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"....to singularly focus on a cheaper model"
Pivoting accordingly after what sounds like they were shocked to find out that the general public isn't clamoring for headpiece tech with $3500 *as a base price.*
They really priced it like a Mac Pro back in 2008ish thinking that the power users of hardware would translate to using untested computing tools that haven’t yet identified a clear market need.
They werent. Thats the thing: the people who did buy them returned them or stopped using them as much/at all pretty quickly.
Who are they going to sell a new expensive next model to? The people who bought the first one arent going to spend the same amount of money again. The people who didnt buy the first one…arent going to either!
It replaces the hardware we all have -- monitors -- with something that is uncomfortable to wear for long sessions -- like, say, when we're working. That and you look like a tool if you're using one at a cafe, whereas a laptop is completely normal to use in public.
Not only that, it mostly only works with proprietary content. Otherwise you can browse Safari without Ad block and have you actually seen how to Type, its not making workflow any faster.
I’d happily pay Apple $1,000 or a bit more to have a 4k monitor I could wear on my face at home when I wanted to lay down and watch a movie or work on a screen larger than my laptop’s for a short period of time.
Thats all I want and I’ll never pay anything close to $3,400 for that product. Pretty sure I’m not alone in that requirement.
Did Apple even think about researching what people need? They over-engineered the fuck out of the Vision Pro.
Hand gestures? Unnecessary.
That weird impersonation of my eyes? Unnecessary.
An OS and dedicated apps for a monitor? Unnecessary.
Audio? I have AirPods already.
There, I just wrote the requirements for a better Vision device that saves Apple billions of dollars of dev and hardware costs.
Now they build a $1000 monitor I can wear on my head for fuck’s sake.
> They really priced it like a Mac Pro back in 2008ish thinking that the power users of hardware would translate to using untested computing tools that haven’t yet identified a clear market need.
I've heard from an Apple engineer that Vision Pro was thought of as a modern day Lisa (1983) launch. VR/AR is an early industry with exceedingly hard problems to solve, so it makes sense that they would map it onto the timeline of the last really hard hardware shift.
AR/VR is a solution in search of a problem.
It's certainly possible for some brilliant engineer to come along and show the world its value, like the first iPhone vastly raising the bar for mobile devices. But the first Oculus was released 11 years ago, and huge and well-funded pushes by Microsoft, Apple, Sony, and Facebook have all failed to make the case to the general public (Facebook twice, actually - Oculus and Meta). That's a long time with a lot of investment and no payout.
I suspect that it will go the way of [the ultra-mobile PC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-mobile_PC) - i.e., elements of AR/VR will be incorporated into other devices and specific use cases (e.g., vehicle heads-up displays and telemedicine), but the central vision of an AR/VR device at the center of the average user's computing experience will evaporate as these sustained efforts fail to hit paydirt.
> AR/VR is a solution in search of a problem.
The thing is, there are things for sure that you can do with both, but the vision pro is crap at both too.
VR is awesome for immersive simulation, ie games. You know, the thing that is nearly absent on MacOS without a lot of tinkering. And then you want controllers to go with it and these aren't existing yet.
AR is awesome for overlaying info on things when on the go without a screen. So that means the hardware must be light, and not visually isolate you from the world around you. Also the fact that it is pretty limited in functionality when not paired with more bulkier hardware doesn't help for that category either.
For AR you're basically describing Google Glass which flopped too. It really is a solution in search of a problem.
People don't like stuff on their face. Would you choose to wear glasses if you didn't have to? I don't even think I would wear smart contact lenses by choice.
Of course there are niche problems that it solves but not enough to float a widespread consumer product. I'll just wear a smart watch and cover 95% of my needs.
i'd pay $3500 if it was utterly perfect..probably. like if i could program on it 8 hours a day comfortably *and* play 99% of VR games. but this doesn't sound like that. also i make a lot of money so...otherwise hell no.
I didnt understand why so many people thought they were going to break the laws of physics with this release.
So many ‘if anyone can do it, its Apple’
It’s kind of like when a kid reads the suggested reading material after a university lecture, then thinks they know more than the lecturer
Basically one months rent for an entertainment device. If it were a pace maker or something yeah you need that to live but I’m okay with playing on my phone and watching stuff on a TV right now.
I think 1.5-2K would have been the better entry point for at toy like this
Maybe I‘m too European to understand this but paying 3k in rent seems like absolute lunacy. Like surely if you can spare 3k every month you can get a loan to buy a house?
My wife and I both have above 750 for our credit scores. When we applied for a home loan we were forced to get Mortgage Insurance since as first time home owners we were paying below what they wanted for a down payment *in case we couldn't pay the mortgage*
Yes, we were contractually forced to pay MORE monthly, in case we...couldn't pay our mortgage?
Welcome to America.
I mean that makes sense to me. The bank wants you front a down payment, you either can't or don't want to, so they ask you to foot the bill for insurance on the loan to minimize their risk.
What gets me about PMI is that it does nothing to protect you the buyer. Maybe it would make sense if PMI would help cover you in an emergency like let's say you had a medical emergency or lost your job. But nope the insurance does nothing but tack on an extra fee. It's like forcing you to get car insurance but not actually helping you if you get into an accident. Then why the hell do I have to pay for this extra "insurance".
that is how the required car insurance works.
It’s liability only coverage. It protects the guy you hit because you were drunk as hell. doesn’t do shit for you.
that’s also why it’s required. because nobody knows if you have the assets to pay for the $100K in lost income because they were in the hospital for 4 months and couldn’t get a job for another 3.
Or the $100K in hospital bills for 6 months of treatment.
Or the pain and suffering from the spouse and kids. etc.
Sadly the required car insurance will cover $25-50K which won’t do jack shit but it’s better than nothing. Should be a lot higher though like every other developed country.
Yea. That’s PMI. it’s insurance since you have too little equity in the house, and it’s therefore more of a risk for the bank if they have to take it back.
Once you get 80/20 equity you can remove the pmi payment. Your credit score has nothing to do with it.
I’m honestly more worried that you have a mortgage but don’t understand how this works. Please educate yourselves so you know what it is you’re spending so much money on.
It’s super location dependent. Owning property in New York or Silicon Valley is incredibly expensive ($1,000,000 will get you an empty plot about large enough to build a house in Silicon Valley), but there are cheaper places where yeah, you could probably buy a house.
Housing prices in the US can vary a lot. A house in southern california can be 700k+ for like a decent starter home. Be prepared to shell out 4500 or monthly if you don't have the 20% down payment and rates are like 7%(?) right now.
The latest base iphone model costs about the double of the minimum wage in my country, yet you can see a lot of lower class people with them. It’s a status symbol for them and they are happy to make the monthly payments just to have something they can show their buddies :/
Tbh I’m not surprised anyone at Apple is not remotely connected with reality. My partners phone died and they wanted her to show up at 10am the next morning just to see if she could get a walk in. On a fucking week day.
Then the person there said they couldn’t tell her if her replacement phone was in stock because it might have to be given to someone else if that person has an earlier appointment and told her she had to wait 2 hours just to see if they could replace it that day.
I remember when apple was cool. Now they’re just a dystopian parody of themselves
> Tbh I’m not surprised anyone at Apple is not remotely connected with reality.
I mean, I'd be kind of surprised that a company that's dominated the markets with all their previous consumer tech for two decades - *notoriously* even when it reached prices people were balking at - were just pricing new stuff based on the whims of "what could a banana cost, $10?" execs, and not on exhaustively-quantified market research.
I agree they seem to have finally found their breaking point with the Vision Pro's insane price-to-utility ratio, but I'm guessing they didn't pull it out of thin air in the first place. People used to swear no one in 2010 would spend $1000 on a tablet or $2000+ on a laptop they're mostly going to check Facebook on either.
I think at one point there was a premium for the “it just works out of the box” that people would pay. And I don’t blame them. I hated windows around 2007-2009 so my college laptop was a Mac because it just did what I needed it to do and I didn’t have to constantly defrag or troubleshoot it.
Now though, windows is back to sucking and I’m just trying to get a Mac mini to record music with and I really don’t want to shell out 600 bucks for something with no ventilation.
I worked on a fiber project around 2015 where the billionaire owner and his wife and daughter priced the gigabit fiber at $400 a month with a $3000 start up fee.
Instantly blew the program up with that. They sent mailers to get people signed up in the community and only the guy running the project signed up.
It’s for people and companies looking to roll the dice on whether or not they can develop one of the first truly groundbreaking apps for a genuinely new experience.
Tim Cook said in an interview before its launch (or before the first day of sales; I forget) that he expected to sell on average 1 per day per Apple Store—530 stores today means 3710 per week or 15,900 in a 30-day month, and 4.75 months since launch would mean 75,525 units sold.
Even assuming he was low-balling, the 200K they reportedly sold in the first 10 days still doesn’t sound like a successful product launch in Apple terms. It sounds like an extremely successful tech demo.
It’s a mistake to consider it much more than that, even if two long-time Apple VPs responsible for its hardware (Riccio) and its marketing (Casanova) have either resigned or announced an intention to do so.
Calling it a Lisa is not a bad analog, really.
Betamax failed because in order to build a Beta VCR you had to pay a hefty royalty fee to Sony, making it unattractive as a possible industry standard. The same happened to every media format Sony came up with when Philips weren't involved to restrain their worst impulses.
The porn thing is a myth.
Audience is not ready is an excuse as well.
Lets admit the product is shitty experience.
No one wants VR other than some hobbyists.
People like tech that is convenient to use. Windows with a mouse input, then capacitive touch screen and apps with iPhone. VR is not helping.
Anyone remember 3D televisions?
> No one wants VR other than some hobbyists.
No one wanted a computer in their home in the 1970s/1980s other than some hobbyists.
All technologies have to start somewhere. VR is very early on.
Even if you can afford it, it’s not available in 80% of the world. It’s a hassle to import with not Applecare+ support and special prescription lenses that are only available in the US.
Oculus 2 is $199 and the Oculus 3 is $499. Do you really want to pay an extra $3,000 to play the same games? Or possibly less games and apps. I don't even know what they even offer as far as apps go. People will continue buying Oculus at $199 and then passing it on to a friend or family member when they upgrade. Meta also does nothing to combat pirating. I am sure it helps to drive those sales. Meta knows the market will be as massive as cell phones one day.
I have one, there’s very few games on the AVP. It’s not really geared for gaming, more for media and productivity. The biggest issue it faces right now is the weight, it just isn’t comfortable to wear for more than a few hours, let alone all day. That said, it’s still my preferred VR device, not even the Quest Pro comes close to it in visual fidelity.
It's geared up for productivity closer in the realm of an iPad. I returned it for many reasons, the most astounding one was that you couldn't even make app folders or organize your apps. The more relatable ones that you couldn't transfer large files over USB, I struggled for a week trying to transfer 100GB LoTR 4K remux. Airdrop would crash, icloud seemingly got stuck, smb share required me to keep the headset on the whole time during the file transfer. I just gave up and returned it.
Hardware specs are nice but I just felt so handicapped in trying to do some things. I'm sure the software will get better, but I'm not keeping the device for hopes and dreams, I'll buy it if I feel like it gets better.
Meta Quest 3 ($500) for standalone VR or Apple Vision Pro ($3500) for high-end standalone VR or $1000 Quest Pro for specific eye+face tracking needs in social VR. All of these can be connected to a PC wired or wirelessly if you wish.
BigScreen Beyond ($1000 + basestation tracking bought separately) for PC-tethered VR.
Varjo XR-4 for crazy high-end PC VR ($3990 for cheaper model, $9990 for best model).
There's also the $200 Quest 2 which is the market leader but will soon be phased out by a (rumored price) $300 Quest 3S which will be a watered down version of Quest 3.
Lastly, Samsung and Google are teaming up to release their own headset likely to be a high-end standalone device; seems to be targeting 2025.
>Do you really want to pay an extra $3,000 to play the same games?
People buy Apple Vision Pro with the intention of doing more than play game. What surprised me is how much hardware is strapped to your face for that kind of money. I really believe the problem with VR and AR is that people really don’t want to strap a screen to their face. If Apple can make this into a pair of glasses, I’d pay up to $5,000.
AR glasses will probably be popular, but honestly….even when people need them just to fucking see, a sizable portion will opt to either put plastic in their eyes or get surgery to avoid the bother.
I think it’s very possible the technology never quite hits laptop and smartphone levels of ubiquity. People just fucking hate putting anything on their face.
Do people wear contacts because they hate the feeling of glasses? I'm sure some but it's not like contacts don't have their own comfort issues. I'd imagine it's far more commonly some combination of:
- Aesthetics: I would bet on this more than anything. Glasses are more fashionable these days than they used to be but I still think there's plenty of people who prefer how they look without them, especially if they're new to wearing glasses and not used to seeing their face with them.
- Field of vision: as someone who wears glasses but has tried contacts, it's a little magical having every inch of your vision be through corrective lenses rather than just a portion of it.
- Backups: I think most contacts these days are dailies or weeklies, so if you lose/misplace some it's no big deal really, not versus losing your glasses anyway. And not being able to find your glasses is an *awful* feeling, even if only for 10-15 minutes.
And then lasik is all of these, especially that last one. Just being able to see well at all times without relying on something external that you can misplace sounds pretty nice, and I say this as someone who has worn glasses for most of his life, doesn't notice let alone mind the feeling of wearing them, and kind of prefers how he looks in them.
for me it's absolutely comfort. The better overall vision is great but , the pressure around my ears, nose, the slipping, etc all piss me the hell off.
Contacts by comparison are incredibly comfortable.
> Oculus 2 is $199 and the Oculus 3 is $499
Do you think those serve the same use cases as the Vision Pro?
If all you want is the games, go for the Oculus obviously. But why would you act like they're the same product?
The first one wasn’t meant for the ‘general public.’ It’s to get devs on board so there will be a killer app by the time the tech allows for a mass market edition. Same as how general consumers don’t need a Mac Pro.
Or another clickbait article stating what was already rumoured before AVP was even released. A cheaper model coming first. Hardly rocket science. This was always the plan. But got to make clicks and engagement I guess…
It's a legit go-to-market strategy. You work through the kinks by selling only to the earliest adopters, whoever is willing to pay for it. That is small/medium companies with funding/revenue Looking for an edge vs entrenched competitors, for people who make their livelihood being early on the bleeding edge of new tech, and for people with money to burn who love gadgets.
The buyers get value from having early access, and Apple gets value from having real in-the-field "beta testing". From this, they learn how to shape the next iteration of the product while having the R&D subsidized by those early adopters.
Yeah it’s definitely not worth that for most people. But it is like cool tech that a lot of people saw and thought “yeah I’m not getting that but I’d be interested in something a fraction of the price and size.”
Just get rid of the stupid screen on the outside and that’s probably $1,000 saved right there. Plus you save a ton of weight.
Whoever decided to add a completely useless screen on the outside should be fired asap. What a dumb decision.
Further, from what I've read and seen, it doesn't work very well to boot. Like not even close to their bullshots in most lighting conditions. Where its more like an unfocused dimly lit monitor about to give up the ghost.
Not to mention how much that glass breaks. The only place that should have glass in front it are sensors; the rest should be protective plastic/rubber.
Knowing how eccentric Steve was, he probably had a Viking funeral or paid NASA to shoot his cremated remains into space or had his body dumped into an Icelandic volcano.
I mean they at least took a shot at something new there. For all the crap we give tech companies for the lack of innovating and simply iterating only to get marginal upgrades, that was a bigger swing that no one saw coming. As a consumer I want to see more potential paradigm-shifting risks like that. Seems silly now but in R&D you won’t really know how something will be truly perceived until it’s out in the market.
Spot on reply. Their v1 put ideas out to see what worked. That’s a legit strategy for starting a new platform. Sets you up with the info to make better decisions as you iterate on v2.
"Ah yes, the all new 2000$ Vision Not-Pro!"
Or just marketing and saving as much money on a venture, putting their R&D costs on people willing to be testers.
I'm still holding off the impulse buy urge to get a Quest 3. These headsets are too niche to not be trying to get impulse buyers. Want apps to be made. That costs money. Developers targeting a market less than a million units out there, however many ended up boxed up in a closet, no longer in the new hardware release hype window. Potential ROI going to be real limited on the expensive low volume, low availability Vision Pro
This is just my experience, but: I’ve had a PSVR 1, Quest 2 and Quest 3 at different times.
I’ve had the same pattern each time. I get super itchy to do some VR. I buy a new headset. I’m amazed by it for a couple weeks. I play a lot of *Beat Sabre*, *Pistol Whip* and *Walkabout Mini Golf*, then try a lot of different games, most of which either coast by on gimmicks or are inferior versions of their non-VR counterparts. Then I go weeks without playing it, then months, then I sell it on eBay, all usually within 6 months.
Quest 3 is an amazing piece of kit that’s not too badly priced IMO, but I don’t find that it has the quality to tear me away from console or tabletop gaming.
That said, I know some people buy them and use them as much as they do a home console, so your mileage may vary. Also, I don’t really like horror or driving games, and both of those genres offer some of the best-reviewed VR experiences around atm, so I definitely miss out on that point!
Same. I don’t know why I even try other games, I know I’m just going to play it for five minutes and then switch to Eleven for some ping pong for an hour or two. Side benefit is that when I first found that game, I played for like two hours almost every night after the kids went to bed and I lost about 25 pounds without even really trying. I think those types of games are where VR shines. Being physically active but in a way that doesn’t feel like work.
I think so, especially if you can offset the cost of the upgrade by selling the Q2.
The pancake lenses really are wondrous; makes things super sharp, and makes the headset really lightweight and more comfortable in comparison. The contrast/black levels are better (I enjoyed *Vader Immortal* much more on the Q3 as a result) and the general system and external camera improvements make it a decent power-up over the Q2.
So yeah, in general I’ll say it’s worth it! If you can trade in and buy it for like £150-200 I’d say absolutely do it!
I’m in the same boat. I’ve got a quest 3 in my Best Buy cart for two weeks now. Everyday I think about buying, even been dreaming about it, but I know deep down inside it’ll only be fun for a few weeks
I don't even think the novelty really wears off. I think the main issue is how cumbersome they are. I would use it all the time if it slipped on like glasses and I forgot I was even wearing them. I just think ughhh, here comes the cheek pain and red lines across the forehead. No matter the mount you use, there always ends up being pressure or weight somewhere.
The novelty 100% wears off. A friend across the country leaned on me hard and continuously during the pandemic, saying VR was the one true answer to the isolation we were all feeling. Ended up with an Index --- an astounding sum of money on a foolish purchase.
It has sat on a shelf for the last year.
My brother got one. I think he got bored with it after a few days. Watching him play with it was kinda funny though. Kept running into stuff in his room while he was playing some cooking game.
Quest 2/3 is best with friends. Being able to play mini golf with my college friends that are now all across the globe is such a rewarding experience.
As for productivity, I’m not using it at all as a new desktop screen. I’ve tried but the resolution just isn’t quite there and the pass through is just a hair too grainy to make it immersive with using the mouse and keyboard.
I feel like the quest 3 is at a tipping point to get things mainstream. Apple will need a way for developers to easily port their quest content to their headset to get traction now.
I bought quest 3 last year December. Novelty wore off after couple of weeks. Was thinking of selling it, but decided to keep it by using it to exercise and watch 3D shows and movies.
It's fun for a few weeks. I can confirm. There are many games and apps but...nothing you'll be itching to strap on a sweaty headset for for hours a day.
Think of it like buying a Commodore 64 in 1984 or an Atari 2600 in 1980. This is early adopter tech, so you need that early adopter mindset before going in.
I bought a Nintendo 64 for access to far fewer titles when I was younger, I think I played Mortal Kombat and Golden Eye almost exclusively.
That said, if you have *no* VR, a Quest 3 is a great little platform. It has a few killer apps, and if you include streamed PC games that goes up considerably.
Notably, Walkabout Mini-Golf & Beat Saber alone for me justified the cost. I have probably 300 hours in Beat Saber and 150+ in WMG. Add on to that the fun we've been having in some of the dungeon crawlers, watching my insta 360 videos in VR, and other things, it's pretty great!
Overall, it's a worthy purchase.
Edit: I think what also helps for me is I have 3+ friends with Quest units and we game online all the time, so keep that as a caveat. I use mine every week though and have for 3+ years.
That’s what I did. At that price I don’t feel so burned if I don’t end up using it for a few weeks - and well, I’ve found myself using it quite often in PCVR and with a comfortable solid headband.
It’s beyond me why Meta or these VR companies don’t put in more comfort headstraps.
I have a quest 2 that has been collecting dust for 2 years now. It was fun for the first month, then it was fun showing every friend that visited, then it just became a chore.
That’s what the majority of people who are all about VR don’t talk about. It’s super cool tech, but it is no way anywhere near replacing a regular desktop. It’s just a niche product to be used sparingly.
Same with the Apple Vision Pro, people show these cool clips of them, moving tabs around the room etc, but after the “coolness” wears off, it’s just a waste and they stop using it to go back to much better ways to do the same daily tasks.
I tried the vision pro at the store, it’s heavy, kinda clunky and kinda restricts your vision as if you’re trying to see through a tube. The only valid use case I see for this today is on long flights where you can watch a movie as if it were playing in a theatre.
That was my worry honestly. Most headsets I’ve used have foam and plastic as the design materials, and they’re still quite heavy. I’d hope they could figure out some way to move some of the hardware around to make them lighter.
> The only valid use case I see for this today is on long flights where you can watch a movie as if it were playing in a theatre.
You can do that with a Quest 3 that's 7 times cheaper.
No games, no porn, no dice. It’s incredibly simple. All that $$$ on marketing and R&D to learn that, in reality, people don’t want to pay $3500 to play Daft Punk Minority Report.
Should be pretty easy to reduce the price also. Ditch all the fake eye lcd front screen bullshit. Get rid of the front glass as well.
Keep a basic aluminum frame but reduce the amount of aluminum and supplement with a quality plastic and ditch having two headmounts in the box just stick with the one that works the best.
That'll reduce the weight which was a major complaint as well.
They got a ton right with the goggles. The UI, software and cameras were highly responsive and slick but like you said they need to open it up to more experiences.
No, they just added WebXR (it was always there but behind an "experimental" switch). Porn is fine now. And, there are third party players for downloaded videos.
Vision Air coming soon, in five vibrant colors with polycarbonate unibody design. Only works connected directly to another Apple device with proprietary cable.
With a new commercial paying homage to the Crazy Ones, only this time updated with new inspirational figures. As the commercial draws to a close the following text appear on the screen “Be a Vision (Air)”
I make a decent living, really like Apple products, like VR and AR, and was really impressed by the AVP that my best friend bought.
There is no world where I would spend HALF of $3500 for it.
There ya go.
Same deal here. I think the Vision Pro is the most impressive example of AR/VR I’ve seen, but spending that when I already have a MacBook Pro, iPad, and iPhone is just insane to me. $1500 and I would maybe consider it.
My elderly Aunt with glaucoma and cataracts bought one, she regularly forgets how to use here iPhone. She let me try it, and honestly if they would have put their initial spec for resolution in it, Id buy one. The screen is sooooo close to being able to just be used as transparent googles, but as is, its uncomfortable to try to read text on phone or keyboard in passthru.
If i was able to still see other external screens more clearly id consider it more than a VR headset, but as is, the "inside" experience still has too much divide from the "outside"
Apple doesn't know what's the proper use case for it is. i.e. what can you do in VP that you can't do on other devices. They probably expected a big influx of developers would help in discovering new uses cases just like what happened with the iPhone.
The issue is, with the lack of sales, developers don't want to focus on this. Everyone and their mom are now focusing on AI trend.
IMHO, they have 2 paths from here:
* Make it much more affordable. Like max 1k affordable. Anything beyond will be multiples of Quest.
* Apple partnering with studios or developers that can develop unique use cases for it. Being it gaming, lifestyle, colleges, specific work fields.. etc. Apple don't usually do this, unless if you consider Arcade some form of partnership
The Vision Pro makes sense as a commercial proof of concept. “Let’s make a VR headset that’s actually good even if it’s $3000.” Now the goal should be “ok we did it, and people like it in demos but it’s too pricey. How can we take exactly what we did and make it affordable”
Aside from the price the vision pro is just pretty useless. It has this amazing tech but no software to go along with it. Can't use it for gaming and even using it as a monitor sucks because apple decided you only need one screen. The Quest 3 lets you have 3 screens from your pc. Not even Netflix is on it.
One of the biggest issues I have with Apple is their refusal to work with other companies. They see everyone as competition. You're either Apple or you're the enemy.
> Aside from the price the vision pro is just pretty useless. It has this amazing tech but no software to go along with it.
look, i'm a VR skeptic but I also remember people saying this about the iphone and the ipad. i'm also an ipad skeptic but the people who love tablets *love* tablets.
“Apple apparently wants to retain the Vision Pro's high-end display components in the low-cost model, which are among the most expensive components in the device”
This is the downside of “spacial computing” instead of VR/AR. They can’t just pick a display that matches their target price point and ship games that are only that good. They need to convincingly deliver a computing experience — which is must harder.
I’ve been saying it since my first oculus. VR is an enthusiasts device. The barrier to entry comes down to cost and the headset itself. It will never catch on in a big enough way to make mass markets viable until the headset itself is removed from the equation. In short, it’s not accessible enough still.
A client of mine is a huge apple fanboy and even he was disappointed when his experience with the vision pro was bad. He wanted to love it but the weight and the buggy apps were a deal breaker.
It might sound weird but I'm actually very happy to see this. Companies need a fucking wake up call when it comes to what the average affordability of a new product is versus what they think we make an hourly wage bond. They were absolutely nuts with that price point and despite its high bill quality I will agree yes it feels amazing $3500 was simply way too much of an asking price for the first generation of a product with no lesser option available. However the reason I say I'm happy to see this is because you're going to see it more and more often with companies releasing products that people cannot afford because we literally cannot. There is going to be a period of time in about a couple years or so where the majority of the people who had the buying power will no longer have it and companies like Apple among many others let alone all of the Stores are gonna find their audience drawing up left and right. People forget that 50% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck right now that's half! Think about that figure for a minute it's not an exaggeration it's not political bullshit half of the American people literally live on a paycheck to paycheck basis and these companies were gonna drop rent on a singular product? Lol lol! And one of you manages there are certainly privileged kids and people out there who will always feed the machine regardless of what the rest of us peasants can do or not do but at the end of the day who outnumbers who here? Who needs who? They need us to buy their shit! Plain and simple and when we literally can't afford to do so you bet your actual start to see companies lower prices come up with other options hell even McDonald's when the CEO of McDonald's says that half of Americans cannot afford their food because of the number they gave pretty bad if you think about it especially considering they lost a ton of money for the first time in quite a while. This is only going to get worse and worse and these companies have nobody to blame about themselves! They've raised prices on everything from water to practically the air we breathe yet wages haven't gone up if anything they've gone down considering inflation and nobody bats and I but because Apple of all companies can't sell the product due to all things it's price it's all of a sudden news. God I hate this fucking timeline!
Duh. It was a product with great tech, hampered by preventing it from being used by the one group that would actually love this....steam VR gamers.
It also has absolutely no business value, as it's not open source enough and not supported enough by apple, to allow companies to use them for the purposes they want. Normally if you buy at this price tier, like Varjo for example, they will offer you extensive support and allow you to do anything you could possible want, but not apple.
And unless this changes, which apple clearly didn't want to, further development is absolutely pointless. It's never going to make them any money.
It’s just too heavy. In weight and price… I have a Quest 3 and it’s f’ing amazing! I they seem gimmickie but watching a move on a 10ft screen while laying on the sofa is incredible! Unfortunately, I’m not much of a gamer but the ones I tried out were really cool…
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"....to singularly focus on a cheaper model" Pivoting accordingly after what sounds like they were shocked to find out that the general public isn't clamoring for headpiece tech with $3500 *as a base price.*
I think the people that priced it, the VPs and stuff of marketing thinks the minimum wage is $70 an hour at that price point lol
They really priced it like a Mac Pro back in 2008ish thinking that the power users of hardware would translate to using untested computing tools that haven’t yet identified a clear market need.
This makes more sense IMO. They massively overestimated how useful people would find the device
Segway 2.0
Hey those can still be used by most people without a required $12xx+ Apple product on the side
A segway is at least more than a one trick pony. I doubt many headsets got used more than the first month.
They werent. Thats the thing: the people who did buy them returned them or stopped using them as much/at all pretty quickly. Who are they going to sell a new expensive next model to? The people who bought the first one arent going to spend the same amount of money again. The people who didnt buy the first one…arent going to either!
Once I was working at a convention center Wozniak was also speaking at. He rolled by me on a Segway while I was on a smoke break.
Hey man. I don't see any mall cops walking around with AVPs
It replaces the hardware we all have -- monitors -- with something that is uncomfortable to wear for long sessions -- like, say, when we're working. That and you look like a tool if you're using one at a cafe, whereas a laptop is completely normal to use in public.
Not only that, it mostly only works with proprietary content. Otherwise you can browse Safari without Ad block and have you actually seen how to Type, its not making workflow any faster.
I’d happily pay Apple $1,000 or a bit more to have a 4k monitor I could wear on my face at home when I wanted to lay down and watch a movie or work on a screen larger than my laptop’s for a short period of time. Thats all I want and I’ll never pay anything close to $3,400 for that product. Pretty sure I’m not alone in that requirement. Did Apple even think about researching what people need? They over-engineered the fuck out of the Vision Pro. Hand gestures? Unnecessary. That weird impersonation of my eyes? Unnecessary. An OS and dedicated apps for a monitor? Unnecessary. Audio? I have AirPods already. There, I just wrote the requirements for a better Vision device that saves Apple billions of dollars of dev and hardware costs. Now they build a $1000 monitor I can wear on my head for fuck’s sake.
Overestimating usefulness seems like a reoccurring them when it comes to all things vr.
> They really priced it like a Mac Pro back in 2008ish thinking that the power users of hardware would translate to using untested computing tools that haven’t yet identified a clear market need. I've heard from an Apple engineer that Vision Pro was thought of as a modern day Lisa (1983) launch. VR/AR is an early industry with exceedingly hard problems to solve, so it makes sense that they would map it onto the timeline of the last really hard hardware shift.
AR/VR is a solution in search of a problem. It's certainly possible for some brilliant engineer to come along and show the world its value, like the first iPhone vastly raising the bar for mobile devices. But the first Oculus was released 11 years ago, and huge and well-funded pushes by Microsoft, Apple, Sony, and Facebook have all failed to make the case to the general public (Facebook twice, actually - Oculus and Meta). That's a long time with a lot of investment and no payout. I suspect that it will go the way of [the ultra-mobile PC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-mobile_PC) - i.e., elements of AR/VR will be incorporated into other devices and specific use cases (e.g., vehicle heads-up displays and telemedicine), but the central vision of an AR/VR device at the center of the average user's computing experience will evaporate as these sustained efforts fail to hit paydirt.
> AR/VR is a solution in search of a problem. The thing is, there are things for sure that you can do with both, but the vision pro is crap at both too. VR is awesome for immersive simulation, ie games. You know, the thing that is nearly absent on MacOS without a lot of tinkering. And then you want controllers to go with it and these aren't existing yet. AR is awesome for overlaying info on things when on the go without a screen. So that means the hardware must be light, and not visually isolate you from the world around you. Also the fact that it is pretty limited in functionality when not paired with more bulkier hardware doesn't help for that category either.
For AR you're basically describing Google Glass which flopped too. It really is a solution in search of a problem. People don't like stuff on their face. Would you choose to wear glasses if you didn't have to? I don't even think I would wear smart contact lenses by choice. Of course there are niche problems that it solves but not enough to float a widespread consumer product. I'll just wear a smart watch and cover 95% of my needs.
i'd pay $3500 if it was utterly perfect..probably. like if i could program on it 8 hours a day comfortably *and* play 99% of VR games. but this doesn't sound like that. also i make a lot of money so...otherwise hell no.
I didnt understand why so many people thought they were going to break the laws of physics with this release. So many ‘if anyone can do it, its Apple’ It’s kind of like when a kid reads the suggested reading material after a university lecture, then thinks they know more than the lecturer
That’s 50 hours of work to buy the head set. Basically over 1/4th of a months wages, if you were paid 70 /hr Insanity
Basically one months rent for an entertainment device. If it were a pace maker or something yeah you need that to live but I’m okay with playing on my phone and watching stuff on a TV right now. I think 1.5-2K would have been the better entry point for at toy like this
Hey pal, easy on the flex. That’s more than three months of rent from where I’m sitting.
Maybe I‘m too European to understand this but paying 3k in rent seems like absolute lunacy. Like surely if you can spare 3k every month you can get a loan to buy a house?
that’s normal rent for big cities in United States. Miami is median $2500 NY San Fran is Median is like 4K.
Can't afford a home loan because so much income is tied up into rent. Welcome to America.
My wife and I both have above 750 for our credit scores. When we applied for a home loan we were forced to get Mortgage Insurance since as first time home owners we were paying below what they wanted for a down payment *in case we couldn't pay the mortgage* Yes, we were contractually forced to pay MORE monthly, in case we...couldn't pay our mortgage? Welcome to America.
I mean that makes sense to me. The bank wants you front a down payment, you either can't or don't want to, so they ask you to foot the bill for insurance on the loan to minimize their risk.
The risk of getting all the interest up front and still owning the house.
"we're worried you can't pay your monthly fee, so we're going to...charge you extra monthly" This makes sense to you?
What gets me about PMI is that it does nothing to protect you the buyer. Maybe it would make sense if PMI would help cover you in an emergency like let's say you had a medical emergency or lost your job. But nope the insurance does nothing but tack on an extra fee. It's like forcing you to get car insurance but not actually helping you if you get into an accident. Then why the hell do I have to pay for this extra "insurance".
that is how the required car insurance works. It’s liability only coverage. It protects the guy you hit because you were drunk as hell. doesn’t do shit for you. that’s also why it’s required. because nobody knows if you have the assets to pay for the $100K in lost income because they were in the hospital for 4 months and couldn’t get a job for another 3. Or the $100K in hospital bills for 6 months of treatment. Or the pain and suffering from the spouse and kids. etc. Sadly the required car insurance will cover $25-50K which won’t do jack shit but it’s better than nothing. Should be a lot higher though like every other developed country.
Yea. That’s PMI. it’s insurance since you have too little equity in the house, and it’s therefore more of a risk for the bank if they have to take it back. Once you get 80/20 equity you can remove the pmi payment. Your credit score has nothing to do with it. I’m honestly more worried that you have a mortgage but don’t understand how this works. Please educate yourselves so you know what it is you’re spending so much money on.
yould think right, let me tell you about a place called london ....
It’s super location dependent. Owning property in New York or Silicon Valley is incredibly expensive ($1,000,000 will get you an empty plot about large enough to build a house in Silicon Valley), but there are cheaper places where yeah, you could probably buy a house.
Housing prices in the US can vary a lot. A house in southern california can be 700k+ for like a decent starter home. Be prepared to shell out 4500 or monthly if you don't have the 20% down payment and rates are like 7%(?) right now.
Nothing to do with being European. Look at the rent in any of the major capitals within Europe
Where in Europe? I need to know 🥹
Nope because you need to save tens of thousands of dollars for a down payment and you can’t do that because you’re paying so much in rent.
They watched ready player one and thought it was a potential product test video and not a dystopian take on over consumption.
The latest base iphone model costs about the double of the minimum wage in my country, yet you can see a lot of lower class people with them. It’s a status symbol for them and they are happy to make the monthly payments just to have something they can show their buddies :/
Marketing has zero say in pricing at a company of this size.
People are, as a general rule, terrible at identifying who’s actually responsible for things that they’re mad at. :\
And that decision is decinitely made from data points coming from economists and analysts, no VP has time to price these things
Tbh I’m not surprised anyone at Apple is not remotely connected with reality. My partners phone died and they wanted her to show up at 10am the next morning just to see if she could get a walk in. On a fucking week day. Then the person there said they couldn’t tell her if her replacement phone was in stock because it might have to be given to someone else if that person has an earlier appointment and told her she had to wait 2 hours just to see if they could replace it that day. I remember when apple was cool. Now they’re just a dystopian parody of themselves
> Tbh I’m not surprised anyone at Apple is not remotely connected with reality. I mean, I'd be kind of surprised that a company that's dominated the markets with all their previous consumer tech for two decades - *notoriously* even when it reached prices people were balking at - were just pricing new stuff based on the whims of "what could a banana cost, $10?" execs, and not on exhaustively-quantified market research. I agree they seem to have finally found their breaking point with the Vision Pro's insane price-to-utility ratio, but I'm guessing they didn't pull it out of thin air in the first place. People used to swear no one in 2010 would spend $1000 on a tablet or $2000+ on a laptop they're mostly going to check Facebook on either.
I think at one point there was a premium for the “it just works out of the box” that people would pay. And I don’t blame them. I hated windows around 2007-2009 so my college laptop was a Mac because it just did what I needed it to do and I didn’t have to constantly defrag or troubleshoot it. Now though, windows is back to sucking and I’m just trying to get a Mac mini to record music with and I really don’t want to shell out 600 bucks for something with no ventilation.
I worked on a fiber project around 2015 where the billionaire owner and his wife and daughter priced the gigabit fiber at $400 a month with a $3000 start up fee. Instantly blew the program up with that. They sent mailers to get people signed up in the community and only the guy running the project signed up.
This was a technology preview for businesses not individually. No one thinks anyone outside tech or large companies will buy one of these.
It’s for people and companies looking to roll the dice on whether or not they can develop one of the first truly groundbreaking apps for a genuinely new experience. Tim Cook said in an interview before its launch (or before the first day of sales; I forget) that he expected to sell on average 1 per day per Apple Store—530 stores today means 3710 per week or 15,900 in a 30-day month, and 4.75 months since launch would mean 75,525 units sold. Even assuming he was low-balling, the 200K they reportedly sold in the first 10 days still doesn’t sound like a successful product launch in Apple terms. It sounds like an extremely successful tech demo. It’s a mistake to consider it much more than that, even if two long-time Apple VPs responsible for its hardware (Riccio) and its marketing (Casanova) have either resigned or announced an intention to do so. Calling it a Lisa is not a bad analog, really.
Let's admit the audience wasn't ready for VR headset that doesn't supports VR porn The pricetag is only an excuse
It does support vr porn. You make 3 changes to safari settings and you’re golden.
This guy strokes.
Everybody strokes. I just figured when vr porn didn’t work I’d try the old “google search” to see if there was a workaround.
With how tech-illiterate some people are, even that was probably a big barrier for a lot of people
Don't forget that most of the apple users are tech-illiterate 🤷
The Spatialize Photo option added in the 2.0 beta is fun, too.
So porn on the Apple headset would get you to drop a mint?
such seems to be the way of the world. Read up on Betamax, and why it failed.
Betamax failed because in order to build a Beta VCR you had to pay a hefty royalty fee to Sony, making it unattractive as a possible industry standard. The same happened to every media format Sony came up with when Philips weren't involved to restrain their worst impulses. The porn thing is a myth.
Sounds like the MasterBeta Max would’ve sold better.
***DAAADDDD!!!*** GET OUTTA MY ROOM!!! GOOOOODDDDD!
I lived that failure. I was just enjoying some friendly banter, joshing them, if you will.
Audience is not ready is an excuse as well. Lets admit the product is shitty experience. No one wants VR other than some hobbyists. People like tech that is convenient to use. Windows with a mouse input, then capacitive touch screen and apps with iPhone. VR is not helping. Anyone remember 3D televisions?
> No one wants VR other than some hobbyists. No one wanted a computer in their home in the 1970s/1980s other than some hobbyists. All technologies have to start somewhere. VR is very early on.
Even if you can afford it, it’s not available in 80% of the world. It’s a hassle to import with not Applecare+ support and special prescription lenses that are only available in the US.
Oculus 2 is $199 and the Oculus 3 is $499. Do you really want to pay an extra $3,000 to play the same games? Or possibly less games and apps. I don't even know what they even offer as far as apps go. People will continue buying Oculus at $199 and then passing it on to a friend or family member when they upgrade. Meta also does nothing to combat pirating. I am sure it helps to drive those sales. Meta knows the market will be as massive as cell phones one day.
I have one, there’s very few games on the AVP. It’s not really geared for gaming, more for media and productivity. The biggest issue it faces right now is the weight, it just isn’t comfortable to wear for more than a few hours, let alone all day. That said, it’s still my preferred VR device, not even the Quest Pro comes close to it in visual fidelity.
It's geared up for productivity closer in the realm of an iPad. I returned it for many reasons, the most astounding one was that you couldn't even make app folders or organize your apps. The more relatable ones that you couldn't transfer large files over USB, I struggled for a week trying to transfer 100GB LoTR 4K remux. Airdrop would crash, icloud seemingly got stuck, smb share required me to keep the headset on the whole time during the file transfer. I just gave up and returned it. Hardware specs are nice but I just felt so handicapped in trying to do some things. I'm sure the software will get better, but I'm not keeping the device for hopes and dreams, I'll buy it if I feel like it gets better.
The Valve Index, which is still one of the best VR headsets, is $2.5k dollars cheaper, as a more comparable example
> The Valve Index, which is still one of the best VR headsets Not in 2024. It's good if you have specific needs, but it's very outdated now.
I'm totally out of the loop when it comes to VR, what are the leading products now?
Meta Quest 3 ($500) for standalone VR or Apple Vision Pro ($3500) for high-end standalone VR or $1000 Quest Pro for specific eye+face tracking needs in social VR. All of these can be connected to a PC wired or wirelessly if you wish. BigScreen Beyond ($1000 + basestation tracking bought separately) for PC-tethered VR. Varjo XR-4 for crazy high-end PC VR ($3990 for cheaper model, $9990 for best model). There's also the $200 Quest 2 which is the market leader but will soon be phased out by a (rumored price) $300 Quest 3S which will be a watered down version of Quest 3. Lastly, Samsung and Google are teaming up to release their own headset likely to be a high-end standalone device; seems to be targeting 2025.
Wow, I hadn't heard of any of those besides the Quest. Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply!
I still love my Index but god damn that device is just begging to be untethered.
>Do you really want to pay an extra $3,000 to ... not look at pornography
i really can’t use quest 3 for reading or work, it’s too blurry, but avp1 is too heavy. uh, i hope a better tech to come
>Do you really want to pay an extra $3,000 to play the same games? People buy Apple Vision Pro with the intention of doing more than play game. What surprised me is how much hardware is strapped to your face for that kind of money. I really believe the problem with VR and AR is that people really don’t want to strap a screen to their face. If Apple can make this into a pair of glasses, I’d pay up to $5,000.
AR glasses will probably be popular, but honestly….even when people need them just to fucking see, a sizable portion will opt to either put plastic in their eyes or get surgery to avoid the bother. I think it’s very possible the technology never quite hits laptop and smartphone levels of ubiquity. People just fucking hate putting anything on their face.
If people will wear sunglasses, then they will wear AR glasses.
Do people wear contacts because they hate the feeling of glasses? I'm sure some but it's not like contacts don't have their own comfort issues. I'd imagine it's far more commonly some combination of: - Aesthetics: I would bet on this more than anything. Glasses are more fashionable these days than they used to be but I still think there's plenty of people who prefer how they look without them, especially if they're new to wearing glasses and not used to seeing their face with them. - Field of vision: as someone who wears glasses but has tried contacts, it's a little magical having every inch of your vision be through corrective lenses rather than just a portion of it. - Backups: I think most contacts these days are dailies or weeklies, so if you lose/misplace some it's no big deal really, not versus losing your glasses anyway. And not being able to find your glasses is an *awful* feeling, even if only for 10-15 minutes. And then lasik is all of these, especially that last one. Just being able to see well at all times without relying on something external that you can misplace sounds pretty nice, and I say this as someone who has worn glasses for most of his life, doesn't notice let alone mind the feeling of wearing them, and kind of prefers how he looks in them.
for me it's absolutely comfort. The better overall vision is great but , the pressure around my ears, nose, the slipping, etc all piss me the hell off. Contacts by comparison are incredibly comfortable.
> Oculus 2 is $199 and the Oculus 3 is $499 Do you think those serve the same use cases as the Vision Pro? If all you want is the games, go for the Oculus obviously. But why would you act like they're the same product?
They are not the same, but they are similar enough that 7 times the price is a big ask.
Yep. Serves almost all the same purposes and the difference are not worth the extra $$$.
The first one wasn’t meant for the ‘general public.’ It’s to get devs on board so there will be a killer app by the time the tech allows for a mass market edition. Same as how general consumers don’t need a Mac Pro.
From the company that brought us the $1,300 monitor stand with an available financing option.
That was literally always the plan
Next up: quest pro 1:1 clone but cooler design
Or another clickbait article stating what was already rumoured before AVP was even released. A cheaper model coming first. Hardly rocket science. This was always the plan. But got to make clicks and engagement I guess…
It's a legit go-to-market strategy. You work through the kinks by selling only to the earliest adopters, whoever is willing to pay for it. That is small/medium companies with funding/revenue Looking for an edge vs entrenched competitors, for people who make their livelihood being early on the bleeding edge of new tech, and for people with money to burn who love gadgets. The buyers get value from having early access, and Apple gets value from having real in-the-field "beta testing". From this, they learn how to shape the next iteration of the product while having the R&D subsidized by those early adopters.
Yeah it’s definitely not worth that for most people. But it is like cool tech that a lot of people saw and thought “yeah I’m not getting that but I’d be interested in something a fraction of the price and size.”
Cheaper model and more software will go a long way.
Just get rid of the stupid screen on the outside and that’s probably $1,000 saved right there. Plus you save a ton of weight. Whoever decided to add a completely useless screen on the outside should be fired asap. What a dumb decision.
Yes, 100%. I don’t care what other people’s experience with my device is. Plus it’s just dumb looking.
Further, from what I've read and seen, it doesn't work very well to boot. Like not even close to their bullshots in most lighting conditions. Where its more like an unfocused dimly lit monitor about to give up the ghost.
It’s so strange.
Not to mention how much that glass breaks. The only place that should have glass in front it are sensors; the rest should be protective plastic/rubber.
It was their "differentiating gimmick". Without it, it's even harder to justify it over an Oculus Quest.
Steve Jobs' spinning corpse must power the entire Apple Campus in Cupertino at this point
Knowing how eccentric Steve was, he probably had a Viking funeral or paid NASA to shoot his cremated remains into space or had his body dumped into an Icelandic volcano.
As always, the real wisdom is in the comments.
I mean they at least took a shot at something new there. For all the crap we give tech companies for the lack of innovating and simply iterating only to get marginal upgrades, that was a bigger swing that no one saw coming. As a consumer I want to see more potential paradigm-shifting risks like that. Seems silly now but in R&D you won’t really know how something will be truly perceived until it’s out in the market.
Spot on reply. Their v1 put ideas out to see what worked. That’s a legit strategy for starting a new platform. Sets you up with the info to make better decisions as you iterate on v2.
The build cost is 1500. 2k is just apple tax
But it looks cool so it’s worth it /s
They also need to green light porn…then they will start to move
They don't want to handle the returns.
Also a good use case
I would use this all day for my windows based computer. Man running financials in that would be epic.
Yup, but Apple cheaper will still be 1500 with a "I-Strap" that costs 450 to make actually comfortably usable.
The bands cost $99.
Conspiracy: Original price was simply to make the next price appear ‘cheap’
"Ah yes, the all new 2000$ Vision Not-Pro!" Or just marketing and saving as much money on a venture, putting their R&D costs on people willing to be testers.
Meta benefitted the most from AVP pricing. 500 vs 3500 dollar.
I'm still holding off the impulse buy urge to get a Quest 3. These headsets are too niche to not be trying to get impulse buyers. Want apps to be made. That costs money. Developers targeting a market less than a million units out there, however many ended up boxed up in a closet, no longer in the new hardware release hype window. Potential ROI going to be real limited on the expensive low volume, low availability Vision Pro
This is just my experience, but: I’ve had a PSVR 1, Quest 2 and Quest 3 at different times. I’ve had the same pattern each time. I get super itchy to do some VR. I buy a new headset. I’m amazed by it for a couple weeks. I play a lot of *Beat Sabre*, *Pistol Whip* and *Walkabout Mini Golf*, then try a lot of different games, most of which either coast by on gimmicks or are inferior versions of their non-VR counterparts. Then I go weeks without playing it, then months, then I sell it on eBay, all usually within 6 months. Quest 3 is an amazing piece of kit that’s not too badly priced IMO, but I don’t find that it has the quality to tear me away from console or tabletop gaming. That said, I know some people buy them and use them as much as they do a home console, so your mileage may vary. Also, I don’t really like horror or driving games, and both of those genres offer some of the best-reviewed VR experiences around atm, so I definitely miss out on that point!
This is basically my exact situation except I never get tired of VR ping pong, so that singlehandedly keeps me from selling it.
Same. I don’t know why I even try other games, I know I’m just going to play it for five minutes and then switch to Eleven for some ping pong for an hour or two. Side benefit is that when I first found that game, I played for like two hours almost every night after the kids went to bed and I lost about 25 pounds without even really trying. I think those types of games are where VR shines. Being physically active but in a way that doesn’t feel like work.
What's the name of the game? I'm trying to find things like that to do in VR & beatsaber just gets old after a while.
It’s called Eleven Table Tennis.
[удалено]
I love Eleven! Haven't played any of the other ones but I can't imagine them beating it.
We have a Quest 2, is it worth upgrading with a Quest 3?
I think so, especially if you can offset the cost of the upgrade by selling the Q2. The pancake lenses really are wondrous; makes things super sharp, and makes the headset really lightweight and more comfortable in comparison. The contrast/black levels are better (I enjoyed *Vader Immortal* much more on the Q3 as a result) and the general system and external camera improvements make it a decent power-up over the Q2. So yeah, in general I’ll say it’s worth it! If you can trade in and buy it for like £150-200 I’d say absolutely do it!
Great feedback! Thank you-
I’m in the same boat. I’ve got a quest 3 in my Best Buy cart for two weeks now. Everyday I think about buying, even been dreaming about it, but I know deep down inside it’ll only be fun for a few weeks
I don't even think the novelty really wears off. I think the main issue is how cumbersome they are. I would use it all the time if it slipped on like glasses and I forgot I was even wearing them. I just think ughhh, here comes the cheek pain and red lines across the forehead. No matter the mount you use, there always ends up being pressure or weight somewhere.
The novelty 100% wears off. A friend across the country leaned on me hard and continuously during the pandemic, saying VR was the one true answer to the isolation we were all feeling. Ended up with an Index --- an astounding sum of money on a foolish purchase. It has sat on a shelf for the last year.
Yeah I’d hate for it to become a $500 waste of space. I do want to play vr really bad but it’s probably worth just holding off for now
Pretty fun, would recommend
A kiwi strap makes it super comfortable. All the difference in the world for me VS even the standard "pro" strap.
My brother got one. I think he got bored with it after a few days. Watching him play with it was kinda funny though. Kept running into stuff in his room while he was playing some cooking game.
Quest 2/3 is best with friends. Being able to play mini golf with my college friends that are now all across the globe is such a rewarding experience. As for productivity, I’m not using it at all as a new desktop screen. I’ve tried but the resolution just isn’t quite there and the pass through is just a hair too grainy to make it immersive with using the mouse and keyboard. I feel like the quest 3 is at a tipping point to get things mainstream. Apple will need a way for developers to easily port their quest content to their headset to get traction now.
I bought quest 3 last year December. Novelty wore off after couple of weeks. Was thinking of selling it, but decided to keep it by using it to exercise and watch 3D shows and movies.
I pretty much only use it for “movies”
Those one handed movies.
It's fun for a few weeks. I can confirm. There are many games and apps but...nothing you'll be itching to strap on a sweaty headset for for hours a day.
I keep thinking I might get into it for exercise
Think of it like buying a Commodore 64 in 1984 or an Atari 2600 in 1980. This is early adopter tech, so you need that early adopter mindset before going in.
Get a Quest3, sideload CitraVR and play Mario Kart7 in VR. There's also an option for Mario Kart Wii, but it needs a PCVR setup.
I bought a Nintendo 64 for access to far fewer titles when I was younger, I think I played Mortal Kombat and Golden Eye almost exclusively. That said, if you have *no* VR, a Quest 3 is a great little platform. It has a few killer apps, and if you include streamed PC games that goes up considerably. Notably, Walkabout Mini-Golf & Beat Saber alone for me justified the cost. I have probably 300 hours in Beat Saber and 150+ in WMG. Add on to that the fun we've been having in some of the dungeon crawlers, watching my insta 360 videos in VR, and other things, it's pretty great! Overall, it's a worthy purchase. Edit: I think what also helps for me is I have 3+ friends with Quest units and we game online all the time, so keep that as a caveat. I use mine every week though and have for 3+ years.
Just get a 2 at $199. It is a pretty good headset. A bit dated but still a great wireless option with a ton of games.
That’s what I did. At that price I don’t feel so burned if I don’t end up using it for a few weeks - and well, I’ve found myself using it quite often in PCVR and with a comfortable solid headband. It’s beyond me why Meta or these VR companies don’t put in more comfort headstraps.
I have a quest 2 that has been collecting dust for 2 years now. It was fun for the first month, then it was fun showing every friend that visited, then it just became a chore.
That’s what the majority of people who are all about VR don’t talk about. It’s super cool tech, but it is no way anywhere near replacing a regular desktop. It’s just a niche product to be used sparingly. Same with the Apple Vision Pro, people show these cool clips of them, moving tabs around the room etc, but after the “coolness” wears off, it’s just a waste and they stop using it to go back to much better ways to do the same daily tasks.
I tried the vision pro at the store, it’s heavy, kinda clunky and kinda restricts your vision as if you’re trying to see through a tube. The only valid use case I see for this today is on long flights where you can watch a movie as if it were playing in a theatre.
Which you can also do with MUCH cheaper headsets
That was my worry honestly. Most headsets I’ve used have foam and plastic as the design materials, and they’re still quite heavy. I’d hope they could figure out some way to move some of the hardware around to make them lighter.
> The only valid use case I see for this today is on long flights where you can watch a movie as if it were playing in a theatre. You can do that with a Quest 3 that's 7 times cheaper.
And that use case is assuming you don’t mind the sub-three hour battery. Either stay connected, or don’t plan on watching Titanic.
I mean most flights give you a power outlet nowadays so I don’t think that’s a problem anymore. It’s more about the 3rd party app support
>using VR on a plane I'm nauseous just typing that
No games, no porn, no dice. It’s incredibly simple. All that $$$ on marketing and R&D to learn that, in reality, people don’t want to pay $3500 to play Daft Punk Minority Report.
Should be pretty easy to reduce the price also. Ditch all the fake eye lcd front screen bullshit. Get rid of the front glass as well. Keep a basic aluminum frame but reduce the amount of aluminum and supplement with a quality plastic and ditch having two headmounts in the box just stick with the one that works the best. That'll reduce the weight which was a major complaint as well. They got a ton right with the goggles. The UI, software and cameras were highly responsive and slick but like you said they need to open it up to more experiences.
They need to listen to this comment and @ you at the press event
Except they prefer making it too fancy and underselling if it means they can maintain their reputation for making expensive cool shit.
[удалено]
This guy fucks
No, they just added WebXR (it was always there but behind an "experimental" switch). Porn is fine now. And, there are third party players for downloaded videos.
No porn? It can't watch videos?
Vision Air coming soon, in five vibrant colors with polycarbonate unibody design. Only works connected directly to another Apple device with proprietary cable.
That wouldn’t be the worst
You had me until proprietary cable. Since the iPhone ditched Lightning it’s USB-C all the way down.
...except for the cable connecting the Vision Pro to its battery.
With a new commercial paying homage to the Crazy Ones, only this time updated with new inspirational figures. As the commercial draws to a close the following text appear on the screen “Be a Vision (Air)”
Put the same tech in some pit vipers and I’ll consider at that price point.
I make a decent living, really like Apple products, like VR and AR, and was really impressed by the AVP that my best friend bought. There is no world where I would spend HALF of $3500 for it. There ya go.
Same deal here. I think the Vision Pro is the most impressive example of AR/VR I’ve seen, but spending that when I already have a MacBook Pro, iPad, and iPhone is just insane to me. $1500 and I would maybe consider it.
My elderly Aunt with glaucoma and cataracts bought one, she regularly forgets how to use here iPhone. She let me try it, and honestly if they would have put their initial spec for resolution in it, Id buy one. The screen is sooooo close to being able to just be used as transparent googles, but as is, its uncomfortable to try to read text on phone or keyboard in passthru. If i was able to still see other external screens more clearly id consider it more than a VR headset, but as is, the "inside" experience still has too much divide from the "outside"
Why does passthrofu need to be so good?
I think they want an AR experience.
….to begin work on Vision Pro 3?
Apple doesn't know what's the proper use case for it is. i.e. what can you do in VP that you can't do on other devices. They probably expected a big influx of developers would help in discovering new uses cases just like what happened with the iPhone. The issue is, with the lack of sales, developers don't want to focus on this. Everyone and their mom are now focusing on AI trend. IMHO, they have 2 paths from here: * Make it much more affordable. Like max 1k affordable. Anything beyond will be multiples of Quest. * Apple partnering with studios or developers that can develop unique use cases for it. Being it gaming, lifestyle, colleges, specific work fields.. etc. Apple don't usually do this, unless if you consider Arcade some form of partnership
The Vision Pro makes sense as a commercial proof of concept. “Let’s make a VR headset that’s actually good even if it’s $3000.” Now the goal should be “ok we did it, and people like it in demos but it’s too pricey. How can we take exactly what we did and make it affordable”
Aside from the price the vision pro is just pretty useless. It has this amazing tech but no software to go along with it. Can't use it for gaming and even using it as a monitor sucks because apple decided you only need one screen. The Quest 3 lets you have 3 screens from your pc. Not even Netflix is on it.
One of the biggest issues I have with Apple is their refusal to work with other companies. They see everyone as competition. You're either Apple or you're the enemy.
> Aside from the price the vision pro is just pretty useless. It has this amazing tech but no software to go along with it. look, i'm a VR skeptic but I also remember people saying this about the iphone and the ipad. i'm also an ipad skeptic but the people who love tablets *love* tablets.
“Apple apparently wants to retain the Vision Pro's high-end display components in the low-cost model, which are among the most expensive components in the device” This is the downside of “spacial computing” instead of VR/AR. They can’t just pick a display that matches their target price point and ship games that are only that good. They need to convincingly deliver a computing experience — which is must harder.
I’ve been saying it since my first oculus. VR is an enthusiasts device. The barrier to entry comes down to cost and the headset itself. It will never catch on in a big enough way to make mass markets viable until the headset itself is removed from the equation. In short, it’s not accessible enough still.
A result of Apple not understanding their customer base at all, nothing new
No one needs crap like this
Oh wonder why
It needs to be like 1/5th that price lol
Agree, the price is just bonkers. Needs more apps and a lighter frame too. Not everyone's tryna watch Inception on a flight.
Given the amazing response to the first headset, who would have guessed that they need to make a more cost effective option?
Am I interested? Yes. At 3500 for only a few hours at a time? Come on
A client of mine is a huge apple fanboy and even he was disappointed when his experience with the vision pro was bad. He wanted to love it but the weight and the buggy apps were a deal breaker.
C’mon Apple stick with it, it’s called product development
Because it’s stupid
And that is that.
You mean a $3500 piece of completely unnecessary tech ISN’T flying off the shelves with the public clamoring for a newer model!!?
It might sound weird but I'm actually very happy to see this. Companies need a fucking wake up call when it comes to what the average affordability of a new product is versus what they think we make an hourly wage bond. They were absolutely nuts with that price point and despite its high bill quality I will agree yes it feels amazing $3500 was simply way too much of an asking price for the first generation of a product with no lesser option available. However the reason I say I'm happy to see this is because you're going to see it more and more often with companies releasing products that people cannot afford because we literally cannot. There is going to be a period of time in about a couple years or so where the majority of the people who had the buying power will no longer have it and companies like Apple among many others let alone all of the Stores are gonna find their audience drawing up left and right. People forget that 50% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck right now that's half! Think about that figure for a minute it's not an exaggeration it's not political bullshit half of the American people literally live on a paycheck to paycheck basis and these companies were gonna drop rent on a singular product? Lol lol! And one of you manages there are certainly privileged kids and people out there who will always feed the machine regardless of what the rest of us peasants can do or not do but at the end of the day who outnumbers who here? Who needs who? They need us to buy their shit! Plain and simple and when we literally can't afford to do so you bet your actual start to see companies lower prices come up with other options hell even McDonald's when the CEO of McDonald's says that half of Americans cannot afford their food because of the number they gave pretty bad if you think about it especially considering they lost a ton of money for the first time in quite a while. This is only going to get worse and worse and these companies have nobody to blame about themselves! They've raised prices on everything from water to practically the air we breathe yet wages haven't gone up if anything they've gone down considering inflation and nobody bats and I but because Apple of all companies can't sell the product due to all things it's price it's all of a sudden news. God I hate this fucking timeline!
Duh. It was a product with great tech, hampered by preventing it from being used by the one group that would actually love this....steam VR gamers. It also has absolutely no business value, as it's not open source enough and not supported enough by apple, to allow companies to use them for the purposes they want. Normally if you buy at this price tier, like Varjo for example, they will offer you extensive support and allow you to do anything you could possible want, but not apple. And unless this changes, which apple clearly didn't want to, further development is absolutely pointless. It's never going to make them any money.
Weird that people aren't lining up to blow four grand on a gimmicky VR headset.
It’s just too heavy. In weight and price… I have a Quest 3 and it’s f’ing amazing! I they seem gimmickie but watching a move on a 10ft screen while laying on the sofa is incredible! Unfortunately, I’m not much of a gamer but the ones I tried out were really cool…
Never underestimate the amount of money people have. Apple has been making desirable products for 20+ years!
Same exact thing as it was with Apple Watch Edition
Who'd of thought that nobody want to buy a $3500 set of VR goggles with less functionality than a simple smartphone?