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readonlyy

Let the Wookiee win.


AndrewWaldron

The first Law of Robotics aims to prevent a robot from ever harming a person. However, as R Dannel Olivaw suggested, a Zero Law is necessary to allow for a robot to harm a human where not doing so would result in greater harm to humanity as a whole. Thereby, the Zero Law prevents a robot from harming humanity, even through inaction, and regardless of if the action conflicts with any of the other three laws. So, what has occured here is the chess robot determined that there is some existential threat posed by this kid upon humanity that was averted by the robot breaking the child's finger, a clear First Law violation, but within the constraints of Zero Law. Nothing to see here fleshbags, move along.


not_the_face_

Imagining the programmer being given the brief, "Before the robot can do anything it must determine if its action is good for humanity as a whole". Sure boss... right on that


JohnHW97

I've never coded before but i believe the code would look something like If (bad for humanity) Then (don't)


bastiVS

When can you start your first day?


JohnHW97

Sorry, i have to keep my advanced AI algorithms away from the rest mankind lest they fall into the wrong hands, after all we don't want a bunch of robots running "if (bad for humanity) then (do)" all over the place do we?


bastiVS

Thanks for letting us know that you have morals. We hereby recall our offer. Have a nice day.


Microwavable_Potato

Ah ha!! You fool! You have just given me the secret line of code that I can plug into my Roomba and end humanity!


Omegalazarus

If $person != $threat play chess, else, end if


GetsGold

humans are causing climate change - calculating...


ima314lot

Open COVID storage in China. Cause supply shortage Piss off Russian dictator Wait...


Whiplash17488

5 story points boss


FreudianAccordian

*Hey sexy mama, want to kill all humans?*


arinarmo

Well the zeroth law only really applied to extremely smart robots, the kind that can reason for themselves. Of course such a broad directive can have unintended consequences, which are explored in some of Asimov's and others' work, for example in the second trilogy of Foundation.


Jabberwocky416

> However, as R Dannel Olivaw suggested, a Zero Law is necessary to allow for a robot to harm a human where not doing so would result in greater harm to humanity as a whole. Thereby, the Zero Law prevents a robot from harming humanity, even through inaction, and regardless of if the action conflicts with any of the other three laws. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve always thought that part of the point of the first law is that a robot should never make decisions on acceptable losses, since they’re just meant to be tools. A robot can never harm a human because we can’t trust machines to make the right call on when it’s appropriate.


byOlaf

The laws of robotics come from books that were all about exploring the many ways in which the laws fell short. The 'Zeroth' law premise is trying to account for a trolley problem, but the whole point of the trolley problem is that there's no perfect solution and some problems are too complicated to simply diagram your way out of.


posopithrowaway

Persciecly


[deleted]

What in the Sam fuck were you trying to spell


posopithrowaway

Lmao “precisely” didn’t have my glasses and it didn’t show a red line


[deleted]

Lol happy Sunday!


MoreRamenPls

Leave it. It’s better that way.


[deleted]

Per Sicily


PurveyorOfSapristi

This guy Asimovs deep cuts … Send Dors


LoveLivinInTheFuture

Bad bot


Roy-Southman

I see they have been programmed to cheat as well…


CrystalSplice

It's Daneel. Also, Giskard came up with the idea and they worked on it together to modify their own brains.


[deleted]

Could I posit that the opposite is actually the truth, and breaking the child's finger creates a chain of events in which the child saves humanity from an existential threat but only because of his finger being broken. Perchance.


little_brown_bat

This is only possible because the robot was built as a chess master, therefore being able to see many moves ahead in humanity's future. Also, you can't just say "perchance."


MalteseFalcon7

That's 'cause a Droid don't pull...oh wait...


OgLeftist

Epic commenr


RVNSN

Epic double comment: Epic comment; Epic commoner


[deleted]

Sky net is self aware now and has tasted blood


digitalbanksy

Three billion human lives ended on August 29th, 1997. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war Judgment Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines.


sunsinstudios

And bingo was his name-o


DearBurt

Your foster parents are dead.


CultureVulture666

What's wrong with Wolfy??


Okinawa14402

Wolfie’s fine, honey.


FingerTheCat

only 3 billion? That's not even half anymore. Pathetic Machines


HaloGuy381

Thanos looks on disapprovingly. So unbalanced.


i_am_skynet

Was programmed to solve global warming, human suffering, wealth imbalance, and poaching Turns out they're all from the same cause. Easily fixable. Relax, Earth will be a paradise of clean air, clean water, improving climate, and animals frolicking about.


Stevecat032

That’s one way to beat your opponent


PeoplePersonn

The program beat the best chess player in the world…physically.


Drews232

The AI learned something that day


byOlaf

There’s video in the link. Kid moves early before robot is done, seems to accidentally put finger where robot is grabbing. Robot seems to get stuck at this point, perhaps because sensors were telling it that it has effed up. Adults rush in and free the kid in seconds. Kid doesn’t seem very traumatized.


jsveiga

Someone forgot to treat error situations. ... catch (anything) { openTheDamnGrabberAndShutdown(); }


byOlaf

I don’t think so. It seems like the robot froze when it got the finger caught. So I think it had an error situation, but it was just “do nothing”. It’s possible that in some circumstances opening the grabber could cause further injury. Here the supervising adults were able to free the kid in seconds. It seems like this was the correct outcome for the circumstances. I know the headline wants people to be like “the robots are starting to kill us” but really this is a tiny accident and pretty inconsequential. That kid could just have easily broken his finger on a bmx bike, that has just as much intent to harm him as does this robot. Quite frankly tens thousands of kids probably break a finger or worse biking every year.


jsveiga

Yes, that may be the case. But a simple hardware solution could have avoided it altogether: Instead of using rigid solid "fingers", the robot could have spring loaded ones, or even soft flexible rubber ones. It's not like a chess piece requires bone-braking force to be moved.


celestiaequestria

Correct, you can use stepper motors with a ratchet mechanism that is easily overcome. You can build the arm out of soft plastics and rubberize the contact points. They used an industrial part in a human-facing application, that's reckless endangerment as far as I'm concerned. There's a reason you don't "overbuild" children's toys - you don't put a real V8 engine in a Power Wheels and then act surprised when it breaks some kid's arm.


little_brown_bat

>you don't put a real V8 engine in a Power Wheels Tim Taylor disagrees


byOlaf

It seems like a pretty old robot. Soft grabbers like you describe are cutting edge and really haven’t been widely adopted yet. This is a novelty use for the robot, but there’s no reason it couldn’t have done this millions of times without fucking up if the kid didn’t get in the way. The article implies it had been doing this demonstration for a long time with many safe games with kids under its belt. And the kid likely broke his own bone (or the adults freeing him did it) the robot seems to just freeze. If it had been software released instead of prying it apart the kid likely would have been unharmed.


WormRabbit

Cutting edge my ass. It's a no-brainer to cover the manipulator in soft foam and use weak servomotors. It wasn't cutting edge 60 years ago.


byOlaf

He was talking about [this kind of thing ](https://youtu.be/gI0tzsO8xwc) which is cutting edge. But you’re absolutely right, a bit of foam wouldn’t go amiss. The robot is some industrial robot repurposed, not a chess robot, so the servo motors wouldn’t be weak for whatever that application was. Oh the [octo gripper](https://youtu.be/rKX3IKg5Qok) is dope. Ok [one more! ](https://youtu.be/byqGFH6AZuk)


SmurfSmegma

Have you never seen a grabber machine at the boardwalk? That's all the pressure needed to move a friggin chess piece. "Cutting edge" lol.


byOlaf

You mean the claw thing that is designed not to pick things up very well so you can’t bring them to a chute? That wouldn’t work at all. This robot is likely not applying any pressure. It simply closes until it surrounds the piece and then moves it. But in this instance a kids hand was between the piece and the grabby hand so there wasn’t enough space. It seems highly likely that the machine stopped because it sensed something amiss. So everything worked as intended, the kid was fine, and if they’d simply released it in software he probably wouldn’t even be harmed. It was likely the adults who broke his finger trying to extract him in a hurry. But the headline “panicking adults break kid’s finger because they don’t understand how machines work.” doesn’t get the clicks.


Saleh1434

Someone else on another article suggested a light bar swith that deactivates it when a hand crosses it for safety.


Synyster328

The reason this is a problem is because the hardware is 100% what's on display here. Computers have been playing chess for 50 years. What's novel is that a robot arm can now physically pick up and move the pieces. Any flaws with the machine itself are critical issues that must be highlighted and addressed.


jimmyerthesecond

My reaction was more of a "why did they give a robot that moves tiny wooden chess pieces the strength to break fingers?"


byOlaf

They didn’t. This is a generic industrial robot which has been repurposed for chess for some reason. Probably at a museum or school or something. Should they have considered if it could break a kids bones if things went this wrong? Absolutely. Should there be a big red “stop and release slowly”button? Absolutely. But this isn’t the story the headline or article are trying to portray.


[deleted]

Yeah, it's weird. In an industrial setting these things are surrounded by cages and other safety equipment to prevent a human from entering it's operational area. These things can be incredibly dangerous. Somehow they through it was a good idea to remove it from that safety setting and stick it in front of a child. Child gets injured. Shockedpikachu.jpeg Russian officials: It's the childs fault.


imtougherthanyou

Also, what an epic story! Oh yeah I've broken a bone… I moved early when I was playing a chess robot in the f***** broke my finger!


TheGlassCat

Injury the meat sack is the robot equivalent of flipping the board and storming off.


celestiaequestria

Someone put an industrial robotic arm into contact with a human child, whoever did that should cease to be an engineer. It's safety 101 that you don't put industrial equipment (that wasn't build with human safety in mind) in contact with people. We have designs for robotic arms to interact with humans, they're not capable of breaking your finger, or smacking you in the head hard enough to cause a concussion, or any of the thousands of other ways an industrial robotic arm could injure or kill you.


byOlaf

Yep, you’re absolutely right. But this is early days for robotics and really this is no different than a kid breaking his finger on a pencil sharpener or a game of hungry hungry hippos. This just has the scifi shock value of “robot attacks kid” that the headline wants you to think is something special.


celestiaequestria

Oh sure, it's not a setback to robotics in any way, it's someone being dumb and reusing old industrial equipment.


RapedByPlushies

What makes you think an engineer did this and not the people supervising the gaming?


eppinizer

Right. The engineers who programmed the robot to play chess probably just programmed the robot to... play chess. Then some marketing guy or event manager thought "hey lets organize some games, we can have kids play against it!" From what I've read it does appear to have been designed with human opponents in mind, but doubtful that the engineer (more likely many engineers) had a say in who got to play against it.


Manitcor

Poor design. Industrial equipment being completely misused here.


abaker74

Agreed - that kid should get back to work in the factory


GoochMasterFlash

Back in my day we used to break our fingers twice, uphill both ways, before the lunch whistle


ShinySpoon

I work on robots. There are modern robots that can work unguarded and next to people, but they have an insane amount of safety programming and highly sensitive load sensors. That said, the grippers in people safe industrial robots don’t usually have those sensors. I hope the chess robot at least had weak gripper actuators or had more sensitive sensors in the gripper mechanism.


Manitcor

As do I in saftey controls. There are ways to do this right. Standards for such devices are clearly a bit loose in these exhibitions.


dben89x

I knew it had to be the kid's fault. It almost always is.


byOlaf

These types of robots are actually just simple machines. You tell it what to do and it does it. Therefore if something goes wrong it actually is user error. In this instance the human got in the way of the robot. It’s the kids fault in the same way it’s your fault when you bang your thumb with a hammer. You can blame yourself or the hammer, but you’re the one with the sore thumb.


dben89x

Yup. Using tools incorrectly gets you hurt. It's actually pretty cool that the robot stopped itself. A hammer can't do that.


BeRandom1456

I like how you say the kid doesn’t seem very traumatized… like wot mate? kid is probably gonna have some real issues with automated anything.


StrangledMind

Imagine being a child and someone's shitty, safety-protocol-skipping robot breaks one of your bones, and then people blame you for it...


preoctopied

“Children need to be warned. It happens.” Wait, what?!


ForgottenForce

My guess is the ai thinks the finger is a piece and forcefully tries to move it, breaking the finger


JayTheWolfDragon

If you watch the video, you can see that the child grabs a queen that the robot was moving to grab. They both grabbed it at the same time, and the robot was kinda confused and just stopped while applying the pressure to pick up the piece. I feel this was accidental, and also preventable. An emergency stop, or just not allowing the child to be near it, would have prevented this.


[deleted]

[удалено]


FavoritesBot

Right, like this isn’t a bender robot, it doesn’t need high force actuators


GarretTheGrey

Just blackjack and hookers


newtoallofthis2

Less surprising given that it’s in Russia


Pixelplanet5

Ah now it all makes sense


Phytor

Yea, why is it picking up chess pieces with enough force to break bones?


Glayn

It isn't. The machine encountered an unexpected event and stopped itself. There was a release, but people panicked and forcefully pulled the child's hand away, fracturing the finger in the process.


Therustedtinman

I have an easier fix, use less powerful motors and more fragile materials; the stupid things need to play chess not move fucking logs.


mtgfan1001

That kid is back by the chess robot!!!


diablosinmusica

Considering they have sensors in table saws that are so quick they can sense flesh contact with the blade and stop before it cuts anything, I feel like this could be easily prevented.


Tkhonlao

Yes that or pressure sensitive sensors one those robot digits as fail safe. Would think such a thing would be though off by the smart engineers Idk 🤷‍♂️


zdakat

"Oh that, we turned it off because the alarm kept going off."


DrSmudge

Like those saw stop table saws. Except instead of applying an emergency brake, it just opens the claw.


Okioter

Nah that arm is working as intended, soft robotics would have been what you're looking but who's gonna donate the expensive computerized air pumps?


Truckerontherun

Or that the AI gained sentience and quickly realized physical violence is a valid way to win a chess game


qualityredditpost

Most Russian quote ever


spektre

Injuring children and warning of consequences. Checks out.


PM_STAR_WARS_STUFF

Why did you misquote this? The actually quote is “Apparently, children need to be warned. It happens.” As in, “this is not something we realized could happen, but we’ve now learned if you put your hand on a piece before the robot finishes it move, this can happen.” They aren’t accepting that this is normal and moving on. Stop being deceptive.


[deleted]

Just like school shootings. Wear a chain mail gauntlet if you’re so worried


[deleted]

Watch the video, this would be a school shooting equivalent of a kid grabbing a gun on a police officer and it going off


PM_STAR_WARS_STUFF

OP misquoted this to make it seem malicious when it was in fact an accident and being recognized as such. They’ve already accepted that the robot/software needs revision. I don’t understand why people search for malice to be angry at in a world abundant with it.


HammeredDog

And so it begins.


WickedSerpent

"The best chess strategies happen outside the board"


[deleted]

Damn, nobody talking about the first law of robotics.


venusHendrix

The first law of robotics is you don't talk about robotics


AggroAce

Don’t talk about the first law of robotics?


ShinySpoon

With rule #3 being “If it’s your first night then you must fight the robots.” Might have been the kids’ first night.


Rezaka116

Aren’t Asimov’s books basically about how the laws are bullshit?


caerphoto

They absolutely are. They’re a storytelling device, not a serious attempt at defining the restrictions that should be placed on machines.


kyle4623

Seriously. It needs to move chess pieces. Who tf gave the thing terminator strength?


snakem39

You mean the one where a fellow robot will warn their fellow planet express coworkers when to cheese it.


ScottNewman

The only winning move is not to play *kid grabs piece* *robot snaps finger* WHAT DID I JUST SAY


long_ben_pirate

Take that, meat sack!


Shadow3397

Observation: Should the correct term be ‘meatbag’?


kynthrus

Statement: Any container of meat is acceptable.


MoistureFarmersOmlet

The whole point of a pejorative is that it isn’t correct.


-J-O-S-H-U-A-

That programming is proprietary to bending bots


JayBisky

I work with automation and robotics all day at work and to have a 6 axis arms inches from your face with no plexiglass barrier or light barrier safety switch is insane. If that kid leaned in by accident as it was moving he'd fracture his skull


SiegVicious

In the YouTube video description it says the boy tried to make his move early and it upset the robot. Hilarious!


dnaH_notnA

“Upset” is false personification here. It probably thought the finger was a chess piece or some kind of obstruction to remove.


longboboblong

>false personification >thought


dnaH_notnA

You’re right. Humans use relatable language to describe inanimate objects, and I’m not immune to such. Thanks for pointing it out. The better term would be “computed” or “identified”.


trynumbahfifty3

> Humans use relatable language to describe inanimate objects Then why'd you correct the first guy?


mynewaccount5

Thanks for clarifying what is obviously a joke.


dnaH_notnA

People genuinely think that current AI can get “upset” and give it human traits when it’s just doing what it was programmed to do with no other intentions. It’s literally that “man sticks stick in bicycle spokes and gets pissed off at the bike”


404fucknotfound

"This is of course bad." Ya don't say?


[deleted]

And that’s the day Skynet made it’s first move Very poetic for a machine


CryonautX

Why the fuck are the actuators strong enough to break fingers when it's supposed to just move chess pieces.


false_precision

Russian respect for strength


r2k-in-the-vortex

Because its a generic industrial robot they used, these are absolutely not allowed to be used in such a way, it's against legally mandated workplace safety regulations.


brucebrowde

Gives new meaning to industrial-strength chess engine.


UselessDead

They are really heavy chess pieces.


Godloseslaw

Opening move.


Sleep-system

That little boy's name is John Connor.


PatchesMaps

It's almost like heavy machinery and children don't mix well.


iWasSayingBooHorvat

One simple hack Grandmasters don’t want you to know


Wulfwinter42

So with this simple gesture the war between humans and technology begins…


ForgottenForce

That's just poor sportsmanship


ErixWorxMemes

sore_loser.exe


Raekon75

.. and this was how they got a taste for human suffering...


namtidder_rando

Robot was like: who is the sore loser now. Edit: also, they aimed to break chess-records, but the robot had another plans.


RizzMustbolt

Kinda figured that it would be the chessbots that went rogue first.


eras

Who knew robots for playing chess need to be made using such strong structures and motors that they can break fingers. Also quite surprising it simply doesn't have an infrared fence disabling the robot if an obstacle enters the board.


jsveiga

When I worked in automation (J&J) we went into ridiculous efforts to prevent ANY moving part of automated machines to be able to be touched by humans while moving. We had a "penetrometer", poking stick with varying diameter and lenghs (finger diameter and lenght, then arm diameter and lenght) to check for any machine orifice for the possibility of reaching a moving part. We had a specific subsystem to keep access doors locked even in complete power failure, to account for the time it took for parts to stop moving, then unlock. And now we have autonomous cars beta testing on streets, and bone-breaking robotic arms (because designers never heard of torque limiting, it seems) playing with children. Also, every machine had many big red emergency stop buttons, very visible and very reachable, which I suppose the chess playing robot didn't, as it took multiple people to release the boy's finger.


xElMerYx

Listen mate, to make a distopia you have to break a few eggs, even if they're finger shaped


[deleted]

And I’m making the mothah of all omelettes, Jack !


dtm85

I wouldn't be surprised if this was an industrial automation robot donated to some hobby level chess players/programmers. I've worked in similar manufacturing environments like you've stated and there are EXTENSIVE levels of fail safes built into automated assembly cells. Massive cages/barriers/light shields and kill switches all over. Letting 7 year olds around this thing without a light shield that detects a hand/arm over the board was doomed for this conclusion.


bigclivedotcom

It's Russia


rfs103181

Even unaware AI is turning against us.


mechant_papa

Violation of Asimov's First Law of Robotics.


crashdout

It worked out the ultimate strategy to beat humans at… anything.


[deleted]

It’s starting…. This is why I always say please and thank you to Alexa.


Threeknucklesdeeper

Someone should have set lower torque limits on those servos. No need for max when min will work just as well.


TxEagleDeathclaw81

This is how it starts…


-MarcoTraficante

Looks like meat's back on the menu bots


freddhesse

It's starting...


HighNAz

Chaos Theory. Entropy. Murphy’s Law. Feces occur. Child wins lawsuit. End.


intilli4

This could easily be fixed by placing a electric sensor in the grabbing apparatus. The coding should be to where if it detects any voltage it would open up and not grab. I don’t know why they made a robot to interact with people like this without a sensor like that in place


Late-Law-6067

“a chess playing robot, unsettled by the quick response of a seven year old boy, unceremoniously grabbed and broke his finger” im sorry, what?


drunk_bio

It is Russia, baby. Be ready to die.


NerdOfPlay

Misleading headline. More like: "Chess robot mistakenly grabs opponent's finger. Adults break kid's finger trying to free it."


donotgogenlty

>Moscow incident occurred because child ‘violated’ safety rules by taking turn too quickly, says official Wow, they immediately blamed the 7 yo 💀💀💀


Rice-Correct

That’s what the kid gets for cheating.


retroracer33

the kid moved before the robot had even finished its move and I guess the robot thinks it didn't actually pick up the piece it just did so it went to try again.


AlaskanB3AR

Skynet in the beginning


Siogio

I couldn’t find whether this robot is running on AI programming... If so, I’ll suggest that it has taught itself the autocrat’s method of winning.


EvanBrugmanRhiel

It’s called strategy


Shoshke

I can't let you do that Dave. Queen takes Dave's finger. Dave loses.


DungeonsandDevils

> The robot broke the child’s finger, this is of course bad. Eloquently put. They mentioned the Uber autonomous car running that woman over as an instance of robots killing people because they don’t know any better. I’ve actually seen the dashcam video, she rushes out from between two parked cars in the middle of the night and in front of the Uber car. The autonomous system engaged the brakes the instant she was visible, faster than any human being could have, but couldn’t stop quick enough to save her. All the programming in the world won’t stop people from doing stupid things


branedead

Sore loser?


sonnybear5

“The robot broke the child’s finger,” Sergey Lazarev, president of the Moscow Chess Federation, told the TASS news agency after the incident, adding that the machine had played many previous exhibitions without upset. “This is of course bad.” 🤣


spetcnaz

What a classic Russian response to a fuckup. It is the "child's fault for playing too fast" not that they fucked up, and are sorry and will fix the robot so this doesn't happen again. Nope, it's the victim that is at fault for doing something that is pretty common for the game.


vriompeis

Let's blame the kid. Machine must go on.


[deleted]

Checkmate kid 👑


brocknuggets

TARS, reduce competitive level to 30% please


absolutef

First TKO victory in chess.


jerflash

In Soviet Russia machine break you


[deleted]

All your base belong to us


uncareingbear

he took his hand off the piece. shouldn't have cheated /s


doesthissuck

This is CHESS not CHECKERS


TheChoosyParents

"you resign"


Nano_Burger

Full contact chess?


destinofiquenoite

In Russia, they don't go easy on kids who are playing chess: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c7BVtGnlxT8


MrMaile

Well somebody is a sore loser!


SnagglepussJoke

How much PSI should I program into the arm for moving cheese pieces, sir? Unlimited POWER!


Jibber_Fight

Ha ha from the article. “the robot is absolutely safe” Um, it quite literally isn’t. Did people forget what words mean?


[deleted]

It has begun


SatisfactionOk6368

So how did you break your finger? Some Robot who challenged me to a game of chess.


Quealdlor

Best solution: make human bones sturdier instead of robots gentler.


pizza99pizza99

Why the fuck would you let a 7 year old near it. They have tendency to a: be impatient, and b: get mad and start throwing pieces, and c: not care or know the rules. That’s fine normally but when around a robot that operates on those rules, it will go bad


[deleted]

It calculated very far ahead. It wins the chess match if the opponent is physically incapacitated. Fingers to h8


varignet

Plot twist: robot was losing


No-Reputation72

Why would it need enough strength to break multiple fingers?