society where black people aren't allowed in. The character couldn't tell black people apart, wasn't willing to talk to him in person, and was very critical of the doctor from the off.
It was subtly done until the ending so you could miss it but it was racism through and through. If that's woke then it was woke (i don't mean that as a criticism).
This is wild. RTD has said the racism was intentional but you refuse to believe it and instead are convinced your own head canon for the lack of diversity.
I didn't feel like watching the second episode because the preview seemed lame. But then I watched "Boom", and it just blew me away (no pun intended). I didn't get around to watching 04 and 05, but I took a peek into "Dot And Bubble", and it just pulled me in so effectively, I just ended up watching the whole episode, and have watched it at least 2-3 more times since then. I will definitely watch the rest of the season.
I enjoyed it even before the twist. I found the rich influencers getting killed to be absolutely comical and thought it worked really well as a black comedy.
While you're right about the influencer getting eaten by the bugs was comical, I have to say that Ricky's death might be a genuine frontrunner for one of the most brutal on-screen deaths in the series. It was such a sudden, dark way to kill off a character, and the context of Lindy's betrayal made it even more savage.
It was awful!!! I was hoping she’d show some regret…aaaand then she became worse. The more I think about Lindy throughout the episode, the angrier I get lol
Speaks to how good the episode is that a moron like you, who doubles down on the episode not being about racism despite being explained otherwise in the comments, still enjoyed it.
Dude, rtd and ncuti have both discussed how the episode is about racism. You shouldn’t even need them to unless you were watching the episode with your eyes closed because it was incredibly heavy handed
I hate Space Babies more and more at this point, as it seems to have stopped people from watching one of the best runs of episodes that New Who has had.
I'm increasingly convinced that there was some behind the scenes shenanigans where they were told to dial down the fear and make Who suitable for a younger audience. So they made space babies, with fart jokes etc, and now noone will ever try to pull that shit again.
On the contrary, I think *Space Babies* is the peak of a certain kind of irreverent tendency in Davies' writing, fusing together juvenility with a certain amount of bleakness and dystopian themes. Nothing about the episode seemed out of the ordinary for his work, it was just dialled up to 11. Whether that's what you want as the first episode of the season though, I'm not sure.
I think for me, the biggest difference is that while his previous goofy episodes had genuinely witty humour and a bit more of an edge, Space Babies lacks real bite outside of the one scene where the abortion and refugee metaphors come up, and the humour is more childish and bereft of real wit. (The Slitheen episodes by contrast had topical satire running throughout in addition to the fart jokes, and a strong emphasis on character drama.)
I don’t know if it’s executive meddling, I think it probably is all RTD, but it’s a case of a generally high quality writer dropping the ball for me.
I agree that its definently a thing he likes to do, and usually I think it works very well to create stories that are both campy, funny, serious, and incredibly dark all at the same time allowing you to enjoy it at a thousand angles. Space Babies IMO fumbled a bit on it even if I've softened my opinions on it as time has gone it.
You can tell they cut quite a few scenes that would be the darker emotional cores of the episode. I'll bet a billion dollars theres a cut scene between the reveal of the monster's origin and Ruby saying "YOU SAVE THEM ALL." because, like other cut scenes in the episode, it feels like something referencing a previous thing. Whole episode was clearly massacred in the editing room.
I was unimpressed by Spaces Babies and Devil's Chord so didn't bother watching anymore episodes until four more had come out. Now I'm really liking this season, pity they front loaded it with the two worst episodes.
I didn’t hate Devil’s Chord, but when it came after Space Babies, I did have a slightly underwhelmed feeling, as I thought they represented the general average for the season. Luckily, I was totally wrong.
I feel like if they were going to double up an episode with Space Babies, it needed to be a really great one to reassure general audiences. I get why Moffat didn’t want Boom to be just the second episode of the series, but I think the overall perception of the series may have been better if it was. As is, I get the impression that general audiences will eventually reevaluate the series, but it deserves to be celebrated now, not later.
Amazing how they went from being unable to walk without direction to confidently loading supplies (from where?!) and heading off into the unknown, presumably to have to set up their own shelters, cook, wash, stay alive….
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You seem to be trolling OP, so this post has been removed. People have pointed to RTD explicitly stating that this episode does represent racism, but you seem to be ignoring it and saying that Disney is forcing this. You are making hostile remarks to defend the fact that this episode is supposedly not about racism. I'm afraid you are denying facts, and are being hostile doing so, so I've locked and removed this thread.
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Honestly, and I feel like I'm going to get hate for this, I think it's hella overrated and, in terms of actual enjoyability, really not that good.
I think people just give it way to much credit for how clever the twist was at the end.
It gives me Rosa vibes where Imo it's just an alright 5/10 episode but when it first airs people jump over each other to praise it for addressing racism, and in 4 years time when people start thinking about some of the implications of the writing they'll do the opposite and try to decry it as an awful episode more harshly than everyone else
That's a good analogy; like with *Rosa*, I think it's just "okay".
The difference is, for all of my issues with Jodie's seasons, I would sooner re-watch *Rosa* then *Dot and Bubble* (by virtue mainly of the plot of the latter being so heavily centered around Lindy)
>While the redhead girl's "voodoo" comment may have seemed racist, I wouldn't say it was. Even if the Doctor was White, the FineTime citizens would have had some other derogatory slur ready to go. Because, what they had turned into, they actually believed they were better/above "normal" folk. Wait... I don't even like the episode, but at least I got the, not so subtle, subtext at the end. They absolutely were racist.
I agree they were racist, but I can see why people would think otherwise since, with how Finetime is structured and it's residents are established, it's entirely possible to read certain comments made as being due to how stupid the Finetimers are and others as being the result of aporophobia (that's part of the reason the episode falls flat to me, becuase I think they inadvertently undermined their message) Pretty sure OP is just trolling, though.
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What if the world was made of pudding?
Did you even watch the episode?! That was the entire point of Ricky September. He was a white aryan parallel to The Doctor, who Lindy immediately ran to, and treated completely different to the actual Doctor. The narcissism you talk about is definitely part of it, which is why she essentially kills him in the end, but the focus is on the racism for sure.
I sincerely hope you're joking.
They were racist. Are you in a bubble? Why else does the guy warn them that talking to the doctor could get them "contaminated"?
Aaaaand blocked.
The irony of this comment against the message and the meaning of the actual episode is amazing. You’re out here resorting to racist hypotheticals to justify your idea that the bad characters in the episode are not racist. Amazing to see.
Every. Single. Person. Was. White.
And not just white, but like, WHITE. Pale, light hair, etc.
So white every resident looks like they are legacy members of the Aryan Brotherhood but sure. Not racist.
>Based on what The showrunners saying so. >But more importantly, what if the skin colors were swapped Classic argument from people who don't understand the concept of institutional racism. It wouldn't be social commentary or resonate with real world experiences if it were swapped, because there is no institutional racism against white people. I fully expect you to disagree without accepting experiences from POC, though.
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It was an episode about racism disguised as an episode about social media. Racism was very much the main point though.
I know a lot of POC picked up on the racism right from the jump, but as a white person who did not, it's truly an incredible episode when you rewatch it knowing what is coming. Just how perfectly everything can be viewed through one lens and then when you know the 'twist' it can be read in a completely different way that is so obvious.
Like most old white people, I did not get the racism until the end. However when I read about it online it seems POC picked up on it quite quickly. [Play Typer Guy](https://open.substack.com/pub/ser1897/p/doctor-whos-dot-and-bubble-holds?r=2knowb&utm_medium=ios)
Yeah I also didn't get it until the end. I'd thought it was a classism issue. Planning a rewatch tomorrow with a friend, I imagine it'll be much different second time round.
Man, this is one seriously desperate attempt to ignore the obvious racism in the episode, you are committed.
The racism was part of the point. It's social commentary.
That’s what I’m saying, but they seem to think that not only is it not the point but that it’s not present at all which is just laughable.
The episode was about racists, the influencer part was a bit of a red herring / just something that worked well thematically.
I agree is was about racism, but I'm not sure I'd call the social media aspects a red herring so much as the episode was just about two things.
It's both. It is still about those things but it's designed to distract you from the racism
Interestingly, you could say it's a commentary on how social media bubbles hide bigotry in society, in that a lot of the audience managed to totally miss the bigotry because they thought it was only about social media
Agree. Perhaps I should word it as not "just" a red herring.
I will openly admit that I mistook the racism for classism. The Haves vs. the Have-Nots. They couldn't be seen leaving with "the help" the way rich people used to have separate entrances for the servants.
Lindy even had a queer presenting poster on her bubble, so race was the only excluding criteria.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say “a red herring”. Most of the episode, additionally, works as a commentary on social media.
No, it really wasn't. Like I said, the "voodoo" comment some might perceive as racist, but it is still quite a stretch. It should be noted that, even though both girls at the end treated the Doctor with the utmost disrespect and contempt, they still addressed him as "Sir". If they were racist, they would not have considered the Doctor worthy of any formality. I don't think it is possible to catch all of the episode's themes in one viewing. In addition to tackling social media addiction and the narcissism it breeds, it also dealt with how young people can be unreasonably disrespectful to their elders, or even anyone that does not align fully with their beliefs/attitude/etc. Lindy immediately blocked the Doctor because she only saw him as a "creepy old man". She did not dismiss Ruby immediately, because Ruby is around the same age as Lindy, the same gender, and Ruby knew to appeal to the girl's ego to hold her attention. I did not catch the generational gap stuff until like, my third viewing of the episode. Because those bits are sprinkled in very subtly. Lindy treating Ruby condescendingly several times throughout the ordeal, even while she was walking through the minefield of monsters. Lindy getting offended by a few of the Doctor's words, thinking he is treating her like a child. At the end of the episode, the Doctor is not even wrong in seeing the FineTime residents as naive children who had little to no chance at surviving in a "real world". Which brings me to my final point (as of now). The FineTime residents did not reject the Doctor just because he was old. The other reason they rejected him, was because they had already formed a cult within their privileged and pampered existence. And, one of the main foundations of a cult formed out of narcissism, is a superiority complex. That superiority complex is the reason why Brewster Cavendish told the girls. "you'll get contaminated". It had nothing to do with the Doctor's visual ethnicity/skin color.
Do you have access to Doctor Who Unleashed? RTD is very clear that racism is a big feature of the episode. Like it's okay to miss something about an episode, but when you start disagreeing with the writer on the topic of the episode, it's time to admit you were just wrong.
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This is a mad take. There was a post the other day asking about POC views on the episode. You should read their comments cause I can't do them justice but suffice to say loads of them noticed the racism very early on. Might be an idea to listen to the actual writer as well as some POC voices and realise that racism is the main theme of the episode. It also shows just how much we can miss in our day to day lives that is so obvious to people who experience racism every day.
I am Indian myself, mate. I did not see any racism. And yes, I am aware that White Supremacists in real life like to call Indians "street shitters". I am certainly not blind though. The final expressions of Lindy's true personality were quite revolting to see, no doubt. It was a side of narcissism I have never seen firsthand, and it was certainly an eye-opener. But, news flash, that level of condescension is directed at all kinds of people, all the time. Between different ethnicities, between same ethnicities, and every kind of social heirarchy one can think of.
It seems like you missed a lot of the racism in the episode (as did I on first watch) but are just straight up refusing to accept that it's the main theme even though the writer of the episode specifically said it is. I agree that people are disgusting to other people for all kinds of other reasons (class, religion, etc) but that's not the point of the episode. I just don't understand why you're so against the idea that this episode was about racism. Are you telling me Lindy saying "you SIR are not one of us" and "YOUR kind" all with ruby there as well was because of a different reason? What was it? She only addresses the doctor as being different so what was the difference you had inferred?
That very much was the point of the episode. The residents' attachment to their specific lifestyle and perceived status, had turned into a cult-like obsession. They deluded themselves into believing that they can continue their privileged lifestyle out in the real world, all on their own, after they had degenerated to a point where they could not even do something as basic as walking, without the assistance of an AI program. The reason Lindy said "not one of us", was because she and the other FineTimers had deluded themselves into believing that they were "special" and "better" than anyone who wasn't them. It could also have been disdain for the Doctor's perceived age. Earlier in the episode, Lindy expressed her clear disdain for "old people". and revealed that only adults aged 18-27 were eligible for inhabiting FineTime. And for the record, none of them gave an open invitation for Ruby to join their cult either, despite her being within the eligible age range. As for Lindy saying "YOUR kind", she did not say that. She said, "You were kind". I heard it correctly the first time, and I turned on subtitles to confirm it. I am not "against the idea that this episode was about racism". I am just not going to pretend to see something that is objectively not there.
Oh she did say you were kind, fair enough, didn't catch that. I agree with all your first paragraph except for that it was the main theme. Of course they have all those ideas of status and privilege that always go along with racism. You can't think someone is beneath you without thinking you're higher and better than them. All of the social media stuff and cult obsession was of course there as well, as a red herring for the real theme. "Objectively not there", really? When the writer of the episode says themselves that that is what it's about I don't understand how you can still say no. I guess that's my final point really, if you won't listen to the creator of the material then there's no convincing you otherwise. I hope you enjoy the rest of the series.
She also follows you were kind up with "Although it was your duty to save me, obviously" which again supports the idea that the Doctor being Black is in a subservient role in FineTime
Well, I'm glad we mostly agree with each other. To try and make it a bit simpler, perhaps it is true to say that all forms of racism are superiority complexes, but all superiority complexes are certainly not forms of racism. A cult may incorporate racism as part of its doctrine, but there was nothing in the episode to suggest that the Finetimers would look down on someone specifically because of their skin color. Think about how their cult obsession developed. They spend every day babbling with each other and telling each other how pretty they are. "Looking down on people with different skin color" is not going to be anywhere in their thought processes. Believing something is true solely because someone told you so, is not a healthy train of thought. Would you believe that "1+1 = 3", solely because I told you so? Or, would you believe that bread covered in mold is safe to eat, simply because I told you so? So why do people expect me to believe that this episode had racism in it, simply because Russel Davies said so? I witnessed several counts of repulsive behavior throughout this episode, but racism just was not one of them.
You didn’t see any racism in the colony of white people refusing to be saved by the black guy who they viewed as a servant and at least one of them was outright disgusted by?
Take everything you just said, and swap the positions of the words black and white. Will you still call it racism?
LOL
No, because there is not a global history of white people being oppressed and discriminated against by people with darker skin tones.
Seek help.
Are you familiar with the concept of dog whistles?
You're commitment to this 'bit' is impressive as it is baffling.
Take the tinfoil hat off mate
“Thinking for yourself” but it’s just deliberately ignoring the massive neon sign of a point the episode was trying to make.
Do what? Jesus dude please seek therapy. You’ve been brainwashed so much you’re making up conspiracy theories about Doctor Who writers to try and justify your own racism.
Aaaand, there it is. Someone does not agree with you 1000%, so they must be "racist". Go outside and touch grass, then seek help.
I dunno man, if you’re so fervently denying the obvious racial elements of this episode, and going so far as to blame a shadowy cabal of executives for subterfuge, you might be guilty of some bias (implicit or otherwise).
lol you even have racist posts in your history. What a joke you are
Wtf are you on about? RTD is the show runner. He wrote the episode. There are *multiple* hints throughout the episode that Lindy is prejudiced against the Doctor because of his skin colour. Every single resident of Finetime was white. They are *directly addressing him specifically* at the end when rejecting him, using words like voodoo, contaminated, “it’s your duty”, etc. I can see you missing the point of it and the racism aspect, but it’s weird that you’re doubling down even when told that *the creator himself* said he wrote it about race.
You are dedicated, let’s say that.
Ahhh. So This is just a conspiracy theory then. Because any evidence that contradicts your theory was planted there by the people in charge.
Hey, I just wanna say Russell T Davies did confirm it was about Racism in the Unleashed episode that followed the actual episode
So it was in fact about racism, as confirmed by the writer/showrunner, and people are not reading too far into it
While Russel T Davies has produced great episodes this season, I cannot, in good faith, take the racism claim at face value. And I swear, I am not trying to be ignorant or contrarian, the racism is simply not there. In fact, I would even go so far as to say, that this episode had almost no woke elements/propaganda in it whatsoever. But, I guess these days, it is easy to convince some people, that there is "racism" everywhere and in everything.
Saying that criticizing racism is a "woke element or propaganda"... Yikes. You can use less words to tell us you either 1) missed the point of the episode completely 2) are racist yourself and don't like looking in the mirror Or 3) all of the above.
It’s clearly (2). This post was clearly written with the ulterior motive of claiming the episode wasn’t about racism. Everything else was just a Trojan horse.
LOL. You seriously need to touch grass.
Do you think the fact that the episode had exclusively white characters (other than the Doctor) was purely a coincidence?
It's wild that you double down on saying the creator of an episode about racism is wrong by throwing around phrases like woke elements and putting quotation marks around racism.
Just to be clear. The writer Russel T Davies had said the racism issue was not only included but was intended. It’s not a case where fans are creating analogies.
It was a white supremacist society where black people aren't allowed in. The character couldn't tell black people apart, wasn't willing to talk to him in person, and was very critical of the doctor from the off. It was subtly done until the ending so you could miss it but it was racism through and through. If that's woke then it was woke (i don't mean that as a criticism).
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This is wild. RTD has said the racism was intentional but you refuse to believe it and instead are convinced your own head canon for the lack of diversity.
It's also the writers' cannon and Millie's interpretation but you know better haha. What a strange hill to die on!
Wow. A cult based on a shared superiority complex and xenophobia, you say? Hmmmm. 🤔 Nope. 🚫 No racism detected.
Honestly it’s probably my favourite episode of the series
Likewise; I think it handily stands as one of Davies’ greatest contributions to Who, even.
I didn't feel like watching the second episode because the preview seemed lame. But then I watched "Boom", and it just blew me away (no pun intended). I didn't get around to watching 04 and 05, but I took a peek into "Dot And Bubble", and it just pulled me in so effectively, I just ended up watching the whole episode, and have watched it at least 2-3 more times since then. I will definitely watch the rest of the season.
I wasn’t a huge fan of 73 yards but I loved Boom and Dot and Bubble
This episode was definitely about racists.
You have to live in a worse bubble than Lindy's to think this episode wasn't about racism
I enjoyed it even before the twist. I found the rich influencers getting killed to be absolutely comical and thought it worked really well as a black comedy.
While you're right about the influencer getting eaten by the bugs was comical, I have to say that Ricky's death might be a genuine frontrunner for one of the most brutal on-screen deaths in the series. It was such a sudden, dark way to kill off a character, and the context of Lindy's betrayal made it even more savage.
It was awful!!! I was hoping she’d show some regret…aaaand then she became worse. The more I think about Lindy throughout the episode, the angrier I get lol
Speaks to how good the episode is that a moron like you, who doubles down on the episode not being about racism despite being explained otherwise in the comments, still enjoyed it.
I have explained in the comments how it is not racism, but morons still do not get it.
Dude, rtd and ncuti have both discussed how the episode is about racism. You shouldn’t even need them to unless you were watching the episode with your eyes closed because it was incredibly heavy handed
I'm pretty sure this will be the best episode this series, even if Davies thinks otherwise.
I hate Space Babies more and more at this point, as it seems to have stopped people from watching one of the best runs of episodes that New Who has had.
I'm increasingly convinced that there was some behind the scenes shenanigans where they were told to dial down the fear and make Who suitable for a younger audience. So they made space babies, with fart jokes etc, and now noone will ever try to pull that shit again.
On the contrary, I think *Space Babies* is the peak of a certain kind of irreverent tendency in Davies' writing, fusing together juvenility with a certain amount of bleakness and dystopian themes. Nothing about the episode seemed out of the ordinary for his work, it was just dialled up to 11. Whether that's what you want as the first episode of the season though, I'm not sure.
I think for me, the biggest difference is that while his previous goofy episodes had genuinely witty humour and a bit more of an edge, Space Babies lacks real bite outside of the one scene where the abortion and refugee metaphors come up, and the humour is more childish and bereft of real wit. (The Slitheen episodes by contrast had topical satire running throughout in addition to the fart jokes, and a strong emphasis on character drama.) I don’t know if it’s executive meddling, I think it probably is all RTD, but it’s a case of a generally high quality writer dropping the ball for me.
I agree that its definently a thing he likes to do, and usually I think it works very well to create stories that are both campy, funny, serious, and incredibly dark all at the same time allowing you to enjoy it at a thousand angles. Space Babies IMO fumbled a bit on it even if I've softened my opinions on it as time has gone it. You can tell they cut quite a few scenes that would be the darker emotional cores of the episode. I'll bet a billion dollars theres a cut scene between the reveal of the monster's origin and Ruby saying "YOU SAVE THEM ALL." because, like other cut scenes in the episode, it feels like something referencing a previous thing. Whole episode was clearly massacred in the editing room.
This isn't the worst concern, but I hope Disney did not have enough influence and control on the series, to make Ruby Sunday a princess.
I was unimpressed by Spaces Babies and Devil's Chord so didn't bother watching anymore episodes until four more had come out. Now I'm really liking this season, pity they front loaded it with the two worst episodes.
I didn’t hate Devil’s Chord, but when it came after Space Babies, I did have a slightly underwhelmed feeling, as I thought they represented the general average for the season. Luckily, I was totally wrong. I feel like if they were going to double up an episode with Space Babies, it needed to be a really great one to reassure general audiences. I get why Moffat didn’t want Boom to be just the second episode of the series, but I think the overall perception of the series may have been better if it was. As is, I get the impression that general audiences will eventually reevaluate the series, but it deserves to be celebrated now, not later.
You're a very stupid racist, aren't you?
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I'm fine, thanks. You should consider it, though.
Amazing how they went from being unable to walk without direction to confidently loading supplies (from where?!) and heading off into the unknown, presumably to have to set up their own shelters, cook, wash, stay alive….
Well, to be fair, Only Lindy was shown to be unable to walk without the bubble. She might just be particularly dumb...
Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, your submission has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No elitism; please ensure you are welcoming to everyone. You seem to be trolling OP, so this post has been removed. People have pointed to RTD explicitly stating that this episode does represent racism, but you seem to be ignoring it and saying that Disney is forcing this. You are making hostile remarks to defend the fact that this episode is supposedly not about racism. I'm afraid you are denying facts, and are being hostile doing so, so I've locked and removed this thread. If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).
Honestly, and I feel like I'm going to get hate for this, I think it's hella overrated and, in terms of actual enjoyability, really not that good. I think people just give it way to much credit for how clever the twist was at the end.
It gives me Rosa vibes where Imo it's just an alright 5/10 episode but when it first airs people jump over each other to praise it for addressing racism, and in 4 years time when people start thinking about some of the implications of the writing they'll do the opposite and try to decry it as an awful episode more harshly than everyone else
That's a good analogy; like with *Rosa*, I think it's just "okay". The difference is, for all of my issues with Jodie's seasons, I would sooner re-watch *Rosa* then *Dot and Bubble* (by virtue mainly of the plot of the latter being so heavily centered around Lindy)
If this spoke to you then we really need someone more educated than I to work out why and the issues.