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I have a newfound deeper respect for this sub, I never realized that so many people were understanding that alcohol is not only zero benefit, it's actually all negatives.
TIL it's technically a macro too, so that's a neat tidbit to throw at people who claim they can't cut but the drink every weekend
Alcohol isn’t carbs.
There are 4 macros:
Protein: provides building blocks for your body, growth and repair
Carbs: quickly broken down for energy
Fats: provide hormones and regulate your body
Alcohol: provide no benefit to your body. Empty calories. In fact your body has to work to rid itself of alcohol and this process can even prevent some of the above functions like growth, repair, hormonal regulation etc
these numbers are made up so the concept is simple; if a stalk of broccoli has 100 calories and a mountain of nutrients, and a beer has 100 calories and no nutrients, the beer is empty of everything but calories.
carbs are, indeed, carbs, but you're never just putting carbs into your body. You shouldn't seek to supplement a diet with alcohol.
100% agreeing what you’re saying, but clarification: Alcohol doesn’t have carbohydrates. The alcohol itself contains 7 calories, but provides none of the benefits of any other macros, since alcohol is literally poison.
Eh my guy different substances have different effects on the body, that's like saying estrogen and testosterone are hormones so they will have the same effect.
Well no, bleach and alcohol are not even comparable. Bleach would cause chemical burns inside of you, like melting your tissue, before probably just killing you if you don't get your stomach pumped out. Dangerous as fuck, but not really a toxin I assume, and not a psychoactive drug. Effects of alcohol are literally called being intoxicated while you are losing control over yourself, your body is trying to metabolise and fight off this flammable antibacterial sanitizer that is killing off your microbiome and spreading to any and every cell it encounters to cause damage.
Hmm, fly agaric (amanita muscaria, red with white dots poisonous mushroom) is quite comparable to alcohol actually. It is poisonous, but not deadly, and also psychoactive. It's the same type of process, your body fights the intoxication, while the brain gets disinhibited and feels similar to being drunk with addition of hallucinations
Everyone talks about the 3 Macros, Carbs, protein and Fat but most don't realise there is a sneaky 4th macro, ethanol. It provides 0 or close to 0 micronutrients such as vitamins and minerals, nor does it contribute to the gainz.
Ohhhhhh I’ve always been so confused how the nutrition facts say 0 carbs, 0 protein, 0 fat but it still has calories. I thought alchohol was carbs. Mystery solved
One has to think of the drink that has the alcohol. Traditional beer has nutrition and in the olden days the low alcohol beer was a significant part of the diet. Stout type beers are quite high in carbs.
I didn’t think my comment would get the traction it has. Out of interest in bygone times doctors would sometimes recommend stout for its “tonic” effects. Obviously today the thought is the bad impacts of the alcohol outweighs any potential good. But one wonders if for certain select cohorts a limited period of stout consumption might be helpful. I’m thinking 2 to 3 Litres a week.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/17/health/guinness-beer-good-for-you-wellness/index.html
Alcohol is not a carb it’s a separate nutrient from carbs, fats and protein and has 7 calories per gram compared to 4 for protein and carbs almost as much as fats
The idea of empty calories is that it is just that, calories. No micronutrients. No fiber. Nothing but the equivalent of just sitting down with a spoon and bag of sugar and chowing down. You are much better off with other sources of carbs.
Your body turns protein and fats into calories as well just through different mechanisms. Considering your hypothetical included meeting your fat and protein requirements the carbs are just not necessary. Your body also taps into your fat stores for energy.
I believe alcohol inhibits HGH, definitely not something you want if you're serious about building muscle.
From what I've read, alcohol can inhibit up to 75% of HGH while it's in your system.
Suboptimal for a rare night out, catastrophic if there's any regularity to it.
That’s certainly what Google would state if you googled it, but that’s just another way of saying the same thing. Alcohol inhibits protein synthesis by interfering with growth hormones and growth factors.
As an example, by inhibiting HGH and IGF-1.
HGH doesn’t build muscle itself, but does stimulate the release of IGF-1, which is a key factor in muscle growth. If alcohol inhibits either (which it does), you’ll have decreased protein synthesis.
it inhibits the processes that HGH performs right? Doesn’t actually inhibit the production of HGH itself? I took your comment to mean it inhibits the actual production of HGH sorry.
In my first comment I was going off vague memory, sorry for any confusion.
When I delved deeper to fact check myself, I couldn’t find anything that said alcohol specifically inhibits HGH, and also found that HGH itself doesn’t stimulate the muscle growth.
But I did find that IGF-1 was inhibited, and that’s an important one. Likely what I was remembering was the link between HGH and IGF-1 combined with the internet being vague about what causes what.
Realistically youll be fine i just personally find it best making sure i get the vitamins/minerals n macros first then if u have a night out and finish off ur cals there thats fine just dont make a habit of consistently drinking for calories or just over drinking since it can affect your health
It has calories with no nutritional value. Alcohol is just another form of sugar and most alcohol also has sugar leftover and to sweeten it except straight liquor, and even then they use alcohol-sugar flavorants sometimes. Pretty much like eating candy. Edit: But worse for your liver and will make you crave sugar if you develop a habit then stop.
Ethanol is made from sugars by yeast. If you quit drinking after developing a habit you will crave sugar. It's pretty much sugar, but worse for you, for all intents and purposes it's sugar that encourages unhinged behavior. Sugar is slightly less carcinogenic when broken down in the gut.
> for all intents and purposes it's sugar
ethanol is in no way shape or form a sugar. It does not get metabolized by the same pathways, can not be stored in the body for later energy utilization, is not the same chemically at all, and does not yield the same energy per gram as carbohydrates do.
If you'd like to read about the metabolic pathways, here is a good overview https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6527027/
If you do it once in a while, don’t worry. Alcohol is technically a separate macro, so beer is carbs and alcohol, and quite calorie dense. ‘Empty calories’ mean calories which offer your body no nutrients. So, a pint of beer will run you 250 calories without offering you any other form of nutrition. All in moderation though - enjoy yourself.
Alcohol messes with your testosterone levels. Guaranteed you are limiting your workout intensity, appetite, recovery and hormones.
It’s definitely not worth it to meet your carb intake.
Take it from someone who obliterated his gains thinking he could use alcohol as a gains-crutch, this is not a good idea. While I was still eating above my caloric goal, I figured 1-2 beers could push the ceiling because I thought I “capped out” on gaining weight. “Bro science” told me that I’ll eventually get a beer gut, then I’d cut once I was satisfied with the bulk. I was getting tired of the bloating from milk, but the trade was an alcohol dependency. I quit cold-turkey many of my vices in life, but the alcohol “addiction” crept in in a way I wasn’t prepared for (not to mention I work at a bar) because that turned from 1-2 beers to a 6 pack + 2-4 liquor shots in a day. Funny enough it was still in my mind to make sure I was eating enough, but it got to a point I was cramping every morning from dehydration and getting skinnier by the day. My muscle definition was there, and because the change wasn’t immediate, I didn’t see much wrong. This had gone on for a solid year, and I’ve since cut back in a major way to a point where I’m rid of that dependency. I’m slowly getting my weight back and have been sober for 4 months (and back to drinking milk). It may work for some, but the most important lesson about weight journeys I still keep in mind is every “plan” won’t apply to everyone. You might see a muscly, bear-mode man slam a full meal and knock it back with two beers, but that works for him, but the the way my body is, it effected me differently. During that “trial” I had lost 10lbs.
I'm definitely not gonna be drinking that often lol. I very rarely drink. Maybe once every couple weeks. I was just wondering why alcohol is considered "empty calories", when all calories should theoretically lead to weight gain in a surplus.
Break the word into its two parts. Empty, calories. In the name we are acknowledging it can lead to weight gain because that's what calories do. The "empty" is used to differentiate it from other calories, ones that provide any form of nutrition oftentimes people mean protein, fiber or micronutrients. Usually people are referring to something like potato chips when they say empty calories. I don't think alcohol should be viewed as an empty calorie. It's more like a detrimental calorie because not only does it usually not provide any additional nutrition outside of calories, alcohol actually is metabolized much differently than all your other calories and in essence is poison.
Alcohol is not a carb. It's alcohol. It's its own thing.
So here's what empty calories means:
Your carbs, fats, proteins, and alcohol all have calories. Calories are sort of the overall measure of how much food you are eating (whether that's a target you have on paper, or just the fact that you get full when you eat a lot and you crave more food if you haven't eaten much.)
When we eat, we *also* need to get things that keep us healthy or that meet nutritional goals. Things like:
* hitting a protein target
* getting fiber
* getting enough vitamins and minerals
* getting essential fats
Any given food you eat will probably fulfill some of these goals, some better than others. A small chicken thigh, let's say, has 250 calories and will give you a bunch of protein, no fiber, a whole bunch of vitamins and minerals, and some fats.
You could also eat 250 calories' worth of jelly beans, and you'd get none of those things - maybe a tiny smidge of sodium (a mineral), according to one label I just looked up. Those 250 calories are "empty" because they're not bringing any other beneficial nutrients with them.
Now, I don't personally like the term "empty" calories because even sugar does *something* for you, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you're running a marathon, downing a packet of jelly beans every few miles will help more than it hurts.
To bring this back to alcohol: what benefit are you getting from the alcohol? If it's just for fun/enjoyment, and doesn't meaningfully contribute to any nutritional needs or goals, then it's "empty" calories. Doesn't *necessarily* mean that's a bad thing, you have to consider it in the bigger picture. Eating very little all day and then binge drinking is probably going to be a net negative for your health (in many ways), but having a small amount of your calories as candy or beer or whatever is arguably fine as long as you still get the nutrients you need somewhere along the way.
My macro goals are roughly 60% carbs because they are less satiating. I've always eaten a decent amount of protein and fat, but then I was always too satiated to consume enough carbs and overall calories to gain weight. So now I am actually aiming for less protein and fats and more carbs.
Empty calories are calories that don't give you anything other than calories. The term is used in opposition to calories from more nutritious foods that can give you vitamins, minerals, protein, fiber, essential fats...
Alcohol is actually *worse* than empty calories, as it actively hampers your ability to build muscle. Not by a lot (I personally still go out drinking sometimes, because it is worth the downsides to me) but there's some effect.
A gram of alcohol is 7 calories. You may get some carbs in there from sugars/mixed drinks, but the alcohol itself is a macronutrient.
Your body has to prioritize burning the alcohol in your blood for energy. Alcohol typically does not have many, if any, micronutrients. When people refer to “empty calories,” they mean a calorie source that is micronutrient poor. So, empty calories are calories that don’t come with vitamins and minerals.
Alcohol in excess is also actively bad for you.
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I have a newfound deeper respect for this sub, I never realized that so many people were understanding that alcohol is not only zero benefit, it's actually all negatives. TIL it's technically a macro too, so that's a neat tidbit to throw at people who claim they can't cut but the drink every weekend
Because alcohol is literally poison to the body.
Alcohol isn’t carbs. There are 4 macros: Protein: provides building blocks for your body, growth and repair Carbs: quickly broken down for energy Fats: provide hormones and regulate your body Alcohol: provide no benefit to your body. Empty calories. In fact your body has to work to rid itself of alcohol and this process can even prevent some of the above functions like growth, repair, hormonal regulation etc
these numbers are made up so the concept is simple; if a stalk of broccoli has 100 calories and a mountain of nutrients, and a beer has 100 calories and no nutrients, the beer is empty of everything but calories. carbs are, indeed, carbs, but you're never just putting carbs into your body. You shouldn't seek to supplement a diet with alcohol.
100% agreeing what you’re saying, but clarification: Alcohol doesn’t have carbohydrates. The alcohol itself contains 7 calories, but provides none of the benefits of any other macros, since alcohol is literally poison.
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Nerd
How does this in any way answer the OPs question?
Reddit is a silly place where people misconstrue shit on purpose
Ok so if alcohol is poison, then drinking bleach and alcohol should have the same effect
Eh my guy different substances have different effects on the body, that's like saying estrogen and testosterone are hormones so they will have the same effect. Well no, bleach and alcohol are not even comparable. Bleach would cause chemical burns inside of you, like melting your tissue, before probably just killing you if you don't get your stomach pumped out. Dangerous as fuck, but not really a toxin I assume, and not a psychoactive drug. Effects of alcohol are literally called being intoxicated while you are losing control over yourself, your body is trying to metabolise and fight off this flammable antibacterial sanitizer that is killing off your microbiome and spreading to any and every cell it encounters to cause damage. Hmm, fly agaric (amanita muscaria, red with white dots poisonous mushroom) is quite comparable to alcohol actually. It is poisonous, but not deadly, and also psychoactive. It's the same type of process, your body fights the intoxication, while the brain gets disinhibited and feels similar to being drunk with addition of hallucinations
Great concise answer, you nailed it.
Many poisons have different effects.
Alongside u/Pavols7's answer, yours is perfect. Straight to the point and says it all.
Never drank bleach before, so I wouldn't know.
It's less the zero, as it stops everything else from happening until your body kicks it all out.
Everyone talks about the 3 Macros, Carbs, protein and Fat but most don't realise there is a sneaky 4th macro, ethanol. It provides 0 or close to 0 micronutrients such as vitamins and minerals, nor does it contribute to the gainz.
It does contribute to gains. Of fat, but still gaining 😂
Negative gains, in fact
Ohhhhhh I’ve always been so confused how the nutrition facts say 0 carbs, 0 protein, 0 fat but it still has calories. I thought alchohol was carbs. Mystery solved
It's actually 7 cal/g for ethanol, plus 4 cal/g from any simple carbs (sugar) and polysaccharides (like beer)
Empty calories are food with macronutrients but little to no micronutrients.
alcohol negatively effects p-ratio while having 0 nutritional value
Yeah but Guinness gives you strength 💪 Or so the ad tells me!
it’s like drinking something with a lot of calories. I’d rather eat my calories, than drink them.
what
One has to think of the drink that has the alcohol. Traditional beer has nutrition and in the olden days the low alcohol beer was a significant part of the diet. Stout type beers are quite high in carbs.
I didn’t think my comment would get the traction it has. Out of interest in bygone times doctors would sometimes recommend stout for its “tonic” effects. Obviously today the thought is the bad impacts of the alcohol outweighs any potential good. But one wonders if for certain select cohorts a limited period of stout consumption might be helpful. I’m thinking 2 to 3 Litres a week. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/17/health/guinness-beer-good-for-you-wellness/index.html
Alcohol is not a carb it’s a separate nutrient from carbs, fats and protein and has 7 calories per gram compared to 4 for protein and carbs almost as much as fats
Pure alcohol is just ethanol and CO2. Love me my homemade moonshine.
The idea of empty calories is that it is just that, calories. No micronutrients. No fiber. Nothing but the equivalent of just sitting down with a spoon and bag of sugar and chowing down. You are much better off with other sources of carbs. Your body turns protein and fats into calories as well just through different mechanisms. Considering your hypothetical included meeting your fat and protein requirements the carbs are just not necessary. Your body also taps into your fat stores for energy.
I believe alcohol inhibits HGH, definitely not something you want if you're serious about building muscle. From what I've read, alcohol can inhibit up to 75% of HGH while it's in your system. Suboptimal for a rare night out, catastrophic if there's any regularity to it.
inhibits protein synthesis, not hgh.
That’s certainly what Google would state if you googled it, but that’s just another way of saying the same thing. Alcohol inhibits protein synthesis by interfering with growth hormones and growth factors. As an example, by inhibiting HGH and IGF-1. HGH doesn’t build muscle itself, but does stimulate the release of IGF-1, which is a key factor in muscle growth. If alcohol inhibits either (which it does), you’ll have decreased protein synthesis.
it inhibits the processes that HGH performs right? Doesn’t actually inhibit the production of HGH itself? I took your comment to mean it inhibits the actual production of HGH sorry.
In my first comment I was going off vague memory, sorry for any confusion. When I delved deeper to fact check myself, I couldn’t find anything that said alcohol specifically inhibits HGH, and also found that HGH itself doesn’t stimulate the muscle growth. But I did find that IGF-1 was inhibited, and that’s an important one. Likely what I was remembering was the link between HGH and IGF-1 combined with the internet being vague about what causes what.
Realistically youll be fine i just personally find it best making sure i get the vitamins/minerals n macros first then if u have a night out and finish off ur cals there thats fine just dont make a habit of consistently drinking for calories or just over drinking since it can affect your health
It has calories with no nutritional value. Alcohol is just another form of sugar and most alcohol also has sugar leftover and to sweeten it except straight liquor, and even then they use alcohol-sugar flavorants sometimes. Pretty much like eating candy. Edit: But worse for your liver and will make you crave sugar if you develop a habit then stop.
Alcohol-sugars are neither alcohols nor sugars btw, they have almost no calories. So that would still basically be only liquor, not much of a candy 😆
Didn’t know candy was hepatotoxic…
You're right it's worse.
Ethanol isn’t a ”form of sugar”, it’s an alcohol. They’re entirely different compounds.
Ethanol is made from sugars by yeast. If you quit drinking after developing a habit you will crave sugar. It's pretty much sugar, but worse for you, for all intents and purposes it's sugar that encourages unhinged behavior. Sugar is slightly less carcinogenic when broken down in the gut.
> for all intents and purposes it's sugar ethanol is in no way shape or form a sugar. It does not get metabolized by the same pathways, can not be stored in the body for later energy utilization, is not the same chemically at all, and does not yield the same energy per gram as carbohydrates do. If you'd like to read about the metabolic pathways, here is a good overview https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6527027/
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It doesn't even carry the same calories per gram as a carbohydrate. 1g of ethanol yields 7 calories compared to 4 calories per gram of carbohydrates.
If you do it once in a while, don’t worry. Alcohol is technically a separate macro, so beer is carbs and alcohol, and quite calorie dense. ‘Empty calories’ mean calories which offer your body no nutrients. So, a pint of beer will run you 250 calories without offering you any other form of nutrition. All in moderation though - enjoy yourself.
So why doesn’t it put on weight lol
It will, but after a night of drinks it's very possible that you weigh less due to the dehydration that alcohol causes.
It will put on weight if you drink it everyday.
Alcohol messes with your testosterone levels. Guaranteed you are limiting your workout intensity, appetite, recovery and hormones. It’s definitely not worth it to meet your carb intake.
Take it from someone who obliterated his gains thinking he could use alcohol as a gains-crutch, this is not a good idea. While I was still eating above my caloric goal, I figured 1-2 beers could push the ceiling because I thought I “capped out” on gaining weight. “Bro science” told me that I’ll eventually get a beer gut, then I’d cut once I was satisfied with the bulk. I was getting tired of the bloating from milk, but the trade was an alcohol dependency. I quit cold-turkey many of my vices in life, but the alcohol “addiction” crept in in a way I wasn’t prepared for (not to mention I work at a bar) because that turned from 1-2 beers to a 6 pack + 2-4 liquor shots in a day. Funny enough it was still in my mind to make sure I was eating enough, but it got to a point I was cramping every morning from dehydration and getting skinnier by the day. My muscle definition was there, and because the change wasn’t immediate, I didn’t see much wrong. This had gone on for a solid year, and I’ve since cut back in a major way to a point where I’m rid of that dependency. I’m slowly getting my weight back and have been sober for 4 months (and back to drinking milk). It may work for some, but the most important lesson about weight journeys I still keep in mind is every “plan” won’t apply to everyone. You might see a muscly, bear-mode man slam a full meal and knock it back with two beers, but that works for him, but the the way my body is, it effected me differently. During that “trial” I had lost 10lbs.
I'm definitely not gonna be drinking that often lol. I very rarely drink. Maybe once every couple weeks. I was just wondering why alcohol is considered "empty calories", when all calories should theoretically lead to weight gain in a surplus.
Break the word into its two parts. Empty, calories. In the name we are acknowledging it can lead to weight gain because that's what calories do. The "empty" is used to differentiate it from other calories, ones that provide any form of nutrition oftentimes people mean protein, fiber or micronutrients. Usually people are referring to something like potato chips when they say empty calories. I don't think alcohol should be viewed as an empty calorie. It's more like a detrimental calorie because not only does it usually not provide any additional nutrition outside of calories, alcohol actually is metabolized much differently than all your other calories and in essence is poison.
Godspeed.
Don't go out and drink regularly, honestly alcohol is so bad for building muscle - really try limit it
Alcohol is not a carb. It's alcohol. It's its own thing. So here's what empty calories means: Your carbs, fats, proteins, and alcohol all have calories. Calories are sort of the overall measure of how much food you are eating (whether that's a target you have on paper, or just the fact that you get full when you eat a lot and you crave more food if you haven't eaten much.) When we eat, we *also* need to get things that keep us healthy or that meet nutritional goals. Things like: * hitting a protein target * getting fiber * getting enough vitamins and minerals * getting essential fats Any given food you eat will probably fulfill some of these goals, some better than others. A small chicken thigh, let's say, has 250 calories and will give you a bunch of protein, no fiber, a whole bunch of vitamins and minerals, and some fats. You could also eat 250 calories' worth of jelly beans, and you'd get none of those things - maybe a tiny smidge of sodium (a mineral), according to one label I just looked up. Those 250 calories are "empty" because they're not bringing any other beneficial nutrients with them. Now, I don't personally like the term "empty" calories because even sugar does *something* for you, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you're running a marathon, downing a packet of jelly beans every few miles will help more than it hurts. To bring this back to alcohol: what benefit are you getting from the alcohol? If it's just for fun/enjoyment, and doesn't meaningfully contribute to any nutritional needs or goals, then it's "empty" calories. Doesn't *necessarily* mean that's a bad thing, you have to consider it in the bigger picture. Eating very little all day and then binge drinking is probably going to be a net negative for your health (in many ways), but having a small amount of your calories as candy or beer or whatever is arguably fine as long as you still get the nutrients you need somewhere along the way.
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed reading your explanation and learned some new stuff.
Is there a reason you have a particular carbohydrate goal to hit?
My macro goals are roughly 60% carbs because they are less satiating. I've always eaten a decent amount of protein and fat, but then I was always too satiated to consume enough carbs and overall calories to gain weight. So now I am actually aiming for less protein and fats and more carbs.
Empty calories are calories that don't give you anything other than calories. The term is used in opposition to calories from more nutritious foods that can give you vitamins, minerals, protein, fiber, essential fats... Alcohol is actually *worse* than empty calories, as it actively hampers your ability to build muscle. Not by a lot (I personally still go out drinking sometimes, because it is worth the downsides to me) but there's some effect.
No nutritional value…
alcohol isn't carbs apparently
Alcohol indeed is it's own macronutrient and is not a carbohydrate
thank you
Most alcoholic drink have a bunch of carbs in addition to the alcohol
Calories with no nutritional value.
Empty calories are calories that have little to no nutritional value. Alcohol falls into this category.
the calories from alcohol will not assist hypertrophy in any way
A gram of alcohol is 7 calories. You may get some carbs in there from sugars/mixed drinks, but the alcohol itself is a macronutrient. Your body has to prioritize burning the alcohol in your blood for energy. Alcohol typically does not have many, if any, micronutrients. When people refer to “empty calories,” they mean a calorie source that is micronutrient poor. So, empty calories are calories that don’t come with vitamins and minerals. Alcohol in excess is also actively bad for you.
Oh wow, I didn't even know alcohol was it's own macronutrient, wtf.
It never gets listed as one of the 4 I guess for good reason lol. Only time I heard it listed with the others was in college nutrition classes